hoangdz wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B_lUvQso84

Wow crazy rotation

coop500 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

If you're not going to use Signet and other BiS options then you need to do the same for every other class that you compare WW damage to for U50. Otherwise it is a completely disingenuous and skewed comparison intended to make WW appear weaker than it actually is.

For the record, I don't know where you got the idea that I was using Signet on the non-WW builds I was testing, but I wasn't. So please stop with spewing nonsense about being "disingenuous"

I used the same, non-cheese fairly basic DPS one bar builds (a few different kinds) for both testing WW and not WW, with no Signet or Class Masteries for either.

Oakensoul and that Vel Amulet everyone uses for Beam Builds is the mythics I used, along with Whorl of the Depths and Order's Wrath (swapped out for Deadly Strike at other tests) I did this not to test the meta, but to test a fairly standard baseline for beam-like one bar builds.

Werewolf came out slightly ahead, at the cost of being clunky, short range, reduced cleave cone, and ult minigame battling.

I'm not a parsing master or a meta chaser, so someone else might get different results with some tweaks, but that was my discovery after a good full day of testing and tweaking with different combos and classes (DK breath, Warden one bar for general non-channelled but still one bar build, and Arcanist beam.)

Dracane wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

If you're not going to use Signet and other BiS options then you need to do the same for every other class that you compare WW damage to for U50. Otherwise it is a completely disingenuous and skewed comparison intended to make WW appear weaker than it actually is.

For the record, I don't know where you got the idea that I was using Signet on the non-WW builds I was testing, but I wasn't. So please stop with spewing nonsense about being "disingenuous"

I used the same, non-cheese fairly basic DPS one bar builds (a few different kinds) for both testing WW and not WW, with no Signet or Class Masteries for either.

Oakensoul and that Vel Amulet everyone uses for Beam Builds is the mythics I used, along with Whorl of the Depths and Order's Wrath (swapped out for Deadly Strike at other tests) I did this not to test the meta, but to test a fairly standard baseline for beam-like one bar builds.

Werewolf came out slightly ahead, at the cost of being clunky, short range, reduced cleave cone, and ult minigame battling.

I'm not a parsing master or a meta chaser, so someone else might get different results with some tweaks, but that was my discovery after a good full day of testing and tweaking with different combos and classes (DK breath, Warden one bar for general non-channelled but still one bar build, and Arcanist beam.)

Using a Mythic that nullifies your light attack on a class whose main damage comes from light attacks (Werewolf) seems like a recipe for disappointment. No wonder the Werewolf parse yields mild results.

Dracane wrote: »

I read you use Packmaster Werewolf as well. So no wonder the DPS is lower.

Dracane wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I read you use Packmaster Werewolf as well. So no wonder the DPS is lower.

I also tried both, but if you're going to keep picking, sure, have fun. You're getting your way anyway, so why must you all keep kicking?
Berserker is downright impossible to sustain in real content as a only WW so yes, in real content, realistically, you're running pack master unless you have other WWs

I just think those complains are dishonest and incorrect when you do all you can to make WW DPS look unviable by using Velothi and Packmaster. Of course a roleplay build won't top the charts.

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

As someone who actually plays Oakensoul arcanist still: PTS werewolf is still more complex than that thing, and Beam gives you a lot more freedom to shut your brain off, with a giant ass shield to protect yourself from damage while you stand back at range already. Werewolf, you don't get a shield, and you're IN the mix of it, hoping the boss doesn't fire an AOE one shot that you can't escape from.

Compared to ranged Arc's Beam, melee channeling abilities truly need shields or continuous healing because close-quarters combat is more dangerous.

Currently, Arc has too many survival options in PvE. Cephaliarch's Flail provides burst healing, and Pragmatic Fatecarve grants a shield and reduces cost. In contrast, WW have almost no means to protect themselves during channeling, and their damage isn't particularly high. If ZOS is going to provide channeling abilities for all classes, it should at least use Pragmatic Fatecarve as the standard: either no shield but increased damage, or shield/healing but lower damage, or shield/healing but higher mana cost.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Wow crazy rotation

Oh come on, it's not like Oakensoul HA back in the day or beam now is any more impressive and 'no one' is bothered. You drop a handful of dots and then you beam for the vast majority of your parse. Hekk, you even don't even light attack in either of those, in fact beam has you run a mythic that reduces your light attack damage by 99%.

~Elites gotta elite~ (in your case you clearly have some sort of deep-seeded hatred for anything werewolf-shaped) at all costs. ZOS didn't care about 'your' opinion with Oakensoul HA (until they came out with Arc beam), and they don't care about your opinion now with beam as it remains 140-150k easily (with cleave) and they're even giving one to every reworked class apparently (from what we've seen so far).

Repeat after me: this is a fantasy game that has not remotely cared about the 'top-end' community's fickle feelings on QoL or 'what others are doing' in a long time.

For PvP: the fact that Jerall's exists in duels and Rush of Agony still exists in open world + corrosive and leap are ultimates that function they way they do in PvP should tell you everything you need to know.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

people out here complaining about 1 bar WW parsing 140k+ without signet, yet sorcs barely parse that same number (if they're uber lucky with insane crit rng) on a 2 bar full weaving setup once sorcs parse cheese (signet, overload, travelling knife and monolith) has been completely removed, yet every non-sorc out here crying about a clickbait 220k (that has since been nerfed to sub-180k) cheesed parse and that sorc needs even more nerfs despite that cheesed parse no longer being possible with the existing nerfs that took even parse cheese sorcerer to below even warden and NB DPS levels...

Dracane wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

people out here complaining about 1 bar WW parsing 140k+ without signet, yet sorcs barely parse that same number (if they're uber lucky with insane crit rng) on a 2 bar full weaving setup once sorcs parse cheese (signet, overload, travelling knife and monolith) has been completely removed, yet every non-sorc out here crying about a clickbait 220k (that has since been nerfed to sub-180k) cheesed parse and that sorc needs even more nerfs despite that cheesed parse no longer being possible with the existing nerfs that took even parse cheese sorcerer to below even warden and NB DPS levels...

And I resent that they want to buff Static Reverberation back up to fix this, which is just too broken in pvp on some builds instead of raising Font of Power, which is very low in value on the majority of builds and healthier to raise than Static.

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

people out here complaining about 1 bar WW parsing 140k+ without signet, yet sorcs barely parse that same number (if they're uber lucky with insane crit rng) on a 2 bar full weaving setup once sorcs parse cheese (signet, overload, travelling knife and monolith) has been completely removed, yet every non-sorc out here crying about a clickbait 220k (that has since been nerfed to sub-180k) cheesed parse and that sorc needs even more nerfs despite that cheesed parse no longer being possible with the existing nerfs that took even parse cheese sorcerer to below even warden and NB DPS levels...

And I resent that they want to buff Static Reverberation back up to fix this, which is just too broken in pvp on some builds instead of raising Font of Power, which is very low in value on the majority of builds and healthier to raise than Static.

I get 850+ weapon damage on my magsorc. I dont understand why you keep insisting its weak. Its a really strong passive, the single strongest weapon damage passive offered to pure classes because its a mainly selfish passive. Ofc its not strong on 25-26k resource pool but you can easily reach 40k stamina or magicka with 0 trouble, not even using max mag or stam items, just race and food and hakeijo enchants. I dont get at what threshold you would be satisfied at, 1.2k weapon damage at 40k resource pool?

Though i agree that static should 100% remain at 0.5 sec cd with battle spirit active, that would be a goated change if the dev team makes that seperation between pve and pvp.

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

people out here complaining about 1 bar WW parsing 140k+ without signet, yet sorcs barely parse that same number (if they're uber lucky with insane crit rng) on a 2 bar full weaving setup once sorcs parse cheese (signet, overload, travelling knife and monolith) has been completely removed, yet every non-sorc out here crying about a clickbait 220k (that has since been nerfed to sub-180k) cheesed parse and that sorc needs even more nerfs despite that cheesed parse no longer being possible with the existing nerfs that took even parse cheese sorcerer to below even warden and NB DPS levels...

And I resent that they want to buff Static Reverberation back up to fix this, which is just too broken in pvp on some builds instead of raising Font of Power, which is very low in value on the majority of builds and healthier to raise than Static.

I get 850+ weapon damage on my magsorc. I dont understand why you keep insisting its weak. Its a really strong passive, the single strongest weapon damage passive offered to pure classes because its a mainly selfish passive. Ofc its not strong on 25-26k resource pool but you can easily reach 40k stamina or magicka with 0 trouble, not even using max mag or stam items, just race and food and hakeijo enchants. I dont get at what threshold you would be satisfied at, 1.2k weapon damage at 40k resource pool?

Though i agree that static should 100% remain at 0.5 sec cd with battle spirit active, that would be a goated change if the dev team makes that seperation between pve and pvp.

It's not even close to being the strongest amongst class masteries. Have you looked at other spell/weapon damage masteries? And no normal and efficient damage build even has 40k magicka. To get 40k magicka, you already have to start making some inconvenient choices that nullify the damage gained. You always have to see it in relation and in the whole picture. Any amount of magicka you stack, also costs you weapon damage elsewhere, or crit damage.

So you do not truly gain 850 weapon damage. You already made some bad choice to get there, and the bad choices only mount as you go. Magicka is the worst way to raise damage, even for Sorc with all its modifiers. Other classes get their weapon damage without any altercations by just doing what they already do. Not to mention Warden and Nightblade, who get more than 2x this amount you mentioned.

So indeed, Font of Power needs a considerable buff.

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

people out here complaining about 1 bar WW parsing 140k+ without signet, yet sorcs barely parse that same number (if they're uber lucky with insane crit rng) on a 2 bar full weaving setup once sorcs parse cheese (signet, overload, travelling knife and monolith) has been completely removed, yet every non-sorc out here crying about a clickbait 220k (that has since been nerfed to sub-180k) cheesed parse and that sorc needs even more nerfs despite that cheesed parse no longer being possible with the existing nerfs that took even parse cheese sorcerer to below even warden and NB DPS levels...

And I resent that they want to buff Static Reverberation back up to fix this, which is just too broken in pvp on some builds instead of raising Font of Power, which is very low in value on the majority of builds and healthier to raise than Static.

I get 850+ weapon damage on my magsorc. I dont understand why you keep insisting its weak. Its a really strong passive, the single strongest weapon damage passive offered to pure classes because its a mainly selfish passive. Ofc its not strong on 25-26k resource pool but you can easily reach 40k stamina or magicka with 0 trouble, not even using max mag or stam items, just race and food and hakeijo enchants. I dont get at what threshold you would be satisfied at, 1.2k weapon damage at 40k resource pool?

Though i agree that static should 100% remain at 0.5 sec cd with battle spirit active, that would be a goated change if the dev team makes that seperation between pve and pvp.

It's not even close to being the strongest amongst class masteries. Have you looked at other spell/weapon damage masteries? And no normal and efficient damage build even has 40k magicka. To get 40k magicka, you already have to start making some inconvenient choices that nullify the damage gained. You always have to see it in relation and in the whole picture. Any amount of magicka you stack, also costs you weapon damage elsewhere, or crit damage.

So you do not truly gain 850 weapon damage. You already made some bad choice to get there, and the bad choices only mount as you go. Magicka is the worst way to raise damage, even for Sorc with all its modifiers. Other classes get their weapon damage without any altercations by just doing what they already do. Not to mention Warden and Nightblade, who get more than 2x this amount you mentioned.

So indeed, Font of Power needs a considerable buff.

Yes i did, the next best one is 600 with templar but ofcourse it also gives weapon damage to teammates so it makes sense that its weaker on the user. You also get 300 for arcanists, and imo 3 crux every 15 seconds doesnt make up for the raw weapon damage, what else is there really for weapon damage passives? The 1.6k warden one? Thats weapon damage to your skills, yes its strong but its not going to really help you with healing yourself unless you yourself have a billion status effects affecting you for example and 1 extended ritual and its all gone, not to mention the passive basically needs you to be on serpents disdain to even use properly.

Yes sorc has the best pure class weapon damage passive in the game and no i dont agree that it should be balanced on 25-30k range. Of course you arent going to be able to take advantage of the passive if you dont build into it, thats a given imo.

You are missing the point. Building into it is why it's so bad. Building magicka is the single worse decision you can make. Font of Power makes it less bad, but if you run the math per point of magicka compared to one point of weapon damage, it barely tips the scale because you also lost too much damage elsewhere to raise that fancy tooltip.

Font of Power changes magicka stacking from being a meme and self sabotage to being viable (only in pvp, mind you) but max mag sorcs still get farmed by normal builds. I have seen it plentifully on the PTS in Riften.

Why would you ever build for max magicka when building for pen, or crit or even just weapon damage is that much stronger? The only reason is to boost damage shields, which are still memes mostly. That's why almost no one uses them over HoT stacking.

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

people out here complaining about 1 bar WW parsing 140k+ without signet, yet sorcs barely parse that same number (if they're uber lucky with insane crit rng) on a 2 bar full weaving setup once sorcs parse cheese (signet, overload, travelling knife and monolith) has been completely removed, yet every non-sorc out here crying about a clickbait 220k (that has since been nerfed to sub-180k) cheesed parse and that sorc needs even more nerfs despite that cheesed parse no longer being possible with the existing nerfs that took even parse cheese sorcerer to below even warden and NB DPS levels...

And I resent that they want to buff Static Reverberation back up to fix this, which is just too broken in pvp on some builds instead of raising Font of Power, which is very low in value on the majority of builds and healthier to raise than Static.

I get 850+ weapon damage on my magsorc. I dont understand why you keep insisting its weak. Its a really strong passive, the single strongest weapon damage passive offered to pure classes because its a mainly selfish passive. Ofc its not strong on 25-26k resource pool but you can easily reach 40k stamina or magicka with 0 trouble, not even using max mag or stam items, just race and food and hakeijo enchants. I dont get at what threshold you would be satisfied at, 1.2k weapon damage at 40k resource pool?

Though i agree that static should 100% remain at 0.5 sec cd with battle spirit active, that would be a goated change if the dev team makes that seperation between pve and pvp.

It's not even close to being the strongest amongst class masteries. Have you looked at other spell/weapon damage masteries? And no normal and efficient damage build even has 40k magicka. To get 40k magicka, you already have to start making some inconvenient choices that nullify the damage gained. You always have to see it in relation and in the whole picture. Any amount of magicka you stack, also costs you weapon damage elsewhere, or crit damage.

So you do not truly gain 850 weapon damage. You already made some bad choice to get there, and the bad choices only mount as you go. Magicka is the worst way to raise damage, even for Sorc with all its modifiers. Other classes get their weapon damage without any altercations by just doing what they already do. Not to mention Warden and Nightblade, who get more than 2x this amount you mentioned.

So indeed, Font of Power needs a considerable buff.

Yes i did, the next best one is 600 with templar but ofcourse it also gives weapon damage to teammates so it makes sense that its weaker on the user. You also get 300 for arcanists, and imo 3 crux every 15 seconds doesnt make up for the raw weapon damage, what else is there really for weapon damage passives? The 1.6k warden one? Thats weapon damage to your skills, yes its strong but its not going to really help you with healing yourself unless you yourself have a billion status effects affecting you for example and 1 extended ritual and its all gone, not to mention the passive basically needs you to be on serpents disdain to even use properly.

Yes sorc has the best pure class weapon damage passive in the game and no i dont agree that it should be balanced on 25-30k range. Of course you arent going to be able to take advantage of the passive if you dont build into it, thats a given imo.

You are missing the point. Building into it is why it's so bad. Building magicka is the single worse decision you can make. Font of Power makes it less bad, but if you run the math per point of magicka compared to one point of weapon damage, it barely tips the scale because you also lost too much damage elsewhere to raise that fancy tooltip.

Font of Power changes magicka stacking from being a meme and self sabotage to being viable (only in pvp, mind you) but max mag sorcs still get farmed by normal builds. I have seen it plentifully on the PTS in Riften.

Why would you ever build for max magicka when building for pen, or crit or even just weapon damage is that much stronger? The only reason is to boost damage shields, which are still memes mostly. That's why almost no one uses them over HoT stacking.

Then build stamina

I'm not even memeing, i know you know that people did this in pts and had great results

Those I saw did not have great results. Building stamina makes no sense at all either. With magicka you can make the point that wards scale only off of it, but for stamina there is no such reason.

But go ahead and gimp your build. It won't be my problem that you do not understand how bad building for magicka is and you wonder where your damage is.