The Silence On Antiquity Leads Is Defeaning!

Gabriel_H · April 19

It's that time again. I'm lead farming and waiting around for spawns (more on that in a bit), so it is time for me to yet again post about the utter travesty that is the antiquity lead RNG.

With all the improvements, class refreshes, QoL, and heck even lorebooks got a pass (only about 50% of the problem fixed but a start), but I am yet to see anything about antiquity lead farming. This isn't just the absolutely abysmal drop rate of Solstice treasure chest leads, I'm talking about all the leads.

When Gold Road came out ZOS kindly upped the drop rate for the 1st, but only the 1st, iteration. Subsequent iterations are still at the historically poor rates, if not worse. This coupled with the 3 codex entries needed for us completionists, as well as needed to unlock buying antiquity furniture for gold, means some of us spend an awful lot of our in-game time farming leads.

The annoyance of the new tome challenges not being either a vehicle for aiding lead farming on more difficult content, or that tome rewards doesn't contain a pack of leads with missing codex entries, cannot be overstated.

This is the easiest quality of life change going. It doesn't require re-coding, or extra code, it requires changing a % on a few loot tables. Heck, send me the tables and I'll do it! The table should be along the lines of 1st - 100%, 2nd - 50%, 3rd - 25%, 4th+ whatever the heck you want. Having a couple of vendors very slowly cycle through the leads once a week is not a solution, changing the drop rates is.

I'm farming my 3rd iteration of the Glyphic Secrets Music Box. It includes a lead that drops from, what is in at least my opinion as someone who has solo'd every world boss except one, the Prime Cataloger - want to take a guess what my one non-solo is?! Apocrypha is a half-dead zone. Waiting for others to show up to help tackle this boss is time consuming. The low numbers of people who do show up mean the fight lasts an age. I'm now past TWO DOZENS kills on this boss and no lead.

Change the loot tables, or at least say something about what possible rational you could have for not doing so.

AzuraFan · April 19

I agree. The antiquities RNG is the one thing that sometimes makes me want to just quit the game and do something more enjoyable and satisfying with my gaming time, i.e. play something else.

During the anniversary event, and because of the 1000 kill challenge, I tried to get a lead from a Hew's Bane WB. I killed that boss over and over and over and over and over and over and over... and no lead. And it's not one I can kill solo, so I've probably lost my opportunity to get it for a while.

There are times a lead will drop for me on the first try or quickly, for sure. But too often, especially with activities that are more difficult, there are leads that just won't drop for me. Yeah, we can buy them, but do you want me to spend time in game, or not? And how long do I have to wait for that lead to appear in the pathetic two vendors we have that only accept PvP and IA currency?

Anyway, we're probably shouting into the wind here.

spartaxoxo · April 19

I'm somewhat convinced that there's a secret rng thingy for leads that determines if you'll have much luck that day. And if you do, you can get multiple leads. But if not, grind all day, it won't matter. So, I don't even try for leads until I get a decently rare one randomly doing other stuff.

Idk if it's actually working but it's saving my sanity and have gotten a couple rare leads fairly quickly with this system. Which that possible coincidence is good enough for me.

BretonMage · April 19

Well, I've been trying to get my second Infinite Tome for over 2 years.. So yeah, I agree that the system is an utter travesty.

Diminish · April 19

Coming from someone who spent upwards of 18 hours straight picking flowers in Shadowfen to get the Tide-Glass Beads for the Harpooner's Wading Kilt I personally think the drop rate on leads is fine. Most of them you get rather quickly (some would argue, too quickly). Don't take this the wrong way OP, but I don't see why a change to the drop chance is necessary because someone is having an issue getting their 3rd one to drop... If anything, overworld could use even more extremely rare items, rather via leads or not, to give people a reason to hang out in various zones more. Outside of a few very rare furniture items in just a couple zones, there really isn't anything to put a bunch of long-term farming into.

BretonMage · April 19

Diminish wrote: »

Coming from someone who spent upwards of 18 hours straight picking flowers in Shadowfen to get the Tide-Glass Beads for the Harpooner's Wading Kilt I personally think the drop rate on leads is fine. Most of them you get rather quickly (some would argue, too quickly). Don't take this the wrong way OP, but I don't see why a change to the drop chance is necessary because someone is having an issue getting their 3rd one to drop... If anything, overworld could use even more extremely rare items, rather via leads or not, to give people a reason to hang out in various zones more. Outside of a few very rare furniture items in just a couple zones, there really isn't anything to put a bunch of long-term farming into.

Mythics are nothing compared to antiquity furnishings. Their RNG is much more favourable than those for furnishings, and I've never spent more than a week farming for a Mythic. Also one never needs multiple copies of a mythic, unlike furnishings.

I fail to see why housing enthusiasts should be discriminated against in this game. Why should we be the ones burdened with impossible-to-obtain items? Our time is no less valuable than others'.

anadandy · April 19

Furnishings leads should be a one and done (or for multipart items like crafting stations one complete and done.) Then you can buy subsequent Furnishings at the achievement vendor. No one is getting OP because they bought 10 Colovian tapestries.

Rishikesa108 · April 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm somewhat convinced that there's a secret rng thingy for leads that determines if you'll have much luck that day. And if you do, you can get multiple leads. But if not, grind all day, it won't matter. So, I don't even try for leads until I get a decently rare one randomly doing other stuff.

Idk if it's actually working but it's saving my sanity and have gotten a couple rare leads fairly quickly with this system. Which that possible coincidence is good enough for me.

Yes, you are right. You get the point. There are tables, and when you log in you random go in one table. Tables have different rate to obtain items (leads or other rare drops). If you log in a good table, you'll get items, otherwise not.

Gabriel_H · April 20

Diminish wrote: »

Coming from someone who spent upwards of 18 hours straight picking flowers in Shadowfen to get the Tide-Glass Beads for the Harpooner's Wading Kilt I personally think the drop rate on leads is fine. Most of them you get rather quickly (some would argue, too quickly). Don't take this the wrong way OP, but I don't see why a change to the drop chance is necessary because someone is having an issue getting their 3rd one to drop... If anything, overworld could use even more extremely rare items, rather via leads or not, to give people a reason to hang out in various zones more. Outside of a few very rare furniture items in just a couple zones, there really isn't anything to put a bunch of long-term farming into.

It's not just about one lead, this has been an ongoing complaint since the system came out. The oddities of the system are unfathomable.

For furniture - a non-gameplay changing item - you need 3 codex entries to unlock purchasing for gold, but for Mythics - a gameplay altering item - you only need 1 out of 3 codex entries for unlimited reconstructs with transmutes.

For Treasure Map leads you have two sets of RNG, one to get the map, the other to get the lead. When Solstice Maps were on sale in IA, someone bought over 300 maps to get all 3 codex entries for the antiquities and I think they were still one short. 300 Maps is millions in gold, or more than 100 hours of IA fortune farming. That's insane!

I spent less than 20 hours progging the Coral Aerie Hardmode (use the skeleton polymorph on the last boss btw - smaller hitbox, it helps). I've now spent more than 10 hours farming one lead in overland, not one antiquity - one lead - because ZOS put the drop on one of the toughest WBs in the game, in a zone that is now half-dead. That needs addressing. All the leads need addressing.

Al_Ex_Andre · April 20

Agreed.

The easy fix imo, is to offer more suggested leads to buy per week at the Infinite archive and Imperial City. The more leads the better, because yes curently this is ...*edit*well the drop is not very good, too low too random too time sink..

(Reasonably priced to boot.)

ankeor · April 20

Diminish wrote: »

Coming from someone who spent upwards of 18 hours straight picking flowers in Shadowfen to get the Tide-Glass Beads for the Harpooner's Wading Kilt I personally think the drop rate on leads is fine. Most of them you get rather quickly (some would argue, too quickly). Don't take this the wrong way OP, but I don't see why a change to the drop chance is necessary because someone is having an issue getting their 3rd one to drop... If anything, overworld could use even more extremely rare items, rather via leads or not, to give people a reason to hang out in various zones more. Outside of a few very rare furniture items in just a couple zones, there really isn't anything to put a bunch of long-term farming into.

That sounds like "As a masochist I think pain is fine"

ApoAlaia · April 20

It can be said louder but not clearer. It is nigh time that this gets a QoL pass.

Personally I have given up on furniture leads that come from treasure maps because the drop chance is hilariously low.

Tangentially related, hyperioxes has a handful of builds on his website that are suited to solo every single WB in the game providing that the player doesn't have any accessibility-related issues that prevents them from using them.

I have soloed The Prime Cataloguer myself a number of times. The spawn mechanics (where it spawns shielded copies of itself and one has to run around to the four corners of the arena, multiple times 'per wave' if one doesn't have the DPS required to defeat the copy in one 'shield drop' cycle) makes it exceedingly tedious to defeat but is more a matter of patience than anything else. It only has one 'gotcha' mechanic and is clearly telegraphed.

Of course the fact that is tedious and time consuming to solo only compounds the frustration of the risible drop rate of the lead.

Asking people for help is often not an option either; is not a particularly enticing proposition given that it doesn't drop anything remarkable and is likely to be a multi-session affair.

There is also the additional compounding frustration of players that didn't much care for the lead and are there out of good will getting the lead and one remaining 'leadless'.

I experienced this multiple times on my ''''''chase''''' - as they like to put it - for the 'Twitching Eyeball' lead.

People came, people got the lead, people left because ICP can get incredibly tedious even if one only runs it up to the encounter with the Gravelight Sentry; in the end I had to solo it - thanks **** companions can interrupt - another 18-20 times until I got the wretched thing.

I have heard 'respecting player's time' mentioned in streams on a few occasions, please make it so because this is not it.

Thoriorz · April 20

I’m something like a Antiquities Hunter, and this system is pretty much the main thing I enjoy about the game. I started playing ESO in mid-2024 and took one long break (about 8 months) during which I didn’t play at all. Right now, my codex its 3/3 for all things, and I have good idea how hard it was to do that.

In this system, Lead drops are highly random; some things can be done "easily" at 3/3, while for others the grind is insanely long, even if the given Lead drops from harder content.

For example, Lead for furnishing that drops from dragons in North Elsweyr. I had to kill around a hundred dragons for the second codex entry, and I needed about the same number for the third (I don’t remember the exact numbers—it’s been a while—but I know it was a real pain grind). Dragons aren’t that easy to farm; they have a ton of HP, and not many people go there anymore, so you’re often on your own, etc.

Leads for Apocryphal Well—I opened more than 500 Treasure Maps and still didn’t get 3/3 codex. It wasn’t until Pan Tamriel event (which gave better chances of dropping Leads from Treasure Maps) that I managed to get 3/3. Without it, who knows if I would’ve ever put together a 3/3. It’s pure pain when you consider that you’re practically at the mercy of the market because you can’t really farm the exact Treasure Maps you need (not counting IA). In my opinion, Apocryphal Well Leads is one of the worst things in the whole Antiquities.

Generally speaking, the leads from Treasure Maps need to be reworked somehow because they’re really not good right now.

But aside from a few exceptions, I really like this, and it’s something I really enjoy in ESO. I also have to say that in the last Solstice zone, gring wasn’t that difficult, and I think Leads drop better (I don’t know if it’s just me or if the devs manage better Leads drop rate), and gring for the Solstice Antiquities 3/3 codex wasn’t too much of a pain, not counting the ones from Treasure Maps. I spent around 15 million gold on Leads from Treasure Map for Solstice (I was buying maps for around 20-30k each).

So I hope the devs have Antiquities in mind and that we’ll see some nice changes in the future (especially when it comes to Treasure Maps).

Diminish · April 20

ankeor wrote: »

That sounds like "As a masochist I think pain is fine"

Not necessarily, I just understand that RNG is RNG. Some things you get quickly, others you don't, and there is absolutely zero issue in that. I went and solo'd this WB after my previous post just to see what the OP was on about. Took like 5 - 8 minutes. One attempt, no wipes. If they can do vCA HM, they are capable of putting together a solo build that can complete this boss without much issue. What we don't need is even more in this game being made simpler; there has been far too much of that already. People (OP included) complain about dead zones now, but they want everything in a zone to just be handed to them so they never return there... that's the most illogical take ever. Treasure map leads, I get that, and support a change there. Killing a WB for a drop? Not so much.

Gabriel_H · April 20

Diminish wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

That sounds like "As a masochist I think pain is fine"

Not necessarily, I just understand that RNG is RNG. Some things you get quickly, others you don't, and there is absolutely zero issue in that. I went and solo'd this WB after my previous post just to see what the OP was on about. Took like 5 - 8 minutes. One attempt, no wipes. If they can do vCA HM, they are capable of putting together a solo build that can complete this boss without much issue. What we don't need is even more in this game being made simpler; there has been far too much of that already. People (OP included) complain about dead zones now, but they want everything in a zone to just be handed to them so they never return there... that's the most illogical take ever. Treasure map leads, I get that, and support a change there. Killing a WB for a drop? Not so much.

Handed to me? Lol

As I said in my opening post, ZOS already moved to a ~100% drop chance on the first lead. It's the subsequent drop rates that are an insult to players time. Changing the 3rd iteration to a 25% drop isn't handing anybody anything. It still requires effort, it still could take 10 kills or you could get lucky and get it on the first kill.

Sure, I can put together a build to solo it. Let me just level an entirely different class that I don't want to play. invest 20+ hours in that, so I can spend another 20+ hours solo farming the boss until the lead eventually drops. Or you know, ZOS could give a QoL pass over antiquities like they have done with everything else.

Premise: Spending as much time progging one of the hardest hardmode dungeons in the game should not take as long as getting a piece of non-gameplay altering furniture. By all means debate why you feel my premise is flawed. And do try to include how you think 6.5+ hours is acceptable (that would be (8 minutes to kill + 5 minute respawn time) x 30 attempts) without being "illogical".

ankeor · April 21

Diminish wrote: »

ankeor wrote: »

That sounds like "As a masochist I think pain is fine"

Not necessarily, I just understand that RNG is RNG. Some things you get quickly, others you don't, and there is absolutely zero issue in that. I went and solo'd this WB after my previous post just to see what the OP was on about. Took like 5 - 8 minutes. One attempt, no wipes. If they can do vCA HM, they are capable of putting together a solo build that can complete this boss without much issue. What we don't need is even more in this game being made simpler; there has been far too much of that already. People (OP included) complain about dead zones now, but they want everything in a zone to just be handed to them so they never return there... that's the most illogical take ever. Treasure map leads, I get that, and support a change there. Killing a WB for a drop? Not so much.

You are misrepresenting the point made here. No one said we want things handed to us neither complained RNG in other aspects in game as they fixed many things like transmutation for traits and creating sticker books for set items.
Problem with RNG here is that you don't if you ever get what you want at all regardless of the amout of effort you put.

We were farming Sunspire and Lair of Marselook with my friend. She got her lead in Sunspire from 2nd run in the day.
I got mine several weeks later. In Lair of Marselook exact opposite happened.

Saying RNG is RNG doesn't make it fun, engaging or interesting. It is frustating.
I get one furnishing lead 68 times without trying and another one I got zero. Clearly there is no standard drop rate between different leads. And we don't know why.

Emeratis · April 21

I've literally progged hardmodes/trifectas in less time than it's taken me to get a lead I've actively been chasing. This feels very backwards and the system needs to change. Nobody is asking for things to be handed to them, what we want is a proper sense of progression and to get a fair reward for time/effort spent. I would love to see some sort of pity system or alternative ways to get a lead we want to work towards. I have tried for the bastion nymic lead 2-3x a day almost every day for over a year and still have not gotten it. This kind of rng is just unfun and frustrating, especially for leads you cannot farm alone (dungeons, trials, etc).

twisttop138 · April 21

It's weird but kinda funny. All these big touted quality of life changes this year. The big banner thing for this year. So many of the changes are like monkey's paw versions of what we asked for. You better lead RNG? Have leads that last a year before expiring, good luck finding them. Treasure maps are clogging up our inventory. Can they maybe stack like surveys do? Here, have your maps stack peasant, but if you wanna see what map they are, you are back in the same boat. Cool changes sure. But I'd like to know how they got to these conclusions from what the community asked for. Like a game of telephone.

Furnishings leads should not be so hard to get, period. If you wanna punish yourself, feel free to wander the zones you think need to be populated, be the change you want to see.

Treasure chest leads should just not be a thing. I shouldn't have to randomly get a map, open it and randomly get the zone I want and then have a low random chance to get the lead. That's random-ception dude. It might be a war crime.

Displaced_Salad · April 21

RNG is never addressed. It's always promises but a few breadcrumbs of some QoL improvements is about all that pans out, if that.

The silence on a lot of issues is deafening in general, but lets just look at the in-game feedback system, for instance. How many years have we had antiquities and companions now? And is there a category that fits those things? Nope. Those are both big enough mechanics to warrant at least a sub category. And they aren't the only new mechanics/features to be left out.

I'd like to think that seeking common information and suggesting/asking for help/information is more helpful that flooding the system with carbon copy support tickets from multiple players, hence the existence of the forums. But it's just screaming into the void. And I remember that every time I might be tempted to spend money.

Silaf · April 21

My only complaint are the leads associated with treasure maps. All the others are manageable for me. I'm one of those 3 leads furnishing collectors by the way.

For mythic items i suggest the full description should be unlocked when you complete the mytic item since you can reconstruct it as many times as you want with a transmute station.

Munkfist · April 22

As a completionist myself, on several accounts even, I really enjoy the grind and effort it takes to complete the codex. It'd feel much less rewarding if you had a 1/4 chance of getting the lead. I'm close on finishing the full codex on an alternate account and I feel that the time invested has been worth it.

It's another activity to do in the game to shake things up a bit before trial grouping or other things.

Personally, I hope it stays the way it is, but I understand not so many people may enjoy the slow grind and prefer instant gratification.

BretonMage · April 22

I think you might feel differently if you actually needed the item. Imagine if it took us a year to get Velothi or RoPO. No one's asking for instant gratification, just fair treatment.

Mythics: 5-part antiquity, can be reconstructed after getting first codex.
Furnishings: up to 10-part antiquity; needs all 3 codices to be completed before able to purchase; some blue/green tier furnishings can't be purchased ever; some furnishings depend on two layers of RNG where you need to get the correct map, then to get the correct lead.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

For furniture - a non-gameplay changing item - you need 3 codex entries to unlock purchasing for gold, but for Mythics - a gameplay altering item - you only need 1 out of 3 codex entries for unlimited reconstructs with transmutes.

If we can reconstruct Mythics after obtaining the first codex, we should likewise be able to purchase all (including green and blue tiered ones) antiquity furnishings after completing the first codex.

It really is as simple as that.

Gabriel_H · April 22

Munkfist wrote: »

Personally, I hope it stays the way it is, but I understand not so many people may enjoy the slow grind and prefer instant gratification.

Instant gratification?

Definiton: Fulfilling a desire instantly without delay. Choosing quick, small rewards over long-term, larger benefits.

Doesn't apply in this case.

Gabriel_H · April 22

Emeratis wrote: »

I've literally progged hardmodes/trifectas in less time than it's taken me to get a lead I've actively been chasing. This feels very backwards and the system needs to change. Nobody is asking for things to be handed to them, what we want is a proper sense of progression and to get a fair reward for time/effort spent. I would love to see some sort of pity system or alternative ways to get a lead we want to work towards. I have tried for the bastion nymic lead 2-3x a day almost every day for over a year and still have not gotten it. This kind of rng is just unfun and frustrating, especially for leads you cannot farm alone (dungeons, trials, etc).

My 2nd iteration of Glyphic Secrets took me over 100 Bastian Nymics to drop from the reward coffers, after finidng all other leads.

From my own observations, leads from coffers typically have a much higher chance once you've dug up associated leads. Nymics (one of the dullest pieces of content in the game) seems to be the exception.

I'm not looking forward to grinding another 100, once I've finished grinding The Cataloger (Coming up on 4 dozen kills).

LootAllTheStuff · April 22

Munkfist wrote: »

As a completionist myself, on several accounts even, I really enjoy the grind and effort it takes to complete the codex. It'd feel much less rewarding if you had a 1/4 chance of getting the lead. I'm close on finishing the full codex on an alternate account and I feel that the time invested has been worth it.

It's another activity to do in the game to shake things up a bit before trial grouping or other things.

Personally, I hope it stays the way it is, but I understand not so many people may enjoy the slow grind and prefer instant gratification.

There's slow grind, and then there's proceeding glacially in totally the wrong direction. No-one here is asking for instant gratification; they just want the double-locked leads to drop in a reasonable amount of time for everyone.

These furnishing leads are an area I absolutely refuse to grind for simply because there is no guarantee that I will get what I would like.

Put simply, when taking into account both the need for a specific zone map and then getting the lead from the chest, the drop rates are just abysmally low. As has been stated multiple times, one very simple QoL improvement would be that opening an unidentified map in a specific zone would give you a treasure chest in that zone. A second would be raising the drop chances for the 2nd and 3rd leads required before you can purchase additional items from the vendor. IMO these should actually be the same as for the first drop, but definitely not what they currently are.

allochthons · April 22

Hear hear. The RNG for antiquities absolutely needs to be revisited. Higher drop rates and/or (AND!) weighted RNG.

This is a major, huge, massive, pain point.

ETA: and STOP putting them in treasure maps. At least DLC treasure maps. Multiple RNGs is ... cruel.

anadandy · April 22

Munkfist wrote: »

Personally, I hope it stays the way it is, but I understand not so many people may enjoy the slow grind and prefer instant gratification.

Please don't. How "slow" does the grind need to not be considered "instant gratification" Gold Road came out almost two years ago. I grinded those dailies like it was my paying job and only got the third music box lead about 4 months ago. I still only have 1/3 leads for any of the Colovian tapestries. I'm glad you find it enjoyable but let's not minimize the frustration of garbage drop rates and nested RNG by saying people want instant gratification.

cozmic72 · April 22

Or increase the Solstice treasure map drop rate. Haven’t had one drop in months despite actively playing every day.

SjornParadox52 · April 22

The one lead i've been having issues with is a mythic piece for the Belharza's band, from deadlands daily quests. That thing is so rare it's like it doesn't exist!

AzuraFan · April 22

SjornParadox52 wrote: »

The one lead i've been having issues with is a mythic piece for the Belharza's band, from deadlands daily quests. That thing is so rare it's like it doesn't exist!

I spotted it having drinks with Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa.

As for instant gratification, nobody is asking for that. We're just saying that chasing a lead for weeks/months with no luck is a terrible player experience. Most players like to be rewarded for the time they invest in a game. When you put in tons of time and get a bit fat zero in return, that's when you start looking at other games.

FlameDark · April 22

The problem with ridiculous rng leads, is the exact same problem with immunity phases on bosses... the whole point is to extend your time playing. People want things to do, and they want challenging boss fights that don't last 2 seconds before you destroy them. So we get immunity phases and leads that take wayyyyy too long to complete in an attempt to keep us engaged and the activity longer. The problem with that is, it's very hollow. It doesn't feel like a victory or an accomplishment. When you get the lead you don't go "wow that was a challenge, I might do that again in the future! I felt like I earned it!" instead it's more "thank every divine that's over with. Never. Again". They have the right idea, players want more engaging content that cant be done in 10 minutes, but the execution is... soul killing. I want to have fun playing a game, not button mash the same 2 second kill mob for over 4 hours and get bored out of my mind doing so. I want to give up because its too challenging, not because I want to stab myself in the eye if I have to do another loop around the map.