SneaK wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

making us sit without greyhost for 7 days

oh god how terrible

Troll as much as you like, hundreds of players stopped logging in because of this and that will concern Zos a lot more than people like yourself claiming they like Vengeance but not even playing it.

I would say it’s the other way around, the people championing Vengeance that won’t even play it will ultimately be the false flags ZOS chased off the cliff.

Very likely true which is why I'm wasting so much breath on these threads.

Yep its boring and dead, the real pvpers are in imperial city until greyhost is back.

xylena wrote: »

They're afraid that a mode played by "nobody" is going to kill or replace GH.

People are angry about devs not taking hard decisions to fix existing thing current players like, but they are taking easy decisions to make something current players mostly don't like. Hard decision is to invest big amount of time and consequently money to rebuild skills, passives and buffs backend, so there would be less computations, but the game would stay the same. I just can't believe it can't be optimized. It can be optimized, but it would require big amount of time, big changes, bigger competence.

Instead, they decided to remove every buff and passive and call it a day. So, it is completely different game, and without all complexity current players used to - pretty dull game.

It can of course work, but we will find out it after a year or a half. I saw messages on forum talking that after 3 days or so it becomes uninteresting - this is the same I felt. If so, population can collapse fast. Or it can in fact grow, as more new people will be involved into zergs over time - we will find out, it is matter of time. No point in arguing at the moment as it will change nothing anyway, ZOS took decision and they will never admit wrongdoing, as it was with Ravenwatch on EU.

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

When will this latest godforsaken vengeance campaign be over? Does anyone know?

Monday unfortunately. No weekend greyhost for us, which last few weeks has felt like midyear mayhem levels of crazy activity. Shame.

Jammy420 wrote: »

The bars are not equal to Grey Host. 1 bar is like full bars grey host, so like, you are not really showing any useful data. On EU PC its almost always 2-full. Which is what, 3 times more than greyhost?

on ours on pcna during busy hours you will see 2 bars and yes thats anywhere from 600-under 900. Problem is, thats one faction. The others are anywhere from 300-600.

This would be just fine, except Vengeance is a numbers game, and yall have even less ways of dealing with a zerg than we do. Can't speak for EU but on NA what happens is you have 300-600 players on AD and DC sitting in keeps while EP has six scrolls and zergs the map, then the rest of the players either leave, or log in on EP toons, rinse repeat.

So technically yea Vengeance has more players than what GH allows. But its not active pvp. And its not greyhost players either for the most part. I know because my friends list is full of them, and on a friday evening I had under 10 people online, which is crazy.

Meanwhile with greyhost you get 360 active players, with over 2 hours of a queue for people. Not ideal, said queue, which is why Zos needs to get back to figuring out how to improve the server and raising that cap, rather than just making pvp waiting rooms essentially, we already have those.

Also for what it's worth on PC NA:



But yeah can it look like that in the long-run up alongside Grey Host? It would probably have to attract a bunch of players who aren't currently pvp'ing. On the other hand, it's worth considering that as a temporary test server, Vengeance hasn't yet had a chance to attract a regular following, and guilds, and friend groups, etc. It's coming, so we'll see.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Greyhost is intended for end game players, everyone there participating should be "hardcore" by the definition of the rest of the community, same as vet trial pvers, and especially the hardcore mode enjoyers.

No one's telling them they're too sweaty and need to have their content lose focus for everyone else to enjoy their content on easier casual modes for the same rewards, or worse, more rewards than what they're doing despite it being harder.

I really, really loathe this focus on calling greyhost enjoyers who dont want vengeance "tryheard sweats". Lol that has a lot of mileage apparently and has a very, very varied and wide spectrum.

Not to just pump tires but I couldn’t agree with this more. Me, I, personally, have a lot going on irl, I’m old now compared to when I started, I only have about 2-3 hours of playtime at a time. That’s normally about 3-4 nights a week. I don’t want to do anything else in ESO. It’s what I cut my teeth doing and literally the only reason I continue to play. I am not some god tier 1vXer but I would like to think a lot of my in-game enemies aren’t thrilled about fighting me. I do fine, I win more than I lose but if I’m being 100% it DOES NOT MATTER TO ME. I do not have the time nor care about being the best ever, most the people playing now wouldn’t even recognize the GOATs from my heyday. Cyro is like a high school, new blood comes in and sweats super hard, old guard remains and can stay as competitive as they want to. The things that remain the same remain the same, like people wanting to be this or that but not put in the work, that’s on them. It’s not how life or any multiplayer game works.

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

People just don't want to play it.

Players want to play Vengeance. Not test it.

Relax, in a few days you'll have your ball groups and proc sets back.

Then why are you here saying you won't play vengeance while at the same time promoting it?

(rhetorical question. I know the answer, but do you?)

A lot of people do like and enjoy Vengeance. Ive been over there all week. Even tonight, it was busy. There were plenty of people, the DC even had to get EP because they were clearly worried about AD (we were playing AD). And yes, it was the 'purple team'. A lot of my guildies who quit PvP came for this. People who haven't logged on in months came tonight for this. That says something because they are adamant about never returning to IC and GH and they will barely do BG. People from GH were there too, Ive seen them. (Especially on the purple team)😂
I do think people abruptly switching alliances could be an issue moving forward but I dont want to really comment on too much else while the campaign is still running.

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

People just don't want to play it.

Players want to play Vengeance. Not test it.

Relax, in a few days you'll have your ball groups and proc sets back.

Despite being a Vengeance hater, I want a permanent Vengeance.

The game needs a beginner zone for new PvPers and casual players who don't want to spend all their time worrying about their builds or how to counter gankers or ball groups. We also need a beginner zone where PvErs can level up their alliance skill lines.

So I want a permanent Vengeance where newer PvPers and PvErs can get their feed wet in PvP. But Greyhost (and Blackreach) should be the premier PvP zones where Vengeance players graduate to if they want something more challenging.

Make Vengeance the best it can be, but not as a replacement for Greyhost or Blackreach.

Gamepad UI isn't a good reflection of population. On the normal UI there is 1, 2, and 3 bars and then lock. The Gamepad UI is just the 3 bars. So 1 bar on the normal UI will show zero on the Gamepad UI. Plus, it's one server, not even a PC one, and people are busy with GPs.

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I didn't even realize there was vengeance with everything else going on. We'll know more when it becomes an actual permanent server and the PvP guild boycotts to stop that fizzle out, I guess. Right now I think it's mostly PvE and Casual PvPers that enjoy Vengeance and I'm not sure how many are even aware that it's out. I didn't see it in the announcements.

If Vengeance becomes permanent and Blackreach and Ravenwatch get deleted, Grey Host will lose their overflow when pop locked. So you will likely get a situation where players will have to wait an hour during primetime (doing IC, BGs or PVE activities).

The PvP guilds 'boycotts' will become permanent as they'll move on and play something else.

I wouldn't care if Blackreach stayed up. But I'm pro-Blackreach rather than anti- vengeance. There being different layers of gameplay for Cyrodiil is long overdue. Idk if Vengeance as is solves that issue because it still doesn't seem like a finished mode last I played it but it's a good base for them to build on.

Grey Host + Blackreach + Vengeance shouldn't be an issue imo. And then people actually have real options.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Greyhost is intended for end game players, everyone there participating should be "hardcore" by the definition of the rest of the community, same as vet trial pvers, and especially the hardcore mode enjoyers.

No one's telling them they're too sweaty and need to have their content lose focus for everyone else to enjoy their content on easier casual modes for the same rewards, or worse, more rewards than what they're doing despite it being harder.

I really, really loathe this focus on calling greyhost enjoyers who dont want vengeance "tryheard sweats". Lol that has a lot of mileage apparently and is a very, very varied and wide spectrum.

There are absolutely would be if vet trials players were constantly fighting tooth and nail to prevent a normal version of trials.

Furthermore, most PvP games don't force new and casual players to fight against top 500s. They have separate matchmaking for a reason. PvP as it stands now has needed different modes/maps so that there is actually choice for a long time now.

ravenwatch, below 50

Campaigns that were not balanced properly for that goal and allowed the use of OP sets. They were not dedicated game modes for that purpose. Vengeance is.

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

People just don't want to play it.

Players want to play Vengeance. Not test it.

Relax, in a few days you'll have your ball groups and proc sets back.

Despite being a Vengeance hater, I want a permanent Vengeance.

The game needs a beginner zone for new PvPers and casual players who don't want to spend all their time worrying about their builds or how to counter gankers or ball groups. We also need a beginner zone where PvErs can level up their alliance skill lines.

So I want a permanent Vengeance where newer PvPers and PvErs can get their feed wet in PvP. But Greyhost (and Blackreach) should be the premier PvP zones where Vengeance players graduate to if they want something more challenging.

Make Vengeance the best it can be, but not as a replacement for Greyhost or Blackreach.

Honestly, no, people forget so easily.. that is NOT what Vengeance is about. It is not being built as an on ramp beginner pvp mode, it’s been built because the devs refuse to try fixing performance in regular ruleset Cyro. It’s PvP, someone name a game where the goal is to kill other players, but do it nicely? That is not a thing, it will not work that way, I mean I’m confused at this point what people think Cyrodiil is supposed to look like. What I am certain about is that Vengeance goes against everything related to ESO, it strips your character of everything except cosmetics, there is zero investment into it, it’s lazy, unimaginative, and doesn’t capture what ESO is or where it appears to be going. We have all these new fresh skills and this and that, but the PvP community gets a mode forced on us where we can’t even use said skills.

So no, Vengeance is garbage, the best it can be would be to never come out of the box.

Speaking purely for myself, I would be participating more in this week's Vengeance test were it not for the current Golden Pursuits campaign which more or less coincides with the Vengeance test as far as beginning, end, and duration.

The weekly challenges are not as much of an issue, since any weekly challenges that don't get completed this week will be able to be completed next week, hence there is no great urgency to get all of them completed this week.

But that isn't the case with the Golden Pursuits, hence anyone who wants the apex reward will want to prioritize the Golden Pursuits over anything else.

I think there was a similar quandry during the previous Vengeance test, due to an event or other activity being scheduled to run at the same time as the Vengeance test.

Fortunately, I just finished the Golden Pursuits Friday night on PCEU, and should finish it Saturday on PCNA, which means I'll finally be able to spend more time participating in Vengeance testing.

The couple of times that I did briefly check out Vengeance this week, on the first occasion EP controlled the entire map and neither of the other alliances could gain any ground without getting stomped, and on the second occasion EP didn't control everything but my alliance had the smallest population and appeared to be in the process of logging out for the night.

Hopefully I'll be able to play on Vengeance this weekend when it isn't my alliance's "off hours."