Does ZOS want to kill pvp or force vengeance with werewolves?

Nordstern · June 16

I get the reason why new/reworked parts of the game are strong, but how in the world can you make werewolf in the state it is right now go on live server? There really can't be internal testing in a pvp environment. DK was really strong damage wise but it was still possible to burst down every single one of them. Now we get werewolves that have 45k HP, insanely strong damage, unlimited sustain and almost zero downtime of ww form. Whats the reason for this other than killing pvp or forcing people into vengeance? There was so much feedback in the PTS cycle about ww being way too strong and yet this is what goes live.
I don't remember when we last had something closely as op as ww in U50. Even pulse gankers are a joke in comparison. Yes, they are super annoying and require very low skill to one shot almost anybody but at least they can be killed if you get hands on them.
Theres plenty of easy changes that would reduce this problem and this can under no circumstances wait until U51!!!
- Make ww form way harder to sustain. The strength would be ok if it had like 10s uptime and 20+s downtime
- Drastically increase weaknesses: make wws receive 50% more poison damage. And yes, a 50% increase would be needed at least if this would be the only change. By the way, who in the world thought that the poison damage vulnerability of wws had to be LOWERED while giving werewolf this insane buff at the same time?
- Drastically nerf the buff food. Ww would be op even without but they still get a buff food that easily outferforms every other buff food in the game by a lot! I mean, look at the vamp buff foods. Thats how the ww buff food should be. Normal stats and maybe a bit more of each.
- HP cap: This should be added generally but for wws this would be very important. Limit HP to 30k and wws would still be insanely strong. Yet they would actually have to pay attention and block/dodge/heal in the right moment to not die.

Please make drastic changes ASAP, this isn't fun at all.

BardokRedSnow · June 16

Nerf dk nerf shattered paths now nerf werewolf lol this is exactly why I said we shouldn’t nerf shattered paths, now the op pulse gankers have a big hairy target to hit that people despise.

If werewolf was in such a need of beefing you’d see them in ballgroups. In greyhost and bgs werewolves get mauled, they’re only tough 1v1 or xv1, they don’t have cross heals and their primary damage is single target spam. All they can do besides that is spam fear. DK are still Stier, if werewolves upset you get a group of DK and singe their fur.

edit: messed up the name lol rip, shattered paths

Mashille · June 16

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Nerf dk nerf shattering fate now nerf werewolf lol this is exactly why I said we shouldn’t nerf shattering fate, now the op pulse gankers have a big hairy target to hit that people despise.

If werewolf was in such a need of beefing you’d see them in ballgroups. In greyhost and bgs werewolves get mauled, they’re only tough 1v1 or xv1, they don’t have cross heals and their primary damage is single target spam. All they can do besides that is spam fear. DK are still Stier, if werewolves upset you get a group of DK and singe their fur.

Shattered Paths Signet still absolutely needs a nerf in PvP. Werewolves being a bit overtuned doesn't stop Shattered Path Signet from being broken.

BardokRedSnow · June 16

Mashille wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Nerf dk nerf shattering fate now nerf werewolf lol this is exactly why I said we shouldn’t nerf shattering fate, now the op pulse gankers have a big hairy target to hit that people despise.

If werewolf was in such a need of beefing you’d see them in ballgroups. In greyhost and bgs werewolves get mauled, they’re only tough 1v1 or xv1, they don’t have cross heals and their primary damage is single target spam. All they can do besides that is spam fear. DK are still Stier, if werewolves upset you get a group of DK and singe their fur.

Shattered Paths Signet still absolutely needs a nerf in PvP. Werewolves being a bit overtuned doesn't stop Shattered Path Signet from being broken.

if it was truly broken it would be good on every build in any situation. It isn't, its only strong on niche gank builds, which isnt good for any game mode with competent players, and single target werewolf builds which have to stay parsing on one individual, so duels and xv1

Outside of these scenarios and builds it doesn't perform very well at all, and if you did nerf it it'd be virtually useless.

Everything thats actually useful in this game people wanna nerf and call broken.

LadyGP · June 16

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Nerf dk nerf shattering fate now nerf werewolf lol this is exactly why I said we shouldn’t nerf shattering fate, now the op pulse gankers have a big hairy target to hit that people despise.

If werewolf was in such a need of beefing you’d see them in ballgroups. In greyhost and bgs werewolves get mauled, they’re only tough 1v1 or xv1, they don’t have cross heals and their primary damage is single target spam. All they can do besides that is spam fear. DK are still Stier, if werewolves upset you get a group of DK and singe their fur.

Was that a WW I saw rolling with TY last night?

But you're right.. first its DK then mythic now this.

They are reworking things to bring everything up to a subclassing level of OP. Once everything is at the same or near same level... lets revisit this conversation.

BardokRedSnow · June 16

My autocorrect turned nerfing into beefing but somehow that’s still appropriate lol

Tommy_The_Gun · June 16

"Nerf everything I don't play" is a bad approach....

dark_hunterxmg · June 16

I guess you haven't ran into the Sorcerers yet...

Gabriel_H · June 16

LadyGP wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Nerf dk nerf shattering fate now nerf werewolf lol this is exactly why I said we shouldn’t nerf shattering fate, now the op pulse gankers have a big hairy target to hit that people despise.

If werewolf was in such a need of beefing you’d see them in ballgroups. In greyhost and bgs werewolves get mauled, they’re only tough 1v1 or xv1, they don’t have cross heals and their primary damage is single target spam. All they can do besides that is spam fear. DK are still Stier, if werewolves upset you get a group of DK and singe their fur.

Was that a WW I saw rolling with TY last night?

But you're right.. first its DK then mythic now this.

They are reworking things to bring everything up to a subclassing level of OP. Once everything is at the same or near same level... lets revisit this conversation.

It will change the subject of the conversation but not the conversation itself. The problem is scaling. Balancing at 1 v 1 does not translate to balance at 5 v 5. It's the inherent problem of having group buffs and large AoEs and stackable HoTs and DoTs.

If only ZOS would create a ruleset without all those things and achieve a reasonable level of class balance ... right?!

Nordstern · June 16

Yeah, you guys are right. Theres nothing wrong with ww being unkillable by one player if you have just a bit of an idea how to create a pvp build.

Arunei · June 16

Nordstern wrote: »

Yeah, you guys are right. Theres nothing wrong with ww being unkillable by one player if you have just a bit of an idea how to create a pvp build.

You act like unkillable opponents in 1v1s are something people haven't complained about for years.

Also have you tried playing a WW? Sustain is easier on Pack Leader thanks to the Direwolves but it's awful on Berserker. Maybe don't ask for nerfs that will make things harder for PvE? This is the very reason people like me get irritated when people demand nerfs for PvP; they don't give two <self-snip> about how it'll affect PvE as long as they can easily mow it down in PvP.

Nordstern · June 16

Arunei wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

Yeah, you guys are right. Theres nothing wrong with ww being unkillable by one player if you have just a bit of an idea how to create a pvp build.

You act like unkillable opponents in 1v1s are something people haven't complained about for years.

Also have you tried playing a WW? Sustain is easier on Pack Leader thanks to the Direwolves but it's awful on Berserker. Maybe don't ask for nerfs that will make things harder for PvE? This is the very reason people like me get irritated when people demand nerfs for PvP; they don't give two <self-snip> about how it'll affect PvE as long as they can easily mow it down in PvP.

I know people have complained for years. But just because people complain doesnt mean theyre right. Yes, there were always unkillable tanks and yes, they are super annoying and the game needs a hp cap. But these players were never able to deal much damage. Until now.
The argument about pve is understandable but they started to make effects different in pve and pvp so why not do it here as well? How would pve-players be affected if ww had an extra 50% poison damage taken while under the effect of battle spirit?

FurryCandyHearts · June 16

is vengence the new "below 50" zone? even if it is the de facto one...