Guild Mail 3 Days in... Option to opt out please!

DenverRalphy · June 10

I support the need for a guild mail system. But 3 days in and already I'm seeing the downside.

Let's just say that I'm already wishing I had the equivalent of an Ad-Blocker. An option to opt out of receiving them would be nice.

AScarlato · June 10

I only had one guild use this so far, and they decided to use a specific account for guild mail and sent a mail saying we can block it. Hopefully other guilds do something similar if we can't opt out.

I already didn't really care about MOTD updates (can we get rid of those popups?) so don't really want mail all the time either.

Lixiviant · June 10

I'm getting spammed by all my Guilds. Seriously, it's like these people have just discovered social media.

KalevaLaine · June 10

Couldn't agree more. After the update was live for 5 mins, I received several mails from the same guild. Watch stream here, watch stream there. Phew.

Vaqual · June 10

That seems like a people issue. But it is probably not too much effort to create spam folder for guild mail.

HerowynKerowyn · June 10

I actually like this feature and have received two test ingame Guild emails. My only issue with that is I could not reply and confirm that I had received the Guild email.

OsUfi · June 10

I'm in one of the big PC EU guilds, that on the first day sent three mails. No biggie. I'll be leaving if they keep it up. But that must be a nightmare if you're in 5 big guilds that you'd have trouble leaving for some reason.

agelonestar · June 10

That's really interesting.

I run a trade guild on EU and while I really love this new ability to send emails via the native UI, I recognise with great email power comes great do-not-email responsibility! I had figured most guilds would be the same - maybe not!!

My plan is to send a mid-week update email to all guild members - no more than one per week. That seems reasonable to me - but I'd appreciate any views: is that enough, too much, or what?

LootAllTheStuff · June 10

agelonestar wrote: »

That's really interesting.

I run a trade guild on EU and while I really love this new ability to send emails via the native UI, I recognise with great email power comes great do-not-email responsibility! I had figured most guilds would be the same - maybe not!!

My plan is to send a mid-week update email to all guild members - no more than one per week. That seems reasonable to me - but I'd appreciate any views: is that enough, too much, or what?

I guess it would depend on the content of the emails. I'm assuming you would NOT, for example, send a weekly email saying "No guild updates this week!" If it's needed and timely information only, that would be fine with me.

freespirit · June 10

If it means our hard working GM's no longer get social bans for trying to keep us up to date, I am 100% for it.

So far I have received zero guild mails but when I do I will read them and delete them, it's not a major issue for me.

SilverBride · June 10

agelonestar wrote: »

That's really interesting.

I run a trade guild on EU and while I really love this new ability to send emails via the native UI, I recognise with great email power comes great do-not-email responsibility! I had figured most guilds would be the same - maybe not!!

My plan is to send a mid-week update email to all guild members - no more than one per week. That seems reasonable to me - but I'd appreciate any views: is that enough, too much, or what?

For me personally that is too much. Our trade guilds have a sales update channel on Discord and they post updates there. That gives members control over when to look at it or not. Honestly the update info doesn't really help me at all with how I sell so I rarely even glance at it. I'd be unhappy if I kept getting mail about it, too.

Soarora · June 10

agelonestar wrote: »

That's really interesting.

I run a trade guild on EU and while I really love this new ability to send emails via the native UI, I recognise with great email power comes great do-not-email responsibility! I had figured most guilds would be the same - maybe not!!

My plan is to send a mid-week update email to all guild members - no more than one per week. That seems reasonable to me - but I'd appreciate any views: is that enough, too much, or what?

To be honest, I don’t like hearing from trade guilds at all. I don’t join the discord, I have the chat off, I never read the message of the day, and I won’t read the emails most likely. I understand raffles and bidding tend to be a part of trade guild culture so I can’t really be too mad about reminders about it but… I’m antisocial with my trade guilds. I’m there solely to put things in the trader.

hiyde · June 10

Just to play devil's advocate...

I wonder how many of the people who hate Guild Mail are opening / detatching / deleting 5 Hireling Mails per day x however many characters they have?

Or, for those in trade guilds, how many are opening/reading/detaching kiosk sale mails with the gold attached?

But taking 5 seconds to review/delete a Guild Mail to see if the content interests you - that's the line?

That said, it's going to be on Guild Management to use guild mail wisely, especially now that it's so much quicker to send vs. addons. This is something I've been discussing with my guild officers and our rules are shaping up to be something like this:

- The content of the mail must be INTERESTING and OF VALUE (i.e. not sending the same generic mail over and over)
- A limit on mail frequency
- We need to stay on top of managing mails and DELETING them the minute they are out of date (i.e. a raffle is over)

I also think 5 Active mails per guild is way too many (I suggested a limit of 2-3 in the feedback I gave) and 14 day expiry is too long (ideally, let us set it per mail).

Every guild in this game has a purpose, needs ways to communicate and is run by volunteers trying to make sure the guild is delivering on whatever its promised to the members.

Also for every person who's like "I'd rather they post it to Discord", there's another person who's like "I'd rather it be posted in-game" / "I refuse to install Discord" etc. Multiple platforms to reach people however they'll engage, is helpful.

If your guild is being to spammy and/or the e-mails are low-value, let them know. Or find a guild that's a better match.

I for one, am super grateful not to have to stare at 500 mails being sent one by one when I want to send a guild mail.

Danikat · June 10

I'm in 3 guilds and so far I've received 6 mails - 4 of them from the same guild.

They sent 1 the old way to let us know they're switching to guild mail and to check that section in future, 1 via guild mail to let us know they'd switched, 1 to say they'd use it for their event schedule and then 1 with the schedule itself. Personally I think the last 3 could have been combined into one message. Hopefully they'll calm down from now on and it will go back to the previous 1 per week with the event schedule and any other big notifications. (The other two guilds just switched to sending their normal weekly update by guild mail with no prior announcement/s.)

I can definitely see the appeal of players having an opt-out, but I think the difficult part is it would probably need to be all or nothing whereas what I'd want is something like email filtering where I can hide them based on not only who it's from but also what's in it, so I get the unusual messages and ones I know I'll want and can ignore the others.

But for now I think the solution is to talk to your guild, I assume no leader wants to be annoying their members with spam so if it's excessive they'd probably want to know that.

hiyde · June 10

Danikat wrote: »

They sent 1 the old way to let us know they're switching to guild mail and to check that section in future, 1 via guild mail to let us know they'd switched, 1 to say they'd use it for their event schedule and then 1 with the schedule itself. Personally I think the last 3 could have been combined into one message. Hopefully they'll calm down from now on and it will go back to the previous 1 per week with the event schedule and any other big notifications

That's rough. But we have to remember that most people are not professional e-mail marketers. That's a perfect example of "give them feedback". All they needed to do was say "yay new e-mail system" in their first real mail. It's not like anyone needs help finding the new guild mail in their inbox

I'd also suggest everyone give this a little time and see what it settles in to with your guilds. It's a new toy.

valenwood_vegan · June 10

Idk doesn't really bother me, if I was in a guild that was annoying me with the new mail system, I'd like maybe... try talking to them about it. And if that wasn't possible, or wasn't something they were receptive to, I would probably start thinking about whether it's the right guild for me.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · June 11

I like the new Guild Mail System. Id rather do something simple like this than have to start another psn or awful chat room I dont want to be in or attempt to keep up with. Ive received 1 Guild Mail so far and I was happy to see it. It means I didn't have to scroll through the mile long motd or about us page to see what was going on. Anything I can do in game is much better and convenient than having to deal with yet another dischord or who knows what else. Id say its on the GM and their Officers if they're spamming you with this. 5 mails of any kind are not something that would bother me or anyone in my Guilds but I dont think anyone of them would ever have the need to have that many either.

bmnoble · June 11

hiyde wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate...

I wonder how many of the people who hate Guild Mail are opening / detatching / deleting 5 Hireling Mails per day x however many characters they have?

After logging in on each character, you can do that with one or two key presses needing only to wait for the overflow of mails from the current cap to do the second lot, now to open, collect the attached materials and delete the entire lot without reading any of the hireling mails. Even before the mail UI changes, I would use an add on to auto open and delete all those hireling mails.

Now I rarely even bother, its annoying to be flooded with mails even if they come with a benefit.

If guilds go overboard bombarding members with excessive amounts of mail I could easily see people leaving those guilds.

Necrotech_Master · June 11

im in 5 guilds and havent seen a single guild mail, though a couple of those guilds are lower activity guilds to begin with, the 2 higher activity trade guilds havent used it at all yet

if your getting spammed with mails, then might be better to just leave that guild if they are abusing the mail system lol

hiyde · June 11

bmnoble wrote: »

After logging in on each character, you can do that with one or two key presses needing only to wait for the overflow of mails from the current cap to do the second lot, now to open, collect the attached materials and delete the entire lot without reading any of the hireling mails. Even before the mail UI changes, I would use an add on to auto open and delete all those hireling mails.

Now I rarely even bother, its annoying to be flooded with mails even if they come with a benefit.

If guilds go overboard bombarding members with excessive amounts of mail I could easily see people leaving those guilds.

And people, if they otherwise like the guild they're in, could treat guild mails the exact same way.

Or, they could drop the guild as we've both pointed out.

Then the guild will end up with members who don't mind the communication and the unhappy folks will find a guild that communicates less. Win/Win.

There's also that other option that's been discussed: Let your guild know if you feel they are being too spammy. Be part of improving guild communication.

agelonestar · June 12

You raise an interesting point @Soarora & @SilverBride - hope you don't mind if I ask you a follow-up?

The challenge for many trade guilds is getting their membership to participate - that means to actively sell items, to donate, or to engage in lotteries etc (which is the equivalent of donating). We need that, because most mid-size or smaller traders will have to bid more than they raise in default sales taxes if they want to keep their trading spot - and that's a weekly chore!

Sunfire's Sect is billed as a low-effort trader - and I genuinely want our membership to be able to play casually, without sales targets and quotas and all that stress. I also want to be able to run the guild without having to spend every single day doing guild admin!

That said, I need a degree of engagement or the guild doesn't work - and I know for a fact that when I push for engagement, engagement goes up.

What would you prefer as a means to have guild members "participate" given that context?

Gabriel_H · June 12

5 guilds, 0 mail. There is already an opt-out in game for guild mail.

Go to Guild Menu, Select the Guild, Press X

Soarora · June 12

agelonestar wrote: »

You raise an interesting point @Soarora & @SilverBride - hope you don't mind if I ask you a follow-up?

The challenge for many trade guilds is getting their membership to participate - that means to actively sell items, to donate, or to engage in lotteries etc (which is the equivalent of donating). We need that, because most mid-size or smaller traders will have to bid more than they raise in default sales taxes if they want to keep their trading spot - and that's a weekly chore!

Sunfire's Sect is billed as a low-effort trader - and I genuinely want our membership to be able to play casually, without sales targets and quotas and all that stress. I also want to be able to run the guild without having to spend every single day doing guild admin!

That said, I need a degree of engagement or the guild doesn't work - and I know for a fact that when I push for engagement, engagement goes up.

What would you prefer as a means to have guild members "participate" given that context?

I’m not really opposed to the activities, I know they’re important. I do think the guild mail system would be more effective than changing the message of the day and perhaps it could get me to participate, but unsure.

SilverBride · June 12

agelonestar wrote: »

You raise an interesting point @Soarora & @SilverBride - hope you don't mind if I ask you a follow-up?

The challenge for many trade guilds is getting their membership to participate - that means to actively sell items, to donate, or to engage in lotteries etc (which is the equivalent of donating). We need that, because most mid-size or smaller traders will have to bid more than they raise in default sales taxes if they want to keep their trading spot - and that's a weekly chore!

Sunfire's Sect is billed as a low-effort trader - and I genuinely want our membership to be able to play casually, without sales targets and quotas and all that stress. I also want to be able to run the guild without having to spend every single day doing guild admin!

That said, I need a degree of engagement or the guild doesn't work - and I know for a fact that when I push for engagement, engagement goes up.

What would you prefer as a means to have guild members "participate" given that context?

Unfortunately there are a lot of players that join trading guilds then barely sell or participate in anything. I understand that they need a nudge here and there. But as a member that actively sells a minimum of 1m a week and donates every week, too I don't need to receive these mails.

We have Discord channels for sales updates and the lottery and donation requests but I know a lot of members won't go check for updates so a mail would reach them then.

Our guild ranks are based on our sales and donations so maybe only send the nudge mails to those in lower ranks?

DoofusMax · June 12

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I support the need for a guild mail system. But 3 days in and already I'm seeing the downside.

Let's just say that I'm already wishing I had the equivalent of an Ad-Blocker. An option to opt out of receiving them would be nice.

Sounds like a guild issue to me. I belong to two guilds. One does one mail per week for guild events. The other sent a mail saying "look at the new feature!" and then nothing. That second one was me, btw; there's nothing going on that the MOTD can't handle. The first is a very large guild (consistently runs 450+ members) and the GM is a saint. Two guilds on the EU side of things, too, and silence from both. Mail doesn't clutter the inbox if it never gets sent in the first place.

Destai · June 12

I think any communications should be opt-in. It's way too easy to land in some over-stimulating state with them. Just considering even logging - I'm already greeted MOTDs, Crown Store pop-ups, Golden Pursuits, Tomes (because someone decided to have a daily login task), hireling mails. It gets to a point where my first moments of gameplay are closing windows instead of immersion. That's not fun, IMO.

Now, I'm in 3 guilds. One's a bit aggressive in their MOTD updates. Every time I look, it's nothing of consequence. I think they tested one Guild Mail, and that's been it. But, if it becomes more than one-off mails, I'm absolutely leaving that guild. I'm really at a point where I want guilds to be social only. No raffles, auctions, and other things that fill up my chat window. No MOTDs, no mails. Just people talking like normal.

AScarlato · June 12

hiyde wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate...

I wonder how many of the people who hate Guild Mail are opening / detatching / deleting 5 Hireling Mails per day x however many characters they have?

My writ crafting mod already opens and deletes all my hireling mails without needing to do anything other than click on the mail icon once a day.

hiyde · June 12

AScarlato wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate...

I wonder how many of the people who hate Guild Mail are opening / detatching / deleting 5 Hireling Mails per day x however many characters they have?

My writ crafting mod already opens and deletes all my hireling mails without needing to do anything other than click on the mail icon once a day.

I'm aware of that addon and use it myself. Not everyone uses it. I also mentioned kiosk sales mails and there are other types of system mail we all deal with. But communication from the volunteers running your guild is the line?

Just curious, how many guilds are you in and how many mails have you had to deal with since this launched?

This is a really helpful tool for guilds that want to communicate their activities. For those that don't want to be in a guild that communicates their activites - and that annoyance outweighs the other benefits you are receiving - then find a guild that is a better match to your preferences. There are plenty of "no" (raffles/dues/hype/etc) laid back guilds out there.