April 20th Vengeance Only..

SaffronCitrusflower · April 20

Four_Fingers wrote: »

When Vengeance finally goes live and the seasoned PvP players that have been sitting it out return, I wonder how long it will be till posts show up whining that they are still getting killed.

PvP mains don't complain about getting killed unless it's from lag or a bug.

Four_Fingers · April 20

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

When Vengeance finally goes live and the seasoned PvP players that have been sitting it out return, I wonder how long it will be till posts show up whining that they are still getting killed.

PvP mains don't complain about getting killed unless it's from lag or a bug.

I was talking about PvE Vengeance players, the cause of this mess.

Nightwiish · April 20

Is GH disabled just for today or until next maintenance?

Muizer · April 20

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

to figure out what ZOS needed to do to improve live Cyrodiil.

That bit people seem just to have assumed. Never made any sense though.

BardokRedSnow · April 20

Muizer wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

to figure out what ZOS needed to do to improve live Cyrodiil.

That bit people seem just to have assumed. Never made any sense though.

No, zos literally originally said Vengeance was just a test so they could narrow down what the issue was in cyrodiil causing the performance issues. They say its sets, but the only time I get lag so thick I literally cant do anything is when multiple ballgroups show up. Not zergs, big fights etc, ballgroups specifically, like yesterday at arrius when there was at least four of them, from ad and dc, and then one or two also from ep, as well as all the other groups and pugs in one keep.

Ballgroups have gotten easier to kill though with the power of DKs plus the healing nerf, so more of that nerf is needed and allegedly coming.

Vengeance was presented as a test, now its their solution. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater is never a solution.

albertberku · April 20

Poss wrote: »

And vengeance is 100% nightblades so what is your point?

Well, i am going to say the sweaties that love to chase me in GH with their carry builds use nightblades in Veng. So you have a point. It is a tad stronger right now. But it is definitely not 100%. You play against Templars, Wardens, there are a lot of Magsorcs. There are actually 4 - 5 different classes involving at any fight. And most importantly NB is deadly but they are not also fast + tanky. That is what most matters. You can run away from them easily if you build for it, or you can attack and kill them. There are tradeoffs. No more carry builds, maybe not balanced, maybe stronger but not complete carry builds. Yes, it is not balanced still, but much much better than what is happening in GH rn.

In Vengeance right now you can fight against any class and if you die it will still be on you. The power gap is not that much between the builds. If someone kills you, they are probably better at weaving/rotation, they are not carried by their builds. In GH good luck in fights if you are not going to play one certain playstyle.

And what i love most about Vengeance is that the skills are distinct now. You dont fire 5 abilities at once. Streak has cooldown. Overload is its own skill, fires separately. Other abilities similarly. Fights are clearer. No GH chaos anymore with noone knowing what is happening on the field. And for that reason there were tremendous amount of new players in Cyrodiil tonight that were low level but still can understand and enjoy fights going on. That is why Vengeance will be successful, that is if they keep it that simple in the future. It doesnt need to be a button or mouse mesh simulator for it to contain skillful gameplay.

FENGRUSH · April 20

Albert is juiced up on copium with vengeance in full swing.

robertlabrie · April 20

It's interesting that the anti-vengeance camp just wants our old campaigns back and the pro-vengeance camp keeps trying to explain why we're wrong and that we should learn to like it.

DrMedBorn · April 20

Despite of pretty much all people hating it(the loud ones) the campaign is full of people and it's very very fun

SaffronCitrusflower · April 20

Four_Fingers wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

When Vengeance finally goes live and the seasoned PvP players that have been sitting it out return, I wonder how long it will be till posts show up whining that they are still getting killed.

PvP mains don't complain about getting killed unless it's from lag or a bug.

I was talking about PvE Vengeance players, the cause of this mess.

Ah, I misunderstood. Glad to see we are in agreement as to the situation.

SaffronCitrusflower · April 20

Muizer wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

to figure out what ZOS needed to do to improve live Cyrodiil.

That bit people seem just to have assumed. Never made any sense though.

It always made sense up until ZOS made the statement there was nothing they could do to fix Cyrodiil. ZOS' origninal statements regarding the purpose of vengeance was specifically and exactly that they were doing vengance tests to see how they could improve live Cyrodiil. ZOS made this statement numerous times, in numerous threads and announcements. And for a decade ZOS vehemently exclaimed they were working on live Cyrodiil performance.

This means ZOS was not putting in the efforts they said they were over all those years and that they were deceptive or flat lied about the purpose of vengeance.

Jabbs_Giggity · April 21

Maitsukas wrote: »

If they would stop doing these tests (as the very vocal anti-Vengeance players demand it), what should ZOS be doing instead? If the answer is nothing, then you've pretty much doomed Cyrodiil for everyone.

Idk, maybe test it themselves instead of using unpaid player base to test a concept that most are against.
Perhaps forcing their own employees to test it, instead of us, will give them some actual insight into PVP and they'll learn something? Wishful thinking...

SaffronCitrusflower · April 21

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Maitsukas wrote: »

If they would stop doing these tests (as the very vocal anti-Vengeance players demand it), what should ZOS be doing instead? If the answer is nothing, then you've pretty much doomed Cyrodiil for everyone.

Idk, maybe test it themselves instead of using unpaid player base to test a concept that most are against.
Perhaps forcing their own employees to test it, instead of us, will give them some actual insight into PVP and they'll learn something? Wishful thinking...

ZOS has a long and illustrious history of using the PvP community as lab rats. I'll never forget the three months of "tests" we endured about five or six years ago. All that came of all that "testing" was they lowered the pop cap yet again with no notification that's what they did.

I was happy to help and believed they were trying back then. Given no improvements have ever happened in Cyrodiil except when they installed new server hardware, I learned my lesson a long time ago. No reason to help ZOS alpha test their new systems. That's for the devs to do or they can pay us with perks like a month of ESO+ or any number of other ways ZOS has available to compensate those who help them with their "tests".

albertberku · April 21

I mean pro-Vengeance people doesnt really give a s about your opinions as "PvP veterans" (lol) on Vengeance. We are enjoying ourselves and the campaign is full of players. You are the minority here. You will just diminish as your beloved Grey Host will do. Soo there is that. You had your fun, you got carried by your builds extensively in the recent years. Now the fun is over.

Heath3n · April 21

Performance has been terrible, and ranged builds are limited to melee range... so whats the point? How is this fun? Guess im not playing ESO for a week then...

robertlabrie · April 21

albertberku wrote: »

I mean pro-Vengeance people doesnt really give a s about your opinions as "PvP veterans" (lol) on Vengeance. We are enjoying ourselves and the campaign is full of players. You are the minority here. You will just diminish as your beloved Grey Host will do. Soo there is that. You had your fun, you got carried by your builds extensively in the recent years. Now the fun is over.

You could have had your fun without disabling Greyhost. They tried it once - and veng was dead.

imPDA · April 21

olsborg wrote: »

Ive pvped since 2014 and I think Vengeance is better pvpmode then the "normal" pvp you see in cyrodiil these days, its 99.9% about what sets you use and what class you are, very little about skill. Vengeance is mostly about skill.

Skill to zerg people? You hardly can find 1v1, hardly can avoid zerging. I used to take recourse solo and then kite, survive and kill as much as I can, but in Vengeance you just can't do it effectively. 3 people with 90% chance will kill you if you try to attack, so all you can is run and wait until there is only one enemy.

ceruulean · April 21

Skill to zerg people? You hardly can find 1v1, hardly can avoid zerging. I used to take recourse solo and then kite, survive and kill as much as I can, but in Vengeance you just can't do it effectively. 3 people with 90% chance will kill you if you try to attack, so all you can is run and wait until there is only one enemy.

Can't kill against a 1v3? Skill issue, git gud

Man the ESO brainrot is real. In what game is it reasonable to 1v10 and win?

Oblivion_Protocol · April 21

ceruulean wrote: »

Can't kill against a 1v3? Skill issue, git gud

Man the ESO brainrot is real. In what game is it reasonable to 1v10 and win?

ESO. That’s where it’s reasonable. If you can create space, los, kite, and isolate people, you can kill multiple players chasing you around one by one. I do it constantly. Then I make a game of guessing how many people are going to teabag me or send me hate whispers when they finally kill me after chasing me for ten minutes.

SneaK · April 21

albertberku wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

And vengeance is 100% nightblades so what is your point?

Well, i am going to say the sweaties that love to chase me in GH with their carry builds use nightblades in Veng. So you have a point. It is a tad stronger right now. But it is definitely not 100%. You play against Templars, Wardens, there are a lot of Magsorcs. There are actually 4 - 5 different classes involving at any fight. And most importantly NB is deadly but they are not also fast + tanky. That is what most matters. You can run away from them easily if you build for it, or you can attack and kill them. There are tradeoffs. No more carry builds, maybe not balanced, maybe stronger but not complete carry builds. Yes, it is not balanced still, but much much better than what is happening in GH rn.

In Vengeance right now you can fight against any class and if you die it will still be on you. The power gap is not that much between the builds. If someone kills you, they are probably better at weaving/rotation, they are not carried by their builds. In GH good luck in fights if you are not going to play one certain playstyle.

And what i love most about Vengeance is that the skills are distinct now. You dont fire 5 abilities at once. Streak has cooldown. Overload is its own skill, fires separately. Other abilities similarly. Fights are clearer. No GH chaos anymore with noone knowing what is happening on the field. And for that reason there were tremendous amount of new players in Cyrodiil tonight that were low level but still can understand and enjoy fights going on. That is why Vengeance will be successful, that is if they keep it that simple in the future. It doesnt need to be a button or mouse mesh simulator for it to contain skillful gameplay.

Lol this guy, you see low levels cause Vengeance is a place to level alts and that’s it, you don’t have to be level 50 or cp etc to run the meta. Literally coping at its finest.

Also, another lol at “building” to run away.

JohnRingo · April 21

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

.

Maximus_Mordred wrote: »

ToddIngram wrote: »

No amount of hyping by the vocal minority will change that.

Pot, meet kettle.

if greyhost is the pot, ironically vengeance is a very small kettle. A minority, of a minority trying to attract a majority (PvE) that despises competitive play in the first place.

Whoever thought it a good idea to attempt to make pvp more competitive and balanced by stripping everything the game's been known for, to appease people who hate everything about competitive play... really needs to be studied. Especially since all they actually did was make it a numbers game zerg fest even more than Greyhost ever was.

The only people who will stay in vengeance long term are the same ones who occupy the now dead ravenwatch, BR and below 50 campaigns. Jaded bitter pvpers that just wanna zerg, and pvers that just want their tier 3 rewards.

This is brilliant (and spot on). Well done.

xR3ACTORx · April 21

albertberku wrote: »

I mean pro-Vengeance people doesnt really give a s about your opinions as "PvP veterans" (lol) on Vengeance. We are enjoying ourselves and the campaign is full of players. You are the minority here. You will just diminish as your beloved Grey Host will do. Soo there is that. You had your fun, you got carried by your builds extensively in the recent years. Now the fun is over.

Pro GH players really doesn't give a *** about your opinion nor they take it for serious.But it's funny to read how you comfort yourself by making things up.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · April 21

Glad to see Vengeance back up! It is nice to have some balance added and have actually Player vs Player instead of Build vs Build. It is nice to be able to take the field as a REAL Warden again! To see other REAL Classes on the field! There is a multitude of builds out there, not just 3! It is enjoyable to see some hours long battles out there on top of the broken castle walls😎 It is nice to see people in Cyrodiil who would not otherwise be there! And a lot more to come before the week is out!

albertberku · April 21

How confident it makes some players, getting the most OP build every patch, opening a K/D counter and then just looking for the group of most casual players they can find. And then just sprint in circles around structures, use one ultimate in between, kill the most squishy ones and then call it a 3vX, 2vX, 1vX. Pro GH players, PvP Veterans.

dcrush · April 21

This forum thread has better pvp than Vengeance.

xR3ACTORx · April 21

Most people just see themselves when pointing fingers.

King_of_zor · April 21

So, I guess Update 50 kills Cyrodiil as we know it (at least to those who Don't live in Gray Host). Those PvEers that learn PvP in Vengeance will stay there after they find out they'll have to re-learn everything when they go to Gray Host. Oh, well. I needed the break from this anyway.

- Rest in Peace (again), Cyrodiil

xR3ACTORx · April 21

King_of_zor wrote: »

- Rest in Peace (again), Cyrodiil

It was fun while it lasted

Poss · April 21

albertberku wrote: »

How confident it makes some players, getting the most OP build every patch, opening a K/D counter and then just looking for the group of most casual players they can find. And then just sprint in circles around structures, use one ultimate in between, kill the most squishy ones and then call it a 3vX, 2vX, 1vX. Pro GH players, PvP Veterans.

I apologise on behalf of the entire PvP community for whatever trauma you endured in GH. Must have been tough seeing how it lingers in every single one of your words.

Alas, I am thrilled that Vengeance with its combination of 5 or so pre-made builds is bringing you the pleasure you clearly so desperately crave ❤️

Nordstern · April 21

If you die 1v1 in vengeance, you probably fell asleep. The balance between damage and hp is non existent.
But if the reason for your complaints about GH is the "OP builds" you should be fine with a reduction of HP to max. 40-50k and removal of every defensive perk but a buff to healing strength, right? Would still be "only skill" then.