This Vengence "test" is a mess
evLRise
✭✭✭
We obviously didn't have any similar scenarios in the past to learn from—such as the no-proc campaign—to show how frustrating it is having to test a thousand interactions just to figure out what works and what doesn't.
I'm sure we all had fun realizing, three deaths into Vengeance, that despite sets supposedly "working," many of them actually don't.
For example, the Master Restoration Staff works because Vengeance Healing Springs is, apparently, still Healing Springs. On the other hand, Vengeance Weakness to Elements is obviously not Weakness to Elements, so it makes perfect sense that the Vateshran Destruction Staff doesn't function.
Vengeance Shadow is, of course, Shadow, so the Umbral Edge set for Nightblade works as expected when you cast a Shadow ability. At the same time, it also makes perfect sense that the Vengeance Siphoning skill line isn't actually Siphoning, so Soulcleaver doesn't work. Following the same easy-to-understand rule, we should already know that Gravelord is not Vengeance Gravelord, which is why Corpsebuster doesn't gain damage per Gravelord ability slotted.
Even more interesting is Powerful Assault, which does appear to work. My Weapon Damage increases from 5000 to 5300.
To demonstrate that increase:
5000 Weapon Damage:
- Cliff Racer: 4750 damage
- Resolving Vigor: 5000 healing/sec
5300 Weapon Damage:
- Cliff Racer: 4750 damage
- Resolving Vigor: 5000 healing/sec
This behaviour expands to all effects that provide an increase in Weapon / Spell Damage, such as running Balorgh for example.
The best part? I only had to waste around 1,400 Transmute Crystals and a few hours - a few more than this test deserves - to figure these things out
It only makes sense that communication is so effective that the community has to discover on its own that Weapon Damage is hardcoded at 5000, even though the character sheet happily updates the tooltip to show otherwise.
Edited by evLRise on 21 July 2026 04:02 I'm sure we all had fun realizing, three deaths into Vengeance, that despite sets supposedly "working," many of them actually don't.
For example, the Master Restoration Staff works because Vengeance Healing Springs is, apparently, still Healing Springs. On the other hand, Vengeance Weakness to Elements is obviously not Weakness to Elements, so it makes perfect sense that the Vateshran Destruction Staff doesn't function.
Vengeance Shadow is, of course, Shadow, so the Umbral Edge set for Nightblade works as expected when you cast a Shadow ability. At the same time, it also makes perfect sense that the Vengeance Siphoning skill line isn't actually Siphoning, so Soulcleaver doesn't work. Following the same easy-to-understand rule, we should already know that Gravelord is not Vengeance Gravelord, which is why Corpsebuster doesn't gain damage per Gravelord ability slotted.
Even more interesting is Powerful Assault, which does appear to work. My Weapon Damage increases from 5000 to 5300.
To demonstrate that increase:
5000 Weapon Damage:
- Cliff Racer: 4750 damage
- Resolving Vigor: 5000 healing/sec
5300 Weapon Damage:
- Cliff Racer: 4750 damage
- Resolving Vigor: 5000 healing/sec
This behaviour expands to all effects that provide an increase in Weapon / Spell Damage, such as running Balorgh for example.
The best part? I only had to waste around 1,400 Transmute Crystals and a few hours - a few more than this test deserves - to figure these things out
It only makes sense that communication is so effective that the community has to discover on its own that Weapon Damage is hardcoded at 5000, even though the character sheet happily updates the tooltip to show otherwise.
There's Dunmers and there's N'wahs
26
-
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Truly incredible. Thank you for your QA testing. o7@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2700+ CP ||| @ReactSlower - PC/EU - 1300+ CP ||| React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster3 -
Jaavaa✭✭✭✭✭
Everyone can read. The Problem with this is: „Some Sets“. Name this Sets, problem solved 🙈16 -
evLRise✭✭✭
Low effort excuse for a sub par experience that literally no one asked forThere's Dunmers and there's N'wahs19 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pretty sure the test was for performance more than combat balance. Performance improvements in Cyrodiil have been one of the primary requests from PvPers for years.PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner4 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The best part? I only had to waste around 1,400 Transmute Crystals and a few hours - a few more than this test deserves - to figure these things out
Don't you get the Transmute Crystals back when you deconstruct the gear? I'm loathe to reconstruct any gear that would take more than 25 TCs to reconstruct, because I hate the idea of not getting all of the TCs back. (I also don't like to improve the quality of the gear until I'm certain I want to use it, so I leave it at the default quality while testing it out-- although you didn't mention wasting improvement mats.)I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Completely agree, the first part of the test was just me trying to figure out what sets would actually work and battling bizarre inventory bugs.
The Vengeance inventory is the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen. I entered the campaign with 5/5 Orders Wrath on my front bar. An hour later it felt like something changed, so I checked to make sure everything was working and I had a yew lightning staff in my off hand and 4/5 Orders Wrath… what? The weird thing is that the lightning staff appeared as a normal 1h sword visually. So I don't actually know for sure when it switched.
Anyway, I tried to un-equip and re-equip my weapon, but doing so makes it vanish from your inventory. It may or may not reappear a few minutes later. I had to leave the campaign (and hard crashed to desktop doing so), re-equip my weapons, then re-enter the campaign. Needless to say... testing things was near impossible.
When I re-entered, everything appeared to be ok, but then once again 30 minutes later, my damage changed. I checked my inventory and this time I had a greatsword on my off hand and only 4/5 orders wrath.
There’s literally a bug where my character drops his weapon or something. How is a 2h weapon being equipped to my off hand anyway? How is this happening without any inputs from me and no addons being used.
Even once you find sets that work, it may not matter if you get this bug where the campaign decides to do whatever it wants with your inventory.
You'll find yourself chasing random ghost items in your inventory and having your gear forcefully unequipped before you can even test anything. I came in willing to test too, I didn't want to be someone who complained about the performance of the main campaign, but didn't show up to help ZOS get things figured out.
This is so badly executed on so many levels. I'm starting to think we don't have a working set list because not even ZOS knows what works. Do we even have an official feedback channel yet?
Anyway, the results of the test are already in... IT LAGS. This isn't worth further testing.
Here's screenshots of the bug I'm talking about. You can see that visually I am still dual wielding, but really one of my set pieces have been unequipped and a random 2h weapon is somehow on my off hand. The orders wrath axe in my other hand completely vanishes whenever this happens, so I have to leave campaign to fix it. I wonder how many others are having their sets forcefully removed.
PC NA and Xbox NA6 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »The best part? I only had to waste around 1,400 Transmute Crystals and a few hours - a few more than this test deserves - to figure these things out
Don't you get the Transmute Crystals back when you deconstruct the gear? I'm loathe to reconstruct any gear that would take more than 25 TCs to reconstruct, because I hate the idea of not getting all of the TCs back. (I also don't like to improve the quality of the gear until I'm certain I want to use it, so I leave it at the default quality while testing it out-- although you didn't mention wasting improvement mats.)
you always get 25 transmutes back when you deconstruct, regardless of the original construct price
for me, i absolutely dont care about the cost cause im overflowing with transmutes (i have max 3000 transmutes banked, around 30+ pc of gear i need to decon across several characters (750+ transmute worth), over 100x of the 25x transmute geodes (2500 transmutes worth), another 100 transmute geodes of varying sizes other than 25 (~200-250 transmutes worth))
i would absolutely sell transmutes geodes if i couldplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
aetherix8✭✭✭✭✭Thank you for testing this OP. This iteration is a mess indeed, but at the same time, it already provides some quite interesting results despite the low turnout.
It appears that item sets cannot be simply added to the Vengeance ruleset; they have a sizeable effect on performance, and, as your testing shows, they are incompatible with simplified abilities. If ZOS wants to add item sets to Vengeance, they will have to create simplified versions, just like they did with abilities.PC EU - V4hn1
If you care about the future of ESO PvP, then help the devs test their ideas on how to improve it.2 -
Fruity_Ninja✭✭✭✭It doesn’t even make sense, feels like a slapstick test
They should have curated some specific sets for people to use in there, just like the skills
Instead they tried to add every set in the ‘normal’ game and it’s broken it
There’s literally nobody playing it as well, all the usual faces from Cyro are farming Grannie’s new recipe 😅2 -
Taarente✭✭✭✭At this point I think ZOS should stop and clarify what this test is actually meant to establish.
Leave Gray Host and Blackreach alone. Either restore a clearly documented no-proc campaign, with an official list of which sets work, or keep Vengeance as the simplified mode with no set system.
Trying to mix Vengeance skills, partial set functionality, misleading stats and broken interactions is not producing a useful or coherent test.Edited by Taarente on 21 July 2026 06:277 -
Frayton✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Everyone can read. The Problem with this is: „Some Sets“. Name this Sets, problem solved 🙈
What if they never tell us because they don't know themselves? There are hundreds of sets in the game.0 -
Eldovar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wont waste transmutes on this and just play my regular sets I have on.
The test is too short too 'build' and the whole idea of Vengeance is that you don't have to build.
That said, I think the test already did what it needed to do: enabling 1/5 of a set cause massive lag spikes and half of the times my attacks and skills are not firing when it is crowded. They can either turn population down a ton (and then you have semi-GH), or disable sets again.
And now we are back were we started: performance is unfixable unless you either disable half the gameplay or slash population cap by75 percent.1 -
Ordinator199✭✭✭how are you wielding a double hander greatsword in your off-hand? Are you a hacker?0
-
Usureki✭✭✭✭
Everyone can read. The Problem with this is: „Some Sets“. Name this Sets, problem solved 🙈
What if they never tell us because they don't know themselves? There are hundreds of sets in the game.
That would imply a heavy level of incompetence. A developer team should have the deepest knowledge of their product, including and not limited to the features implemented in the past.
Considering the amount of content left untouched regardless of the bug reports, ticket feedbacks and forum threads complaining about their useless/broken/bugged state, I do fear that some parts of the game is just simply abandoned by ZOS to allow them on focusing on new content - which does of course has its merit as we do receive new content we all wish for, but it also makes me wonder why should I invest the effort of filing a bug ticket when it is gonna be outright ignored 90% of the time (my experience only, many other players I know reported quite the opposite, so idk, maybe I'm the only one necroing old content to be fixed lol)1 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Everyone can read. The Problem with this is: „Some Sets“. Name this Sets, problem solved 🙈
What if they never tell us because they don't know themselves? There are hundreds of sets in the game.
Ok. Then why enforce a game mode where you're like "lol some things don't work, but go do it anyway!"
Ravenwatch also didn't have a list of sets. So you know what the players ended up doing? They tested them themselves. They came up with a list of sets themselves. They maintained that list while ZOS was like "eh, you'll figure it out."
That's frustrating.
This is why this new Vengeance test should have been on PTS first, like every other Vengeance test. Every Vengeance test was tested twice: once on PTS to see if it worked and to fix glaring issues like "my character is permanently bugged," and then a second time on Live for the stress test part. But this one only got that second stress test. Why was it seemingly not important to test if this even functioned before jumping right into the stress test?
And to forestall anyone who can't read: Yes, the stress test can only be done on Live because the population is not there on PTS. That's why they need to do it Live. They do not need to test functionality Live, which is the point of the PTS test beforehand. A PTS test beforehand would have allowed players to come up with a list of sets that did not work and to see if there were issues (like the sets that 'reduce damage when Battle Spirit is active' not reducing damage since Battle Spirit is not active so they are extremely strong) before bringing it to live for the stress test.2 -
Usureki✭✭✭✭No offense but stress test can also be done via simulation. Having the paying customers as test subjects is a very cheap solution. There are so many other things they could do other than force participation. If I'd receive a letter from Queen Ayrenn stating that the Aldmeri Dominion requires my service in a new campaign and offers a reward for participation I'd join without hesitation. The fact that Grey Host just disappeared brings a half-baked lame test server vibe to the actual live servers. It is below the standard which I'd expect.6
-
Eldovar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tomofhyrule wrote: »
Everyone can read. The Problem with this is: „Some Sets“. Name this Sets, problem solved 🙈
What if they never tell us because they don't know themselves? There are hundreds of sets in the game.
Ok. Then why enforce a game mode where you're like "lol some things don't work, but go do it anyway!"
Ravenwatch also didn't have a list of sets. So you know what the players ended up doing? They tested them themselves. They came up with a list of sets themselves. They maintained that list while ZOS was like "eh, you'll figure it out."
That's frustrating.
This is why this new Vengeance test should have been on PTS first, like every other Vengeance test. Every Vengeance test was tested twice: once on PTS to see if it worked and to fix glaring issues like "my character is permanently bugged," and then a second time on Live for the stress test part. But this one only got that second stress test. Why was it seemingly not important to test if this even functioned before jumping right into the stress test?
And to forestall anyone who can't read: Yes, the stress test can only be done on Live because the population is not there on PTS. That's why they need to do it Live. They do not need to test functionality Live, which is the point of the PTS test beforehand. A PTS test beforehand would have allowed players to come up with a list of sets that did not work and to see if there were issues (like the sets that 'reduce damage when Battle Spirit is active' not reducing damage since Battle Spirit is not active so they are extremely strong) before bringing it to live for the stress test.
It would also have been preferable to know the thoughts behind the test.
What is the goal:
- Is it to make Vengeance feel more dynamic to enhance the gameplay possibilities
- Is it just to stress test the use of sets on the server load
- Is it to test if all sets and gameplay works as intended
- Is it to test if stuff is more balanced by limiting numbers and set properties
- Is it to raise of lower general population caps behind the scenes and see their effects on a daily basis
- ...
Communication goes a long way especially if the goodwill of the PvP community seems to be at an absolute low. What are you testing form what are the goals and why is this test important?
They also need direct communication about these things in game that must be dismissed one time. I saw so many confused people in zone chat yesterday that didn't have a clue what is going on. It's only a minority who is on the forums, reddit or reads marketing mails. Announcements and patch notes should be linked into the game just like most other games do it these days. Even console can open a browser window with 'Read more' info.Edited by Eldovar on 21 July 2026 10:234 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Pretty sure the test was for performance more than combat balance. Performance improvements in Cyrodiil have been one of the primary requests from PvPers for years.
If they cannot achieve performance improvements without dismantling the core of Cyrodiil or the game itself, maybe it’s time to call it quits and just let it be.
They are trying to improve the performance for a decade now and they are incapable of achieving that. Vengeance is a waste of resources during a time where they are sparse and should be used way more efficiently.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
SolarRune✭✭✭✭When vengeance was launched earlier this year there was the suggestion at that point that trying to work sets into vengeance was something they were doing.
And it can't be denied one of the most common complaints about vengeance is that it's cookie cutter builds and we need to have sets for build diversity otherwise parts of the community won't engage.
It feels like ZoS can't win on this one.2 -
Eldovar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Pretty sure the test was for performance more than combat balance. Performance improvements in Cyrodiil have been one of the primary requests from PvPers for years.
If they cannot achieve performance improvements without dismantling the core of Cyrodiil or the game itself, maybe it’s time to call it quits and just let it be.
They are trying to improve the performance for a decade now and they are incapable of achieving that. Vengeance is a waste of resources during a time where they are sparse and should be used way more efficiently.
This is what the test showed last night. 1/5 of a set turned on while keeping all other Vengeance restrictions in place = lag fest with skills and weapons not firing many times. They should just give up, and put the 3 campaigns as is and move on to class reworks, combat balance and new content. This can't be fixed unless they dramatically lower population caps.Edited by Eldovar on 21 July 2026 11:140 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Everyone can read. The Problem with this is: „Some Sets“. Name this Sets, problem solved 🙈
This is why No-Proc Cyrodiil died. There was never once an in-game list or indicator for which sets worked. The only official list was located on the forums and never kept up to date.3 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When vengeance was launched earlier this year there was the suggestion at that point that trying to work sets into vengeance was something they were doing.
And it can't be denied one of the most common complaints about vengeance is that it's cookie cutter builds and we need to have sets for build diversity otherwise parts of the community won't engage.
It feels like ZoS can't win on this one.
ZOS is obligated to improve GH before they force vengeance.2 -
reazea✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Pretty sure the test was for performance more than combat balance. Performance improvements in Cyrodiil have been one of the primary requests from PvPers for years.
If they cannot achieve performance improvements without dismantling the core of Cyrodiil or the game itself, maybe it’s time to call it quits and just let it be.
They are trying to improve the performance for a decade now and they are incapable of achieving that. Vengeance is a waste of resources during a time where they are sparse and should be used way more efficiently.
What all has ZOS done to try and improve GH over the last decade exactly?
The only time I remember performance improvements was when they replaced the servers.0 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe they can identify which sets responsible for most strain and maybe somehow rework them on the background so they their impact is lowered?
Clearly when sets are in equation there is a problem. I also wonder what impacts most, abilities with no target cap or sets?0 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe they can identify which sets responsible for most strain and maybe somehow rework them on the background so they their impact is lowered?
Clearly when sets are in equation there is a problem. I also wonder what impacts most, abilities with no target cap or sets?
How they approached sets needs to be scrapped. Vengeance is just too different of an environment and there’s way too many edge cases to just enable sets in there. For example, there’s no battle spirit, so sets intended to work in Cyrodiil will not work in Vengeance, but sets specifically intended not to work in Cyrodiil will.
ZOS is able to just have things spawn in your Vengeance inventory. So a much better approach would be to include one of those PTS gear boxes in inventories with special sets specifically for vengeance. Or they could add a merchant with sets to purchase with AP, but the first sets are free.
If they did it this way there would be no confusion about what can actually be worn, and they could test much more precisely. For example if they only added static pure stat based Vengeance sets, would the game still lag? The next day they could add slightly more complex vengeance sets and so on. They would be able to pinpoint exactly which types of sets are most problematic.Edited by Stamicka on 21 July 2026 16:53PC NA and Xbox NA0 -
TheAwesomeChimpanzee✭✭✭✭✭When vengeance was launched earlier this year there was the suggestion at that point that trying to work sets into vengeance was something they were doing.
And it can't be denied one of the most common complaints about vengeance is that it's cookie cutter builds and we need to have sets for build diversity otherwise parts of the community won't engage.
It feels like ZoS can't win on this one.
The most common complain about vengeance are the mandated tests. Until those are gone ZOS will always lose.TO THE PVP COMMUNITY: OUR ABSENCE IS FEEDBACK. DO NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE JULY 20TH VENGEANCE TESTS.2
