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Werewolf transformation should be borderline OP, and here's why.
dr_zed
✭✭✭
Just think it for a moment...
Imagine, just for the sake of argument, that there is no werewolf skill line in ESO. Someone suddenly comes and tells you:
-There is going to be a new ultimate in this game. But it's not going to be a normal ultimate. For example, It's going to consume 1000 ultimate points to activate instead of the usual 100-300 points.
-Umm....?- you say -Why on earth would I preffer to use that ultimate instead of 4 or 5 other ultimates? It makes no sense!
-But it will be the best ultimate in the game! Oh, and there's more...- he says - You see how the normal ultimates cost 2 skill points to max out? This one will actually cost 16 skill points to max out...
-WHAT?? 16 SKILL POINTS?? That's absurd!!! Why would I spend 16 skill points in JUST ONE SKILL??
-As I said, it will be a very good ultimate.- he answers - Will you use it?
-Um... I don't know - you say- It will have to be extremelly OP to make it even remotely viable under those conditions...
-Oh it will be, don't worry.- he answers -Oh by the way. If you choose to get this ultimate, you will also get a couple of weakneses, that will affect you wherever you actually use it or not.
-GET THE [snip] OUT OF HERE!! THIS IS [snip]
Well... now come back to reality.
See what the problem is here?? WW tranformation is not even remotely close to what it should be. If It asks a lot, it should give a lot in return. Instead, we have this transformation that sometimes feels that is making you even weaker that how you normally are.
Sure, the damage is amazing... but that's all of it. Both skills are subpar:
Pounce is slow (the slowest gap closer in the game I'd say), has a laughable range and an insane stamina cost.
Roar is ok, but it is still worse than, let's say NB's Aspect of terror, which does basically the same thing... except it's an instant cast.
I think HUGE, and by HUGE I mean really HUGE buffs should be made to the WW to make it what it SHOULD BE. These are some ideas:
- Remove the ultimate cost entirelly. Instead, give it a, lets say, 2 minute cooldown that begins from the time you finished your last transformation (Blood Rage gets reworked).
- Make the WW inmute to all forms of CC, except for the Fighter's guild skills CC.
- Make Devour restore the whole transformation time bar, and make you invulnerable while you eat.
- Remove "cast time" on Devour and let it feed from the same corpse more than once again. Also, let it feed from ANY corpse.
- Let the WW stay transformed as long as he likes (remove transformation time bar completely). Make him start to lose HP progressively if 15 seconds pass and he does't attack someone, so he will end up dying if he stays out of combat for too long (Devour gets reworked).
- Buff both active skills. Make Pounce a lot faster, give it a stun and more damage. Make Roar an instant cast ability and increase it's radius.
- Give him 1 or 2 more active skills.
Of course, all the numbers mentioned above can be tweaked, but those are the ideas. What do you think?
Imagine, just for the sake of argument, that there is no werewolf skill line in ESO. Someone suddenly comes and tells you:
-There is going to be a new ultimate in this game. But it's not going to be a normal ultimate. For example, It's going to consume 1000 ultimate points to activate instead of the usual 100-300 points.
-Umm....?- you say -Why on earth would I preffer to use that ultimate instead of 4 or 5 other ultimates? It makes no sense!
-But it will be the best ultimate in the game! Oh, and there's more...- he says - You see how the normal ultimates cost 2 skill points to max out? This one will actually cost 16 skill points to max out...
-WHAT?? 16 SKILL POINTS?? That's absurd!!! Why would I spend 16 skill points in JUST ONE SKILL??
-As I said, it will be a very good ultimate.- he answers - Will you use it?
-Um... I don't know - you say- It will have to be extremelly OP to make it even remotely viable under those conditions...
-Oh it will be, don't worry.- he answers -Oh by the way. If you choose to get this ultimate, you will also get a couple of weakneses, that will affect you wherever you actually use it or not.
-GET THE [snip] OUT OF HERE!! THIS IS [snip]
Well... now come back to reality.
See what the problem is here?? WW tranformation is not even remotely close to what it should be. If It asks a lot, it should give a lot in return. Instead, we have this transformation that sometimes feels that is making you even weaker that how you normally are.
Sure, the damage is amazing... but that's all of it. Both skills are subpar:
Pounce is slow (the slowest gap closer in the game I'd say), has a laughable range and an insane stamina cost.
Roar is ok, but it is still worse than, let's say NB's Aspect of terror, which does basically the same thing... except it's an instant cast.
I think HUGE, and by HUGE I mean really HUGE buffs should be made to the WW to make it what it SHOULD BE. These are some ideas:
- Remove the ultimate cost entirelly. Instead, give it a, lets say, 2 minute cooldown that begins from the time you finished your last transformation (Blood Rage gets reworked).
- Make the WW inmute to all forms of CC, except for the Fighter's guild skills CC.
- Make Devour restore the whole transformation time bar, and make you invulnerable while you eat.
- Remove "cast time" on Devour and let it feed from the same corpse more than once again. Also, let it feed from ANY corpse.
- Let the WW stay transformed as long as he likes (remove transformation time bar completely). Make him start to lose HP progressively if 15 seconds pass and he does't attack someone, so he will end up dying if he stays out of combat for too long (Devour gets reworked).
- Buff both active skills. Make Pounce a lot faster, give it a stun and more damage. Make Roar an instant cast ability and increase it's radius.
- Give him 1 or 2 more active skills.
Of course, all the numbers mentioned above can be tweaked, but those are the ideas. What do you think?
1
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Still_Mind✭✭✭I definitely understand where you're coming from. I do agree that a lot of skills need to be redesigned. Cheaper, more functional active skills, more liberal transition between Werewolf and human form. The WW skill line needs more passives that work outside WW form (right now, there's only one, and it works only when WW Ulti is slotted).
As far as extra functionality of the Werewolf form is concerned, I think full CC immunity would be a bit over the top, but I do think that it needs to move a lot faster, passively, and have other, unique utility, like being able to push through unmitigatable defenses like flat damage reduction (because eff vampires, that's why).
As of now, Werewolf skill line seems to be more of an "RP" choice - one that costs an arseload of skillpoints, if you dedicate."I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!"0 -
dr_zed✭✭✭
I agree.Still_Mind wrote: »I definitely understand where you're coming from. I do agree that a lot of skills need to be redesigned. Cheaper, more functional active skills, more liberal transition between Werewolf and human form. The WW skill line needs more passives that work outside WW form (right now, there's only one, and it works only when WW Ulti is slotted).
As far as extra functionality of the Werewolf form is concerned, I think full CC immunity would be a bit over the top, but I do think that it needs to move a lot faster, passively, and have other, unique utility, like being able to push through unmitigatable defenses like flat damage reduction (because eff vampires, that's why).
As of now, Werewolf skill line seems to be more of an "RP" choice - one that costs an arseload of skillpoints, if you dedicate.
About the CC immunity, as I say, I think that for what It asks, it should be an "OP" ultimate. People should fear to se a WW in Cyrodiil, the same way they fear vampires. WW in Cyrodiil should be nearly unstoppable if not heavily outnumbered of fought back with Fighter's guild skills. That's how I see it.0 -
Still_Mind✭✭✭
One thing WW form needs is selfhealing from attacking enemies. Like *real* selfhealing. Red Diamond+Siphoning Strikes on steroids. Short CC\root immunity after pounce\roar is perfectly acceptable, as well. More target cap on roar, faster heavy attack charge, stacking attack speed in combat, more block mitigation, more passive "flat" damage mitigation.
I agree.Still_Mind wrote: »I definitely understand where you're coming from. I do agree that a lot of skills need to be redesigned. Cheaper, more functional active skills, more liberal transition between Werewolf and human form. The WW skill line needs more passives that work outside WW form (right now, there's only one, and it works only when WW Ulti is slotted).
As far as extra functionality of the Werewolf form is concerned, I think full CC immunity would be a bit over the top, but I do think that it needs to move a lot faster, passively, and have other, unique utility, like being able to push through unmitigatable defenses like flat damage reduction (because eff vampires, that's why).
As of now, Werewolf skill line seems to be more of an "RP" choice - one that costs an arseload of skillpoints, if you dedicate.
About the CC immunity, as I say, I think that for what It asks, it should be an "OP" ultimate. People should fear to se a WW in Cyrodiil, the same way they fear vampires. WW in Cyrodiil should be nearly unstoppable if not heavily outnumbered of fought back with Fighter's guild skills. That's how I see it.
As for fearing WWs as people do Vampires. I don't think fear is what comes to mind when a lot of players face vampires in Cyrodill. More like loathing. "Urgh, if he decides that he's starting to lose, he'll just Maneuver+Mistform (full CC+snare\root immunity), waste of my time incoming" feeling.
But yeah, if a Werewolf gets up close and personal, it should be expected to rip you a new one, unless you disengage from it, or turtle up.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!"1 -
Xupacabra✭✭✭Glad i found an armour set that decrease werewolf ultimate built 33% , strange that is a medium armour set but i dont feel weak leveling (rank1), used to wear heavy armour. I will use it until maximize the werewolf skilll line. or become outdated.Chupacabra with rage @ EU server AD faction Thornblade home0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nah , probably they will reduce the cost and with it , its perks also.
In the end , vampire and ww should be much strong skill tress , since they add problems to the player , ww actually got a cost ...
But like any other MMO , people will complain if anything is OP , even if it comes with its set of problems heh , mostly because people are too dumb to use those weaknesses , they want their set of skills to work on everyone , if the vampire/ww are OP against everything but their weak spots , which sould be able to take them down fast , people will complain.
So dont expect to be that strong OP , and if the ww become when it finally actually works , expect to be nerfed just like the vampires.
And while they nerf this , they allow the freaking DK the remain OP like there is no issue hehe. That 1.1 patch better be something..."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭If they make the werewolves transformation OP, then i think they should add the previous ES games penalty for WW transformation.
ALL OF YOUR WEAPONS AND ARMOUR UNEQUIP!
Muhahaha!- Veteran Combat Librarian -1 -
dr_zed✭✭✭There are videos of vampires soloing 20-30 people with their ultimate and mist form.
I couldn't even kill 1 person with WW transformation in Cyrodiil, with my VR3 character with full Savior's Hide Set... It's still extremely hard to even charge the ultimate and when you finally get it, it goes something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKem8B-3iuI 3 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Still_Mind wrote: »... As of now, Werewolf skill line seems to be more of an "RP" choice - one that costs an arseload of skillpoints, if you dedicate.
And that is why after this latest patch and the fix *cough* NERF *cough, cough* to the werewolf tree I removed all my points from it except from the ult generation passive. I won't cure my character after all I went into ESO to play a damn werewolf, so before curing the curse I will leave the game.
But I am tired of wasting 16 skill points... I can't have the werewolf transformation I really want because pack leader never worked and fixing it hasn't even been addressed by ZoS. I can't relly on Roar because sometimes the ability does nothing except consume stamina and pounce... Gods, I am so tired of pouncing something and dying because the stupid animation got stuck >.> So now my werewolf form is for biting people and for me to shift whenever I don't actually need an ultimate... Yes, I morph only to look like a werewolf, cause I sure do more damage as a sorcerer >.>0 -
WhitePawPrints✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are videos of vampires soloing 20-30 people with their ultimate and mist form.
I couldn't even kill 1 person with WW transformation in Cyrodiil, with my VR3 character with full Savior's Hide Set... It's still extremely hard to even charge the ultimate and when you finally get it, it goes something like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKem8B-3iuI
The truth of this makes me cry.
I have personally witnessed vampires soloing large groups of people like that before and it is utterly ridiculous. To win in PVP is to go vampire; Fighter Guild Skill tree is the only counter to it but is worse than Goliath vs David. Werewolf... you'd be incredibly lucky to win 1v1 against any player; and that is only if they don't run away or CC you. And you wasted an Ultimate to maybe kill one player.0 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭There are videos of vampires soloing 20-30 people with their ultimate and mist form.
I couldn't even kill 1 person with WW transformation in Cyrodiil, with my VR3 character with full Savior's Hide Set... It's still extremely hard to even charge the ultimate and when you finally get it, it goes something like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKem8B-3iuI
HAHA1 Love the trombone!
AH sadly very accurate.
- Veteran Combat Librarian -0 -
Still_Mind✭✭✭
Totally feel for you, brah.There are videos of vampires soloing 20-30 people with their ultimate and mist form.
I couldn't even kill 1 person with WW transformation in Cyrodiil, with my VR3 character with full Savior's Hide Set... It's still extremely hard to even charge the ultimate and when you finally get it, it goes something like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKem8B-3iuI"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!"0 -
JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Werewolf should be permanent. You can't self heal or resurrect other players.
Also you spend 16 skill points in it and can be CCd since you can't CC break0