Night Market Opinion Poll

AScarlato · May 1

7 hours in and my vote is still for "love it". Very fun and making new friends

Rkindaleft · May 1

lurkin777 wrote: »

This content for group only players sucks for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also have limited time so do not group.

Will not pay to play this!

I want solo content or I give up on ESO!

The content is free. Literally no one is paying anything to play this.

Some of the reactions here from solo players are completely overblown. People talking about quitting because one single update didn't give solo friendly content is ridiculous. You'll still get 2 solo dungeons and 2 new questlines this year.

tomofhyrule · May 1

Rkindaleft wrote: »

lurkin777 wrote: »

This content for group only players sucks for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also have limited time so do not group.

Will not pay to play this!

I want solo content or I give up on ESO!

The content is free. Literally no one is paying anything to play this.

Some of the reactions here from solo players are completely overblown. People talking about quitting because one single update didn't give solo friendly content is ridiculous. You'll still get 2 solo dungeons and 2 new questlines this year.

And along with the two solo questlines (TG and Sheo), we’ll also be getting the Favor system in the next patch as well, which is three further stories via mail that ask for players to do solo content.

Future seasons will also bring the Rumors system in addition to Dungeons designed for solo players, which will be more open-ended quests that don’t hand out the answers on a silver platter. And the Sage’s Vault, which we know little about.

In essence, we’re getting a lot of solo stuff this year, and only Crimson Veldt is group required, and the Night Market (and likely the High Seas event) are group highly recommended.

Arunei · May 1

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

ok ok tonight i have been able to 100% solo in the NM , killing trash was easy , killing boss i had to change out of my solo all around build into my solo IA arc 8 build that made TTK a little low but nothing like if i was full tank but after finishing off main quest killing bosses my hands did get to hurting a little ( have had both hands broken at some point in life and right has been crushed due to fighting and working drilling rigs ) oh and i even died tonight something i aint done in a long time out side of pvp so i have now tested and played the night market both around a group of other solo and 100% solo no one around at all and i have a few things that might help others like it more

trash spawn times need to be longer apart
player count needs to be more as 36 leaves it a ghost town even at prime time only seen 8 other players in area at one boss and 6 at other with 3 of them being my soft group of solos that followed around where i went ( due solely in my belief because i wasnt dying in the boss fight where i first run into them )
awards are awards but theres nothing worth getting if all you get is old sets, junk to sale for gold , skill style pages ( tho they are cool , some of them at less they dont last long for the work it takes to get them )

i really think if these few things can get some love in the right direction more players would be happy with it , once they understand this wasnt made for solo players but if your GOOD at playing SOLO you can do it but its not the best way to do so otherwise ( remember this content took the place of dungeon's and you'll understand why its made for groups and centered around SKILL BASED GAME PLAY for VETERANS thats been asking for harder fights for over 10 years now )

all a can really say is I LIKE IT I LOVE IT I WANT SOME MORE OF IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope they can get it where the rest feel the same way but a big thank you to zos after 10 years i feel like i can actually be killed

It was also meant for solo players. They literally said it in the livestream and mention it in the article.

and it is , i and many others have no issues with it while playing solo .. so to say you cant , only says you need to rethink your build , placement , ect ect that makes it so YOU cant because its a player issue not a content issue

So what's your whole build then? Because plenty of others who have brought up that they are also having extreme difficulty in dealing with the trash.

Sorry to say but a smaller number of people not having problems while it seems a lot more ARE does indicate a content problem. Especially because it was never said you need to go into with highly optimized specific builds like the whole Zone is a vet Trial or something.

Experienced players should simply mean that people understand mechanics like avoiding red, bashing to interrupt or dodging the big blows, blocking, how to move around, things like that. Experienced players shouldn't mean able to do hardcore content. It was advertised as difficult, and as I've said before, NOT pretty much impossible for a large number of people.

Why do you think that in the first few days of a new Zone/event being introduced that so many instances are so empty? It's because a lot of people are trying it, getting wrecked within seconds of stepping into the Zone proper, and deciding it isn't worth the hassle. It'll only get worse as time goes on and people either get bored, annoyed by what sounds like tedious grinding for Relics and such, or manage to get what they want and stop going.

heimdall14_9 · May 1

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

ok ok tonight i have been able to 100% solo in the NM , killing trash was easy , killing boss i had to change out of my solo all around build into my solo IA arc 8 build that made TTK a little low but nothing like if i was full tank but after finishing off main quest killing bosses my hands did get to hurting a little ( have had both hands broken at some point in life and right has been crushed due to fighting and working drilling rigs ) oh and i even died tonight something i aint done in a long time out side of pvp so i have now tested and played the night market both around a group of other solo and 100% solo no one around at all and i have a few things that might help others like it more

trash spawn times need to be longer apart
player count needs to be more as 36 leaves it a ghost town even at prime time only seen 8 other players in area at one boss and 6 at other with 3 of them being my soft group of solos that followed around where i went ( due solely in my belief because i wasnt dying in the boss fight where i first run into them )
awards are awards but theres nothing worth getting if all you get is old sets, junk to sale for gold , skill style pages ( tho they are cool , some of them at less they dont last long for the work it takes to get them )

i really think if these few things can get some love in the right direction more players would be happy with it , once they understand this wasnt made for solo players but if your GOOD at playing SOLO you can do it but its not the best way to do so otherwise ( remember this content took the place of dungeon's and you'll understand why its made for groups and centered around SKILL BASED GAME PLAY for VETERANS thats been asking for harder fights for over 10 years now )

all a can really say is I LIKE IT I LOVE IT I WANT SOME MORE OF IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope they can get it where the rest feel the same way but a big thank you to zos after 10 years i feel like i can actually be killed

It was also meant for solo players. They literally said it in the livestream and mention it in the article.

and it is , i and many others have no issues with it while playing solo .. so to say you cant , only says you need to rethink your build , placement , ect ect that makes it so YOU cant because its a player issue not a content issue

So what's your whole build then? Because plenty of others who have brought up that they are also having extreme difficulty in dealing with the trash.

Sorry to say but a smaller number of people not having problems while it seems a lot more ARE does indicate a content problem. Especially because it was never said you need to go into with highly optimized specific builds like the whole Zone is a vet Trial or something.

Experienced players should simply mean that people understand mechanics like avoiding red, bashing to interrupt or dodging the big blows, blocking, how to move around, things like that. Experienced players shouldn't mean able to do hardcore content. It was advertised as difficult, and as I've said before, NOT pretty much impossible for a large number of people.

Why do you think that in the first few days of a new Zone/event being introduced that so many instances are so empty? It's because a lot of people are trying it, getting wrecked within seconds of stepping into the Zone proper, and deciding it isn't worth the hassle. It'll only get worse as time goes on and people either get bored, annoyed by what sounds like tedious grinding for Relics and such, or manage to get what they want and stop going.

im not going to air out my build to prove a point but think as it more like you would a pvp build or an IA build where you need to be tanky have damage and be able to heal , going at it in high end dps builds going to get you killed fast solo as you have no healing buffs thickness on that type a build as they are group builds not solo builds , solo players that can do this content are them that build to do so , it gives us something new to master its fun

tomofhyrule · May 1

Arunei wrote: »

Experienced players should simply mean that people understand mechanics like avoiding red, bashing to interrupt or dodging the big blows, blocking, how to move around, things like that. Experienced players shouldn't mean able to do hardcore content. It was advertised as difficult, and as I've said before, NOT pretty much impossible for a large number of people.

This is a major source of misunderstanding here.

The devs advertised this as a difficult zone, for groups and possibly experienced solo players. But some people are hearing “experienced” and thinking that means “has played solo overland quests for years” when it really is closer to “has several Flawless Conquerors.”

In general parlance, “experienced” means much more than “knows the basics.” Most standard clssifications (e.g. hiking trails or ski slopes) divide into ‘beginner,’ ‘intermediate,’ ‘advanced,’ and ‘expert.’ When people talk about “experienced people” they tend to mean the people who are ‘advanced’ at minimum.
If we were to use these categories in ESO terms, ‘beginner’ would be those who know the basics mechanics of using skills and blocking (the in-game tutorials are missing a lot) and can do zone stories; ‘intermediate’ would be those who also understand the importance of food, gear, resources, and mundus and understand positioning and they can solo public dungeons and dolmens and maybe normal solo arenas; ‘advanced’ would be players who know what gear and skills to use and why (aka not just copying a “do this for 300k deeps!!!” guide) so they can use it properly, and can therefore comfortably solo WBs, vet arenas, and even some basegame dungeons; and ‘experts’ are those who have solo trifectas and can solo things with ease.

Soloing the Night Market is not intended for anyone who doesn’t have extremely good knowledge of their build and mechanics. Even expert soloists will struggle on the bosses there, but the trash shouldn’t be much of an issue for people who know how to build.

As a check, if someone doesn’t know what their gear does or why skill A is a better choice for soloing than B, they are probably not at the level of experience needed to solo the Night Market.
And that’s okay.
For people who are not at that level, there are groupfinder PuGs or zergs if you’re on at a popular time.

And for people who don’t want to deal with that, you don’t have to. Next patch will bring the new solo Thieves Guild storyline, the new solo Sheogorath storyline, and the new solo Favors system with three letter-based storylines. Later updates this year will also bring the new solo Rumors system with clues to solve by thinking instead of fighting, and the not-so-new solo Dungeons which allow soloists to experience the two werewolf dungeon stories at their own pace without other people messing it up.

Sluggy · May 1

Played it mostly solo tonight and joined a pug that randomly invited me at one point.

Overall it's not great nor is it terrible. I find it mostly just tedious. I went in with my run-of-the-mill PvP build and it was slow going. Not much was threatening me but it takes forever to kill stuff. If a random meta arc walks by though they just instantly melt everything's face off in a second or two so I'd say it feels about on par with a vet dungeon maybe? The only thing that got annoying was that between the random lag spikes (of which there seems to be many!) and the overabundance of screen-filling AoE effects, it's pretty annoying to just drop over dead from something that hits for 100k+ damage even when blocking just because you didn't know there was something heading toward you that needed to be dodged. From a boss I'd get that, but this just seems to come from some of the pack champions. I'd rather they just hit me for like 99% of my health instead of a must-dodge-or-die attack.

The bosses are probably the best part. They have some fun mechs and really require at least a couple people with good builds that know how to play a role in a team.

Overall I'd say it's far more engaging than anything I've seen ZoS release since... well... Craglorn! But I suspect that once the curiosity fades then people will come to it less and less. Having a limited window of time to do so will stave that off while a while I'm sure. But eventually it will just be another dead zone that you need to gather up guildies if you want to do it as a team.

Ingel_Riday · May 1

Mixed / Other.

I was already unhappy with the direction of the game. The pandering, plot holes, and overtly committee-driven stories of the new zones wore me down over the years. Those came alongside a half decade or so of FOMO event after FOMO event after FOMO event paired with daily endeavor chores and intermittent Golden Pursuit chorelists.

It's been difficult at times to keep myself going, but I'd take the weeks between FOMO events to revisit old zones on alts and remember what I loved about the game and I'd mellow out.

Then we had the battlepass and weekly chorelists so tedious that they made endeavors look charitable, FOMO events held even closer together than before so that the psychological pressure never lets up, and the only new content for the foreseeable future released as a group-only zone designed for only the most dedicated, fervent trial / vet players and guilds to enjoy.

In the above context, I despise Night Market. It's grindy, tedious, excessively over-tuned, and expects a level of dedication from me that makes 2014 Craglorn look casual-friendly. Oh, and it comes with its own FOMO chorelist... which doesn't sync up with our weekly chorelists and comes hot on the heels of a FOMO chorelist that literally just ended THREE DAYS AGO.

I'm now thoroughly burned out. More than I have ever been before here. In of itself, Night Market is just a piece of content for elite vet / trial players that the majority of the playerbase can just skip. But in the grander picture, I feel ready to leave. This is what new zone content is going to be. ZOS has already indicated that excursion zones are here to stay and their focus for a while. All I have to look forward to here is chores, more chores, even more chores, zones designed for the hardcore only, and maybe an hour of new quest chains every six months.

Bleh.

Frayton · May 1

I'm a raider and I don't like it. It's basically trial trash with a world boss here and there. Boring. I won't be going in there again. I think the novelty of it will wear off soon and it'll be empty like every other event.

Also, are you serious with requiring keys and relics just to enter the dungeons and trial? That's another hard pass for me.

Luneca · May 1

I don't think the difficulty is too much if the idea is to form a group of 12 and farm. I was just in it with my brother (2-man group). He has no CP slotted and said it wasn't too hard.

But there's another thing to consider, and that's longevity and rewards. Also, 5000 points probably won't be achieved by anyone that doesn't have a lot of disposable time. I don't think it will happen for me or my brother.

Ardriel · May 1

I’ve got no problem with the difficulty level. I enjoy group play. With my raid group, the enemies were down in no time. But the grinding is a nightmare. Why on earth does it have to be such an endless grind before you can do this trial? Everyone has to collect some shards, splinters, keys - I don't know what– over and over again. Who comes up with this b... sh?
And the quests are a punishment. Completely confusing and chaotic.

The quest markers are very hard to see. The design is disastrous.

Without group members on voice chat, I wouldn’t have had a chance of seeing anything. What on earth is that about??
I can’t see the new house in my list. I can see it on the map but can’t teleport there. I could only teleport in via the collection... apparently buggy too...
Well, at least this content is free. I wouldn’t buy it anyway. And I’m not going to spend another cent on this game. Not least because of the upcoming changes and nerfs with update 50.
You could just say, ‘Don’t do it if you don’t like it.’ And normally, I wouldn’t. But my raid group wants to do the raid – and, of course, quite often. So I’m stuck grinding this rubbish non-stop for days. It’s almost a violation of the Geneva Conventions

Please excuse my language, but my frustration has reached breaking point and there’s nowhere to vent it. I am utterly disappointed with ESO :'(

OccultNerd · May 1

Solo player 95% of the time, only group for RND and trials and I am really enjoying NM. I've joined groups through group finder, run around solo following groups, been invited to groups and also snuck around mobs solo to do non-kill quests.

I think it's a fun zone. I do agree with others saying quest markers are really confusing though.

Grec1a · May 1

We've had many posts asking for harder content and at least one popular post asking for more 'down time' between events. I wasn't in either category, but I must say I'm enjoying pottering around finishing off the EP zones, doing my weekly harvesting quests and grinding for the squirrel pet.

This event and the GP don't have any pet, mount or costume as a reward, and there are no trade bars I'm missing out on.

I haven't even started the Elsweyrs, High Isle, Galen or Solstice yet. So there's plenty to keep me occupied until Zeal of Zenithar that's way more fun than being one shot by a dremnaken - or joining a group I can't get near because I keep getting one shot by a dremnaken...

I hope the 'harder content' players are enjoying themselves as much as I'm enjoying my 'down time'

BretonMage · May 1

I'm fine with the bosses being difficult content for groups. Trash mobs being difficult, though, is just a massive nuisance that slows you down when you're trying to get from A to B. Whether you're just questing or trying to get from boss to boss.

agelonestar · May 1

Rkindaleft wrote: »

lurkin777 wrote: »

This content for group only players sucks for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also have limited time so do not group.

Will not pay to play this!

I want solo content or I give up on ESO!

The content is free. Literally no one is paying anything to play this.

Some of the reactions here from solo players are completely overblown. People talking about quitting because one single update didn't give solo friendly content is ridiculous. You'll still get 2 solo dungeons and 2 new questlines this year.

Under no circumstances is this content free.

The people who subscribe pay for this content. The people who buys Seasons Passes pay for this content. The people who buy Crowns pay for this content. It's not a charitable endeavour.

And if you don't like this kind of grindy, overly difficult, enforced-group content, then you should know that Night Market was brought to us at the expense of any other content - other content that you might have enjoyed.

As to your point about the potential content coming down the line: the volume of content has dropped so significantly this year, it's practically nothing.

SirGabenOfSteamia · May 1

Spent about 7 hours across the last couple days in there and am currently at 1400 favour. This is while being grouped in a 12-man at around 80% of the time I spent in there. I'm trying my hardest to get the 10k favour for the achievements and titles and merchants before the novelty wears off and the night market becomes considerably less active.

I'm hoping the FOMO of the night market stuff keeps people engaged with it because I can't imagine how impossible it'll be to do the skirmishes if it becomes hard to get a full group going.

theskymoves · May 1

I'm a solo player, and the event zone is very un-fun for me. Even though I have reluctantly been grouping for the area - and the group finder tool is great tool for that - I simply do not feel that I am an asset to the group. (Apologies to all the competent players I've inflicted myself on on over the last few days.)

I have one more 'splinter' (is that the term? to acquire to unlock the last wing of the house, and then I think I'm done with the zone.

Orbital78 · May 1

The relic coffer splinter were too rare, so I haven't even experienced the dungeons or trials. The boulder and laser puzzles I still haven't fully figured out.

o_Primate_o · May 1

Oznog666 wrote: »

Lirkin wrote: »

The night market sucks as it is all group content!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I play the game solo so will not pay for this content!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Golden pursuits is also now all group stuff!!!!!!!!!!

What a surprise - a content which was announced as group content is..... group content.

Did you have to pay for this content? It was free but maybe this was just for us player in Europe xD

do you also complain when a new trial is released and you can't complete it solo? what's so bad about ONE group zone?

o_Primate_o · May 1

Orbital78 wrote: »

The relic coffer splinter were too rare, so I haven't even experienced the dungeons or trials. The boulder and laser puzzles I still haven't fully figured out.

group up, get on coms, search online for the mechs

Roztlin45 · May 1

The night market is fun. In a way. Not as the main feature of the Event. If you are in a well organized group with communication and direction for the same quest , a lot of fun! Especially if the people in your group are friends. However a vast majority of players tend to solo mainly and group when needed. So it becomes difficult to accomplish the quest in a meaningful way. It becomes frustrating and NOT fun to constantly die and respawn. One main complaint I see in group chat is the fact that it is the grind. OP Trash mobs , OP trash mobs , OP boss , rinse and repeat. 5 favor maybe. But that really doesn't bother me , it is the length of time spend on trash kills with no/little reward. I understand that some people are enjoying this new content and I'm glad, However IMHO: Night market needs a damage scaler (normal or Vet mode) or reduce trash mobs damage to the equivalent of a 4 person dungeon on normal mode.

whitecrow · May 1

Even if you are good, the lag all over the game is so bad right now that this area is unplayable.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · May 1

agelonestar wrote: »

It is difficult to enjoy without a large group. It’s also very grindy.

It’s early days, but right now I don’t think this is the kind of new content that will appeal to many. I’m not really sure what the aim is.

The aim is probably mid-game players.

Right now, Night Market is too easy for endgame “sweaty” players, and too hard for solo casuals, allegedly. The problem is that ZOS has catered to casuals for so long that the game barely has a mid-game playerbase anymore.

Instead, the playerbase is incredibly polarized. You have sweaty endgamers on one side, and then a massive amount of casuals who play the game like it is Skyrim and never even try to make the jump beyond that.

Most content ZOS has released follows the same pattern: vet and vet HM for endgame players, then normal mode for casuals. But normal mode is basically the baseline difficulty for the entire game, and it is so easy that it almost never requires you to think, build properly, or learn mechanics in any meaningful way.

There is no real midpoint that helps players transition from casual normal-mode content into actual endgame content. There is also very little incentive for them to make that jump.

Night Market feels like one of the first pieces of content aimed at that missing middle, and that is probably why it is so controversial. The content is not really the problem. The problem is that, after years of ZOS’s direction, mid-game players barely exist anymore.

Arunei · May 1

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

heimdall14_9 wrote: »

ok ok tonight i have been able to 100% solo in the NM , killing trash was easy , killing boss i had to change out of my solo all around build into my solo IA arc 8 build that made TTK a little low but nothing like if i was full tank but after finishing off main quest killing bosses my hands did get to hurting a little ( have had both hands broken at some point in life and right has been crushed due to fighting and working drilling rigs ) oh and i even died tonight something i aint done in a long time out side of pvp so i have now tested and played the night market both around a group of other solo and 100% solo no one around at all and i have a few things that might help others like it more

trash spawn times need to be longer apart
player count needs to be more as 36 leaves it a ghost town even at prime time only seen 8 other players in area at one boss and 6 at other with 3 of them being my soft group of solos that followed around where i went ( due solely in my belief because i wasnt dying in the boss fight where i first run into them )
awards are awards but theres nothing worth getting if all you get is old sets, junk to sale for gold , skill style pages ( tho they are cool , some of them at less they dont last long for the work it takes to get them )

i really think if these few things can get some love in the right direction more players would be happy with it , once they understand this wasnt made for solo players but if your GOOD at playing SOLO you can do it but its not the best way to do so otherwise ( remember this content took the place of dungeon's and you'll understand why its made for groups and centered around SKILL BASED GAME PLAY for VETERANS thats been asking for harder fights for over 10 years now )

all a can really say is I LIKE IT I LOVE IT I WANT SOME MORE OF IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope they can get it where the rest feel the same way but a big thank you to zos after 10 years i feel like i can actually be killed

It was also meant for solo players. They literally said it in the livestream and mention it in the article.

and it is , i and many others have no issues with it while playing solo .. so to say you cant , only says you need to rethink your build , placement , ect ect that makes it so YOU cant because its a player issue not a content issue

So what's your whole build then? Because plenty of others who have brought up that they are also having extreme difficulty in dealing with the trash.

Sorry to say but a smaller number of people not having problems while it seems a lot more ARE does indicate a content problem. Especially because it was never said you need to go into with highly optimized specific builds like the whole Zone is a vet Trial or something.

Experienced players should simply mean that people understand mechanics like avoiding red, bashing to interrupt or dodging the big blows, blocking, how to move around, things like that. Experienced players shouldn't mean able to do hardcore content. It was advertised as difficult, and as I've said before, NOT pretty much impossible for a large number of people.

Why do you think that in the first few days of a new Zone/event being introduced that so many instances are so empty? It's because a lot of people are trying it, getting wrecked within seconds of stepping into the Zone proper, and deciding it isn't worth the hassle. It'll only get worse as time goes on and people either get bored, annoyed by what sounds like tedious grinding for Relics and such, or manage to get what they want and stop going.

im not going to air out my build to prove a point but think as it more like you would a pvp build or an IA build where you need to be tanky have damage and be able to heal , going at it in high end dps builds going to get you killed fast solo as you have no healing buffs thickness on that type a build as they are group builds not solo builds , solo players that can do this content are them that build to do so , it gives us something new to master its fun

Right, so you're going to make a claim but then not offer anything to back it up. Content that's marketed as being for experienced players shouldn't have the unspoken caveat of "only if you run specific builds" either. When I tested on my Oakensorc on the PTS, I couldn't kill anything because if I wasn't spamming my heal, I got nuked within seconds. And even doing that I only delayed my murking by another couple of seconds. I can solo a number of WBs on that character but I couldn't even get past the first trash pack of the NM.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Experienced players should simply mean that people understand mechanics like avoiding red, bashing to interrupt or dodging the big blows, blocking, how to move around, things like that. Experienced players shouldn't mean able to do hardcore content. It was advertised as difficult, and as I've said before, NOT pretty much impossible for a large number of people.

This is a major source of misunderstanding here.

The devs advertised this as a difficult zone, for groups and possibly experienced solo players. But some people are hearing “experienced” and thinking that means “has played solo overland quests for years” when it really is closer to “has several Flawless Conquerors.”

In general parlance, “experienced” means much more than “knows the basics.” Most standard clssifications (e.g. hiking trails or ski slopes) divide into ‘beginner,’ ‘intermediate,’ ‘advanced,’ and ‘expert.’ When people talk about “experienced people” they tend to mean the people who are ‘advanced’ at minimum.
If we were to use these categories in ESO terms, ‘beginner’ would be those who know the basics mechanics of using skills and blocking (the in-game tutorials are missing a lot) and can do zone stories; ‘intermediate’ would be those who also understand the importance of food, gear, resources, and mundus and understand positioning and they can solo public dungeons and dolmens and maybe normal solo arenas; ‘advanced’ would be players who know what gear and skills to use and why (aka not just copying a “do this for 300k deeps!!!” guide) so they can use it properly, and can therefore comfortably solo WBs, vet arenas, and even some basegame dungeons; and ‘experts’ are those who have solo trifectas and can solo things with ease.

Soloing the Night Market is not intended for anyone who doesn’t have extremely good knowledge of their build and mechanics. Even expert soloists will struggle on the bosses there, but the trash shouldn’t be much of an issue for people who know how to build.

As a check, if someone doesn’t know what their gear does or why skill A is a better choice for soloing than B, they are probably not at the level of experience needed to solo the Night Market.
And that’s okay.
For people who are not at that level, there are groupfinder PuGs or zergs if you’re on at a popular time.

And for people who don’t want to deal with that, you don’t have to. Next patch will bring the new solo Thieves Guild storyline, the new solo Sheogorath storyline, and the new solo Favors system with three letter-based storylines. Later updates this year will also bring the new solo Rumors system with clues to solve by thinking instead of fighting, and the not-so-new solo Dungeons which allow soloists to experience the two werewolf dungeon stories at their own pace without other people messing it up.

Your comment about it "possibly" being meant for experienced is incorrect. They quite literally say in the reveal livestream it's specifically meant for groups AND experienced players. Also you're making assumptions about what the devs consider to mean experienced because afaik none of the devs have mentioned that someone has to be an endgame raider to be successful as a solo player. Nothing I've seen regarding the NM (or at least that I can remember seeing) has indicated this Zone was supposed to be balanced around a Trial or something. If I've missed or overlooked something by all means post it here but I'm certain nothing along those lines has been stated.

You're also assuming that it's only the people who don't know how to make builds or have subpar gear and so on are the only ones having problems, when that's also not the case. A good number of people who are experienced have mentioned having serious issues with clearing the trash packs.

And to reiterate, the trash packs are what myself and pretty much everyone else bringing up the difficulty have an issue with. Not the Bosses, not the other actual group content there. Just the trash packs. There isn't a reason they're as hard as they are. It isn't an unreasonable ask for them to decrease the trash health some and tune down the damage a bit. Make it more like a Vet DLC Dungeon, like I mentioned on the PTS before, or a bit more difficult. Make it so you still need to pay attention and be reactive but don't die in literal seconds if you don't have specific builds.

Syldras · May 1

@Arunei Since you asked what builds people are using:

I'm utterly confused as for why it works for me, as my character is absolutely not optimized, but I get along well in the Market, when it comes to running around solo, doing quests and killing trash mobs (for bosses I need to tag along with a few other people - if I see someone in a district, I just follow).

I have no problem saying that I play ESO only because I'm a TES lore nerd, and I never cared to detailedly research combat for this game, because this skill-focused semi-MMO-style combat is just not very interesting to me. ESO is the only MMO I play; I usually play singleplayer rpgs (and a few other genres, strategy mostly). I'm here for the lore - and luckily, for story quests I don't need a complicated build. I can also solo base game dungeons and many world bosses.

I don't group (except for duoing with a friend rarely), don't do trials, and don't PvP. Before someone complains: I don't expect these to be catered to me, I never demanded making things easier, and I don't participate in combat-related discussions either because I know I have no clue about it.

I just play, have collected a few sets that sounded good to me, and do what I found out functions for me by trial and error.

So, how do I run around in the Market? I play a sorcerer. Two pets. One for heal, but I mainly use them so enemies are distracted with them instead of the whole mob attacking me. I usually use Azandar as a companion. I now changed his skills to buffing/healing and gave him a healing staff. It also works surprisingly well - he survives and my character does, too. I use two complete sets of gold gear (War Maiden and Macabre Vintage) plus Oakensoul. I've subclassed with Arcanist just for the laser beam. Oh, and I just feed my main with 2 days old bread, which could still be improved, of course.

My playstyle in the Market? Mostly just marking the quest target on my map, looking up the way I need to run beforehand, and then just run and heal. It's fastest. But if I need to fight mobs, it also works. In some corners of the Market, the mob density is even a bit worse than usually, there I might pop an invisibility potion to get through the passage.

The day before yesterday, I just did the three base faction quests and picked up and started a few other ones. Yesterday, I completed those 2 daily quests from the plaza and all quests I could find inside the combat zones (according to the achievement list slightly more than half of all that are available), and tagged along with some random people for a while (group of perhaps 10 to 12 people was rather easy, then I was also duoing for a while with some random person which was very doable in terms of mobs). I left when I had all quests completed. In the end, I had 750 favor; and of the first relic, I had acquired 7 of 10 fragments (missing 2 bronze and 1 silver boss fragment). Playtime about 2 hours yesterday. If it continues like that, getting all relics within those 2 months the zone is open will be no problem at all. And that's all I care for: To be unable to unlock the house extra rooms. After that, I'll probably stop.

That said, I'm well aware that people don't all have the same skills, and there are also older, ill or disabled people here who might not have perfect vision or whose dexterity got worse over the years (arthritis is a thing) - so I don't say just because I can move around and quest in the Market solo with no problems everyone else could do that too. I know several people here who can't, and who have given up this content now, or are considering giving it up. And of course not every content needs to be for everyone, that's absolutely fine.

I think the frustration mostly stems from the fact ZOS had worded the difficulty too vaguely. I remember the quotes; they said it's hard to solo and one might want to flock together with other players one comes across at the location. Had they clearly said "group content", people who don't like group content would have immediately known it's not for them. If people hear "trial" or "vet dungeon", they can immediately strike it off their list. I know many people do. That's why there never were huge complaints when trials or dungeon dlcs got released. But in this case, people just believed ZOS' statement, that solo it would be hard, but they could decide to tag along with other people around; went through that long story thing in the plaza of the Market, only to step through the first door into the combat zone and get two-shotted. I'm personally someone who, if met by an unexpected difficulty (and yes, I, too, died after a few seconds the very first time - just because I didn't expect to take that much damage, so I couldn't even react fast enough), thinks about a solution to the problem. But I can understand that some people might have been totally shocked by it and got the feeling the content is impossible for them - after just having spent so much time on the introduction to the zone. It's not a nice start.

Onomos · May 1

Alright, I'll admit I was wrong.

I still have some issues, but it does scracth an itch for some harder content. I took matters into my own hands and formed groups instead of trying to find one. And I made it with the specific intent to collect splinters or complete skirmishes. It's not too bad with enough people. The skirmishes are insane, which is a plus. The argent and brazen bosses just being other bosses from the game but tougher is disappointing. Haven't figured out daily quests or tried any minigames yet. I'll give it some more time and hopefully people are still engaged in order to keep making groups easily.

AScarlato · May 1

TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »

Right now, Night Market is too easy for endgame “sweaty” players, and too hard for solo casuals, allegedly. The problem is that ZOS has catered to casuals for so long that the game barely has a mid-game playerbase anymore.

NGL after years of 1-shotting mobs while questing that can't possibly damage me resulted in a bit of shock going to NM. But I think once the newness of the mechanics are learned most people will be able to figure out the boss patterns and defeat the bosses in a group.

JemadarofCaerSalis · May 1

Syldras wrote: »

I think the frustration mostly stems from the fact ZOS had worded the difficulty too vaguely. I remember the quotes; they said it's hard to solo and one might want to flock together with other players one comes across at the location. Had they clearly said "group content", people who don't like group content would have immediately known it's not for them. If people hear "trial" or "vet dungeon", they can immediately strike it off their list. I know many people do. That's why there never were huge complaints when trials or dungeon dlcs got released. But in this case, people just believed ZOS' statement, that solo it would be hard, but they could decide to tag along with other people around; went through that long story thing in the plaza of the Market, only to step through the first door into the combat zone and get two-shotted. I'm personally someone who, if met by an unexpected difficulty (and yes, I, too, died after a few seconds the very first time - just because I didn't expect to take that much damage, so I couldn't even react fast enough), thinks about a solution to the problem. But I can understand that some people might have been totally shocked by it and got the feeling the content is impossible for them - after just having spent so much time on the introduction to the zone. It's not a nice start.

I was going to go back to my two pet sorceror, but I am locked into subclassing :P

Anyway, I think that this is a major part of the frustration (the quoted part) as well as this being content that is time limited.

Which means, as I have said elsewhere, people only have a limited time to 'git gud' at it to get the rewards they want from it.

Add in that there are three factions, and thus potentially three sets of rewards people want from it, it means that when it returns a second and a third time, those people might not be able to join the same faction because there are other rewards they want to get (and I don't know what rewards are for the winning faction. I need to look up how to get the dyes) AND if they want any of the winning faction rewards, they need to join the winning faction. Which, if they haven't joined it this time, well, they are now locked out of at least one set of winning faction rewards.

Then add in that the instances seem to cover the night market itself (where most people are running around), AND all three districts, it makes the individual zones seem completely empty. Which makes it harder for people who don't want to formally group with people to find a group to run around with.

So basically, while there are definitely people who don't like that it is harder content out there, I think a lot of the frustration comes not so much the difficulty, but rather that the difficulty + the time limited nature + the faction gated rewards + the low population instances that cover at least three zones, maybe four if the night market is indeed part of that instance.

Fruity_Ninja · May 1

Nowhere near enough players in there to make it enjoyable. It should be instanced like it is. I’ve never seen more than 5-6 people in there, except for the first night.

It’s impossible to enjoy with so few people grinding it.

Syldras · May 1

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Then add in that the instances seem to cover the night market itself (where most people are running around), AND all three districts, it makes the individual zones seem completely empty. Which makes it harder for people who don't want to formally group with people to find a group to run around with.

I think the main market area also counts, as there are no loading screens between it and the combat zones. In hindsight, I feel genuinely sorry I spent so much time just exploring the market, talking to npcs, looking around and taking screenshots (I think the zone design is awesome and shows a lot of detail) on day 1, as I wasn't aware of the 36 player cap. And I think most people weren't aware of it either, so I guess half of the population might have just been on the plaza anyway, with the meager rest of 18 people running around alone somewhere, confused about what exactly they're supposed to do, spread over 3 big maps. That's not well-throught-out in terms of design, from my point of view.

One thing we also need to consider is that the majority of players doesn't use the forums. There will be many who never look into the threads here, and whose whole experience with the Night Market was probably entering solo, maybe managing to run around alone for a bit, but seeing no one, and then leaving and giving up on it. That's also very unfortunate.