The [Snip] Market Completely Misses the Point of ESO

Athory · May 3

First of all, thank you, ZoS, for this absolutely phenomenal non‑fun [snip] Market disaster. Truly. I didn’t think it was possible to create something this miserable, but you managed it. This was, without any doubt, the worst experience I’ve ever had in ESO since the day I installed the game (12 years ago). Annoying, horrible, pointless, exhausting, a perfect storm of everything that makes a player question why they even bother logging in.

Second, favors are only used to unlock items, not to purchase them, something that is not made clear at all. I genuinely thought I needed 10,000 favors plus 20k gold just to buy a single monster set box. Combine that with the already terrible experience of the Night Market, and it’s enough to fry anyone’s brain.
No, we don’t lose Favors when we buy something.
We only lose gold.
Would it have killed you to make this clear from the start so players don’t panic about how awful the grind is going to be?

And finally… thank you again, ZoS, for “gatekeeping” me out of helping others.
This whole nonsense with dropping keys, dropping more keys, needing keys to enter trials, needing keys to help people, it’s not a system designed to give players freedom. It’s a system designed to force players into doing exactly what you want them to do. There is no choice. There is no freedom. There is no “play as you like” anymore. You replaced it with “play as we like.”
And that is 100% wrong.
You forgot your own core philosophy.
You forgot what made ESO special.
You forgot the players who actually care about this game.
This isn’t ZoS. This isn’t ESO. This is a hollow, frustrating, joy‑killing version of something that used to be great.

Your plan for the [snip] market feels exactly like what you’ve already done with PvP. You push PvE players into PvP zones—not because they want to be there, but to populate those areas and give PvP players more activity. PvE players go there for skills or progression, not because they enjoy that content. It’s forced participation.

The [snip] market follows the same pattern. You’re forcing players to farm keys and engage in specific activities just so they end up helping others along the way. That’s not organic cooperation—that’s artificial design.

Instead of letting players choose how they want to play, you keep building systems that push them into content they didn’t ask for. It doesn’t feel rewarding—it feels manipulative.

ESO used to respect player freedom. This system does the opposite. It replaces flexibility with obligation, and enjoyment with repetition. It doesn’t feel like an evolution of the game—it feels like a step away from everything that made it appealing in the first place.

So yeah… goodbye, Night Market.
After five days of genuinely hating the game I love — just to get a monster set — I’m finally done with this mess.

Congratulations, ZoS. I truly hope you’re proud of what you’ve turned the game into.

Nemesis7884 · May 3

Lots of people seem to enjoy it....endless parties to join and something new and different....I think a great addition to the game but understand its not for everyone...

Silaf · May 3

Most people in my guilds are having a lot of fun and is generally really well received in the Italian comunity.

Ardriel · May 3

Two days ago I would have agreed for 100%. I was frustrated because my raid group expects every member to farm the keys to get access to the trial + leads for the mythic ring. I was a bit overwhelmed by everyting and was afraid this would become a horror grind torture. I was even considering leaving the raid group and quitting the game.
But I didn't. People in my guild explained me everything and helped me farming the relevant things. Actually I made it in 2 days. Got all relics, did the 3 dungeons, have the key for the trial and the mythic.
It is defenitely more fun together with friends and guild mates. Go with some friends and find the rest with group finder tool.
I never had a problem with difficulty though. This is a group content and that's ok. It's perfectly fine if someone can't do it solo.

Gabriel_H · May 3

Couldn't disagree more.

ZOS made it clear this was a group-orientated zone. Can most of it be done solo, absoloutely if your build is right (I recommend Warrior-Poet body, RotPO and a damage boost set), but bosses and dungeons/trials will need a group just like they do in other parts of the game.

The overland content aspect is asymmetrical - you don't need a specific 4 or 12. Groups can easily be found in Group Finder. Some of the bosses are similar to the dungeon counterparts, and some are very much buffed versions - which I for one am glad about (Looking at you Murklight, way to go buddy).

There are silly carnival activities, there are new mechs, new encounters, new ideas on full display that work. The only real problem that the Night Market highlights is just how truly awful Craglorn is as a group-orientated zone. I'd like to think ZOS will re-visit Craglorn and give it a similar feel in terms of the whole zone being a "group" area, and having the same aggro mechanics on the mobs.

Will everyone like the Night Market, of course not, You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Edit: Just for context, the vast majority of time I spend in-game is as a solo player. I've killed every boss in the Night Market as a solo player (albeit joining in the fight where others are taking it on). To me this isn't the anti-thesis of "play as you want", it's the epitomy of it.

Malprave · May 3

You want to help others? The key mech is clearly designed to ensure that there are players running the district who can help others.

Athory · May 3

Malprave wrote: »

You want to help others? The key mech is clearly designed to ensure that there are players running the district who can help others.

Can’t agree more, you’re 100% right about that.
What if I just want to help some mates with a trial? Why should I go farm bosses, farm keys, and run dungeons?! I want to choose who I help, not be forced by ZOS to help others. You get it.

I refuse to be used as "cannon fodder by ZOS just to satisfy other people’s needs." In a trial\dungeons, we all work toward the same objective. Not here, not in this case. This is being “forced to participate,” similar to how they handle Alliance War skills. PvE players just end up being fed to PvP players.

EDIT:
[snip] market stay alive for another 45 days? Yes? Let’s wait 10 days. Let people get all the stuff, and then you’ll see players crying about “there’s no one to help,” “we can’t do this or that,” etc. People will get tired, they’ll move on, and then… no one left to feed the market players. Wanna bet?

Gabriel_H · May 3

Athory wrote: »

What if I just want to help some mates with a trial? Why should I go farm bosses, farm keys, and run dungeons?! I want to choose who I help, not be forced by ZOS to help others. You get it.

If they are not willing to help you run around for all of an hour or two to get all the dungeon keys, and clear the dungeons, so that you can go into the trial, are they really "mates"?

Ashnarug · May 3

Athory wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

I refuse to be used as "cannon fodder by ZOS just to satisfy other people’s needs."

Thank you for the warning. From what I read this Night Market is as bad as the Battle of the Writhing Wall Event, the reason I left the game for 4 months. The event destoyed two of my characters as I could not return to a saved game (normal for MMO).

In other words, the Night Market experience is not for me.

Athory · May 3

Ashnarug wrote: »

Thank you for the warning. From what I read this Night Market is as bad as the Battle of the Writhing Wall Event, the reason I left the game for 4 months. The event destoyed two of my characters as I could not return to a saved game (normal for MMO).

In other words, the Night Market experience is not for me.

Yeah, this new [snip] market is almost 100% the same as the Writhing Wall event. Do you remember the final boss bug, when people couldn’t kill him?

Well, now we have a real “hardcore difficulty” experience (Worse by far than Dark Souls… can you imagine that… in ESO?), where you actually need others to play this PvE\Solo game.
After 5~15 minutes fighting a boss… guess what? If you die, you stay dead, or you risk losing the opportunity to claim your reward. Yep! If you revive to go back and fight and actually play the game, but the boss dies while you’re respawning (30s +/-, I believe), you get no reward.

Is it a bug? Is it intended? I don’t know. But one thing is 100% certain: all this [snip] market gameplay only works if players are used as “cannon fodder to satisfy other people’s needs.”

SolidBeast · May 3

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

What if I just want to help some mates with a trial? Why should I go farm bosses, farm keys, and run dungeons?! I want to choose who I help, not be forced by ZOS to help others. You get it.

If they are not willing to help you run around for all of an hour or two to get all the dungeon keys, and clear the dungeons, so that you can go into the trial, are they really "mates"?

They're not real mates if they don't wanna spend another two hours to do the repetitive content they just did so they can do the content everyone wants to do? That's hilarious. In order to not waste anyone's time, OP would have had to grind the same content at the same time as their mates. People have lives, you know. I don't have a horse in this race, but ZOS DID split up OP's group because they can't organically join their mates whenever they want to without pre-grinding things (over and over again if they want to do it again).

Tallon_IV · May 3

It's grown on me. I still wish the rewards were better, but I had a good time in the trial. I'm just hoping it doesn't die in activity before I can finish the pursuits.

Gabriel_H · May 3

SolidBeast wrote: »

They're not real mates if they don't wanna spend another two hours to do the repetitive content they just did so they can do the content everyone wants to do? That's hilarious. In order to not waste anyone's time, OP would have had to grind the same content at the same time as their mates. People have lives, you know. I don't have a horse in this race, but ZOS DID split up OP's group because they can't organically join their mates whenever they want to without pre-grinding things (over and over again if they want to do it again).

I have people I run with, lets call them "mates". I completed most things by Wednesday. Some of my mates weren't around until Thurdsay, some Friday, and some aren't around until tonight. Guess what I did Thursday, Friday and will do again tonight?!

Whisper: Because you know it's a game, and running around with people you like, and some you tolerate (you know who you are), is ... fun!

SolidBeast · May 3

Very little about the Night Market is fun, so we'll disagree there. I just find the idea that OP doesn't have "real mates" because ZOS created needlessly tedious, repetitive content laughable.

agelonestar · May 3

I am getting a little tired of hearing how "people are generally enjoying it".

I run an established guild and we're always full. If I compare this "event" to any other event in ESO history, the volume of my membership playing in the Night Market is small. Sure, some people are enjoying it, some people are dipping their toe in for an occasional blast, but the overwhelming majority of players seem to be asking the same questions:

1. Why is it set so hard? What was the point of that? Doesn't that exclude most of us?
2. What's the objective? What am I trying to do or achieve?

My experience of playing in the Night Market is the same: groups are forming and falling apart quickly as they're rudderless and nobody (ok, very few people) knows what they're doing. There are too many instances. The zone feels empty.

This isn't something that has been really popular. It's a swing and a miss.

Paramedicus · May 3

I don't usually do quests in ESO because it bores me (too much "medicore" writing and a generally un-immersive experience). I don't feel the need to post 999 tantrums on the ESO forums about it. I don't feel the need to call out hardcore questers (because everyone has the right to watch "medicore" TV shows or read sloppy novels).

Note: I'm not a huge fan of NM – I don't think it's the pinnacle of group content design. It seems tedious at first, but once you figure it out, you can quickly get what you need. It's also in a weird spot in terms of difficulty: it's both too easy and too hard. The difficulty is somewhere on par with older DLC dungeons (obviously not HM - it's so funny when some people compare it to vet trials or HMs XD). The problem is that it's too easy for people doing group content (you can steamroll through it with pug blindly, bc most of the mechanics are re-used + are not very punishing). And it's too hard for die-hard questers who simply don't understand how weak they are at the game (the problem is not that you are not in the elite 1%, but that you are in the bottom 10-20% of players without realizing it).

In short: less tantrums – more git guding, or just don't play the content that's not for you.

SilverBride · May 3

The Night Market destroyed everything One Tamriel brought that saved this game from the mess Craglorn brought. So 12 years later they decide to try something like that again but only many times worse.

I don''t know how this idea slipped by but this is by far the worst thing they have ever done.

Fortunately for me I am not affected by FOMO so it's easy for me to just not participate. From what I see there aren't any rewards worth grinding for anyway.

Let's see what happens when the new wears off. *crickets*

newnamtab · May 3

Quite agree..

I was sitting with the exact same feeling.
When I got the initial frustration under control, I just sat around thinking: "Why did my character go here?"
I went there, and then what?
Well you go over there and fight monsters..
Okay.. Then what?
You can do that light thingy 80ies arcade game perhaps?
Or look at those boulders coming out of the wall?
Okay.. What are they?
How did The Ruckus get hold of this game?
And why would they send an agent to knock boulder around to increase "favours" ?
If I just stay out of that Market, nothings gonna happen..
Its like a a 30% discount sale at Ikea.. Why would I care?
I'm left with picking ressources and killing innocents with blade of woe, just to get some of them FOMO-coins.

Not sure I quite understand this season model..
It somehow seem very experimental, and we get served some experimental content (maybe) 4 times a year, and if players like it, it may be permanent..
If thats the case, then I think i'm gonna call it quits.

Gabriel_H · May 3

agelonestar wrote: »

1. Why is it set so hard? What was the point of that? Doesn't that exclude most of us?
2. What's the objective? What am I trying to do or achieve?

1. It's group-orientated content, like Dungeons and Trials are, or how Public Dungeons are supposed to be. To be different. No, you just need to hard or soft group.
2. It's a game. Have fun.

LadyGP · May 3

Yeah, I just can't relate to these kind of people/takes.

The NM has been a blast - it's really difficult - I love all the event style things - love how there is just so much going on - so much to do in each zone, etc.

And honestly - if this is making you have that strong of an emotional response... take some time off and try to relax a bit...ii

katanagirl1 · May 4

Well it took me way longer than 2 hours to get all of the keys, I think I have spent probably 6 hours with guildies (of course I had to redo some bosses as people dropped in and out) and maybe 4 hours on my own and in the the group finder.

For someone like me who is not super sweaty it is brutal. The mobs have tons of health, hit hard, and there are lots of them. The bosses can be tough and you will die a lot even in a group, but it can be a fun and rewarding experience to get through it.

As for Craglorn, please do not make it like this zone. I have been enjoying the way it is now for many years and I would not want it to be turned into this.

heimdall14_9 · May 4

Athory wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

You want to help others? The key mech is clearly designed to ensure that there are players running the district who can help others.

Can’t agree more, you’re 100% right about that.
What if I just want to help some mates with a trial? Why should I go farm bosses, farm keys, and run dungeons?! I want to choose who I help, not be forced by ZOS to help others. You get it.

I refuse to be used as "cannon fodder by ZOS just to satisfy other people’s needs." In a trial\dungeons, we all work toward the same objective. Not here, not in this case. This is being “forced to participate,” similar to how they handle Alliance War skills. PvE players just end up being fed to PvP players.

EDIT:
[snip] market stay alive for another 45 days? Yes? Let’s wait 10 days. Let people get all the stuff, and then you’ll see players crying about “there’s no one to help,” “we can’t do this or that,” etc. People will get tired, they’ll move on, and then… no one left to feed the market players. Wanna bet?

just like any other content in the game ? good thing here is this goes away in 45 days , then something new comes and guess what 15 -20 days in its going to be just another spot on the map dead like the rest of the world is in 98% of the areas , if its not a main hub its dies fast

Sallymen · May 4

Maybe the true Night Market experience are the friends we made along the way.

iGuavaTH · May 4

When I entered for the first time, the difficulty was a chock, undo-able.

But it forced me to actually get better. I like to think that I am a much better player today than I was just a few days ago. Sometimes I run totally solo, killing mobs, sometimes I run into a group and follow them around killing bosses, sometimes I actually use the group finder to join a group, that is a new for me. I have been running solo ever since I came back to ESO before Solstice after a long break.

NM have made me realize that I am actually a better player than I thought. I might even start to run DLC dungeons again.

I don't mind the poor drops, I do this to improve and I love it.

Thank you ZOS!

jad11mumbler · May 4

Been having a blast with my guilds.

Thanks for the great zone ZoS!

Great to get some more open group content in the game for a change.

Only so many times my guilds could go about farming world bosses for guild events..

10/10 update.

heimdall14_9 · May 4

iGuavaTH wrote: »

When I entered for the first time, the difficulty was a chock, undo-able.

But it forced me to actually get better. I like to think that I am a much better player today than I was just a few days ago. Sometimes I run totally solo, killing mobs, sometimes I run into a group and follow them around killing bosses, sometimes I actually use the group finder to join a group, that is a new for me. I have been running solo ever since I came back to ESO before Solstice after a long break.

NM have made me realize that I am actually a better player than I thought. I might even start to run DLC dungeons again.

I don't mind the poor drops, I do this to improve and I love it.

Thank you ZOS!

you ( we the player ) are our biggest fear when it comes to playing a game, just do it and see. thats the fun thing about it being a game.