ESO Priorities

RedMamba · July 20

Gabriel_H · July 20

Both.

RedMamba · July 20

Class rework

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Both.

With layoffs and limited resources it's not likely possible.

Gabriel_H · July 20

RedMamba wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Both.

With layoffs and limited resources it's not likely possible.

The team is the same size as when the created Wrothgar and Summerset. Besides that, one feeds into the other. Class skills in Vengeance are cut down versions, but they are still class skills.

If ZOS can get the performance data they need from Vengeance, it will speed up the process of them adding things back into the ruleset, which could mean expanded active skills, along with class passives.

SolarRune · July 20

Anything that happens for probably the next couple of months was pretty much there before lay offs, so get the point in asking the question, but don't think one impacts the other at this point.

agelonestar · July 20

Class rework

Has to be class rework I think - you can't start a class refresh programme and do only one or two classes, then stop.

It was always bad enough that it was going to take so long - meaning that combat is unbalanced for a huge period of time by gaming standards.

Vengeance can be iterative - after all, it's taken about a hundred years to address Cyrodiil issues, so another few won't matter. (I might have exaggerated there....but only a little

)

RedMamba · July 20

Class rework

I'm just going to let the poll speak for itself.

Wuuffyy · July 20

Class rework

I don’t necessarily think it’s a direct ‘this or that’. However, given the choice…

colossalvoids · July 20

Class rework

Gabriel_H wrote: »

RedMamba wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Both.

With layoffs and limited resources it's not likely possible.

The team is the same size as when the created Wrothgar and Summerset.

I don't really get why we have this argument presented all the time, the team is also lower the size of one which created Solstice (what a great year it was, right?), or any other recent thing. It's also different people, most people who made those x-packs are long gone. Writers, gameplay mechanics people, dungeon team, person who made the best to date single player arena in eso, artists, composers, ones who initially wrote those raw concept sketches, they're not here anymore.

Gabriel_H · July 20

colossalvoids wrote: »

I don't really get why we have this argument presented all the time

Because Wrothgar and Summerset are considered the epitome of content, story telling, and working systems in ESO history.

Luneca · July 20

Class rework

Is this even a question? Waste time in a PvP mode that benefits barely anyone OR use that time to improve combat overall in the game. When combat is one of the most complained about things in the game along with balance. I think I know the answer.

HatchetHaro · July 20

Classic false dilemma.

That's not how game development works. "Vengeance testing" and "Class reworks" are not mutually exclusive priorities; ZOS does not have to completely shut down one to work on the other.

While some combat designer work is involved in terms of balancing in Vengeance, the primary goal for Vengeance has always been network optimization, which is a task for ZOS's live-operations engineering team.

Pausing the Vengeance tests wouldn't magically fast-track the class reworks. It would just leave the network engineers sitting idle without the live data they need, while the combat design team would still continue working on the class reworks at the exact same pace. We won't get the class reworks any faster this way.

tomofhyrule · July 20

Class rework

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The team is the same size as when the created Wrothgar and Summerset.

colossalvoids wrote: »

I don't really get why we have this argument presented all the time

Because Wrothgar and Summerset are considered the epitome of content, story telling, and working systems in ESO history.

So you think that just because the team is the same size that magically the quality will match?
Please do enlighten us with the source of that claim.

Because the only one I have is from the person who got that quote at the ESO Tavern, and she was very sure to note that just because the team was the same size did not mean that there was any correlation with the quality of the content. In fact, she came back here to say that there are several reasons that claim is flawed.

Below:

baratron wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

^-

Actually I just checked and apparently prior to the recent layoffs, there were over 300 people, so they are left with around 100, which (apparently) is that size of the studio during their massive Orsinium expansion. They should be able to pull this off. In fact, it begs the question, with an identical size as a decade ago, why wouldn't they be able to produce large yearly expansions?

If they become lean and efficient, the game could continue unscathed.

I keep seeing this: “Oh, they’re the same size as Orsinium and that was amazing! We have nothing to worry about!”

Really? All of the people behind the reasons we liked Orsinium were forced out. The ‘goal’ of these reductions was to remove team leads so every developer is doing their own thing in their own bubble (or, as we know the true goal is, to have Copilot do it for them).

Are we expecting consistency? And if everyone is writing their own code for their own project (or again, having AI vibe code it), are we expecting the spaghetti code problem won’t get way worse?

I don't know where people are getting "we have nothing to worry about" from.

The quote from Jason Barnes was simply that Zenimax Online Studio, after layoffs, is approximately the same size as it was when they made Wrothgar and Summerset.

My exact phrasing, as posted on these forums, on UESP's Discord and on UESP's social media, was "while the layoffs are extremely upsetting for everyone involved (of course including players), this is not necessarily the end of new content or the game going into maintenance mode." I even bolded the "not necessarily".

I could not and did not say that the current ZOS team could produce a DLC as complete as Wrothgar, because:
(a) Wrothgar was produced under the compulsory subscription model.
(b) There is so much more code in the game now, therefore so much more scope for bad interactions and bugs.
(c) We don't know the exact makeup of the team that remains.

All we do know that a "reasonable" number of people are left at the studio.

Since then, a whole load of gaming news sites have copied all or parts of the original post, adding their own spin. It's genuinely alarming how little fact checking has been done in spreading my words. None of the sites have contacted me to ask for permission to quote me, and none of them have asked for any credentials or even proof that I was at the ESO Tavern! At last count, four of the sites have also misgendered me - I am and have always been female, but apparently even in 2026 women aren't considered to be serious gamers.

Also, more news has emerged as I've been travelling home from the Tavern (we always drive rather than fly), and now someone's got hold of a full list of job titles of laid-off staff via a Freedom of Information request to the State of Maryland Department of Labor. It's extremely upsetting to see the job titles and think about the people they represent. I already knew that Rich Lambert had been made redundant, but I didn't know about Susan Kath until a few hours ago.

People think I'm not worried about the future of ESO? I'm extremely worried!

But. It's not dead yet.

sshogrin · July 20

I think you overlooked the biggest thing: game performance.
One of the updates introduced the game have a background process that hangs when quitting the game. That still hasn't been fixed. Another update introduced frame lagging and lower frame rates. Those need to be addressed.
Is that because of the backend work prepping for cross play? Consoles are limited in frame rates lower than PC, so when cross play happens, that will most likely mean that PC will get frame rates limited as well.

LunaFlora · July 20

yes, both.

And anything else they are working on.
PvP and Class Refresh is not everything

Frayton · July 20

colossalvoids wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

RedMamba wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Both.

With layoffs and limited resources it's not likely possible.

The team is the same size as when the created Wrothgar and Summerset.

I don't really get why we have this argument presented all the time, the team is also lower the size of one which created Solstice (what a great year it was, right?), or any other recent thing. It's also different people, most people who made those x-packs are long gone. Writers, gameplay mechanics people, dungeon team, person who made the best to date single player arena in eso, artists, composers, ones who initially wrote those raw concept sketches, they're not here anymore.

I don't get why that's brought up as a positive either because it doesn't matter that it's the same number of people if it's not going to be the same quality, and it actually brings up more questions and concerns than reassurances.

ZOS_Kevin · July 20

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · July 20

Class rework

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Cancel the test @ZOS_Kevin. There's still time to save the PvP community.

Mattymoo92 · July 20

Class rework

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Will we get double AP for the test?

heldbetween · July 20

Class rework

The rework should have been started a long time ago, and with all the delays it's not really feasible to wait 2+ years to get a full rework.
They should ditch Vengeance and think a little less about making the game casual-oriented.

playsforfun · July 20

Class rework

Both but if I had to choose one or the other then it'd be class reworks, get them done asap, PvP is awful currently unless you are a dk or ww especially after they completely removed the counter to those overpowered classes that have already been reworked, vengeance is a fun idea but if you are going to do it make it one or the other imo which equates to either having vengeance full time or having just greyhost & blackreach, both won't work in tangent, vengeance is better for balance but will annoy the current PvP base you have imo as they'd either need to adapt or leave, having both styles of campaigns comes with balance issues & the continued gap between newer & experienced player base which makes it harder to retain the newer base.

Gabriel_H · July 20

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Cancel the test @ZOS_Kevin. There's still time to save the PvP community.

Ok, Vengeance is cancelled. The performance problem still exists in GH. The only solution available to ZOS is to alter the ruleset to reduce the calculations. What now?

tomofhyrule · July 20

Class rework

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Thank you Kevin. It is heartening to hear the refreshes are still a focus.

The players are nervous though. Would it be possible to have the Combat Team share some things? We really should have heard anything about Warden’s by now (DK essentially got the full patch notes the Thursday before U49’s PTS and was made a large focus of the Season Zero marketing, and we had the Werewolf concept art shown off in a DevChat stream weeks before U50 went to PTS along with a dev comment on the forums about how a new bit attack would be added), but the team has almost awkwardly been doing gymnastics to avoid even saying the word “Warden,” and the PTS was delayed by three weeks for a vague reason. Based on the original timeline, the Combat Team should be done with Warden and only polishing based on PTS feedback, and even starting to do Sorcerer by now. Is there any concept art or anything they could share to placate us?

I do also wonder why, if this Vengeance test was planned and scheduled months ago,
1) Why did it not get a first pass on PTS to both prep the players to accept it and also test to see which sets did and didn’t work?
2) Why was this not in the July Survival Guide article like the other planned Vengeance tests?
Those two factors are what’s making the players feel so off guard, and the timing of this being the first new communication after the news of the shakeups just made it land horribly.

heldbetween · July 20

Class rework

Gabriel_H wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Cancel the test @ZOS_Kevin. There's still time to save the PvP community.

Ok, Vengeance is cancelled. The performance problem still exists in GH. The only solution available to ZOS is to alter the ruleset to reduce the calculations. What now?

Give us more PVP modes (Arenas 1v1, 2v2, etc), so fewer people go to GH.
Renew IC, so fewer people go to GH.
Lower the cap and create more campaigns like GH.
Listen to the community (like really do it). Many VETERAN players have some great ideas/insight.

Gabriel_H · July 20

heldbetween wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Cancel the test @ZOS_Kevin. There's still time to save the PvP community.

Ok, Vengeance is cancelled. The performance problem still exists in GH. The only solution available to ZOS is to alter the ruleset to reduce the calculations. What now?

Give us more PVP modes (Arenas 1v1, 2v2, etc), so fewer people go to GH.
Renew IC, so fewer people go to GH.
Lower the cap and create more campaigns like GH.
Listen to the community (like really do it). Many VETERAN players have some great ideas/insight.

Righhhttttt. Lets lower the cap from 360 on a map that takes 30 minutes to run across.

Melivar · July 20

Class rework

But what Kevin said lol

heldbetween · July 20

Class rework

Gabriel_H wrote: »

heldbetween wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Cancel the test @ZOS_Kevin. There's still time to save the PvP community.

Ok, Vengeance is cancelled. The performance problem still exists in GH. The only solution available to ZOS is to alter the ruleset to reduce the calculations. What now?

Give us more PVP modes (Arenas 1v1, 2v2, etc), so fewer people go to GH.
Renew IC, so fewer people go to GH.
Lower the cap and create more campaigns like GH.
Listen to the community (like really do it). Many VETERAN players have some great ideas/insight.

Righhhttttt. Lets lower the cap from 360 on a map that takes 30 minutes to run across.

If you want "action", Cyro is not the right place. IC would be more oriented to do what you are trying to achieve.
But there are other alternatives other than "alter the ruleset to reduce the calculations"...

Treeshka · July 20

Class rework

I just want to see Nightblade rework after playing the character for 988 days.

DoofusMax · July 20

Whichever works for the devs. To quote Master Yoda, "Uncertainty leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to rage-posting on the ESO forums. Uncertainty is the path to the dark side." (and if he didn't say that, he should have)

ZOS_Kevin · July 20

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to give some insight here. The vengeance testing we have going on this week was already factored in and scheduled a few months ago. However, we are still committed to the class refresh and working on adjusting our schedule. We should have more to share soon. So class refresh is still a core focus moving forward.

Thank you Kevin. It is heartening to hear the refreshes are still a focus.

The players are nervous though. Would it be possible to have the Combat Team share some things? We really should have heard anything about Warden’s by now (DK essentially got the full patch notes the Thursday before U49’s PTS and was made a large focus of the Season Zero marketing, and we had the Werewolf concept art shown off in a DevChat stream weeks before U50 went to PTS along with a dev comment on the forums about how a new bit attack would be added), but the team has almost awkwardly been doing gymnastics to avoid even saying the word “Warden,” and the PTS was delayed by three weeks for a vague reason. Based on the original timeline, the Combat Team should be done with Warden and only polishing based on PTS feedback, and even starting to do Sorcerer by now. Is there any concept art or anything they could share to placate us?

I do also wonder why, if this Vengeance test was planned and scheduled months ago,
1) Why did it not get a first pass on PTS to both prep the players to accept it and also test to see which sets did and didn’t work?
2) Why was this not in the July Survival Guide article like the other planned Vengeance tests?
Those two factors are what’s making the players feel so off guard, and the timing of this being the first new communication after the news of the shakeups just made it land horribly.

So the vengeance tests require having a larger set of folks to play. So that is why we end up doing the tests on the live server. Giving wider access helps with the testing. As for the survival guide, it should have been on there. But I think that was a general oversight as to why it was not listed. But agreed, it should have been.

jirusan · July 20

Had the poll question on priorities be "PvP" or "Class rework", the replies would have probably been identical so I am not sure this makes any statement on Vengeance itself.

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ESO Priorities

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