ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Velocious_Curse wrote: »

Listen. I'm not a nightblade guy. But the first iteration of the mastery passives were already behind the rest in regards to pvp.

Today's changes set them back even further.

For above and beyond, 5% crit damage with battle spirit isnt worth it imo. Just make it 25% for pve and 12% for pvp.

For eye of exploitation, just make it 1750 and 12% with battle spirit.

It's kinda a joke, why are nightblade and plar damage masteries getting significant extra nerfs in pvp, but not sorc or dk?

Yea it's kinda crazy. NB gets 5% more crit dmg in PvP, the difference will be like i dont know 500 more dmg on spec bow?

Templar passive increases dmg by 750, but it is affected by battle spirit, so effectively 300 dmg more. This 900 more jabs damage wont make jabs stronger than B4B. Nobody will use this passive in PvP, garbage.

While on paper this passives are indeed a buffs, they seem ridiclously weak compared to sorcerer, warden or dk passives.

Absolutely COOKING with the Warden and Arcanist refresh of the passives.

As usual, though, Necromancers stuck eating the leftovers for group support. The Veil passive could have easily doubled the duration of Major Vulnerability on targets and it still would not have justified slotting a pureclass Necro. Necros require a, "Yes, AND..." approach if they are ever going to be included. They need this Vulnerability passive in addition to something else that helps the group.

Also, it continues to make no sense why Malevolent Promise does literally nothing in PvP environments. The apparent fear that the team approaches this passive with is very strange, to say the least. Necros are not going to suddenly supplant DKs as the apex predators of PvP if the passive is allowed to function there. If it is something like a huge performance issue then come out and say that so that Necromancer fans aren't stuck thinking that there is some personal vendetta against their class.

Made a few suggestions with Cutthroat's Focus (NB Mastery), should've posted here instead of its own thread, but here it is:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691904/cutthroat-039-s-focus

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t get the nerfs for nightblade masteries in PVP specifically. Who actually thinks nightblades overperform in PvP? You have dk whips dealing the same damage as bow procs, necros with unlimited stamina-health sustain, sorcs with overpowered masteries and yet nightblade gets the nerfs? The class with already the worst class masteries for PVP?

What is wrong with Whips being on par with Bowproc? One is melee and the other is ranged.

This sort of bias that only NBs are allowed to have high burst makes me tune-out these conversations.

NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild since forever so we should not pretend that they are hurting the same as, say, Necromancer has been.

zammo wrote: »

It would take next to zero effort and development time to massage a few tool tip numbers

thank you professional game dev for your insights

xylena wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Stamsorc and magsorc will 100% be the 2nd or at least 3rd strongest spec in the game after this patch goes live, guaranteed. We gaming now fellas

Careful what you wish for, only thing players hate more than Sorc Meta is NB Meta.

Sorc meta is infinitely worse, and it´s not even close. NB has proper counterplay, even in patches where it´s super strong, sorc barely does.

hoangdz wrote: »

Stamsorc and magsorc will 100% be the 2nd or at least 3rd strongest spec in the game after this patch goes live, guaranteed. We gaming now fellas

And this is a sin? Sorc can only be abided when it's last or 2nd last? I do not see the issue here. Good it's finally playable with good emphasis again.

hoangdz wrote: »

Stamsorc and magsorc will 100% be the 2nd or at least 3rd strongest spec in the game after this patch goes live, guaranteed. We gaming now fellas

as a magsorc main pve'r, who isn't a pet sorc, I hope I can finally feel useful without subclassing.

Faltasë wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Stamsorc and magsorc will 100% be the 2nd or at least 3rd strongest spec in the game after this patch goes live, guaranteed. We gaming now fellas

as a magsorc main pve'r, who isn't a pet sorc, I hope I can finally feel useful without subclassing.

6% spell damage should be a reason enough for groups to want you, or? But it will be for supports only. I think DD Sorc still won't be desired.

Dracane wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Stamsorc and magsorc will 100% be the 2nd or at least 3rd strongest spec in the game after this patch goes live, guaranteed. We gaming now fellas

as a magsorc main pve'r, who isn't a pet sorc, I hope I can finally feel useful without subclassing.

6% spell damage should be a reason enough for groups to want you, or? But it will be for supports only. I think DD Sorc still won't be desired.

This is my worry, but I think it should be fine for now because the refresh hasn't come yet. That should *hopefully* make DD sorcs viable.

Another patch, another kick in the face for PvP Nightblades.

Pure Nightblade is already behind. It lacks defense, lacks consistent damage, and proc bow does not hit as hard as it does on subclassed builds.
The Nightblade class masteries were already much worse compared to other classes even before these new notes, yet we got even more nerfs?
Has anyone making these decisions actually tried PvP against DKs, new Necros, or Sorcs on PTS?

Please log in on a Nightblade and try a simple duel.

Above and Beyond: Increased this passive’s bonus to Critical Damage and Healing Done to 25%, reducing to 5% against targets with Battle Spirit, rather than granting 15%, reduced to 7% against targets with Battle Spirit. Increased the Critical Damage and Healing maximum to 35%, up from 25%.
Eye for Exploitation: Increased this passive’s maximum Weapon and Spell Damage to 2500, up from 1250, and damage reduction to 20%, up from 12%. Both values are halved against targets with Battle Spirit.

This is absurd and these changes makes no sence whatsoever. Last PTS week NB was the worst PVP class BY FAR, even worse than arcanist. Everything in NB's toolkit is bad excluding mobility, but you decided to nerf them.

NB's survivability: worst survavbility among all classes. Should I even explain why class that only relies on burst heal and vigor is worse than everyone else? Only class HOT NB has access to is path, which is small, restrists your movement(and NB has to relay on movement in order to survive), doesn't really heal much and is too expansive. Compare it to templar where most of your skills heal you and your healing abilities are not that expansive. Compare it to immortal DKs... Compare it to anyone else. Every other class has access to good survivability skills but since you've nerfed dark cloak into the ground NB doesn't.

NB's damage. Worst burst among all classes and worst pressure. People keep complaining about NB's damage without ever going deeper to realize how weak NB's burst is. I'll explain why NB's burst is horrible with math, I'll give you some examples on how other pure classes combo would look like:

DK's burst:





Let's calculate: without multiple %damage done DK passives full DK's burst skills total tooltip is... 43 299 damage

Warden's burst:




Total tooltip is 31 852+(realistically more depending on your HP)

Necro's burst:




Total tooltip is 31 852+(realistically more depending on your HP)

These are just few examples. Templar's and sorc's(arcanist's burst is terrible tho, but it's a full pressure class and isn't realy made for pvp anyway) burst are also good but I'll not add them there to keep this post a bit more compressed. Not let's take a look on NB's burst





Total tooltip is 21 349(realistically more because of 20% that will buff surprise, but even this way it will still be 50% of DK's burst.

Of course these are VERY rough estimates and they don't include a lot of buffs and class passives that would change actual numbers, but if anything they wouldn't change anything in NB's favor(excluding necro). Why didn't I take incap+merciless "combo" into consideration? Because anyone who have played PVP for at least a few weeks will always dodge merciless. It's not guaranteed, predictable and there is too much time to react. Back in the day I thought it may take some reaction, but in reality it doesn't. Found it out in a few funny ways: I tried playing PC NA for a bit where I have 300 ping and I dodged every single merciless after incap, didn't get hit a single time. But that's nothing, once I logged to duel my friend when I came back after my other friend's birthday where we had a drinking game that didn't go well for me, I guess at this point I had 1000+ ping inside my head but I still dodged all of the bow procs. It doesn't take reaction or skill to dodge it at all. But even if I would take it into consideration incap+merciless still deals less damage than db+bb+bfb, let alone DK's combo.

Why do people complain about NB's damage? It's simple, they see 15k merciless in death recap and think "damn' that's a lot! my blastbones deals 3k less damage, NB's damage is crazy!" without ever realizing that their total burst combo damage far exeeds anything NB can do.

Now onto pressure, it's just bad. NB doesn't have any good pressure tools. No dots and no good hard CC. NB is completely countered by current block meta, the only way NB can bypass block is by using hysteria, but it deals no damage and doesn't guarantee any damage skills, not even a spammable. Pressure is needed to drain enemy's resources but hysteria is so expensive that you'll just end up draining your resoureses instead

Sustain is mediocare. Skills are too expansive and all of your sustain comes from 1 passive, siphoning attacks and path's minor regens. 15% recovery passive is good but it's nowhere near enough to compensate expansive skills, path is soo expansive that it takes more magicka than it gives and siphoning doesn't recover as much as it did before, there are rare circumstances where you can just spamm it to get resources but most of the times you can't, if you press it a few times you'll just have to press your expansive healing skills again and you'll not win much. Your enemy will tho because they are pressing cheap offensive skills while you're pressing expensive defensive skills. It's not NB's worst part, but if sustain isn't good shouldn't at least other important things be good...?

NB's mobility is good, no complaints. Shadow image is the best mobility skill in the game. But mobility is the least important thing out of these 4 and obviously it's not enough to make class strong.

Now after you read this please answer my qeustion, why did you nerf passives that were weak as is? What is the reason for NB nerfs? It's by far the worst class in the game at this point, and even if you just remove battle spirit penalties and pure NB can keep 25% crit and up to 2500wpd execute passive NB still will not match DKs or sorcs, but somehow you thought that 5% crit will(and yeah, it's just 5% crit, maximum crit damage doesn't change anything because you'll never reach crit cap in pvp). What is the reason for these battle spirit penalties? Please remove penalties completely and don't make NB mains quit until NB's rework, because if you don't there will be just 2 options for people who want to play NB: just don't or quit ESO.

Please, PLEASE don't change "if battle spirit is active" numbers, just remove this abdurd condition from NB's mastery. It's a good way to balance things, for example if arcanist could keep 30% damage passive everyone would just play 40k HP arcanist bashers, but NB doesn't need these penalties at all.

hoangdz wrote: »

Stamsorc and magsorc will 100% be the 2nd or at least 3rd strongest spec in the game after this patch goes live, guaranteed. We gaming now fellas

Stamsorc will 100% be up there with DK and WW, but it's not like stamsorc was ever hurting thanks to sub-classing that gave that specific spec (what is essentially the "non-class" spec of ESO) it's entire own class that could pick from everything in the game.

As for magsorc, it will be decent, but not at stamsorcs level, especially a magsorc that wants to try and use Sorcerer skills instead of just being a copy paste "inferior blue stamsorc" like in the past, since until we get the refresh there's very little worth using from Sorcerers active abilities outside of the main few (streak, hurricane, pets for pet builds).

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Stamsorc and magsorc will 100% be the 2nd or at least 3rd strongest spec in the game after this patch goes live, guaranteed. We gaming now fellas

Stamsorc will 100% be up there with DK and WW, but it's not like stamsorc was ever hurting thanks to sub-classing that gave that specific spec (what is essentially the "non-class" spec of ESO) it's entire own class that could pick from everything in the game.

As for magsorc, it will be decent, but not at stamsorcs level, especially a magsorc that wants to try and use Sorcerer skills instead of just being a copy paste "inferior blue stamsorc" like in the past, since until we get the refresh there's very little worth using from Sorcerers active abilities outside of the main few (streak, hurricane, pets for pet builds).

The question is, why do Sorcerers need to use their abilities? They already have 50% damage reduction through parrying and can deal damage with both light and heavy attacks, isn't that good enough? /s

Stamsorc will definitely be up there along with DK and WW. I cannot see anyone killing this build