A Consideration of Empathy (Night Market)

Psyphiman · May 1

Arunei wrote: »

Why does everyone keep going on about the NM being designated as a group Zone like it was advertised as strictly being for groups? It feels like so many people are being disingenuous to try and make an argument here.

The NM was marketed as being something where grouping was encouraged, not required and as something meant for both groups AND experienced solo players. Why are so many people deadset on ignoring this fact and just doubling down on "it's a group Zone"? It was never advertised as group-only so it would be nice if people would stop replying as though solo players were never meant to succeed here. They were. They said it in the livestream, it's mentioned in the article. Solo players ARE at least supposed to have a place in the NM according to their marketing.

But that isn't the case, clearly, as experienced players are stating it's too hard. Even people who have been running in groups, like everyone keeps acting like is meant to be the only way of doing the NM, have posted saying they couldn't really do anything because their groups kept dying.

Solo players are supposed to be able to do this content, as stated by ZOS themselves. If a majority of experienced solo players are actually having a really hard or even impossible time getting through even one or two trash packs, that indicates that something needs to be changed.

Also why are so many people resorting to calling others have issues 'casuals'? Why belittle players who you have no idea whether they're casual or not (unless they specify they are or not) and just make assumptions for the sake of your arguments that people who are unable to progress solo must be casuals who just suck at the game or something? It's dismissive and shuts down conversation.

Do you have a quote to back your claim that ZOS said Night Market was for solo players. I think you’re reinventing facts.

colossalvoids · May 1

Psyphiman wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Why does everyone keep going on about the NM being designated as a group Zone like it was advertised as strictly being for groups? It feels like so many people are being disingenuous to try and make an argument here.

The NM was marketed as being something where grouping was encouraged, not required and as something meant for both groups AND experienced solo players. Why are so many people deadset on ignoring this fact and just doubling down on "it's a group Zone"? It was never advertised as group-only so it would be nice if people would stop replying as though solo players were never meant to succeed here. They were. They said it in the livestream, it's mentioned in the article. Solo players ARE at least supposed to have a place in the NM according to their marketing.

But that isn't the case, clearly, as experienced players are stating it's too hard. Even people who have been running in groups, like everyone keeps acting like is meant to be the only way of doing the NM, have posted saying they couldn't really do anything because their groups kept dying.

Solo players are supposed to be able to do this content, as stated by ZOS themselves. If a majority of experienced solo players are actually having a really hard or even impossible time getting through even one or two trash packs, that indicates that something needs to be changed.

Also why are so many people resorting to calling others have issues 'casuals'? Why belittle players who you have no idea whether they're casual or not (unless they specify they are or not) and just make assumptions for the sake of your arguments that people who are unable to progress solo must be casuals who just suck at the game or something? It's dismissive and shuts down conversation.

Do you have a quote to back your claim that ZOS said Night Market was for solo players. I think you’re reinventing facts.

Guess they're just taking "encourage grouping" as if it's soloable and not as you still need people with you, but grouped up would be simpler way of doing things. Read: soft grouping. Though you can quest completely solo and trash packs need more focus but obviously quite soloable, only WB's need at least a couple buddies and more for comfortable and fast play.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 1

I cannot even begin to comprehend how there are players calling this content difficult. It is way easier than vet trials and most vet dungeons.

At this point, is the game’s casual playerbase so clueless that it extends beyond combat skill and into not even being able to use the group finder properly? Is it really that bad right now?

BardokRedSnow · May 1

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

I cannot even begin to comprehend how there are players calling this content difficult. It is way easier than vet trials and most vet dungeons.

At this point, is the game’s casual playerbase so clueless that it extends beyond combat skill and into not even being able to use the group finder properly? Is it really that bad right now?

it is and I think its because for years thats the audience Zos cultivated.

I went in with a soloing/duoing build and was doing just fine, even was able to quasi tank for most of my time in night market on that build while doing some dps.

Then I grouped with people who didnt wanna do the spider mechs for the one skirmish where you gotta keep the fires going to burn the red buggers, and if you have a group of 12 who arent even kitted for IA, its gonna be rough and you need to do mechs especially.

We did it, but a few of them who wiped dozens of times came at me because my role said tank and I was tanking somewhat but im not a full pve tank on this toon. Specifically because I am pugging and expecting to not have people consistently be there to help me kill mobs. They join, get the boss they need then leave.

So instead of thanking me for getting them through the content at least and explaining mechs, they came at me for their dying so often and not keeping taunt. Again I'm not actually a tank on that setup and the group finder did not say roles required. Keep in mind the kind of dps I had with me also. One of them was bow ulting a random trash mob, not even the boss, and it didnt even kill the trash mob.

The community is in rough shape rn.

Firstmep · May 1

It's a group zone. Be in a group. It really is that simple. The game has a decade worth of solo questing content, I bet most people that complain about NM haven't even done all of that.
The next update is going to bring more solo quest content, and droves too.

Firstmep · May 1

TairenSoul wrote: »

I feel like there's a lot of toxicity coming from "casual" players too that just assume everyone else is out to get them, when in reality, there are so many people running around with PUGs from the group finder that couldn't care less about how many hours you have, what level you are, or how many vet trials you've completed.

I have yet to read a toxic post from a casual player aimed specifically at a vet player. I HAVE read toxicity and name calling the other way around. I don't consider myself a casual player. I have been playing since 6 months after the game began. I play every day for hours. To say no one's cares what level you are or what build you have is not true, imo. Vet players don't normally open their arms to people who don't know mechs, etc. If you really don't care, I suggest you open yourself up to lead a group of solo players! Telling a solo player to use group finder is missing the point, also! There is nothing wrong with everyone wanting to play newly released content!

I've read plenty of comments calling anyone who likes NM an elite or 1%. That in on itself is toxic already.

Alaztor91 · May 1

Tbh they could nerf the trash mobs a bit. No one is farming trash packs for the chance to get the blue orb favor thing, in fact the fastest boss farm group that I have been in was just running past the trash packs straight to the Brazen/Ardent bosses and just killing the last pack since most of the others would simply leash back to their spawn locations.

Other than for the Splinter and the ''Kill 75 enemies'' quest(which you can probably get with the trash mobs that are next to a boss), I see no reason to bother with the trash packs. If you want to do the races, puzzles or the other ''find X thing Y times'' quests it's better to just run or stealth past mobs anyways.

dcrush · May 1

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

I cannot even begin to comprehend how there are players calling this content difficult. It is way easier than vet trials and most vet dungeons.

At this point, is the game’s casual playerbase so clueless that it extends beyond combat skill and into not even being able to use the group finder properly? Is it really that bad right now?

My experiences with pugs so far have been mostly positive but what I have seen a lot is:

* Eleven players hugging a wall to avoid a mob that’s not worth fighting. The twelfth player… sees eleven people go right and they go left instead, pulling the mob.
* People being told in group to please rez at the shrine and run back during a skirmish or wandering boss fight (because it’s faster and more reliable and it’s explained to them) REFUSING to do so because they don’t want to make the effort of running back and instead they stay dead and complain about not being rezzed. Usually they grab boss loot and then leave group with a snarky comment.
* People parsing or light attacking a boss that’s in an invulnerable phase. And who keep doing so after being reminded multiple times in chat that it won’t work.
* People not understanding the concept of instances or how to port to the same instance as the group leader.
* People know knowing there is a group finder.

I have seen all of this and not just by new players. I’m talking about CP1500+.

I don’t know which game these people have been playing until now but it seems to be different than the one I’ve been playing.

Silaf · May 1

End game players need some content too once in a blue moon. Finally i can fight again.
Some choiches in the night market have a discutible design and some akivements like the rolling boulder puzzles at times don't get awarded to some random members in the group but overall i'm finally playing the game again.

Every time something get introduced is the same discussion about how new players can do it or people with little time can do it.
The result is that we have a series of easily obtained fetch quests.
Economy is broken because all crafting materials need to be easily obtained resulting in a similar problem.
High time investment achivements like champion points or collecting all crafting stations earn you essentially nothing because dedicated players simply get forgotten.

Not all content must be for you. I can't do most trifacta trials but i can live with it.

ESO is an enormous game pick the activity you like and complete it.
Your character is your unique adventure and the winning condition what you consider fun.
Accepting some are simply not for you is part of the game.

Pcgamer · May 1

@coop500 ...I read your post OP and felt so much empathy which is rare these days, thank you. ❤️

I was going to create my own post but here you are with a voice for us that have struggled with Night market, not cos we are deliberately being rdbellious, not because we hate group content but simply cos we cannot beat it.

I no longer pvp like i used to back in the day in eso but when it is the mayhem event i go into cyro and give it a good go.

I am not in a raiding guild atm but i have farmed gear sets by joining LFG trials and i really loved healing those trials. I enjoyed the pug comraderie. I am not adversed to grouping with new and vet peeps

I pug dungeons all the time as a healer for transmutes and pledges.

I got my hubby to return to eso amd we enjoy IA.

What breaks my heart is that i /we have been locked out of this Night market content cos we could not find groups from the start of it and we went to the plaza all excited , we joined the faction we had researched and liked and then finalky we go in...theres one other random player, bless him and we start killing mobs....hubby in his tank build and myself in dd plus heals and we did kill a group of mobs but they respawned so fast that we were innundated or overpowered by insane damage. It just seemed too much

Note ive been playing eso since launch 2014 with just a few breaks. I know about LA, animation cancellation, cp, gear etc etc.
Im realising that many solo players that can solo it are pvp players, other use stealth builds with wizard wardrobe and then switch builds...many players had a head start in pts so now they know what to do.
Today i wanted to give it another go and i looked in group finder only to get confused by the lingo,or acronyms. I didnt know .
what group to join. Some groups were asking for relics...i had no clue what for.

Not every player plays on the pts.
We pay for a game we feel we are locked out of certain content, im not crying. I want to enjoy all eso content.

Katakehua · May 1

I couldn't agree more

twisttop138 · May 1

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

TairenSoul wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

I don't understand the discourse around this event at all. I'm pretty darn casual in PvE, Oakensoul and Order's Wrath lol, and so far I've been able to solo the trash mobs and quest just fine so far. With a buddy or two I can see the trash mobs becoming absolute cake. Sneak also seems viable for questing. My only regret is that Zerith-var has been put into the position of taking one or two hits for me before getting knocked out before the next group. Tuning the companions like they're tuned for infinite archive could be cool... even if only to save my heart.

Anyway, as of right now there's over ten MILLION points accrued by the factions on day two of the event. Knocking out a trash mob sometimes drops 30. Clearly, people are doing the content just fine. Get good and/or group, dude. Or just slot Oakensoul....

Can I ask what class you play? As an over level 3k dps mag arcanist, it's a no win for me. Even with Oakensoul and Deadly Strike.

Pure Templar: Oakensoul, Deadly, Order's Wrath, one piece Valkyn Skoria (though I might swap it for trainee chest and see how that goes). Sweeps is the bread n butter for damage and healing, Ritual cleanses and gives a bit more damge/healing depending on morph, and Razor Caltrops gives me AoE breach without using precious magicka. Flawless Dawnbreaker is truly flawless. I'm doing resolving vigor as my oshi heal and radiant glory for execute but if you're not aiming for bosses those could be flex imo.

Yeah. I stopped playing my Templars when they got nerfed to the ground years ago. As I stated in previous threads, NM is for certain players/builds. That's fine. I'm just disappointed as I feel it wasn't marketed that way. 🫤

I mean uh. Templars are clearly doing well enough now. The class meta changes constantly lol but you do you

Thanks for the tip! I'll dust off a Templar and give them a go at it!

Are you on PSNA by any chance?

Ezhh · May 1

I have to say: I am largely playing solo for all quests and I love that trash enemies are not something I can easily handle by myself. I love that I need to be smart about how I deal with them if I'm alone. It's the first time in ESO that stealth has genuinely felt meaningful and worthwhile to me.

I'm not berating anyone for being angry/annoyed/wanting the situation otherwise, and I wouldn't mind at all if there was an easier version, but for me personally toning down the trash would ruin the experience.

What I do wish is that instances had higher player caps, because then it would be more likely that solos having issues who don't even want to touch group finder will just run into others.

LunaFlora · May 1

Jammy420 wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i agree! Accessibility is important and options for more people would be very helpful.

Trash enemies being so challenging is not fun.
i wish that with Challenge Difficulty being added to Overland we could get a similar thing for Night Market, with lower difficulties instead of higher.
Hoping ZOS might do something like that at least when Night Market returns in Season 2.
it would only affect people who choose to use it, just like Update 50's Challenge Difficulty, especially with how few people i see in the Market.

Another thing that could be helpful is increasing the Bestial Transformation synergy locations and respawn time?
i am not entirely sure how many there are or how they spawn, but i saw 2 yesterday and they do make combat less frustrating for a minute or two.

Fine, but then you should also get less rewards. You do not get to do it on easy mode and then get all the same rewards.

what rewards?
the Weak Enemies give nothing for hours.

edited to add:
Why not address any specific part of my post?

Additionally,
Last night i went through the Parch and Skittering Precinct with a few groups, it went mostly well (because i am a well experienced healer).
I solo when i do not have energy for groups, but i do use the Group Finder when i want to and can.
i think even groups can benefit from optional buffs.

I do think an Easy or Normal mode should get the same rewards, difficulty modes are accessibility options. And the rewards are very very sparse.
- item sets i already have from base game, the quality varies so it is not as if it is always Purple/Epic to be equal to a Veteran mode.
- Splinters are guaranteed from the relevant bosses, but not from the Weak Enemies (can take hours or days).
- Leads are as always not guaranteed from anything and could take days or weeks for some people.
- i do not care about the old crafting materials or treasures.

Plus note that i suggested something similar to Challenge Difficulty which would only buff you if ZOS added it for Night Market, if you choose to use it.
And asked for an increase of an existing feature in the Market, the Bestial Transformation which turns you into a Werewolf Behemoth.

SerafinaWaterstar · May 1

Love how this thread was about having empathy and perhaps some patience & consideration and then it gets the same posts as other threads being derogative about casuals & you just need to group/git good. 🙄

I am what might be considered an ‘elite’ player. I spend most of my time in game doing vet hm on trials & dungeons. So the NM should be right up my street, yeah?

No. It’s awful. Just awful. It’s so badly designed I almost believe it’s done by AI.

Make it too hard for the majority of players, most of whom do not like big grouping, and play this game solo or with a couple of friends, and you wonder why people complain?

Oh but this is for those that enjoy group play, you say. Just join a group via GF and all will be rosy. With a pop cap of 36? Lol. Read the posts of those who have tried. And given up.

And if it is for group play, why make it such a grind? I’ve given up hope of doing the trial or dungeon or whatever because the time & logistics of first getting a group together, then all getting the right number of <whatever> to progress to the next bit, in a certain time frame as most of us have a life outside this game, seems ridiculous & unachievable.

And then, if I want to do the trial or dungeon again, I have to do the grind again?! Hell no.

In previous content for those ‘group players’ there are varying levels of difficulty, making it accessible to virtually everyone. Th NM is not.

And the idea that this is good as it gets players out of their comfort zone & makes them ‘get better’ is arrogant nonsense. Who are you to tell people how the should play & enjoy themselves? Not everyone plays a video game to stroke their own ego & become a dps (or whatever) god. My self worth is not dependant on killing pixilated enemies.

And for those who say there are areas of the game that they don’t like & don’t play, so why should everyone be able to everything - well, a major content drop that is making a lot of people not want to play the game AT ALL, is not the same as people not wanting to do housing or ToT.

Stop dividing the playerbase. Calling people casuals or elites or whatever. We all play the game and want it to succeed, but this is sadly another mis-step. And their owners won’t tolerate too many mis-steps. Especially if the money stops coming in.

CalamityCat · May 1

Empathy works both ways though. You also need to consider and allow other players to have different feelings and thoughts about ESO, even if they differ from yours. Without calling them elites, or accusing them of bullying because they simply have a different perspective or disagree with yours. It should give players the ability to accept other opinions/feelings as valid alongside their own.

I'm a very average player, with old pure class builds that are even more average. So I absolutely do empathise with those who are in a similar position. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that other casual players feel or believe. People can disagree passionately and still have empathy and compassion for the other player's situation.

I'm not "elite" because I'm okay with the difficulty in the Night Market. I've just been a gamer long enough to accept that difficult content exists, even if it is much harder for me to complete. I group up without complaining, even though it's outside my comfort zone sometimes. I am okay with bits of ESO being less fun for me when others do enjoy them. If I suck at something because I have the co-ordination of a blindfolded sloth, so be it.

Orbital78 · May 1

You're gonna learn today, it is training day. If you're struggling with a 12 man group, you're probably not ready for 4 man vet dungeons either. It is mostly mechanics from dungeons, bastion nymics, etc.

Aydh · May 1

First time last night I've ever listed a group in group finder. Was for one of the skirmishes. Worked great, we cleared it. Don't even know what level / cp everyone was. Did not matter. Great tool. Since this is a group event zone, perhaps one lesson here is group finder needs to be more prominent to help the more solo-focused people.

LadyGP · May 1

Vaqual wrote: »

I almost find such emotional appeals unfair. Many players have been asking for difficult open world content. It feels rewarding to seek out a group and beat the challenge exactly because there isn't a shortcut.

This.
MMOs are supposed to have hard group content. There are hard things for solos, hard things for groups, and hard things for out of group surfers.

The emotional, tug at the heart string, complaints are getting old.

People have been on the forums for years asking for harder content - you got it. Theres harder group content now, harder solo content coming, etc.

And if we are being honest - solos can totally do the Night Market outside of a group.

o_Primate_o · May 1

Arunei wrote: »

Why does everyone keep going on about the NM being designated as a group Zone like it was advertised as strictly being for groups? It feels like so many people are being disingenuous to try and make an argument here.

The NM was marketed as being something where grouping was encouraged, not required and as something meant for both groups AND experienced solo players. Why are so many people deadset on ignoring this fact and just doubling down on "it's a group Zone"? It was never advertised as group-only so it would be nice if people would stop replying as though solo players were never meant to succeed here. They were. They said it in the livestream, it's mentioned in the article. Solo players ARE at least supposed to have a place in the NM according to their marketing.

But that isn't the case, clearly, as experienced players are stating it's too hard. Even people who have been running in groups, like everyone keeps acting like is meant to be the only way of doing the NM, have posted saying they couldn't really do anything because their groups kept dying.

Solo players are supposed to be able to do this content, as stated by ZOS themselves. If a majority of experienced solo players are actually having a really hard or even impossible time getting through even one or two trash packs, that indicates that something needs to be changed.

Also why are so many people resorting to calling others have issues 'casuals'? Why belittle players who you have no idea whether they're casual or not (unless they specify they are or not) and just make assumptions for the sake of your arguments that people who are unable to progress solo must be casuals who just suck at the game or something? It's dismissive and shuts down conversation.

it is not that hard. i just came from a group of six of us (guild PUG) and we blew through brazen and ardent bosses in the Parch. You just need a good H and T and DDs who don't stand in stupid and get interrupts and rezes. A full group of 12 can complete skrimishes.

o_Primate_o · May 1

robertlabrie wrote: »

I sleep walk through most 4 person normal dungeons solo. Nightmarket is unplayable for me. I chip away at ESO in 15 or 20 minute chunks - do part of a quest, whatever. Gonna sit this one out. Y'all enjoy.

You can do district dailies on a tank with rapids/ring of wild hunt but the rewards aren't worth it. Run to quest location, find safe spot, sneak, tick quest, repeat.

Vaqual · May 1

Arunei wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

I almost find such emotional appeals unfair. Many players have been asking for difficult open world content. It feels rewarding to seek out a group and beat the challenge exactly because there isn't a shortcut.

Emotional appeal how? I'm simply pointing out that people are very conveniently ignoring the fact that ZOS themselves have marketed this Event Zone as something that is easier with a group, but grouping wasn't necessary and even though it would be hard, people could do it solo.

Except a lot of people can't. Those who can I'm very curious to see their builds because I keep seeing claims about "oh I'm casual but I have no problems with some unoptimized build" but no one actually showing what what their builds are.

And there IS difficult Overland activity. Dragons, Harrowstorms, etc. No one really does those anymore though, do they? Not outside of specific events that happen for them from time to time.

Also many people, myself included, have said that there being difficult stuff isn't bad. The NM could have been made about as hard as a Vet DLC Dungeon. The Bosses and other actual group content can be harder. But what a majority of people have a huge problem with is the trash packs where each mob feels like a WB. There was no reason for BASIC mobs to have this much health and do this much damage.

You can easily have more Overland group stuff that's difficult. We're saying that the entire Zone didn't have to be that way.

I replied to the thread, not your post.

tomofhyrule · May 1

Arunei wrote: »

Why does everyone keep going on about the NM being designated as a group Zone like it was advertised as strictly being for groups? It feels like so many people are being disingenuous to try and make an argument here.

The NM was marketed as being something where grouping was encouraged, not required and as something meant for both groups AND experienced solo players. Why are so many people deadset on ignoring this fact and just doubling down on "it's a group Zone"? It was never advertised as group-only so it would be nice if people would stop replying as though solo players were never meant to succeed here. They were. They said it in the livestream, it's mentioned in the article. Solo players ARE at least supposed to have a place in the NM according to their marketing.

Why does everyone go on about it being designed for groups?
Because they said it was. Repeatedly.

Just because they had some very carefully worded statements of "you will find it difficult if you're solo" doesn't mean that it's designed to be completable by the average solo player anyone can grab off the streets.

The fact is that grouping is not required. You can zerg surf as well, which is not a formal group. Players who have a lot of experience (aka have done Flawless Conqueror) can solo it. So yes, it's soloable; they were not lying. But yes, if you randomly picked a player from the entire playerbase and asked them to solo it, chances are they do not have the skill/gear required for it. Which again is not a problem. The problem is if this person doesn't want to learn and instead rages that the world whould bend to them and not the other way around.

This is the main issue I see. It's the difference between experienced soloists who struggle and think "I need to adjust my build to do better" versus the soloists who think "the content is wrong because I shouldn't have to change." Again, the former is the thinking that will allow someone to do the Night Market, while the latter may not realize what the problem really is.

I know some people have been demanding that we show builds, so here's what I wear:

Now this is really just my zerg-surf PvP stuff from a while back, but it works for me. It's not optimized. When I'm in a group, I change to my normal dungeon setup, but if I'm on my own, this is what I'm wearing.
I have zero issues with the mobs, save for the fact that I have like -2 DPS so each pull can take like 3 minutes. I went in last night around midnight and comfortably did the "kill 25/50/75" enemies quest, and even found one or two other players at one of the bosses to get that one down too. I'm mainly checking off the District quests and the one-eyed vampire kitty's kill things quest when I'm solo. It's slow, but it works.

Sephyr · May 1

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Why does everyone keep going on about the NM being designated as a group Zone like it was advertised as strictly being for groups? It feels like so many people are being disingenuous to try and make an argument here.

The NM was marketed as being something where grouping was encouraged, not required and as something meant for both groups AND experienced solo players. Why are so many people deadset on ignoring this fact and just doubling down on "it's a group Zone"? It was never advertised as group-only so it would be nice if people would stop replying as though solo players were never meant to succeed here. They were. They said it in the livestream, it's mentioned in the article. Solo players ARE at least supposed to have a place in the NM according to their marketing.

Why does everyone go on about it being designed for groups?
Because they said it was. Repeatedly.

Just because they had some very carefully worded statements of "you will find it difficult if you're solo" doesn't mean that it's designed to be completable by the average solo player anyone can grab off the streets.

The fact is that grouping is not required. You can zerg surf as well, which is not a formal group. Players who have a lot of experience (aka have done Flawless Conqueror) can solo it. So yes, it's soloable; they were not lying. But yes, if you randomly picked a player from the entire playerbase and asked them to solo it, chances are they do not have the skill/gear required for it. Which again is not a problem. The problem is if this person doesn't want to learn and instead rages that the world whould bend to them and not the other way around.

This is the main issue I see. It's the difference between experienced soloists who struggle and think "I need to adjust my build to do better" versus the soloists who think "the content is wrong because I shouldn't have to change." Again, the former is the thinking that will allow someone to do the Night Market, while the latter may not realize what the problem really is.

I know some people have been demanding that we show builds, so here's what I wear:

Now this is really just my zerg-surf PvP stuff from a while back, but it works for me. It's not optimized. When I'm in a group, I change to my normal dungeon setup, but if I'm on my own, this is what I'm wearing.
I have zero issues with the mobs, save for the fact that I have like -2 DPS so each pull can take like 3 minutes. I went in last night around midnight and comfortably did the "kill 25/50/75" enemies quest, and even found one or two other players at one of the bosses to get that one down too. I'm mainly checking off the District quests and the one-eyed vampire kitty's kill things quest when I'm solo. It's slow, but it works.

Here to also say that this was how I read the media that rolled out in regards to the Night Market.

To me it was pretty straight forward that if I ventured into the zone solo that the encounters, and the zone itself, was stacked against me.

Edit: And I'm not here to argue, or diminish, the fact that people are absolutely getting clobbered. I'm getting clobbered myself as we speak. But from the get go I've always heard ZoS emphasize that the Night Market was designed with group gameplay in mind.

Mattymoo92 · May 1

coop500 wrote: »

Note: I can solo the Night Market fine enough, this isn't about me, so you can stow the personal remarks.

I posted this in the main feedback thread but it will likely get buried very fast, so I wanted a place to share it more visibility, as it feels like there's a big misunderstanding between people who are struggling, and people who are enjoying the Night Market.

This is also my final comment on the subject, as beyond this point, the data will speak for itself one way or another:

Note: This post is also directed to the devs. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
And when I say elites, I'm specifying the players that are running around to every thread berating anyone who says the Night Market is too hard, and making threads and comments about people being 'cry babies' about it, and even calling for the devs to silence them.

What do the elites gain from enforcing simple trash enemies to be impossible to beat by casual players?
They have all the bosses, and they have a trial and a dungeon. But they need the ENTIRE place just for themselves instead.

All the people here are asking is to be able to beat the trash enemies. Does having 2-shot trash enemies mean THAT much to the elite community? Does gatekeeping the casuals from the Night Market mean that much to you guys?

Nobody is even asking for it to become braindead overland difficulty, there is a BALANCE between these two things, something that's actually doable by the average player, without needing babysitters. It doesn't mean they have to fall over in two hits, that's not what anyone is asking for.

Just the ability to beat them comfortably for those who are newer to the game, more casual, maybe have disabilities or whatever. Sure, they won't likely be doing the trial or dungeon, or beating the bosses, but that's okay! They could at least do the dailies, and that's what most of us reasonable people are asking for, and that's not taking away the entire Night Market from you guys. Its just making the mind numbing part (trash packs) not a gate from 80% or more of the playerbase.

A good group bulldozes these trash packs anyway, you guys likely wont even notice a difference if the devs toned these down by just 20-30%, but those who are struggling to even take part will defo notice, and actually be able to play instead of just leaving.

The ESO community needs empathy, and it needs it now.

TLDR: Toning back the trash enemies so casual/disabled players can do the daily quests of the Night Market doesn't take the whole event away, as you still have all the bosses a trial and a dungeon. The trash mobs also don't need to be reduced to 2shot overland mobs, but just a healthy 20-30% nerf to their HP and damage. There's a happy medium, casual players aren't your enemy, they're just asking to be able to play in the new event even a little bit.

Why ruin the fun for people who like harder content? Why should the “elites” have to suffer just to appease people who refuse to group?
This game is a MMO not a solo game

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 3

There are much much harder things in the game that already existed before Night Market. Night Market is about cooperation with other people. That really is the key to success in it.

Ive had all kinds of different groups over there and there isnt anything there holding anyone back. Its not about certain sets or who can cause the highest dps. Find people who aren't afraid to group and work together. I took one of my Officers as a healer while I was Tanking and we just res'd everone else that needed it until they could see what was happening. No chance of a wipe with the 2 of us alive. And cleared it all. Its as others have said, it helps to have a background in other areas of the game. Thats why you run with others, someone will know about it.

I had people at 300 cp in there with us and they were having a blast! Its all challenging, but not if you have a balanced proper group. If you're struggling, bring 2 tanks and 2 healers. Not all of us (the larger vet players) are elitist naysayers. Most of us are trying to help you. And to have fun!