U50 Feedback Thread for New Item Sets
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ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArctosCethlenn wrote: »The change to Soulcleaver is very welcome and well placed. Putting some generic power on this hyperspecialized set was a good call, and I think I like it even better than the original concept now. It will have reasonable uptimes/counterplay and synergizes well with its skill line. Very happy to see this change and I hope it survives the PTS.
You certainly put the power in a nice niche and I am happy there is a silver lining for NB, as the class masteries are really not interesting for me at this point.
As a soucleaver nb for my primary build in pvp, I'm pretty good with the change. lose a bit of healing and efficiency on the set but not enough to really hurt, esp with the new masteries to counterbalance that lost healing; meanwhile +12% to everything and 15% to siphoning (so 27 total for siphoning damage skills) leaves the set stronger for dds by a mile.
is still underperforming compared to other damage-oriented class sets imo.
First of all, it works over a very mediocre skill line. Outside siphoning attacks the rest is rarely used, and then in top of that it has a negative effect with the ulti drain, just like siphoning has a negative effect by costing health. Why every other class get pure benefits and better sets over better skillines, and we get something mid, over a mediocre skill-line with a negative effect that drains your ultimate on top of it? it doesn't make any sense.
Just remove the ultimate draining mechanic from soulcleaver, at least until the class re-work makes the siphoning skill line better (the cost reduction part of the set is irrelevant because all the expensive and useful skills of nightblade are on the other skill lines). There is no reason for it to have a negative effect just becase of some lore-themed idea they got when the set was first introduced.
Come on, a unnamed major berserk on demand with 100 % uptime is enough. Having to dip into a skill line with lower offensive potential is the very least I'd expect as a trade off. Not everything needs to be mindlessly broken. And don't talk down on that sustain too much, not all classes have free sustain...yet....
we are talking about set value, and the set is bad. What does incap has anything to do with it? Specially if you consider that when using soulclever you won't be using incap, at least on pvp, you should be using soul tether as ultimate, that's the whole point of the set because funnel health as spamable is gargabe. Making an argument for soulcleaver to be bad because incap is too god makes me wonder if you even read the tooltip of the set.
About "infinite sustain", i think you havent tried PTS where classes are getting infinite sustain WITH PASSIVE, or live for that matter, heart of flame is way superior to siphoning. Arguing that soulclever should be bad because nightblade is too god is absurd, nighthblade pure class is bottom of the barrel in pretty much every content.
Tell me why anyone should use soulclever instead of any other set? Soulclever is not even close to be broken, is garbage.
Who said anything about incap?
And that last line was clearly referring to the sustain buffs in U49 and U50 PTS. On live I still save an average 500 mag on each Siphoning ability cast, which is a good deal.
I also didn't claim it is broken, I said the change is good and there is no reason to become greedy and ask for more.
You got like 0 of the things that I said right.
Make a better effort man.
You are not even addressing the set itself, and i'm the one that needs to make a better effort? Explain me how the set being bad is good or balance the class in any shape or form? IF the class mastery are OP (Iike most of them are), making soulclever useless doesn't change anything, we just run a different set and done.
At least make the effort to address THE SET, seems that you are just complaining about the class, even when the class is not even close to dk/sorc in the PTS, but again, you have a thread for class discussion, this is SET DISCUSSION.That is also keeping in mind that, however weak Siphoning is right now, the set re-design could already be considering some NB rework concepts.
And that's why i said "while we wait for the class rework, remove the ultimate drain". You could try reading next time, it usually helps with discussionsEdited by ManDraKE on 16 April 2026 18:140 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArctosCethlenn wrote: »The change to Soulcleaver is very welcome and well placed. Putting some generic power on this hyperspecialized set was a good call, and I think I like it even better than the original concept now. It will have reasonable uptimes/counterplay and synergizes well with its skill line. Very happy to see this change and I hope it survives the PTS.
You certainly put the power in a nice niche and I am happy there is a silver lining for NB, as the class masteries are really not interesting for me at this point.
As a soucleaver nb for my primary build in pvp, I'm pretty good with the change. lose a bit of healing and efficiency on the set but not enough to really hurt, esp with the new masteries to counterbalance that lost healing; meanwhile +12% to everything and 15% to siphoning (so 27 total for siphoning damage skills) leaves the set stronger for dds by a mile.
is still underperforming compared to other damage-oriented class sets imo.
First of all, it works over a very mediocre skill line. Outside siphoning attacks the rest is rarely used, and then in top of that it has a negative effect with the ulti drain, just like siphoning has a negative effect by costing health. Why every other class get pure benefits and better sets over better skillines, and we get something mid, over a mediocre skill-line with a negative effect that drains your ultimate on top of it? it doesn't make any sense.
Just remove the ultimate draining mechanic from soulcleaver, at least until the class re-work makes the siphoning skill line better (the cost reduction part of the set is irrelevant because all the expensive and useful skills of nightblade are on the other skill lines). There is no reason for it to have a negative effect just becase of some lore-themed idea they got when the set was first introduced.
Come on, a unnamed major berserk on demand with 100 % uptime is enough. Having to dip into a skill line with lower offensive potential is the very least I'd expect as a trade off. Not everything needs to be mindlessly broken. And don't talk down on that sustain too much, not all classes have free sustain...yet....
we are talking about set value, and the set is bad. What does incap has anything to do with it? Specially if you consider that when using soulclever you won't be using incap, at least on pvp, you should be using soul tether as ultimate, that's the whole point of the set because funnel health as spamable is gargabe. Making an argument for soulcleaver to be bad because incap is too god makes me wonder if you even read the tooltip of the set.
About "infinite sustain", i think you havent tried PTS where classes are getting infinite sustain WITH PASSIVE, or live for that matter, heart of flame is way superior to siphoning. Arguing that soulclever should be bad because nightblade is too god is absurd, nighthblade pure class is bottom of the barrel in pretty much every content.
Tell me why anyone should use soulclever instead of any other set? Soulclever is not even close to be broken, is garbage.
Who said anything about incap?
And that last line was clearly referring to the sustain buffs in U49 and U50 PTS. On live I still save an average 500 mag on each Siphoning ability cast, which is a good deal.
I also didn't claim it is broken, I said the change is good and there is no reason to become greedy and ask for more.
You got like 0 of the things that I said right.
Make a better effort man.
You are not even addressing the set itself, and i'm the one that needs to make a better effort? Explain me how the set being bad is good or balance the class in any shape or form? IF the class mastery are OP (Iike most of them are), making soulclever useless doesn't change anything, we just run a different set and done.
At least make the effort to address THE SET, seems that you are just complaining about the class, even when the class is not even close to dk/sorc in the PTS, but again, you have a thread for class discussion, this is SET DISCUSSION.That is also keeping in mind that, however weak Siphoning is right now, the set re-design could already be considering some NB rework concepts.
And that's why i said "while we wait for the class rework, remove the ultimate drain". You could try reading next time, it usually helps with discussions
Are you trolling me at this point?
My first post in this thread said, that I find it good that some of the Siphoning-specific power has been taken away to make room for the general purpose 12% damage buff. This makes it much more well rounded, because part of its problem was how poorly some Siphoning abilities scaled and that it didn't make sense rotation wise in many cases to cycle them so densely. That was a problem I had voiced since its original version got nerfed from its Ult-holding design on PTS.
In terms of DPS, heal and sustain that change makes this set actually competitive with sets like Essence Thief and puts it in an overall good spot. I didn't think I need to spell everything out, because for me this is clear as day. And for the devs - for whom this feedback is intended - that would have been probably sufficient, too.
How much more do you need me to say about the set? There is simply no need to be greedy, when this set has already been elevated from situational lower B-tier to upper A-tier. The only thing that actually stops it from being S-tier with these current modifiers is the fact that Siphoning is currently a tradeoff. If NB had received stronger class masteries this would likely be valued even higher.
It also is still quite balanced in PvP due to the %-health requirement, which for once is actually good design.
I am happy about this change and I would just like it to be in a spot were it can actually remain without upsetting the wider community, because Siphoning is my favourite Skill line.
Edit: And I don't think sets are supposed to receive pre-rework balance adjustments if they are not intended to remain compatible with the final rework. If the set needs a buff (as it did), buff it (as they did). But don't overbuff it for 9 months and then nerf it back. That is just needless work. This version is good.
Edited by Vaqual on 16 April 2026 23:151 -
decairn✭✭Robes of Transmutation:
There is so much overhealing in PVP changing to a Heal% boost is unnecessary. The existing 2 lines of magicka recovery are far more important. Leave this set alone, it is in a sweet spot as is. If you change anything about it add a trigger on overheal as well because with heal only a person needs to be missing health to proc it.2 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArctosCethlenn wrote: »The change to Soulcleaver is very welcome and well placed. Putting some generic power on this hyperspecialized set was a good call, and I think I like it even better than the original concept now. It will have reasonable uptimes/counterplay and synergizes well with its skill line. Very happy to see this change and I hope it survives the PTS.
You certainly put the power in a nice niche and I am happy there is a silver lining for NB, as the class masteries are really not interesting for me at this point.
As a soucleaver nb for my primary build in pvp, I'm pretty good with the change. lose a bit of healing and efficiency on the set but not enough to really hurt, esp with the new masteries to counterbalance that lost healing; meanwhile +12% to everything and 15% to siphoning (so 27 total for siphoning damage skills) leaves the set stronger for dds by a mile.
is still underperforming compared to other damage-oriented class sets imo.
First of all, it works over a very mediocre skill line. Outside siphoning attacks the rest is rarely used, and then in top of that it has a negative effect with the ulti drain, just like siphoning has a negative effect by costing health. Why every other class get pure benefits and better sets over better skillines, and we get something mid, over a mediocre skill-line with a negative effect that drains your ultimate on top of it? it doesn't make any sense.
Just remove the ultimate draining mechanic from soulcleaver, at least until the class re-work makes the siphoning skill line better (the cost reduction part of the set is irrelevant because all the expensive and useful skills of nightblade are on the other skill lines). There is no reason for it to have a negative effect just becase of some lore-themed idea they got when the set was first introduced.
Come on, a unnamed major berserk on demand with 100 % uptime is enough. Having to dip into a skill line with lower offensive potential is the very least I'd expect as a trade off. Not everything needs to be mindlessly broken. And don't talk down on that sustain too much, not all classes have free sustain...yet....
we are talking about set value, and the set is bad. What does incap has anything to do with it? Specially if you consider that when using soulclever you won't be using incap, at least on pvp, you should be using soul tether as ultimate, that's the whole point of the set because funnel health as spamable is gargabe. Making an argument for soulcleaver to be bad because incap is too god makes me wonder if you even read the tooltip of the set.
About "infinite sustain", i think you havent tried PTS where classes are getting infinite sustain WITH PASSIVE, or live for that matter, heart of flame is way superior to siphoning. Arguing that soulclever should be bad because nightblade is too god is absurd, nighthblade pure class is bottom of the barrel in pretty much every content.
Tell me why anyone should use soulclever instead of any other set? Soulclever is not even close to be broken, is garbage.
Who said anything about incap?
And that last line was clearly referring to the sustain buffs in U49 and U50 PTS. On live I still save an average 500 mag on each Siphoning ability cast, which is a good deal.
I also didn't claim it is broken, I said the change is good and there is no reason to become greedy and ask for more.
You got like 0 of the things that I said right.
Make a better effort man.
You are not even addressing the set itself, and i'm the one that needs to make a better effort? Explain me how the set being bad is good or balance the class in any shape or form? IF the class mastery are OP (Iike most of them are), making soulclever useless doesn't change anything, we just run a different set and done.
At least make the effort to address THE SET, seems that you are just complaining about the class, even when the class is not even close to dk/sorc in the PTS, but again, you have a thread for class discussion, this is SET DISCUSSION.That is also keeping in mind that, however weak Siphoning is right now, the set re-design could already be considering some NB rework concepts.
And that's why i said "while we wait for the class rework, remove the ultimate drain". You could try reading next time, it usually helps with discussions
Are you trolling me at this point?
My first post in this thread said, that I find it good that some of the Siphoning-specific power has been taken away to make room for the general purpose 12% damage buff. This makes it much more well rounded, because part of its problem was how poorly some Siphoning abilities scaled and that it didn't make sense rotation wise in many cases to cycle them so densely. That was a problem I had voiced since its original version got nerfed from its Ult-holding design on PTS.
In terms of DPS, heal and sustain that change makes this set actually competitive with sets like Essence Thief and puts it in an overall good spot. I didn't think I need to spell everything out, because for me this is clear as day. And for the devs - for whom this feedback is intended - that would have been probably sufficient, too.
How much more do you need me to say about the set? There is simply no need to be greedy, when this set has already been elevated from situational lower B-tier to upper A-tier. The only thing that actually stops it from being S-tier with these current modifiers is the fact that Siphoning is currently a tradeoff. If NB had received stronger class masteries this would likely be valued even higher.
It also is still quite balanced in PvP due to the %-health requirement, which for once is actually good design.
I am happy about this change and I would just like it to be in a spot were it can actually remain without upsetting the wider community, because Siphoning is my favourite Skill line.
Edit: And I don't think sets are supposed to receive pre-rework balance adjustments if they are not intended to remain compatible with the final rework. If the set needs a buff (as it did), buff it (as they did). But don't overbuff it for 9 months and then nerf it back. That is just needless work. This version is good.
Is not a well rounded set, just take Aerie Cry for example how it was changed, the damage increase is 10%, it doesn't need max health scaling and it doesn't have ultimate drain and buff ANIMAL COMPANION, the main DPS skillline of the class. Soulclever even after this change is mediocre at best, and it cleary worse compared to how other class sets. And no, is not competive with Essence Thief at all, you are delutional, ET is a backbar set that buff all your damage and gives you tons of sustain, soulclever is a double-bar set that gives you no sustain (Because the only siphoning ability actually being used is siphoning skills and cost health) and buff your damage but in exchange of having to push max health and draining ultimate.At this point i can't tell if you are just dumb or troll tbh.
How much more i need you to say? dude is your 4th comment and is the first comment where you actually address the set directly, your whole argument was "no need to make nighblade OP".Edited by ManDraKE on 17 April 2026 14:470 -
Gh0stDaddySoul ShrivenI agree with Kalamon: Class sets should be on par with the strongest sets in the game for both pve and pvp. It takes a lot of time and energy to farm these sets and for what? Currently, most of them are underperforming.
Buffing them with the addition of class masteries is a great move.
Also, we need our third class set. But I hope that it will not be the final class set. I really enjoy doing Infinite Archive but I've stopped doing it because I have everything out of there. Please continue to look at adding other class sets and giving players a reason to do Infinite Archive and play your game.
Thank you for your consideration.2 -
Gh0stDaddySoul Shriven"Farstrider:
3 pieces: Critical Resistance, rather than Max Stamina."
Great changes for the most part. I think that is set still needs a buff. Love the design. But it is just not strong enough to compete with other sets.
Thank you for your consideration.0 -
Gh0stDaddySoul Shriven"Rallying Cry
3 pieces: Critical Resistance, rather than Max Magicka.
4 pieces: Weapon and Spell Damage, rather than Critical Chance.
5 pieces: Critical Resistance now begins at 986 and loses 50 per target affected, rather than starting at 1650 and losing 83 per target affected."
This set has been meta since day one, and has only gained in potency with the introduction of the Monomyth mythic and the crit meta that we are in. This set is desperately in need of a sizable nerf and/or rework, which this is not.
Rallying Cry is a by design a support set, that has been, and is being abused, largely for solo or small scale use in pvp.
I can't think of another set that has proc conditions like Rallying Cry. In theory Rallying Cry is a great design. In application is not, as it allows one or a few players to get all the benefits of a set that was designed for many more people. If you are benefiting from this set alone you are getting the equivalent of around 12.5 impen pieces of armor, yes almost double what anyone can wear on their body, not including the 300 weapon and spell damage, i.e. the equivalent of a 5 piece bonus such as Hunding Rage, Law of Julianos or Ancient Dragonguard, that you get in addition to that. That's just broken.
Furthermore, this set is bug exploitive. In my testing there is around a 50/50 chance or less that someone else will receive any benefits from this set. Meaning that the majority of the time the person wearing this set will be the only one receiving all of the benefits. This set can also be gamed to receive it's overpowered benefits which other sets largely cannot.
Also, this set should not stack but in situations I believe that it does.
I think that might be able to solve this problem by reverse engineering it. If it's really a support set then have the person that is wearing it get a fixed amount of crit resist and weapon and spell damage and share with others whatever is above that cap. Not the way that it currently is designed.
Bottom line this set is extremely unhealthy for the game. If you're not using Rallying Cry you are at huge disadvantage, in most cases. A cursory search of pvp builds will show that the majority of them recommended using Rallying Cry. We've seen, such as with the introduction of subclassing, how being forced to play in a certain way or suffer the consequences is detrimental to the game. You should not be forced to use, or rather abuse Rallying Cry, just because it's super overpowered and has been for years. For the health of the game it's high time for Rallying Cry to be nerfed and/or reworked.
Thank you for your consideration.1 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArctosCethlenn wrote: »The change to Soulcleaver is very welcome and well placed. Putting some generic power on this hyperspecialized set was a good call, and I think I like it even better than the original concept now. It will have reasonable uptimes/counterplay and synergizes well with its skill line. Very happy to see this change and I hope it survives the PTS.
You certainly put the power in a nice niche and I am happy there is a silver lining for NB, as the class masteries are really not interesting for me at this point.
As a soucleaver nb for my primary build in pvp, I'm pretty good with the change. lose a bit of healing and efficiency on the set but not enough to really hurt, esp with the new masteries to counterbalance that lost healing; meanwhile +12% to everything and 15% to siphoning (so 27 total for siphoning damage skills) leaves the set stronger for dds by a mile.
is still underperforming compared to other damage-oriented class sets imo.
First of all, it works over a very mediocre skill line. Outside siphoning attacks the rest is rarely used, and then in top of that it has a negative effect with the ulti drain, just like siphoning has a negative effect by costing health. Why every other class get pure benefits and better sets over better skillines, and we get something mid, over a mediocre skill-line with a negative effect that drains your ultimate on top of it? it doesn't make any sense.
Just remove the ultimate draining mechanic from soulcleaver, at least until the class re-work makes the siphoning skill line better (the cost reduction part of the set is irrelevant because all the expensive and useful skills of nightblade are on the other skill lines). There is no reason for it to have a negative effect just becase of some lore-themed idea they got when the set was first introduced.
Come on, a unnamed major berserk on demand with 100 % uptime is enough. Having to dip into a skill line with lower offensive potential is the very least I'd expect as a trade off. Not everything needs to be mindlessly broken. And don't talk down on that sustain too much, not all classes have free sustain...yet....
we are talking about set value, and the set is bad. What does incap has anything to do with it? Specially if you consider that when using soulclever you won't be using incap, at least on pvp, you should be using soul tether as ultimate, that's the whole point of the set because funnel health as spamable is gargabe. Making an argument for soulcleaver to be bad because incap is too god makes me wonder if you even read the tooltip of the set.
About "infinite sustain", i think you havent tried PTS where classes are getting infinite sustain WITH PASSIVE, or live for that matter, heart of flame is way superior to siphoning. Arguing that soulclever should be bad because nightblade is too god is absurd, nighthblade pure class is bottom of the barrel in pretty much every content.
Tell me why anyone should use soulclever instead of any other set? Soulclever is not even close to be broken, is garbage.
Who said anything about incap?
And that last line was clearly referring to the sustain buffs in U49 and U50 PTS. On live I still save an average 500 mag on each Siphoning ability cast, which is a good deal.
I also didn't claim it is broken, I said the change is good and there is no reason to become greedy and ask for more.
You got like 0 of the things that I said right.
Make a better effort man.
You are not even addressing the set itself, and i'm the one that needs to make a better effort? Explain me how the set being bad is good or balance the class in any shape or form? IF the class mastery are OP (Iike most of them are), making soulclever useless doesn't change anything, we just run a different set and done.
At least make the effort to address THE SET, seems that you are just complaining about the class, even when the class is not even close to dk/sorc in the PTS, but again, you have a thread for class discussion, this is SET DISCUSSION.That is also keeping in mind that, however weak Siphoning is right now, the set re-design could already be considering some NB rework concepts.
And that's why i said "while we wait for the class rework, remove the ultimate drain". You could try reading next time, it usually helps with discussions
Are you trolling me at this point?
My first post in this thread said, that I find it good that some of the Siphoning-specific power has been taken away to make room for the general purpose 12% damage buff. This makes it much more well rounded, because part of its problem was how poorly some Siphoning abilities scaled and that it didn't make sense rotation wise in many cases to cycle them so densely. That was a problem I had voiced since its original version got nerfed from its Ult-holding design on PTS.
In terms of DPS, heal and sustain that change makes this set actually competitive with sets like Essence Thief and puts it in an overall good spot. I didn't think I need to spell everything out, because for me this is clear as day. And for the devs - for whom this feedback is intended - that would have been probably sufficient, too.
How much more do you need me to say about the set? There is simply no need to be greedy, when this set has already been elevated from situational lower B-tier to upper A-tier. The only thing that actually stops it from being S-tier with these current modifiers is the fact that Siphoning is currently a tradeoff. If NB had received stronger class masteries this would likely be valued even higher.
It also is still quite balanced in PvP due to the %-health requirement, which for once is actually good design.
I am happy about this change and I would just like it to be in a spot were it can actually remain without upsetting the wider community, because Siphoning is my favourite Skill line.
Edit: And I don't think sets are supposed to receive pre-rework balance adjustments if they are not intended to remain compatible with the final rework. If the set needs a buff (as it did), buff it (as they did). But don't overbuff it for 9 months and then nerf it back. That is just needless work. This version is good.
Is not a well rounded set, just take Aerie Cry for example how it was changed, the damage increase is 10%, it doesn't need max health scaling and it doesn't have ultimate drain and buff ANIMAL COMPANION, the main DPS skillline of the class. Soulclever even after this change is mediocre at best, and it cleary worse compared to how other class sets. And no, is not competive with Essence Thief at all, you are delutional, ET is a backbar set that buff all your damage and gives you tons of sustain, soulclever is a double-bar set that gives you no sustain (Because the only siphoning ability actually being used is siphoning skills and cost health) and buff your damage but in exchange of having to push max health and draining ultimate.At this point i can't tell if you are just dumb or troll tbh.
How much more i need you to say? dude is your 4th comment and is the first comment where you actually address the set directly, your whole argument was "no need to make nighblade OP".
Isn't it % current health not max health? I only tested it above 35k. Anyway, even if you get only 10 or 9 % out of it at a given cast it is still very good. ET has its own drawbacks by potentially spawning in a inconvenient location and by being tied to a LA/HA, which for melee can lose uptime compared to some Siphoning casts without target requirement and cooldown (= easier to prebuff). If you only use a siphoning ability to proc the damage buff the ult drain will be very marginal to begin with. It isn't identical but it also isn't as horrible as you make it sound. And in principle they can even be paired.
And yes, I was serious about the part where I don't want it to become completely meta for all scenarios, because that would just be boring. I am fed up with those metas that only have 5-10 sets that are competitive, I don't need that. For my taste this iteration of the set hits a good spot, making it usable in a broader set of builds, while still offering a pronounced benefit for those that specifically build around Siphoning.
Yes Aeries cry has a similar % increase, but it has no extra benefits to specific abilities. And I prefer the way Soulcleaver is set up, because as I said, I like using Siphoning abilities and those 15 %. Just because it doesn't generate value for you in the way you use it, doesn't mean the value isn't there.
Btw that last claim is straight up not true, just scroll up on page one, post #17.
Edited by Vaqual on 17 April 2026 16:230 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArctosCethlenn wrote: »The change to Soulcleaver is very welcome and well placed. Putting some generic power on this hyperspecialized set was a good call, and I think I like it even better than the original concept now. It will have reasonable uptimes/counterplay and synergizes well with its skill line. Very happy to see this change and I hope it survives the PTS.
You certainly put the power in a nice niche and I am happy there is a silver lining for NB, as the class masteries are really not interesting for me at this point.
As a soucleaver nb for my primary build in pvp, I'm pretty good with the change. lose a bit of healing and efficiency on the set but not enough to really hurt, esp with the new masteries to counterbalance that lost healing; meanwhile +12% to everything and 15% to siphoning (so 27 total for siphoning damage skills) leaves the set stronger for dds by a mile.
is still underperforming compared to other damage-oriented class sets imo.
First of all, it works over a very mediocre skill line. Outside siphoning attacks the rest is rarely used, and then in top of that it has a negative effect with the ulti drain, just like siphoning has a negative effect by costing health. Why every other class get pure benefits and better sets over better skillines, and we get something mid, over a mediocre skill-line with a negative effect that drains your ultimate on top of it? it doesn't make any sense.
Just remove the ultimate draining mechanic from soulcleaver, at least until the class re-work makes the siphoning skill line better (the cost reduction part of the set is irrelevant because all the expensive and useful skills of nightblade are on the other skill lines). There is no reason for it to have a negative effect just becase of some lore-themed idea they got when the set was first introduced.
Come on, a unnamed major berserk on demand with 100 % uptime is enough. Having to dip into a skill line with lower offensive potential is the very least I'd expect as a trade off. Not everything needs to be mindlessly broken. And don't talk down on that sustain too much, not all classes have free sustain...yet....
we are talking about set value, and the set is bad. What does incap has anything to do with it? Specially if you consider that when using soulclever you won't be using incap, at least on pvp, you should be using soul tether as ultimate, that's the whole point of the set because funnel health as spamable is gargabe. Making an argument for soulcleaver to be bad because incap is too god makes me wonder if you even read the tooltip of the set.
About "infinite sustain", i think you havent tried PTS where classes are getting infinite sustain WITH PASSIVE, or live for that matter, heart of flame is way superior to siphoning. Arguing that soulclever should be bad because nightblade is too god is absurd, nighthblade pure class is bottom of the barrel in pretty much every content.
Tell me why anyone should use soulclever instead of any other set? Soulclever is not even close to be broken, is garbage.
Who said anything about incap?
And that last line was clearly referring to the sustain buffs in U49 and U50 PTS. On live I still save an average 500 mag on each Siphoning ability cast, which is a good deal.
I also didn't claim it is broken, I said the change is good and there is no reason to become greedy and ask for more.
You got like 0 of the things that I said right.
Make a better effort man.
You are not even addressing the set itself, and i'm the one that needs to make a better effort? Explain me how the set being bad is good or balance the class in any shape or form? IF the class mastery are OP (Iike most of them are), making soulclever useless doesn't change anything, we just run a different set and done.
At least make the effort to address THE SET, seems that you are just complaining about the class, even when the class is not even close to dk/sorc in the PTS, but again, you have a thread for class discussion, this is SET DISCUSSION.That is also keeping in mind that, however weak Siphoning is right now, the set re-design could already be considering some NB rework concepts.
And that's why i said "while we wait for the class rework, remove the ultimate drain". You could try reading next time, it usually helps with discussions
Are you trolling me at this point?
My first post in this thread said, that I find it good that some of the Siphoning-specific power has been taken away to make room for the general purpose 12% damage buff. This makes it much more well rounded, because part of its problem was how poorly some Siphoning abilities scaled and that it didn't make sense rotation wise in many cases to cycle them so densely. That was a problem I had voiced since its original version got nerfed from its Ult-holding design on PTS.
In terms of DPS, heal and sustain that change makes this set actually competitive with sets like Essence Thief and puts it in an overall good spot. I didn't think I need to spell everything out, because for me this is clear as day. And for the devs - for whom this feedback is intended - that would have been probably sufficient, too.
How much more do you need me to say about the set? There is simply no need to be greedy, when this set has already been elevated from situational lower B-tier to upper A-tier. The only thing that actually stops it from being S-tier with these current modifiers is the fact that Siphoning is currently a tradeoff. If NB had received stronger class masteries this would likely be valued even higher.
It also is still quite balanced in PvP due to the %-health requirement, which for once is actually good design.
I am happy about this change and I would just like it to be in a spot were it can actually remain without upsetting the wider community, because Siphoning is my favourite Skill line.
Edit: And I don't think sets are supposed to receive pre-rework balance adjustments if they are not intended to remain compatible with the final rework. If the set needs a buff (as it did), buff it (as they did). But don't overbuff it for 9 months and then nerf it back. That is just needless work. This version is good.
Is not a well rounded set, just take Aerie Cry for example how it was changed, the damage increase is 10%, it doesn't need max health scaling and it doesn't have ultimate drain and buff ANIMAL COMPANION, the main DPS skillline of the class. Soulclever even after this change is mediocre at best, and it cleary worse compared to how other class sets. And no, is not competive with Essence Thief at all, you are delutional, ET is a backbar set that buff all your damage and gives you tons of sustain, soulclever is a double-bar set that gives you no sustain (Because the only siphoning ability actually being used is siphoning skills and cost health) and buff your damage but in exchange of having to push max health and draining ultimate.At this point i can't tell if you are just dumb or troll tbh.
How much more i need you to say? dude is your 4th comment and is the first comment where you actually address the set directly, your whole argument was "no need to make nighblade OP".
Isn't it % current health not max health? I only tested it above 35k. Anyway, even if you get only 10 or 9 % out of it at a given cast it is still very good. ET has its own drawbacks by potentially spawning in a inconvenient location and by being tied to a LA/HA, which for melee can lose uptime compared to some Siphoning casts without target requirement and cooldown (= easier to prebuff). If you only use a siphoning ability to proc the damage buff the ult drain will be very marginal to begin with. It isn't identical but it also isn't as horrible as you make it sound. And in principle they can even be paired.
And yes, I was serious about the part where I don't want it to become completely meta for all scenarios, because that would just be boring. I am fed up with those metas that only have 5-10 sets that are competitive, I don't need that. For my taste this iteration of the set hits a good spot, making it usable in a broader set of builds, while still offering a pronounced benefit for those that specifically build around Siphoning.
Yes Aeries cry has a similar % increase, but it has no extra benefits to specific abilities. And I prefer the way Soulcleaver is set up, because as I said, I like using Siphoning abilities and those 15 %. Just because it doesn't generate value for you in the way you use it, doesn't mean the value isn't there.
Btw that last claim is straight up not true, just scroll up on page one, post #17.
Ok just went back to double check and verify in case I am stupid. Scaling fully off current health, so you just need to stay healed. That claim that you have to "push max health" is not true. Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
Ah yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool. So, no clue why you say it offers no sustain. It can't replace recoveries fully, but knocking 15 % off a cast makes a difference in sustained fights. Not saying that this is out of proportion in this case, just saying it because your claim that it doesn't help sustain is just wrong and I forgot to address that part earlier. That applies obviously only to players who actually decide to use siphoning abilities actively, which is again appropriate design for its purpose. It also reduces the health cost of both sustain morphs anyway.
Going in a circle, reaching the same conclusion again: Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.Edited by Vaqual on 17 April 2026 23:530 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
Edited by ManDraKE on 18 April 2026 05:260 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
This is completely besides the point. I merely pointed out the functionality can pretty much come close to ET, by granting an even more controlled trigger for a %-damage buff. Your response to that was that it wasn't comparable, because ET is backbar-able, but so is the new damage buff on Soulcleaver. You can double-bar or single-bar it, whichever serves the purpose of your build best. Whether as a back-bar heal-set with carry-over damage buff, or a front-bar only offense, or a double-barred body set (as mostly on live).
Reducing an average 500 mag on most casts is the numerical equivalent of 1000 mag recoveries on full GCD coverage. Of course that is more limited to build execution and lower than the average value of ET Stamina recovery under perfect uptime (!), but it has the advantage of not losing value on capped resources. The reduction on Leeching/Siphoning Strikes is quite valuable in PvP, as the health cost is unmitigated by battle spirit and you basically get double value on it there, due to halved heals. And the Ult being cheaper over multiple cycles is probably not too difficult of a concept.
The set is most likely not making good use of all features at all times for the majority of builds, but it is versatile and dedicated Siphoning builds can derive good value. As I said already 100 times, it was a good decision to take off a bit of power from the exclusive Siphoning modifier and attach this damage buff.
And I am already using the set on live. And I'd be happy to see this upgrade go through, because it is currently not nearly as valuable as this PTS version. However, if baseless accusations make you feel better, that is up to you. I am sorry that your IQ feels drained, I am not going to write what I think about that.Edited by Vaqual on 18 April 2026 06:361 -
MarTheChangerSoul ShrivenSet is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
Or, yknow, Swallow Soul instead of Funnel Health if you want to have an actual, honest discussion about it from a DPS perspective. Or, more realistically, one of the Cripple morphs, likely Crippling Grasp due to the need to refresh it before the duration is over anyway. Especially with even just the 15% Siphoning-only buff, that skill is one of the strongest non-ult DoTs out there, so weaving one in every 12 seconds to get 12% more overall damage done can surely be worthwhile. You're not even "draining" ultimate, either! Siphoning has a passive that generates 2 ultimate once every 4 seconds on using a Siphoning ability, so with the set you're still net-positive after using it. Pureclass still needs Major Brutality/Sorcery, too, and Power Extraction would hardly be the worst way to get it with the set active, especially with the little bonus of Minor Courage (even if that might be wasted in groups) and for those without or not using Scribing.
As far as actual feedback for the Devs about it, the 12-second duration is kinda awkward; it's long enough that Strife/Morphs and Healthy Offering would wear off, while short enough that you'd be over-refreshing Cripple/Morphs to maintain the buff, not to mention Drain Power/Morphs. Since that buff is only for increased damage, could be worth considering extending it to 20 seconds so it lines up with Cripple and its morphs better, unless "wasting" some of its duration is meant to be a drawback for it, which just makes it feel worse and harder to track, along with incentivizing Crippling Grasp over Debilitate to offset that loss, hindering some of the diversity it could be providing.
ON AN UNRELATED NOTE FOR THE DEVS ON OTHER SETS
The changes to Spattering Disjunction for Arcanist have been very fun to test and play around with, especially with the new Shattered Paths Signet. The Crux generation has helped break up the typical Flail-Flail patterns, and leaning into more Status Effect focus for Arcanist is a fun new identity emphasis for the class, especially in the wake of both Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet and Tide-Born Wildstalker getting effectively nerfed. Perhaps the Serpent's Disdain set could be reviewed and updated as well; it's been interesting trying it out with Disjunction and Signet as well for 100% uptime on every status, and I'm sure the idea with it's 2-4 piece bonuses was to make it open and flexible for any role, but it just feels so bad to have them.
Now would also be the perfect time to look at and rework the Runecarver's Blaze set as well. It's functionally useless for its namesake class since the Fatecarver change since Arcanist barely has any DoTs now, and it'd be nice for such a fittingly-named set to actually work for it again. Perhaps something like, dealing extra damage every few Status Effect applications or ticks. Still keeps it open and viable for others as well, especially Warden with their apparent desire for Status Effects with the new Class Mastery passive, while letting it be extra fitting for Arcanists. A good, competitive build focused around Status Effects rather than purely buffing base kit numbers with % modifiers and crits would be so refreshing, and the path there has already begun.1 -
Malprave✭✭✭✭✭The nerf to Velothi/tideborn/ansuul feels like it's going to be a big nerf to mid game players which is not exactly the direction the game should be taking. Their value previously was pretty close to where you would want them to be, not the best sets but good enough for every situation.
Edit: after some further rough testing I'm finding basically all my builds with velothi are down 10-15+% dmg with tide-born+other sets compared to the live game. The base class DK feels about 5% less dps even + class masteries with velothi. Feels like it's barely outperforming the loss you take from losing your light attack damage.
This is exactly right. At this moment on PTS Velothi isn't worth slotting in any use case a player can think of. Totally agree that this is moving the game in the wrong direction. Why do this with so many things now moving in the right direction?
Dk rework is great! Class set buffs are great! Tomes are great! Incoming content looks exciting! Class mastery passives are awesome! Why ZOS? Why shoot yourselves in the foot with these nerfs?0 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
This is completely besides the point. I merely pointed out the functionality can pretty much come close to ET, by granting an even more controlled trigger for a %-damage buff. Your response to that was that it wasn't comparable, because ET is backbar-able, but so is the new damage buff on Soulcleaver. You can double-bar or single-bar it, whichever serves the purpose of your build best. Whether as a back-bar heal-set with carry-over damage buff, or a front-bar only offense, or a double-barred body set (as mostly on live).t.
- you suggest its comparable to ET
- i explain is not because ET is backbareable, provides a strong sustain buff on top of the damage
- you reply soulclever is backbareable too
- i explain why it doesnt make sense backbar
- "thats besides the point"
/facepalm
Let it go, you can't pull two arguments that make sense or dont contradict each other.
0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
This is completely besides the point. I merely pointed out the functionality can pretty much come close to ET, by granting an even more controlled trigger for a %-damage buff. Your response to that was that it wasn't comparable, because ET is backbar-able, but so is the new damage buff on Soulcleaver. You can double-bar or single-bar it, whichever serves the purpose of your build best. Whether as a back-bar heal-set with carry-over damage buff, or a front-bar only offense, or a double-barred body set (as mostly on live).t.
- you suggest its comparable to ET
- i explain is not because ET is backbareable, provides a strong sustain buff on top of the damage
- you reply soulclever is backbareable too
- i explain why it doesnt make sense backbar
- "thats besides the point"
/facepalm
Let it go, you can't pull two arguments that make sense or dont contradict each other.
What are you talking about?
If Velothi is the only "Against Monsters" set that you are using then you are losing fractional DPS, like 3-4%. The exaggeration on this topic is crazy.
Velothi is still the obvious choice in cleave scenarios, if you use any of the Beam playstyles or if you simply do not want to weave.Edited by YandereGirlfriend on 18 April 2026 17:241 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
This is completely besides the point. I merely pointed out the functionality can pretty much come close to ET, by granting an even more controlled trigger for a %-damage buff. Your response to that was that it wasn't comparable, because ET is backbar-able, but so is the new damage buff on Soulcleaver. You can double-bar or single-bar it, whichever serves the purpose of your build best. Whether as a back-bar heal-set with carry-over damage buff, or a front-bar only offense, or a double-barred body set (as mostly on live).t.
- you suggest its comparable to ET
- i explain is not because ET is backbareable, provides a strong sustain buff on top of the damage
- you reply soulclever is backbareable too
- i explain why it doesnt make sense backbar
- "thats besides the point"
/facepalm
Let it go, you can't pull two arguments that make sense or dont contradict each other.
Nightblade's burst heal is in the siphoning skill line, so casting Healthy Offering while soul cleaver is back barred is going to do the following- Heal you for 15% more at a 15% cost reduction
- Give you Major Vitality
- Drain 1 Ultimate
- Give you X% Damage done for 12 seconds
That lets the set be back barred.
Of course the set will be more effective double barred. I double bar this set on live and it makes swallow soul deal the same amount of damage as concealed weapon which opens up the the possibility of being able to play a ranged magblade. The change to this set is a good one and I'm hoping it makes it to live because it's going to make range magblade more viable to play. Double barring this set may seem like a disadvantage because it makes you squishy, but you can use range for survivability, as well as swallow soul healing for a good amount per hit.
The build isn't 2 button proc cheese meta that you see duelers using on PTS currently, but it's definitely an effective build that does good damage and will be even more effective now with the changes. The majority of people you see in cyrodiil and BGs don't know how to react when they're getting hit by what's effectively concealed weapon at ranged along with impale to finish them when they're trying to run.
2 -
ImPoStier✭✭Why is Templar the only class with all these crazy proc conditions? Warden is you get 10% more damage and a 10k dot that you don’t need to think about, DK you light attack, necro just consume corpses, Templar you have to hit something 50 times, then you lose all your mag, and you stand in this circle, turn around, touch the ground, tap your nose, stand on 1 leg, and they are weaker in every way and way less usable in content, even lancer that’s decent on the dummy will never get used, Templar sets should be more powerful than corpsebuster if you actually want to see them get used in content, you can’t just look at the dummy numbers they need to be way more powerful, corpsebuster does 25k aoe damage it’s the best set in every situation, that’s better than both Templar sets combined3
-
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why is Templar the only class with all these crazy proc conditions? Warden is you get 10% more damage and a 10k dot that you don’t need to think about, DK you light attack, necro just consume corpses, Templar you have to hit something 50 times, then you lose all your mag, and you stand in this circle, turn around, touch the ground, tap your nose, stand on 1 leg, and they are weaker in every way and way less usable in content, even lancer that’s decent on the dummy will never get used, Templar sets should be more powerful than corpsebuster if you actually want to see them get used in content, you can’t just look at the dummy numbers they need to be way more powerful, corpsebuster does 25k aoe damage it’s the best set in every situation, that’s better than both Templar sets combined
monolith of storms has really bad proc conditions. the 1st tick and then every 5th tick of hurricane and liquid lightning. additionally proc'ing one pylon doesn't do anything, you need 2 to form a connection that can deal damage. in actual content pylons usually spawn where things are already dead and then don't do anything.
The set looks great on the dummy, but it's a lot less impressive in content.
on live it's a dead set, even though on teh dummy you can get 7k from the proc, because it's just terrible to use. Hopefully the spell damage per pylon will make up for the terrible proc conditions, otherwise it will be relegated to only static fights like the dragons in vSSEdited by Tannus15 on 20 April 2026 07:203 -
ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Monolith of Storms absolutely did not need a nerf. As others have pointed out, its trigger conditions are very strict (due to the lack of useful skills in Storm Calling), it's easy to miss, and it requires at least two Monoliths to deal damage.
Another crucial issue is its very strict limitation on multiple users: "An enemy can only take damage from this set once every 2 seconds." This alone is enough to prevent most sorceresses from using it, as only one person in the entire raid is allowed to use it.
Edited by ZhuJiuyin on 20 April 2026 08:14"是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.2 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
This is completely besides the point. I merely pointed out the functionality can pretty much come close to ET, by granting an even more controlled trigger for a %-damage buff. Your response to that was that it wasn't comparable, because ET is backbar-able, but so is the new damage buff on Soulcleaver. You can double-bar or single-bar it, whichever serves the purpose of your build best. Whether as a back-bar heal-set with carry-over damage buff, or a front-bar only offense, or a double-barred body set (as mostly on live).t.
- you suggest its comparable to ET
- i explain is not because ET is backbareable, provides a strong sustain buff on top of the damage
- you reply soulclever is backbareable too
- i explain why it doesnt make sense backbar
- "thats besides the point"
/facepalm
Let it go, you can't pull two arguments that make sense or dont contradict each other.
What are you talking about?
If Velothi is the only "Against Monsters" set that you are using then you are losing fractional DPS, like 3-4%. The exaggeration on this topic is crazy.
Velothi is still the obvious choice in cleave scenarios, if you use any of the Beam playstyles or if you simply do not want to weave.
uh? dude im talking about soulclever, nighblade class sets, no about velothi/ansull/pve stuff.
Of course the set will be more effective double barred. I double bar this set on live and it makes swallow soul deal the same amount of damage as concealed weapon which opens up the the possibility of being able to play a ranged magblade. The change to this set is a good one and I'm hoping it makes it to live because it's going to make range magblade more viable to play. Double barring this set may seem like a disadvantage because it makes you squishy, but you can use range for survivability, as well as swallow soul healing for a good amount per hit.
The build isn't 2 button proc cheese meta that you see duelers using on PTS currently, but it's definitely an effective build that does good damage and will be even more effective now with the changes. The majority of people you see in cyrodiil and BGs don't know how to react when they're getting hit by what's effectively concealed weapon at ranged along with impale to finish them when they're trying to run.
if the set is more effective double-barred, then is a double-bar set, stop arguing delutional ideas when NOBODY is going to run this as a backbar set, not you, not me, nobody. Comparing soulclever vs essensce thief was just a dumb argument from someone with 0 build crafting knowdelege.
These changes won't make soulclever a viable set, it just make it a bit less worse than live, but it puts it even more behind other class sets after the buffs they got. And no, it won't be an "effective build", it will be a mediocre build that will be outperformend by pretty much any other average build in the game, and by most of other class sets (monolith storms, aerie cry, pyrebrand, etc, etc).Edited by ManDraKE on 20 April 2026 13:360 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Set is fully backbarable, buff scales dynamically.
so you will slot funnel health and soul tether backbar? /facepalmAh yes, and while I am at it, cost reduction is a very effective sustain tool.
What cost are you going to reduce on back bar, siphoning attacks that cost health? You get ZERO sustain from this set.Set is cool now. Can stay this way. Don't do anything drastic. After 2.5 years you might now actually have found a good, fair and thematically fitting design for this set.
You are not going to use this set because there are a gazillion better sets to run, you know it, i know it. You whole goal is to make sure the set remains irrelevant.
I'm done with this dicussion, this set may drain my ultimate but you are draining my IQ with this discussion.
This is completely besides the point. I merely pointed out the functionality can pretty much come close to ET, by granting an even more controlled trigger for a %-damage buff. Your response to that was that it wasn't comparable, because ET is backbar-able, but so is the new damage buff on Soulcleaver. You can double-bar or single-bar it, whichever serves the purpose of your build best. Whether as a back-bar heal-set with carry-over damage buff, or a front-bar only offense, or a double-barred body set (as mostly on live).t.
- you suggest its comparable to ET
- i explain is not because ET is backbareable, provides a strong sustain buff on top of the damage
- you reply soulclever is backbareable too
- i explain why it doesnt make sense backbar
- "thats besides the point"
/facepalm
Let it go, you can't pull two arguments that make sense or dont contradict each other.
What are you talking about?
If Velothi is the only "Against Monsters" set that you are using then you are losing fractional DPS, like 3-4%. The exaggeration on this topic is crazy.
Velothi is still the obvious choice in cleave scenarios, if you use any of the Beam playstyles or if you simply do not want to weave.
uh? dude im talking about soulclever, nighblade class sets, no about velothi/ansull/pve stuff.
Of course the set will be more effective double barred. I double bar this set on live and it makes swallow soul deal the same amount of damage as concealed weapon which opens up the the possibility of being able to play a ranged magblade. The change to this set is a good one and I'm hoping it makes it to live because it's going to make range magblade more viable to play. Double barring this set may seem like a disadvantage because it makes you squishy, but you can use range for survivability, as well as swallow soul healing for a good amount per hit.
The build isn't 2 button proc cheese meta that you see duelers using on PTS currently, but it's definitely an effective build that does good damage and will be even more effective now with the changes. The majority of people you see in cyrodiil and BGs don't know how to react when they're getting hit by what's effectively concealed weapon at ranged along with impale to finish them when they're trying to run.
if the set is more effective double-barred, then is a double-bar set, stop arguing delutional ideas when NOBODY is going to run this as a backbar set, not you, not me, nobody. Comparing soulclever vs essensce thief was just a dumb argument from someone with 0 build crafting knowdelege.
These changes won't make soulclever a viable set, it just make it a bit less worse than live, but it puts it even more behind other class sets after the buffs they got. And no, it won't be an "effective build", it will be a mediocre build that will be outperformend by pretty much any other average build in the game, and by most of other class sets (monolith storms, aerie cry, pyrebrand, etc, etc).
Meant to quote the poster above you who was complaining about Velothi.1 -
GreglarSoul ShrivenWas it intentional to nerf Soulcleaver for healing but buff it for damage?
If not, I'd like to request that you change the new effect to 12% damage and healing.
I only use Soulcleaver on my pvp healer and as it is now it's just a straight nerf.1 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Prowler's Tailsman:
The invisibility on the item is quite nice if you aren't subclassing Shadow.
The 5% pickpocket chance is alright.
The lantern visual for stacks is somewhat unexpected for a thief related item.
In Overland Combat many of the fights were too short for it to build up to full stacks.
When using it on a poorly geared character, most of the stacks would build for the non-crit bonus which is resource recovery which isn't all that useful.
Overall, I would say the item is probably roughly balanced. You've basically got a variant of Death Dealer's Fete with some stealth bonuses.1 -
Aydh✭✭Regarding Soulcleaver
Cool change adding the +12% damage. This is a direct buff to healing via funnel health since the 15% base should be additive with the 12% to net a 27% increase to the funnel hit. very nice. have not had a chance to directly test this so hoping it works this way.
One request for a change. To be in line with the new NB class mastery, instead of losing 1 ult using this set, could we transfer 1 ult to party members IF the Share the Spoils mastery passive is active?
Perhaps with that ppl will scowl at me less running Soulcleaver on a healer build.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Would like to add a pitch for the Cyrodiil set Lamp-Knight's Art to replace its current 2- and 3-piece set bonuses of Max Stamina with something more universally valuable, such as Critical Chance, Weapon Damage or even potentially Critical Resistance.
The set is already very far from being viable but throwing it a tiny bone like this would help it be a little bit less bad.2 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭Were there any sets you felt were over or under powered compared to current offerings in the live game? Yes, not a new set but Monolith of Storms received an update for U50 and it's still under-powered.
Do you have any other general feedback? See Below
MoS did get a descent buff to damage and provides a nice increase to W/S damage .. however .. that wasn't the main issue with the set, it was the setup / proc that made it awful.
In parsing / dummy testing, sure, one can get solid numbers out of this set, especially when paired with Power Overload, however, parsing / dummy testing isn't reflective of in-game combat use.
The problem MoS has is that getting it setup to it's full potential is so clumsy and unspecific that no matter what the output values are it's unlikely anyone is going to ever realize them. The set procs from a SC ability's "initial hit" or " every 5th tick". If the player is leaning on a DoT such as Hurricane or Flood that means that those skills alone will only ever proc 2 monoliths at the target location. The player will need to combination cast another skill besides SC DoTs in order to setup all 3. Often this would mean spamming an otherwise unnecessary Mages Wrath just to get a Monolith set.
Let's assume a player was going to use Hurricane + Wrath to "setup" MoS. If Hurricane was already active upon entering combat then it won't proc a Monolith until the 5th tick OR unless the player re-casts the skill. The quickest a player could realistically setup all 3 Monoliths is 3 seconds, and that's assuming a Mages spam to set them up. .. Now, none of this is accounting for enemy movements around the play area or outside of an AoE DoT. Given that each Monolith is only up for 10 seconds this means that the player is basically employing a minor focus just to keep the set active with any real, viable uptime.
10 seconds can see the lions share of trash mobs in a Trial defeated, so in most cases MoS won't be contributing much toward total damage output by the time the enemies are gone, and the Sorc caster wouldn't have been as focused on the group coordinated DPS, rather, they'd have a passive focus on setting up MoS.
Then we get to boss fights. MoS is somewhat more effective here as at least a Boss will be up long enough to get the Monoliths up but even then, every 10 seconds the player needs to ensure a SC ability cast just to proc the next Monolith. This can be questionable with Bosses that are highly mobile or have multiple, challenging AoE mechs to manage.
Unless MoS gets adjusted for a better and smoother proc that's more synergized with Sorc, overall, I don't see this ever becoming a preferred set.
Consider that a player can equip 5 pieces of Oblivions Foe and scribe Soul Burst to instantly apply a persistent DoT for 10 seconds that scales to more damage than MoS and has no clumsy proc conditions to set it up. With Foe one can realistically apply the high scaling DoT to every opponent in the are within 2 GCD; MoS can't even be fully set in that time.
MoS represents a neat and cool visual aspect to a Sorcs power on the battel field but the actual real world setup kills it. The lack of any real, heavy intermediate damage during the setup phase only further cripples it. Unless all 3 Monoliths are proc'd the set is only dealing limited damage in 2 second ticks rather than other sets that have an easier proc and tick per second.
It's not about parse numbers with MoS it's about the mechs, and in real world combat use they're poor and what's worse is they don't even synergize well with the new passives. Static Reverberation has a max potential stack rate of every 0.2s yet MoS only deals damage every 2 seconds, that's 10 whole missed Static Reverb opportunities between each tick of MoS.
Here is a suggestion for a change that would make MoS actually appealing & competitive:
(2 Items): Adds 657 Crit Chance
(3 Items): Adds 129 Weapon & Spell Damage
(4 Items): Adds 129 Weapon & Spell Damage
(5 Items): Dealing Shock damage creates a Monolith near the target for 10 seconds, up to 3 in total. Your Monoliths within 28m of each other link together to deal XX Shock damage, scaling off of the higher of your Weapon or Spell damage, every 1 second to enemies near the links (5m), up to once every 1 second per enemy.
Minor Hindrance is applied to enemies affected by your Monoliths for 3 seconds, reducing their movement speed by 40%. This affect can occur once every 30 seconds.
Each Monolith grants you 200 Weapon & Spell Damage.
In this scenario the set will proc off of ANY "Shock" damage. This gives the caster more flexibility and options as to how they want to proc the set, depending on the combat scenario they might face. For example, a caster could use a scribe of Soul Burst to proc all 3 of the Monoliths in one concentrated area, all at once, if they so chose, BUT, the caster would be unable to spawn a new Monolith until those 3 timed out so it's a conscious decision to make. If the player wanted to use a Force Shock or other single target Sock damage method to proc the Monoliths individually in a wider area they could choose to do that as well; but they wouldn't be locked into Storm Calling skills only.
The caster would also have to be attentive to pets as their Shock damage could proc a Monolith so this also creates an additional skill management factor for the Sorc if they're choosing to run pets, which I think is fair.
This approach is similar to DK's Pyrebrand which can proc off heavy attacks rather an being confined to a skill from a specific skill line, opening up flexibility and reducing the time cost of the setup.
The reduction in damage application to every 1 second, down from 2 seconds works to better synergize the set with the new Class Mastery passives and would now see DPS values that actually apply to targets much more similar to other Class sets and even what can be had from over-world sets.
Lastly, the set would apply a named debuff to enemies. This debuff is FAR less than movement debuffs that other class skills apply and I chose to use a named debuff so that the effect can potentially be cleansed by other players for balance purposes.
Sorc Class Mastery passives didn't deliver on buffs or debuffs and Sorc class skills really only offer few of them anyway. This would see MoS as a Class set deliver on a applicable debuff that's relevant in both PvE and PvP.
This is much more simple and straight forward and delivers on power that's in-line with other class sets, without clunky setup mechanics that see this set getting overlooked.Edited by NxJoeyD on 22 April 2026 21:513 -
aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭I can’t find what changed with monolyth of storms - can someone please show me or tell me.0
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Yudo✭✭✭✭✭I can’t find what changed with monolyth of storms - can someone please show me or tell me.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691059/pts-patch-notes-v12-0-0#latest0 -
Kickimanjaro✭✭✭
Spattering Disjunction: This set now also increases damage done with status effects by 40% while worn and generates a Crux when the set activates.
I like this a lot, thank you for adding a status damage line to this set! Status damage is fun!
One consideration: why does it have to be a Herald of the Tome ability that reduces the cooldown on this set? Surely, beam will be one of the best ways to get the most out of the random status application portion, but there are a few other damaging abilities from other lines that could be nice to reduce this as well (which don't apply damage as fast as beam, so I don't think the real effect would be much different if all Arcanist damage abilities reduced the cooldown), unless the intent is to focus people into Herald of the Tome instead of just base Arcanist, kind of unclear on the intent of these class sets (whether intended for base class, pure class, or just one line from a class) but I appreciate them regardless.
Disclaimer: I like this particularly because it feels like I can combine it with the new mythic ring to get a discount Focused Efforts in overland content, which I absolutely adore.Edited by Kickimanjaro on 23 April 2026 15:500 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Currently, Aerie's Cry is limited to 1x instance of the set debuff per target.
Which is... not ideal... to say the least... in situations where more than one player is using the set.
I would imagine that this limitation is in-place to prevent multiple users of the set from targeting the same player in PvP. But for PvE, that is not of particular concern.
My suggestion would be to use Battle Spirit to enable the 1x per target cap for PvP environments but otherwise to allow the set to stack from multiple wearers on the same target.2