MashmalloMan wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

By default, everyone has these:

• Base = 20% crit resist.
• At least 5x impen = 10% crit resist.
• Rallying Cry = 17~21% avg next patch.
• Possibly CP = 10% crit resist.

That's 30% guaranteed, 50% very likely, 60% if you're in CP.

Since the cap is not a hard cap and you can build beyond 125% critical damage, the new effective cap due to enemy resistances is actually between 155% ~ 185%, you won't take that much damage, but thats what a NB can build to without worrying about lost stats. There isn't a single build that will or can reach an additional 35% higher than this, and the new Mastery's 5% in PvP certainly doesn't help.

And look, I don't really care about NB as a Sorc main, I have no leg in this race, but I care about all class balance as a whole. An entire Mastery devoted to what amounts to only 5% crit damage/healing is abysmal, a gigantic oversight, and a waste of potential that I hope doesn't bleed to other classes.

I can only assume ZOS thinks this Mastery is great in PvP because they also don't understand the context in which it's used in and how critical resistance works. Shocker after the PvP stream we all like to reference.

Crit cap in pvp is aroung 175-180% because there is a crit resistance, you'd never actually reach crit cap in a normal pvp build

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed

You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.

Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage

There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included

You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class

* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%

I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage

I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing thing playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on

How does warden affect pure NB? Or are you talking about group builds? NB is useless there, it's all wardens
Also nobody runs backstabber but just for the sake of it I'll give it a pass. So 159% which is nowhere near crit cap since there is a crit resist in pvp. Why would you include sets if nobody runs crit damage builds? And even if they do it's pointless, there are sets that give damage done% or regular starts higher than crit dmg, they are obviously better

What "2 tap play styles" are you talking about? NB doesn't have any and didn't have since around 2019. Please explain your words or stop trying to get class nerfed simply becasue you don't like it. Even 25% crit dmg and 2500 execute wpd wouldn't help NB to reach DK or sorc, but you somehow say that laughable 5% crit damage will. Animal+restoring+assassination is nowhere near new DK, but they have more crit dmg and OP skills unlike trash shadow and siphoning skill lines, how would 5% crit help?

Also it's not "1000 wpd", it's execute passive, but NB doesn't have any tools to actually get a player to execute health

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed

You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.

Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage

There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included

You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class

* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%

I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage

I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing thing playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on

How does warden affect pure NB? Or are you talking about group builds? NB is useless there, it's all wardens
Also nobody runs backstabber but just for the sake of it I'll give it a pass. So 159% which is nowhere near crit cap since there is a crit resist in pvp. Why would you include sets if nobody runs crit damage builds? And even if they do it's pointless, there are sets that give damage done% or regular starts higher than crit dmg, they are obviously better

What "2 tap play styles" are you talking about? NB doesn't have any and didn't have since around 2019. Please explain your words or stop trying to get class nerfed simply becasue you don't like it. Even 25% crit dmg and 2500 execute wpd wouldn't help NB to reach DK or sorc, but you somehow say that laughable 5% crit damage will. Animal+restoring+assassination is nowhere near new DK, but they have more crit dmg and OP skills unlike trash shadow and siphoning skill lines, how would 5% crit help?

I don’t know if you have amnesia but we all remember how broken pure NB was before subclassing and this was like 2 years ago not 2019.

You are acting like crit resistance didn’t exist back then, it did, and pure NB was still 2 tapping people, now it can get even more crit damage and 1000 more w/p damage

The fact that you are comparing it to the new DK says a lot. New DK is strong as it should. New warden will be strong as well and so on.

These are empty words. Prove them. You just want NB to get nerfed because you don't like the class. Period. Explain HOW NB WAS "2 tapping" people. How? With ulti and spammable? Every other class have this but also delayed burst on top of that, yet somehow you say specifically NB was "2 tapping". No it wasn't since 2019, if someone doesn't dodge bow after incap that's a MASSIVE skill issue, you have more than 1.5s to react, it's too much of a time and you can easily dodge it even with 500+ ping

And why wouldn't I compare to DK if class mastery is made to make other classes viable against reworked classes until they get a rework. If you think that 2500wpd and 25% will put NB closer to DK but above other classes(it will not) then buff other classess too, at this point there is just 1 class in PVP and it's just not good

danko355 wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed

You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.

Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage

There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included

You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class

* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%

I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage

I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing the playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on

The crit cap increase DOESN'T affect the PVP calculations at all. Please remember that 125% crit damage cap is only valid when the target has ZERO crit resistances. Even if the target has base character crit resistances (1320), this translates to 20%. So in reality, you can go beyond the cap to 125% + 20% = 145% and still be at the cap against such player. Most players, however, would target to ~2000 crit resistance, or roughly 30% crit mitigation. So even if you go for 125% + 30% = 155% crit damage WITHOUT new nightblade class mastery, you would still effectively be at cap with 125% crit damage. For the passive to be effective against an enemy with 2000 crit resistances, you would need to aim for 155% + new 35% bonus, so 190% crit damage increase. Good luck with that on a pure Nightblade solo build. That's just ridiculous, some people argue with wrong numbers without knowing the game rules, and their opinion is taken into account when making such important balance changes, just wow.

Realistically everyone runs RC and it's way more than 2000 crit resist total, so yeah, impossible to reach crit cap. Base 1350 + 1650 RC + resillianse 660 + impen X6 924 = 4 584 crit resist on average. 70% crit resist. Basically you need 195% crit dmg to reach cap

Prionyx wrote: »

How is it designed around burst if it has no burst? Please read my post

Yes I understand that the other classes are stronger than NB and that its kit is lacking. This is why I am asking for NB buffs that are unrelated to crit or burst. So long all its power keeps getting tied up in something that can't realistically ever be balanced (you either one shot your opponent or they live and you do jack nothing), it will remain a frustrating pile of junk.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

If NB is one of the best in class, then why do we not see it in PvP?

Because nobody is pureclassed in PvP. But everyone is running Assassination. So we are all NBs in one form or another.

Quite literally everyone has been using assassination since subclassing came out because it is THE strongest active damage line. Surprise attack is the best spammable/stun in the game, merciless is the highest hitting ult in the game EVERY 5s, Incap is strong on its own but literally not necessary to even use because of the other two skills. NB gets its own better executioner with killers blade. The passives are the perfect passives for the current meta since impen is about 1/2 of what it should be for some reason.

I hope when they rework NB, they move surprise attack back to shadow where it is supposed to be. No surprise moving all of NBs damage to one class tree was a bad idea especially with subclassing on the dartboard.

EDIT: Since subclassing I have completely stopped using ults for damage combos and only use defensive type ults because assassination is so absurdly strong......Its easier to use merciless every 5s instead of waiting 30-60s for a balorgh ult to copy merciless's damage.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

If NB is one of the best in class, then why do we not see it in PvP?

Because nobody is pureclassed in PvP. But everyone is running Assassination. So we are all NBs in one form or another.

Quite literally everyone has been using assassination since subclassing came out because it is THE strongest active damage line. Surprise attack is the best spammable/stun in the game, merciless is the highest hitting ult in the game EVERY 5s, Incap is strong on its own but literally not necessary to even use because of the other two skills. NB gets its own better executioner with killers blade. The passives are the perfect passives for the current meta since impen is about 1/2 of what it should be for some reason.

I hope when they rework NB, they move surprise attack back to shadow where it is supposed to be. No surprise moving all of NBs damage to one class tree was a bad idea especially with subclassing on the dartboard.

What are you talking about? Everyone were using restoring and storm, these are main lines to which you add grave lord or animal companions, and then choose between aedric spear and assassination. So it's tier 3 skill line basically. Surprise attack was ONLY used in animal+restoring+assassination because this is the only stun it had an access to unless you are a warden, everyone else used BFB, skulls etc. Merciless isn't delayed so it's worst "special' skill among all classes. Incap is the only actually good skill NB has but it's good because of 20% damage increase, while NB on it's own doesn't have any skills to buff with this 20%... Never in your entire life NB will not have a free slot for killer's blade because lack of free slots has been NB's problem for a long time and still is. Stop trying to mislead ZOS and make NB dead because you don't like the class. I think you are a PvEr who treats PvP like it's PvE, "merciless deals a lot damage! it's op!" without taking into consideration that it doesn't stun and everyone will just press block and outheal merciless' damage with 1 burst heal or even just hots, and you can't ever reliably hit it after your incap.

Prionyx wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

If NB is one of the best in class, then why do we not see it in PvP?

Because nobody is pureclassed in PvP. But everyone is running Assassination. So we are all NBs in one form or another.

Quite literally everyone has been using assassination since subclassing came out because it is THE strongest active damage line. Surprise attack is the best spammable/stun in the game, merciless is the highest hitting ult in the game EVERY 5s, Incap is strong on its own but literally not necessary to even use because of the other two skills. NB gets its own better executioner with killers blade. The passives are the perfect passives for the current meta since impen is about 1/2 of what it should be for some reason.

I hope when they rework NB, they move surprise attack back to shadow where it is supposed to be. No surprise moving all of NBs damage to one class tree was a bad idea especially with subclassing on the dartboard.

What are you talking about? Everyone were using restoring and storm, these are main lines to which you add grave lord or animal companions, and then choose between aedric spear and assassination. So it's tier 3 skill line basically. Surprise attack was ONLY used in animal+restoring+assassination because this is the only stun it had an access to unless you are a warden, everyone else used BFB, skulls etc. Merciless isn't delayed so it's worst "special' skill among all classes. Incap is the only actually good skill NB has but it's good because of 20% damage increase, while NB on it's own doesn't have any skills to buff with this 20%... Never in your entire life NB will not have a free slot for killer's blade because lack of free slots has been NB's problem for a long time and still is. Stop trying to mislead ZOS and make NB dead because you don't like the class.

Restoring has not been the meta though. The hard meta everyone jokes about because it has been the strongest is assassin+animal+storm. Because these were the three ugly stepchild stam classes zos had ignored for years. To appease the neglected stam builders they shoved all the damage they could into these three lines. As a 12 year stamsorc main, I dropped daedric and dark magic without a second thought because they were useless and 90% of stamsorc's kit is in storm. Same goes for Assassination......same goes for Animal.

The top two specs were either that or you would substitute out assassination surprise attack for aedric spear onslaught setup Pelican made popular. Which was basically the same principle but was more geared for dueling and 1vX as impossible to survive damage.

I am not sure who is telling you restoring is meta, but you need to stop listening to them.

Merciless not being delayed honestly makes it stronger because you can guarantee the hit every time due to how offbalance works. The offbalance stun HAS NO ANIMATION and can be triggered off GCD with the medium attack into the now undodgeable merciless. Not to mention the delayed burst skills like curse has a damage coefficient of 1.3558x where merciless has a damage coefficient of 2.1476x......... which means merciless has 58.45% more burst. Even deep fissure the second most used burst skill behind merciless only has a coefficient of 1.627x

Merciless is absurdly out of control and overly used. (ignoring DK meta because its the only thing reworked)

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

If NB is one of the best in class, then why do we not see it in PvP?

Because nobody is pureclassed in PvP. But everyone is running Assassination. So we are all NBs in one form or another.

Quite literally everyone has been using assassination since subclassing came out because it is THE strongest active damage line. Surprise attack is the best spammable/stun in the game, merciless is the highest hitting ult in the game EVERY 5s, Incap is strong on its own but literally not necessary to even use because of the other two skills. NB gets its own better executioner with killers blade. The passives are the perfect passives for the current meta since impen is about 1/2 of what it should be for some reason.

I hope when they rework NB, they move surprise attack back to shadow where it is supposed to be. No surprise moving all of NBs damage to one class tree was a bad idea especially with subclassing on the dartboard.

What are you talking about? Everyone were using restoring and storm, these are main lines to which you add grave lord or animal companions, and then choose between aedric spear and assassination. So it's tier 3 skill line basically. Surprise attack was ONLY used in animal+restoring+assassination because this is the only stun it had an access to unless you are a warden, everyone else used BFB, skulls etc. Merciless isn't delayed so it's worst "special' skill among all classes. Incap is the only actually good skill NB has but it's good because of 20% damage increase, while NB on it's own doesn't have any skills to buff with this 20%... Never in your entire life NB will not have a free slot for killer's blade because lack of free slots has been NB's problem for a long time and still is. Stop trying to mislead ZOS and make NB dead because you don't like the class.

Restoring has not been the meta though. The hard meta everyone jokes about because it has been the strongest is assassin+animal+storm. Because these were the three ugly stepchild stam classes zos had ignored for years. To appease the neglected stam builders they shoved all the damage they could into these three lines. As a 12 year stamsorc main, I dropped daedric and dark magic without a second thought because they were useless and 90% of stamsorc's kit is in storm. Same goes for Assassination......same goes for Animal.

The top two specs were either that or you would substitute out assassination surprise attack for aedric spear onslaught setup Pelican made popular. Which was basically the same principle but was more geared for dueling and 1vX as impossible to survive damage.

I am not sure who is telling you restoring is meta, but you need to stop listening to them.

Merciless not being delayed honestly makes it stronger because you can guarantee the hit every time due to how offbalance works. The offbalance stun HAS NO ANIMATION and can be triggered off GCD with the medium attack into the now undodgeable merciless. Not to mention the delayed burst skills like curse has a damage coefficient of 1.3558x where merciless has a damage coefficient of 2.1476x......... which means merciless has 58.45% more burst. Even deep fissure the second most used burst skill behind merciless only has a coefficient of 1.627x

Merciless is absurdly out of control and overly used. (ignoring DK meta because its the only thing reworked)

You couldn't play proprely without restoring or storm, these were 2 most common lines. I don't need to "listen" to anyone to see what is meta, your rules don't apply to other people. Having one of this skill lines were mandatory, not having assassination. Having animal or gravelord was mandatory. Because all of the good skills are there. There are no good skills in assassination, just passives and stats for other lines, that's why it was often replaced with aedric spear. I probably shouldn't even bother reading your text after you said that merciless not being delayed makes it stronger because it clearly indicated that you are new to pvp. It makes it worst special skill by far because you can't use it in burst, so it's just a pressure tool. It's miles worse than BB or shalks. There is a long CD for off banalce and everyone have endless sustain nowadays, everyone blockweaves and if anything you can bluntly hold block for 7 second once you get off balanced, and NB won't be able to do anything. Of course it deals more damage than other burst skills, because other skills deal way more damage combined with spammable and ulti, they deal like 2.5x more damage combined than merciless, since you can't put merciless in any combo. Merciless is underwhelming and needs a rework or massive buffs to other NB's skills or stats

MincMincMinc wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

you want to keep class dead for this much time

No, which is why I am asking for buffs tied to its blood-fueled subtheme, such as bleed dot synergies, hp regen synergies, stronger lifesteal, etc and to various brawler style NB specs like "sap tank" or the old axe bleed pressure DDs. They can do this with Mastery.

The inflated crit stats can stay gone forever. Good riddance. But replace them with something that would actually make the class multidimensional, not a burst spec that doesn't burst. Even something like a poison dot synergy (matching the assassin theme) could be cool.

Yeah they need to move nb away from just the niche one trick pony merciless bow proc crit concept.

Bring more damage back to siphoning skills. IMO make siphoning strikes based on hits like it used to with old sap tank brawler back in the IC days.

Move surprise/concealed to shadow. Make surprise attack the flanking damage/stun concept instead of offbalance. Concealed goes back to the invis damage boost and stun. No guaranteed crit or guaranteed sunder.....get rid of that bloat.

Do more with the mark skill for nbs to pick a target to go after instead of just willy nilly offbalance stunning into an undodgeable 25k+ merciless

If someone hits you with 25k merciless with how many defence there is in the game RN then your build is the problem, it doesn't hit more than 12k against normal builds

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

If NB is one of the best in class, then why do we not see it in PvP?

Because nobody is pureclassed in PvP. But everyone is running Assassination. So we are all NBs in one form or another.

Quite literally everyone has been using assassination since subclassing came out because it is THE strongest active damage line. Surprise attack is the best spammable/stun in the game, merciless is the highest hitting ult in the game EVERY 5s, Incap is strong on its own but literally not necessary to even use because of the other two skills. NB gets its own better executioner with killers blade. The passives are the perfect passives for the current meta since impen is about 1/2 of what it should be for some reason.

I hope when they rework NB, they move surprise attack back to shadow where it is supposed to be. No surprise moving all of NBs damage to one class tree was a bad idea especially with subclassing on the dartboard.

What are you talking about? Everyone were using restoring and storm, these are main lines to which you add grave lord or animal companions, and then choose between aedric spear and assassination. So it's tier 3 skill line basically. Surprise attack was ONLY used in animal+restoring+assassination because this is the only stun it had an access to unless you are a warden, everyone else used BFB, skulls etc. Merciless isn't delayed so it's worst "special' skill among all classes. Incap is the only actually good skill NB has but it's good because of 20% damage increase, while NB on it's own doesn't have any skills to buff with this 20%... Never in your entire life NB will not have a free slot for killer's blade because lack of free slots has been NB's problem for a long time and still is. Stop trying to mislead ZOS and make NB dead because you don't like the class.

Restoring has not been the meta though. The hard meta everyone jokes about because it has been the strongest is assassin+animal+storm. Because these were the three ugly stepchild stam classes zos had ignored for years. To appease the neglected stam builders they shoved all the damage they could into these three lines. As a 12 year stamsorc main, I dropped daedric and dark magic without a second thought because they were useless and 90% of stamsorc's kit is in storm. Same goes for Assassination......same goes for Animal.

The top two specs were either that or you would substitute out assassination surprise attack for aedric spear onslaught setup Pelican made popular. Which was basically the same principle but was more geared for dueling and 1vX as impossible to survive damage.

I am not sure who is telling you restoring is meta, but you need to stop listening to them.

Merciless not being delayed honestly makes it stronger because you can guarantee the hit every time due to how offbalance works. The offbalance stun HAS NO ANIMATION and can be triggered off GCD with the medium attack into the now undodgeable merciless. Not to mention the delayed burst skills like curse has a damage coefficient of 1.3558x where merciless has a damage coefficient of 2.1476x......... which means merciless has 58.45% more burst. Even deep fissure the second most used burst skill behind merciless only has a coefficient of 1.627x

Merciless is absurdly out of control and overly used. (ignoring DK meta because its the only thing reworked)

You couldn't play proprely without restoring or storm, these were 2 most common lines. I don't need to "listen" to anyone to see what is meta, your rules don't apply to other people. Having one of this skill lines were mandatory, not having assassination. Having animal or gravelord was mandatory. Because all of the good skills are there. There are no good skills in assassination, just passives and stats for other lines, that's why it was often replaced with aedric spear. I probably shouldn't even bother reading your text after you said that merciless not being delayed makes it stronger because it clearly indicated that you are new to pvp. It makes it worst special skill by far because you can't use it in burst, so it's just a pressure tool. It's miles worse than BB or shalks. There is a long CD for off banalce and everyone have endless sustain nowadays, everyone blockweaves and if anything you can bluntly hold block for 7 second once you get off balanced, and NB won't be able to do anything. Of course it deals more damage than other burst skills, because other skills deal way more damage combined with spammable and ulti, they deal like 2.5x more damage combined than merciless, since you can't put merciless in any combo. Merciless is underwhelming and needs a rework or massive buffs to other NB's skills or stats

Wait we are not saying gravelord is anywhere close to meta now are we? Restoring and gravelord are mid tier at best. They really had no reason to be used unless you somehow couldn't sustain storm in the modern day where sustain is double what it should be.

We really think holding block for 7s straight is good counterplay design for the game? Is this the fast paced combat we want? Also 90% of the time you will have completed your medium weave stun before they other player picks up that they were offbalanced. Unless you were in a duel, chances are they are not keeping track of who is medium weaving in a bg or open world. IMO offbalance should only trigger off repeat uses of the skills, not medium attacks. That was such a terrible design choice.

Gravelord was the best damage skill line, better than animal, but with far worse passives and no sustain attached. It's less universal but it's overall second best damage skill line but in small encounters or duels it was obviously better because BB is OP

Of course holding block is a horrible design, but that's how everyone plays right now with "block weaving" when everyone has endless sustain. I honestly have no idea how you came to conclusion that OB stun, the only stun in the game that takes skill to perform and has massive CD, can be blocked and dodged should be nerfed but OP stuns that "you press it and it stuns no matter what" shouldn't, that's just absurd. I don't mean to be rude and disrespectful and I'm sorry if it will look like this, but from things you say like "merciless not being delayed makes it stronger" it is obvious that you are very new to pvp and don't have much knowledge about it

Kleoxcv wrote: »

One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.

NB needs an actual skill that applied major resolve and through passive. When I’m on a NB I always forget proccing it.

Then for the God's sake tell us what makes NB's damage good. I've asked this multiple times, why didn't you answer? Because it's obviously bad, there is nothing that would reinforce your statement because it's just simply wrong, you just always change subjest or reply "no it's good". I've texted multiple arguments and reasons why NB's damage is poor and all you do is say "no it's good". You just want class you don't like nerfed. It's probably because you just don't read my messeges considering you said that nobody talks about NB survivability when it was literally the first thing I mentioned in my original post.

Also NB doesn't need any skill to proc resolve, it's automatically uptimed with path and NB really needs that because of the lack of slots since NB skills mostly just give you 1 thing. Your sustain skill is just a sustain skill, your brutality skill is just a brutality skill, your special damage skill is just a damage skill etc. For example warden's sustain skill also gives brutality and warden's special damage skill also applies major AND minor breach

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed

You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.

Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage

There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included

You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class

* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%

I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage

I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing thing playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on

Hey, major brittle, minor brittle doesnt count for crit damage cap as far as i know. Also as some one who tried Orders wrath + Monomyth + RAT on NB on PTS i can just tell you that it totalled to around 150% crit damage maximum and effectively less than that in duels. It also isnt particularly a good way to build imo because despite the good burst damage you are left way too squishy so probably abandoning orders wrath for even less damage and going for a defensive set like rallying cry will be necessary on NB to be anything but a gank build.

And with them raising the cap and further lowering the crit damage in pvp, its probably not going to be realistic to reach maximum crit damage without sacrificing way too much.

Though my worry is that this seems really hard to balance because i dont expect many people surviving an Incap into bow proc with an even unoptimized NB as long as both crit. It's not good during duels, yes. But going about your business and then immediately dying to an NB from invis will be imo way more common in IC and Cyro.

I would like them to be more lenient on crit damage with battle spirit active but treat it more like landslide so it stacks while you deal or take damage, effectively making NB more brawlery and less ganky which is a problem.

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.

NB needs an actual skill that applied major resolve and through passive. When I’m on a NB I always forget proccing it.

Then for the God's sake tell us what makes NB's damage good. I've asked this multiple times, why didn't you answer? Because it's obviously bad, there is nothing that would reinforce your statement because it's just simply wrong, you just always change subjest or reply "no it's good". I've texted multiple arguments and reasons why NB's damage is poor and all you do is say "no it's good". You just want class you don't like nerfed. It's probably because you just don't read my messeges considering you said that nobody talks about NB survivability when it was literally the first thing I mentioned in my original post.

Also NB doesn't need any skill to proc resolve, it's automatically uptimed with path and NB really needs that because of the lack of slots since NB skills mostly just give you 1 thing. Your sustain skill is just a sustain skill, your brutality skill is just a brutality skill, your special damage skill is just a damage skill etc. For example warden's sustain skill also gives brutality and warden's special damage skill also applies major AND minor breach

I prefer race against time when I’m on a NB for minor force. So it doesn’t really help. NB needs a dedicated skill for major resolve

“What makes a NB damage good?” Seriously? Second best spammable (after DK), high crit chance, high crit damage, best execute (Jesus beam is ahh now), element of surprise (with invisibility), second best burst damage after DK if not the best burst, need I say more?…

I say it again

One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Pure class nb feels way too squishy but the st damage is great. They really should try to make NB more of a brawler and less of a ganker rather than feeding into it. As its currently its too squishy in a normal fight but will destroy any one caught unaware. Too polarizing

acanca wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed

You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.

Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage

There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included

You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class

* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%

I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage

I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing thing playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on

Hey, major brittle, minor brittle doesnt count for crit damage cap as far as i know. Also as some one who tried Orders wrath + Monomyth + RAT on NB on PTS i can just tell you that it totalled to around 150% crit damage maximum and effectively less than that in duels. It also isnt particularly a good way to build imo because despite the good burst damage you are left way too squishy so probably abandoning orders wrath for even less damage and going for a defensive set like rallying cry will be necessary on NB to be anything but a gank build.

And with them raising the cap and further lowering the crit damage in pvp, its probably not going to be realistic to reach maximum crit damage without sacrificing way too much.

Though my worry is that this seems really hard to balance because i dont expect many people surviving an Incap into bow proc with an even unoptimized NB as long as both crit. It's not good during duels, yes. But going about your business and then immediately dying to an NB from invis will be imo way more common in IC and Cyro.

I would like them to be more lenient on crit damage with battle spirit active but treat it more like landslide so it stacks while you deal or take damage, effectively making NB more brawlery and less ganky which is a problem.

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.

NB needs an actual skill that applied major resolve and through passive. When I’m on a NB I always forget proccing it.

Then for the God's sake tell us what makes NB's damage good. I've asked this multiple times, why didn't you answer? Because it's obviously bad, there is nothing that would reinforce your statement because it's just simply wrong, you just always change subjest or reply "no it's good". I've texted multiple arguments and reasons why NB's damage is poor and all you do is say "no it's good". You just want class you don't like nerfed. It's probably because you just don't read my messeges considering you said that nobody talks about NB survivability when it was literally the first thing I mentioned in my original post.

Also NB doesn't need any skill to proc resolve, it's automatically uptimed with path and NB really needs that because of the lack of slots since NB skills mostly just give you 1 thing. Your sustain skill is just a sustain skill, your brutality skill is just a brutality skill, your special damage skill is just a damage skill etc. For example warden's sustain skill also gives brutality and warden's special damage skill also applies major AND minor breach

I prefer race against time when I’m on a NB for minor force. So it doesn’t really help. NB needs a dedicated skill for major resolve

“What makes a NB damage good?” Seriously? Second best spammable (after DK), high crit chance, high crit damage, best execute (Jesus beam is ahh now), element of surprise (with invisibility), second best burst damage after DK if not the best burst, need I say more?…

I say it again

One thing I don’t see people complaining about with NB is how squishy it is. It’s the main reason I don’t like playing (I hate clutching on invisibility). That’s the real problem with NB, it has never been a lack of damage. Stop trying to mislead people.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Pure class nb feels way too squishy but the st damage is great. They really should try to make NB more of a brawler and less of a ganker rather than feeding into it. As its currently its too squishy in a normal fight but will destroy any one caught unaware. Too polarizing

Care to explain how is it great? Because it's not, it's horrible

MincMincMinc wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

you want to keep class dead for this much time

No, which is why I am asking for buffs tied to its blood-fueled subtheme, such as bleed dot synergies, hp regen synergies, stronger lifesteal, etc and to various brawler style NB specs like "sap tank" or the old axe bleed pressure DDs. They can do this with Mastery.

The inflated crit stats can stay gone forever. Good riddance. But replace them with something that would actually make the class multidimensional, not a burst spec that doesn't burst. Even something like a poison dot synergy (matching the assassin theme) could be cool.

Yeah they need to move nb away from just the niche one trick pony merciless bow proc crit concept.

Bring more damage back to siphoning skills. IMO make siphoning strikes based on hits like it used to with old sap tank brawler back in the IC days.

Move surprise/concealed to shadow. Make surprise attack the flanking damage/stun concept instead of offbalance. Concealed goes back to the invis damage boost and stun. No guaranteed crit or guaranteed sunder.....get rid of that bloat.

Do more with the mark skill for nbs to pick a target to go after instead of just willy nilly offbalance stunning into an undodgeable 25k+ merciless

Still not something they should or will be doing with the masteries, that'd be like with adding a dk mastery to change your fire to poison.

Our mastery doesn't even need to be crit damage, if that'd keep people from complaining about merciless. It just needs to provide raw power the same way as every other class's damage masteries, and not get extra nerfed in pvp. A mastery that loses 80% of its power in pvp? lmao