The Thing About Vengeance....

JohnRingo · June 11

For context, I am a 10 + year ESO PvP oriented player. Through all of Grey Host's ups and downs over the years, this is where I live and have lived for quite a long time. That said, I have recognized that clearly we must introduce new players into Cyrodil PvP for it to survive or it will most certainly fail over the long term. I was hoping that the Vengeance experiment might result in a training ground for serious PvP oriented players (a boot camp if you will). However, the current Vengeance rule set is so massively different than the current Grey Host rule set that it renders Vengeance as unhelpful as a building block to success in Cyrodil. Big miss here, I believe. End game PvP players need Vengeance to survive. Not the opposite.

Bernz007 · June 11

I started playing about 8 years ago myself and it took me about a year before I could hold my own in pvp. Today's crowd coming into the game expects to be able do pvp like they do pve, with little effort and casually. Just look at the release of Night Market...the first day people were crying about not being able to survive because their dungeon dps build wouldn't allow them to survive the first pack of mobs solo.

Honestly, most of the newer players from the past few years aren't cut out for Cyrodiil. They don't take time to understand how things work and why they do. If there isn't someone holding their hand for them or a YouTube video showing them exactly what to do, they become frustrated. You have to have thick skin to play pvp, with all the egos you encounter (even within your own alliance). You also have to learn how to block, which most do not know how to do.

Unless ZoS does a 180 from it's current pvp efforts, end game PvP players just need to enjoy the remaining time left in this game as much as they can before it becomes to unbearable and unrecognizable (Vengeance) to play anymore.

Luneca · June 11

Where did ZOS state that the goal of that campaign was to teach anyone PvP?

ZOS cannot teach anyone PvP when low level BGs are infested with high level players with their alts in legendary gear running DK and WW builds that are impossible for any new player to seriously oppose. That's the experience happening because ZOS cannot balance the game at the top, the bottom suffers even harder.

Seriously, go to a low level BG -- if the queue even pops -- and experience it yourself in blue gear what happens when even one WW exists on the other side this patch. Experience what happens when people are in legendary gear at low level. There is no possiblity of winning and you ultimately don't matter. And when that happens people get turned off and don't come back.

But even at CP160 the BGs are filling up with teams of WWs and DKs and the same thing happens unless you have PvP gods on your side. Which is why BGs are also dead at the higher level.

If I want to PvP in a lopsided fashion, I can just go to Greyhost and fight a ball group. Even the ballgroup isn't as bad as being outnumbered in Vengeance OR fighting a team of WWs (that have more power than a ball group in the context of BGs , go figure).

The development team doesn't understand what makes a game fun and why anyone would play it. That's what it seems like to me. They don't understand that no matter what game we are playing, EVERYONE WANTS TO MATTER AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE ON THE WORLD THEY ARE IN or at least have the potential to do so.

Since that's not the case in a majority of PvP outside of Grey Host, that's why it's dead. And then in Grey Host, the same players will be greeted by ball groups, werewolves, DKs, and then go well, why am I even here if no matter what I do the outcome is the same?

Poor balancing at every level has consequences, and the consequence is that it will cause players to leave and do something else. But don't worry, they'll address everyone's balance concerns eventually . But who knows how much would be lost by then or if it will ever happen. The solution is in a far, far, uncertain future with no information or path to it known.

Sounds like a great plan...