[SUGGESTION] Werewolf Form Should Not Benefit from Class Passive and Mastery Skills
twing1_
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TL;DR:
PROBLEM
With the recent and much needed update to the Werewolf Skill line, Werewolf viability in all kinds of game content has been increased. The Werewolf Berserker morph finally gives them respectable DPS parses and PvP burst, while the Pack Leader Morph finally gives them a supportive role as a tank and legitimate PvP survivability without the need for a cheese build. IMO, the Werewolf skill line is finally in a good spot.
That being said, Werewolves are overperforming in both PvE and PvP scenarios. The highest DPS parse I've seen from a Werewolf was 186k on the trial dummy, and in Battle Grounds, and Imperial City especially, solo Werewolves are running rampant that are both very nearly unkillable and also dealing tremendous amounts of damage to opposing players. Oftentimes the result of a group of 3-4 humanoid players vs. one Werewolf is the Werewolf coming out on top. When two or more optimized Werewolves run together, it is borderline game breaking.
One thing I've noticed about these particular Werewolf players is that they almost always choose the defensive Werewolf morph, Pack Leader, and their damage is almost always propped up by Class Passive or Mastery Skills. Sorcerer at the moment is the largest offender, where Static Reverberation sometimes stacks 25k+ damage in death recaps. Couple this with their reverse-execute passive that increases damage done per 10% enemy health and the flat 5% physical damage done passive and even the tankiest Werewolf build can deal considerable amounts of damage solely on account of this synergy.
It is important to note that Sorcerer Class Passives are not the only offender in this regard, but I have chosen to use them as an example because they are perhaps the largest offender. The synergies between other Class Passive Skills and Werewolf form are also problematic, such as Warden's Minor Toughness on healing, Nightblade's Eye for Exploitation Class Mastery, Dragonknight's defensive and Landslide passives, etc. Though the initial Sorcerer example I gave utilized pure Class Mastery Skills, subclassing a few of these select skill lines could also result in an overperforming build on Werewolf that exhibits both staggering amounts of defense and offense.
The fact of the matter is that these Class Passive and Mastery skills were balanced around their respective classes, and not Werewolf form. As such, some of the benefits they provide create interactions with Werewolf form, which already provides its own very strong benefits that were also balanced independently from the class system, in ways that are overperforming in PvP scenarios and exceed the typical power allotment for a singular build.
SOLUTION
The easiest and cleanest way to resolve this issue, in my opinion, is to disable all Class Passive and Mastery Skills while in Werewolf form. This would keep the Werewolf skill line pure (after the rework it is in a really good spot) while at the same time removing the problematic synergies between the Werewolf Skill line and the Class Passive Skills that enable these overperforming Werewolf builds.
This change would require Werewolf players to make a legitimate decision between choosing their unkillable tankiness or their powerful offensive pressure, and bring them more in line with other playstyles. No longer would they be able to spec their Werewolf Skills to build formidable survivability and prop their damage up with Class Passive and Mastery Skills, or vice versa.
If this change were implemented, Werewolves would still be extremely viable in all kinds of content, as the revamped Werewolf Skill line alone opens up pathways to very strong offensive builds and also highly survivable tank builds. Removing its interaction with Class Passive and Mastery Skills would not remove either of these paths, but work ensure that Werewolves would have to be specced for one or the other of extreme survival or brutal damage, but not both at the same time.
Edited by twing1_ on 24 July 2026 06:07 Currently, synergies exist between Werewolf form and certain Class Passive and Mastery Skills that distribute too much power, both offensive and defensive, into a single build. In order to resolve this, Class Passive and Mastery Skills should be disabled while in Werewolf form in order to restrict a Werewolf's ability to build ultimate survivability through the Werewolf Skill line while propping up its damage with Class Passive and Mastery Skills, or vice versa.
PROBLEM
With the recent and much needed update to the Werewolf Skill line, Werewolf viability in all kinds of game content has been increased. The Werewolf Berserker morph finally gives them respectable DPS parses and PvP burst, while the Pack Leader Morph finally gives them a supportive role as a tank and legitimate PvP survivability without the need for a cheese build. IMO, the Werewolf skill line is finally in a good spot.
That being said, Werewolves are overperforming in both PvE and PvP scenarios. The highest DPS parse I've seen from a Werewolf was 186k on the trial dummy, and in Battle Grounds, and Imperial City especially, solo Werewolves are running rampant that are both very nearly unkillable and also dealing tremendous amounts of damage to opposing players. Oftentimes the result of a group of 3-4 humanoid players vs. one Werewolf is the Werewolf coming out on top. When two or more optimized Werewolves run together, it is borderline game breaking.
One thing I've noticed about these particular Werewolf players is that they almost always choose the defensive Werewolf morph, Pack Leader, and their damage is almost always propped up by Class Passive or Mastery Skills. Sorcerer at the moment is the largest offender, where Static Reverberation sometimes stacks 25k+ damage in death recaps. Couple this with their reverse-execute passive that increases damage done per 10% enemy health and the flat 5% physical damage done passive and even the tankiest Werewolf build can deal considerable amounts of damage solely on account of this synergy.
It is important to note that Sorcerer Class Passives are not the only offender in this regard, but I have chosen to use them as an example because they are perhaps the largest offender. The synergies between other Class Passive Skills and Werewolf form are also problematic, such as Warden's Minor Toughness on healing, Nightblade's Eye for Exploitation Class Mastery, Dragonknight's defensive and Landslide passives, etc. Though the initial Sorcerer example I gave utilized pure Class Mastery Skills, subclassing a few of these select skill lines could also result in an overperforming build on Werewolf that exhibits both staggering amounts of defense and offense.
The fact of the matter is that these Class Passive and Mastery skills were balanced around their respective classes, and not Werewolf form. As such, some of the benefits they provide create interactions with Werewolf form, which already provides its own very strong benefits that were also balanced independently from the class system, in ways that are overperforming in PvP scenarios and exceed the typical power allotment for a singular build.
SOLUTION
The easiest and cleanest way to resolve this issue, in my opinion, is to disable all Class Passive and Mastery Skills while in Werewolf form. This would keep the Werewolf skill line pure (after the rework it is in a really good spot) while at the same time removing the problematic synergies between the Werewolf Skill line and the Class Passive Skills that enable these overperforming Werewolf builds.
This change would require Werewolf players to make a legitimate decision between choosing their unkillable tankiness or their powerful offensive pressure, and bring them more in line with other playstyles. No longer would they be able to spec their Werewolf Skills to build formidable survivability and prop their damage up with Class Passive and Mastery Skills, or vice versa.
If this change were implemented, Werewolves would still be extremely viable in all kinds of content, as the revamped Werewolf Skill line alone opens up pathways to very strong offensive builds and also highly survivable tank builds. Removing its interaction with Class Passive and Mastery Skills would not remove either of these paths, but work ensure that Werewolves would have to be specced for one or the other of extreme survival or brutal damage, but not both at the same time.
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duagloth✭✭✭✭✭Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.Edited by duagloth on 22 July 2026 20:152 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.4 -
Panderbander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.
Werewolf benefits from *some* very limited class passives, next to no weapon passives, and no guild passives. The class masteries have actually enabled werewolves to feel unique between the classes so you actually feel like your class when you play as one for the first time since launch. I'd argue more class passives on classes other than sorc should be adjusted to work on werewolf rather than take away the breath of fresh air that is extra customization because someone died in pvp or was outparsed by a werewolf when playing a non-reworked class in pve. (Btw, I'm fairly certain NECRO has the highest parses in pve right now so take that as you will)
Wait your turn, we've waited literal years. Once the reworks are done I'm sure werewolf will be behind once again.Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"5 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭Panderbander wrote: »Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.
Werewolf benefits from *some* very limited class passives, next to no weapon passives, and no guild passives. The class masteries have actually enabled werewolves to feel unique between the classes so you actually feel like your class when you play as one for the first time since launch. I'd argue more class passives on classes other than sorc should be adjusted to work on werewolf rather than take away the breath of fresh air that is extra customization because someone died in pvp or was outparsed by a werewolf when playing a non-reworked class in pve. (Btw, I'm fairly certain NECRO has the highest parses in pve right now so take that as you will)
Wait your turn, we've waited literal years. Once the reworks are done I'm sure werewolf will be behind once again.
I think you are the first voice I've heard claiming that the Werewolf rework hasn't gone far enough and that Werewolves should be buffed even further than their current state by allowing them to synergize with even more non-Werewolf skills.
Werewolves are extremely busted in PvP right now, in 1v1 encounters it is almost impossible for a Werewolf to be killed outside of a few niche scenarios, typically involving a DK with corrosive armor and flame lashes. An argument could be made for Sorcs as well. The best a competent humanoid player of the other classes can hope for against a competent Werewolf player in a 1v1 scenario is a stalemate. Werewolves have the sustain advantage, tankiness advantage, and largely due to their synergies with Class Passives and Masteries, can still put out an insane amount of damage.
What are the other classes supposed to do until they get reworked? Is your opinion really that game balance should be thrown out the window for the next several years while they get reworked and everyone should just play a DK or a Werewolf in the meantime?
As a counter example to your point that all the other classes will catch up as soon as they are reworked: Vampire was already reworked and they are nowhere near the meta.3 -
duagloth✭✭✭✭✭We all know how yoyr adjustment will go down, it will affect pvp and pve. Until the devs can learn too balance them separately im against your idea.1
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twing1_✭✭✭✭✭We all know how yoyr adjustment will go down, it will affect pvp and pve. Until the devs can learn too balance them separately im against your idea.
Honestly Werewolves are parsing 186k DPS on the trial dummy this patch, even if this change were to be implemented they would still be doing just fine in the PvE standings.2 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Panderbander wrote: »Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.
Werewolf benefits from *some* very limited class passives, next to no weapon passives, and no guild passives. The class masteries have actually enabled werewolves to feel unique between the classes so you actually feel like your class when you play as one for the first time since launch. I'd argue more class passives on classes other than sorc should be adjusted to work on werewolf rather than take away the breath of fresh air that is extra customization because someone died in pvp or was outparsed by a werewolf when playing a non-reworked class in pve. (Btw, I'm fairly certain NECRO has the highest parses in pve right now so take that as you will)
Wait your turn, we've waited literal years. Once the reworks are done I'm sure werewolf will be behind once again.
I think you are the first voice I've heard claiming that the Werewolf rework hasn't gone far enough and that Werewolves should be buffed even further than their current state by allowing them to synergize with even more non-Werewolf skills.
Werewolves are extremely busted in PvP right now, in 1v1 encounters it is almost impossible for a Werewolf to be killed outside of a few niche scenarios, typically involving a DK with corrosive armor and flame lashes. An argument could be made for Sorcs as well. The best a competent humanoid player of the other classes can hope for against a competent Werewolf player in a 1v1 scenario is a stalemate. Werewolves have the sustain advantage, tankiness advantage, and largely due to their synergies with Class Passives and Masteries, can still put out an insane amount of damage.
What are the other classes supposed to do until they get reworked? Is your opinion really that game balance should be thrown out the window for the next several years while they get reworked and everyone should just play a DK or a Werewolf in the meantime?
As a counter example to your point that all the other classes will catch up as soon as they are reworked: Vampire was already reworked and they are nowhere near the meta.
Id echo the same thing, make more class masteries usable while wolf form. Would at least give un-reworked classes something they could use against sorcs and dks.
Most of the time against tanker players with good self healing my wolf can't crack them as wolf lacks the burst ceiling to do so. The thing to remember is wolf has nooooo shields or cross healing so the worst time you are going to have is when you are fighting a wolf one on one. But the second you start scaling the numbers on both sides of the fight wolves start falling behind. Wolves can do one thing, brawl, so they have to be the best at it otherwise why would anyone pick to play one?Caius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭Panderbander wrote: »Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.
Werewolf benefits from *some* very limited class passives, next to no weapon passives, and no guild passives. The class masteries have actually enabled werewolves to feel unique between the classes so you actually feel like your class when you play as one for the first time since launch. I'd argue more class passives on classes other than sorc should be adjusted to work on werewolf rather than take away the breath of fresh air that is extra customization because someone died in pvp or was outparsed by a werewolf when playing a non-reworked class in pve. (Btw, I'm fairly certain NECRO has the highest parses in pve right now so take that as you will)
Wait your turn, we've waited literal years. Once the reworks are done I'm sure werewolf will be behind once again.
I think you are the first voice I've heard claiming that the Werewolf rework hasn't gone far enough and that Werewolves should be buffed even further than their current state by allowing them to synergize with even more non-Werewolf skills.
Werewolves are extremely busted in PvP right now, in 1v1 encounters it is almost impossible for a Werewolf to be killed outside of a few niche scenarios, typically involving a DK with corrosive armor and flame lashes. An argument could be made for Sorcs as well. The best a competent humanoid player of the other classes can hope for against a competent Werewolf player in a 1v1 scenario is a stalemate. Werewolves have the sustain advantage, tankiness advantage, and largely due to their synergies with Class Passives and Masteries, can still put out an insane amount of damage.
What are the other classes supposed to do until they get reworked? Is your opinion really that game balance should be thrown out the window for the next several years while they get reworked and everyone should just play a DK or a Werewolf in the meantime?
As a counter example to your point that all the other classes will catch up as soon as they are reworked: Vampire was already reworked and they are nowhere near the meta.
Id echo the same thing, make more class masteries usable while wolf form. Would at least give un-reworked classes something they could use against sorcs and dks.
Most of the time against tanker players with good self healing my wolf can't crack them as wolf lacks the burst ceiling to do so. The thing to remember is wolf has nooooo shields or cross healing so the worst time you are going to have is when you are fighting a wolf one on one. But the second you start scaling the numbers on both sides of the fight wolves start falling behind. Wolves can do one thing, brawl, so they have to be the best at it otherwise why would anyone pick to play one?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Werewolves have no crosshealing"?
I'm able to be healed by others when I am in wolf form, so I don't feel handicapped as a wolf during group play. In fact, wolves with a dedicated healer are even stronger than a solo wolf.
RE: your point about not being able to kill the tankiest enemies: no class on any build can kill the tankiest enemies in a 1v1, nor should they be able to. The drawback of that tanky build of course being that it hits like a wet noodle.
With wolves though, that's currently not the case. They are able to be specced into extreme tankiness and also deal a respectable amount of damage at the same time.
This is what is upsetting the game balance, and the reason why Werewolves are currently overperforming.Edited by twing1_ on 23 July 2026 01:182 -
Panderbander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Panderbander wrote: »Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.
Werewolf benefits from *some* very limited class passives, next to no weapon passives, and no guild passives. The class masteries have actually enabled werewolves to feel unique between the classes so you actually feel like your class when you play as one for the first time since launch. I'd argue more class passives on classes other than sorc should be adjusted to work on werewolf rather than take away the breath of fresh air that is extra customization because someone died in pvp or was outparsed by a werewolf when playing a non-reworked class in pve. (Btw, I'm fairly certain NECRO has the highest parses in pve right now so take that as you will)
Wait your turn, we've waited literal years. Once the reworks are done I'm sure werewolf will be behind once again.
I think you are the first voice I've heard claiming that the Werewolf rework hasn't gone far enough and that Werewolves should be buffed even further than their current state by allowing them to synergize with even more non-Werewolf skills.
Werewolves are extremely busted in PvP right now, in 1v1 encounters it is almost impossible for a Werewolf to be killed outside of a few niche scenarios, typically involving a DK with corrosive armor and flame lashes. An argument could be made for Sorcs as well. The best a competent humanoid player of the other classes can hope for against a competent Werewolf player in a 1v1 scenario is a stalemate. Werewolves have the sustain advantage, tankiness advantage, and largely due to their synergies with Class Passives and Masteries, can still put out an insane amount of damage.
What are the other classes supposed to do until they get reworked? Is your opinion really that game balance should be thrown out the window for the next several years while they get reworked and everyone should just play a DK or a Werewolf in the meantime?
As a counter example to your point that all the other classes will catch up as soon as they are reworked: Vampire was already reworked and they are nowhere near the meta.
Id echo the same thing, make more class masteries usable while wolf form. Would at least give un-reworked classes something they could use against sorcs and dks.
Most of the time against tanker players with good self healing my wolf can't crack them as wolf lacks the burst ceiling to do so. The thing to remember is wolf has nooooo shields or cross healing so the worst time you are going to have is when you are fighting a wolf one on one. But the second you start scaling the numbers on both sides of the fight wolves start falling behind. Wolves can do one thing, brawl, so they have to be the best at it otherwise why would anyone pick to play one?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Werewolves have no crosshealing"?
I'm able to be healed by others when I am in wolf form, so I don't feel handicapped as a wolf during group play. In fact, wolves with a dedicated healer are even stronger than a solo wolf.
RE: your point about not being able to kill the tankiest enemies: no class on any build can kill the tankiest enemies in a 1v1, nor should they be able to. The drawback of that tanky build of course being that it hits like a wet noodle.
With wolves though, that's currently not the case. They are able to be specced into extreme tankiness and also deal a respectable amount of damage at the same time.
This is what is upsetting the game balance, and the reason why Werewolves are currently overperforming.
Werewolves can not heal each other and are limited in the buffs and effects they can provide one another. The power increases of adding werewolves to a group is linear whereas human builds, with their greater variety of skills, cross healing, and effects, can increase the power of a group exponentially, rapidly outpacing what werewolves are able to do when grouped up.Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭Panderbander wrote: »Panderbander wrote: »Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.
Werewolf benefits from *some* very limited class passives, next to no weapon passives, and no guild passives. The class masteries have actually enabled werewolves to feel unique between the classes so you actually feel like your class when you play as one for the first time since launch. I'd argue more class passives on classes other than sorc should be adjusted to work on werewolf rather than take away the breath of fresh air that is extra customization because someone died in pvp or was outparsed by a werewolf when playing a non-reworked class in pve. (Btw, I'm fairly certain NECRO has the highest parses in pve right now so take that as you will)
Wait your turn, we've waited literal years. Once the reworks are done I'm sure werewolf will be behind once again.
I think you are the first voice I've heard claiming that the Werewolf rework hasn't gone far enough and that Werewolves should be buffed even further than their current state by allowing them to synergize with even more non-Werewolf skills.
Werewolves are extremely busted in PvP right now, in 1v1 encounters it is almost impossible for a Werewolf to be killed outside of a few niche scenarios, typically involving a DK with corrosive armor and flame lashes. An argument could be made for Sorcs as well. The best a competent humanoid player of the other classes can hope for against a competent Werewolf player in a 1v1 scenario is a stalemate. Werewolves have the sustain advantage, tankiness advantage, and largely due to their synergies with Class Passives and Masteries, can still put out an insane amount of damage.
What are the other classes supposed to do until they get reworked? Is your opinion really that game balance should be thrown out the window for the next several years while they get reworked and everyone should just play a DK or a Werewolf in the meantime?
As a counter example to your point that all the other classes will catch up as soon as they are reworked: Vampire was already reworked and they are nowhere near the meta.
Id echo the same thing, make more class masteries usable while wolf form. Would at least give un-reworked classes something they could use against sorcs and dks.
Most of the time against tanker players with good self healing my wolf can't crack them as wolf lacks the burst ceiling to do so. The thing to remember is wolf has nooooo shields or cross healing so the worst time you are going to have is when you are fighting a wolf one on one. But the second you start scaling the numbers on both sides of the fight wolves start falling behind. Wolves can do one thing, brawl, so they have to be the best at it otherwise why would anyone pick to play one?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Werewolves have no crosshealing"?
I'm able to be healed by others when I am in wolf form, so I don't feel handicapped as a wolf during group play. In fact, wolves with a dedicated healer are even stronger than a solo wolf.
RE: your point about not being able to kill the tankiest enemies: no class on any build can kill the tankiest enemies in a 1v1, nor should they be able to. The drawback of that tanky build of course being that it hits like a wet noodle.
With wolves though, that's currently not the case. They are able to be specced into extreme tankiness and also deal a respectable amount of damage at the same time.
This is what is upsetting the game balance, and the reason why Werewolves are currently overperforming.
Werewolves can not heal each other and are limited in the buffs and effects they can provide one another. The power increases of adding werewolves to a group is linear whereas human builds, with their greater variety of skills, cross healing, and effects, can increase the power of a group exponentially, rapidly outpacing what werewolves are able to do when grouped up.
That's good and well and all, but that is assuming that the Werewolves are grouped up together only with other werewolves.
Werewolves in a group of humanoids can take advantage of all of the cross healing a humanoid can, and this exacerbates the problem even further. True, every wolf added to the group means one less humanoid sending cross heals, but lets be real. Not every group member sends cross heals anyway, humanoid or other. All it takes is one or two dedicated healers in a 12 man group and the wolves literally become unkillable.
Additionally, adding Werewolves to a group isn't strictly linear, as you suggest. With the vast number of diverse item sets currently in game, it is entirely possible that Werewolves offer contributions toward their group through the pieces of equipment they wear.Edited by twing1_ on 23 July 2026 07:303 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Panderbander wrote: »Doesn't vampire benefit from the class masteries as well? Werewolf isnt a class,its a world skill line. They have literally no access too other skills while in form.
Vampire also has access to class passives/masteries as well, but they are a different case. A Vampire player does not undergo a transformation, and there is no restriction on using Vampire skills in conjunction with other sourced skills. Additionally, Vampires are not problematic from a game balance point of view.
Werewolves on the other hand are extremely overtuned right now, especially in PvP. You claim that they have no access to other skills while in wolf form, but this is false. They have no access to other active skills but they still benefit from class passives and masteries. I'm advocating for a complete separation between human form and wolf form, where even Class Passive and Mastery Skills will not carry over into the wolf form.
This change would bring Werewolf form closer in balance with other playstyles.
Werewolf benefits from *some* very limited class passives, next to no weapon passives, and no guild passives. The class masteries have actually enabled werewolves to feel unique between the classes so you actually feel like your class when you play as one for the first time since launch. I'd argue more class passives on classes other than sorc should be adjusted to work on werewolf rather than take away the breath of fresh air that is extra customization because someone died in pvp or was outparsed by a werewolf when playing a non-reworked class in pve. (Btw, I'm fairly certain NECRO has the highest parses in pve right now so take that as you will)
Wait your turn, we've waited literal years. Once the reworks are done I'm sure werewolf will be behind once again.
The main issue with class mastery passives is that they are balanced(or well not) around rewarding the usage of class skill lines, and many masteries only work off of class skill lines.
Werewolf is balanced around not having access to a lot of other things, hence why they get so many buffs in their kit. It's the combination of certain masteries that are not tied to class skill usage and Werewolf being generally strong that creates the issue.1 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭An easy fix to WW would be to further reduce the heal from Rip and Tear while affected by Battle Spirit. Wouldn't affect PvE at all, and would cut down on the raw healing WW has.
I'm sorry, there's not a single class out there that should have a 10k+ tooltip heal attached to your damage spammable.4 -
Udrath✭✭✭✭✭Good post and everything said is right on. I said when they released they should’ve disabled mastery for WW form. Because it is the easier fix than nerfing individual mastery due to one playstyle. The blood magic mastery is very strong though too, that heal and sustain should come from using sorcerer abilities only, instead of any ability.
I don’t mean to deviate from the topic, but Gorethief is also a set that gives WW big burst and extra healing. The tooltips they get from Gorethief are higher than any build, and in general needs to be adjusted as well. The tooltips need to scale much lower.
3 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭TL;DR:Currently, synergies exist between Werewolf form and certain Class Passive and Mastery Skills that distribute too much power, both offensive and defensive, into a single build. In order to resolve this, Class Passive and Mastery Skills should be disabled while in Werewolf form in order to restrict a Werewolf's ability to build ultimate survivability through the Werewolf Skill line while propping up its damage with Class Passive and Mastery Skills, or vice versa.
PROBLEM
With the recent and much needed update to the Werewolf Skill line, Werewolf viability in all kinds of game content has been increased. The Werewolf Berserker morph finally gives them respectable DPS parses and PvP burst, while the Pack Leader Morph finally gives them a supportive role as a tank and legitimate PvP survivability without the need for a cheese build. IMO, the Werewolf skill line is finally in a good spot.
That being said, Werewolves are overperforming in both PvE and PvP scenarios. The highest DPS parse I've seen from a Werewolf was 186k on the trial dummy, and in Battle Grounds, and Imperial City especially, solo Werewolves are running rampant that are both very nearly unkillable and also dealing tremendous amounts of damage to opposing players. Oftentimes the result of a group of 3-4 humanoid players vs. one Werewolf is the Werewolf coming out on top. When two or more optimized Werewolves run together, it is borderline game breaking.
One thing I've noticed about these particular Werewolf players is that they almost always choose the defensive Werewolf morph, Pack Leader, and their damage is almost always propped up by Class Passive or Mastery Skills. Sorcerer at the moment is the largest offender, where Static Reverberation sometimes stacks 25k+ damage in death recaps. Couple this with their reverse-execute passive that increases damage done per 10% enemy health and the flat 5% physical damage done passive and even the tankiest Werewolf build can deal considerable amounts of damage solely on account of this synergy.
It is important to note that Sorcerer Class Passives are not the only offender in this regard, but I have chosen to use them as an example because they are perhaps the largest offender. The synergies between other Class Passive Skills and Werewolf form are also problematic, such as Warden's Minor Toughness on healing, Nightblade's Eye for Exploitation Class Mastery, Dragonknight's defensive and Landslide passives, etc. Though the initial Sorcerer example I gave utilized pure Class Mastery Skills, subclassing a few of these select skill lines could also result in an overperforming build on Werewolf that exhibits both staggering amounts of defense and offense.
SOLUTION
The easiest and cleanest way to resolve this issue, in my opinion, is to disable all Class Passive and Mastery Skills while in Werewolf form. This would keep the Werewolf skill line pure (after the rework it is in a really good spot) while at the same time removing the problematic synergies between the Werewolf Skill line and the Class Passive Skills that enable these overperforming Werewolf builds.
This change would require Werewolf players to make a legitimate decision between choosing their unkillable tankiness or their powerful offensive pressure, and bring them more in line with other playstyles. No longer would they be able to spec their Werewolf Skills to build formidable survivability and prop their damage up with Class Passive and Mastery Skills, or vice versa.
If this change were implemented, Werewolves would still be extremely viable in all kinds of content, as the revamped Werewolf Skill line alone opens up pathways to very strong offensive builds and also highly survivable tank builds. Removing its interaction with Class Passive and Mastery Skills would not remove either of these paths, but work ensure that Werewolves would have to be specced for one or the other of extreme survival or brutal damage, but not both at the same time.
This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....Edited by gammelscroll on 23 July 2026 19:432 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭Good post and everything said is right on. I said when they released they should’ve disabled mastery for WW form. Because it is the easier fix than nerfing individual mastery due to one playstyle. The blood magic mastery is very strong though too, that heal and sustain should come from using sorcerer abilities only, instead of any ability.
I don’t mean to deviate from the topic, but Gorethief is also a set that gives WW big burst and extra healing. The tooltips they get from Gorethief are higher than any build, and in general needs to be adjusted as well. The tooltips need to scale much lower.
Yes same too dk. With 25k whip hits , and gorethief need to be adjusted.
A DK can fossilize a werewolf into a 2-tap flame lash with either corrosive or 2h ult up and don't even need to be targeting it. Good luck 2-tapping anyone with half a brain cell as a werewolf.
And you want ww to be even weaker? LolEdited by gammelscroll on 23 July 2026 19:531 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.Edited by twing1_ on 23 July 2026 20:452 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
Yes the same can a DK. One DK in BG today was tanking 3 players while back paddling and jumping , just healing trough all with heart of flame and some other skill.
I just took screenshot og a long fight with a DK. Will you see them?
My highest hit was 3500 rip and tear, and DK hit for 16k. I couldnt scratch him.
And you want nerf ww even more with taking away class masteries?
I cant even play the build i want on ww, cause i have to run packleader for major protection to not get one shotted by DKs....
Ofc do I defend ww on this Forum, when you and other cry about werewolf everyday and defending broken DKs and godmode sorcs. I played ww since 2016.
And most of you guys who complain are the ones that wont adapt to the "meta" and change your build, or craft new gear etc.
So you run around in outdated builds and get rip to pieces by a werewolf.
Are DKs the only class you want to see in game? Nothing can stop them. Werewolf may have a chance if DK is bad.
Dk can stun most builds and 2 tap them with whip. Can you do that on ww? Do ww have burst window? NO!
DKs and sorcs have better healing, better sustain, better mobility, and better burst than a werewolf.
So before you making this kind of post, I suggest you to go play Werewolf in BG this week and see for yourself when you meet good DKs and sorcs. And there is alot of them in 4v4v4 this week.Edited by gammelscroll on 23 July 2026 21:462 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
Yes the same can a DK. One DK in BG today was tanking 3 players while back paddling and jumping , just healing trough all with heart of flame and some other skill.
I just took screenshot og a long fight with a DK. Will you see them?
My highest hit was 3500 rip and tear, and DK hit for 16k. I couldnt scratch him.
And you want nerf ww even more with taking away class masteries?
I cant even play the build i want on ww, cause i have to run packleader for major protection to not get one shotted by DKs....
Ofc do I defend ww on this Forum, when you and other cry about werewolf everyday and defending broken DKs and godmode sorcs. I played ww since 2016.
And most of you guys who complain are the ones that wont adapt to the "meta" and change your build, or craft new gear etc.
So you run around in outdated builds and get rip to pieces by a werewolf.
Are DKs the only class you want to see in game? Nothing can stop them. Werewolf may have a chance if DK is bad.
Dk can stun most builds and 2 tap them with whip. Can you do that on ww? Do ww have burst window? NO!
DKs and sorcs have better healing, better sustain, better mobility, and better burst than a werewolf.
So before you making this kind of post, I suggest you to go play Werewolf in BG this week and see for yourself when you meet good DKs and sorcs. And there is alot of them in 4v4v4 this week.
Everything you are saying can be condensed into "...but DK! ...but Sorc!"
This is a thread about Werewolf. I am once again asking that you stick to that topic, or spend your energy on the DK or Sorc threads.3 -
duagloth✭✭✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
You chose nightblade and templar, neither is in a good spot in pvp and nerfing ww ain't gonna help you. Wait for the other classes to be revamped, im sure youll be back with a different POV.1 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
Yes the same can a DK. One DK in BG today was tanking 3 players while back paddling and jumping , just healing trough all with heart of flame and some other skill.
I just took screenshot og a long fight with a DK. Will you see them?
My highest hit was 3500 rip and tear, and DK hit for 16k. I couldnt scratch him.
And you want nerf ww even more with taking away class masteries?
I cant even play the build i want on ww, cause i have to run packleader for major protection to not get one shotted by DKs....
Ofc do I defend ww on this Forum, when you and other cry about werewolf everyday and defending broken DKs and godmode sorcs. I played ww since 2016.
And most of you guys who complain are the ones that wont adapt to the "meta" and change your build, or craft new gear etc.
So you run around in outdated builds and get rip to pieces by a werewolf.
Are DKs the only class you want to see in game? Nothing can stop them. Werewolf may have a chance if DK is bad.
Dk can stun most builds and 2 tap them with whip. Can you do that on ww? Do ww have burst window? NO!
DKs and sorcs have better healing, better sustain, better mobility, and better burst than a werewolf.
So before you making this kind of post, I suggest you to go play Werewolf in BG this week and see for yourself when you meet good DKs and sorcs. And there is alot of them in 4v4v4 this week.
Everything you are saying can be condensed into "...but DK! ...but Sorc!"
This is a thread about Werewolf. I am once again asking that you stick to that topic, or spend your energy on the DK or Sorc threads.
No cause the focus should be om the most broken things in game. And right now thats DKs and godmode sorcs.
I think the focus should be on the things that are making the game much less enjoyable right now. The biggest issues are Dragonknights and the nearly god-mode Sorcerers.
People are quitting the game because of DKs, and many would come back if the other classes were reworked instead.
That's why I think it's the wrong priority to focus on Werewolf when there are much bigger issues causing players to leave. Or is that just not considered important?
I think you should try playing Werewolf yourself, and then we'll see if you still believe we should lose Class Mastery.0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
You chose nightblade and templar, neither is in a good spot in pvp and nerfing ww ain't gonna help you. Wait for the other classes to be revamped, im sure youll be back with a different POV.
I understand the class reworks are coming, and this post is independent of that.
Werewolves can stack 50k+ hp to become virtually unkillable and are still able to source incredible damage through abilities like Sorc's Static Reverberation, Warden's Wild Adaptation, NB's Eye for Exploitation, and other Class Mastery and Passive skills that were specifically designed and balanced around their respective classes, and not Werewolf form.
This interaction opens the door for some extremely overpowered builds that I truly believe were not accounted for or intended by the game devs.
The impending class reworks are completely independent of this issue, and not at all relevant to the current issue at hand.Edited by twing1_ on 23 July 2026 22:111 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
Yes the same can a DK. One DK in BG today was tanking 3 players while back paddling and jumping , just healing trough all with heart of flame and some other skill.
I just took screenshot og a long fight with a DK. Will you see them?
My highest hit was 3500 rip and tear, and DK hit for 16k. I couldnt scratch him.
And you want nerf ww even more with taking away class masteries?
I cant even play the build i want on ww, cause i have to run packleader for major protection to not get one shotted by DKs....
Ofc do I defend ww on this Forum, when you and other cry about werewolf everyday and defending broken DKs and godmode sorcs. I played ww since 2016.
And most of you guys who complain are the ones that wont adapt to the "meta" and change your build, or craft new gear etc.
So you run around in outdated builds and get rip to pieces by a werewolf.
Are DKs the only class you want to see in game? Nothing can stop them. Werewolf may have a chance if DK is bad.
Dk can stun most builds and 2 tap them with whip. Can you do that on ww? Do ww have burst window? NO!
DKs and sorcs have better healing, better sustain, better mobility, and better burst than a werewolf.
So before you making this kind of post, I suggest you to go play Werewolf in BG this week and see for yourself when you meet good DKs and sorcs. And there is alot of them in 4v4v4 this week.
Everything you are saying can be condensed into "...but DK! ...but Sorc!"
This is a thread about Werewolf. I am once again asking that you stick to that topic, or spend your energy on the DK or Sorc threads.
No cause the focus should be om the most broken things in game. And right now thats DKs and godmode sorcs.
I think the focus should be on the things that are making the game much less enjoyable right now. The biggest issues are Dragonknights and the nearly god-mode Sorcerers.
People are quitting the game because of DKs, and many would come back if the other classes were reworked instead.
That's why I think it's the wrong priority to focus on Werewolf when there are much bigger issues causing players to leave. Or is that just not considered important?
I think you should try playing Werewolf yourself, and then we'll see if you still believe we should lose Class Mastery.
Those topics are being discussed in other threads on the forums.
Are you acting as a moderator to try to make sure every thread discusses DKs and Sorcs?
It's okay for different forum posts to address different topics, not every post has to be about DK and Sorc. Werewolves are also a pain point that need addressing.
It is perfectly okay for you to contribute to the discussion here with anything of substance in regards to Werewolf, but please stop trying to change the subject with the hollow and derailing "...but DK! ...but Sorc!" argument.
I am actually extremely interested to hear a justification for why Werewolves should retain their access to Class Passive and Mastery skills from a power allotment perspective that does not use other overperforming classes as a point of comparison.
Someone earlier contributed that it adds Class flavor and diversity to Werewolf form, which is neat for sure, but IMO not a strong enough reason to sacrifice game balance for.Edited by twing1_ on 23 July 2026 22:351 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
Yes the same can a DK. One DK in BG today was tanking 3 players while back paddling and jumping , just healing trough all with heart of flame and some other skill.
I just took screenshot og a long fight with a DK. Will you see them?
My highest hit was 3500 rip and tear, and DK hit for 16k. I couldnt scratch him.
And you want nerf ww even more with taking away class masteries?
I cant even play the build i want on ww, cause i have to run packleader for major protection to not get one shotted by DKs....
Ofc do I defend ww on this Forum, when you and other cry about werewolf everyday and defending broken DKs and godmode sorcs. I played ww since 2016.
And most of you guys who complain are the ones that wont adapt to the "meta" and change your build, or craft new gear etc.
So you run around in outdated builds and get rip to pieces by a werewolf.
Are DKs the only class you want to see in game? Nothing can stop them. Werewolf may have a chance if DK is bad.
Dk can stun most builds and 2 tap them with whip. Can you do that on ww? Do ww have burst window? NO!
DKs and sorcs have better healing, better sustain, better mobility, and better burst than a werewolf.
So before you making this kind of post, I suggest you to go play Werewolf in BG this week and see for yourself when you meet good DKs and sorcs. And there is alot of them in 4v4v4 this week.
Everything you are saying can be condensed into "...but DK! ...but Sorc!"
This is a thread about Werewolf. I am once again asking that you stick to that topic, or spend your energy on the DK or Sorc threads.
No cause the focus should be om the most broken things in game. And right now thats DKs and godmode sorcs.
I think the focus should be on the things that are making the game much less enjoyable right now. The biggest issues are Dragonknights and the nearly god-mode Sorcerers.
People are quitting the game because of DKs, and many would come back if the other classes were reworked instead.
That's why I think it's the wrong priority to focus on Werewolf when there are much bigger issues causing players to leave. Or is that just not considered important?
I think you should try playing Werewolf yourself, and then we'll see if you still believe we should lose Class Mastery.
Those topics are being discussed in other threads on the forums.
Are you acting as a moderator to try to make sure every thread discusses DKs and Sorcs?
It's okay for different forum posts to address different topics, not every post has to be about DK and Sorc. Werewolves are also a pain point that need addressing.
It is perfectly okay for you to contribute to the discussion here with anything of substance in regards to Werewolf, but please stop trying to change the subject with the hollow and derailing "...but DK! ...but Sorc!" argument.
I am actually extremely interested to hear a justification for why Werewolves should retain their access to Class Passive and Mastery skills from a power allotment perspective that does not use other overperforming classes as a point of comparison.
Someone earlier contributed that it adds Class flavor and diversity to Werewolf form, which is neat for sure, but IMO not a strong enough reason to sacrifice game balance for.
Do you play Werewolf?0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »gammelscroll wrote: »This post again? Have you nothing better to do?
This is my first post about this subject, and to my knowledge, the first time this suggestion has been brought up on the forums. I apologize if there is another post out there that has proposed this same solution. I was unable to find it using the search function.gammelscroll wrote: »Buff everyone so we can be competive with DK. The only "class" that maybe can stale a fight vs a dk is ww, nerf them more and DK is the only viable class in game, and sorc is godmode.
Bet OP plays DK.
I have a character of every class, but if I had to choose a main class I would probably go with NB or Templar. My other active forum post right now is actually addressing what I see to be one of the largest issues with the DK class, Wildfire Embers, and specifically its interaction with purge effects. I don't know why you are making the assumption that for some reason I have a soft spot for DKs.
Looking at your derailing of this forum post and your recent post history, it seems that you are the one that is obsessed with DKs, as every comment you make on the forums steers the discussion toward DKs or Sorcs, regardless of their relevance to the conversation at hand.gammelscroll wrote: »Have you played Ww in PvP against a good DK or sorc? You wont even scratch them. Iam.not talking about BG, but CP PvP. Werewolf is in good spot, but will never beat a good dk or sorc.
Nerf them and everyone can just run DK right?
Eso of DKs. Iam.so tired of these "constructive" crying post about ww, while sorck and DK is running around godmode with no class to beat them....
Sorc and DK are both extremely powerful, but neither possess the defensive capabilities of a Werewolf. DK is definitely overtuned in 1v1 scenarios because of the fossilize -> onslaught -> whip combo, but even the best DK or Sorc can be dealt with if 3-4 players of other classes are grouped up onto them.
The strongest Werewolf builds can easily survive being grouped up on by 3-4 players of other classes and still come out on top. They are able to stack 50k+ of health to avoid being one shot and boost their passive healing, while at the same time being able to do respectable damage and keep offensive pressure on their opponents, largely due to their synergies with Class Passive and Mastery Skills.
Once again, the content of this post is in regards to the current overperforming state of Werewolves, and whether DKs or Sorcs are overperforming as well doesn't change that. I'm not saying that DKs or Sorcs are in a perfect spot, but I am saying this specific forum post isn't about that so lets try to stay on topic.
If you feel that the current state of DKs and Sorcs should be addressed, you should try creating a form post of your own pointed towards that issue, or contribute to one of the many existing forum posts focusing on those subjects.
Yes the same can a DK. One DK in BG today was tanking 3 players while back paddling and jumping , just healing trough all with heart of flame and some other skill.
I just took screenshot og a long fight with a DK. Will you see them?
My highest hit was 3500 rip and tear, and DK hit for 16k. I couldnt scratch him.
And you want nerf ww even more with taking away class masteries?
I cant even play the build i want on ww, cause i have to run packleader for major protection to not get one shotted by DKs....
Ofc do I defend ww on this Forum, when you and other cry about werewolf everyday and defending broken DKs and godmode sorcs. I played ww since 2016.
And most of you guys who complain are the ones that wont adapt to the "meta" and change your build, or craft new gear etc.
So you run around in outdated builds and get rip to pieces by a werewolf.
Are DKs the only class you want to see in game? Nothing can stop them. Werewolf may have a chance if DK is bad.
Dk can stun most builds and 2 tap them with whip. Can you do that on ww? Do ww have burst window? NO!
DKs and sorcs have better healing, better sustain, better mobility, and better burst than a werewolf.
So before you making this kind of post, I suggest you to go play Werewolf in BG this week and see for yourself when you meet good DKs and sorcs. And there is alot of them in 4v4v4 this week.
Everything you are saying can be condensed into "...but DK! ...but Sorc!"
This is a thread about Werewolf. I am once again asking that you stick to that topic, or spend your energy on the DK or Sorc threads.
No cause the focus should be om the most broken things in game. And right now thats DKs and godmode sorcs.
I think the focus should be on the things that are making the game much less enjoyable right now. The biggest issues are Dragonknights and the nearly god-mode Sorcerers.
People are quitting the game because of DKs, and many would come back if the other classes were reworked instead.
That's why I think it's the wrong priority to focus on Werewolf when there are much bigger issues causing players to leave. Or is that just not considered important?
I think you should try playing Werewolf yourself, and then we'll see if you still believe we should lose Class Mastery.
Those topics are being discussed in other threads on the forums.
Are you acting as a moderator to try to make sure every thread discusses DKs and Sorcs?
It's okay for different forum posts to address different topics, not every post has to be about DK and Sorc. Werewolves are also a pain point that need addressing.
It is perfectly okay for you to contribute to the discussion here with anything of substance in regards to Werewolf, but please stop trying to change the subject with the hollow and derailing "...but DK! ...but Sorc!" argument.
I am actually extremely interested to hear a justification for why Werewolves should retain their access to Class Passive and Mastery skills from a power allotment perspective that does not use other overperforming classes as a point of comparison.
Someone earlier contributed that it adds Class flavor and diversity to Werewolf form, which is neat for sure, but IMO not a strong enough reason to sacrifice game balance for.
Do you play Werewolf?
Yes, I play every class. I've tried DK, Sorc, and Warden Werewolf.
I hope this is going somewhere productive and not just "so you know how OP DK and Sorc are".Edited by twing1_ on 23 July 2026 23:231 -
Panderbander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Did some 30-40 BGs last night. Total Werwolf count I played against: less than 10. DKs and sorcs: lost count. The few werewolves were no threat whatsoever and we basically farmed them.
People have a tendency to play the most broken set up, AKA the meta. Werewolves aren't it. Quit crying because you died in PVP.Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"2 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭✭Panderbander wrote: »Did some 30-40 BGs last night. Total Werwolf count I played against: less than 10. DKs and sorcs: lost count. The few werewolves were no threat whatsoever and we basically farmed them.
People have a tendency to play the most broken set up, AKA the meta. Werewolves aren't it. Quit crying because you died in PVP.
BGs are in no way indicative of the meta, especially because Cyrodil/Imp city have champion enabled and BGs don't.
Either way, what you are describing hasn't been my experience in BGs. Almost every BG I play has at least one wolf.
Try running around imperial city, DKs and Werewolves together probably make up 80% of the player base.
Regardless, anecdotal evidence isn't factual, yours or mine. ZOS has the actual data, and I'm sure they are monitoring pick rate of all the classes. I'm sure they are already working on the anomolies, and in short time we will see whether or not Werewolf is overperforming by their metrics.Edited by twing1_ on 24 July 2026 05:550 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭Panderbander wrote: »Did some 30-40 BGs last night. Total Werwolf count I played against: less than 10. DKs and sorcs: lost count. The few werewolves were no threat whatsoever and we basically farmed them.
People have a tendency to play the most broken set up, AKA the meta. Werewolves aren't it. Quit crying because you died in PVP.
Bold is bait, I wonder if they will take action. Doesn't happen often these days.
But also a strange statement to make when you are complaining about DK and Sorc. All three of them are out of line right now, no clue why you and other WW defenders keep pretending it's only those two and not you.
Just because you and the other WW defenders keep repeating it and dropping subtle baid, doesn't mean reality will change. But it's okay, if the balance continues in a poor direction, then people will just...not play or all choose the same class, and you'll be able to have fun fighting WW to WW, DK, or Sorc.
Oh wait, that's what happening. Alternatively, they can join me and just fire siege.3 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭
✭WW is in it’s best place it’s ever been atm any more nerfs will probably kill it imo
[sad vampire noise]
Aussie lag is real!1 -
gammelscroll✭✭✭WW is in it’s best place it’s ever been atm any more nerfs will probably kill it imo
[sad vampire noise]
Yea. Those 16k HP cry babies with outdated builds and zero crit resist always get what they want in the end.
They havent nerfed DKs yet, so I dont believe they will touch werewolf now.
They just got a 3% dmg nerf in PvP with latest patch anyway0
