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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861

Assassinate the Emperor

WhitePawPrints
WhitePawPrints
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This is some feedback I submitted through the game. I will remove names in this document for privacy reasons, but I think this type of mission would be possible.

I wrote this based on the fact that I was displeased when my faction took one of the lower population Campaigns. The guild that conquered the map expressed high elitists attitude toward other groups and players in general. This made PVE even annoying in this Campaign.

Coming from the ******* campaign in Cyrodil I have witnessed quite a lot of activity for the low-population campaign. First joining I saw that the Dominion only held one keep. With the help of my group commander, a group of four of us took a keep on our own. With that momentum shift, in the next few days we fought with the Daggerfall over keeps in a bloody war of tug-of-war battle that slowly gained allied support from players that had previously migrated to other Campaigns. In one day, several battles placed six keeps under the control of the Dominion. The actions of my group commander even prompted the previous Empress to return and fight, taking her group against the Pact while we continued against the Covenant.

All in the while, there was another group that refused to work with any groups that night but we had a good assault going.

Next time I logged on we had suffered some defeats but still held most of our own keeps. The bloody battles of tug-of-war continued until the middle of April when the Dominion claimed Emperorship. Many were inspired to return to claim the Elder Scrolls, but it quickly became realized that the current Emperor refused to answer any group requests, refused to work with other groups, claimed all credit for taking Cyrodil and blamed other groups for losing keeps. This is the same group that had refused to cooperate when we had gained momentum, and consequently gained the disfavor of ALL group commanders. Since then my group commander and many others have left the campaign.

The attitude from the remaining group is evident when straggler players join the campaign. Group request are ignored, and when small groups form, they try to follow the main group only to receive hostility. During assaults, enemy NPC's that respawn are not cleared out for the smaller group; during transition, the large group ignores request for movement information; and has gone as far to split up to lose the straggler groups. During the straggler's deaths, they are not revived while the group revives their own members. Proof of this elitist attitude is clear through the zone chat with comments resembling "Hold our beer. We got this." during assaults on enemy keeps. This very hostile attitude has nearly turned this campaign into an empty wasteland. Why the other factions have left as well? I'm not sure.

Emperor ****** of the ******* campaign has turned it into an empty wasteland. No other commander supports ******.

Tamriel hasn't been supportive of many Emperors throughout history up to the fourth era when I had personally assassinated the Emperor in the harbor of Solitude. Seeing as how the Emperor of my home Campaign has created many enemies, among the Covenant and the Pact and even the Dominion, an assassination and dethroning option would be very satisfying.

A quest to remove the current Emperor and his or her successors, to place a supported Emperor would revive these campaigns that suffer from elitist ass Emperors. A quest like that would be difficult to balance, but to place the interest of most players in the campaign first there is a plausible way.

It'd be a quest that'd require activation through support of the faction claiming Emperorship. The idea would require for NPC commanders to be placed inside at least the six keeps around Cyrodil. Those NPC commanders would have to be persuaded (through some sort of sub quest) on a percentage base that would not guarantee success. This NPC Commander could also be assassinated but runs a much higher risk of exposure of the plot to assassinate the Emperor.

Other factions can possibly activate a quest that would show their interest in the assassination of the Emperor as well. This would be a little more tricky to balance if not impossible. Another faction group can join in the final fight against the Emperor maybe? Not likely other factions would support the assassination of one Emperor to just place another opposing faction member as Emperor.

If full support of the six keeps around Cyrodil, an assassination attempt can be made against the Emperor, when he or she is online. If the Emperor is killed at by success of this quest, then the Emperorship will go to the next successor, unless that player is killed defending the Emperor; or is in the same group? Guild?

This theory would be very simple to accomplish though, if only a few people disliked the Emperor so there would have to be a balance quest to cancel it out. Some sort of unravelling the plot quest that would investigate possible conspiracy. Visiting the six keeps around Cyrodil and talking with the NPC commanders and through dialogue of the Dragon Age: Origins scale, unravel the plot negating all effort of the assassins and putting a long cool down on reactivating the quest.

This would allow small supporter groups to neglect investigations that would lead to the downfall of the Emperor, while larger groups could easily investigate and keep the supported Emperor on the throne.

This would likely cause for the Emperor and his small guild or group to leave the campaign but they'd likely join another. Point would be to remove unsupported Emperors from the throne and allow for larger groups to stay in the campaigns.

Obviously, this idea would come with severe balance issues and flaws that would have to be worked out but it'd be start.
  • maholi
    maholi
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    It seems to me that you are trying to dictate how people play. They don't have to group with people they don't want to and that seems to make you upset and I am not sure why. There is no benefit from grouping with other players. In fact you are then sharing your AP points with people who may not be carrying their weight.
    There are also other tactical reasons for ditching the large group(s).
    If you want to dethrone the Emperor, get busy and earn those AP points.
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    maholi wrote: »
    It seems to me that you are trying to dictate how people play. They don't have to group with people they don't want to and that seems to make you upset and I am not sure why. There is no benefit from grouping with other players. In fact you are then sharing your AP points with people who may not be carrying their weight.
    There are also other tactical reasons for ditching the large group(s).
    If you want to dethrone the Emperor, get busy and earn those AP points.

    Yes, I want to dictate how people play. I want everyone to lose so I could win. That is exactly what I want. Why didn't I just post "Zenimax make me Emperor now!"? Brilliant!

    Read the post. I never said I was in a group that I disliked. I said the exact opposite in fact. I said the elitist group was not inviting people and compromising their ability to gain Alliance Points. And your method of dethroning an Emperor is... grinding. . . Yay... So fun... Whoo... -_-

    Don't post unless you've read the original post otherwise you're just spamming. I don't have time for boring grinding or repeating myself.
  • joshisanonymous
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    I actually like this idea a lot, although this sort of meta-game already exists as I've seen some, who have enough points to be Emperor, promote that their alliance allows the other alliances to dethrone their own Emperor so this can happen. In that sense, maybe it's not needed and would add too many balancing difficulties. But I generally like the potential for in-fighting in this game and the impact that can have on waging an effective war. Successful alliances not only need good players, they need players that can communicate and get along agreeably with their Emperor.

    @maholi It doesn't seem like the complaint is about not grouping, but about being actively dismissive and uncooperative. If the group with the Emperor can handle something on their own and don't want random people giving away positions and such, that's understandable, but they should maybe communicate that and direct people to other objectives.
    Fedrals: PC / NA / EP / NB

  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    I actually like this idea a lot, although this sort of meta-game already exists as I've seen some, who have enough points to be Emperor, promote that their alliance allows the other alliances to dethrone their own Emperor so this can happen. In that sense, maybe it's not needed and would add too many balancing difficulties. But I generally like the potential for in-fighting in this game and the impact that can have on waging an effective war. Successful alliances not only need good players, they need players that can communicate and get along agreeably with their Emperor.

    I have thought of that, allow the other alliances to take over. I stopped being active once the current Emperor gained enough points to become Emperor, but it seemed the other alliances quit too. Not sure why they left the campaign.

    In fighting is always fun though so I thought that this idea would work, and be incredibly lore friendly. All Elder Scroll games have a lot of in-fighting, betrayal and the like. ESO has probably the most; Dominion has the High Elves causing trouble, the Pact has... so much trouble with each other and the Covenant... well they have Orcs. : P (I haven't played Covenant so I'm not sure about their in fighting yet.) In fighting just works well : )
    Edited by WhitePawPrints on 14 May 2014 20:10
  • maholi
    maholi
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    OP: You stated: "but it quickly became realized that the current Emperor refused to answer any group requests, refused to work with other groups..."

    So you do want to dictate how they play. You want them to answer group requests and work with other groups. They want to play with their friends and/or alone. Again, there is no benefit from grouping with other players. And grouping with a random pug can be trying at best.
    Also OP: Just because I disagree with you does not make my post spam.
  • ChairGraveyard
    ChairGraveyard
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    It's possible for the Emperor to abdicate - if they didn't want to lead their alliance they should have done so.
  • maholi
    maholi
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    I personally think the larger guilds are better equipped to lead the larger attacks.
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    maholi wrote: »
    Also OP: Just because I disagree with you does not make my post spam.

    I was waiting for that. Anything else original you have to say? I called your post spam because you said nothing constructive. You're completely misunderstanding my point of adding an elaborate quest, and then going on to think that I'm claiming Zenimax should force players to play with people that they don't like, like an elitist Emperor and his guild... Huh...
    maholi wrote: »
    OP: You stated: "but it quickly became realized that the current Emperor refused to answer any group requests, refused to work with other groups..."

    So you do want to dictate how they play. You want them to answer group requests and work with other groups. They want to play with their friends and/or alone. Again, there is no benefit from grouping with other players. And grouping with a random pug can be trying at best.

    You are right, I should have suggested to force groups to accept request. They shouldn't have a choice in the matter! Why stop there? Everyone should listen to me all the time too! ... Wait...

    Sarcasm aside, the most this would enforce is a little cooperation. For a few short sentences to be typed over the Zone chat. If that.

    Unless that's dictating how people play. I'm sure players want to play how they want, they want to be elitists asses then that is their choice. I want to play the game alone sometimes, with a friend sometimes which is what... I don't know, all of PVE is. Other times I want to play with other players, like my guilds and conquer Cyrodil so I do. Sometimes we pick up stragglers, and if they don't listen, we kick them from the group. Sometimes I play in a full group, so my group will announce it if Zone chat is getting lots of request (so other groups can form). Sometimes I play when their are multiple groups so I ask what their plans are and if they need support. When we're not engaging in PVP, we let the other groups know to not count on our support because we're busy. Sometimes I don't want to play so I take a break. Sometimes I want to play again so I turn on Elder Scrolls Online. Sometimes I want to play a game that'll progress to have interesting and elaborate quest systems, but I get people dictating how I want to play by posting spam because they don't understand the comment and just want to *** about how their rights are being violated by having a suggestion posted that they disagree with... Huh...
    Edited by WhitePawPrints on 14 May 2014 20:56
  • Infraction
    Infraction
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    It does come across like you expect them to lead some large zerg and they don't want to.
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    This post is not about what I expect players or guilds to do. I'm not posting for the blatant removal of a player's status of Emperorship.

    This post is a suggestion to add a quest line to remove an Emperor if they have lost so much support of their faction that the opposers will have the capability to literally revolt and overthrown their own Emperor.

    Nothing to do with grouping, nothing to do with guilds. An Emperor can run around solo for the entire time for all that I care.

    Now stop pretending to be psychologists and guessing my motives, because how I feel, how you feel don't mean a thing. Post in response to the suggestion. If you dislike it then point out one of the many flaws in it and discuss it.
    Edited by WhitePawPrints on 14 May 2014 21:18
  • Dekkameron
    Dekkameron
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    An Emperor acting like a tool? This cannot be!

    Such a thing has never been heard of!
    - Veteran Combat Librarian -
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    Dekkameron wrote: »
    An Emperor acting like a tool? This cannot be!

    Such a thing has never been heard of!

    Neither has such a thing called assassination been heard of.
  • Infraction
    Infraction
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    This post is not about what I expect players or guilds to do. I'm not posting for the blatant removal of a player's status of Emperorship.

    This post is a suggestion to add a quest line to remove an Emperor if they have lost so much support of their faction that the opposers will have the capability to literally revolt and overthrown their own Emperor.

    Nothing to do with grouping, nothing to do with guilds. An Emperor can run around solo for the entire time for all that I care.

    Now stop pretending to be psychologists and guessing my motives, because how I feel, how you feel don't mean a thing. Post in response to the suggestion. If you dislike it then point out one of the many flaws in it and discuss it.

    Big guild decides they just don't want someone having emperor and go through the process of having them removed due to sheer numbers and just because.

    You don't see the potential for exploiting your mechanic?

  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    Infraction wrote: »
    Big guild decides they just don't want someone having emperor and go through the process of having them removed due to sheer numbers and just because.

    You don't see the potential for exploiting your mechanic?

    I see lots of flaws, and that is the point of having a public thread. To discuss it! That is the reason for Internet forums, believe it or not.

    My original post already has a counter measures to avoid having Emperors with support removed.
  • Cheapshot
    Cheapshot
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    DC + EP we did a full cooridinated attack and took out the emperor and crowned one. AD owned every keep on my server for 2 weeks will post video and an announcement later.

    *** OFF SKULLCRUSHER AD
  • JosephChip
    JosephChip
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    Leaving behind the issues you had with that guild and emperor, I believe your suggestion is valid. The game would benefit a lot from some more complex mechanics regarding emperors. I like the assassination idea. It could be introduced in the game in the form of a "military coup" exactly like used to happen in imperial Rome. Since all the power is the hands of the army here too. It would be an event requiring the participation of most of the pvp population of an alliance, making it virtually impossible for a single guild to exploit it. And I am talking about a huge event that would pop up on everyone's screen and require a certain number of participants. If requirements are met the emperor could decide to submit and lose his throne, or trying to actively fight it. Choosing the latter would result in the birth of a civil war completely internal to the emperor faction. Which makes things even harder for the dominating faction if this happens. Then they would need to figure out the rules for such a war. What are the goal objectives to capture and hold. The few emperor's followers left would likely need to defend specific locations for a certain period of time.
    It's different from an assassination but it just popped to my mind.
  • NordJitsu
    NordJitsu
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    This Emperor is still a boon to your Alliance since your character gets bonuses just for being in the same faction.

    If they aren't willing to work with you, who cares? They do sound like jerks, but jerks happen. Its the internet.


    I'm concerned about any idea that allows players to dethrone and Emperor, who has earned his title through hours of play, could be a good system. Its turns things into a popularity contest which opens itself up to trolling.

    What if someone from your small close nit guild gets Emperor but the giant mega guild on your campaign decides to dethrone him because he's not one of theirs?

    Idk, I kinda like the sentiment of where you're going, but I'm not sure its workable.

    Emperorship DOES need some changes though. My preferred change would be to make the leaderboard dependent on a battery of skill based metrics (kill death ratio, damage taken vs. damage recieved, amount of healing done, number of keeps defended, number of keeps taken, number of allies revived, ect. ect.) rather than the current Alliance Point system.

    Currently, the Emperor is just the one with the most play time and the best grinding strategies.
    @NordJitsu - Guild Master (Main Character = Hlaalu Idas)
    GREAT HOUSE HLAALU
  • gameswithaspoon
    gameswithaspoon
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    I've seen two other ways to become Emperor: exploiting and flat out paying for one. $70,000 in gold was the market price, last I heard.

    This might be an interesting way to have the Imperial faction itself ( the developers ) push back. They could reward an Emperor they thought was doing a particularly good job with an assassination attempt, balanced with a nice reward for those who survived.
    Spoon-no-Soup Former Emperor Argonian Templar AD BWB
    Spoon-ware-Soup Former Emperor Argonian Stamplar AD Bahlokdaan
    Guild Leader Imperium of the Eagle Ravenwatch NA-PC
    Takes Drive-Thru Orders for This is a Wendy's.
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    NordJitsu wrote: »
    This Emperor is still a boon to your Alliance since your character gets bonuses just for being in the same faction.

    If they aren't willing to work with you, who cares? They do sound like jerks, but jerks happen. Its the internet.


    I'm concerned about any idea that allows players to dethrone and Emperor, who has earned his title through hours of play, could be a good system. Its turns things into a popularity contest which opens itself up to trolling.

    What if someone from your small close nit guild gets Emperor but the giant mega guild on your campaign decides to dethrone him because he's not one of theirs?

    Idk, I kinda like the sentiment of where you're going, but I'm not sure its workable.

    Emperorship DOES need some changes though. My preferred change would be to make the leaderboard dependent on a battery of skill based metrics (kill death ratio, damage taken vs. damage recieved, amount of healing done, number of keeps defended, number of keeps taken, number of allies revived, ect. ect.) rather than the current Alliance Point system.

    Currently, the Emperor is just the one with the most play time and the best grinding strategies.

    Those are actually valid concerns. Thank you! The idea would be very difficult to make it actually work in the game, for reasons that you listed. As the user above you mentioned, this kind of system would have to be very large and involve lots of players to help avoid having more than just one guild being able to dictate that power. My idea was to have the discovery of a coup be easy to unravel that would set off a cooldown, disabling another coup from starting for X days. But that has its own problems of making this entire idea useless if its so easy to negate it.

    And I do agree, I think grinding is the worst way to reward someone by making them Emperor. Most of us have other things to do than to play Elder Scrolls Online. (I can't think of anything right now, but I'm sure there is something else to do than Elder Scrolls Online...) It's so easy for an Emperor to lose their spot if they have a job.
  • Infraction
    Infraction
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    NordJitsu wrote: »
    This Emperor is still a boon to your Alliance since your character gets bonuses just for being in the same faction.

    If they aren't willing to work with you, who cares? They do sound like jerks, but jerks happen. Its the internet.


    I'm concerned about any idea that allows players to dethrone and Emperor, who has earned his title through hours of play, could be a good system. Its turns things into a popularity contest which opens itself up to trolling.

    What if someone from your small close nit guild gets Emperor but the giant mega guild on your campaign decides to dethrone him because he's not one of theirs?

    Idk, I kinda like the sentiment of where you're going, but I'm not sure its workable.

    Emperorship DOES need some changes though. My preferred change would be to make the leaderboard dependent on a battery of skill based metrics (kill death ratio, damage taken vs. damage recieved, amount of healing done, number of keeps defended, number of keeps taken, number of allies revived, ect. ect.) rather than the current Alliance Point system.

    Currently, the Emperor is just the one with the most play time and the best grinding strategies.

    Those are actually valid concerns. Thank you! The idea would be very difficult to make it actually work in the game, for reasons that you listed. As the user above you mentioned, this kind of system would have to be very large and involve lots of players to help avoid having more than just one guild being able to dictate that power. My idea was to have the discovery of a coup be easy to unravel that would set off a cooldown, disabling another coup from starting for X days. But that has its own problems of making this entire idea useless if its so easy to negate it.

    And I do agree, I think grinding is the worst way to reward someone by making them Emperor. Most of us have other things to do than to play Elder Scrolls Online. (I can't think of anything right now, but I'm sure there is something else to do than Elder Scrolls Online...) It's so easy for an Emperor to lose their spot if they have a job.

    The complexity of what you want to do would require a ton of manpower. They have yet to get a good handle on bug fixing and network issues. I don't have faith yet that they can pull something this complex off at this time.

    I'm still playing and having fun but what you are asking for doesn't seem like it can be pulled off withou exposing some other major design flaws.
    Edited by Infraction on 15 May 2014 16:58
  • WhitePawPrints
    WhitePawPrints
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    Infraction wrote: »
    Those are actually valid concerns. Thank you! The idea would be very difficult to make it actually work in the game, for reasons that you listed. As the user above you mentioned, this kind of system would have to be very large and involve lots of players to help avoid having more than just one guild being able to dictate that power. My idea was to have the discovery of a coup be easy to unravel that would set off a cooldown, disabling another coup from starting for X days. But that has its own problems of making this entire idea useless if its so easy to negate it.

    And I do agree, I think grinding is the worst way to reward someone by making them Emperor. Most of us have other things to do than to play Elder Scrolls Online. (I can't think of anything right now, but I'm sure there is something else to do than Elder Scrolls Online...) It's so easy for an Emperor to lose their spot if they have a job.

    The complexity of what you want to do would require a ton of manpower. They have yet to get a good handle on bug fixing and network issues. I don't have faith yet that they can pull something this complex off at this time.

    I'm still playing and having fun but what you are asking for doesn't seem like it can be pulled off withou exposing some other major design flaws.

    Respectfully, stop assuming my motives. I know there are a lot of bugs and technical issues that take top priority right now. I'm a Mac player, and we have memory leaks that cause our games to crash randomly after continuos game play. Obviously, I'd much rather have that fixed now instead of new content coming out.

    The system that I am suggesting would require a lot of developing time, and a whole lot more testing. Trust me, I know my idea a lot better than you do. But this is a suggestion! Suggestions are not tickets about bug fixes, not a ticket about a technical issue, not a concern to be dealt with right away; suggestions are low priority.

    I have seen on many content suggestion topics of forum users disagreeing with ideas on the sole reason that it is not of high priority. You are not forum moderators or administrators so don't go telling others that their idea is bad just because there are more concerning bugs to fix. We know that.

    Forum comments are supposed to stay on topic, so stating off-topic opinions of prioritization, can be considered spam; which is what I mentioned earlier in this thread.

    I am enjoying the game, I still play it frequently when I'm home. I have long since left the campaign that granted me this idea and I am enjoying PVP. I will reinforce the notion that this is a suggestion again because that is all this is. Don't assume my motives, don't assume that I'm just trying to get one random player dethroned, don't assume anything about my game playing style because it is irrelevant to the suggestion; as I have also stated before.

    Now please, refrain from posting unless it's related to the actual topic of this thread. I will not respond to further off-topic nonsense on this thread.
    Edited by WhitePawPrints on 15 May 2014 17:25
  • Infraction
    Infraction
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    Infraction wrote: »
    Those are actually valid concerns. Thank you! The idea would be very difficult to make it actually work in the game, for reasons that you listed. As the user above you mentioned, this kind of system would have to be very large and involve lots of players to help avoid having more than just one guild being able to dictate that power. My idea was to have the discovery of a coup be easy to unravel that would set off a cooldown, disabling another coup from starting for X days. But that has its own problems of making this entire idea useless if its so easy to negate it.

    And I do agree, I think grinding is the worst way to reward someone by making them Emperor. Most of us have other things to do than to play Elder Scrolls Online. (I can't think of anything right now, but I'm sure there is something else to do than Elder Scrolls Online...) It's so easy for an Emperor to lose their spot if they have a job.

    The complexity of what you want to do would require a ton of manpower. They have yet to get a good handle on bug fixing and network issues. I don't have faith yet that they can pull something this complex off at this time.

    I'm still playing and having fun but what you are asking for doesn't seem like it can be pulled off withou exposing some other major design flaws.

    Respectfully, stop assuming my motives. I know there are a lot of bugs and technical issues that take top priority right now. I'm a Mac player, and we have memory leaks that cause our games to crash randomly after continuos game play. Obviously, I'd much rather have that fixed now instead of new content coming out.

    The system that I am suggesting would require a lot of developing time, and a whole lot more testing. Trust me, I know my idea a lot better than you do. But this is a suggestion! Suggestions are not tickets about bug fixes, not a ticket about a technical issue, not a concern to be dealt with right away; suggestions are low priority.

    I have seen on many content suggestion topics of forum users disagreeing with ideas on the sole reason that it is not of high priority. You are not forum moderators or administrators so don't go telling others that their idea is bad just because there are more concerning bugs to fix. We know that.

    Forum comments are supposed to stay on topic, so stating off-topic opinions of prioritization, can be considered spam; which is what I mentioned earlier in this thread.

    I am enjoying the game, I still play it frequently when I'm home. I have long since left the campaign that granted me this idea and I am enjoying PVP. I will reinforce the notion that this is a suggestion again because that is all this is. Don't assume my motives, don't assume that I'm just trying to get one random player dethroned, don't assume anything about my game playing style because it is irrelevant to the suggestion; as I have also stated before.

    Now please, refrain from posting unless it's related to the actual topic of this thread. I will not respond to further off-topic nonsense on this thread.

    You are awfully long winded and defensive about my assumptions. My contribution to the discussion prior was that this a system that would be very exploitable.

    Contrary to your opinion part of a discussion sometimes has differing thoughts and opinions.

    TLDR: Deal with it....

  • Delte
    Delte
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    Maybe look at this from their point of view?

    They all belong to a pvp guild and work well together in that small group. They are having fun doing what they do. Then some random guy comes along and tells them to group up. Someone they have never met or grouped with, and someone not in their guild. You could be a spy for all they know, a player with a second account trying to get names and numbers on the dominant guilds in Cyrodiil.

    Why should they group with you?

    I know some fleets in Eve Online that could rip apart larger fleets of twice their number because they fly with each other nearly every day and their communication skills via TS is extremely good. The corp I belonged to at one point had this ability and I have seen it first hand.
    So why would they invite a stranger to their team ?
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