Night Market 36 player cap

Syldras · May 3

I've read on these forums what the Night Market as a whole (plaza plus 3 districts) has a player cap at 36 players. Does anyone know what happens if you open a new 12 people group through the group finder if there are already more than 24 people in the zone? Would players teleporting to group get an error message when trying to enter the zone or end up in a different instance than their group?

Treeshka · May 4

Someone told me this in group that i made that they can not port to me, due to instance being full. So i guess it does not allow.

Renato90085 · May 4

will tell you instance being full

heimdall14_9 · May 4

best thing to do when this happens is have crown travel to a friend / guildmate then have group travel to crown so you dont end up in dead zone starting out new if your wanting full 36 pop

AllenaNightWood · May 4

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

tomofhyrule · May 4

Most of the caps they report do have a bit of wiggle room - like the cap is set to 36, but if you have the 35th person group with two friends and they port to leader, it would let the instance have 37.

However, there is a real cap, so eventually it would give an "instance is full" message.

Ilumia · May 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Most of the caps they report do have a bit of wiggle room - like the cap is set to 36, but if you have the 35th person group with two friends and they port to leader, it would let the instance have 37.

However, there is a real cap, so eventually it would give an "instance is full" message.

This is great to know, thanks.
I got a group up for a skirmish, and it filled so rapidly I thought I'd start a new one to show some of the people needing groups how fun some of the content can be when it's full of people. Not everyone from the second group could port to me, and I wondered about the cap, so thx for explaining

Gabriel_H · May 4

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

katanagirl1 · May 5

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

frogthroat · May 5

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

Can confirm.

I am not much of a tank, but we went yesterday as 1t 3dd group to introduce one guy to Night Market. He got through the intro quest, picked up the dailies and the main quest and off we went to do the main quest for him. No Brazen gave us any trouble. Had to reset an Ardent or two, but managed to kill any that we took on. We even joined a couple Skirmishes so he could see what they are. So, a 4 player group with a noob tank like me, and one player there for the first time, Brazens were not much of a challenge, Ardents required some concentration.

And yeah, our trial group did a skirmish while holding a wandering. More than once. With a 12 player group everything already becomes trivial.

tsaescishoeshiner · May 5

For other zones, there's a "soft cap" where players who port to that zone won't be placed in a "soft capped" instance of that zone. But if you port to a player, you can considerably go above the soft cap (20%? double?). Source: Being at a few high-volume events where we all joined one instance.

Not sure how the night market cap works, but them being overcrowded would cause enemies to be down constantly, which is bad. When I'm in the Market, it feels like my group and some stragglers are the only players in the district, which is much better for finding bosses to kill and never running to a spawn only to miss it.

twisttop138 · May 5

Syldras wrote: »

I've read on these forums what the Night Market as a whole (plaza plus 3 districts) has a player cap at 36 players. Does anyone know what happens if you open a new 12 people group through the group finder if there are already more than 24 people in the zone? Would players teleporting to group get an error message when trying to enter the zone or end up in a different instance than their group?

Talking about this in guild last night, I really think something is bugged. Like it's spinning up a new instance when just a few people are in one instead of 36 players. That's not to say I agree with the cap. 36 per district maybe but not the whole thing. I can see what they were going for but this didn't work out. Let's get this cap thing fixed and hopefully see if the instances are spinning up while under 36 players.

Gabriel_H · May 5

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

Building around the lowest common denominator makes it meaningless content for the majority of players.

twisttop138 · May 5

frogthroat wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

Can confirm.

I am not much of a tank, but we went yesterday as 1t 3dd group to introduce one guy to Night Market. He got through the intro quest, picked up the dailies and the main quest and off we went to do the main quest for him. No Brazen gave us any trouble. Had to reset an Ardent or two, but managed to kill any that we took on. We even joined a couple Skirmishes so he could see what they are. So, a 4 player group with a noob tank like me, and one player there for the first time, Brazens were not much of a challenge, Ardents required some concentration.

And yeah, our trial group did a skirmish while holding a wandering. More than once. With a 12 player group everything already becomes trivial.

I don't disagree with your or his post for sure. On Wednesday we took our usual trial team and split it. We went to different districts and proceeded to destroy the night market. But we were optimized, coordinating Ults, roster had group comp etc. I had every splinter and key at the end except the bugged warewolf boss and the coffer drops. But I took a group of 16 casuals in the next night from my social guild with only a trial tank and healer, no requirements. We managed most things but funnily enough, it was harder and took much longer. I can't imagine a random group finder group of 4 to 6 people. But idk if the cap is too low or it's making new instances when the others are not close to full. I look at my 5 guild rosters and see hundreds of people in the night market, go there and it seems a ghost town.

tomofhyrule · May 5

twisttop138 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I've read on these forums what the Night Market as a whole (plaza plus 3 districts) has a player cap at 36 players. Does anyone know what happens if you open a new 12 people group through the group finder if there are already more than 24 people in the zone? Would players teleporting to group get an error message when trying to enter the zone or end up in a different instance than their group?

Talking about this in guild last night, I really think something is bugged. Like it's spinning up a new instance when just a few people are in one instead of 36 players. That's not to say I agree with the cap. 36 per district maybe but not the whole thing. I can see what they were going for but this didn't work out. Let's get this cap thing fixed and hopefully see if the instances are spinning up while under 36 players.

I think it’s related to the Faceted bug that’s been mentioned.

The game’s normal logic is likely to spread players evenly across multiple instances so none of them start to have performance issues. But the Night Market opened loads of instances and doesn’t seem to be shutting them down properly, which means the game prefers to spread players thinly across too many instances instead of trying to fill them and remove the unnecessary instances. That would explain why you can look at a guild roster and see everyone in the Market, but when you go in there are only like two other people.

If they just managed to make instances shut down properly, the Market would feel more alive.

EDIT: Anecdotal information to this extent - I was in with a guild group on Saturday, we had like two groups of ten and then ran across another large group. It really felt like 30+ people in one area… and it was already at the “enemies die when you look at them” state. Not to mention that the performance had degraded so badly during the Skirmish that we all thought we were on the verge of d/cing.
That’s why I say increased instance caps ARE NOT the answer. 36 is fine. It just needs to get to 36.

The_Drop_Bear · May 5

Gabriel_H wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

Building around the lowest common denominator makes it meaningless content for the majority of players.

Players who can take down the Argent bosses in 4 man groups are the lowest common denominator.

The most common reasonable complaint about the night market is the player cap is too low to be split across 3 districts and the hub.

Gabriel_H · May 5

twisttop138 wrote: »

But I took a group of 16 casuals in the next night from my social guild with only a trial tank and healer, no requirements. We managed most things but funnily enough, it was harder and took much longer

But did you complete it? That's the point.

Less experienced players will find it more difficult, and so they should. You wouldn't expect a bunch of 12 casuals to walk into vSE and nail a trifecta after a few tries, would you?

o_Primate_o · May 5

36 - 48 is about the sweet spot. anything higher even the purely social guilds could group up 3-4 12man teams and steamroll through the districts, farming treasure and favor.

Danikat · May 5

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

I've seen it happen. I was in a random group finder group, no roles required, no build checks and no coordination beyond pinging a boss to go to. 4 players broke off to fight an argent when it appeared, while the rest of us were going for another brazen, and they killed it before we could get there.

Admittedly they could have been a hardcore trial progression group who had carefully coordinated with each other and for whatever reason then chose to join a bigger group of randoms, but it seems unlikely.

Catching wandering bosses during the skirmish, or fighting another boss, is almost impossible to avoid and I've been part of multiple groups that ended up fighting both together. There's so much going on I suspect a lot of people don't even notice it's two seperate things.

twisttop138 · May 5

tomofhyrule wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

I've read on these forums what the Night Market as a whole (plaza plus 3 districts) has a player cap at 36 players. Does anyone know what happens if you open a new 12 people group through the group finder if there are already more than 24 people in the zone? Would players teleporting to group get an error message when trying to enter the zone or end up in a different instance than their group?

Talking about this in guild last night, I really think something is bugged. Like it's spinning up a new instance when just a few people are in one instead of 36 players. That's not to say I agree with the cap. 36 per district maybe but not the whole thing. I can see what they were going for but this didn't work out. Let's get this cap thing fixed and hopefully see if the instances are spinning up while under 36 players.

I think it’s related to the Faceted bug that’s been mentioned.

The game’s normal logic is likely to spread players evenly across multiple instances so none of them start to have performance issues. But the Night Market opened loads of instances and doesn’t seem to be shutting them down properly, which means the game prefers to spread players thinly across too many instances instead of trying to fill them and remove the unnecessary instances. That would explain why you can look at a guild roster and see everyone in the Market, but when you go in there are only like two other people.

If they just managed to make instances shut down properly, the Market would feel more alive.

EDIT: Anecdotal information to this extent - I was in with a guild group on Saturday, we had like two groups of ten and then ran across another large group. It really felt like 30+ people in one area… and it was already at the “enemies die when you look at them” state. Not to mention that the performance had degraded so badly during the Skirmish that we all thought we were on the verge of d/cing.
That’s why I say increased instance caps ARE NOT the answer. 36 is fine. It just needs to get to 36.

This is a good point and I can see this is probably whats happening. Hopefully they can get it taken care of. Because yes, your anecdotal info matches my own, I had a group of 24 in on Friday night and called out the skirmish was active in the sorrows. More players came, and sure stuff died fast but the performance was crazy. I actually had a DC I've never had before. I was frozen for about a minute before it would let me force close the game. The entire PS5 seemed to lock up. I've only ever had that with fallout 76 which is notorious for bad performance. Then the game didn't realize I was not logged in so couldn't log back in for 5 minutes. Whatever the problem is, I would just like it fixed.

Gabriel_H · May 5

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

Building around the lowest common denominator makes it meaningless content for the majority of players.

Players who can take down the Argent bosses in 4 man groups are the lowest common denominator.

The most common reasonable complaint about the night market is the player cap is too low to be split across 3 districts and the hub.

"Lowest common denominator" in society refers to targeting, catering to, or catering for the least capable members to ensure maximum appeal. This concept often leads to "dumbing down" aiming for simple, non-offensive, or sensationalist content that everyone can understand.

i.e. making it easier to cater to the least skilled, which are not the majority, will render the content meaningless for the majority.

twisttop138 · May 5

Gabriel_H wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

But I took a group of 16 casuals in the next night from my social guild with only a trial tank and healer, no requirements. We managed most things but funnily enough, it was harder and took much longer

But did you complete it? That's the point.

Less experienced players will find it more difficult, and so they should. You wouldn't expect a bunch of 12 casuals to walk into vSE and nail a trifecta after a few tries, would you?

Oh, for sure. We completed it. I can just see the pain of some of these group finder groups. But the content can be completed by everyone. The argument that people are locked out of doing the content is a personal thing as everyone can complete this.

katanagirl1 · May 6

Gabriel_H wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

Building around the lowest common denominator makes it meaningless content for the majority of players.

We’re just asking for more players around in instances to do soft grouping for quick things instead of using the group finder for everything including oddities. I don’t think the instances I always get in while solo have anywhere near 36 players in them. They are empty.

The_Drop_Bear · May 6

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

Building around the lowest common denominator makes it meaningless content for the majority of players.

Players who can take down the Argent bosses in 4 man groups are the lowest common denominator.

The most common reasonable complaint about the night market is the player cap is too low to be split across 3 districts and the hub.

"Lowest common denominator" in society refers to targeting, catering to, or catering for the least capable members to ensure maximum appeal. This concept often leads to "dumbing down" aiming for simple, non-offensive, or sensationalist content that everyone can understand.

i.e. making it easier to cater to the least skilled, which are not the majority, will render the content meaningless for the majority.

Except in this case the least skilled are the majority

Gabriel_H · May 6

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

The_Drop_Bear wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

Building around the lowest common denominator makes it meaningless content for the majority of players.

Players who can take down the Argent bosses in 4 man groups are the lowest common denominator.

The most common reasonable complaint about the night market is the player cap is too low to be split across 3 districts and the hub.

"Lowest common denominator" in society refers to targeting, catering to, or catering for the least capable members to ensure maximum appeal. This concept often leads to "dumbing down" aiming for simple, non-offensive, or sensationalist content that everyone can understand.

i.e. making it easier to cater to the least skilled, which are not the majority, will render the content meaningless for the majority.

Except in this case the least skilled are the majority

No, because that isn't what lowest common denominator means.

Gabriel_H · May 6

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

Given difficulty of the content and lack of people i see cap should be at least doubled from what it is now

A dedicated 4-man can kill any of the Brazen and even Argents
6 can kill a wandering boss without much hassle
12 can kill a skirmish while also holding a wandering

Increasing the cap will make the encounters as meaningless as the camps were in Solstice.

I disagree, unless those teams are seasoned players who know their builds. The group finder groups are randoms like in group dungeon queue so there is no vetting for skills and gear.

Building around the lowest common denominator makes it meaningless content for the majority of players.

We’re just asking for more players around in instances to do soft grouping for quick things instead of using the group finder for everything including oddities. I don’t think the instances I always get in while solo have anywhere near 36 players in them. They are empty.

Oddities don't need a group. Spider are easier with 2, but the other two are easily soloable.