I am against Vengeance and will not participate it, but even I confused why these passives are part of Veterancy. It really makes feeling like this system is more rewarding for Vengeance than for BGs or usual Cyro. I am not going to play it; could you replace them with something more useful across all PvP activity?

Damn this system could save big part of PvP players, just provide something PvP unique, mounts/skill styles/costumes (a little bit more than we have now), like 3 styles from BGs, so players could distinct casual player from PvP tryhards, and PvP players would be happy. It is understandable tho you are pushing Vengeance, you wasted too much time to let it die right now, but it will die soon after release.

Second part of misunderstanding, Vengeance appeared to be equal for everyone and super easy and grind-free (you don't even need to level skill or create a build), so any mid player could join zerg and feel the heat of the battle (standing in one place heavy attacking zerg of other color or sieging, but it does not matter), but now it appears you still need to grind something and if you don't participate it regularly, you may not have a chance to build the way you want?

When they are like:

• Ballgroups are too sweaty and competitive and ruin Greyhost
• We are going to vengence
• Vengence is also where the skilled players will be
• But also Ballgroups are the competitive ones ruining it for casuals
• That's why we are going to go to Vengence and then ballgroups can just be alone in Greyhost
• But only skilled players will be in Vengence!

I love how the enemy is both strong and weak at the same time

MoonlightShadow wrote: »

Something to note is that again it implies that leveling Veterancy = more powerful in Vengeance giving an unfair advantage to those who unlock Veterancy faster. Since I have not viewed the PTS yet, this is how it reads to someone who has not checked it out. Why give a power boost only to those who unlock stages of Veterancy? It currently implies that to get a strategic advantage in Vengeance you must level Veterancy and those who level it fastest get the best advantages.

Idk if you've ever designed a game, but the honest truth is that people want an advantage for time played and seniority. However, in any competitive game, your raw skill and performance are the only thing that matters. "Time played" is not a factor in MMR/ELO/Ranking scores.

Vengeance perks unlocked as you grind PvP for the season rank are a way to compromise. It's not really a huge time investment, since the perks are front-loaded and unlock fast if you zerg surf for a bit. They'll get reset at the start of a new season so everyone starts fresh and on equal footing again. Kinda like how people are super excited for WOW classic reboots and resets.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

All that's been achieved is the removal of non alliance locked cyrodiil for those who wish to play non-vengeance on characters they have on other factions this will no longer be possible.

Condensing the queue is good for the health of Gray Host. The population is too low to even split off a couple dozen guys. Vengeance isn't competing for those players.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

The people who like Vengeance are going to play Vengeance, and the people who like GH are going to play GH.

Exactly. Deleting Vengeance wouldn't bring me to GH, it just means I don't log in. With the class reworks there is some hope for GH but that is still in the future.

JohnRingo wrote: »

Join me in Grey Host. DK and ball group hunters...you and me. We will kill them for sport. Give yourself to the dark side.

I'll try U50 like I do every 3mo, but I don't think the meta will be enjoyable for me until they finish all or most of the class reworks. That's a huge upgrade over last year's hopelessness!

The Uninvited wrote: »

Darethran wrote: »

And, you know, Vengeance being a much better balanced playing field with triple the player count while having no lag. We finally have an option for warfare in Cyrodiil.

The last time Vengeance was on it lagged even worse than Gray Host.

Edit: And it isn't "better" balanced, it's all about who has the larger zerg.

This was my experience as well and a big part of why I'll never touch vengeance again. If performance isn't going to be any better then why should I have to trash all my sets I've farmed over almost 12 years? And with no need to get sets for PvP, there is no reason for me to PvE either. It really does seem like ZOS has not thought this out very well at all.

Such great commentary here and really getting to the heart of Gray Host's current position. From PS5 NA perspective here is how things will probably play out. Currently in Gray Host you have a group of people who manage the map, use bar code ID's to ghost themselves and impersonate other players all whilst accepting huge amounts of gold to ensure that win to the highest bidder. This has been a thing for awhile now and has escalated in the last two months since February 2026 where this type of bad behavior is blatant and brazen that everyone knows but no one has the courage to address it, unfortunately it is an accepted rot to the system because ZOS see this type of thing as a grey area. I am all for the new system of Vengeance and gaining rewards and passives to enhance your skills and builds within Vengeance Campaign. Newer players can also enjoy this mode of PVP better than being one shot by ball groups ruining gameplay in Gray Host. Eventually if Gray Host dries up this same rot will start to infiltrate Vengeance, they probably already planning a systematic business arrangement to use collusion and gate keep this map to subsequently get their pockets lined with further massive gold/token payments. I have already brought this up in a previous forum post [Collusion & Match Fixing & Potential Real Money/Gold Trading on Playstation NA Gray Host campaign] I have also reached out to ZOS devs. If anything after playing ESO since 2015 and always being aware of the health of the game in PVE and PVP it is a physical pain to see the slow degradation of Gray Host PS5 NA. It is my best wish to see ESO get better, it's such a beautiful game and I have so many memories (good & bad) I'm one of the small people out there who wholeheartedly just want to see things improve. I, even after so many doubts in my mind still have faith in the developers to do the right thing and see and root out the real rot and clean up to make it better for those legitimate people out there.

MoonlightShadow wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I have now had a chance to look on the PTS to see the PVP Veterancy rewards. The first 33 Veterancy rewards are heavily Vengeance focused with each level of Veterancy unlocking at least one Vengeance perk. Veterancy levels 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, 25, 29, and 33 unlock three Vengeance perks.

Of the first 1/3 of Veterancy, 100% of the rewards have some form of Vengeance boost, and 27% of the Veterancy rewards are exclusively Vengeance boosts. Of the total 100 levels of Veterancy, 9% are Vengeance boosts only. It is not hard to see why people think Veterancy is specifically related to Vengeance since it unlocks all the Vengeance boosts.


So as it stands you gain ranks in Veterancy by playing in Battlegrounds, IC and Cyrodiil in order to unlock better customization options in Vengeance and few crafting and PVP related rewards. Then after Veterancy rank 33, you get generic crafting and PVP related rewards.

Don't worry. Everyone will lose all those earned perks when the next season rolls around. ¯\(°_o)/¯ And those of us who play toons over level 33, as nearly all 18 of mine are, get essentially nothing. Once again ZOS has totally blown off their veteran player base.

I admit I might not be understanding how veterancy works exactly, but this is my current understanding. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

LadyGP wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

thesarahandcompany wrote: »

When they are like:

• Ballgroups are too sweaty and competitive and ruin Greyhost
• We are going to vengence
• Vengence is also where the skilled players will be
• But also Ballgroups are the competitive ones ruining it for casuals
• That's why we are going to go to Vengence and then ballgroups can just be alone in Greyhost
• But only skilled players will be in Vengence!

I love how the enemy is both strong and weak at the same time

Ehh..last vengeance test most if not all "skilled" players didn't even bother playing it, they just came here and complained instead, lol. So I'm kinda confused where your points are coming from? I can't speak for everyone but based on the comments here and what I saw in ZC on my server, most ball groups didn't even bother with that test, lol

Not true.

Virtually every "skilled player" (note: instead of saying skileld player you should say along the lines of regular/dedicated pvper that is more accurate) I know tried the first veng test - including ball groups. Sure, not as many did the second test and even less the third.

Ball groups, or optimized groups in general, are going to go where the player base is. If you think these groups wouldn't go to veng, if that is where everyone migrated, and have the same dominating impact there... you're mistaken.

There is a small - but VERY LOUD - subset of players that are antiballgroup & pro veng tests.

I'm just a little confused about your post here still. I played the first Vengeance test until Zos took it down, I don't remember seeing any of the known ball group/comped group players running around anywhere to be honest. They may have tried it once and realized they couldn't steamroll players like they do in GH but they definitely didn't go to the Vengeance test server and stay there from what I saw, and that was (at the time) where majority of the player base was, lol. Even if you read other responses across the forums on this topic, it's pretty clear that those same ball/comped groups most likely won't go to Vengeance if it becomes it's own separate campaign. Hell, this was even discussed on my servers ZC