Challenge System is Impacting Standard Game Play

shadoza · April 20

I want to talk about how the Challenge system is impacting standard game play. I do not want to discuss who has a right to play or who plays the right way. I am sure there will be those replies that say: ‘I don’t see it.’ Good for you. For the rest of the players, I would like to hear how the challenge system impacts your game play. I am looking for honest comments not contentious or militant responses.

Can there be a way for the challenges to be enjoyed or completed without impacting standard game play?
What are some of your POLITE suggestions for players who feel that playing feels is more like competing with other players than enjoying a MMORPG style game?
Do you feel like grouping is the only answer to getting something done in the game?
Do you feel like the game is pushing group-play more than allowing a player to play their own way?

My experience: Standard questing is only slightly impacted. Most quests can be completed without too much competition or interference. There are points where the player goes to a location that should have many foes and they find nothing, but that is only some types of quests.

Doing a daily fetch quest in a delve/dungeon there could be delays because there are numerous players looking for a quick solution to kill count challenges. Dead boss in delves means one has to wait for a respawn. There is no thrill of the kill because someone of higher level ‘one-hits’ the boss dead. If you are checking book shelves or killing a foe while waiting, you could miss the respawn and have to wait more. (How does a player spawn into the boss fight area directly?)

Exploring is impacted in a bigger way. There is over-crowding at Dolmen and World Bosses. It might seem like easy points for one who is farming the game, but for those who are trying to do the event for the first time on a character or in game, may find managing a couple hits but getting nothing because a group is farming them for points rather frustrating. They can wait for the boss or dolmen to fire up again, but that same crowd returns and takes it down suddenly . . . again and again.

Finding materials is making the nirnhoned issue from Craglorn an issue for everything on every map. Resources are scarcer. Trying to get enough materials to improve your gear or make a pot could feel like an unpaid challenge in itself.

I run solo. Sometimes I group with one or two other players. This is a MMO game that uses a shared map, I understand this; however, sharing a map should not mean sharing a life. I think the answer should not be to force or encourage grouping.

Soarora · April 20

I think temporary swarming of zones is a good thing because it helps people who cannot solo bosses get their achievements/map completion/lead drops in zones that are usually dead. I remember when I was new and asking for help with bosses on Vvardenfell. I didn’t get responses but I also couldn’t solo the bosses. If you’re an explorer who does zones in a specific order and that order might have you in Wrothgar right now, then I could see frustration because you “can’t” leave to go to another zone. But I think this is great for players who are unable to solo.

Edit: my polite suggestion would be to move to another zone, do instanced questing, solo dungeons, work on housing, play another game, do anything but be where the action is if it frustrates you. Then when the swarm dissipates, return to what you were doing.

Aislinna · April 21

shadoza wrote: »

Finding materials is making the nirnhoned issue from Craglorn an issue for everything on every map. Resources are scarcer. Trying to get enough materials to improve your gear or make a pot could feel like an unpaid challenge in itself.

I find the collect resource challenges more then adequate to keep my materials stocked. I open 15 surveys of the type needed and then go to those zones as time permits. And if those zones are overcrowded because of a zone-specific challenge, it's okay because surveys are not affected. I know... "boring and tedious".

shadoza · April 21

Aislinna wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Finding materials is making the nirnhoned issue from Craglorn an issue for everything on every map. Resources are scarcer. Trying to get enough materials to improve your gear or make a pot could feel like an unpaid challenge in itself.

I find the collect resource challenges more then adequate to keep my materials stocked. I open 15 surveys of the type needed and then go to those zones as time permits. And if those zones are overcrowded because of a zone-specific challenge, it's okay because surveys are not affected. I know... "boring and tedious".

What comes to those that do not have a stack of surveys?

wolfie1.0. · April 21

shadoza wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Finding materials is making the nirnhoned issue from Craglorn an issue for everything on every map. Resources are scarcer. Trying to get enough materials to improve your gear or make a pot could feel like an unpaid challenge in itself.

I find the collect resource challenges more then adequate to keep my materials stocked. I open 15 surveys of the type needed and then go to those zones as time permits. And if those zones are overcrowded because of a zone-specific challenge, it's okay because surveys are not affected. I know... "boring and tedious".

What comes to those that do not have a stack of surveys?

Wait till you can get more? Or buy them?

I have 7 accounts I have been doing challenges on. Based on how I was running endeavors, its better.

I look at it this way. When I have an account with challenges as detailed below here is what i do:

5 challenges = not focus on them this week
10 challenges = make sure to complete at least 3

12 challenges = make sure to complete 5 or more.

This basically means that I can just relax and play like normal with no pressure or fomo for about 10 to 11 days per account. Then it starts to ramp up a bit.

With rerolls and duplicates, it becomes easier to get done.

Ironically the resource gather takes the longest for me as you cant do those in groups, but since surveys count those help speed things up.

If I dont have surveys I reroll until I get like maps or something.

I imagine that once more challenges come out, and the novelty wears off, that it wont be as cumbersome to complete.

Especially with the rollover cap in place.

tsaescishoeshiner · April 21

Delve bosses have trigger points that cause the boss to spawn in when a new player walks past that point in the delve. This system could probably be slightly improved, but would never be perfect unless everything becomes a solo instance.

This is one of the most solo-friendly MMOs. The unreleased Challenge Difficulty system will make questing a bit more immersive and rewarding.

shadoza · April 21

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Finding materials is making the nirnhoned issue from Craglorn an issue for everything on every map. Resources are scarcer. Trying to get enough materials to improve your gear or make a pot could feel like an unpaid challenge in itself.

I find the collect resource challenges more then adequate to keep my materials stocked. I open 15 surveys of the type needed and then go to those zones as time permits. And if those zones are overcrowded because of a zone-specific challenge, it's okay because surveys are not affected. I know... "boring and tedious".

What comes to those that do not have a stack of surveys?

Wait till you can get more? Or buy them?

I have 7 accounts I have been doing challenges on. Based on how I was running endeavors, its better.

I look at it this way. When I have an account with challenges as detailed below here is what i do:

5 challenges = not focus on them this week
10 challenges = make sure to complete at least 3

12 challenges = make sure to complete 5 or more.

This basically means that I can just relax and play like normal with no pressure or fomo for about 10 to 11 days per account. Then it starts to ramp up a bit.

With rerolls and duplicates, it becomes easier to get done.

Ironically the resource gather takes the longest for me as you cant do those in groups, but since surveys count those help speed things up.

If I dont have surveys I reroll until I get like maps or something.

I imagine that once more challenges come out, and the novelty wears off, that it wont be as cumbersome to complete.

Especially with the rollover cap in place.

I have reached a point where the challenges are more frustrating than fun so I don't do them unless it blends into my game play. Unfortunately for me, other folks like challenges so much they want to farm them all in the first day. This leaves players like me in a situation where we must cater to the crowd or just stop playing. (I think someone actually suggested this.)

The issue I present is not how to complete challenges but rather how to play the game while others are trying to complete challenges.

wolfie1.0. · April 21

shadoza wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Finding materials is making the nirnhoned issue from Craglorn an issue for everything on every map. Resources are scarcer. Trying to get enough materials to improve your gear or make a pot could feel like an unpaid challenge in itself.

I find the collect resource challenges more then adequate to keep my materials stocked. I open 15 surveys of the type needed and then go to those zones as time permits. And if those zones are overcrowded because of a zone-specific challenge, it's okay because surveys are not affected. I know... "boring and tedious".

What comes to those that do not have a stack of surveys?

Wait till you can get more? Or buy them?

I have 7 accounts I have been doing challenges on. Based on how I was running endeavors, its better.

I look at it this way. When I have an account with challenges as detailed below here is what i do:

5 challenges = not focus on them this week
10 challenges = make sure to complete at least 3

12 challenges = make sure to complete 5 or more.

This basically means that I can just relax and play like normal with no pressure or fomo for about 10 to 11 days per account. Then it starts to ramp up a bit.

With rerolls and duplicates, it becomes easier to get done.

Ironically the resource gather takes the longest for me as you cant do those in groups, but since surveys count those help speed things up.

If I dont have surveys I reroll until I get like maps or something.

I imagine that once more challenges come out, and the novelty wears off, that it wont be as cumbersome to complete.

Especially with the rollover cap in place.

I have reached a point where the challenges are more frustrating than fun so I don't do them unless it blends into my game play. Unfortunately for me, other folks like challenges so much they want to farm them all in the first day. This leaves players like me in a situation where we must cater to the crowd or just stop playing. (I think someone actually suggested this.)

The issue I present is not how to complete challenges but rather how to play the game while others are trying to complete challenges.

Learn to deal with it. Players going to do what they do. And if a challenge causes people to rush to a zone or specific area and you dont want to deal with the chaos. There are plenty of things to do.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · April 21

As far as the feeling of competing with other players, there is entirely way too much dps in the game in every aspect. And there has been since Subclassing and I fear its only going to get worse. People who who get dragged and pulled through dungeons without even getting a shot off. Or even pick up the loot. And cant do the quest either. On the opposite side, so much damage coming at you in PvP there isnt enough time to counter or for your heal over time to work. Or even block or break free in some cases. Completely cheating mechanics all together by way of dps in all aspects of the game.

To some degree, certain situations are expected to be group play, dungeons, trials, even Dolmens. Before there was too much dps, you needed other people to do some of these things like certain world bosses, public dungeons, Mirrimoor Incursions, ect. They really were not designed to be soloed.

In some cases, they are adding things to make it more flexible for solo players. The new solo dungeons are an example of that. I think they do a better job than most at accommodating solo players or at least trying to make it to where a lot of the game can be played without being grouped.

The spawn rate is 5 min, that's really not too bad in my opinion. There needs to be time in between things like bosses in public dungeons for people to do things like use a rag picker, level up, treasure chests, ect. These are public areas so the expectation is that there will be other adventures around.

One option is to move to a less populated area if you feel like there are too many people around. If you're having trouble hitting things in places like Dolmens, you can slot an aoe with an instant cast time for a better chance at hitting something and it will linger there so it will hit other things that might spawn. If you get strong enough, you will eventually be able to solo more difficult enemies without having others, in which case you could simply walk up to a world bosses on your own and take it down alone. Or turn one of your Npc companions like Isobel into a tank to hold agro for you.

Also, if you're doing things like the weekly tasks, dont do the ones where there would be a lot of other players on the first day or two if you intend to solo them. Most of the die hards try to get everything completed on day 1 where casuals do not.

shadoza · April 21

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

As far as the feeling of competing with other players, there is entirely way too much dps in the game in every aspect. And there has been since Subclassing and I fear its only going to get worse. People who who get dragged and pulled through dungeons without even getting a shot off. Or even pick up the loot. And cant do the quest either. On the opposite side, so much damage coming at you in PvP there isnt enough time to counter or for your heal over time to work. Or even block or break free in some cases. Completely cheating mechanics all together by way of dps in all aspects of the game.

To some degree, certain situations are expected to be group play, dungeons, trials, even Dolmens. Before there was too much dps, you needed other people to do some of these things like certain world bosses, public dungeons, Mirrimoor Incursions, ect. They really were not designed to be soloed.

In some cases, they are adding things to make it more flexible for solo players. The new solo dungeons are an example of that. I think they do a better job than most at accommodating solo players or at least trying to make it to where a lot of the game can be played without being grouped.

The spawn rate is 5 min, that's really not too bad in my opinion. There needs to be time in between things like bosses in public dungeons for people to do things like use a rag picker, level up, treasure chests, ect. These are public areas so the expectation is that there will be other adventures around.

One option is to move to a less populated area if you feel like there are too many people around. If you're having trouble hitting things in places like Dolmens, you can slot an aoe with an instant cast time for a better chance at hitting something and it will linger there so it will hit other things that might spawn. If you get strong enough, you will eventually be able to solo more difficult enemies without having others, in which case you could simply walk up to a world bosses on your own and take it down alone. Or turn one of your Npc companions like Isobel into a tank to hold agro for you.

Also, if you're doing things like the weekly tasks, dont do the ones where there would be a lot of other players on the first day or two if you intend to solo them. Most of the die hards try to get everything completed on day 1 where casuals do not.

Five minutes doesn't seem like a lot of time, but it gets to be a lot of waiting when in a public dungeon and every boss has been killed. One could wait 30 to 40 minutes over the course of the dungeon.

The issue is not doing challenges. The issue is when one is not doing challenges and others are. It gets hard to do simple quests when one is always waiting for bosses, resources, mobs to respawn. One could just go do something else, but if they do that enough, they might decide to play a game that does over run with challenges and group events.

spartaxoxo · April 21

You can tell which zones will be flooded by which are being pushed by events and now the tome. Right now Wrothgar, Gold Coast, and Hew's Bane aren't places you'd want to go right away because they just fixed the challenge there.

Alik'r desert isn't where you want to get incursions done because those are a premier exp farming spot.

Once you get a feel of where all the most popular stuff will be, you'll also get a feel for where it isn't if you want to have less people around.

Do crafting writs and you'll get plenty of surveys and mats. You don't need to compete with others for mats when you can get your own privately instanced ones and make coin getting them.

SerafinaWaterstar · April 21

2 accounts; no issue with completing all weekly plus easily managing to do a bit daily towards the season ones.

Really do not understand the complaints.

twisttop138 · April 21

spartaxoxo wrote: »

You can tell which zones will be flooded by which are being pushed by events and now the tome. Right now Wrothgar, Gold Coast, and Hew's Bane aren't places you'd want to go right away because they just fixed the challenge there.

Alik'r desert isn't where you want to get incursions done because those are a premier exp farming spot.

Once you get a feel of where all the most popular stuff will be, you'll also get a feel for where it isn't if you want to have less people around.

Do crafting writs and you'll get plenty of surveys and mats. You don't need to compete with others for mats when you can get your own privately instanced ones and make coin getting them.

I think it's fantastic. Everywhere I go in game is busy. From the empty a few weeks ago gold coast and wrothgar, to greenshade to weirdly obscure out of the way public dungeon bosses in coldharbor. Everywhere I go there's people now. How great it is. The feeling of an alive mmo, not just the latest expansion zone, though if I'm being honest, that is the least populated.

Now, a thing to keep in mind. Tomes is a new fresh thing. It's looking like a lot of people are back and doing tomes, wether they're back for the class refreshes, the night market and other upcoming content, who knows. But as more content is released, tomes will settle into the background. It will become a regular, normal part of gameplay and the crowds will die down. If other MMOs with battle passes are any indication, the first month of every season will see a bustle of activity as the people who like to do it like that, grind out their pass quickly. Then it will settle down again till next season. A good number of us though, will just do tone stuff as part of our regular gameplay. Oh I have kill knight commander panthius, well I'm gonna do some dailies anyway, I'll start in gold coast. I have alchemy nodes? Well I'll grab nodes as I'm moving through zones to my next thing. Or the first 15 minutes of my play session will be kill these WB or whatever. Dungeons taken care of in dungeon group night etc. But I think seeing the game so alive and thriving should make us all happy, except those of that maybe want a single player game.

SkaiFaith · April 21

Many players came to ESO for the MMO aspect. I know a lot don't, but others do.
Many players, me included, have given feedback to Zos in the past suggesting to "push a little more" the grouping aspect to players.
I'm happy they listened. The reason we asked for this is that the game "felt dead" - it was NOT dead, as some proclaimed, but it felt dead. Seemed like everyone was closed in their house crafting furnishing or whatever XD
Today the game, the world, feels more alive, and thanks to challenges you meet people more often.
I appreciate what Zos did.
I understand some players may be on the "introvert" side and enjoy more a solo experience, like an offline RPG, but others like me could feel pretty lonely wandering the huge wasteland Nirn was before this change.

Now, I'm not saying your issues are not valid points. Just giving a reason WHY Zos did this - it was requested by many of us.
EDIT: I'm not even saying anyone is wrong or arguing. Just that there is another side of the coin where people actually want these changes.

twisttop138 · April 21

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Many players came to ESO for the MMO aspect. I know a lot don't, but others do.
Many players, me included, have given feedback to Zos in the past suggesting to "push a little more" the grouping aspect to players.
I'm happy they listened. The reason we asked for this is that the game "felt dead" - it was NOT dead, as some proclaimed, but it felt dead. Seemed like everyone was closed in their house crafting furnishing or whatever XD
Today the game, the world, feels more alive, and thanks to challenges you meet people more often.
I appreciate what Zos did.
I understand some players may be on the "introvert" side and enjoy more a solo experience, like an offline RPG, but others like me could feel pretty lonely wandering the huge wasteland Nirn was before this change.

Now, I'm not saying your issues are not valid points. Just giving a reason WHY Zos did this - it was requested by many of us.
EDIT: I'm not even saying anyone is wrong or arguing. Just that there is another side of the coin where people actually want these changes.

And the beauty of it is,you can do it all solo. Or with a friend. My wife has only ever done dungeons duo with me and only the first few on the list. So her 3 dungeon challenge she might of rerolled. But instead I took her to places that were new to her. Tempest island, Selenes web, elden hollow 2. I've seen them a million times but it's a whole new world in the game for her. Even the WB challenges are pretty easy for everyone. There's always people there, no matter what it seems. So solo or with friends, you're covered.

Elvenheart · April 21

I just want to add this as a funny aside, when I first read the title, I misread it and thought it was a thread about the new challenge difficulty system. And then I started reading this points of the thread and kept thinking what does any of this have to do with the new challenge difficulty levels? All I can say is it’s been a long day! 😂

SilverBride · April 21

I thought the same thing as @Elvenheart and didn't know I was wrong until I read his post. It would help if the subject said "Tome Challenge System is Impacting Standard Game Play".

anadandy · April 21

My tip, go where other people are not. I've been doing all my mat harvesting in "unpopular" zones - some days I dont see another soul. Incursions, go to the ones that are a pain in the butt to get to (looking at you Coral Wastendale). Yes, certain things are overcrowded (poor Knight Commander Redshirt) but I have not found my gameplay experience negatively impacted by the challenges.

twisttop138 · April 21

anadandy wrote: »

My tip, go where other people are not. I've been doing all my mat harvesting in "unpopular" zones - some days I dont see another soul. Incursions, go to the ones that are a pain in the butt to get to (looking at you Coral Wastendale). Yes, certain things are overcrowded (poor Knight Commander Redshirt) but I have not found my gameplay experience negatively impacted by the challenges.

Dude, 100% knight commander panthius is on the phone with his union rep after each pull, just upset.

licenturion · April 21

I can tolerate the system but it is way too specific. I thought the previous system of daily login and easy daily and weekly better. Those usually took up 3-5 minutes of my time. Now I feel in the beginning of the week I am doing so much busywork to get it over with that I am burned out for the rest of the week

I see all these posts "wow, the game feels so alive again'. But is it? Everyone funnels to the same 8 spots, puts a 5 minute timer on their phone, watch some YouTube or scroll a bit, click once, kill world boss. Reset timer...repeat 5 or more times. Very boring compared to what we had before.

Those challenges should be way way less specific. They got it right with golden pursuit with "complete 5 dungeons' or kill 20 world bosses. The way it is now is boring and I am more waiting than playing the game.

Then there are the 'kill 1000+ of XXX' that last a month. I know you have a whole season, but ESO has been ramming into peoples head to complete everything as fast as possible. So, the other day I even changed my built to so I could steal as many easy crab kills from a distance from other players to get it done more quickly while the other part was farmed in a random +boss group while I was cooking. And yesterday I did the kill 100 bosses in Blessed Crucible at the part where there spawn 4 werewolf bosses, kill 3, jump in lava to die and repeat a few times to get that out of the way. And now I am burned out for the rest of the week and went back to Starfield.

And all of this is grinding is just to unlock the pages that have endeavors and trade bars on them. I don't get it. People used to complain that they were burned out with event. Now it feels like the game is constant having 20 events and they love it.

twisttop138 · April 21

I guess if you're putting on a timer to farm WBs, it would seem like work. Or feel like you have to get it done as fast as possible. Idk why you'd do that to yourself but not everyone plays the same as I do.

licenturion · April 21

twisttop138 wrote: »

I guess if you're putting on a timer to farm WBs, it would seem like work. Or feel like you have to get it done as fast as possible. Idk why you'd do that to yourself but not everyone plays the same as I do.

For me challenges is like a chore list at home or at work. I usually want to get it done asap so I can move on and do the stuff I like.

This week I tried a different approach that is more tolerable. Since I work at home I tried to reroll challenges so I have all arena and bosses and duplicates. I put a 5 minute timer on my phone and do my work on my laptop in the meantime. That way I get stuff done within 30 minutes for the whole week and can play the game the way I like in the evening. Still, I hope they change it to be more like "kill 20 bosses/Do 8 dungeons/etc'.

I am not the only doing this because when my timer reaches the 4:50 mark everyone starts spamming AOE attacks to get a hitpoint on the boss.

tomofhyrule · April 21

As has been mentioned though, if you’re turning the game into a job, it’s gonna feel like a job. So don’t.

Remember: the free track of Tomes has 20k points worth of stuff to earn. That’s it. Any points you earn over 20k are unnecessary and will just get thrown out at the end of the season. For Premium, you have a few more things to buy, but then you also don’t lose the Tome and can keep buying things from it later.

I did a quick off-the-cuff calculation based on last week having 6500 Points, and that was after the season was live about 10 days. At 6500 points in 10 days, that means I’ll have around 58,500 points at the end. That’s over 30k points that are going straight into the trash.

For anyone who plays regularly, you will throw away more Points than you can possibly use. So… why do you need to maximize your gains or get it as fast as possible? Are you not throwing things away fast enough?

twisttop138 · April 21

licenturion wrote: »

twisttop138 wrote: »

I guess if you're putting on a timer to farm WBs, it would seem like work. Or feel like you have to get it done as fast as possible. Idk why you'd do that to yourself but not everyone plays the same as I do.

For me challenges is like a chore list at home or at work. I usually want to get it done asap so I can move on and do the stuff I like.

This week I tried a different approach that is more tolerable. Since I work at home I tried to reroll challenges so I have all arena and bosses and duplicates. I put a 5 minute timer on my phone and do my work on my laptop in the meantime. That way I get stuff done within 30 minutes for the whole week and can play the game the way I like in the evening. Still, I hope they change it to be more like "kill 20 bosses/Do 8 dungeons/etc'.

Thats not a bad system, if it works for you. Having experienced battle passes before in other MMOs, I'm trying to just have it be a background thing. Dedicate 15 or 20 minutes to the begining of each day when I log in. Then use rerolls to make the rest real background. Trials and dungeons I'm gonna be doing anyway, in copious amounts so that's an easy win. I will say though, that do any WB would be nice. I will stand fast though, on the opinion that the game is more lively everywhere I go. In the weirdest and most obscure places, people are there. I think it's great. But I also stand by the other thing I said, this will calm way way down and the only times we'll see it like this is in the weeks after a new season releases. So it goes in other battle pass MMOs. The game may be different but the people are the same.

Thalmar · April 21

I think if we ourselves should choose what type of challange we want to do, this will solve many frustration. I mean we should chose challange categories between crafting, pvp, pve, housing, open world, solo or group content instead of ZOS "parenting" us to be extrovert, "encouring" the adults to do group content.

I begin to believe ZOS began to be hypocrite, one moment they say "play the way you want", next day "this is an mmo so we encourage players to group up". It is their choise.

One more week I get trial or group dungeon challange that not encouriging but forcing me to group up with some strangers, which never ends well, will move on to other games which respect solo players better. Group players get the biggest piece of cake always even thou we all pay the same amount of money. Night market is for group players at least they could have add challange difficulty(overland) layered so we do not need to be par with some high competitive players who thinks casuals should not be on their way...

wolfie1.0. · April 21

licenturion wrote: »

I can tolerate the system but it is way too specific. I thought the previous system of daily login and easy daily and weekly better. Those usually took up 3-5 minutes of my time. Now I feel in the beginning of the week I am doing so much busywork to get it over with that I am burned out for the rest of the week

I see all these posts "wow, the game feels so alive again'. But is it? Everyone funnels to the same 8 spots, puts a 5 minute timer on their phone, watch some YouTube or scroll a bit, click once, kill world boss. Reset timer...repeat 5 or more times. Very boring compared to what we had before.

Those challenges should be way way less specific. They got it right with golden pursuit with "complete 5 dungeons' or kill 20 world bosses. The way it is now is boring and I am more waiting than playing the game.

Then there are the 'kill 1000+ of XXX' that last a month. I know you have a whole season, but ESO has been ramming into peoples head to complete everything as fast as possible. So, the other day I even changed my built to so I could steal as many easy crab kills from a distance from other players to get it done more quickly while the other part was farmed in a random +boss group while I was cooking. And yesterday I did the kill 100 bosses in Blessed Crucible at the part where there spawn 4 werewolf bosses, kill 3, jump in lava to die and repeat a few times to get that out of the way. And now I am burned out for the rest of the week and went back to Starfield.

And all of this is grinding is just to unlock the pages that have endeavors and trade bars on them. I don't get it. People used to complain that they were burned out with event. Now it feels like the game is constant having 20 events and they love it.

My advice take your time with the tome challenges. As I stated above, you arnt negatively impacted until the start of week 3 on challenges for tome points and even then you just need to have completed 3, to avoid that negative impact. And then you are good for another week.

Also, duplicating tome challenges helps. I had 4 collect treasure chest ones at once and it was done quick.

If you have premium... well you basically have a ton of time.

shadoza · April 21

licenturion wrote: »

I can tolerate the system but it is way too specific. I thought the previous system of daily login and easy daily and weekly better. Those usually took up 3-5 minutes of my time. Now I feel in the beginning of the week I am doing so much busywork to get it over with that I am burned out for the rest of the week

I see all these posts "wow, the game feels so alive again'. But is it? Everyone funnels to the same 8 spots, puts a 5 minute timer on their phone, watch some YouTube or scroll a bit, click once, kill world boss. Reset timer...repeat 5 or more times. Very boring compared to what we had before.

Those challenges should be way way less specific. They got it right with golden pursuit with "complete 5 dungeons' or kill 20 world bosses. The way it is now is boring and I am more waiting than playing the game.

Then there are the 'kill 1000+ of XXX' that last a month. I know you have a whole season, but ESO has been ramming into peoples head to complete everything as fast as possible. So, the other day I even changed my built to so I could steal as many easy crab kills from a distance from other players to get it done more quickly while the other part was farmed in a random +boss group while I was cooking. And yesterday I did the kill 100 bosses in Blessed Crucible at the part where there spawn 4 werewolf bosses, kill 3, jump in lava to die and repeat a few times to get that out of the way. And now I am burned out for the rest of the week and went back to Starfield.

And all of this is grinding is just to unlock the pages that have endeavors and trade bars on them. I don't get it. People used to complain that they were burned out with event. Now it feels like the game is constant having 20 events and they love it.

A game friend and I did many public dungeons, a couple delves, and a few group dungeons and still haven't finished the 100 boss challenge. The public dungeons took so long because there was a couple of high-level players that ran, really ran, from boss to boss to boss and never slowed to kill mobs. We would go through a hall and it would be empty, then suddenly crowds of foes run past us to return to their start. It was a lot of waiting. Which allows me to think there must be a better way.

I think changing where we play is not the good answer.
I also think playing a different game is not a good solution.
The development team suggested that instancing is too complicated for the number of dungeons.
I think a better solution would be use more general challenges rather than kill a this world boss or that.

Thank you for an honest response that is polite. Sometimes it feels difficult to speak well when we are passionate about something.

shadoza · April 21

tomofhyrule wrote: »

As has been mentioned though, if you’re turning the game into a job, it’s gonna feel like a job. So don’t.

Remember: the free track of Tomes has 20k points worth of stuff to earn. That’s it. Any points you earn over 20k are unnecessary and will just get thrown out at the end of the season. For Premium, you have a few more things to buy, but then you also don’t lose the Tome and can keep buying things from it later.

I did a quick off-the-cuff calculation based on last week having 6500 Points, and that was after the season was live about 10 days. At 6500 points in 10 days, that means I’ll have around 58,500 points at the end. That’s over 30k points that are going straight into the trash.

For anyone who plays regularly, you will throw away more Points than you can possibly use. So… why do you need to maximize your gains or get it as fast as possible? Are you not throwing things away fast enough?

You make a good point. Perhaps after this season, players will lose the feeling of being rushed and spread their play out across the weeks rather than the first couple days of each week.
I think it would also help to calm things down if all the challenges paid out the same number of points. Do you think that would change how people are focusing their challenges?

shadoza · April 21

Thalmar wrote: »

I think if we ourselves should choose what type of challange we want to do, this will solve many frustration. I mean we should chose challange categories between crafting, pvp, pve, housing, open world, solo or group content instead of ZOS "parenting" us to be extrovert, "encouring" the adults to do group content.

I begin to believe ZOS began to be hypocrite, one moment they say "play the way you want", next day "this is an mmo so we encourage players to group up". It is their choise.

One more week I get trial or group dungeon challange that not encouriging but forcing me to group up with some strangers, which never ends well, will move on to other games which respect solo players better. Group players get the biggest piece of cake always even thou we all pay the same amount of money. Night market is for group players at least they could have add challange difficulty(overland) layered so we do not need to be par with some high competitive players who thinks casuals should not be on their way...

I understand your points. It does feel like this game is becoming a battlefield cooperative now. The Dynamic Encounters is a group event right in the middle of the overland playing fields. Why? There are already PvP, Battlegrounds, private duels, ToT card game, group dungeons, trials, and arenas, and world bosses. Why did the team think we needed one more group event, wait, two, Night Market is group event.

The Play the Way You Want has become a bit ambiguous. Kind of turns into 'play the way you want as long as it is the way WE want.'

Moving on to other games really isn't the good answer in my opinion. You pay for this one. You usually enjoy this one. You should keep playing this game. Don't let toxic players run you off. Currently, you can reroll. In the future, you will be able to purchase rerolls if you do not like the results of the limited free rolls. The issue with the same challenges repeating needs to be fixed soon. Your idea of having categories we can choose from is viable. Also, since they can make a difficulty slider for higher levels, they could make that difficult slider go the other direction so Solo players can do group content at their own level.

I think the reason ZOS has specific challenges is that they want to encourage players to go to places that are not popular. It is an understandable reaction to low-population areas; however, the better response would be to figure out why players don't go there and fix that. I feel if one must bribe a player to do something with special rewards, that something is not liked and maybe should not be in the game.

Ingel_Riday · April 21

shadoza wrote: »

I want to talk about how the Challenge system is impacting standard game play. I do not want to discuss who has a right to play or who plays the right way. I am sure there will be those replies that say: ‘I don’t see it.’ Good for you. For the rest of the players, I would like to hear how the challenge system impacts your game play. I am looking for honest comments not contentious or militant responses.

Can there be a way for the challenges to be enjoyed or completed without impacting standard game play?
What are some of your POLITE suggestions for players who feel that playing feels is more like competing with other players than enjoying a MMORPG style game?
Do you feel like grouping is the only answer to getting something done in the game?
Do you feel like the game is pushing group-play more than allowing a player to play their own way?

To be frank, the "competing with other players" thing doesn't bother me. The challenges are so tedious and dull that the competition on Week 2 was far less than Week 1. Eventually, I imagine that ZOS will have broken most of the playerbase and competition will not be an issue WHATSOEVER.

What bothers me is, well, how tedtious and dull this system is. It's god-awful. It feels straight out of Matt Firor's "we're working on more things to keep players BUSY" playbook. Because that's what these challenges are. They're busywork.

They're not "play however you want and still make progress." They're a list of chores that refresh every week. Kill 100 bosses. Harvest 90 runes (third time I've gotten that one). Harvest 90 lumber (third time again). Do 3 public dungeon event bosses in Wrothgar (third time). Do two arenas (second time). So on and so forth.

I didn't sign up for this game to do chores every week. I signed up to experience more Elder Scrolls, and Elder Scrolls is wandering and adventuring. It's doing quests. It's seeing freaky deaky things and laughing at them. It's basking in oodles of fantasy racism. Engaging in the over 500 HOURS of Elder Scrolls content that ZOS has built over 12 years of development.

... but if I do those things, I make no chore progress. None of my chores revolve around having FUN. None of my chores are tied to doing quests or exploring. If I want to get my chores done, the Elder Scrolls experience has to go by the wayside so that I can do oddly specific tasks designed by Peryite. That's abysmal game design. Shockingly abysmal. I'm almost speechless looking at it. The live service genre is increasingly divorced from any concept of bringing players actual joy.

Chores and an upcoming FOMO public dungeon event with, as far as I know, no group finder functionality. Oi vei.

I'm not going to unsubscribe yet, but I am not recommending this game to anyone in its present state. This is the HANDSHAKE phase of the battlepass system. It's only going to get more mean-spirited and tedious from here. We're still in the onboarding honeymoon phase. Let that sink in.

As for constructive criticism? Eh, no one would listen even if I offered it. These tasks are dull and tedious BY DESIGN. To keep players busy via chores that they literally PAID to do. To keep players so busy that they don't even think of wandering off to another game or service.

Except... players will. Dumping oodles of chores on your husband every week isn't going to stop him from noticing that winking secretary. He'll notice eventually, and then his sentiment towards you will be so beleagured and tortured that you'll have no hope of retaining him. It's a losing strategy. If someone stuck a gun to my head and told me to choose either Elder Scrolls Online or Marvel Rivals, I'd choose Marvel Rivals (after asking if I could substitute in Crimson Desert).

Oh well.

Edit addition: Also, yeah... ZOS oscillates depending on whoever has snagged the leadership baton for the year. Some years they acknowledge that game audiences have gotten older, take into account our more hectic schedules and limited free time, and push for a strong solo experience with optional grouping.

In other years, they doggedly insist that this is an MMO and we should EXPECT to be made to group. "Here's Bastion Nymic. No way to solo it. Better find a group or no progress for you!" "Hey, we're going back to the Craglorn adventure zone concept from 2015 that absolutely DID NOT WORK. If you want to make progress in excursion zones, you'll have to group or it'll be miserable. What's a matter? Don't you have FRIENDS to do stuff with? Better join a guild and make some, scrub! After all, this attitude did wonders for us a decade ago."

Inevitably, they'll lose more people pushing that kind of experience than they'll gain, and the next crab to scamper up to the top of the corporate barrel will shift things back to solo focus until the cycle begins again. It's just the way it goes.

shadoza · April 22

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I want to talk about how the Challenge system is impacting standard game play. I do not want to discuss who has a right to play or who plays the right way. I am sure there will be those replies that say: ‘I don’t see it.’ Good for you. For the rest of the players, I would like to hear how the challenge system impacts your game play. I am looking for honest comments not contentious or militant responses.

Can there be a way for the challenges to be enjoyed or completed without impacting standard game play?
What are some of your POLITE suggestions for players who feel that playing feels is more like competing with other players than enjoying a MMORPG style game?
Do you feel like grouping is the only answer to getting something done in the game?
Do you feel like the game is pushing group-play more than allowing a player to play their own way?

To be frank, the "competing with other players" thing doesn't bother me. The challenges are so tedious and dull that the competition on Week 2 was far less than Week 1. Eventually, I imagine that ZOS will have broken most of the playerbase and competition will not be an issue WHATSOEVER.

What bothers me is, well, how tedtious and dull this system is. It's god-awful. It feels straight out of Matt Firor's "we're working on more things to keep players BUSY" playbook. Because that's what these challenges are. They're busywork.

They're not "play however you want and still make progress." They're a list of chores that refresh every week. Kill 100 bosses. Harvest 90 runes (third time I've gotten that one). Harvest 90 lumber (third time again). Do 3 public dungeon event bosses in Wrothgar (third time). Do two arenas (second time). So on and so forth.

I didn't sign up for this game to do chores every week. I signed up to experience more Elder Scrolls, and Elder Scrolls is wandering and adventuring. It's doing quests. It's seeing freaky deaky things and laughing at them. It's basking in oodles of fantasy racism. Engaging in the over 500 HOURS of Elder Scrolls content that ZOS has built over 12 years of development.

... but if I do those things, I make no chore progress. None of my chores revolve around having FUN. None of my chores are tied to doing quests or exploring. If I want to get my chores done, the Elder Scrolls experience has to go by the wayside so that I can do oddly specific tasks designed by Peryite. That's abysmal game design. Shockingly abysmal. I'm almost speechless looking at it. The live service genre is increasingly divorced from any concept of bringing players actual joy.

Chores and an upcoming FOMO public dungeon event with, as far as I know, no group finder functionality. Oi vei.

I'm not going to unsubscribe yet, but I am not recommending this game to anyone in its present state. This is the HANDSHAKE phase of the battlepass system. It's only going to get more mean-spirited and tedious from here. We're still in the onboarding honeymoon phase. Let that sink in.

As for constructive criticism? Eh, no one would listen even if I offered it. These tasks are dull and tedious BY DESIGN. To keep players busy via chores that they literally PAID to do. To keep players so busy that they don't even think of wandering off to another game or service.

Except... players will. Dumping oodles of chores on your husband every week isn't going to stop him from noticing that winking secretary. He'll notice eventually, and then his sentiment towards you will be so beleagured and tortured that you'll have no hope of retaining him. It's a losing strategy. If someone stuck a gun to my head and told me to choose either Elder Scrolls Online or Marvel Rivals, I'd choose Marvel Rivals (after asking if I could substitute in Crimson Desert).

Oh well.

Edit addition: Also, yeah... ZOS oscillates depending on whoever has snagged the leadership baton for the year. Some years they acknowledge that game audiences have gotten older, take into account our more hectic schedules and limited free time, and push for a strong solo experience with optional grouping.

In other years, they doggedly insist that this is an MMO and we should EXPECT to be made to group. "Here's Bastion Nymic. No way to solo it. Better find a group or no progress for you!" "Hey, we're going back to the Craglorn adventure zone concept from 2015 that absolutely DID NOT WORK. If you want to make progress in excursion zones, you'll have to group or it'll be miserable. What's a matter? Don't you have FRIENDS to do stuff with? Better join a guild and make some, scrub! After all, this attitude did wonders for us a decade ago."

Inevitably, they'll lose more people pushing that kind of experience than they'll gain, and the next crab to scamper up to the top of the corporate barrel will shift things back to solo focus until the cycle begins again. It's just the way it goes.

I can feel your suffering in the words of your post. You sound very frustrated; exasperated even. I remember a time when ESO first wanted to make Tamriel group focused. They created One Tamriel after only a year of "Play the Way You Want to Play." Yes, that did not last long. One Tamriel didn't work out. I cannot say why because my gaming friends dropped off at that point. I followed after a couple months because everything was too challenging for my character to do alone. I came back later when the game was adjusted to be more solo and newb friendly. (My friends never came back. I could not talk them into it.)

What came to mind while reading the latter part of your post was TSW. Crashed and burned. It could not recover from its own bias. That was a huge impact on how I view game development currently. There was misplaced loyalty, development team was friends with players and they listened to THOSE players more than the general audience. They also pushed groups to the very end of existents. TSW pushed the solo players out of the game. Then, tried to claw them back by making group dungeons solo-friendly. But it was too late. They were already gone. When they reset the entire game under the legends title they immediately started repeating the last mistakes. What you are feeling, I have been there.

There is a way to serve both equally. I think we only need to talk it out.