albertberku wrote: »

If only there are some players, that spend quite a lot of time in Cyrodiil, has knowledge about the builds and the game. And most importantly shares the arguments with videos, combat logs, calculations and everything readily available for everyone to see with their own eyes.

Oh wait, i am doing that already in this thread actually... ??

If you are in PC EU, tell me your usernames and i will be glad to help you to experience the range ganking. And i will post a clip of it here for everyone to see : )

Yea your gameplay footage has some nice lightning mage RP elements to it, but if you’re playing a pure magsorc without even running Rallying Cry, then you probably shouldn’t be presenting yourself as an authority on Cyrodiil theorycrafting.

Again, look inward. You are getting one tapped by a meta gank build while already being pressured, debuffed, and hit by multiple players in one clip, and you’re not even full hp on the other clip, all while running what is essentially a 2016-era setup in modern Cyrodiil. The game has changed massively over the years. If you refuse to adapt your build, your mitigation, your HP pool, your shielding, your crit resistance, or even acknowledge the current meta, then of course you are going to explode to pulse ganker.

That does not automatically mean the build is unbeatable or fundamentally broken, even if it is ovetuned. It means you are severely behind the current state of PvP.

albertberku wrote: »

You want to run Pure Magsorc with Rallying Cry? And how are you going to proc your Rallying Cry with your 30% crit chance and one burst heal skill on the backbar? I am sure your opponent will just stop and wait for you to cast 3 - 4 heals back to back during the last 5 seconds refresh period of Rallying Cry so that it procs.

In the latest video i am using Esometric Greaves. Direct damage reduction i have is much higher than Rallying Cry, we are talking about at least 20% better for that situation. Should i do the math for you or will you find it out yourself?

First, do not play a pure magsorc in modern Cyrodiil and then act surprised when you explode to a subclassed gank.

Second, yes, slot Vigor. Between Crit Surge and Vigor, you are almost guaranteed to proc Rallying Cry within 1–2 backbar GCDs. And if you are somehow still struggling to proc one of the easiest and strongest defensive sets in the game, then front bar Rallying Cry and use the free Major Prophecy mages light gives you to help proc it even more consistently.

You are calling the set “hard to proc” while playing a class that literally gets Minor Prophecy from one of its core class lines. At that point, it genuinely becomes a skill/build issue rather than a balance issue.

albertberku wrote: »

You want to run Pure Magsorc with Rallying Cry? And how are you going to proc your Rallying Cry with your 30% crit chance and one burst heal skill on the backbar? I am sure your opponent will just stop and wait for you to cast 3 - 4 heals back to back during the last 5 seconds refresh period of Rallying Cry so that it procs.

In the latest video i am using Esometric Greaves. #27 in this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8473913/#Comment_8473913

Direct damage reduction i have is much higher than Rallying Cry, we are talking about at least 20% better for that situation. Should i do the math for you or will you find it out yourself?

BigPlays420 wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

You want to run Pure Magsorc with Rallying Cry? And how are you going to proc your Rallying Cry with your 30% crit chance and one burst heal skill on the backbar? I am sure your opponent will just stop and wait for you to cast 3 - 4 heals back to back during the last 5 seconds refresh period of Rallying Cry so that it procs.

In the latest video i am using Esometric Greaves. Direct damage reduction i have is much higher than Rallying Cry, we are talking about at least 20% better for that situation. Should i do the math for you or will you find it out yourself?

First, do not play a pure magsorc in modern Cyrodiil and then act surprised when you explode to a subclassed gank.

Second, yes, slot Vigor. Between Crit Surge and Vigor, you are almost guaranteed to proc Rallying Cry within 1–2 backbar GCDs. And if you are somehow still struggling to proc one of the easiest and strongest defensive sets in the game, then front bar Rallying Cry and use the free Major Prophecy mages light gives you to help proc it even more consistently.

You are calling the set “hard to proc” while playing a class that literally gets Minor Prophecy from one of its core class lines. At that point, it genuinely becomes a skill/build issue rather than a balance issue.

Exactly what Big Plays said, and brother, you have 24k HP in that clip, which only further reinforces the point that you are completely unprepared for modern Cyrodiil and do not understand current PvP build requirements.

albertberku wrote: »

I am not sure if you guys actually have eyes. If you watch the video, you see i am shielded. And if you read the comments i made, they tell you i have 24k hp + 15k shield, which sits at 40k hp in total.

Why is it so hard to just read and watch?

Any other questions?

No don't worry I saw your shield, 24khp on backbar 23khp on frontbar. Nice build bud!

You have 25k resists, 2k crit resist, and 23k HP. Even with Esoteric, that is nowhere near enough for modern Cyrodiil survivability standards. Like Awesome said earlier, yes, the gank is strong, but you are doing absolutely nothing to help yourself with the builds you are putting together.

Try things like triple Protective, slotting arguably the strongest HoT in the game which also conveniently gives Minor Resolve, running the strongest defensive set in PvP, bumping your HP up to at least 30k+, and finally subclassing instead of insisting on some pure 2016 magsorc fantasy build.

After you actually modernize your build and defensive layers, then come back and tell me whether you are still getting “1 tapped” by a single pulse ganker while fully buffed.

Or don't. I already know the answer.

Any more comments, questions, build suggestions, lessons about ESO PvP builds?

Feel free to do the math together with me. There has been enough "trust me bro" comments. Lets just put everything on paper and find out.

albertberku wrote: »

Any more comments, questions, build suggestions, lessons about ESO PvP builds?

Feel free to do the math together with me. There has been enough "trust me bro" comments. Lets just put everything on paper and find out.

Your little math squabbles are meaningless because you clearly do not understand how damage is actually calculated in ESO. The damage equations are far more complex than the kindergarten-level napkin math you are using to justify these builds.

Put together an actual modern meta build, fully buff yourself, and then show me a clip of a single Pulse ganker one-shotting you in one GCD.

Again, it won’t happen. I am speaking from experience; you are speaking from ignorance.

albertberku wrote: »

I literally know how it is calculated and i literally calculated it. And i know the stats of a pulse ganker more or less since i talk with them and i put up myself some builds together.

Discussions happen like that usually: There are arguments and there are counterarguments. There are evidences and there are proofs. If my math is wrong (which i believe is not) you tell me where i made the mistake and we sort it out together to find out.

But instead you just plain insult me. It is impossible to have a discussion with you. So, for my own sanity i am leaving this discussion for now.

I am leaving my objective calculations, video, combat log proofs here and you left your "trust me bro" s. So i believe there is plenty of information in this thread by now. I have been already giving too much of my time for a community of people with this kind of mindset.

@albertberku you keep saying you "literally know how it's calculated" so let's actually look at what you posted, because none of it matches the formula ESO actually uses.

You wrote "Crit Direct Damage Reduction: 4k ≈ 75%." That's not a thing. Critical Resistance doesn't reduce direct damage — it reduces the attacker's crit bonus, and the conversion is 66 Crit Resist per 1%. So 4,000 ÷ 66 is 60.6%, not 75%. Your other build uses 2k crit resist and you wrote 35%; the real number is 30.3%. You invented a conversion rate and then used it twice, which is impressive consistency but also why your numbers don't agree with the game.
Then there's Battle Spirit. The whole premise of your post is "when an ability hits with Battle Spirit active." Battle Spirit is a multiplicative ~44% damage reduction that applies to every hit in PvP. It's not optional, it's not situational, it's literally the thing your post claims to be modeling. You didn't put it in the equation anywhere. You ran a 60k tooltip straight through resistance and called it PvP damage. That's a PvE calculation.

The funniest part is that you clearly know mitigation stacks multiplicatively, because you used the multiplicative formula on your own build — 25% resistance plus 37.5% Esoteric gives you 52.5%, which is 1 − (0.75)(0.625). Correct. Then on the other build you used one source, stopped, and called that the total. That's not how the math works and you know it's not how the math works, because you used the correct version three lines earlier. Every real PvP build runs Major Protection, Minor Protection, heavy armor passives, CP Ironclad and assorted set bonuses, all multiplicative with resistance. You included those layers on the build you wanted to win and excluded them on the build you wanted to lose. That's not theorycraft, that's picking a result and reverse-engineering the arithmetic.

The actual formula, since apparently it needs writing down: final damage equals tooltip, times Battle Spirit, times (1 + crit chance × crit modifier) where the crit modifier is 0.50 + crit buffs − (crit resist / 66 / 100), times the product of (1 − x) for every mitigation source on the target. Resistance is (resist − pen) / 33,000 × 50%, capped at 50%. None of that is controversial. UESP, ESO Academy, the official forum mitigation megathread and every theorycrafter you've ever read use this structure.

So when you say "tell me where the mistake is" — the mistake is that three of the four key terms in your calculation are either wrong or missing. Wrong crit resist conversion, no Battle Spirit, inconsistent mitigation stacking. Fix those and you don't have a build comparison anymore, you have a different post. Until you do, "I literally calculated it" reads as "I literally got the formula wrong with confidence," which is a worse position than the trust-me-bros you're complaining about.

I'm done arguing here. You do not have the knowledge or experience to claim your build should be able to survive a one shot from a pulse ganker any better than a real meta build.

If anyone wants to see how complex the damage calculations in this game really are simply go to UESP.

@albertberku My guy, the answer is simple. Your build isn’t good enough to stand up to gankers. You can present all the numbers to justify it that you want, but at the end of the day, they aren’t high enough. You need more to survive.

Ranged dps builds get 2-shot, at best, by the pulse gank before signet. It used to be easier to punish a pulse gank build. Now it's a lot worse since you don't have the GCD to cleanse. Even Null Arca, the meta direct damage ranged proc set, requires 1.5 seconds to fire at minimum, and usually fires after 2-3. If you spend a GCD to heal or dot someone up and build null arca stacks, you're just dead in the next skill. The only build that survives is a melee brawler, the only ranged counter is a tanky necro/dk ranged pressure build. Plars, nb, arc, and sorc are dead on arrival because they don't have innate mitigation.

People thought jesus beam's wonky line of sight was bad. Try to LOS a 43 meter skill, lol. Anyway, live pvp will be a joke in u50 with signet providing dot pressure and sorc class mastery providing burst, resulting in classes that bring a gun to a knife fight. Vengeance will actually be more fun.

This is an interesting thread.
1) I agree ranged ganking has gotten way too powerful. one shots that can do 40k+ damage with no counterplay.
2) Death recaps are completely unreliable. The numbers are often not correct and they don't show the whole story
3) CMx : you need to show the log with the timestamps, not just the recap. That's how you relly know what is going on. There is a setting in the log where you can see stat changes, Often I've found out from this that my resists were lower than expected due to debuffs etc.
4) In the first video, there were at least 4 ep around plus guards. You need the log to prove that all the damage came from one player. The video, the death recap are not reliable
5) In the second video, the stamina was less than 50%. Esoteric greaves only work when your stamina is over 50%. Thus you are a sitting duck in that video
6) in the video posted to another thread, again you need the log not just the recap , to see how much damage was done
7) In the first video, it looks like the shield dropped right before you were ganked, but I don't know how to prove this without detailed logs
8) Maybe someone can tell me how you know the size of a cast shield. The tooltips are unreliable
9) in the linked video, you named the player and also showed yourself tbagging them, this might be a violation of TOS, you should delete the opposing players name and probably not show yourself tbagging