Not to mention the daedric summoning set punishes you for daedric summoning. If there is ANY set that should have boosted pet sorcs it is the daedric summoning set. The lightning set should be the no-pet sorc set. Completely unfair that not only did pet sorcs not get a set but that the class set that is specifically for their skill line punishes you for using that skill line. Is there any other class set that punishes you using the skill line it's meant to boost?

To be fair, this could be a set up for the eventual sorc rework.

Me personally I dont mind that non pets will be viable but I get it. Folk love their pets.

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Sorc pets aren't even that good anymore, at least with subclassing; this "pets are strong" narrative from ZOS feels a little late to the party

Idk about that. A lot of subclass builds still use pet.

Maybe that is a hint that stronger pets are coming. Would make sense with Warden and Sorc reworks coming up.

I'm totally against the random red tape they're adding against permanent pets, even though I don't like being forced to use them, I certainly don't want to be punished for using them either.

However, my other perspective is this.. Warden and Sorc are the only classes with permanent pets and they just so happen to be the next classes being refreshed. Permanent pets have been a large point of contention since the game launched and has only increased each year as more roadblocks get added like Beacon of Oblivion, Daedric Summoning passives, Daedric Prey being changed for subclassing to only work on Daedric pets, the Sorc Signature Script, and now this between Signet and the Implosion Mastery.

Both classes also have a history of performing better for DPS via their permanent pet option over their non pet alternatives, so in this sense, it makes sense to have Signet and Implosion work best for non pet users because they have a bigger pure class gap to fill. From tests I've seen so far, Warden still performs better with Signet + Bear than Signet + Uber Buffed Northern Storm, so in this sense for Warden, the nerf was justified.

Although, I think Signet should be reworked entirely because not casting your ultimate is dumb af, but thats a separate discussion.

It stands to reason ZOS will be looking to address feedback regarding these issues or they're effectively burying their heads in the sand and missing a major opportunity for improvement. I highly doubt given their track record this year that this is the case, so I fully expect this to be a non issue come U51 and/or U52. This feels more like a bandaid to me.

My main gripe as a bandaid is they went about it all wrong.

1. They could of just allowed pet Warden/Sorc to overperform for 1~2 patches given the transitional period we're in, but I understand the scope of the situation is not just regulated to within their kits, but vsing other classes, so the solution they came up with might seem more reasonable for the time being.
2. They could of chosen to buff non pet users instead of nerfing pet users, this effectively has the same outcome, but appears as less of a punishment from the users point of view.
3. The nerf calculation they're using is too drastic especially since not all of the permanent pets are created equal. Bear > Familiar > Tormentor. Starting at 1/2 power, then 1/3, to finally 1/4 is just ridiculously punishing for no reason. It could also be simplified to something like -10% damage per pet or -20% for having at least 1 permanent pet.
4. Bear requires 2 ult slots, so it should be the strongest, which is why Signet is still competitive for Warden, but Tormentor doesn't have a useful activation and does not have improved status effect application like Bear or Familiar, so it doesn't even really benefit from Signet and it's not outputting double ticks of damage for Implosion to work off of.
5. God forbid you subclass and combine all 3 permanent pets, now you have 1/4 the benefit on Signet which is laughable because a ZOO build is already reserved to role play material, it's that bad.

I don't know what a temporary solution would be if there is one, but it could definitely be reduced and simplified in the time being, I just hope this doesn't continue beyond Warden and Sorc refresh.

Tannus15 wrote: »

If the intention is to make no pet versions stronger to try and balance the loss of power, cool. Do that, whatever.
But the issue is the way it's been implemented the pet version is SO BAD that no one should ever use it.

Beacon of Oblivion - PET

2 items: Adds 34-1487 Armor
3 items: Adds 3-129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 items: Adds 28-1206 Maximum Health
5 items: Add 1840 Health and 1980 Armor.

Beacon of Oblivion - NO PET

2 items: Adds 34-1487 Armor
3 items: Adds 3-129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 items: Adds 28-1206 Maximum Health
5 items: While you have a permanent pet active, gain 1840 Health and 1980 Armor. While you do not have a permanent pet active, increase your Damage Done and Healing Done by 15%. This value is reduced to 7% while affected by Battle Spirit.

If you look at the set as two different sets, the pet set is GARBAGE. Like, what is anyone meant to do with that set?

Scribing - PET

Enchant your closest pet for 5 seconds to heal a nearby ally for 487 Health each time it deals damage, up to once a second.

Scribing - NO PET

Deal 1153 Shock Damage to enemies within 8 meters of your first target

Pets attack once every 2 seconds. This means either your scamp or your bird will heal "someone" once every 2 seconds for no health. What is this meant to do? It's utterly useless in all content and context.

At least Static Reverberation does something decent with pets

Static - PET



Static - NO PET



I mean, it's twice as much damage, but at least it's something hey. Sure you've made a CLASS MASTERY on par with BURNING LIGHT but cool, at least it's something hey.

I think you're forgetting one crucial detail, this set was crafted with the fact that pet sorks are much stronger than no pet sorts in terms of damage and survivability in mind. Sure the pet bonuses aren't great but it wasn't set up this way out of pet hate

yes indeed

xylena wrote: »

The pet hate won't stop until Sorc pets are normal skills like Necro, and not targetable NPCs that take up 2 bar slots, neither of which can ever be balanced.

I'm really hoping the Sorcerer rework will give at least the option for temporary sorc pets.

I don't want pets and welcome any changes that strengthen the no-pet Sorc.

However, I don't want the pet gameplay and unique features to be removed from ESO, as summoning has always been part of the TES universe.

The current balance between pets and no-pets is too crude and could potentially incite conflict between pet/no-pet players.

I think perhaps a class mastery specifically designed to buff pets should be chosen for Sorc. I think Sphere of Influence would be the most suitable choice, as Sorc currently lacks any ability to provide shields to teammates.

Perhaps Sphere of Influence should be changed to: When you use a permanent pet's active ability, increase the damage of all your summoned creatures by 20%, with an additional 10% increase for each additional permanent pet. It also grants you and nearby teammates a shield that absorbs 30% of the target's maximum health.

Faltasë wrote: »

I don't really like the pets, but I totally agree that pet builds should be viable as that IS the point of Daedric Summoning

Back when heavy attacks were decent, I like to only run the matriarch. It really is a good little birb. I guess the atro counts as a pet too.

Put pets as a world line Conjuration and change Daedric summoning to something else on the sorc. Everyone gets their pets who wants them and the sorc isn’t handicapped by it. I wish for the day my main can run a high dps in content without them instead of beam spamming.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They already have to be double slotted. That's a massive cost in and of itself. And then you need Daedric prey to make them work. That's 5 skill slots taken up by them. Yet, they are NOT stronger than other AOE DOTS that cost significantly less than the pets.

This is why Sorcerer should have been the first class refresh IMO.

Fix this, and then they have a better basis for pets on Warden and Necromancer.

At this point zos just needs to decide if pets should even exist. And change classes to match.

My suspicion is that pets will be the "accessability" option for sorcs, probably with lightning staff heavy attack builds in mind.
maybe add empower to twilight and the activation on tormentor adds an additional heavy attack buff or something, but outside of HA builds pets will be dead

Pets body blocking is the ENTIRE point.
Look how popular Shade & Skeletal Archer are…

Oh wait.