Empty Night Markets

Lord_Archaic · May 2

Every single instance I've been in have been literally empty. Where I'm either the only person, or there's maybe two other people. In what world is that normal? Where are the instances that make it so the team points justified? Other posts are saying there's a cap of like 36 players? Why? And how am I not getting into these instances even by chance?

Because as of this post, on x1na, Ruckus has ~2.1m, Goad has 5.13m, and The Eyes have 9.95m.

Where is everyone, how are solo players supposed to group up with people? Or zerg it when the zones are, for all intent and purposes, empty? Because no one uses the activity finder, and those that do, when you ask for tanks/healers, you get dps that queue as tanks or healers to get into the group. Thus ruining it for others when they're not doing what they're queued as.

When no one talks in guild chats, I'm in 3 guilds that have a somewhat active base, none of which talk. Or respond in the guild chat. So again, how is anyone supposed to find a group to do anything, if that's what the devs intend to do, when the avenues to do so are sob blocked up or just not being used?

Nordstern · May 2

While I think most criticism towards night market is unjustified, this one is a real problem. Why make a zone like this and limit the player amount so hard? When in an instance solo you never know IF there are enough players in it and WHERE they are. There should at least be indicators for EVERY boss (not only main one and skirmish) if it's being attacked. But generally I think 36 players (if thats true) is way too low for a whole instance.

Paramedicus · May 2

use gf, create your own groups; hopefully this event will teach people to use gf more and make schizoid playstyle bit less popular

ectoplasmicninja · May 2

There's a 36 player cap, but it applies to the entire area - the plaza and all of the districts. Chances are that there may well be 35 other people on your instance, but in a district you're not in.

I've been using the group finder > event zone, and just joining whichever group is in the district I want to do things in, or is doing the skirmish I want, or whatever. It's very fluid, so join group, travel to leader, do thing, and then be prepared for many people to drop group immediately after as they run off to turn in quests or join a different group to do something else. You may likewise need to join and leave several groups in a session to get everything done.

Alternatively, make your own group for whatever your goal is, and it will almost certainly fill pretty quickly.

BergisMacBride · May 2

Paramedicus wrote: »

use gf, create your own groups; hopefully this event will teach people to use gf more and make schizoid playstyle bit less popular

^^ This. I’ve been playing since the beginning and almost always play solo. It’s been a blast. After the first day with empty instances I started using the gf to get things done. Now I have all the relics/keys and am ready to do the dungeons. I do still solo with my sneak build to do the area dailies although I wish they could be shared like the faction quests.

Lord_Archaic · May 2

Paramedicus wrote: »

use gf, create your own groups; hopefully this event will teach people to use gf more and make schizoid playstyle bit less popular

That would be nice.....but there's no posts in it......I'm on x1na on a Saturday at 9am.....where is everything, everyone?

Nothing but crickets. I'll throw a post up, and nobody will join....

How am I to respond to this asinine comment when no one uses the Group Finder to begin with?

Danikat · May 2

I'm not sure about other servers, but on PC EU there's been a lot of groups in the group finder, all in the Event Zone section. It might take a bit of waiting (or starting your own) to find one doing what you want to do, but it's worked for me.

That's the only way I've been able to find populated instances and therefore get even the solo quests done. It's a bit annoying because it means having to tag along with a group then quickly run off or ignore what they're doing to complete a quest objective, which isn't ideal for anyone, but it worked.

My guilds have also been organising runs, but not at times I could be online unfortunately.

Athory · May 2

Let me get this straight, the [snip] market is basically trash, most players either hate it or don’t even bother with it, and you we’re expecting it to be full? Why, exactly? Because a handful of people enjoy it? Well… congratulations, you’ve got them inside. Oh wait, a few might be offline. Don’t worry, just hang around. They’ll be back eventually… And if you’re outside the Thousand Eyes zone… well, just go solo! ZOS designed it for groups, but hey, solo players should be able to… manage, right? Go on, try it solo... after all, the [snip] market is so unbelievably fun, right?

Soarora · May 2

Athory wrote: »

Let me get this straight, the [snip] market is basically trash, most players either hate it or don’t even bother with it, and you we’re expecting it to be full? Why, exactly? Because a handful of people enjoy it? Well… congratulations, you’ve got them inside. Oh wait, a few might be offline. Don’t worry, just hang around. They’ll be back eventually… And if you’re outside the Thousand Eyes zone… well, just go solo! ZOS designed it for groups, but hey, solo players should be able to… manage, right? Go on, try it solo... after all, the [snip] market is so unbelievably fun, right?

It is full. It just doesn’t look like it. Twice now I’ve been in groups that have filled within minutes from putting up a group finder listing. Literally people coming out of the woodworks, joining every second.

valenwood_vegan · May 2

It's fun with a group. Particularly an organized one. We had a guild run last night and did all the bosses - the zone works well for something like that. Finding a group on your own can be very hit or miss.

Group finder is the best option, but there aren't always groups available at off hours; some of the groups are not organized or able to do the content or have a different agenda from you or they fall apart; sometimes they work out. When you have limited time to play and waste half the time trying to group, it's less enjoyable.

If one just ports in solo or with a friend expecting to find people around (which is something zos specifically said in their streams - people could "soft-group" and follow other players around in the zone), this is where it falls apart completely. Unfortunately, this is kind of the default for how a lot of players do stuff in eso (or they use the random dungeon queue to group - point is, they are not used to pre-grouping).

Most instances appear empty. It would benefit from a higher population cap (and maybe smarter instancing that places players into instances where there is currently activity - I do realize this would be potentially complex, it's just a suggestion). Indications on the map or in the UI about where other players are located / where combat is taking place / etc., could be helpful here too.

I know people are gonna argue and scream JUST GROUP at me (I've completed pretty much everything in NM except the trial / and have finished the pursuit / the tome challenge, so thanks I'm good), but zos needs to understand who plays this game in general and throw them a bone.

It's not the difficulty, it's the awkward grouping when throwing together players who are not used to that and a new type of content that requires groups but doesn't make that clear (and doesn't make it clear where and how to find them). And the various group-unfriendly design choices in what is clearly a group zone.

Athory · May 2

This whole [snip] Market could be fun, the idea is actually solid. But not like this. In its current state, it just doesn’t work. With some proper changes from ZoS, it could genuinely become a great piece of content.

Add Normal and Veteran modes

Like almost everything else in ESO, this needs difficulty tiers. Right now it feels badly tuned , either frustrating or unrewarding depending on how you approach it. A proper Normal/Veteran split would make it accessible while still giving challenge to players who want it.

Fix the rewards to match the difficulty

At the moment, the risk vs. reward is completely off. If content is going to be this demanding, the rewards need to feel worth the time and effort. Right now, they just don’t. It's 100% [snip][snip]!

Add meaningful incentives (titles, achievements, collectibles)
ESO already does this well in dungeons\trials and Arenas, unique titles, skins, collectibles, etc. That’s what keeps players coming back. This content needs the same treatment if it’s supposed to stay relevant.

Etc… just make it ESO-style!

To be fair, I do like the core concept. Having different bosses in a single zone is a great idea, and it adds variety in a way ESO really benefits from. The foundation is there. But the execution? It's [snip][snip][snip][snip]!

EDIT:

All this [snip] Market reminds me of the Maelstrom Arena… I hate it so much. And to be honest, the only thing that ever surpassed my frustration with it is this [snip] Market.

But with Maelstrom Arena, every time you complete it, you improve at something. You learn how to avoid this or that, how to do better next time. And the rewards? Always something different, something that feels earned. I hate it, sure… but I understand it. Some content is meant to be different and harder than others. At least you learn, and at least you get meaningful rewards.
But what does this [snip] Market give us? A monster set? Come on…

By the way… how many of the players saying they love this [snip] Market don’t even have the Maelstrom Arena trifecta, just because they hate it even more than I do? And now they love this? Lol! Are you joking??

ESO_player123 · May 2

I'm not in any guild, so organized groups are out of the question for me. So far, I've been able to find PUGs in GF for all my needs on PCNA. Granted, it's only have been a few days, and may be it will become worse with time. But I think the need to farm keys will make people form groups there for at least some time.

It's true that without GF finding other players in districts is really hard. So, I recommend using it at least on PCNA.

Toanis · May 2

Yes grouping solves the issue, but when you need to use group finder to play the game mode, that kinda defies the idea of a public zone you can enter and have fun banding together with other players nearby. When soloing doesn't get you far in group content, fair enough, but when soft grouping also isn't an option then the "event zone" is really just a trial with a huge lobby.

All that said, you can still have solo fun playing the side quests like a run & hide adventure.

And another thing: I absolutely love the short leash distances, please add that to the rest of the game. I'm pretty sure it will also be good for server performance when mobs don't chase me halfway across the map, just to hit me once and run back.

Paramedicus · May 2

Lord_Archaic wrote: »

Paramedicus wrote: »

use gf, create your own groups; hopefully this event will teach people to use gf more and make schizoid playstyle bit less popular

That would be nice.....but there's no posts in it......I'm on x1na on a Saturday at 9am.....where is everything, everyone?

Nothing but crickets. I'll throw a post up, and nobody will join....

How am I to respond to this asinine comment when no one uses the Group Finder to begin with?

idk, maybe consoles are dead? it is almost midnight in PC EU and there are 15-20 posts in GF

ZomZom · May 2

I did GF and joined a group but I couldn't get to them because there was...death in the way. "Travel to player" doesn't put you close enough to the group. Am I missing something?

DeathStalker · May 2

Nordstern wrote: »

While I think most criticism towards night market is unjustified, this one is a real problem. Why make a zone like this and limit the player amount so hard? When in an instance solo you never know IF there are enough players in it and WHERE they are. There should at least be indicators for EVERY boss (not only main one and skirmish) if it's being attacked. But generally I think 36 players (if thats true) is way too low for a whole instance.

I could be wrong, but I believe the Devs said on PTS that the one reason for the cap is to force people to group. If there were no cap, then there would be no reason to group if enough people were in the zone. Again, I could be wrong, but this is what I walked away from PTS thinking was the devs' opinion on this.

Paramedicus · May 2

ZomZom wrote: »

I did GF and joined a group but I couldn't get to them because there was...death in the way. "Travel to player" doesn't put you close enough to the group. Am I missing something?

Try to get to the group - mobs loose the interest pretty quick. If you die just run in the ghost form

Soarora · May 2

ZomZom wrote: »

I did GF and joined a group but I couldn't get to them because there was...death in the way. "Travel to player" doesn't put you close enough to the group. Am I missing something?

I think this is why the respawn timer is so long. You should be able to make it to group from an oasis as long as you can figure out where to go.

Silaf · May 2

Athory wrote: »

Let me get this straight, the [snip] market is basically trash, most players either hate it or don’t even bother with it, and you we’re expecting it to be full? Why, exactly? Because a handful of people enjoy it? Well… congratulations, you’ve got them inside. Oh wait, a few might be offline. Don’t worry, just hang around. They’ll be back eventually… And if you’re outside the Thousand Eyes zone… well, just go solo! ZOS designed it for groups, but hey, solo players should be able to… manage, right? Go on, try it solo... after all, the [snip] market is so unbelievably fun, right?

So far most people in my guilds love it.
Maybe you have problems forming a group? I'm having a lot of fun.

Orbital78 · May 2

25+ people, 19+ people, and late night 13+. It is a group activity, some guilds are going harder than others. This guild has been going hard like this nearly every night since it opened. Kudos to the GM and team.

allochthons · May 3

Does anyone know if /zone covers the plaza and all three precincts?

When I find a zerg, or am in a big group, I'll put in zone chat "Zerg in N. Skittering" or something similar, to help out the solos, let them come surf. But I haveen't tested to see if it crosses out of the precinct.

valenwood_vegan · May 3

allochthons wrote: »

Does anyone know if /zone covers the plaza and all three precincts?

When I find a zerg, or am in a big group, I'll put in zone chat "Zerg in N. Skittering" or something similar, to help out the solos, let them come surf. But I haveen't tested to see if it crosses out of the precinct.

That's an interesting question. I will say, I haven't seen *anything* ever said in zone the entire time I've been in night market, except for a handful of LFG's. It definitely made me wonder the same thing.

JemadarofCaerSalis · May 3

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

Does anyone know if /zone covers the plaza and all three precincts?

When I find a zerg, or am in a big group, I'll put in zone chat "Zerg in N. Skittering" or something similar, to help out the solos, let them come surf. But I haveen't tested to see if it crosses out of the precinct.

That's an interesting question. I will say, I haven't seen *anything* ever said in zone the entire time I've been in night market, except for a handful of LFG's. It definitely made me wonder the same thing.

Same here.

Last time I tried it and got an answer, the person who answered was in Skittering, as was I. There were a lot of others who showed up as well that time, but I do not know if they were just running around the zone or were part of that group or had come in from other districts.

So, yeah, I had been wondering if the zone chat extends to the other districts, or are they their own zones, but same instance or what?

I know some people have been saying they haven't been getting a loading screen, but I am pretty sure I am (it has the night market and tip across the bottom), when I go to the different districts.

Syldras · May 3

Zone chat is visible in all 3 districts as well as in the plaza.

At least that would be my assumption. I had been grouped in Skittering this evening, left group when I had the fragments I wanted, directly portalled to the plaza and entered another district immediately, and then I could see a chat message of one of the people I had grouped with in Skittering, asking for more people for another boss there. I don't think that guy followed me into another district to send that message.

Ravynmagi · May 3

Just adding my two cents hoping they up this zone cap. It feels way too low. It's always empty.

Danikat · May 3

ZomZom wrote: »

I did GF and joined a group but I couldn't get to them because there was...death in the way. "Travel to player" doesn't put you close enough to the group. Am I missing something?

I had this problem with my first group. I don't think the person who started the group realised you can't teleport directly to people (or even to the nearest respawn point) in the Nightmarket. They got out to a boss and then started a group and when people asked how to get there they just kept saying "come to me".

I "solved" the problem by dying and then waiting at the respawn point until a few other people showed up, then we all ran together and were able to get there alive. (Thankfully the leader at least knew not to start the boss fight before everyone was there.)

The second and third groups I had were a bit better, one they waited in the middle until the group filled up and then we all went into the district together and the other people were waiting just inside the door.

I think it's yet another unexpected change from most of the game we'll just have to get used to working around.

Gabriel_H · May 3

Nordstern wrote: »

While I think most criticism towards night market is unjustified, this one is a real problem. Why make a zone like this and limit the player amount so hard? When in an instance solo you never know IF there are enough players in it and WHERE they are. There should at least be indicators for EVERY boss (not only main one and skirmish) if it's being attacked. But generally I think 36 players (if thats true) is way too low for a whole instance.

Bosses can be killed by a dedicated 4-man. Having 150 players in the zone would make the boss fights meaningless.

Gabriel_H · May 3

Syldras wrote: »

Zone chat is visible in all 3 districts as well as in the plaza.

At least that would be my assumption. I had been grouped in Skittering this evening, left group when I had the fragments I wanted, directly portalled to the plaza and entered another district immediately, and then I could see a chat message of one of the people I had grouped with in Skittering, asking for more people for another boss there. I don't think that guy followed me into another district to send that message.

Zone chat is shared among all districts for that instance.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 3

Most of my groups fill up pretty fast. Ive had many interesting groups because not everyone is at the same stage with keys, which is a good thing. I think its a method that prevents farming (which is good) and allows others to find a group as we all must keep running it since we cannot stockpile keys (which is also a good thing).

I try to take advantage of the random people I pick up from Zone, often times they have people who want to join too. The whole working together aspect is fun and interesting. And working with people you don't know is exciting! We cleared the trial with complete strangers, having to work together. It was one of the most beautiful things Ive ever seen in Eso! Not gatekeeping, no toxic behavior, just straight up determination and collaboration.