Pulse Ganker and Shattered Mythic

Bernz007 · June 2

I love how these YouTubers post such videos, yet have not actually done any real competitive pvp with said mythic. Going into 8v8 BGs designed for casuals and ganking newbies in Black Reach shouldn't sway ZoS to look into this and potentially nerf it.

Open challenge: show me a vid where this mythic led to gankers taking over Cyrodiil. They can't do it

ioResult · June 2

Urzigurumash wrote: »

@ioResult You're not wrong about DK, but in terms of "game integrity" this is a case of a cure being worse than the ailment. On this build why even let your opponent get off the Platform in a BG, that's a worse trouncing than DK can provide. So you're both right

I can solve that problem simply by changing one tiny little thing in the BG maps. You want to know what it is? To the spawn platforms of all BGs, you apply the exact same invulnerability/anti-magic field which already exists in the game elsewhere. It already exists where the transitus shrines are on the top of the Vlastrus, Bruma, Cropsford buildings. You can stand up there all day but you can't cast any of your abilities nor can you be hit by anything while you're glowing with that light purple light. You have to jump down off those towers to get into PvP again. Same would be true of the BG platforms.

ZOS doesn't need to change any abilities or items in the game to accomplish this, it would solve the problem permanently for any ranged build in BGs and its yet another thing that ZOS should have already done years ago but hasn't because they seem to always prioritize PvE over PvP whenever it comes to changes.

Now if ZOS wanted to improve that even more, they could put in a little more work to add a spawn timer and when it goes off if you're still standing up on that invulnerable platform, you are instantly ported down to the ground exactly below where you were standing, so people couldn't spend the entire match up there just to get credit for "doing a BG".

ioResult · June 2

Bernz007 wrote: »

I love how these YouTubers post such videos, yet have not actually done any real competitive pvp with said mythic. Going into 8v8 BGs designed for casuals and ganking newbies in Black Reach shouldn't sway ZoS to look into this and potentially nerf it.

Open challenge: show me a vid where this mythic led to gankers taking over Cyrodiil. They can't do it

The only thing you can see now is groups of 3 - 6 pulse gankers concentrating fire into a ball group on a healer and being able to finally knock down the healers so the zerg can finally destroy the ball group. I've watched this happen a few times this patch and it has been glorious to watch every time.

And that's exactly why I would bet real money in Vegas that ZOS will nerf anything related to the pulse build. It is the latest thing to combat ball groups, so it has to be nerfed.

merevie · June 5

GH Ep have 8+ group of mediocre players who sit on rocks in crouch spamming force pulse.

It is so fast that they eat through all a faction's regular players moving to reinforce keeps.

They're also doing it when factions are about to be gated, when it's not their own faction winning, but just to get rage messages from the team moving to defend.

Not everyone cares about map play, but it shouldn't be possible to halt 20 people due to bad math at Zos.

Luneca · June 6

merevie wrote: »

GH Ep have 8+ group of mediocre players who sit on rocks in crouch spamming force pulse.

It is so fast that they eat through all a faction's regular players moving to reinforce keeps.

They're also doing it when factions are about to be gated, when it's not their own faction winning, but just to get rage messages from the team moving to defend.

Not everyone cares about map play, but it shouldn't be possible to halt 20 people due to bad math at Zos.

8 people can also ball up and achieve the same thing without being easy to kill. Explain how it's different or more advantageous. If 20 people got killed at the same exact place, in the same exact way, then they have a problem and it's not just the gank build causing it. They have no teamwork, no unity, and no tactical thought going into their gameplay.

Had I been in that group of 20 and I know the gankers are coming, I would have just fired siege. I'm not even joking, I'm serious. Just firing coldfire siege would do a LOT of good at that chokepoint, esp. if they get hit.

CannedChicken · June 9

I really don't understand all this talk about pulse gankers being OP. I played for 6 hours yesterday and didn't get attacked by a single one. Meanwhile 80% of players I'm fighting against are these unkillable DKs with infinite resources. This pulse ganker crap is a complete distraction from the real problem that has infected cyrodiil.

Sylosi · June 9

redacted to avoid dimness

Sedare38 · June 10

merevie wrote: »

GH Ep have 8+ group of mediocre players who sit on rocks in crouch spamming force pulse.

It is so fast that they eat through all a faction's regular players moving to reinforce keeps.

They're also doing it when factions are about to be gated, when it's not their own faction winning, but just to get rage messages from the team moving to defend.

Not everyone cares about map play, but it shouldn't be possible to halt 20 people due to bad math at Zos.

Listen, those were our rocks, and they mean a lot to us. Also, I'd say we're a little bit better than mediocre, maybe slightly above average, thank you very much.

Oblivion_Protocol · June 10

Yeah, I’ve been playing this game a lot more consistently over the last two weeks. I’ve even jumped on a pulse ganker myself. And you know what?

I’m not seeing the magic here.

Sure, the build can devour someone with 25k HP in seconds. And groups of people spamming it are a problem. But groups of spammers are a problem regardless of what they’re spamming. But put one pulse ganker against a well-built 35k+ HP DPS build, and the solo ganker crumbles 9 times out of 10.

IZZEFlameLash · June 12

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Yeah, I’ve been playing this game a lot more consistently over the last two weeks. I’ve even jumped on a pulse ganker myself. And you know what?

I’m not seeing the magic here.

Sure, the build can devour someone with 25k HP in seconds. And groups of people spamming it are a problem. But groups of spammers are a problem regardless of what they’re spamming. But put one pulse ganker against a well-built 35k+ HP DPS build, and the solo ganker crumbles 9 times out of 10.

I also refuse to believe people running meta sets such as rallying cry on top of all the impens with 35+K health and so on are instantly killed by a single pulse ganker. If my ever changing off meta build character can survive the gank attempts most of the times, so definitely can these 35k+ health, 4k crit, 36k+ resistance meta set such as Rallying Cry runners. And pack behavior of gankers are nothing new either. When bow skills were used for ganking, there were dedicated bow ganker groups that would all spam the same rotation at you too. It is indeed group vs you problem at that point.

IZZEFlameLash · June 12

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Yeah, I’ve been playing this game a lot more consistently over the last two weeks. I’ve even jumped on a pulse ganker myself. And you know what?

I’m not seeing the magic here.

Sure, the build can devour someone with 25k HP in seconds. And groups of people spamming it are a problem. But groups of spammers are a problem regardless of what they’re spamming. But put one pulse ganker against a well-built 35k+ HP DPS build, and the solo ganker crumbles 9 times out of 10.

I also refuse to believe people running meta sets such as rallying cry on top of all the impens with 35+K health and so on are instantly killed by a single pulse ganker. If my ever changing off meta build character can survive the gank attempts most of the times, so definitely can these 35k+ health, 4k crit, 36k+ resistance meta set such as Rallying Cry runners. And pack behavior of gankers are nothing new either. When bow skills were used for ganking, there were dedicated bow ganker groups that would all spam the same rotation at you too. It is indeed group vs you problem at that point.

Also, since I seem unable to edit the post...

I really don't think Shattered Path Signet is the culprit here. Pulse ganking has existed, as far as I can remember, since the introduction of Psijic skill of Imbue Weapon and its morphs. What ZOS actually needs to do is to look at how it mechanically works, not nerf the mythic. The mythic only boosts already high damage a bit more, which... as mentioned, something Monomyth Reforged also can do.

Sedare38 · June 12

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Yeah, I’ve been playing this game a lot more consistently over the last two weeks. I’ve even jumped on a pulse ganker myself. And you know what?

I’m not seeing the magic here.

Sure, the build can devour someone with 25k HP in seconds. And groups of people spamming it are a problem. But groups of spammers are a problem regardless of what they’re spamming. But put one pulse ganker against a well-built 35k+ HP DPS build, and the solo ganker crumbles 9 times out of 10.

I also refuse to believe people running meta sets such as rallying cry on top of all the impens with 35+K health and so on are instantly killed by a single pulse ganker. If my ever changing off meta build character can survive the gank attempts most of the times, so definitely can these 35k+ health, 4k crit, 36k+ resistance meta set such as Rallying Cry runners. And pack behavior of gankers are nothing new either. When bow skills were used for ganking, there were dedicated bow ganker groups that would all spam the same rotation at you too. It is indeed group vs you problem at that point.

Also, since I seem unable to edit the post...

I really don't think Shattered Path Signet is the culprit here. Pulse ganking has existed, as far as I can remember, since the introduction of Psijic skill of Imbue Weapon and its morphs. What ZOS actually needs to do is to look at how it mechanically works, not nerf the mythic. The mythic only boosts already high damage a bit more, which... as mentioned, something Monomyth Reforged also can do.

The magic comes from the complete burst which requires set up and usually a bar swap:

First the primary set up: Recuperative treatise + Crystal weapon.
First the secondary set up if you want: 2 scribes, one gives Minor Courage (200 weapon/spell dmg) for 20 seconds. The second gives that 2000 weapon/spell dmg buff to your next DD attack.
Second the rotation the first: Focus aim + medium weave attack -- this will be 2 active hits + at 1-3 passive hits depending on if your weapon enchant is increase weapons/spell damage or a damage enchant like poison, disease, etc.: When the 2 hits lands, damage unleashed: Focus aim, Medium weave attack, Weapon enchant if dmg based, Sunder from focus aim, Rando enchant from Signet.
Second the rotation the second: Swap bar altnerate crushing shock and light attacks: Damage comes from Crushing, Light attack, weapon enchant, signet from light attack, status effects from using crushing shock (chance based on whatever) and possibly Winterborn if wearing that.
if target lives: re-cast crystal weapon and re-do crushing/light attack.

There is nothing magical to this build. It is a high risk, high reward build (as I've stated before). It is a glass cannon to the extreme, especially for those who have 18k health. Your pretty much wearing all light armor, maybe 1 medium, maybe 1 heavy depending on loadout. There are a myriad of countermeasures including other gankers who win the battle of submarine warfare.

THIS BUILD IS NOT OVERPOWERED! Can you nearly kill anything in a single rotation IF they're caught flat footed (i.e. on siege, afk, or traveling by steed when ZERO buffs are on them? YES, but that's the point of ganking isn't it? Take advantage of a situation that's in your favor. I'd also argue that's the point of PVP in general.

I'd much rather see more people complain about the ludicrous ball groups with 50k+ shields rolling over 1 person b/c they only can AOE so good. String them out, kill a key healer, and they start to fall like dominoes if you're lucky. But that's off topic.

This burst build is just that. AND you can be successful with 0 help from the signet. Blow your ulti, no bonus for a bit, but it still packs a punch b/c of the sub-class combo.

Ways to survive this?

DK's can mitigate 50% of the incoming missile damage.
L2 make detect potions
Warden shields that reflect 3 bits of damage will kill the ganker if they have 18k
Spam shields
Be a healer
Be a blocktank/healer that needs 20 people to kill them but probably won't hurt anyone themselves
figure out your leap is your gap closer on a melee build then whip spam b/c it's the most op thing ever (maybe not anymore, no idea).
hide behind another box
use los (not exploits please) by going around a tree or a rock, or into a tower (some of you love towers so good)
simply don't travel the same line over an dover again expecting the 8th time you'll make it by the 8 gankers near those rocks where you've been killed over and over for the last 15 minutes
BE MORE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS!

This build that is cried about has a myriad of counters and those super angry are either on just as squishy a toon, or are super tanks who don't like there is a method of countering the overpowered and long-overdue needing for nerf tank + insta-heal meta that has plagued this game.

This isn't up for debate. The signet doesn't need nerfing. Sub-classing, which should actually be called multi-classing, should be.

Urzigurumash · June 13

Sedare38 wrote: »

This isn't up for debate.

Ok. If we want to talk about something should we message you first

Usureki · June 16

Sedare38 wrote: »

This isn't up for debate.

How to destroy an otherwise well built up argument with one sentence 101

Goregram1 · June 17

NGL every time i get 1 shot by this i just go play something else.

Sedare38 · June 17

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

This isn't up for debate.

Ok. If we want to talk about something should we message you first

as supreme lord commander of the 3 factions yes.

Sedare38 · June 17

Usureki wrote: »

Sedare38 wrote: »

This isn't up for debate.

How to destroy an otherwise well built up argument with one sentence 101

the not for debate part is the signet nerf b/c you know they'll hrothgar and caluurions it into unusability b/c ZOS has never been known for a soft touch when it comes to nerfing things that might actually kill people/affect TTK -- only when it's providing defense/keeping aliveness.

Also if i could edit my own post i'd probably have removed that line after posting. i was all girded up in my loins.

wilsonwjesse · June 18

SPS needs a 50% nerf (and it will still be good) and Status Effects need a 1 second CD per effect so ball groups can't just eli sus spam you to death with no counter play. You need to be able to block or roll dodge things that can kill you this fast.

gammelscroll · June 18

Sedare38 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Yeah, I’ve been playing this game a lot more consistently over the last two weeks. I’ve even jumped on a pulse ganker myself. And you know what?

I’m not seeing the magic here.

Sure, the build can devour someone with 25k HP in seconds. And groups of people spamming it are a problem. But groups of spammers are a problem regardless of what they’re spamming. But put one pulse ganker against a well-built 35k+ HP DPS build, and the solo ganker crumbles 9 times out of 10.

I also refuse to believe people running meta sets such as rallying cry on top of all the impens with 35+K health and so on are instantly killed by a single pulse ganker. If my ever changing off meta build character can survive the gank attempts most of the times, so definitely can these 35k+ health, 4k crit, 36k+ resistance meta set such as Rallying Cry runners. And pack behavior of gankers are nothing new either. When bow skills were used for ganking, there were dedicated bow ganker groups that would all spam the same rotation at you too. It is indeed group vs you problem at that point.

Also, since I seem unable to edit the post...

I really don't think Shattered Path Signet is the culprit here. Pulse ganking has existed, as far as I can remember, since the introduction of Psijic skill of Imbue Weapon and its morphs. What ZOS actually needs to do is to look at how it mechanically works, not nerf the mythic. The mythic only boosts already high damage a bit more, which... as mentioned, something Monomyth Reforged also can do.

The magic comes from the complete burst which requires set up and usually a bar swap:
First the primary set up: Recuperative treatise + Crystal weapon.

First the secondary set up if you want: 2 scribes, one gives Minor Courage (200 weapon/spell dmg) for 20 seconds. The second gives that 2000 weapon/spell dmg buff to your next DD attack.

Second the rotation the first: Focus aim + medium weave attack -- this will be 2 active hits + at 1-3 passive hits depending on if your weapon enchant is increase weapons/spell damage or a damage enchant like poison, disease, etc.: When the 2 hits lands, damage unleashed: Focus aim, Medium weave attack, Weapon enchant if dmg based, Sunder from focus aim, Rando enchant from Signet.

Second the rotation the second: Swap bar altnerate crushing shock and light attacks: Damage comes from Crushing, Light attack, weapon enchant, signet from light attack, status effects from using crushing shock (chance based on whatever) and possibly Winterborn if wearing that.

if target lives: re-cast crystal weapon and re-do crushing/light attack.

There is nothing magical to this build. It is a high risk, high reward build (as I've stated before). It is a glass cannon to the extreme, especially for those who have 18k health. Your pretty much wearing all light armor, maybe 1 medium, maybe 1 heavy depending on loadout. There are a myriad of countermeasures including other gankers who win the battle of submarine warfare.

THIS BUILD IS NOT OVERPOWERED! Can you nearly kill anything in a single rotation IF they're caught flat footed (i.e. on siege, afk, or traveling by steed when ZERO buffs are on them? YES, but that's the point of ganking isn't it? Take advantage of a situation that's in your favor. I'd also argue that's the point of PVP in general.

I'd much rather see more people complain about the ludicrous ball groups with 50k+ shields rolling over 1 person b/c they only can AOE so good. String them out, kill a key healer, and they start to fall like dominoes if you're lucky. But that's off topic.

This burst build is just that. AND you can be successful with 0 help from the signet. Blow your ulti, no bonus for a bit, but it still packs a punch b/c of the sub-class combo.

Ways to survive this?
DK's can mitigate 50% of the incoming missile damage.

L2 make detect potions

Warden shields that reflect 3 bits of damage will kill the ganker if they have 18k

Spam shields

Be a healer

Be a blocktank/healer that needs 20 people to kill them but probably won't hurt anyone themselves

figure out your leap is your gap closer on a melee build then whip spam b/c it's the most op thing ever (maybe not anymore, no idea).

hide behind another box

use los (not exploits please) by going around a tree or a rock, or into a tower (some of you love towers so good)

simply don't travel the same line over an dover again expecting the 8th time you'll make it by the 8 gankers near those rocks where you've been killed over and over for the last 15 minutes

BE MORE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS!

This build that is cried about has a myriad of counters and those super angry are either on just as squishy a toon, or are super tanks who don't like there is a method of countering the overpowered and long-overdue needing for nerf tank + insta-heal meta that has plagued this game.

This isn't up for debate. The signet doesn't need nerfing. Sub-classing, which should actually be called multi-classing, should be.

Imagine defending a broken ass mythic that everyone use in their build to status effect abuse. That ring need to be nerfed to the ground. Even werewolf are running that mythics with thread of war and that other status effect gear , abusi g the hell out of that and one shotting ppl. And again ppl think werewolf are so OP.
IT IS THE SHATTERED SIGNET MYTHIC!
Try play ww on competive 4v4 without status effect abuse, and come here tell me somerhing is OP.
I guarantee you that you will get so smacked as ww without that mythics. ( Hello DKs)

BigPlays420 · June 22

wilsonwjesse wrote: »

SPS needs a 50% nerf (and it will still be good) and Status Effects need a 1 second CD per effect so ball groups can't just eli sus spam you to death with no counter play. You need to be able to block or roll dodge things that can kill you this fast.

tell me you don’t know what a ball group is without telling me you don’t know what a ball group is

Sedare38 · June 29

Well you all got what you whined for. Zos in typical Zos fashion made the signet useless in Cyrodiil as it's monsters only now. Now everyone will swap back to Monomyth and you'll still be hit by loads of status effects and Recuperative + Crystal Weapons. Then you'll come back here to whine and zos will again completely nerf that b/c 1. If anything can hurt their precious tank/heal/over-shield meta then it's bad. 2. Zos has never been able to adjust slightly. It's always completely. I fully expect this to be deleted too by the overlords because god forbid direct criticism and counter argument to the powers that be and not just another player.

Bushido2513 · June 29

Sedare38 wrote: »

Well you all got what you whined for. Zos in typical Zos fashion made the signet useless in Cyrodiil as it's monsters only now. Now everyone will swap back to Monomyth and you'll still be hit by loads of status effects and Recuperative + Crystal Weapons. Then you'll come back here to whine and zos will again completely nerf that b/c 1. If anything can hurt their precious tank/heal/over-shield meta then it's bad. 2. Zos has never been able to adjust slightly. It's always completely. I fully expect this to be deleted too by the overlords because god forbid direct criticism and counter argument to the powers that be and not just another player.

It's never going to be perfect balance but looking at the poll most agree that this was too much. Yes there are tanks and tanky players but in a high damage scenario like this it's either tank up and maybe have a chance or be that much closer to a 1 shot

To be fair to zos they have been trying to me better about adjusting during the pts during each week at least.

They also let this make it to live and painted themselves into a corner where the best option was just to pull it. It's not great but it's better than going till another pts.

There will likely always be ganks and combos in this game but let's at least try to have a decent risk to reward ratio.

Sedare38 · June 29

Bushido2513 wrote: »

There will likely always be ganks and combos in this game but let's at least try to have a decent risk to reward ratio.

This guild had a decent risk to reward ratio . . . it was high damage 0 cloak or streak with the only invis being pots and vamp sprint, which takes 3 seconds (I believe) not to mention most who ran the build had 18k life and not much armor defense due to nearly wearing 7 light maybe 5/1/1 depending on load out OR perhaps 5-6 Medium. This build is the definition of risk to reward -- high damage but a wet fart will kill you if caught.

Yes the damage was high, but it also wasn't the end all be all killing everything it touched . . .

jjjozo · June 29

They just made Shattered Path Signet PvE only.
The status effect meta still works perfectly fine, just take Monomyth or whatever.
The ring wasn't ever the problem with additive percentage calculations, but it has been already high base status effect damage and unlimited proc cap.
It doesn't matter if you fit along side your abilities extra 20x1200 status dmg in 2 seconds with the ring, or extra 20x1000 status dmg in 2 seconds without the ring.
Cyro still continues to be filled with status effects cheesers and gankers.

Bushido2513 · June 29

Sedare38 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

There will likely always be ganks and combos in this game but let's at least try to have a decent risk to reward ratio.

This guild had a decent risk to reward ratio . . . it was high damage 0 cloak or streak with the only invis being pots and vamp sprint, which takes 3 seconds (I believe) not to mention most who ran the build had 18k life and not much armor defense due to nearly wearing 7 light maybe 5/1/1 depending on load out OR perhaps 5-6 Medium. This build is the definition of risk to reward -- high damage but a wet fart will kill you if caught.

Yes the damage was high, but it also wasn't the end all be all killing everything it touched . . .

You forgot to add the range though. I've killed more pulse gankers than I've died to but the problem was that I was worth working incredibly hard to deal with their simple damage combo.

Have my health go down to about 10k then frantically do a few things in short order before the kill shot comes. Mind you I have a defensive build with 40k health.

So now I have to quickly roll dodge, heal up, figure the direction and distance of the enemy, move to engage, work with them also doing roll dodges while trying to shoot me and hope I'm quicker even though I'm starting on the back foot.

That's too many advantages to my opponent for such easy work on their end.

And that's if I'm not already engaged in another fight.

Ganking is fine at range but a player with a decent build and decent reaction time should be able to fend it off and respond because that's the reward for being on guard with a good build.

But it shouldn't be the even while being a decent player with a decent build I am now scrambling for my life from a simple ranged attack

Bushido2513 · June 29

jjjozo wrote: »

They just made Shattered Path Signet PvE only.
The status effect meta still works perfectly fine, just take Monomyth or whatever.
The ring wasn't ever the problem with additive percentage calculations, but it has been already high base status effect damage and unlimited proc cap.
It doesn't matter if you fit along side your abilities extra 20x1200 status dmg in 2 seconds with the ring, or extra 20x1000 status dmg in 2 seconds without the ring.
Cyro still continues to be filled with status effects cheesers and gankers.

That might be true but what was there before the ring just wasn't as bad as with the ring.

I took a break from the game for many months before this patch. It wasn't because of the level of damage at the time. It was the stale meta.

Gankers are fine but there just has to be some level of balance. Getting in close should have the higher damage. At range you should hit hard but with enough pressure to force a quick reaction, not two tap them.

Goregram1 · June 29

They said they fixed this but it doesn't feel like it

IZZEFlameLash · June 30

Goregram1 wrote: »

They said they fixed this but it doesn't feel like it

Because, it wasn't the mythic that was enabling it. As usual, they decided to whack the item that is most discussed instead of actually looking into what enables things such as Pulse ganking. If we talk about how OP Monomyth is, they might nerf it too. Maybe that will fix it (I don't think so).

Bushido2513 · June 30

Goregram1 wrote: »

They said they fixed this but it doesn't feel like it

Depends on what you were looking for. It wouldn't change a hard hitting werewolf for instance but you won't catch a pulse gank as easily as you would if at all.

Also to really see the difference you'd have to play against some of the same people you know were running it and you can tell that their damage will have changed.

If you still don't notice a difference then it just means this change wasn't related to issues you might have seen.

Bushido2513 · June 30

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Goregram1 wrote: »

They said they fixed this but it doesn't feel like it

Because, it wasn't the mythic that was enabling it. As usual, they decided to whack the item that is most discussed instead of actually looking into what enables things such as Pulse ganking. If we talk about how OP Monomyth is, they might nerf it too. Maybe that will fix it (I don't think so).

There's a difference in the ease and power of a pulse gank pre and post change. If you really don't see it, try looking for videos post change that show people hitting the same kill numbers with the same esse. I don't think you'll find them but I could be wrong.

Also it's not just that pulse gank it was that the mythic was showing up in too many builds across the board.

If someone wants to lose pure class buffs to spec into crit then I'm fine with that because my pure class now matches up to the power of subclass.

It's not a perfect system but this changes helps more than it hurts by far when it comes to PVP at least