I can't do two bars!

moo_2021 · May 7

I tried really hard - put on a beam build with pale order, did good against world boss, then I went to solo nBRP, spending half of my time running and dodging, let alone doing any rotation, can barely pass first 2 waves.

Then the 2 bar version of my tanky PVP build with tons of healing - jumped into a losing BG game, 4x4 (basically 2 vs 4), nowhere to hide, major resolve not working (from combat metrics), enemies hit like truck and I died almost instantly every time without being able to contribute. But, as soon as I put on the one bar version, I could focus and deal real damage.

Why is that? As far as I can tell, almost nobody else in BG or Cyrodiil use one bar, and they rarely panic or appear to struggle with buffs. I'm doing all right with my one bar builds for now, but the options are very limited - the ring, no backbar proc or monster helm. I can't even do vengeance. Every time I tried two bars it just seems hopeless except against static targets.

Also I'm using controller and a TV as my screen, so half of the time I'm not sure exactly what my enemies are doing, except the obvious whip (e.g. I can't see if corrosive is on). But surely console players don't have the same problem as I do?

Oblivion_Protocol · May 7

Bar swapping quickly takes a lot of skill and practice. But it also takes quick reflexes, and not everyone has those.

Soarora · May 7

You might just need practice. I started with having my backbar be for movement (major expedition, gap closer…) and front bar for damage. Similarly, for PvP I think it’s common to have one bar offense, one bar defense. That way, your bars are for two different things. That might be an easier starting point than using your second bar as vaguely another bar to work with.

People also do a lot of parsing— sitting at a dummy in a house and practicing their rotation. I listen to upbeat music most of the time to make it less boring and to help with keeping a tempo. Doing that will help you with your backbar uptime problem (and being able to do a rotation in more intense circumstances— muscle memory).

Edit: I forgot a massively important thing: you need to have some sort of timers for your skills. There’s a base game setting for backbar skill timers but Fancy Action Bar+ addon is better (and very customizable). I have mine set so that I can see if a backbar skill falls off because the icon disappears from on top of my active skill bar. Makes it easy to see.

moo_2021 · May 7

Soarora wrote: »

I started with having my backbar be for movement (major expedition, gap closer…) and front bar for damage. Similarly, for PvP I think it’s common to have one bar offense, one bar defense. That way, your bars are for two different things. That might be an easier starting point than using your second bar as vaguely another bar to work with.

What about burst heal and resolving vigor? Or do people use some form of barswap cancellation?

Militan1404 · May 7

Wish they buffed oakensoul back to its former glory and not only make it usefull for some heavy attack builds. Didnt use it much myself but it brought lots of player confidence to do content they normally wouldn’t.

Nestor · May 7

I rarely ever bar swap. Before Oakensoul, I would use one bar for Single Target and one Bar for AoE to take care of mob packs and trash. Also helps to have the same functional sequence on your bars for skills. For example: 1 Buff, 2 and 3 DoT, 4 your Spammable Damage and 5 your execute or shield or heal. In any event, pick a mix that makes sense to you, use skills that buff each other and that will help.

Now, with Oakensoul, I just run one bar.

Also, something easy to learn, and quite effective to increase DPS is LIght Attack Animation Canceling. You can stand in front a Target Dummy and get the muscle memory and the timing down and you will do just fine out side of Competitive Trials and Hard Mode DLC Vet stuff.

Vaqual · May 8

Rule of thumb: If you feel like you can't execute an operation in a game, your keybinds are not optimal. Work with your strengths, not against them.
Ask yourself:
When do you want to swap?
What fingers are free, which ones are occupied in such a moment?
How straining is a motion?
How does it fit into your general motion pattern?

Organizing your keybinds and staying consistent is the best way to form working muscle memory. You need to be able to execute your gameplay without looking, then you will have time to watch your opponent.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 8

A lot of folks can't do this for many reasons and they should not be punished for them. They should restore it as it was. It would be a good thing for the game.

SkaiFaith · May 8

1+ for restoring Oakensoul, but in case you don't know, PTS testers report a buff to Heavy Attacks for upcoming U50, which is not a complete solution but is something at least.

I have nerves issues resulting in my hands being "baby-hands" easily hurting and with limited amount of strength. I just simply MUST use Oakensoul. Trying anything else hurts me eventually. And btw, I have pain with Oakensoul too if I force myself in long sessions of IA, NM, like in recent days.

On the topic of OP: I don't want to discourage anyone to try and improve, but I think for some players two bars is just not an option, really. Go with Oakensoul and your combat experience will change. Be prepared to being pushed back by some groups.

(Since Zos is buffing Heavy Attack's, would be nice if they restore Tri-focus passive from Staves so that the splash damage returns to be applied to every tick of the channel and not just the last boom; would definitely help with harder content, especially since Heavy Attacks are also buggy and often refute to fire when you swap targeted enemy.)

Sluggy · May 8

moo_2021 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I started with having my backbar be for movement (major expedition, gap closer…) and front bar for damage. Similarly, for PvP I think it’s common to have one bar offense, one bar defense. That way, your bars are for two different things. That might be an easier starting point than using your second bar as vaguely another bar to work with.

What about burst heal and resolving vigor? Or do people use some form of barswap cancellation?

I usually keep them on my backbar. But that is primarily because I usually play with a shield on backbar and if I need to block while spamming heals then obviously I want it all in one place.

It's all about muscle memory. You get that from practice and nothing else.

moo_2021 · May 8

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

A lot of folks can't do this for many reasons and they should not be punished for them. They should restore it as it was. It would be a good thing for the game.

Note i'm not complaining about one bar performance. In fact I think my builds are quite good in PvP despite having almost no rotation.

If anything, variaties would be nice to have. But no idea how to balance that.

Soarora · May 8

moo_2021 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I started with having my backbar be for movement (major expedition, gap closer…) and front bar for damage. Similarly, for PvP I think it’s common to have one bar offense, one bar defense. That way, your bars are for two different things. That might be an easier starting point than using your second bar as vaguely another bar to work with.

What about burst heal and resolving vigor? Or do people use some form of barswap cancellation?

For most of my builds, I don’t have each bar dedicated to different things so for me personally I have my burst heal and resolving vigor on frontbar. Echoing vigor I’ll put on my backbar because it’s a longer duration.

Edit:
My PvE builds (except for my main, who uses backbar for traversal) use the bars more like this:
For dps, front bar spammable(s) + skills that have strong passives + anything that needs dual wield (like blade cloak). Backbar long damage over time abilities and the weapon’s ground area of effect to proc my backbar enchant no matter what bar I’m on.

Tank, front bar burst heal + skills that have strong passives + chain (personal preference) + puncture. Backbar utility (debuffs), range taunt, my major resolve skill…

SkaiFaith wrote: »

On the topic of OP: I don't want to discourage anyone to try and improve, but I think for some players two bars is just not an option, really. Go with Oakensoul and your combat experience will change. Be prepared to being pushed back by some groups.

You are discouraging the attempt by saying this. Yes, sure, some people can’t do much more than hold down a button but OP didn’t mention any health constraints, it just sounds like 2 bars is currently overwhelming because they need practice.

Kalthea · May 8

Elder Scrolls Online is very janky in terms of combat mechanics, and there is a lot you need to juggle. There are ways of making this easier on yourself. For example, my bars are set up in a "count down" system. 4, 3, 2, 1, bar swap. I currently run a permanent buff skill in slot 5, so I can ignore that slot entirely. Here is my rundown (frost MagDen):

Backbar:
5-Mage Light (Passives, Mage's Guild)
4-Blue Betty
3-Bleed Trap (Fighter's Guild)
2-Winter's Revenge
1-Wall of Elements

Bar Swap

This gets me my buffs and places down my DoT ground effects in one smooth roation, and requires no thought process other than focusing on my weaving (I hate weaving, but that is a different discussion). Just take your time to feel out how you want to lay out your skills on your bar. Remember, you don't have to follow every guide perfectly.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · 1:57AM

SkaiFaith wrote: »

1+ for restoring Oakensoul, but in case you don't know, PTS testers report a buff to Heavy Attacks for upcoming U50, which is not a complete solution but is something at least.

I have nerves issues resulting in my hands being "baby-hands" easily hurting and with limited amount of strength. I just simply MUST use Oakensoul. Trying anything else hurts me eventually. And btw, I have pain with Oakensoul too if I force myself in long sessions of IA, NM, like in recent days.

On the topic of OP: I don't want to discourage anyone to try and improve, but I think for some players two bars is just not an option, really. Go with Oakensoul and your combat experience will change. Be prepared to being pushed back by some groups.

(Since Zos is buffing Heavy Attack's, would be nice if they restore Tri-focus passive from Staves so that the splash damage returns to be applied to every tick of the channel and not just the last boom; would definitely help with harder content, especially since Heavy Attacks are also buggy and often refute to fire when you swap targeted enemy.)

Yes and restore the cleave so everyone can do it not just the Arcanists they forced upon us when they wrecked it. Or take the ranged cleave off of the beam. Thats fair.

tomfant · 12:46PM

moo_2021 wrote: »

I tried really hard - put on a beam build with pale order, did good against world boss, then I went to solo nBRP, spending half of my time running and dodging, let alone doing any rotation, can barely pass first 2 waves.

Pale Order requires constantly pumping out a decent amount of damage in order to get carried by its healing. Doing no damage = no healing from it. Just do your rotation and face tank everything except heavies from elite enemies. Your health bar will move a lot but as long as there is no oneshot you're fine. Movement in small circles, without having the enemies leave your ground AoE, helps avoiding quite a few of incoming attacks. For some encounters, slotting a chain is helpful to pull ranged mobs in. More foes in your AoE means more healing from pale order.

The first arena of BRP has a lot of archers, that don't come to you, and need to be interrupted if they don't die quickly. Same for the fire mages. Archers can be pulled, the mages can't. But they always spawn at the exact same spot. Either memorize their spawn location or use an addon that tells you when and where they spawn.

moo_2021 · 1:38PM

what about for PvP? I face problems with buff management - With one bar I keep minimal max resource but high recovery, since there is nothing on timer except vigor, while with two bars I must leave reserves to refresh buffs or it'd be fatal. But to have reserves I must increase max resources from the base 12k, and change the singular combat style (which is just endless attack and waving burst heal under pressure)?