With WW providing Major Courage, please add something useful to healers

Varana · June 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Powerful assault does in fact help a healer heal better, though. It gives them more spell damage to heal with.

Then put it on a DD, it is after all a medium set.

This is the old Alkosh thing all over again.

Where a set comes from, what weight it is in, or even what ZOS intended with it - does not matter.
Important is what the set provides and how that effect is applied most effectively.
In the words of Hetfield et al., nothing else matters.

And again, if additional raw healing were actually needed in, having sets that boost raw healing is a useful option to have.
But very little content, outside of some particular fights and maybe the last trial or so, actually needs that healing power.
Why would you want to have more of something you don't need?

BardokRedSnow · June 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Saying healers should only need to worry about healing is like saying tanks should only have to worry about holding block. If thats all they did I wouldn't find it more interesting than dps. Dps just having to dps and not stand in stupid is why I never got into it, its so boring.

Then you are missing the point entirely.

Healing isn't just one thing.

No kidding, that's why everyone here is telling you this is a bad take, the thread is literally about the lack of need of healers to provide a specific major buff.

frogthroat · June 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

There are better options. PA adds about 3% to the power of the heal. Sanctuary adds about 10%.

Besides a couple of heal checks here and there, where do you need 10% extra healing instead of buffs for the group or debuffs for the boss? To make healers' job even more boring than it is now?

Gabriel_H wrote: »

I'm not saying healers don't need some new sets, but there are a ton of useful sets for healing without buffing the group.

Raw healing is not the issue. A set for healing without buffs is not that useful in other parts than the few heal checks that exists.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Healers aren't in danger of losing group or trial spots.

No, but trials are in danger of losing healers.

I don't particularly enjoy running in the mix Ralph Wiggum "I'm helping" style the whole trial. I would like to also do something useful.

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

It's not relevant. Just curiosity.

It not a secret, but I'm afraid it will again side track this convo. I am not asking for optimisation tips for my current prog. We already got that covered, down to the glyphs I use. I am talking about a lack of useful healer sets in general.

But if you are genuinely interested, PM me. I'll gladly tell. Just not here where the topic will be side tracked to optimisation.

BardokRedSnow · June 14

Varana wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Powerful assault does in fact help a healer heal better, though. It gives them more spell damage to heal with.

Then put it on a DD, it is after all a medium set.

This is the old Alkosh thing all over again.

Where a set comes from, what weight it is in, or even what ZOS intended with it - does not matter.
Important is what the set provides and how that effect is applied most effectively.
In the words of Hetfield et al., nothing else matters.

And again, if additional raw healing were actually needed in, having sets that boost raw healing is a useful option to have.
But very little content, outside of some particular fights and maybe the last trial or so, actually needs that healing power.
Why would you want to have more of something you don't need?

Metallica reference, nice

alpha_synuclein · June 14

frogthroat wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

It's not relevant. Just curiosity.

It not a secret, but I'm afraid it will again side track this convo. I am not asking for optimisation tips for my current prog. We already got that covered, down to the glyphs I use. I am talking about a lack of useful healer sets in general.

But if you are genuinely interested, PM me. I'll gladly tell. Just not here where the topic will be side tracked to optimisation.

That's true. Never mind.

frogthroat · June 15

Already saw an issue yesterday. Did a couple of pug trials. I was ROJO and the other healer was checking if there's a WW in the group. There was. At least two of them. So, no SPC. He was struggling to figure out what to use, since without SPC there is no generic setups for the non-ROJO healer any more.

So yeah, the basic setups for random trial runs have been ROJO and SPC/flex. Now it's ROJO and... no idea.

A bit off topic, but the strangest thing happened in vRG yesterday. I saw in the group finder there was 1t and 8dd. Cool, starts soon, then. Joined. Oh, it has already started and they are at Bashei. So 1t and 2h have quit/kicked. Second healer joined and we agreed I'm ROJO and they're SPC. Except when they figured out we have WWs in the group. No idea what they ended up using.

Of course there was the usual pug shenanigans, a HA player staying behind healers collecting curses and not getting heals despite us asking them to go closer to the group, and people trying to burn Bashei while abos keep piling up. But we managed to kill Bashei and later complete the trial.

After Xalvakka was dead the strangest thing happened. People were thanking healers. I had no idea how to respond to that since that is such a rare occurence. I suppose the fact that both healers were missing at Bashei has something to do with that, but it was still a new situation and I was confused - you thank us... like, for real and not sarcastic? You're not blaming me for not healing the one shot heavy you took to the face? You're not blaming me for you standing in the red? What is going on? So anyway, if anyone from yesterday's vRG pug run on PCEU is reading this: thanks for the thanks. Much appreciated. I was just too flabbergasted to respond.

But anyway, yeah, the basic default composition is going to be different since there's not necessarily aROJO and SPC healers, but ROJO and... who knows healer.

Treeshka · June 15

If i am not needed to run a Major Courage set. I would probably run Combat Physician and Blind and Potentates with Nightblade and push for ultimate regeneration and spam Barriers. With this new class mastery you may even run Heartland Conqueror with Decisive traits instead of Combat Physician and push your ultimate regen to the roof.

allochthons · June 16

FWIW, a PS guild I'm in that runs end-game content is asking for a vSE-HM comp of:

MT Pure Sorc Yoln/Pearl
OT: Pure DK Xoryn/Lucent/Archdruid
WW DD
Major Force Arc DD
Heal Pure Warden MA/Pill/Naz
Heal Pure Templar MA/PA/Ozezan
Z'enKosh.

With info on which banners to run, which class masteries to have for some of the roles.
--
The non-end-game comps are still:

1 SPC/Pill Heal
1 Ma/PA Heal
1 Zens (WM or Alkosh, lead decides)

Just providing the info, I don't have opinions on the new comps yet.

Orbital78 · June 16

Renato90085 wrote: »

time to mk/xoryn

Yes please, I see too many healers that provide basically nothing but heals. No resource assistance at all. OP: this just releases you from SPC jail, though MK jail is a far worse fate.

Lord_Hev · June 16

Let me get this right. The big argument here is that healers are feeling useless because werewolves provide major courage... a buff that was sourced by healers... that requires zero input... other than casting heals and only heals... and doing the same thing with literally any other set suddenly invalidates this... because your heals from casting heals which was the only thing you were doing as an spc healer... suddenly has no value... Okay...

frogthroat · June 16

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Let me get this right. The big argument here is that healers are feeling useless because werewolves provide major courage... a buff that was sourced by healers... that requires zero input... other than casting heals and only heals... and doing the same thing with literally any other set suddenly invalidates this... because your heals from casting heals which was the only thing you were doing as an spc healer... suddenly has no value... Okay...

No. That's not it. It has been explained here, but let's go through it again. Healer sets are already limited. Not much have been added and many have been gutted. SPC is just the latest in a long line of nerfs and redundancies. Pearls are redundant, Pillager is nerfed to Oblivion. If they add another source for Major Slayer, we'll lose MA. And when they eventually nerf MK and we have PA on OT, then what? The point is healers lose sets due to nerfs and redundancies, but gain very little. Xoryn is not compensating for all the losses healers have had the recent updates.

SolarRune · June 16

The potential is there for resource sets to be useful, but most builds are designed around sustainability without that. The only way resource sets become useful is if chars are running at a resource deficite, but then that impacts other areas of the game.

LunaFlora · June 16

Werewolf's Ferocious Roar only has a radius of 10 meters, Spell Power Cure range depends on your chosen heals which can be way higher range.

i do not think SPC is entirely redundant,
will the Werewolf consistently use Ferocious Roar every 20 seconds and when within 10 meters of the other Damage Dealers?
A healer heals more often and has abilities with higher range so SPC's Major Courage will likely be active more often.

Regardless i also hope we get more healer sets in the near future,
hoping that Crimson Veldt trial in update 51 has at least one good set.