Permadeath Character Slot

FabresFour · April 24

I’d love to suggest an idea that could open up a completely new way to experience ESO: a dedicated permadeath character slot.

I was watching the Frostbreak livestream recently, and it got me thinking about how fun and engaging permadeath-style challenges can be. They create real tension, meaningful decision-making, and a totally different emotional investment in your character. The problem is, ESO’s current character limits, and especially the daily cap on deletions, make this kind of playstyle pretty impractical to sustain.

That feels like a missed opportunity, because permadeath modes tend to attract a very specific (and passionate) type of player. It could bring in a fresh audience, or even re-engage veteran players who are looking for a new kind of challenge beyond traditional endgame content.

So here’s the idea: what if there were a special “permadeath” character slot? (1 per account)

This slot could function separately from the normal character limit, and a character created in it would follow permadeath rules,once they die, they’re gone for good. To make this viable, deleting these characters after death wouldn’t count toward the daily limit of 3 deletions. That way, players could actually commit to the experience without being artificially blocked from trying again.

You could even expand on this in the future with small incentives, tracking, or recognition systems (titles, achievements, etc.), but honestly, even a simple implementation would already go a long way.

I really think this kind of feature would add a lot of depth and replayability to ESO, while supporting a playstyle that the game doesn’t currently accommodate very well.

Kimda · April 24

Your character will be killed by the Lag God.

FabresFour · April 24

Kimda wrote: »

Your character will be killed by the Lag God.

It happens, it happens in every game with permadeath, and the audience is still there and enjoys it.

Treeshka · April 24

It would be only fair if this character has no access to your banked items, craft bag or any sort of housing storage.

FabresFour · April 24

Treeshka wrote: »

It would be only fair if this character has no access to your banked items, craft bag or any sort of housing storage.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Orbital78 · April 24

With how buggy this game is, good luck with that.

DarkStrifeYT · April 24

First main quest ends ypur character.

New speed run category:

Any%SacraficedByMannimarcoToLoseMyHardcore

SirBanana1992 · April 24

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

First main quest ends ypur character.

New speed run category:

Any%SacraficedByMannimarcoToLoseMyHardcore

There's also a public dungeon quest in coldharbour I think that in order to complete it you need to jump off a cliff.

That said for that very same reason I could never do a permadeath challenge, I am obsessively attracted to jumping off heights.

JemadarofCaerSalis · April 24

SirBanana1992 wrote: »

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

First main quest ends ypur character.

New speed run category:

Any%SacraficedByMannimarcoToLoseMyHardcore

There's also a public dungeon quest in coldharbour I think that in order to complete it you need to jump off a cliff.

That said for that very same reason I could never do a permadeath challenge, I am obsessively attracted to jumping off heights.

I don't jump off of heights, normally, but I am very likely to just walk off a mountain, or be trying to see what is at the bottom of the cliff, only for it to end up being me at the bottom of that cliff. Typically waiting for reincarnation to kick in...

Poss · April 24

^ When I started afresh on Xbox NA, I wanted to see how long I lasted before I died.

I lasted a good while but alas, my first death was by underestimating fall damage

I do like this idea though

Blood_again · April 25

Kimda wrote: »

Your character will be killed by the Lag God.

The Daemon of Texture Glitch calls the Lag God for the tournament.
Their battle, who catches a poor character first, will be legendary.

SilverBride · April 25

No.

valenwood_vegan · April 25

Sounds wretchedly horrible, but as a purely optional thing ok. I mean like rough estimate, 75% of the time I die it's from lag or a bug, so I personally can't see how this would be enjoyable. And there are other issues like, would it apply to pvp? And I would definitely never take a permadeath character into an unknown situation with a pug, so would it further hurt grouping for trials, vet dungeons, etc? Food for thought.

FlameDark · April 25

As an extra slot that is designated for a Permadeath character playthrough I wouldnt mind. Hell you would probably have people making characters and grouping up to do stupid stuff as a "last man standing" contests. That might be fun. Only if it doesnt take up any of the current character slots and is totally optional to ignore.

FlameDark · April 25

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Sounds wretchedly horrible, but as a purely optional thing ok. I mean like rough estimate, 75% of the time I die it's from lag or a bug, so I personally can't see how this would be enjoyable. And there are other issues like, would it apply to pvp? And I would definitely never take a permadeath character into an unknown situation with a pug, so would it further hurt grouping for trials, vet dungeons, etc? Food for thought.

That would be kinda awkward in a pug if your group wipes and your healer has to let everyone know that they were on a permadeath character, so the group needs to find someone else to heal for them lolz

Soarora · April 25

I don’t see why not. Can have an option to keep or delete the character on death (option only appearing if you selected ironman on character creation). No bank access, no guild merchant access, and no access to queue or the group finder. I think people should still be able to walk in and do content, but maybe require everyone in the group to be ironman in order to go into the dungeon/trial.

RebornV3x · April 25

I always kinda like Hardcore WoW and the idea behind it but I don't think it would work for ESO. Combat is just way to quick don't know how many times Ive died in this game from just random stuff that doesn't make sense. one idea is maybe you would have to have a group come rescue you and revive you with a soul gem but you lose all your inventory and rezzing to a way shrine would be disabled for this mode. Permadeath could work in ESO but it would have to be tweaked to make it a bit more forgiving.

frogthroat · April 25

SirBanana1992 wrote: »

I am obsessively attracted to jumping off heights.

I'm more like Elmer Fudd running after Bugs Bunny, or Wile E Coyote running after Roadrunner.

I notice the drop waaaaaaaaay too late.

Silaf · April 25

It's too easy to die in this game. Permadeath would last very little unless you limit yourself to crafting.
A more forgiving mode like 1 week wait time if you die might work better.

Still i personally don't see much fun in it.

frogthroat · April 25

At the very least you should have the option (maybe a checkbox?) to start at your current CP. And if you have class mastery, those class skill lines would be level 50, too. Everything else, including weapon skill lines and those class skill lines you have no mastery of, would start at 1.

Otherwise most of the time you would see only low level permadeath players.

LalMirchi · April 25

Mosdef - No!

AlnilamE · April 25

I have a permadeath character slot and so do some of my guildies.

We have specific rules for our Iron Vestiges, like white traitless gear only, no food or potions, limits on morphing kills and no passives.

You can just do it, you don't need ZOS do make anything special for you.

Danikat · April 25

FabresFour wrote: »

The problem is, ESO’s current character limits, and especially the daily cap on deletions, make this kind of playstyle pretty impractical to sustain.

I'm curious, are you expecting to play perma-death characters a lot, or are you expecting to be really, really bad at it? Because I like these kinds of challenges, I suck at them and even I don't think I'd be dying 3 times a day.

To be clear: I die a lot in ESO normally, but I die a lot in GW2 as well and in that game I've managed to keep perma-death characters alive for days of play time before I mess up. (GW2 doesn't have an official perma-death mode either, but it's a popular DIY challenge.)

I've thought about doing it in ESO as well, but never got as far as working out what my rules would be. 'Delete the character if they die' obviously, but to make it an actual challenge there would need to be other rules too.

Treeshka wrote: »

It would be only fair if this character has no access to your banked items, craft bag or any sort of housing storage.

I agree that would be sensible. I think a common rule for these types of challenges is that the character can only use stuff they've earned themselves, because otherwise it would be too easy to hand them all the best equipment you've got, food, XP scrolls etc. to make it easier, or stockpile materials on other characters and just keep them in town doing daily crafting writs where there's (almost) no risk of dying.

There doesn't seem to be a way to check but I suspect my crafter has by far the lowest deaths to playtime ratio. He was level 11 when I stopped doing quests, got all the way to level 50 and has gotten a significant amount of my CP just from crafting, especially master writs.

SirBanana1992 wrote: »

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

First main quest ends ypur character.

New speed run category:

Any%SacraficedByMannimarcoToLoseMyHardcore

There's also a public dungeon quest in coldharbour I think that in order to complete it you need to jump off a cliff.

That said for that very same reason I could never do a permadeath challenge, I am obsessively attracted to jumping off heights.

I'm the same. Sometimes in dungeons I have to conciously stop myself jumping off the side of places to see what might happen, because I don't want to annoy my group. When I'm on my own I'll definitely do it, possibly several times to see if different places make a difference.

But for me part of what makes perma-death challenges interesting is that it requires me to play very differently to how I normally do. I'm pretty careless in combat too because (again, unless I'm with a group) it doesn't really matter if I die, so having to be that careful is a very different experience.

I don't think dying at the start of the main story actually counts as an in-game death, since it happens in a cut scene. As far as I know it doesn't damage your equipment or anything, especially now they've put it back to new characters starting in Coldharbour. I'm not sure about other scripted deaths, but if this did become an official thing maybe they could find a way around that. Apparently there's no death counter in the game currently, so if it stays an unofficial thing players can just say those deaths don't count.

FabresFour · April 25

Danikat wrote: »

FabresFour wrote: »

The problem is, ESO’s current character limits, and especially the daily cap on deletions, make this kind of playstyle pretty impractical to sustain.

I'm curious, are you expecting to play perma-death characters a lot, or are you expecting to be really, really bad at it? Because I like these kinds of challenges, I suck at them and even I don't think I'd be dying 3 times a day.

To be clear: I die a lot in ESO normally, but I die a lot in GW2 as well and in that game I've managed to keep perma-death characters alive for days of play time before I mess up. (GW2 doesn't have an official perma-death mode either, but it's a popular DIY challenge.)

I've thought about doing it in ESO as well, but never got as far as working out what my rules would be. 'Delete the character if they die' obviously, but to make it an actual challenge there would need to be other rules too.

Treeshka wrote: »

It would be only fair if this character has no access to your banked items, craft bag or any sort of housing storage.

I agree that would be sensible. I think a common rule for these types of challenges is that the character can only use stuff they've earned themselves, because otherwise it would be too easy to hand them all the best equipment you've got, food, XP scrolls etc. to make it easier, or stockpile materials on other characters and just keep them in town doing daily crafting writs where there's (almost) no risk of dying.

There doesn't seem to be a way to check but I suspect my crafter has by far the lowest deaths to playtime ratio. He was level 11 when I stopped doing quests, got all the way to level 50 and has gotten a significant amount of my CP just from crafting, especially master writs.

SirBanana1992 wrote: »

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

First main quest ends ypur character.

New speed run category:

Any%SacraficedByMannimarcoToLoseMyHardcore

There's also a public dungeon quest in coldharbour I think that in order to complete it you need to jump off a cliff.

That said for that very same reason I could never do a permadeath challenge, I am obsessively attracted to jumping off heights.

I'm the same. Sometimes in dungeons I have to conciously stop myself jumping off the side of places to see what might happen, because I don't want to annoy my group. When I'm on my own I'll definitely do it, possibly several times to see if different places make a difference.

But for me part of what makes perma-death challenges interesting is that it requires me to play very differently to how I normally do. I'm pretty careless in combat too because (again, unless I'm with a group) it doesn't really matter if I die, so having to be that careful is a very different experience.

I don't think dying at the start of the main story actually counts as an in-game death, since it happens in a cut scene. As far as I know it doesn't damage your equipment or anything, especially now they've put it back to new characters starting in Coldharbour. I'm not sure about other scripted deaths, but if this did become an official thing maybe they could find a way around that. Apparently there's no death counter in the game currently, so if it stays an unofficial thing players can just say those deaths don't count.

Not that I expect it to be bad: I’ve got a level 30 character on the PTS and I’m following all the steps of Frostbreak’s Ironman challenge lol, it’s been really fun! But I was thinking more about the content side of things on stream/video, and even for content creators in general. In theory, someone ends up being “limited” to 3 characters per day if they die frequently and have already hit the account character cap. For content creators, that’s not really great lol.

I genuinely think the game should offer more hooks for content creators, streamers, and that kind of audience.

allochthons · April 25

This is an interesting idea. I think a lot of the stipulations people have given here would be necessary: no access to bank, dungeon finder, etc.
But be able to delete/restart that one special slot as many times a day as we wanted? Worth investigating, anyway.

Now I'm tempted to try this on one of my throw-away toons.

Gabriel_H · April 25

You're essentiallly asking for a single player mode. It's an MMO.

Also, from a technical standpoint, it would put more strain on the servers as they would have to constantly be being pinged by the client to ensure a connection to account for lag/server issues so as to immediately remove the player from the world in case of issues.

Adhara · April 25

I already don't have enough character slots for characters I WANT to play. I'm not sacrificing limited slots for permadead characters.

If I wanted to play with permadeath, that's what hardcore mode in Diablo II is for.

BetweenMidgets · April 25

I wouldn't be bothered if they did something like this, but for sure its a solid "no" from me.

To each their own.

tsaescishoeshiner · April 26

This doesn't make sense for an MMO for a lot of reasons, but particulary for one where most of the content is either trivial or group content.

At least, it's not worth developing over other new systems and features that could be more central to how players play the game and interact.

Maybe you could make an addon for it.

LunaFlora · April 26

this seems easier to do as a self imposed challenge