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The writing for the upcoming story content - some thoughts on the latest news article
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metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I started playing the game after One Tamriel and the dynamic leveling, so I never experienced the zones having their own levels of crafting materials. But I have played/do play games where there are distinct levels for areas, and that includes the crafting materials, and there are pros and cons for both systems.
Indeed. I've been around back when the level of crafting materials was bound to a specific zone. It was a little impractical when my first character's crafting level was already higher than the zone he was questing in, as that meant a certain shortage of material. But then again, if one played several characters and one had already played through one faction completely, it wasn't a problem anymore, as that character could do the collecting for all other characters. Or more precisely you could collect materials of all levels (regardless of whether you had a character on that specific crafting level at that moment or not) just through one character, by just visiting the corresponding zones - and I often did so along the way when my main was going for achievements or collecting treasures from treasure maps and similar.
Since the update, if you don't have a character on a specific crafting level, there's no way to collect materials of that level anymore, which is also not ideal (at least not if one's someone who likes to create alt charactes once in a while - there's no way to pile up different material levels beforehand for that character now; apart from buying them through guild merchants, of course). Another thing, though I'm not sure if most people remember that anymore, is that changing the system also impaired the visuals a bit. It's a minor thing, sure, but I had the impression that the materials were often visually designed so they fit well into the zone/landscape they'd show up in.
You do get a smattering of lower-level materials in the daily crafting boxes, so there is at least a method of getting them. I have so many materials of all levels stockpiled in my crafting bag, I don't pay much attention to what comes out of those boxes every day, so I can't say how helpful that actually is for people.When it comes to provisioning and alchemy, which are the two biggest culprits of "it can be found anywhere," I somehow doubt that having regional specific ingredients would go over well with crafters. It would make the world seem more realistic, yes, but I don't think that's enough of a trade-off for limiting people's ability to craft more freely.
Would it make a big difference if characters can now travel anywhere freely? I don't know. Honestly, by now I have more cooking ingredients in my crafting bag than I'll ever need anyway.
While a character can travel anywhere freely, if someone is trying to complete a provisioning daily quest in Stonefalls, and they need a provisioning item that can only be found in the southern half of Bangkorai, it would be a bit of an inconvenience to travel all the way there just to find it. Not impossible, but probably not worth the time. I'm in the same situation as you: so many stacks of all ingredients (well, except for mudcrab chitin!) that I never have to think about gathering specific ones.Clockwork parts showing up outside of Clockwork is a bit messier, but I suppose I would just assume it was down to player characters taking the stuff and selling it on the outside, since we can clearly travel to and fro.
The thing is that narration-wise, all those other player characters showing up in CWC shouldn't even exist. It's still supposed to be a very rare opportunity to visit the city - and our player character, the great hero, is of course one of these exceptions - , but not a normal thing for random people to just visit CWC how ever they like. Sure, other player characters are seen by us in the game, because it's an MMO, but the story officially also says there's just one Vestige, for example, not thousands of them. "Realistically" we shouldn't even see other people being able to use wayshrines for travel, because we are the Vestige, and there's only one - but, well, it happens because it's a multiplayer game.
Which makes me wonder now if there was any way to make the player character's "special hero" status feel more unique, despite it being a multiplayer game? Be it through specific writing, or perhaps visuals that are limited to the player character (that everyone might see for their own Vestige, but not on player characters of other people), or any other means? Something that emphasizes that one's character is The Hero, and not just one of thousands of player characters that are also playing the very same story.
I know our characters are meant to be the only Vestige in the story, but since quest givers for world bosses, dungeons, and raids often tell us to "gather friends" and various lore accounts reference "a group of heroes" I figured that canonically more people than just our characters got in to, and back out of, Clockwork.
I'm not sure I'd want more attention called to the fact that my character is The Hero. Some of my characters aren't heroes at all, and it'd be strange for them to be lauded as such more so than npcs already do. But could they come up with something to do that? Probably. Would people like it? Mixed bag, I'm sure. Maybe they could give characters a special glow effect that only the player would see, so other players wouldn't see it on your character, but you would, and npcs would. Then they could sell customizable glow colors, even glitter, and...yes, I'm joking about the glow.Well, I don't know from experience, but I thought that if they saw you murder an npc, they came after you. Or that if you get caught stealing near a guard, they start attacking. I see them attacking players regularly enough, but not having been there when it started, I can't say for certain what the inciting incident might be. Regardless, they aren't there for our benefit.
Well, okay, they do aid npcs who fall victim to a crime committed by the player character, but that's the only exception. They never aid the player character when the player character gets attacked, and I'm not sure what they'd do if an npc would be attacked by an enemy npc (I think them intervening if a player character attacks an innocent npc could be directly linked to the player character being involved - as a programmed part of the game's justice system - instead of reacting to the npc receiving damage).
However they're programmed or whatever gets them to trigger their defenses, they clearly aren't there to help us. The guards are not our friends. That's why I never feel guilt for pickpocketing from them.
It's not so much that I care for that island as that I don't want filthy Worm Cultists despoiling Nirn. You know how the old saying goes: Give 'em an island, and then they'll want a continent. Besides, haven't the Argonian tribes who live there already suffered enough from colonizers?
In Death, finally everyone will be equal Everyone will dance, without exception.
Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basler_Totentanz
Well, except for the dog - the dog will remain alive
I love that image! Especially the detail of the skeleton cutting the dog free. The dog seems to be reacting like a dog would: friendly and curious, not very concerned. "Hey, Mr. Skeleton!"
Oh, that's rich, that is: claiming he's got no pride. Don't believe him! He's just trying to con you!Eh, but maybe Wormblood's brain didn't have all the words stored in it that Mannimarco was accustomed to, so he had to make do with what he had.
Maybe Wormblood was a lich after all, and his brain was already half-rotten! (Now imagine a necromantic corpse restauration ritual failing and the brought-back soul getting stuck in a body suffering from brainrot - it's a real risk, considering how many idiot cultists there are! Then again, that misfortunate individual could probably integrate into society just fine.)
But honestly, that leads to other interesting questions. If Wormblood was a lich, and Mannimarco's soul was banished back to Coldharbor, what would happen to Wormblood's body then? Would it be dead? Would it be physically restored/resurrected by the typical lich powers and Wormblood's soul could return to it? Or would it remain an empty, soul- and mindless, but living vessel? Sounds like an interesting thing to keep, and I don't mean only for a curiosity collection, but as something a Telvanni might want to study
Is there anyting a Telvanni wouldn't want to study? On the question of Wormblood being a lich already, we never did get an answer to that, did we? It was hinted at in his 'meet the character' article, I think, and then of course he could insta-rez in game, which seems to point to lich. So why couldn't his soul come back to whatever was left of his body after Mannimarco was knocked out of it? Well, let me know the results of your study on it! If that, is, you're even allowed to share such knowledge with a non-Telvanni.Gameplay trailers like that always do include bits of the playable story in them, unlike the CGI trailers we used to get for the chapters. The High Isle trailer, for example, had that showdown between the three heroes and the Ascendant Lord, but the actual in-game confrontation with him was nothing like that. So we'd know we were heading for a confrontation with the guy, but not exactly how it would play out. Those trailers were more about the gist of the story than showing actual elements of it.
Even the gameplay trailers often show things rearranged - think of the Mannimarco resurrection ritual. Though I do think this might really sometimes come down to changes of concept while developing the story. Who knows.
In any way, I think it's a pity there are no cgi trailers anymore, since I know many people really enjoyed them. I, personally, wasn't a big fan of them (never liked how the elves looked nothing like TES mer mostly, and I found many of them too action-focused with too little substance in terms of narrative content), but I think they did interest and hype a lot of people, and that had a value by itself.
In general trailers do show things out of sequence (thinking mostly of movie trailers here), so the cgi trailers weren't trailers in that sense. Well, I think they aren't even called trailers, really: cinematics, more like. Anyway, I do like the cgi trailers for what they are. Although I'm aware people don't like the way the elves look in them, I think overall the cinematics are visually quite stunning. The ones for Vvardenfell and Summerset had voiceover to them, giving them a little more narrative punch, but after that I think they did away with any voiceover. I wonder if we ever will get any of those types of trailers again.Agreed! I wonder if the author is to be found anywhere in game. Hopefully not hanging out in the IC sewers with those other two rival authors!
I read those new mount lorebooks now. I appreciate that they were added, and also found them entertaining to read (though of course I personally would have enjoyed even more in-depth explanations for these creatures and their genesis, and generally longer texts with more info; but that's just me). The number was a little lower than I had expected, but, okay, it makes sense, considering how many of those mounts fall into the feline category, so those all got the same lorebook, logically.
More information and longer lore books are always a treat, but I think the length of these fit with what they were meant to be: a short synopsis on the various mounts of the world, written by someone whose overarching life goal is to ride each type of mount at least once. I did like the one where he was chatting up a Telvanni about the kagouti and guar, but then the Telvanni got real close-lipped when he started asking about Vvardvarks and such. Oh, you Telvanni!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You do get a smattering of lower-level materials in the daily crafting boxes, so there is at least a method of getting them. I have so many materials of all levels stockpiled in my crafting bag, I don't pay much attention to what comes out of those boxes every day, so I can't say how helpful that actually is for people.
Ah, right. Only stacks of 10, though, I think, and they're random, so you can't get a specific type for an alt character.While a character can travel anywhere freely, if someone is trying to complete a provisioning daily quest in Stonefalls, and they need a provisioning item that can only be found in the southern half of Bangkorai, it would be a bit of an inconvenience to travel all the way there just to find it. Not impossible, but probably not worth the time.
I didn't think of that specific locations, more like making a difference between different climate zones. No bananas in Skyrim, for example. But, as I said, they would have needed to set up the game completely differently then (with all climate zones even being available for every faction), and it's much too late for that. Wouldn't make sense to redesign it now, either.
There's one normal crafting material I'm a little short on, by the way: Some low-level enchanting runes. Since those really only drop for characters who have that crafting level, and not even that often, because they share the drop chance with non-level-specific runes.I'm in the same situation as you: so many stacks of all ingredients (well, except for mudcrab chitin!) that I never have to think about gathering specific ones.
Yes, mudcrab chitin was also a little low usually, but it has gotten better since Solstice. I honestly had the feeling, several times, that rare materials were intentionally added in a bigger quantities to some new zones, to balance it out a bit. High Isle had lot of lootable giant clams, for example, dropping clam gall and mother of pearl, which formerly only dropped on Summerset, and were much rarer.I know our characters are meant to be the only Vestige in the story, but since quest givers for world bosses, dungeons, and raids often tell us to "gather friends" and various lore accounts reference "a group of heroes" I figured that canonically more people than just our characters got in to, and back out of, Clockwork.
I know that I didn't bring friends to CWCI'm not sure I'd want more attention called to the fact that my character is The Hero. Some of my characters aren't heroes at all, and it'd be strange for them to be lauded as such more so than npcs already do. But could they come up with something to do that? Probably. Would people like it? Mixed bag, I'm sure.
I didn't think of npc adressing us as "hero" all the time (I personally don't like that word much, either, as it doesn't really fit most of my characters). More like recognizing our special status or bringing it up in dialogue somehow, when it makes sense story-wise. Whether we like it, or not, our character is a special being according to the story, but strangely, it barely plays a role in many situations.Maybe they could give characters a special glow effect that only the player would see, so other players wouldn't see it on your character, but you would, and npcs would. Then they could sell customizable glow colors, even glitter, and...yes, I'm joking about the glow.
It would make sense the other way round: Removing glitter and glow from everyone else, since they're only commonersHowever they're programmed or whatever gets them to trigger their defenses, they clearly aren't there to help us. The guards are not our friends. That's why I never feel guilt for pickpocketing from them.
But what to do with all those bounty sheet furnishings?Oh, that's rich, that is: claiming he's got no pride. Don't believe him! He's just trying to con you!
I'm not sure if anyone believed him, but... he was charming, so I gave him the Totem nonetheless. If there's ever a Daggerfall remake, can it be modernized to include romance, please? Who would not love to romance this lich, or the other lich, or an Orc noble, or perhaps Emperor Uriel Septim VII (somehow he must have fathered his illegitimate son, no?)Is there anyting a Telvanni wouldn't want to study?
I don't think so.On the question of Wormblood being a lich already, we never did get an answer to that, did we? It was hinted at in his 'meet the character' article, I think, and then of course he could insta-rez in game, which seems to point to lich.
Another possible hint are those glowy eyes he sometimes has, which also look like there's some flow of necrotic energy going on, but it's also unclear if that actually has a meaning, or if it's only employed because someone thought it looks "cool".So why couldn't his soul come back to whatever was left of his body after Mannimarco was knocked out of it? Well, let me know the results of your study on it! If that, is, you're even allowed to share such knowledge with a non-Telvanni.
Maybe a soul once expelled can't return into its former body? We don't even know where it ended up, or if it was completely destroyed (not sure if that's even possible). I would have wished to see some lore on that! Well, ideally I'd like to see Wormblood return somehow (be it as a disembodied spirit or soul lingering somewhere), just to learn a bit more on the metaphysics of the Mundus. Also, introducing him as a one-time character who barely says or does a thing feels like a waste.In general trailers do show things out of sequence (thinking mostly of movie trailers here), so the cgi trailers weren't trailers in that sense. Well, I think they aren't even called trailers, really: cinematics, more like. Anyway, I do like the cgi trailers for what they are. Although I'm aware people don't like the way the elves look in them, I think overall the cinematics are visually quite stunning. The ones for Vvardenfell and Summerset had voiceover to them, giving them a little more narrative punch, but after that I think they did away with any voiceover. I wonder if we ever will get any of those types of trailers again.
I honestly don't think so. Even if we ever get a chapter (or chapter-like content) again, it's not a selling point anymore, so why advertise it?
Then again, of course, what to even advertise ESO with now? If there's an interest to attract new players, what to attract them with? People don't join a game just for the promise to be able to buy some fancy cosmetics, do they?More information and longer lore books are always a treat, but I think the length of these fit with what they were meant to be: a short synopsis on the various mounts of the world, written by someone whose overarching life goal is to ride each type of mount at least once. I did like the one where he was chatting up a Telvanni about the kagouti and guar, but then the Telvanni got real close-lipped when he started asking about Vvardvarks and such. Oh, you Telvanni!
I told you that riding Vvardvarks are a very valuable secret @Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I know our characters are meant to be the only Vestige in the story, but since quest givers for world bosses, dungeons, and raids often tell us to "gather friends" and various lore accounts reference "a group of heroes" I figured that canonically more people than just our characters got in to, and back out of, Clockwork.
I know that I didn't bring friends to CWC
I did! That is, my husband and I both took our characters in at the same time the first time I ever went there. Everyone else went in solo. I just figured Divayth Fyr was busy ferrying people over. He probably was working on the idea that since he couldn't be sure a single person would succeed, he may as well bring in a hundred or more.I'm not sure I'd want more attention called to the fact that my character is The Hero. Some of my characters aren't heroes at all, and it'd be strange for them to be lauded as such more so than npcs already do. But could they come up with something to do that? Probably. Would people like it? Mixed bag, I'm sure.
I didn't think of npc adressing us as "hero" all the time (I personally don't like that word much, either, as it doesn't really fit most of my characters). More like recognizing our special status or bringing it up in dialogue somehow, when it makes sense story-wise. Whether we like it, or not, our character is a special being according to the story, but strangely, it barely plays a role in many situations.
Oh, I agree there could be more done to recognize our characters for their status. It's like how no one on Solstice seemed to know we were with the Stirk Fellowship, to the point where I actually began to doubt I even was. Same with being an Eye of the Queen. You are officially made one in the base game Aldmeri Dominion main quest, but then at some point people stop remembering that--I mean other Eyes of the Queen, since I doubt the common populace is meant to know. So if, in dialogue options, it was mentioned where it made sense, that would be nice. Same goes for other parts of our character's journey that would be known. I think that would also enhance alt gameplay, especially if you don't do all the same things on every character. Like for my main guy, who has done everything, the dialogue could be written to show that his reputation precedes him and the npc has no doubt he can get the job done. For some of my alts, who have barely scratched the surface of being heroes, the dialogue could be written to show that the quest giver has some doubts, and wouldn't ask except they really need some help, and might even wonder if the character is even up to the task. Often times npcs will say, "You look like you can handle yourself in a fight," and for some of my characters I think, "Based on what? The fact that I have a staff? That could be a walking stick, for all you know!"
Or...was that not the kind of thing you were thinking about? Also, I have no idea how easy or not it might be to write npc dialogue like that--the technical aspect of it, that is, where they recognize your character's previous accomplishments.Maybe they could give characters a special glow effect that only the player would see, so other players wouldn't see it on your character, but you would, and npcs would. Then they could sell customizable glow colors, even glitter, and...yes, I'm joking about the glow.
It would make sense the other way round: Removing glitter and glow from everyone else, since they're only commoners
Haha, true! Well, maybe someday, after ZOS implements each and every toggle people ask for.
Set up your own mercenary contract-killing business, of course!Oh, that's rich, that is: claiming he's got no pride. Don't believe him! He's just trying to con you!
I'm not sure if anyone believed him, but... he was charming, so I gave him the Totem nonetheless. If there's ever a Daggerfall remake, can it be modernized to include romance, please? Who would not love to romance this lich, or the other lich, or an Orc noble, or perhaps Emperor Uriel Septim VII (somehow he must have fathered his illegitimate son, no?)
Syldras and Mannimarco, sitting in a tree... (actually, don't know if you're familiar with that childhood rhyme/taunt). As to the quest you reference, I do think it's funny he stuck the message in your mouth. Probably to keep you from screaming at the sight of him. Or his minion--I don't imagine he delivered it personally.
I can't recall any rpg I've ever played where you could romance "the villain." (I know Mannimarco wasn't "the villain" in Daggerfall--not referring specifically to him here.) That would be different, wouldn't it? Unless it wouldn't, and it was done long ago in a game I never played. But honestly, I do enjoy romance in the single player rpgs I've played, and I think the only drawback is the choices are often too limited. So I hope you one day do get your lich romance story!On the question of Wormblood being a lich already, we never did get an answer to that, did we? It was hinted at in his 'meet the character' article, I think, and then of course he could insta-rez in game, which seems to point to lich.
Another possible hint are those glowy eyes he sometimes has, which also look like there's some flow of necrotic energy going on, but it's also unclear if that actually has a meaning, or if it's only employed because someone thought it looks "cool".
Perhaps it was that old, tired "rule of cool" getting in the way of lore again. I would hope not, though.So why couldn't his soul come back to whatever was left of his body after Mannimarco was knocked out of it? Well, let me know the results of your study on it! If that, is, you're even allowed to share such knowledge with a non-Telvanni.
Maybe a soul once expelled can't return into its former body? We don't even know where it ended up, or if it was completely destroyed (not sure if that's even possible). I would have wished to see some lore on that! Well, ideally I'd like to see Wormblood return somehow (be it as a disembodied spirit or soul lingering somewhere), just to learn a bit more on the metaphysics of the Mundus. Also, introducing him as a one-time character who barely says or does a thing feels like a waste.
It really does feel like a waste. I thought there was a lot of interesting character potential there, and also family lore for Mannimarco, which is a thing I have often wondered about. Then the lore about lichdom, or necromancy, or the way souls work. So much I would love to know about! I know Raz was pretty confident that Wormblood was destroyed but, come on, what does Raz really know about such things? As much as I like him, he's not the character I would really go to for answers about such subject matter. So...maybe Wormblood does still exist somewhere and waits in the character vaults at ZOS, to perhaps be brought back someday.In general trailers do show things out of sequence (thinking mostly of movie trailers here), so the cgi trailers weren't trailers in that sense. Well, I think they aren't even called trailers, really: cinematics, more like. Anyway, I do like the cgi trailers for what they are. Although I'm aware people don't like the way the elves look in them, I think overall the cinematics are visually quite stunning. The ones for Vvardenfell and Summerset had voiceover to them, giving them a little more narrative punch, but after that I think they did away with any voiceover. I wonder if we ever will get any of those types of trailers again.
I honestly don't think so. Even if we ever get a chapter (or chapter-like content) again, it's not a selling point anymore, so why advertise it?
Then again, of course, what to even advertise ESO with now? If there's an interest to attract new players, what to attract them with? People don't join a game just for the promise to be able to buy some fancy cosmetics, do they?
I wouldn't think so, but cosmetics are a huge draw for people already in the game. I think to advertise ESO to new players, they would emphasize the amount of content already existing as well as that new content is free going forward. Or they could put out more things like the "you belong" style of trailer, or those commercials they made showing regular people getting pulled into the fantasy of Nirn. Then when those people get hooked, they start showing them the fancy clothes and mounts.More information and longer lore books are always a treat, but I think the length of these fit with what they were meant to be: a short synopsis on the various mounts of the world, written by someone whose overarching life goal is to ride each type of mount at least once. I did like the one where he was chatting up a Telvanni about the kagouti and guar, but then the Telvanni got real close-lipped when he started asking about Vvardvarks and such. Oh, you Telvanni!
I told you that riding Vvardvarks are a very valuable secret
Everything you Telvanni know falls under the category of "very valuable secret." You're all just really very bad at sharing. 1 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just figured Divayth Fyr was busy ferrying people over. He probably was working on the idea that since he couldn't be sure a single person would succeed, he may as well bring in a hundred or more.
They could have included that into the story through dialogue, I think. Though of course that would lead to logic problems if there's no one around anymore (though I actually have the impression that CWC isn't that deserted as some other zones, for some reason)...
Then again, in the Solstice chapter we have a whole army following us through East Solstice (mentioned in dialogue all the time) that no one ever sees. Which did feel jarring to me.Oh, I agree there could be more done to recognize our characters for their status. It's like how no one on Solstice seemed to know we were with the Stirk Fellowship, to the point where I actually began to doubt I even was. Same with being an Eye of the Queen. You are officially made one in the base game Aldmeri Dominion main quest, but then at some point people stop remembering that--I mean other Eyes of the Queen, since I doubt the common populace is meant to know. So if, in dialogue options, it was mentioned where it made sense, that would be nice. Same goes for other parts of our character's journey that would be known.
I'm not only thinking about dialogue that "only" serves immersion, but actually employing our status as the Vestige - with all that means in lore, including special abilities or corporal aspects - as part of a story. We're playing a character that has a body remade from daedric matter, we can travel through way shrines, we have no soul or had our soul removed once (which might also have altered something permanently, even if we got it back) - why not employ such aspects into storytelling more often? The Vestige might be a perfect candidate for some tasks because of some Vestige-specific factors, for example. Or might be able to do things the average mortal absolutely can't do at all.I think that would also enhance alt gameplay, especially if you don't do all the same things on every character. Like for my main guy, who has done everything, the dialogue could be written to show that his reputation precedes him and the npc has no doubt he can get the job done. For some of my alts, who have barely scratched the surface of being heroes, the dialogue could be written to show that the quest giver has some doubts, and wouldn't ask except they really need some help, and might even wonder if the character is even up to the task.
I wonder if that would be still technically possible. What tracks our progress? Is it even still fully trackable per character after AwA? I think many aspects got muddled with that update.Often times npcs will say, "You look like you can handle yourself in a fight," and for some of my characters I think, "Based on what? The fact that I have a staff? That could be a walking stick, for all you know!"
Even funnier to me are dialogues that refer to physical strength. If anything, my main looks dainty and underweight - he's a powerful mage, he doesn't need physical strength to get things done. It's part of who he is and he's perfect like that. But then I come across questgivers shouting "Hey there! You look strong!" (at least in the German translation; not sure how the original is worded)... Considering there are all types of player characters, wording it differently might have fit better. (I'm aware, of course, that "strong" can also refer to non-physical aspects, but honestly, how probable is that if a stranger is shouting that at you?)Set up your own mercenary contract-killing business, of course!
With dozens of the same bounty sheets? Thinking more about it, they could add a few new ones to the collection once in a while. And instead of generic pictures they could also have done a few for antagonists of the zone stories? Only if they're known as "evil" and the guards would be seeking for them, of course.Syldras and Mannimarco, sitting in a tree... (actually, don't know if you're familiar with that childhood rhyme/taunt).
There will be no trees left once the Coldharborization of Nirn is completed! (But that doesn't matter; we'll marry in front of the Shrine of the Heart's Day Lich anyway.)As to the quest you reference, I do think it's funny he stuck the message in your mouth. Probably to keep you from screaming at the sight of him. Or his minion--I don't imagine he delivered it personally.
Yes, he usually sends minions, skeletons, zombies, all that. Though he's quite charming if you meet him in person. Not stuffing any letters into your mouth, either.I can't recall any rpg I've ever played where you could romance "the villain." (I know Mannimarco wasn't "the villain" in Daggerfall--not referring specifically to him here.) That would be different, wouldn't it? Unless it wouldn't, and it was done long ago in a game I never played.
It sounds like a fun concept (given the "villain" is an elven lich), though it needs a certain talent in writing to make it work out well. It wouldn't be the typical straightforward narration, good vs evil, etc.But honestly, I do enjoy romance in the single player rpgs I've played, and I think the only drawback is the choices are often too limited. So I hope you one day do get your lich romance story!
I'm sure a game about romancing a lich would be a huge success and sell very wellPerhaps it was that old, tired "rule of cool" getting in the way of lore again. I would hope not, though.
Well, you know I'm personally someone who cares for meaning most of all. The tendency that it's unclear if some depiction has meaning or is just some flashy, cool visual shenanigans, does bother me, increasingly.It really does feel like a waste. I thought there was a lot of interesting character potential there, and also family lore for Mannimarco, which is a thing I have often wondered about. Then the lore about lichdom, or necromancy, or the way souls work. So much I would love to know about! I know Raz was pretty confident that Wormblood was destroyed but, come on, what does Raz really know about such things? As much as I like him, he's not the character I would really go to for answers about such subject matter. So...maybe Wormblood does still exist somewhere and waits in the character vaults at ZOS, to perhaps be brought back someday.
It's another thing I'd really like to make a petition about, if petitions were allowed hereI wouldn't think so, but cosmetics are a huge draw for people already in the game. I think to advertise ESO to new players, they would emphasize the amount of content already existing as well as that new content is free going forward. Or they could put out more things like the "you belong" style of trailer, or those commercials they made showing regular people getting pulled into the fantasy of Nirn. Then when those people get hooked, they start showing them the fancy clothes and mounts.
I have been wondering how a new ESO ad would look like now. They'd probably show different facets of Tamriel (and possibly the daedric realms available in game)? Would that already suffice to attract people? Or would more be needed? But what beyond that? Random story bits of different stories don't make much sense, probably (also, I'm not sure how much one would even manage to fit into a short ad video), but I somehow can't see them advertise old chapters, either. I can't imagine a new ad for Morrowind, for example, or for Greymoor, showing up again years later. Not even if they kept showing the old ones again, with some slightly changed text (something indicating that this is one of the many stories available in ESO, instead of presenting it as the newest addition, like they did that before, when they still had the chapter model). But I know they will need to do something; how else would one attract new players?Everything you Telvanni know falls under the category of "very valuable secret." You're all just really very bad at sharing.
We've already shared the Vvardvark with the world, that's enough for the next few eras
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just figured Divayth Fyr was busy ferrying people over. He probably was working on the idea that since he couldn't be sure a single person would succeed, he may as well bring in a hundred or more.
They could have included that into the story through dialogue, I think. Though of course that would lead to logic problems if there's no one around anymore (though I actually have the impression that CWC isn't that deserted as some other zones, for some reason)...
Then again, in the Solstice chapter we have a whole army following us through East Solstice (mentioned in dialogue all the time) that no one ever sees. Which did feel jarring to me.
Azah did mention a couple of times that he was holding off on calling the army in because of the reapers. Well, first it was scouting reasons, then it was the reapers. However, in the end, when they're supposedly finally called in, they don't appear, which is weird. Though I think ZOS fixed the visuals of the Fellowship camp by Mor Naril, and now it actually has people in it instead of being empty like it was when I did the quest. I haven't checked that in-game; just read something about it in patch notes.Oh, I agree there could be more done to recognize our characters for their status. It's like how no one on Solstice seemed to know we were with the Stirk Fellowship, to the point where I actually began to doubt I even was. Same with being an Eye of the Queen. You are officially made one in the base game Aldmeri Dominion main quest, but then at some point people stop remembering that--I mean other Eyes of the Queen, since I doubt the common populace is meant to know. So if, in dialogue options, it was mentioned where it made sense, that would be nice. Same goes for other parts of our character's journey that would be known.
I'm not only thinking about dialogue that "only" serves immersion, but actually employing our status as the Vestige - with all that means in lore, including special abilities or corporal aspects - as part of a story. We're playing a character that has a body remade from daedric matter, we can travel through way shrines, we have no soul or had our soul removed once (which might also have altered something permanently, even if we got it back) - why not employ such aspects into storytelling more often? The Vestige might be a perfect candidate for some tasks because of some Vestige-specific factors, for example. Or might be able to do things the average mortal absolutely can't do at all.
To the wayshrine point I say that was a meaningless bit of lore being shoehorned in to explain a game mechanic that didn't need explanation. It also doesn't matter if your character has had their soul ripped out or not--they can use the wayshrines regardless of soul/Vestige status. I've skipped the Coldharbour tutorial on new characters and sent them on their way in the world without bothering with the main quest--intact soul, original body, can still use wayshrine.
But with that petty gripe out of the way, I agree that our unique status could be brought into the story more often, but in a weird way that limits people's abilities to define their character. Only my main character is The Vestige in my mind--he's the singular one who had that experience in my own lore--all my other characters exist in the world without that designation. Although technically most of them have done the main quest (because it's impossible to drop it and I want that thing out of my log!) in my mind they aren't vestiges. I understand that when one signs up to play ESO, one is tacitly agreeing to become The Vestige--that's the story being told here, after all--but that doesn't stop me from considering my other characters to not be such and I don't know how well I would like it if it was made even more core to the gameplay. That's just me, though: I do think your idea of incorporating the Vestige status more into gameply is an interesting one and could work out well.I think that would also enhance alt gameplay, especially if you don't do all the same things on every character. Like for my main guy, who has done everything, the dialogue could be written to show that his reputation precedes him and the npc has no doubt he can get the job done. For some of my alts, who have barely scratched the surface of being heroes, the dialogue could be written to show that the quest giver has some doubts, and wouldn't ask except they really need some help, and might even wonder if the character is even up to the task.
I wonder if that would be still technically possible. What tracks our progress? Is it even still fully trackable per character after AwA? I think many aspects got muddled with that update.
Some things did get muddled--though I believe they tried to correct that as far as npcs recognizing characters and ambient dialogue lines went. Quests are still per character, and I think quest completion is the main factor when npcs recognize a character, or when extra dialogue options are available (though sometimes other options come up, like proficiency with a craft, or a race-linked line).Often times npcs will say, "You look like you can handle yourself in a fight," and for some of my characters I think, "Based on what? The fact that I have a staff? That could be a walking stick, for all you know!"
Even funnier to me are dialogues that refer to physical strength. If anything, my main looks dainty and underweight - he's a powerful mage, he doesn't need physical strength to get things done. It's part of who he is and he's perfect like that. But then I come across questgivers shouting "Hey there! You look strong!" (at least in the German translation; not sure how the original is worded)... Considering there are all types of player characters, wording it differently might have fit better. (I'm aware, of course, that "strong" can also refer to non-physical aspects, but honestly, how probable is that if a stranger is shouting that at you?)
I believe it's the same in English--the 'you look strong' comment. And yeah, if a stranger is shouting that at you, it's high odds they're referring to the physical definition of strength. Unless they somehow possess the ability to see into your soul and so know of your mental and emotional fortitude.Set up your own mercenary contract-killing business, of course!
With dozens of the same bounty sheets? Thinking more about it, they could add a few new ones to the collection once in a while. And instead of generic pictures they could also have done a few for antagonists of the zone stories? Only if they're known as "evil" and the guards would be seeking for them, of course.
Look, you need to cast a wide net to get a job done right. If all the guards have the same bounty sheet, seems clear no one has been able to take out the criminal yet, which means it's probably some super-villain, which means you need to get The Vestige to take care of it, but you are the Vestige, and you're tired of contract killings, so you're hiring out to the next best person, only you haven't found them yet, so you keep posting the same ad for the same bounty sheet. There. Explained.
Seriously, some more detailed bounty posters would be fun to collect. Could have one of Estre. Naemon (one for each form). Thallik Wormfather. Angof the Gravesinger. All the various evil Tharns. Even one of our character, because it's likely someone's put a bounty on our heads!Syldras and Mannimarco, sitting in a tree... (actually, don't know if you're familiar with that childhood rhyme/taunt).
There will be no trees left once the Coldharborization of Nirn is completed! (But that doesn't matter; we'll marry in front of the Shrine of the Heart's Day Lich anyway.)
Lol...sounds like you have it all planned!I can't recall any rpg I've ever played where you could romance "the villain." (I know Mannimarco wasn't "the villain" in Daggerfall--not referring specifically to him here.) That would be different, wouldn't it? Unless it wouldn't, and it was done long ago in a game I never played.
It sounds like a fun concept (given the "villain" is an elven lich), though it needs a certain talent in writing to make it work out well. It wouldn't be the typical straightforward narration, good vs evil, etc.
Yeah, it would be interesting to see how something like that worked out. At least it would be interesting to me.
Ha, I didn't mean an entire game revolving around romancing a lich; just that it could be worked into a game where it made sense...assuming it ever makes sense!Perhaps it was that old, tired "rule of cool" getting in the way of lore again. I would hope not, though.
Well, you know I'm personally someone who cares for meaning most of all. The tendency that it's unclear if some depiction has meaning or is just some flashy, cool visual shenanigans, does bother me, increasingly.
It tends to make me think I'm not the intended audience for the material.It really does feel like a waste. I thought there was a lot of interesting character potential there, and also family lore for Mannimarco, which is a thing I have often wondered about. Then the lore about lichdom, or necromancy, or the way souls work. So much I would love to know about! I know Raz was pretty confident that Wormblood was destroyed but, come on, what does Raz really know about such things? As much as I like him, he's not the character I would really go to for answers about such subject matter. So...maybe Wormblood does still exist somewhere and waits in the character vaults at ZOS, to perhaps be brought back someday.
It's another thing I'd really like to make a petition about, if petitions were allowed here
/signed!I wouldn't think so, but cosmetics are a huge draw for people already in the game. I think to advertise ESO to new players, they would emphasize the amount of content already existing as well as that new content is free going forward. Or they could put out more things like the "you belong" style of trailer, or those commercials they made showing regular people getting pulled into the fantasy of Nirn. Then when those people get hooked, they start showing them the fancy clothes and mounts.
I have been wondering how a new ESO ad would look like now. They'd probably show different facets of Tamriel (and possibly the daedric realms available in game)? Would that already suffice to attract people? Or would more be needed? But what beyond that? Random story bits of different stories don't make much sense, probably (also, I'm not sure how much one would even manage to fit into a short ad video), but I somehow can't see them advertise old chapters, either. I can't imagine a new ad for Morrowind, for example, or for Greymoor, showing up again years later. Not even if they kept showing the old ones again, with some slightly changed text (something indicating that this is one of the many stories available in ESO, instead of presenting it as the newest addition, like they did that before, when they still had the chapter model). But I know they will need to do something; how else would one attract new players?
I really don't know what a new ad for ESO might look like, with the new seasons model. When I first learned there was going to be an ESO MMO, I said to my husband, "Really? I can't see that working out very well." He started playing it immediately (but soon gave up because of inventory management) and went back to it after One Tamriel and optional sub and that's when he dragged me in to playing it. Without his influence I never would have touched this game, because of my preconceived notions, so I'm the last person to know what kind of ad would draw in new people.
I actually don't see a whole lot of game ads anywhere. I do remember an old Rift ad where the tag line, "You're not in Azeroth anymore." That was a video game promoting that, whatever they were, it wasn't WoW, which I thought was a strange choice.
Oh yes, of course! My mistake! How generous and open-handed you all are!0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azah did mention a couple of times that he was holding off on calling the army in because of the reapers. Well, first it was scouting reasons, then it was the reapers. However, in the end, when they're supposedly finally called in, they don't appear, which is weird. Though I think ZOS fixed the visuals of the Fellowship camp by Mor Naril, and now it actually has people in it instead of being empty like it was when I did the quest. I haven't checked that in-game; just read something about it in patch notes.
Really? Was that a bug? I thought it was just a strange design decision. Well, I wanted to replay the whole thing on another character some day, anyway, also for the ending dialogues with those allies at Mor Naril, which were also extremely bugged the first time (they were only repeating their last side quest dialogue part).
I generally find the number of bugs concerning. We already discussed how bad the Wall event last year went, but Heart's Day also had lots of bugs with animations not playing (plus choices making no difference at all left the impression that everything was unfinished somehow), and what I've read about the latest crown crates also sounded rather sad. There's a whole thread about all bugged items, and it's over a dozen, really. It had not been like that before, had it?To the wayshrine point I say that was a meaningless bit of lore being shoehorned in to explain a game mechanic that didn't need explanation. It also doesn't matter if your character has had their soul ripped out or not--they can use the wayshrines regardless of soul/Vestige status. I've skipped the Coldharbour tutorial on new characters and sent them on their way in the world without bothering with the main quest--intact soul, original body, can still use wayshrine.
It actually makes me wonder why they bound the usage of wayshrines to Vestige status in ESO, lorewise. Other TES games had teleportation shrines that could be used by normal mortals. Maybe they wanted some explanation why random npcs couldn't just travel by shrine but other means were necessary in stories? Then again, everyone seems to just teleport now, anyway.But with that petty gripe out of the way, I agree that our unique status could be brought into the story more often, but in a weird way that limits people's abilities to define their character. Only my main character is The Vestige in my mind--he's the singular one who had that experience in my own lore--all my other characters exist in the world without that designation. Although technically most of them have done the main quest (because it's impossible to drop it and I want that thing out of my log!) in my mind they aren't vestiges. I understand that when one signs up to play ESO, one is tacitly agreeing to become The Vestige--that's the story being told here, after all--but that doesn't stop me from considering my other characters to not be such and I don't know how well I would like it if it was made even more core to the gameplay. That's just me, though: I do think your idea of incorporating the Vestige status more into gameply is an interesting one and could work out well.
It's just strange that this is the one basic point that ESO defines for our character's background for the story (whether one likes it or not), but it doesn't really seem to have any meaning beyond the base game main quest, and even there, it mostly just matters during the end fight.
Is it still possible to avoid the Coldharbor intro, by the way (and if yes, how does a character start that story later - or, worded differently, is it even still possible for a newly created character right now not to begin the game as the Vestige)? I'm not sure about it since they decided to make in the standard again after trashing Balfiera and the room of portals. Which to me looked like a deliberate choice to clearly set the player character's Vestige background as the starting point of ESO - while having the different chapter tutorials meant you could very easily play a non-Vestige for a long time, or never become the Vestige at all.I believe it's the same in English--the 'you look strong' comment. And yeah, if a stranger is shouting that at you, it's high odds they're referring to the physical definition of strength. Unless they somehow possess the ability to see into your soul and so know of your mental and emotional fortitude.
Or maybe they're so terrified they could anger a Telvanni, so they come up with the first compliment that comes to their mind.Look, you need to cast a wide net to get a job done right. If all the guards have the same bounty sheet, seems clear no one has been able to take out the criminal yet, which means it's probably some super-villain, which means you need to get The Vestige to take care of it, but you are the Vestige, and you're tired of contract killings, so you're hiring out to the next best person, only you haven't found them yet, so you keep posting the same ad for the same bounty sheet. There. Explained.
Maybe these individuals don't even exist and the guards are just trying to look busy.Seriously, some more detailed bounty posters would be fun to collect. Could have one of Estre. Naemon (one for each form). Thallik Wormfather. Angof the Gravesinger. All the various evil Tharns. Even one of our character, because it's likely someone's put a bounty on our heads!
While technically having one for the player character is probably impossible, I'd honestly love to see them add those you mentioned, to guards of the respective zones (or do they all share the same possible inventory for drops?).Lol...sounds like you have it all planned!
Well... not everything. I checked that children's rhyme manual you mentioned, and it mentions "a baby". Where would we get a baby from, there are no children in Tamriel! Could we maybe just kidnap an adult Bosmer? Then again, what would an immortal lich even need a heir for?Yeah, it would be interesting to see how something like that worked out. At least it would be interesting to me.
I'm personally also always interested in unconventional concepts, but I do wonder if a reasonable number of people would share that interest, to make it worthwhile for the writers to come up with something like that.Ha, I didn't mean an entire game revolving around romancing a lich;
Why not?just that it could be worked into a game where it made sense...assuming it ever makes sense!
I mean, why not, for real. "Lich" doesn't necessarily mean it's (still) an evil character (and even if it was, I'm not sure if that's really a problem). We've even already come across non-evil liches in ESO. They could even introduce one as a companion. Not sure how many other players would enjoy that, but I know I would (if well-written and an interesting character)It tends to make me think I'm not the intended audience for the material.
Yes, indeed. Sadly, there is an increasing number of aspects in ESO, especially also about the writing, where I get the feeling that I don't seem to be the intended target group. Of course I understand that a big MMO needs to cater to different interests and provide, at best, content for all kinds of different people, but if the whole direction starts to feel off, it's a problem. For me it's mostly the simplification tendency we've seen over the years. More simple, one-note characters, simpler stories without turns of events or complicated decisions that make you think, simple morals and writing that presents story events as some kind of "lesson", puzzles that aren't really puzzles but just randomly clicking an item, even the speech style seems to have become less complex for many characters, and almost everyone sounds the same anyway.
Actually that example with the character saying "tank" during the Heart's Week quest is also such an example - the story would have worked very well without using a real world word. But that they chose to use that one, and didn't try to paraphrase it in a way that fits the lore and world instead, left the impression they don't believe the average player to have even the slightest abstraction skills, to be able to understand it without it being completely the same as in the real world. And that's rather sad because I think that's a huge underestimation of the playerbase's intellect.
There's actually a term for that (that already exists for a long time; it came up in the movie business in the 1930's): dumbing down. Heavily simplifying an existing work (removing nuance, complexity, difficult situations/questions/themes,...), because of the idea to appeal to a very broad audience, including people of little intelligence and education. A definition that doesn't sound nice, I guess, but the impression these simplifications leave to me also doesn't exactly feel nice, so I guess it fits. I think no one is happy about being treated as much less intelligent than one actually is, which basically comes across like infantilization; even if that might not have been the intention (even if the intention might have actually been a positive one - about being able to appeal to almost everyone).I really don't know what a new ad for ESO might look like, with the new seasons model. When I first learned there was going to be an ESO MMO, I said to my husband, "Really? I can't see that working out very well." He started playing it immediately (but soon gave up because of inventory management) and went back to it after One Tamriel and optional sub and that's when he dragged me in to playing it. Without his influence I never would have touched this game, because of my preconceived notions, so I'm the last person to know what kind of ad would draw in new people.
I was also sceptical at first. I also wondered if there were really enough players interested in a TES MMO. At least I had never seen people suggesting something like that. Sure, there were people who wished for a 2-person coop mode for a singleplayer TES game, but that's a different thing compared to an MMO. I still gave it a try - after almost 2 years. And I liked the stories so much, as well as the fact that I could just play it as a normal rpg, so I stayed. Then we got the wonderful additions to the world that were Morrowind, CWC and Summerset. I also liked the world building of Elsweyr, and Greymoor was also an entertaining story. Honestly, without that good start with the base game and the first few chapters, I'm not sure if I had stayed here. If I imagine my first year would have been High Isle - possibly not. The first impression is an important one.I actually don't see a whole lot of game ads anywhere. I do remember an old Rift ad where the tag line, "You're not in Azeroth anymore." That was a video game promoting that, whatever they were, it wasn't WoW, which I thought was a strange choice.
I do come across video game ads on Youtube and Reddit (if I take a look at the latter, irregularly), but most aren't really interesting, to be honest. It's often some "cool" flashy effects instead of anything meaningful, so of course it doesn't appeal to me. Not saying that to be snobby, but because "cool" visuals without any story background genuinely don't catch my attention/interest. No meaning = boring. That's the simple truth for me.Oh yes, of course! My mistake! How generous and open-handed you all are!
We also gave you the spore horse, that no one knows and no one wants
Edited by Syldras on 21 March 2026 13:14@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Azah did mention a couple of times that he was holding off on calling the army in because of the reapers. Well, first it was scouting reasons, then it was the reapers. However, in the end, when they're supposedly finally called in, they don't appear, which is weird. Though I think ZOS fixed the visuals of the Fellowship camp by Mor Naril, and now it actually has people in it instead of being empty like it was when I did the quest. I haven't checked that in-game; just read something about it in patch notes.
Really? Was that a bug? I thought it was just a strange design decision. Well, I wanted to replay the whole thing on another character some day, anyway, also for the ending dialogues with those allies at Mor Naril, which were also extremely bugged the first time (they were only repeating their last side quest dialogue part).
I generally find the number of bugs concerning. We already discussed how bad the Wall event last year went, but Heart's Day also had lots of bugs with animations not playing (plus choices making no difference at all left the impression that everything was unfinished somehow), and what I've read about the latest crown crates also sounded rather sad. There's a whole thread about all bugged items, and it's over a dozen, really. It had not been like that before, had it?
I don't recall crown crate items being so bugged before; it's really unfortunate that has happened. I'm really hoping ZOS has figured out a release cadence for quests going forward that allows them more time to do quality control checks--or respond to issues brought up on PTS.To the wayshrine point I say that was a meaningless bit of lore being shoehorned in to explain a game mechanic that didn't need explanation. It also doesn't matter if your character has had their soul ripped out or not--they can use the wayshrines regardless of soul/Vestige status. I've skipped the Coldharbour tutorial on new characters and sent them on their way in the world without bothering with the main quest--intact soul, original body, can still use wayshrine.
It actually makes me wonder why they bound the usage of wayshrines to Vestige status in ESO, lorewise. Other TES games had teleportation shrines that could be used by normal mortals. Maybe they wanted some explanation why random npcs couldn't just travel by shrine but other means were necessary in stories? Then again, everyone seems to just teleport now, anyway.
I still think it's something that didn't really need an explanation. People don't seem to wonder why everyone doesn't just travel by mage portal, and we haven't gotten any convoluted reasons for why the average person instead just takes a cart or horse or walks.But with that petty gripe out of the way, I agree that our unique status could be brought into the story more often, but in a weird way that limits people's abilities to define their character. Only my main character is The Vestige in my mind--he's the singular one who had that experience in my own lore--all my other characters exist in the world without that designation. Although technically most of them have done the main quest (because it's impossible to drop it and I want that thing out of my log!) in my mind they aren't vestiges. I understand that when one signs up to play ESO, one is tacitly agreeing to become The Vestige--that's the story being told here, after all--but that doesn't stop me from considering my other characters to not be such and I don't know how well I would like it if it was made even more core to the gameplay. That's just me, though: I do think your idea of incorporating the Vestige status more into gameply is an interesting one and could work out well.
It's just strange that this is the one basic point that ESO defines for our character's background for the story (whether one likes it or not), but it doesn't really seem to have any meaning beyond the base game main quest, and even there, it mostly just matters during the end fight.
Is it still possible to avoid the Coldharbor intro, by the way (and if yes, how does a character start that story later - or, worded differently, is it even still possible for a newly created character right now not to begin the game as the Vestige)? I'm not sure about it since they decided to make in the standard again after trashing Balfiera and the room of portals. Which to me looked like a deliberate choice to clearly set the player character's Vestige background as the starting point of ESO - while having the different chapter tutorials meant you could very easily play a non-Vestige for a long time, or never become the Vestige at all.
You can skip the Coldharbour intro when you first make a character, yes. You can create a character, hit the 'skip tutorial' button, and it'll plop you on whatever starter island belongs to your alliance. Then you can adventure in the starter islands like a normal person (though the whole "you just washed up out of the sea!" story bit is still there) and then the second you get near the first city for your alliance, the main quest gets shoved in your log with the "mysterious benefactor" quest. If you choose to believe the strange hooded cultist who says their benefactor wants to give you gifts, you go to meet this benefactor and are ambushed. Then you get the whole cut-scene with being executed by our pal Mannimarco, and you wake up in Coldharbour with Lyris busting you out of your cell, and then you go through the whole tutorial you skipped in the first place. If you don't choose to believe the strange hooded cultist and you never go meet the benefactor, you don't get your soul stripped from you and you can wander around Tamriel all you please, but that benefactor quest will remain in your quest log until your dying day.
And since the game was set up for you to be soulless, all the references to you being different (or a ghost outright saying you have no soul) are still there, which can make for some awkward (or amusing) moments if one is role-playing their character as fully intact, soul and all.I believe it's the same in English--the 'you look strong' comment. And yeah, if a stranger is shouting that at you, it's high odds they're referring to the physical definition of strength. Unless they somehow possess the ability to see into your soul and so know of your mental and emotional fortitude.
Or maybe they're so terrified they could anger a Telvanni, so they come up with the first compliment that comes to their mind.
That is my guiding philosophy, so I fully understand the motivation.Look, you need to cast a wide net to get a job done right. If all the guards have the same bounty sheet, seems clear no one has been able to take out the criminal yet, which means it's probably some super-villain, which means you need to get The Vestige to take care of it, but you are the Vestige, and you're tired of contract killings, so you're hiring out to the next best person, only you haven't found them yet, so you keep posting the same ad for the same bounty sheet. There. Explained.
Maybe these individuals don't even exist and the guards are just trying to look busy.
Lol, well considering how ineffective they are in general, I think that tracks.Seriously, some more detailed bounty posters would be fun to collect. Could have one of Estre. Naemon (one for each form). Thallik Wormfather. Angof the Gravesinger. All the various evil Tharns. Even one of our character, because it's likely someone's put a bounty on our heads!
While technically having one for the player character is probably impossible, I'd honestly love to see them add those you mentioned, to guards of the respective zones (or do they all share the same possible inventory for drops?).
They probably all have the same drop inventory, true, but it would still be cool to get some different bounty posters.Lol...sounds like you have it all planned!
Well... not everything. I checked that children's rhyme manual you mentioned, and it mentions "a baby". Where would we get a baby from, there are no children in Tamriel! Could we maybe just kidnap an adult Bosmer? Then again, what would an immortal lich even need a heir for?
Don't you already have a Bosmer? Isn't he already set up to be your heir? As for why you'd need one: to stage your glorious comeback, of course! Just don't treat your Bosmer as badly as Mannimarco treated Wormblood; that would just be mean.Yeah, it would be interesting to see how something like that worked out. At least it would be interesting to me.
I'm personally also always interested in unconventional concepts, but I do wonder if a reasonable number of people would share that interest, to make it worthwhile for the writers to come up with something like that.
Well, considering how well the conventional stories have been received, it couldn't be any worse trying for something unconventional, or so it seems to me. I think they did try something a little like that with the Ascendant Lord--morally grey, you could agree with some of the points he was making, and so forth--but in the end they gave us megalomaniacal villain. At any rate, I'm here for unconventional story telling, and even if, in the end, it didn't quite suit me, I'd still be glad to have experienced it.just that it could be worked into a game where it made sense...assuming it ever makes sense!
I mean, why not, for real. "Lich" doesn't necessarily mean it's (still) an evil character (and even if it was, I'm not sure if that's really a problem). We've even already come across non-evil liches in ESO. They could even introduce one as a companion. Not sure how many other players would enjoy that, but I know I would (if well-written and an interesting character)
When I wrote "assuming it ever makes sense," I was referring to the setting and story as a whole, with the knowledge that liches are usually put into a story for a specific reason that doesn't get anywhere near romance. Basically, that was me doubting anyone would ever write a lich that fit into a romance. But considering people love vampire romance, I honestly don't see what's fundamentally different between a lich and a vampire as far as that aspect goes. A lich companion could definitely work in ESO.It tends to make me think I'm not the intended audience for the material.
Yes, indeed. Sadly, there is an increasing number of aspects in ESO, especially also about the writing, where I get the feeling that I don't seem to be the intended target group. Of course I understand that a big MMO needs to cater to different interests and provide, at best, content for all kinds of different people, but if the whole direction starts to feel off, it's a problem. For me it's mostly the simplification tendency we've seen over the years. More simple, one-note characters, simpler stories without turns of events or complicated decisions that make you think, simple morals and writing that presents story events as some kind of "lesson", puzzles that aren't really puzzles but just randomly clicking an item, even the speech style seems to have become less complex for many characters, and almost everyone sounds the same anyway.
Actually that example with the character saying "tank" during the Heart's Week quest is also such an example - the story would have worked very well without using a real world word. But that they chose to use that one, and didn't try to paraphrase it in a way that fits the lore and world instead, left the impression they don't believe the average player to have even the slightest abstraction skills, to be able to understand it without it being completely the same as in the real world. And that's rather sad because I think that's a huge underestimation of the playerbase's intellect.
There's actually a term for that (that already exists for a long time; it came up in the movie business in the 1930's): dumbing down. Heavily simplifying an existing work (removing nuance, complexity, difficult situations/questions/themes,...), because of the idea to appeal to a very broad audience, including people of little intelligence and education. A definition that doesn't sound nice, I guess, but the impression these simplifications leave to me also doesn't exactly feel nice, so I guess it fits. I think no one is happy about being treated as much less intelligent than one actually is, which basically comes across like infantilization; even if that might not have been the intention (even if the intention might have actually been a positive one - about being able to appeal to almost everyone).
Dumbing down is something that sadly does appear too frequently and it's an unfortunate approach. I don't know that I would characterize the use of the word 'tank' as dumbing down, though. I think that quest was meant to be a reference to the players, not necessarily the game world--a sort of tribute to the people who play the game and stick together, even though they sometimes have little snags along the way. Whether or not it should have been in the game like that is a different point of discussion, but I really don't think they used 'tank' because they thought the players wouldn't understand a different word. When I was playing the quest, I honestly didn't even register the use of it as out of place, because to me it was a story about a group of players. I was more concerned about the Sanguine aspect of the festival--there being no perceivable consequences to our choices.
However, when it comes to puzzles not being puzzles, or having npcs shout the answer at me before I even have a chance to look things over--that does come across as dumbing down, and I don't like it. I think they are putting some more puzzle like elements in with the rumors and favors system--at least I think they mentioned that--and wasn't there something about some of the Night Market quests being somewhat puzzle-like or puzzle-adjacent? I also want a return to quests with decision points that make me stop a moment and think about it. Click-through players are going to click-through no matter what's on screen, so why bother writing for them? Write for the people who care about character, story, and immersion--that's my "hot take" on it.I really don't know what a new ad for ESO might look like, with the new seasons model. When I first learned there was going to be an ESO MMO, I said to my husband, "Really? I can't see that working out very well." He started playing it immediately (but soon gave up because of inventory management) and went back to it after One Tamriel and optional sub and that's when he dragged me in to playing it. Without his influence I never would have touched this game, because of my preconceived notions, so I'm the last person to know what kind of ad would draw in new people.
I was also sceptical at first. I also wondered if there were really enough players interested in a TES MMO. At least I had never seen people suggesting something like that. Sure, there were people who wished for a 2-person coop mode for a singleplayer TES game, but that's a different thing compared to an MMO. I still gave it a try - after almost 2 years. And I liked the stories so much, as well as the fact that I could just play it as a normal rpg, so I stayed. Then we got the wonderful additions to the world that were Morrowind, CWC and Summerset. I also liked the world building of Elsweyr, and Greymoor was also an entertaining story. Honestly, without that good start with the base game and the first few chapters, I'm not sure if I had stayed here. If I imagine my first year would have been High Isle - possibly not. The first impression is an important one.
The first impression is an important one, yes. Starting ESO and finding out I was, yet again, a former prisoner with no ties to anyone or anything didn't sit very well with me. I might have even said to my husband, "Why do we always have to be a prisoner?" I also didn't like the Prophet or being called Vestige after I had put a lot of thought into my character name. The only reason I kept playing was so I could play the game with my husband, because I love playing video games with him. It wasn't the main quest that got me hooked; it was the zones and the stories within them. The Harbourage and the Prophet and that whole thing with the Amulet of Kings--those were kind of tiresome chores nagging at me to get them done.
If High Isle had been my first experience with the game, would I have liked it? Hard to say, because I wouldn't have had the previous parts of the game to compare it against. The setting is certainly lovely, and there are some interesting side quests, plus cool companions. Difficult to evaluate the main quest, though, since it kind of depends on people having experienced other chapters first, or at least the full base game, despite the whole 'play in any order you want' idea.I actually don't see a whole lot of game ads anywhere. I do remember an old Rift ad where the tag line, "You're not in Azeroth anymore." That was a video game promoting that, whatever they were, it wasn't WoW, which I thought was a strange choice.
I do come across video game ads on Youtube and Reddit (if I take a look at the latter, irregularly), but most aren't really interesting, to be honest. It's often some "cool" flashy effects instead of anything meaningful, so of course it doesn't appeal to me. Not saying that to be snobby, but because "cool" visuals without any story background genuinely don't catch my attention/interest. No meaning = boring. That's the simple truth for me.
I don't see ads, but I do watch the State of Play presentations with my husband (I think that's playstation, but it might be xbox). They show trailers for upcoming games and then talk about them a bit. A lot of them look very same-y to me, and not what I prefer. Visually very interesting, though.
Pfft, I know the spore horse was the ultimate practical joke the Telvanni pulled on all of Tamriel.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't recall crown crate items being so bugged before; it's really unfortunate that has happened. I'm really hoping ZOS has figured out a release cadence for quests going forward that allows them more time to do quality control checks--or respond to issues brought up on PTS.
I don't think most new cosmetics show up on pts (I honestly don't know for sure, as I usually don't pay attention to them)? On the one hand, I understand they might want to keep these things a bit of a surprise, but on the other hand, pts testing might also be helpful to avoid problems with those items. Then again, pts isn't the only form of bug testing and quality control.I still think it's something that didn't really need an explanation. People don't seem to wonder why everyone doesn't just travel by mage portal, and we haven't gotten any convoluted reasons for why the average person instead just takes a cart or horse or walks.
I can still remember ESO lore where it was said that opening portals was rather complicated and needed great magical skills. In the Aldmeri Dominion storyline it was, with that Bosmer portal expert (Also, according to lore, the Mages Guild has portalling experts - if it was so simple, why would they need expert for that?). Of course, a lot of things have changed within the last decade, and now everyone and their dog seems to be randomly opening portals. Or summoning dolmens. Though that's still limited to player characters, at least.
I know there's a whole thread about that, but I wished there was more congruency in the world somehow. Does it make sense if it feels like so many people can use the most complicated spells? Someone opening a portal surely felt more "magical" and special when it was treated as a complicated thing by the story writing. If special things become mundane, they lose their shine.You can skip the Coldharbour intro when you first make a character, yes. You can create a character, hit the 'skip tutorial' button, and it'll plop you on whatever starter island belongs to your alliance. Then you can adventure in the starter islands like a normal person (though the whole "you just washed up out of the sea!" story bit is still there)
Hm. So you end up at the shore, and then, when you finally get abducted to Coldharbor and are able to flee, you get washed up at the shore a second time?and then the second you get near the first city for your alliance, the main quest gets shoved in your log with the "mysterious benefactor" quest. If you choose to believe the strange hooded cultist who says their benefactor wants to give you gifts, you go to meet this benefactor and are ambushed.
I always found this a little strange. Who would not be suspicious in that situation?Then you get the whole cut-scene with being executed by our pal Mannimarco
Which is a special honor, you know. He doesn't sacrifice all those people himself. There are 45 dark anchors permanently active, and at each of them, a person is sacrificed every 5 minutes. So that's 12960 people a day (where ever they might be coming from - maybe they recycle). Which year is it now?Lol, well considering how ineffective they are in general, I think that tracks.
Actually, the whole justice system doesn't work anymore. There are too many ways to easily avoid guards, be it just by fast-travel to houses. Would a rework make sense? I don't know. I have the impression many people like it the way it is - being able to steal who knows what without any real risk. Which sometimes make me wonder why there's even a justice system anymore, but, well, I hope it remains for flavor, at least.They probably all have the same drop inventory, true, but it would still be cool to get some different bounty posters.
Then again, furniture also drops different items in some zones, so who knows, maybe they could also adjust the guard inventories accordingly. In any way, more bounty posters were a nice addition, especially about specific characters instead of the generic ones we have right now (or more precisely in addition to them; I don't want to see the old ones gone, either, obviously).Don't you already have a Bosmer?
I own several!Isn't he already set up to be your heir?
Why would he? I don't intend to die.As for why you'd need one: to stage your glorious comeback, of course! Just don't treat your Bosmer as badly as Mannimarco treated Wormblood; that would just be mean.
No need to worry. I'm generally friendly towards Bosmer (in fact, being Bosmer can be life-saving sometimes).Well, considering how well the conventional stories have been received, it couldn't be any worse trying for something unconventional, or so it seems to me.
Didn't they say they want to try more experimental things? I'd also like to see that for writing/story-telling. Not only the methods to tell stories (methods as in: dialogue, lorebooks, environmental storytelling, or antiquities telling small stories, for example), but also the way the stories go. Basically the absolute opposite to the formulaic "evil baddie wants to end the world, brave hero ends him" writing of last year.I think they did try something a little like that with the Ascendant Lord--morally grey, you could agree with some of the points he was making, and so forth--but in the end they gave us megalomaniacal villain.
How he turned out in the end was the big problem. Instead of remaining an interesting character, he ended up being like most other villains, and quite clichéd at that.At any rate, I'm here for unconventional story telling, and even if, in the end, it didn't quite suit me, I'd still be glad to have experienced it.
For sure! I value interesting attempts, even if the outcome might not be perfect. Sometimes, it's the thought or the intention that counts, or even just the fact that I see someone did something out of conviction for it (not sure if everyone understands that mindset, but I also give people on these forums an "awesome" sometimes despite disagreeing with them, if I see them passionately and skillfully proving their point). In case of writing that means: I want to see love for the lore and for the fictional world. I want to see artistic intention instead of just going what might be popular or most marketable right now, or always the same formulaic stuff because of the possible idea of "etablished ways always work" (which might not even be true, because at some point it becomes stale).When I wrote "assuming it ever makes sense," I was referring to the setting and story as a whole, with the knowledge that liches are usually put into a story for a specific reason that doesn't get anywhere near romance. Basically, that was me doubting anyone would ever write a lich that fit into a romance.
I don't want a lich that fits a romance - I want a romance that fits a lichBut considering people love vampire romance, I honestly don't see what's fundamentally different between a lich and a vampire as far as that aspect goes. A lich companion could definitely work in ESO.
The problem might be that many people - I'm being realistic here - might like "vampire romance", but most of these seem to be far away from what vampirism actually meant. They're not thinking about romancing an undead creature sleeping in a coffin in the moldy soil of their homeland. They surely don't think about romancing Nosferatu, and probably not even about romancing Dracula. They basically want some youthful never-aging conventionally handsome Mr Sparklepants with some semi-tragic background. Well, not even tragic, but basically "Oh, he has dark desires, but he loves me so much I'm so special he's able to restrain himself for me!" - Did I get that right? In any way, this is not what I'd like to see in ESO if we ever get a companion who's a lich (or a vampire, obviously), with some optional companion romance some day. I don't want my character to be the savior making the lich/vampire a better person or something.
And most of all, I'd like to see something that closely relates to TES lore. Zerith-var's story was a wonderful example how to closely connect a companion to TES lore, and also how to use the companion system to establish and transport more, new lore on an existing topic. Even if Azandar is my favorite companion so far, from the writing alone, I found Zerith-var's story to be the absolute perfect example how a companion story should be set up and what it should include, lore-wise.
So, what would that mean for a vampire companion? I wouldn't want him to just be some vampire. I wouldn't want to see him lean into different popular modern media tropes about what vampirism allegedly is. I want to see him reflect what being a vampire in Tamriel means. Including the relevant daedra lore, if he has such a background, as a former cultist, for example, instead of just being some guy who was unfortunate enough to be bitten on an evening stroll (we know there are not only vampires of Molag Bal, or Lamae Bal, for also originating from Sanguine, for example - more on that would be interesting). And same would go for a lich, of course - I'd like to see what that means in Tamriel, and also the Tamrielic way of how he even ended up being one.Dumbing down is something that sadly does appear too frequently and it's an unfortunate approach. I don't know that I would characterize the use of the word 'tank' as dumbing down, though. I think that quest was meant to be a reference to the players, not necessarily the game world--a sort of tribute to the people who play the game and stick together, even though they sometimes have little snags along the way. Whether or not it should have been in the game like that is a different point of discussion, but I really don't think they used 'tank' because they thought the players wouldn't understand a different word. When I was playing the quest, I honestly didn't even register the use of it as out of place, because to me it was a story about a group of players.
There are different ways to interpret that whole questline, of course. In any way I'm wondering: If it's about the message - companionship despite struggle (or temporary misunderstandings or quarrels) - why did they need to make it so game-y? The message would have clearly also been understood by the players if it had been closer to the lore and the fictional world and how people actually live and interact in it. No need to make it that clear 4-person dungeon group. Well, actually they could have even included a healer and a bulky guy without making it stand out as "un-Tamrielic" so much.
It's not the first group of adventurers depicted in a TES game either. While not random fortune-seekers, I see a certain similarity in that situation where Almalexia, Nerevar, Vivec, Voryn Dagoth and Sil ventured to Red Mountain. And another example would be the original Companions in ESO.I was more concerned about the Sanguine aspect of the festival--there being no perceivable consequences to our choices.
The whole event truly just felt unfinished.However, when it comes to puzzles not being puzzles, or having npcs shout the answer at me before I even have a chance to look things over--that does come across as dumbing down, and I don't like it. I think they are putting some more puzzle like elements in with the rumors and favors system--at least I think they mentioned that--and wasn't there something about some of the Night Market quests being somewhat puzzle-like or puzzle-adjacent?
I hope so (and I really hope that "puzzle" is understood the way here that I understand it) and look forward to learning more about it in a stream soon, and to test the Night Market in about a month.I also want a return to quests with decision points that make me stop a moment and think about it. Click-through players are going to click-through no matter what's on screen, so why bother writing for them? Write for the people who care about character, story, and immersion--that's my "hot take" on it.
Yes, exactly. I also want to see some more complicated situations instead of simple messages. I also want more Tamriel-specific/lore-specific writing instead of generic things that could also take place at any other time or location.
If I could be confronted with the same situation tomorrow at the supermarket, I don't need to play a medieval fantasy game for that. The wonderful thing about fantasy fiction had always been that it made it possible to explore things that are different and not the real world. Things that go beyond the mundane everyday circus. Different worlds, cultures, societies, habits, morals. I don't want to play Average Joe's daily struggles, just with Joe having elven ears, being called Jovelas and living in Lillandril instead of Montreal, or Barcelona, or Brisbane, or Singapore (well, not that I wouldn't enjoy travelling to these locations in real life - but not in a medieval fantasy game). That would be horribly boring and unimaginative.The first impression is an important one, yes. Starting ESO and finding out I was, yet again, a former prisoner with no ties to anyone or anything didn't sit very well with me. I might have even said to my husband, "Why do we always have to be a prisoner?"
It's a TES game, so I honestly don't believe it will ever be different. Well, actually, there was one exception: In Daggerfall you were a former prisoner Also:
I also didn't like the Prophet or being called Vestige after I had put a lot of thought into my character name.
What term would you have prefered? I'm curious.It wasn't the main quest that got me hooked; it was the zones and the stories within them. The Harbourage and the Prophet and that whole thing with the Amulet of Kings--those were kind of tiresome chores nagging at me to get them done.
I enjoyed both. Playing through the main quest again last year (to prepare my Sixth House Dunmer for the Solstice story) made me notice again how I also really just enjoyed those dialogues with the main characters. Even if I might not like all of them that much, they were still well-written and I enjoyed the wording, the atmosphere as a whole. I can't speak for the English original, but the German localisation, including the German voice actors, was wonderful.If High Isle had been my first experience with the game, would I have liked it? Hard to say, because I wouldn't have had the previous parts of the game to compare it against. The setting is certainly lovely, and there are some interesting side quests, plus cool companions. Difficult to evaluate the main quest, though, since it kind of depends on people having experienced other chapters first, or at least the full base game, despite the whole 'play in any order you want' idea.
I found the general tone of that chapter off-putting. Of course not every quest was bad, I also enjoyed Isobel's story a lot, but the random flirting by different characters, and the clichéd depiction of some others,... Well, we already had that topic. If that had been my first ESO experience - or more precisely: if it had been the first release (since otherwise I would have probably looked around in other zones and found out I like the earlier ones better) - it would probably have me turn around and leave at the doorstep.
Now I forgot what else I wanted to write (also, I probably babbled enough for one post anyway). Well - have a vvardvark
Edited by Syldras on 29 March 2026 16:00@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still think it's something that didn't really need an explanation. People don't seem to wonder why everyone doesn't just travel by mage portal, and we haven't gotten any convoluted reasons for why the average person instead just takes a cart or horse or walks.
I can still remember ESO lore where it was said that opening portals was rather complicated and needed great magical skills. In the Aldmeri Dominion storyline it was, with that Bosmer portal expert (Also, according to lore, the Mages Guild has portalling experts - if it was so simple, why would they need expert for that?). Of course, a lot of things have changed within the last decade, and now everyone and their dog seems to be randomly opening portals. Or summoning dolmens. Though that's still limited to player characters, at least.
I know there's a whole thread about that, but I wished there was more congruency in the world somehow. Does it make sense if it feels like so many people can use the most complicated spells? Someone opening a portal surely felt more "magical" and special when it was treated as a complicated thing by the story writing. If special things become mundane, they lose their shine.
Often the casual use of portals is a convenience thing for quests that want you to go all over Tamriel. Instead of making the player travel to those places, the npc says, "Here, I'll open a portal for you." It makes sense that Vanus Galerion can open portals at whim. For the scribing questline, portal magic was Nahlia's one thing she could do magically, so she of course could just portal you anywhere. But those cases lose their special appeal when just anyone starts opening portals for the player. This has been happening as far back as base game. I just finished a quest on an alt in Auridon where, at the conclusion, someone shows up and opens a portal to Skywatch--someone who may or may not be a mage--they look like a First Auridon Marine. No special explanation, just, "Here, let me open a portal to Skywatch."You can skip the Coldharbour intro when you first make a character, yes. You can create a character, hit the 'skip tutorial' button, and it'll plop you on whatever starter island belongs to your alliance. Then you can adventure in the starter islands like a normal person (though the whole "you just washed up out of the sea!" story bit is still there)
Hm. So you end up at the shore, and then, when you finally get abducted to Coldharbor and are able to flee, you get washed up at the shore a second time?
From what I recall, yes. Like I said, it leads to some awkward and amusing moments.and then the second you get near the first city for your alliance, the main quest gets shoved in your log with the "mysterious benefactor" quest. If you choose to believe the strange hooded cultist who says their benefactor wants to give you gifts, you go to meet this benefactor and are ambushed.
I always found this a little strange. Who would not be suspicious in that situation?
The Vestige, of course! Hasn't it been proven over years of silly questions and 'what's happening again' lines that the Vestige is not that bright?Then you get the whole cut-scene with being executed by our pal Mannimarco
Which is a special honor, you know. He doesn't sacrifice all those people himself. There are 45 dark anchors permanently active, and at each of them, a person is sacrificed every 5 minutes. So that's 12960 people a day (where ever they might be coming from - maybe they recycle). Which year is it now?
You have to factor in all those times the sacrifice never gets made because the cultists get killed the second they poof into existence. No one's getting sacrificed in Auridon and Alik'r. Regardless of those complex calculations, however, yes it is quite an honor to have Mannimarco himself drive a dagger into your chest and extract your soul (before casually tossing the full soul gem aside).
Neither did Mannimarco, but that didn't stop him from setting up a secret heir.
Do you mean 'being Bosmer' in spirit, as in eating the flesh of your enemies? And that saves your life because otherwise you're out of food? Or do you mean 'being Bosmer' literally, like a transformation spell you might use to hide from your enemies, on those occasions they are too numerous to outright defeat?When I wrote "assuming it ever makes sense," I was referring to the setting and story as a whole, with the knowledge that liches are usually put into a story for a specific reason that doesn't get anywhere near romance. Basically, that was me doubting anyone would ever write a lich that fit into a romance.
I don't want a lich that fits a romance - I want a romance that fits a lich
Duly noted!But considering people love vampire romance, I honestly don't see what's fundamentally different between a lich and a vampire as far as that aspect goes. A lich companion could definitely work in ESO.
The problem might be that many people - I'm being realistic here - might like "vampire romance", but most of these seem to be far away from what vampirism actually meant. They're not thinking about romancing an undead creature sleeping in a coffin in the moldy soil of their homeland. They surely don't think about romancing Nosferatu, and probably not even about romancing Dracula. They basically want some youthful never-aging conventionally handsome Mr Sparklepants with some semi-tragic background. Well, not even tragic, but basically "Oh, he has dark desires, but he loves me so much I'm so special he's able to restrain himself for me!" - Did I get that right? In any way, this is not what I'd like to see in ESO if we ever get a companion who's a lich (or a vampire, obviously), with some optional companion romance some day. I don't want my character to be the savior making the lich/vampire a better person or something.
And most of all, I'd like to see something that closely relates to TES lore. Zerith-var's story was a wonderful example how to closely connect a companion to TES lore, and also how to use the companion system to establish and transport more, new lore on an existing topic. Even if Azandar is my favorite companion so far, from the writing alone, I found Zerith-var's story to be the absolute perfect example how a companion story should be set up and what it should include, lore-wise.
So, what would that mean for a vampire companion? I wouldn't want him to just be some vampire. I wouldn't want to see him lean into different popular modern media tropes about what vampirism allegedly is. I want to see him reflect what being a vampire in Tamriel means. Including the relevant daedra lore, if he has such a background, as a former cultist, for example, instead of just being some guy who was unfortunate enough to be bitten on an evening stroll (we know there are not only vampires of Molag Bal, or Lamae Bal, for also originating from Sanguine, for example - more on that would be interesting). And same would go for a lich, of course - I'd like to see what that means in Tamriel, and also the Tamrielic way of how he even ended up being one.
To be fair, I don't think ZOS has gone the route of making ESO vampires fit the tropes popular in other modern media. I've never played a vampire in ESO, so I don't know what that questline/experience looks like as far as lore goes, but the vampires we encounter in the world are not the sparkling type, or the brooding 'doing his best to overcome his desires because he's really actually a decent fellow' trope. Even the Ravenwatch vampires aren't tortured by their existence, even though they don't fully embrace the more grim and violent aspects of vampirism. They still subsist on human blood and still use their powers when necessary. So I do think ZOS could make a really good vampire companion with a good backstory and fully fitting into the lore. Whether or not I'd want anything to do with that companion is a different matter. I wasn't sure I'd like a necromancer companion, but then we got Zerith-var, and I love him.Dumbing down is something that sadly does appear too frequently and it's an unfortunate approach. I don't know that I would characterize the use of the word 'tank' as dumbing down, though. I think that quest was meant to be a reference to the players, not necessarily the game world--a sort of tribute to the people who play the game and stick together, even though they sometimes have little snags along the way. Whether or not it should have been in the game like that is a different point of discussion, but I really don't think they used 'tank' because they thought the players wouldn't understand a different word. When I was playing the quest, I honestly didn't even register the use of it as out of place, because to me it was a story about a group of players.
There are different ways to interpret that whole questline, of course. In any way I'm wondering: If it's about the message - companionship despite struggle (or temporary misunderstandings or quarrels) - why did they need to make it so game-y? The message would have clearly also been understood by the players if it had been closer to the lore and the fictional world and how people actually live and interact in it. No need to make it that clear 4-person dungeon group. Well, actually they could have even included a healer and a bulky guy without making it stand out as "un-Tamrielic" so much.
It's not the first group of adventurers depicted in a TES game either. While not random fortune-seekers, I see a certain similarity in that situation where Almalexia, Nerevar, Vivec, Voryn Dagoth and Sil ventured to Red Mountain. And another example would be the original Companions in ESO.
I think the point of the quest was for it to be an obvious reference to players--therefore, to be game-y. I actually liked it, but I understand why it didn't work for some people.
In all, I liked the Hearts Week event and quests associated with it; the only part I didn't care for was the Sanguine part. I really think Sanguine doesn't need to be shoe-horned into other festivals like he has been. I would have preferred if they left him out of the Hearts Week festival part of the event and instead given him his own questline separately. They could have even gone the route of having the player choose: participate in the Hearts Week festival or participate in Sanguine's Summoning Day Shenanigans. They could have even kept all the rewards exactly the same to keep people from worrying about missing out or fretting about choice (though really, I wouldn't even mind if the rewards were different, because I think choices should matter). And then, you know, when the next year rolled around, people could choose the other option and experience that story if they wanted. Would something like that even work in this day and age? Probably not.I also want a return to quests with decision points that make me stop a moment and think about it. Click-through players are going to click-through no matter what's on screen, so why bother writing for them? Write for the people who care about character, story, and immersion--that's my "hot take" on it.
Yes, exactly. I also want to see some more complicated situations instead of simple messages. I also want more Tamriel-specific/lore-specific writing instead of generic things that could also take place at any other time or location.
If I could be confronted with the same situation tomorrow at the supermarket, I don't need to play a medieval fantasy game for that. The wonderful thing about fantasy fiction had always been that it made it possible to explore things that are different and not the real world. Things that go beyond the mundane everyday circus. Different worlds, cultures, societies, habits, morals. I don't want to play Average Joe's daily struggles, just with Joe having elven ears, being called Jovelas and living in Lillandril instead of Montreal, or Barcelona, or Brisbane, or Singapore (well, not that I wouldn't enjoy travelling to these locations in real life - but not in a medieval fantasy game). That would be horribly boring and unimaginative.
Well, now I want to meet Jovelas. I get your point. I want them to lean into the Elder Scrolls universe, not just reference modern day issues or meme it up. Some of the themes will overlap, understandably, since larger themes that exist in our world can also be present in a fantasy world and still feel like they are of that fantasy world.The first impression is an important one, yes. Starting ESO and finding out I was, yet again, a former prisoner with no ties to anyone or anything didn't sit very well with me. I might have even said to my husband, "Why do we always have to be a prisoner?"
It's a TES game, so I honestly don't believe it will ever be different. Well, actually, there was one exception: In Daggerfall you were a former prisoner Also:
Well, philosophical musings aside, I find the prisoner theme to be stale.
Nothing.
I'm aware that our character names are never going to be used because all the lines are voiced. I'm also aware ZOS is always going to insert a name replacer such as 'Vestige' or 'mercenary' or 'comrade' or 'proxy' or 'outlander' or 'mainlander'. Using those terms once or twice is fine, but every time the npc talks to me? If someone is talking directly to me, constantly repeating my name (or name replacer, in this case) is weird and also kind of creepy. So yes, the prophet can call me Vestige at the beginning, because formal introductions weren't made and the game has to get across the point that my character is technically without a soul and so at that moment is only a scrap of their former self--that's fine. But for him to keep calling me Vestige long after we've known each other and worked together is rude and annoying to me.It wasn't the main quest that got me hooked; it was the zones and the stories within them. The Harbourage and the Prophet and that whole thing with the Amulet of Kings--those were kind of tiresome chores nagging at me to get them done.
I enjoyed both. Playing through the main quest again last year (to prepare my Sixth House Dunmer for the Solstice story) made me notice again how I also really just enjoyed those dialogues with the main characters. Even if I might not like all of them that much, they were still well-written and I enjoyed the wording, the atmosphere as a whole. I can't speak for the English original, but the German localisation, including the German voice actors, was wonderful.
Lyris and Sai were interesting enough characters and I absolutely love Abnur Tharn. It wasn't the dialogues with them that bothered me, and the voice acting was of course great. It was the pacing of the main quest, really. I don't know how it was at the beginning, but by the time I started playing, there was no gap between the quests. You'd finish one, the Prophet would say, "I need time to do (whatever)." You'd leave the Harborage. The Prophet's projection (or Abnur's scamp) would immediately pop up saying, "Get back here, Vestige, we have work to do." And my reaction would be, "Dude, give me a break. I'm trying to stop the Covenant from destroying Stonefalls, and there's this whole Balreth thing going on also." (Or thwart a civil war in Auridon, or deal with a zombie infestation and werewolf situation in Glenumbra). Basically, it was just pulling me away from the content I found very immersive and interesting and sending me chasing after some McGuffin because of a world-ending threat. World-ending threats are...not my favorite.If High Isle had been my first experience with the game, would I have liked it? Hard to say, because I wouldn't have had the previous parts of the game to compare it against. The setting is certainly lovely, and there are some interesting side quests, plus cool companions. Difficult to evaluate the main quest, though, since it kind of depends on people having experienced other chapters first, or at least the full base game, despite the whole 'play in any order you want' idea.
I found the general tone of that chapter off-putting. Of course not every quest was bad, I also enjoyed Isobel's story a lot, but the random flirting by different characters, and the clichéd depiction of some others,... Well, we already had that topic. If that had been my first ESO experience - or more precisely: if it had been the first release (since otherwise I would have probably looked around in other zones and found out I like the earlier ones better) - it would probably have me turn around and leave at the doorstep.
I know Jakarn was flirting a lot. And I know Lady Arabelle's dialogue could seem like flirting. Who else flirted? It's been awhile since I've done High Isle--it's not high on my replay list--and so I don't recall all the details of it. I thought the druid lore was interesting and I do wish getting the leaders gathered for peace talks actually led to anything. Even learning Tales of Tribute was fun enough--though I didn't stick with the game for very long. The main quest wasn't great, and the central 'mystery' of the Ascendant Lord fell pretty flat, and for being some super detective, Lady Arabelle actually seemed quite dim-witted. Hmm, now I wonder if I should take some character through it again. Sometimes I warm up to a story more the second time through; sometimes I don't.Now I forgot what else I wanted to write (also, I probably babbled enough for one post anyway). Well - have a vvardvark
What is going on in that screenshot? That poor little Vvardvark! How did you even pick it up? More Telvanni tricks?0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Often the casual use of portals is a convenience thing for quests that want you to go all over Tamriel. Instead of making the player travel to those places, the npc says, "Here, I'll open a portal for you." It makes sense that Vanus Galerion can open portals at whim. For the scribing questline, portal magic was Nahlia's one thing she could do magically, so she of course could just portal you anywhere. But those cases lose their special appeal when just anyone starts opening portals for the player. This has been happening as far back as base game. I just finished a quest on an alt in Auridon where, at the conclusion, someone shows up and opens a portal to Skywatch--someone who may or may not be a mage--they look like a First Auridon Marine. No special explanation, just, "Here, let me open a portal to Skywatch."
Indeed. Then again, perhaps we should be happy they open portals and don't just randomly summon a donkey that swims us to the mainland, or magically flies us to a different kingdom. And no, I don't want to see that; I really don't want to. And I don't want to see anyone summoning the four-armed Meridian horse for us, either.From what I recall, yes. Like I said, it leads to some awkward and amusing moments.
Though it actually wasn't bad storytelling if one followed it through - the way one ended up back somewhere in Tamriel, the introductions to the different regions and cultures through lorebooks directly where you start. I can see lots of care went into that, the planning, the design of the course of events, and also into bringing that conceptual idea to life, of course. For me, the start felt just right back then.The Vestige, of course! Hasn't it been proven over years of silly questions and 'what's happening again' lines that the Vestige is not that bright?
Which does bother me as that's not the concept I have for most of my characters - I mean, being that dense
It would actually be an interesting roleplay feature: To define your character (and their background) a bit more through certain descriptors, which could influence the way people treat you, or also the style of speech in dialogues. I'm aware of course that that's most probably too complex for ESO, where most npcs don't even react on your character's race. Or not anymore, at least - Dunmer had their extra dialogue on Vvardenfell, and Altmer on Summerset. I'd love to see that picked up again, at least!You have to factor in all those times the sacrifice never gets made because the cultists get killed the second they poof into existence. No one's getting sacrificed in Auridon and Alik'r.
I think the sacrifice animation still plays, even if the cultists are dead within one second. It's actually interesting visuals. The whole dolmen design. It was spectacular when you first saw it. Harrowstorms were even eerier (well, I told you about that strange event in the high mountains). Geysirs - to me, not so much. Though that might also be partially to the more idyllic surroundings on Summerset. Now we could put up some rating about the most interesting world events.Regardless of those complex calculations, however, yes it is quite an honor to have Mannimarco himself drive a dagger into your chest and extract your soul (before casually tossing the full soul gem aside).
What's worse: That, or getting a letter stuffed into your mouth by one of his skeletal servants? I mean, the letter didn't kill you - but the whole gesture was rather unelegant, and impersonal on top of that
I do wonder though how we even ended up there. I know, we can just make that up. Or headcanon the whole event.Neither did Mannimarco, but that didn't stop him from setting up a secret heir.
Or maybe he didn't, but Solstice was just some weird, bad dreamDo you mean 'being Bosmer' in spirit, as in eating the flesh of your enemies? And that saves your life because otherwise you're out of food? Or do you mean 'being Bosmer' literally, like a transformation spell you might use to hide from your enemies, on those occasions they are too numerous to outright defeat?
I meant that it was beneficial to be a Bosmer when coming across me. If I find, say, a Bosmer and a Breton in front of my tower, who might be more likely to particpate in my next experiment? You know, like back then when I used that catapult to..., well, never mind.To be fair, I don't think ZOS has gone the route of making ESO vampires fit the tropes popular in other modern media. I've never played a vampire in ESO, so I don't know what that questline/experience looks like as far as lore goes, but the vampires we encounter in the world are not the sparkling type, or the brooding 'doing his best to overcome his desires because he's really actually a decent fellow' trope. Even the Ravenwatch vampires aren't tortured by their existence, even though they don't fully embrace the more grim and violent aspects of vampirism. They still subsist on human blood and still use their powers when necessary. So I do think ZOS could make a really good vampire companion with a good backstory and fully fitting into the lore.
Oh, the vampires we've seen in ESO so far were okay (and you know I enjoy coming across Fennorian a lot). We never know what the future might bring, though. We had some meme-y content last year, so who knows if the popular modern "vampire" media trope might not also become a thing in form of one specific character in ESO one day? I hope not, of course! There's so much interesting lore in ESO on the topic of vampirism, there's no need to draw from other popular modern "vampire" media instead (you see I'm reluctant to even call those characters "vampires" ).
In general I'd rather not see too much inspiration coming from popular movie stuff and similar. I see not everything can be based on Romanticist novels from the early/mid 19th century (I still see a certain similarity between the Tel Dreloth quest on Telvanni Peninsula and Nathaniel Hawthorne's Rappaccini's Daughter), but seriously, I think looking into older narrations could give the stories a certain depth, which seems to be exactly what many story- and lore-focused players are missing in ESO lately.
Just because a narration is 200 years old (or even older - look at ancient tragedies that are still evoking emotions in people today) doesn't mean it was bad, or obsolete, or incomprehensible to the average player today. In fact, some of the quests that were seen as outstanding within the past few years in ESO, were closer in style to historical narrations than to most mainstream-popular movies right now (and yes, I'm aware they're not all superficial, bland nonsense with lots of explosions, and that there are a few exceptions). Take Corelanya Manor, for example - that's also very closely in style to a Romanticist novel (though I couldn't remember yet what the inspiration might have been), there's a clear stylistic similarity to the Tel Dreloth quest, too. I'd really be surprised if it wasn't the same writer.
Now, if this writer would write a vampire or lich companion,... I'd have no doubts the result would be extraordinary!In all, I liked the Hearts Week event and quests associated with it; the only part I didn't care for was the Sanguine part. I really think Sanguine doesn't need to be shoe-horned into other festivals like he has been. I would have preferred if they left him out of the Hearts Week festival part of the event and instead given him his own questline separately. They could have even gone the route of having the player choose: participate in the Hearts Week festival or participate in Sanguine's Summoning Day Shenanigans. They could have even kept all the rewards exactly the same to keep people from worrying about missing out or fretting about choice (though really, I wouldn't even mind if the rewards were different, because I think choices should matter). And then, you know, when the next year rolled around, people could choose the other option and experience that story if they wanted. Would something like that even work in this day and age? Probably not.
I think seperate questlines would have been a good idea. Not even necessarily exclusive, I think, but the player could also get the choice to participate in both, if they liked.Well, now I want to meet Jovelas.
You could just imagine himI get your point. I want them to lean into the Elder Scrolls universe, not just reference modern day issues or meme it up. Some of the themes will overlap, understandably, since larger themes that exist in our world can also be present in a fantasy world and still feel like they are of that fantasy world.
Sure, there are overlaps, and there are topics that are universal for mankind, no matter which era and culture. There are anthropological constants, after all, the very nature of the human experience, and these bring up specific topics, specific wishes, needs, and also conflicts related to these. I have nothing against these also showing up in Tamriel, of course.
Having things come up in stories that feel out of place for Tamriel - that's the problem. Stories that are supposed to take place in a specific Tamrielic culture, but don't take this culture's norms and perspective into consideration. Or if there's a quest closely relating to some current media topic and it's depicted as a lesson. Let alone if it's a topic that's not internationally present, so players from around the world might not all really see the parallels, and then the whole thing might just feel completely off, weird and unfitting for Tamriel. Same goes for memes, of course, that lots of people might just not know, so the only impression when coming across them in ESO is: "weird".
I'm aware of course, that TES games always had "easter eggs" refering to sometimes obscure or internationally not well-known media, but an easter egg is a small thing on the side, that people will either notice or not, and either way, it's no big deal. Having a meme becoming the central part of a story is a different thing, and won't work that well. And not only because it might not be internationally understood, but also because most memes don't last for long, so in a few years no one will understand what it's about anymore. Which is rather counterproductive if one plans that content to remain in game for the whole lifetime of ESO, which hopefully is many years.Well, philosophical musings aside, I find the prisoner theme to be stale.
I don't mind it that much, but I also wouldn't have a problem with a different background. At best a choice of different backgrounds, because I'm not a huge fan of rpgs clearly defining our background for us either.Lyris and Sai were interesting enough characters and I absolutely love Abnur Tharn. It wasn't the dialogues with them that bothered me, and the voice acting was of course great. It was the pacing of the main quest, really. I don't know how it was at the beginning, but by the time I started playing, there was no gap between the quests. You'd finish one, the Prophet would say, "I need time to do (whatever)." You'd leave the Harborage. The Prophet's projection (or Abnur's scamp) would immediately pop up saying, "Get back here, Vestige, we have work to do." And my reaction would be, "Dude, give me a break. I'm trying to stop the Covenant from destroying Stonefalls, and there's this whole Balreth thing going on also." (Or thwart a civil war in Auridon, or deal with a zombie infestation and werewolf situation in Glenumbra). Basically, it was just pulling me away from the content I found very immersive and interesting and sending me chasing after some McGuffin because of a world-ending threat. World-ending threats are...not my favorite.
This was indeed still a bit different when I played my first character in early 2016. Worked better, narratively, clearly.I know Jakarn was flirting a lot. And I know Lady Arabelle's dialogue could seem like flirting. Who else flirted? It's been awhile since I've done High Isle--it's not high on my replay list--and so I don't recall all the details of it.
Right now, I also remember some random woman at the harbor in the East directly annoying me with innuendo (or a direct invitation to her bed or something like that), and there was also that weird druid artifact quest. And there was more, but I don't remember details at the moment - I only played High Isle on my main when it released, with no intention to ever replay it. For me, it was the worst chapter so far.I thought the druid lore was interesting and I do wish getting the leaders gathered for peace talks actually led to anything.
Yes, I had also hoped that it would have some consequence. Any, really. Not leading to nothing at all.Even learning Tales of Tribute was fun enough--though I didn't stick with the game for very long.
I didn't even finish the questline, I think. Or did I, just for the sake of completion? Probably, but that's also something my mind didn't find worth remembering. I'm not against card games in general - I absolutely loved TES Legends, as you know - , but that particular one... I personally found it boring. Also, that Bosmer was a bit weird. Several of the card player npcs, actually. At least in the German localization; I even believe some voice lines were removed or rewritten later, because some of these npcs seemed to have a real gambling problem... At least they sounded off-puttingly obsessive about the card game.The main quest wasn't great, and the central 'mystery' of the Ascendant Lord fell pretty flat, and for being some super detective, Lady Arabelle actually seemed quite dim-witted.
Yeah, it always comes across as a little strange if a character is portrayed as super smart, but then... doesn't really behave like that.What is going on in that screenshot? That poor little Vvardvark! How did you even pick it up? More Telvanni tricks?
Well, obviously I'm pulling a vvardvark out of my vvardvark generator! Or how else did you think are they created?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭From what I recall, yes. Like I said, it leads to some awkward and amusing moments.
Though it actually wasn't bad storytelling if one followed it through - the way one ended up back somewhere in Tamriel, the introductions to the different regions and cultures through lorebooks directly where you start. I can see lots of care went into that, the planning, the design of the course of events, and also into bringing that conceptual idea to life, of course. For me, the start felt just right back then.
I think the story works really well overall if you start with the Coldharbour tutorial and end up on your alliance's island(s) and then go into the zones on the continent. There's just a few oddities if you choose 'skip tutorial' instead. It's a bit odd that you end up having to go back and do the tutorial regardless--but it is so entwined with the main quest I don't know that there's a way to actually, truly skip it.The Vestige, of course! Hasn't it been proven over years of silly questions and 'what's happening again' lines that the Vestige is not that bright?
Which does bother me as that's not the concept I have for most of my characters - I mean, being that dense
It would actually be an interesting roleplay feature: To define your character (and their background) a bit more through certain descriptors, which could influence the way people treat you, or also the style of speech in dialogues. I'm aware of course that that's most probably too complex for ESO, where most npcs don't even react on your character's race. Or not anymore, at least - Dunmer had their extra dialogue on Vvardenfell, and Altmer on Summerset. I'd love to see that picked up again, at least!
It would be nice to have a feature that lets you better define your character's background, particularly if that played into npc perceptions of you. They do have something like that for vampires, I understand--where some npcs won't even interact with you if are at a certain stage of vampirism. I don't know from experience; it's just something I've seen mentioned. It's too bad it's not a more robust system that pertains to more facets of the player's character.You have to factor in all those times the sacrifice never gets made because the cultists get killed the second they poof into existence. No one's getting sacrificed in Auridon and Alik'r.
I think the sacrifice animation still plays, even if the cultists are dead within one second. It's actually interesting visuals. The whole dolmen design. It was spectacular when you first saw it. Harrowstorms were even eerier (well, I told you about that strange event in the high mountains). Geysirs - to me, not so much. Though that might also be partially to the more idyllic surroundings on Summerset. Now we could put up some rating about the most interesting world events.
I don't think the sacrifice animation does play; I'll have to check next time I'm at a dolmen and kill the cultists before they have a chance to say, "Bring forth the sacrifice!" Dolmens used to frighten me--especially if they started and I was the only one there. Sure, these days I can solo them with ease, but back then...whew, I would run away. Harrowstorms are pretty eerie and even more dangerous. I always wish I could warn those people stopping to camp at them. Geysers do have a very different feel, because they're water-based and right on the coast and surrounded by brightness. Essentially those three are the same, though--waves of enemies until a final boss. Harrowstorms require a bit more coordination than the others. I think my least favorite are the oblivion portals in Blackwood. I honestly don't know if I ever even did thirty of them for the achievement. Maybe by now I have.
Here's my ranking of the incursions.
1. Dolmens: I can solo them and I like the idea that I'm continuing to aggravate Molag Bal every time I close one and he says one of his lines.
2. Dragons: They're cool, they require paying attention, I could never solo one but there's usually people around to help. I do end up feeling kind of bad for killing them on repeat, though.
3. Geysers: I can usually solo these, and I like the setting and the idea that I'm thwarting Nocturnal.
4. Volcanic vents: Can't solo 'em, but they're pretty fun. I like the idea of of druids calming the island.
5. Harrowstorms: Again, not something I could solo, and they can quickly overwhelm a group that isn't coordinating very well, but they're an interesting lore point and they have a lot of atmosphere.
6. Mirrormoor invasions: Kind of meh. Too much running around. It's hard for me to see the arcing light that directs you to the place where you do the mini invasion that then activates the main one.
7. Oblivion portals and Solstice camps: tied for last place, because blah.
Not mentioned: Bastian Nymics, because I never stepped foot in one.Regardless of those complex calculations, however, yes it is quite an honor to have Mannimarco himself drive a dagger into your chest and extract your soul (before casually tossing the full soul gem aside).
What's worse: That, or getting a letter stuffed into your mouth by one of his skeletal servants? I mean, the letter didn't kill you - but the whole gesture was rather unelegant, and impersonal on top of that
I do wonder though how we even ended up there. I know, we can just make that up. Or headcanon the whole event.
I'd take a letter shoved in my mouth by a skeleton over getting killed for my soul and thrown on a trash heap. Some things are a little too personal.
Well, I guess the hooded stranger quest does give a scenario for how you ended up there: ambushed and bonked on the back of the head. I always found it odd that if you go directly into the tutorial after character creation you don't get that little cut-scene of Mannimarco stabbing you. Did that ever play in the beginning? Like back when the game first came out?
I'm sorry, but it was all real. Besides, explaining away entire seasons of plot because "it was all a dream" is so eighties television drama.Do you mean 'being Bosmer' in spirit, as in eating the flesh of your enemies? And that saves your life because otherwise you're out of food? Or do you mean 'being Bosmer' literally, like a transformation spell you might use to hide from your enemies, on those occasions they are too numerous to outright defeat?
I meant that it was beneficial to be a Bosmer when coming across me. If I find, say, a Bosmer and a Breton in front of my tower, who might be more likely to particpate in my next experiment? You know, like back then when I used that catapult to..., well, never mind.
Oh, I see! Yes, yes, I know how you tend to treat Bretons. *makes a note to warn Breton friends to stay away from Syldras*I get your point. I want them to lean into the Elder Scrolls universe, not just reference modern day issues or meme it up. Some of the themes will overlap, understandably, since larger themes that exist in our world can also be present in a fantasy world and still feel like they are of that fantasy world.
Sure, there are overlaps, and there are topics that are universal for mankind, no matter which era and culture. There are anthropological constants, after all, the very nature of the human experience, and these bring up specific topics, specific wishes, needs, and also conflicts related to these. I have nothing against these also showing up in Tamriel, of course.
Having things come up in stories that feel out of place for Tamriel - that's the problem. Stories that are supposed to take place in a specific Tamrielic culture, but don't take this culture's norms and perspective into consideration. Or if there's a quest closely relating to some current media topic and it's depicted as a lesson. Let alone if it's a topic that's not internationally present, so players from around the world might not all really see the parallels, and then the whole thing might just feel completely off, weird and unfitting for Tamriel. Same goes for memes, of course, that lots of people might just not know, so the only impression when coming across them in ESO is: "weird".
I'm aware of course, that TES games always had "easter eggs" refering to sometimes obscure or internationally not well-known media, but an easter egg is a small thing on the side, that people will either notice or not, and either way, it's no big deal. Having a meme becoming the central part of a story is a different thing, and won't work that well. And not only because it might not be internationally understood, but also because most memes don't last for long, so in a few years no one will understand what it's about anymore. Which is rather counterproductive if one plans that content to remain in game for the whole lifetime of ESO, which hopefully is many years.
I don't have a problem with a few easter eggs here and there--many games do that. Memes, though...well, they're better left to burn bright and fade quickly on the internet, where they can't hurt the integrity of a game world.I know Jakarn was flirting a lot. And I know Lady Arabelle's dialogue could seem like flirting. Who else flirted? It's been awhile since I've done High Isle--it's not high on my replay list--and so I don't recall all the details of it.
Right now, I also remember some random woman at the harbor in the East directly annoying me with innuendo (or a direct invitation to her bed or something like that), and there was also that weird druid artifact quest. And there was more, but I don't remember details at the moment - I only played High Isle on my main when it released, with no intention to ever replay it. For me, it was the worst chapter so far.
I think I liked Blackwood least, but I forgive it for a lot because it gave me Bastian. But I also really didn't care for Apocrypha and Mora--the Necrom and Dunmer aspect of that chapter felt overshadowed. I think I might send another character through High Isle, just so I can see what I think of it second time through. We'll see if I make it all the way through.
Could they end the war, do you think? I mean, would that narratively fit with the Elder Scrolls timeline? I'm not saying have one of the alliances win and become emperor or whatever, but have it end because it's a total stalemate. Or, heck, why not pick one of the alliances to win and install their leader as the emperor and see what stories come from that? Even having all three rule as a triumvirate would be preferable to forever war. How long is it before a new emperor comes along in the lore anyway?Even learning Tales of Tribute was fun enough--though I didn't stick with the game for very long.
I didn't even finish the questline, I think. Or did I, just for the sake of completion? Probably, but that's also something my mind didn't find worth remembering. I'm not against card games in general - I absolutely loved TES Legends, as you know - , but that particular one... I personally found it boring. Also, that Bosmer was a bit weird. Several of the card player npcs, actually. At least in the German localization; I even believe some voice lines were removed or rewritten later, because some of these npcs seemed to have a real gambling problem... At least they sounded off-puttingly obsessive about the card game.
I don't recall anyone sounding obsessive about it. Eager, yes, and wanting to play a lot. But then again, it's been awhile since I went through that quest. I thought it was pretty fun, actually, though I only ever played against npcs. The reason I didn't keep up with it is down to one main thing: I'm not a collector. I'm not going to chase down decks, or deck fragments, or card upgrades, or whatever else you have to do to keep current in that game. I didn't get very far in the ranking system with the club, because I didn't really care that much about it--mostly I just liked to play a game here and there. But I haven't touched it in a long time.
I...never thought about it. I assumed they breeded with other vvardvarks. Do they not? *sighs and shakes head* Telvanni.0 -
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✭✭✭✭✭It would be nice to have a feature that lets you better define your character's background, particularly if that played into npc perceptions of you. They do have something like that for vampires, I understand--where some npcs won't even interact with you if are at a certain stage of vampirism. I don't know from experience; it's just something I've seen mentioned. It's too bad it's not a more robust system that pertains to more facets of the player's character.
Apart from specific traits to assign to a player character, I've been wondering if it wouldn't also be nice (though I'm aware it's much too late to introduce that) to be able to choose the starting tutorial as a kind of character background story - though I'm aware that that would be limited to some "prisoner" background again, of course. But honestly, I miss them, and it's such a pity they're just gone, after the care that went into them. I particularly remember the one for Greymoor - a nice start, an interesting introduction to Fennorian as a character, and while the starter video was very obviously done for nostalgia reasons, it fit. Very atmospheric, and mirroring the whole theme of that year quite well.
So, even if it doesn't make any real differences on how a character is treated in the world, I'd honestly love to see the old tutorials again - as a choice after character creation. And while we're at it: I'd also love to see an option to choose the background picture on the character selection screen. Not that I dislike the current one, but variety is always nice, and I'd love to assign specific ones to characters, that I feel fit them most. I also liked the original Auridon one, the one from Telvanni Peninsula, the one from Western Skyrim. Also the Daggerfall Covenant, though I've barely ever seen it (I have one Breton character, but I rarely used him). I also liked the Coldharbor one so many people complained about last year I found it relaxing for my eyes.
What I never found fitting was my Dunmer having the Skyrim background back when the screens were Alliance-based. Later when they changed the screens to the current chapter location I was fine with it, but when it was somehow "home-based", but not actually depicting my character's home, it just felt dissonant somehow. It might really be just a minor design thing, but for me, even that is a bit that adds - or goes against - the feel or atmosphere as a whole.Here's my ranking of the incursions.
1. Dolmens: I can solo them and I like the idea that I'm continuing to aggravate Molag Bal every time I close one and he says one of his lines.
2. Dragons: They're cool, they require paying attention, I could never solo one but there's usually people around to help. I do end up feeling kind of bad for killing them on repeat, though.
3. Geysers: I can usually solo these, and I like the setting and the idea that I'm thwarting Nocturnal.
4. Volcanic vents: Can't solo 'em, but they're pretty fun. I like the idea of of druids calming the island.
5. Harrowstorms: Again, not something I could solo, and they can quickly overwhelm a group that isn't coordinating very well, but they're an interesting lore point and they have a lot of atmosphere.
6. Mirrormoor invasions: Kind of meh. Too much running around. It's hard for me to see the arcing light that directs you to the place where you do the mini invasion that then activates the main one.
7. Oblivion portals and Solstice camps: tied for last place, because blah.
Not mentioned: Bastian Nymics, because I never stepped foot in one.
For me, the order would be completely different depending on what I'd rate them for: difficulty (from the easily soloable base game dolmens to world events that just get annoying and stressful if you try to get them done alone - I once fought a dragon with one random person who wasn't even level 10 yet, and who was dead most of the time anyway, it obviously took an eternity!), how interesting the mechanics and design are when it comes to playing them, and what I think of the design visually and narratively. And which ones I find most fun would be another thing - and that varies completely, for me, depending on current mood. So, just in order of their year of release:
Dark Anchors: Great design for the first world event. Impressive visuals and sound (though of course you get used to it over the years, so it loses that special feel over time, but that's normal). Fit the story perfectly. The enemy types were a good introduction, so to say, to Molag-Bal-related enemy types. Molag Bal's voice lines were also well-written (great voice actor, too, in German - can't remember the English one right now). I also liked that they scale to the number of players present. The reward chest also felt okay back when you started playing the game. As for the difficulty: Now, with a vet character, it's too easy, of course. But back then it fit. Of course, now, after a decade, there's barely a reason to do them anymore, but if I come across an active one, and there's only one or two low-level players, I usually help them.
Geysers: Calm atmosphere somehow, never felt really threatening. Interesting idea, still, though a bit more same-y then dolmens. What I disliked about them was that there was no order for them to start, but it was completely arbitrary. So it could happen that you waited at one for 20 minutes and it still didn't start.
Dragons: Good visuals. I also liked how the different landing points were all designed uniquely. Running after them to see where they land was fun the first few times, but turned rather annoying after a while. And if no one else is around, you can't really fight them (well, as I said above, you can - but it takes so long it's not fun), which is a problem in older zones. Maybe some damage and hp scaling would help. But generally, they tried something new, at least.
Harrowstorms: Another visually and acoustically impressive event, really eerie, and fit both the story and what it was supposed to be according to lore perfectly (I especially love the ones in Blackreach). I would even say they're my favorite world events, but there's again the problem that soloing them is too tedious and outside of chapter events you often don't see anyone around anymore.
Oblivion portals: I appreciate they tried something new, but somehow I usually didn't find a portal when I wanted to do one and often came across them when I actually wanted to do something else, which was a bit annoying. I was okay with the Deadlands map the portals led to and think it was an interesting attempt to recreate a bit of that TES4 Oblivion feel, though in a much smaller scope, of course. Even alone, you can defeat the enemies on your way to the Citadel - if you run fast enough, you can even run through before they even spawn. And in the end chamber, there are usually some people around, so the boss fight also usually functions well (at least that's my experience on PC EU). I see some people might be annoyed by the long path to the last chamber.
Volcanic vents: The boring version of a dolmen Really, I found them boring somehow. As small as the original dolmens (or even smaller?), with much less interesting visuals (thinking more about it, it's actually fascinating how atmospheric the original dolmens were despite taking so little space on the map). Also the babbling of the druid at the end - always the very same lines - gets annoying if you do those vents repeatedly to grind some lead. More variety, as with the original dolmen lines, would have improved it. I didn't do them for a while, but I remember they dropped lots of stuff, at least? Or maybe it was just lots of clutter.
Bastion Nymic: Yeah, those might have a nice design visually (from screenshots I'd say basically like the Archive levels, but with a few more eye-catching details at some locations), but they somehow fail as a world event, from my point of view. For me, the very aspect that makes a world event interesting is that it needs no grouping and you can just clear it with random other people who can join anytime. Bastion Nymic needs you to group (unless something changed). That's the reason I've never cleared one yet. Maybe I'll try to solo one one day - not sure if that's possible? Or perhaps I might group once if there's a zone event again, just to get it done. But it's surely nothing I'll do regularly, because of the grouping. I wonder how many people didn't do those for this very reason, and how popular they are right now, several years after the zone was released. Some evenings ago, I saw someone searching for other people to join them for a longer time, without enough people showing interest, it seemed. Making them open to join for everyone - like the Oblivion portals - might help.
Mirrormoor invasions: Another thing with interesting visuals, stretching over a bigger area. But while I like the overall idea and the visuals, I also find it hard to see the mini bosses sometimes. Also, it takes quite a while until the main thing spawns, and the numbers of players around is already dropping right now. Probably another thing that will be deserted soon, with no way to clear it decently because of not enough players around.
Worm Cult camps: Right when the Wall event started (or at least those camps started), I actually found them fun. Though I hadn't done any incursions for a longer time before that. I prefered the one right next to the Stirk Fellowship main camp, as you had a wayshrine close by and could keep a look on the incursion it while doing other stuff in the Stirk camp, when those quests were still active. I liked the different bosses, though they got repetative after a while (but maybe I just ran too many of those incursions during that much too long event). Well, in the end, it was just another dolmen, close to the original one, with less impresive visuals. And now I never see any people around, of course, when I walk past one, so it's another thing left deserted, because it doesn't work for solo or duo players. I wonder why it doesn't scale like the original dolmens? There's really a need to counter the problem of having too little players around in old zones.
So, thinking about it, if I had to rate them...
Dark Anchors (seems the classic is still the best in terms of design - maybe sometimes making completion requirements more complicated is not always the best solution)
Harrowstorms
Geysers
Oblivion Portals
Dragons
Mirrormoor invasions
Worm Cult camps
Volcanic vents
Bastion Nymic
Actually it's not even so much just about what has the most awesome aspects, but the thing that basically lowers an incursion type on this ranking list is the amount of tedious factors related to completing it. Bastion Nymic would be higher without the forced grouping, Harrowstorms would be before Dark Anchors if they'd scale and you could do them alone or with only another player or two around.Well, I guess the hooded stranger quest does give a scenario for how you ended up there: ambushed and bonked on the back of the head.
That only applies to people who are that naive to follow the hooded figure. Obviously, my Telvanni main never fell for that (I have my own theories how he ended up there, and there's no proof it had been any different, as it happened off-screen for me.)I always found it odd that if you go directly into the tutorial after character creation you don't get that little cut-scene of Mannimarco stabbing you. Did that ever play in the beginning? Like back when the game first came out?
I think it was originally basically treated as the chapter introduction video, so it only played when you first started the game (or created the first character?). Same with all other chapter tutorial videos - they only showed once. Which I thought was a rather strange design. You could replay them somewhere in the menu, though. Actually all those videos of all previous chapters were still in the game data until a more or less recent change (when they got back to the Coldharbor tutorial, I think). There was actually a small mod that added the option to replay any of them to the menu. I actually downloaded that mod just to watch all of them one last time, before they vanished for good (though I think they're probably also somewhere on Youtube - I would be surprised, if not).I'm sorry, but it was all real. Besides, explaining away entire seasons of plot because "it was all a dream" is so eighties television drama.
Okay, so no dream. A hallucination perhaps? Or maybe my character got whacked on the head a few time too often?Oh, I see! Yes, yes, I know how you tend to treat Bretons. *makes a note to warn Breton friends to stay away from Syldras*
Do you happen to have any Khajiit friends who might be interested in participating in a fascinating study? I've been browsing some old tomes in a bookstore in Windhelm some weeks ago and found an interesting experimental instruction in one of them. Really want to test it.
But I also really didn't care for Apocrypha and Mora--the Necrom and Dunmer aspect of that chapter felt overshadowed.
They could have made more of it being a Telvanni region. Also, I found it sad that there was no Indoril and Temple lore, and nothing deeper on Dunmer (funerary) traditions, despite having the city of Necrom, which would have been the perfect location for that.Could they end the war, do you think? I mean, would that narratively fit with the Elder Scrolls timeline? I'm not saying have one of the alliances win and become emperor or whatever, but have it end because it's a total stalemate. Or, heck, why not pick one of the alliances to win and install their leader as the emperor and see what stories come from that? Even having all three rule as a triumvirate would be preferable to forever war. How long is it before a new emperor comes along in the lore anyway?
Lorewise, they could absolutely do it. I actually wondered for a while if they could try to replace PvP Cyrodiil with some other setting (I have no opinion on that, and I don't want to make any judgement as I don't have the necessary knowledge about PvP in ESO), or keep it, but still let the story and history progress. That war going on without an end isn't exactly exciting; most of all, I'm, too, thinking about potential stories that could be told if it ended, and interesting things that could be done with those locations that currently lie in the war zone.I...never thought about it. I assumed they breeded with other vvardvarks. Do they not? *sighs and shakes head* Telvanni.
How would they? They'd fall over. So we just use our cloning devices to clone them. That's our House's generous gift to Tamriel.
(And in case you still wonder about the screenshot: There's an emote where the player character actually pulls a vvardvark from a hat. I didn't buy it, because I rarely use any emotes anyway - not sure when I'd have the occasion - but I found it so strange I just had to take a screenshot of the crown store preview).
Ah, yes, different and unrelated topic (unrelated to vvardvarks, that is - though, no, not entirely): On which ESO characters would you like to see more background lore? Not only through lorebooks, but also through dialogue in new quests involving them, for example.
How that's related to vvardvarks? Well, I think it could actually be fun to come across the Telvanni who created the first one. Since I first read his scholarly writings on chimeras, I'd really like to talk to him.
In general, I think it could be interesting to meet some characters who have authored some lorebook, or people whom we've only read about in a lorebook yet. Could be interesting to see how much they actually match their description in that book - or how they could be completely different in "reality", showing a clear bias on the lorebook's fictional author's side. I think it could be interesting to emphasize exactly that a bit more: That lorebooks are subjective accounts from fictional characters, and can be incorrect, subjectively colored/interpreted and shaped by a character's cultural upbringing, etc. Maybe I just want to teach people a lesson - too many uncritical readers also exist in the real world.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
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✭It would be nice to have a feature that lets you better define your character's background, particularly if that played into npc perceptions of you. They do have something like that for vampires, I understand--where some npcs won't even interact with you if are at a certain stage of vampirism. I don't know from experience; it's just something I've seen mentioned. It's too bad it's not a more robust system that pertains to more facets of the player's character.
Apart from specific traits to assign to a player character, I've been wondering if it wouldn't also be nice (though I'm aware it's much too late to introduce that) to be able to choose the starting tutorial as a kind of character background story - though I'm aware that that would be limited to some "prisoner" background again, of course. But honestly, I miss them, and it's such a pity they're just gone, after the care that went into them. I particularly remember the one for Greymoor - a nice start, an interesting introduction to Fennorian as a character, and while the starter video was very obviously done for nostalgia reasons, it fit. Very atmospheric, and mirroring the whole theme of that year quite well.
So, even if it doesn't make any real differences on how a character is treated in the world, I'd honestly love to see the old tutorials again - as a choice after character creation. And while we're at it: I'd also love to see an option to choose the background picture on the character selection screen. Not that I dislike the current one, but variety is always nice, and I'd love to assign specific ones to characters, that I feel fit them most. I also liked the original Auridon one, the one from Telvanni Peninsula, the one from Western Skyrim. Also the Daggerfall Covenant, though I've barely ever seen it (I have one Breton character, but I rarely used him). I also liked the Coldharbor one so many people complained about last year I found it relaxing for my eyes.
What I never found fitting was my Dunmer having the Skyrim background back when the screens were Alliance-based. Later when they changed the screens to the current chapter location I was fine with it, but when it was somehow "home-based", but not actually depicting my character's home, it just felt dissonant somehow. It might really be just a minor design thing, but for me, even that is a bit that adds - or goes against - the feel or atmosphere as a whole.
Selecting character background scenes is a pretty popular ask around the forums--I think there's even a thread about it currently. I think it would be nice to have, too, so you could match backgrounds to your characters as you saw fit. I'm all in favor of that idea.
I think it would be cool, too, to have those other tutorials available again, maybe even as a prologue of sorts for the chapter they were attached to. I don't think I ever experienced the Vvardenfell or Summerset ones, because I just didn't realize they were changing the tutorial with every chapter release. I thought it was the Coldharbour one, so I'd hit 'skip tutorial' because I'd seen it. I know the chapters already have their official prologue quests, and I have no complaint with those, but some link between those other tutorials and the chapters would be nice to have again.Well, I guess the hooded stranger quest does give a scenario for how you ended up there: ambushed and bonked on the back of the head.
That only applies to people who are that naive to follow the hooded figure. Obviously, my Telvanni main never fell for that (I have my own theories how he ended up there, and there's no proof it had been any different, as it happened off-screen for me.)
For my characters that didn't skip the tutorial but started in Coldharbour, I have various imagined stories for how it all happened to them. For the ones who believed the hooded figure, well, what can I say: they didn't really think things through.I always found it odd that if you go directly into the tutorial after character creation you don't get that little cut-scene of Mannimarco stabbing you. Did that ever play in the beginning? Like back when the game first came out?
I think it was originally basically treated as the chapter introduction video, so it only played when you first started the game (or created the first character?). Same with all other chapter tutorial videos - they only showed once. Which I thought was a rather strange design. You could replay them somewhere in the menu, though. Actually all those videos of all previous chapters were still in the game data until a more or less recent change (when they got back to the Coldharbor tutorial, I think). There was actually a small mod that added the option to replay any of them to the menu. I actually downloaded that mod just to watch all of them one last time, before they vanished for good (though I think they're probably also somewhere on Youtube - I would be surprised, if not).
I never saw it, not when I first started the game, not when I created my first character. I only saw it via the hooded stranger quest and the first time I did see it, I thought: wait, is this new? did they make this for this quest?
Not a hallucination either. As for how many times your character's been whacked on the head--that I cannot say. I would think more than once would be too many, but then I think the denizens of Tamriel are exceptionally hard-headed.Oh, I see! Yes, yes, I know how you tend to treat Bretons. *makes a note to warn Breton friends to stay away from Syldras*
Do you happen to have any Khajiit friends who might be interested in participating in a fascinating study? I've been browsing some old tomes in a bookstore in Windhelm some weeks ago and found an interesting experimental instruction in one of them. Really want to test it.
I'm not entirely sure what's going on in that graphic there, but I'm pretty sure it's mistreatment, possibly even abuse, so...nope, I don't have any Khajiit friends.But I also really didn't care for Apocrypha and Mora--the Necrom and Dunmer aspect of that chapter felt overshadowed.
They could have made more of it being a Telvanni region. Also, I found it sad that there was no Indoril and Temple lore, and nothing deeper on Dunmer (funerary) traditions, despite having the city of Necrom, which would have been the perfect location for that.
I really did expect to learn more about Dunmer traditions. I haven't gone through that chapter again yet, either, but I do have someone in mind for it. The problem is I have too many characters who have a lot of stories I want them to experience.Could they end the war, do you think? I mean, would that narratively fit with the Elder Scrolls timeline? I'm not saying have one of the alliances win and become emperor or whatever, but have it end because it's a total stalemate. Or, heck, why not pick one of the alliances to win and install their leader as the emperor and see what stories come from that? Even having all three rule as a triumvirate would be preferable to forever war. How long is it before a new emperor comes along in the lore anyway?
Lorewise, they could absolutely do it. I actually wondered for a while if they could try to replace PvP Cyrodiil with some other setting (I have no opinion on that, and I don't want to make any judgement as I don't have the necessary knowledge about PvP in ESO), or keep it, but still let the story and history progress. That war going on without an end isn't exactly exciting; most of all, I'm, too, thinking about potential stories that could be told if it ended, and interesting things that could be done with those locations that currently lie in the war zone.
I don't think they would, or should, ever replace PvP Cyrodiil, but they could make a copy of it, set after the war, that exists in the game at the same time, and then set story content in it. Whether they would do anything like that is another matter--and I can't say I know how well the technical side of it would work. I have done all the PvE content available in Cyrodiil, and it's such a massive zone that seems, on the whole, underutilized. Even the PvP parts take place in very specific areas most of the time. Even just a version of the Imperial City where the daedra aren't running amok and the alliances are fighting would be fun. A post-war reconstruction of the city with all the city things that go on. Abnur Tharn could come back and order us around again--that would be fun.
Why would they fall over? Actually, you know what, forget I asked. Thanks for the clones!Ah, yes, different and unrelated topic (unrelated to vvardvarks, that is - though, no, not entirely): On which ESO characters would you like to see more background lore? Not only through lorebooks, but also through dialogue in new quests involving them, for example.
How that's related to vvardvarks? Well, I think it could actually be fun to come across the Telvanni who created the first one. Since I first read his scholarly writings on chimeras, I'd really like to talk to him.
In general, I think it could be interesting to meet some characters who have authored some lorebook, or people whom we've only read about in a lorebook yet. Could be interesting to see how much they actually match their description in that book - or how they could be completely different in "reality", showing a clear bias on the lorebook's fictional author's side. I think it could be interesting to emphasize exactly that a bit more: That lorebooks are subjective accounts from fictional characters, and can be incorrect, subjectively colored/interpreted and shaped by a character's cultural upbringing, etc. Maybe I just want to teach people a lesson - too many uncritical readers also exist in the real world.
Which ESO characters would I like more lore on? All of them! More specifically, I'd like some background filled in on some of the major players. Like Razum-dar. How did he go from being a farm-raised Khajiit to adventuring with Ayrenn? What made her appoint him her foremost Eye? Also, are the Eyes an organization that existed before, or did Ayrenn create them? Or Naemon. When his and Ayrenn's father died, Ayrenn was nowhere to be found, so Naemon started the laborious process of becoming the next king of the Altmer. What was that like for him? I assume, being the younger of the two, he didn't exactly expect to become king, but for some amount of time (timeline, please!) it seemed he very much would. Or what about Mannimarco: how did he go from being an exiled former Psijic to silver-tongued court advisor? What steps along his path led him there, and how much was chance versus driving ambition? When did he first come up with this plan to become a god, and did he consider other pathways to it before settling on betraying and usurping Molag Bal?
I would like to meet some of the authors of the world, too. Is Carlovac Townway a current author? Does he exist in this time? I'd for sure like to meet him. I'd also like it if the two authors currently in the sewers (Phrastus of Elinhir and Lady Cinnabar of Taneth) had more dialogue lines when we talk to them. And I do want to meet the person who authored all the mount books we recently got: Fadus Falto.
I really liked that West Weald quest where we got an idea of what Fennorian's life was like before becoming a vampire. I'd love another quest or two with him, where we learn more about him, perhaps even how he became a vampire. A series of quests where we get to learn more about Vanus would be cool, too.
So, yeah...there's a lot more I want to know about many characters. If I listed them all here, this post would never end!0 -
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✭✭✭✭✭I think it would be cool, too, to have those other tutorials available again, maybe even as a prologue of sorts for the chapter they were attached to. I don't think I ever experienced the Vvardenfell or Summerset ones, because I just didn't realize they were changing the tutorial with every chapter release. I thought it was the Coldharbour one, so I'd hit 'skip tutorial' because I'd seen it. I know the chapters already have their official prologue quests, and I have no complaint with those, but some link between those other tutorials and the chapters would be nice to have again.
They would need to rewrite them a bit, though. Not sure if every player wants to repeat a basic tutorial, including practicing fighting basics, before starting every chapter. Only removing the tutorial pop-ups wouldn't help, as that combat training is an actual story part of many of these tutorial stories (at least I can remember it quite detailedly for both the Elsweyr as well as the Balfiera tutorial). Would be nice though, generally, if they made something of those little original stories and their locations. Or, as I said, let us choose a tutorial from the whole list when creating a new characters, at least.For my characters that didn't skip the tutorial but started in Coldharbour, I have various imagined stories for how it all happened to them.
How many of them met Mannimarco in person, and possibly had a talk with him, before landing on that altar?I never saw it, not when I first started the game, not when I created my first character. I only saw it via the hooded stranger quest and the first time I did see it, I thought: wait, is this new? did they make this for this quest?
They were all well-made; it's truly a pity there's no easy way to just watch them again! I don't even think they're on the official ZOS Youtube page. One needs to search for them. I think, despite liking several of them, the one that impressed me most back then, in terms of atmosphere, was the one for Greymoor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK5t5RWUB5w
Which reminds me now: I once downloaded a mod for Skyrim where you would actually ride the carts instead of just fast-travelling with them (I think you could choose during the dialogue if you actually want the travel experience or just the normal fast-travel function). You could also tell the driver to stop and wait at any time and location on the route. And of course, you'd get attacked by highwaymen regularly (and sometimes, they got run over by the cart). It was fun, though (at least for me; less so for the bandits).As for how many times your character's been whacked on the head--that I cannot say. I would think more than once would be too many, but then I think the denizens of Tamriel are exceptionally hard-headed.
Especially since so many of them don't wear helmets. And now, they might not even wear shoes or pants in combat!I'm not entirely sure what's going on in that graphic there, but I'm pretty sure it's mistreatment, possibly even abuse, so...nope, I don't have any Khajiit friends.
It's a scientific experiment about Khajiit levitationI really did expect to learn more about Dunmer traditions. I haven't gone through that chapter again yet, either, but I do have someone in mind for it. The problem is I have too many characters who have a lot of stories I want them to experience.
And then, there's the new chore system. Now, if you want to quest in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane or the Gold Coast right now, that might be convenient...
But, to be honest: I'm not really a fan of time-limited rewards related to new content. Sure, we have several months, in this case (2 months if another "seasonal task" drops with the release of the Night Market - , and in case of the Night Market, it's generally a time-limited activity anyway), but I generally don't like being pushed to do new content when it's brand new, but prefer to wait until places have gotten a little calmer. At least I remember I absolutely hated to rush through the scribing storyline to claim some reward thing in the crown store, and I remember there had been something similar with another new release before. I also knew people who wanted to stretch out new content a bit over the year instead of finishing it directly 2 weeks after release, to avoid a months-long content drought - so for them it felt like they were rushed through the content and then had nothing to do again.
I'd rather see rewards related to content releases as permanent achievement or quest rewards. Then again, I'm generally not a friend of "time-limited".I don't think they would, or should, ever replace PvP Cyrodiil, but they could make a copy of it, set after the war, that exists in the game at the same time, and then set story content in it. Whether they would do anything like that is another matter--and I can't say I know how well the technical side of it would work. I have done all the PvE content available in Cyrodiil, and it's such a massive zone that seems, on the whole, underutilized. Even the PvP parts take place in very specific areas most of the time. Even just a version of the Imperial City where the daedra aren't running amok and the alliances are fighting would be fun. A post-war reconstruction of the city with all the city things that go on. Abnur Tharn could come back and order us around again--that would be fun.
It's indeed a pity, especially the Imperial City is such an interesting place! I'd also be happy to see it come up in some visions/memories/timetravelling/parallel dimension whatever, if they don't want to make a permanent extra instance of post-war Cyrodiil.
I hope parallel dimensions or time travel are not off the table, even if the Sages Vault turned out to be, well, interesting, but perhaps not quite as spectacular
While we're at it - the stream (which felt a little short, didn't it?)! As you know, I have no interests in PvP, or in grouping with random people (some people are okay, sure, I've also met some friends through gaming; but there are too many who have zero problem solving skills and get aggressive, throw a tantrum, ragequit, etc, over every ridiculous "problem" - so I'm honestly not sure why I would waste my free time with that?), which means trials are also not for me (unless they ever release solo versions for them, or versions where you could take several companions with you - preferably after they've received a combat update; I'm also happy they're going to release solo versions of dungeons now, so there's a way to experience all dungeon stories without someone else possibly disturbing the experience - I hope they'll continue that, and don't drop the idea again after the first few dungeons!). So I didn't pay much attention to that.
Night Market will be something I'm going to try - but we already discussed that, I think?
Overland difficulty? Well, I'm curious how well it will work out, and how many people will even use it - for a longer time, when the novelty effect wears off. From my experiences with ESO I can barely imagine many people being interested in fighting against random wolves for minutes, especially if they don't get any super rare rewards for it. People rush through all kinds of content, some don't read dialogues or texts of any kind at all, many use mods that automatize crafting, everything screams "time saving", so why would I believe many people would want to take extra time to fight an overland mob? Imagine how many dialogues they could skip in those 5 minutes they might fight two wolves over some random log or herb! But seriously: I fully understand the people who would enjoy using a higher difficulty option for better story immersion or because they seek a challenge. I'm just wondering how many people that will be.
I'm very curious about the upcoming two stories. The announcement that we're going to see a reworked Glenumbra while doing the new Thieves Guild questline was surprising - I still remembered the statement that they wanted to update all old zones, but I had thought they'd announce it earlier if they had such plans for a specific zone. So this came out of the blue somehow. Not that I complain, though!
As for the Sheogorath story: That was also a surprise that it's, well, not the typical formulaic approach (at least it doesn't sound like it right now), though I'm sceptical how it will work out in terms of lore. If a daedric prince can just decide to walk Nirn as a mortal, that clearly needs a good lore explanation. I hope it will be more than just some quirky joke. Also, I hope it will not just continue that tendency of humanizing and trivializing the daedric princes that we've seen for a few years now. If well-written, having Sheogorath walking the world wanting to be a mortal could be used exactly to show that he, his nature, his ways of thinking, are not human. It could be used to emphasize just that. But will that happen or will we just see another daedric prince portrayed as "see, they're not so different"...? I'm still sceptical.
As for puzzle content like the Sages Vault or the rumours: Personally, I'm really looking forward to testing them, of course! But I'm honestly sceptical if it will work out. I remember too well the things I observed in the Writhing Fortress: People standing around repeatedly shooting at a gate (despite it obviously having no health bar and not losing any points) instead of searching for a lever, button or similar (and yes, we also had npcs shouting at us to destroy those crystals). People running up to the ballistas and immediately throwing a tantrum, blaming ZOS they were "bugged" - obviously having them explicitly named "damaged ballista" and having some barrels with "repair parts" (and an option to pick those parts up) just nearby was a too complicated "puzzle". I even saw some nagging, after it was explained to them, that they've never been in Cyrodiil before (and again blaming ZOS for "assuming everyone would PvP"), so how would they know how to handle those ballistas!!!! Well, I've never been there before either, but using repair parts to repair a damaged device seemed, well, normal? So if even something that intuitive was too complicated for lots of people, how will they get along with a real puzzle?
When it comes to Favors: I expected some kind of dailies, but having them form a progressing story is even nicer than I had expected. Also, I hope the returning characters they use as questgivers are interesting. In the stream I saw Urcelmo - I don't have a specific opinion on him. He's okay, I guess. Then I saw Arabelle from High Isle, whom I specifically don't like much (just like the whole chapter). Whom else did they show? I think there were more.
Random world events in different zones also looked interesting. I wonder if it's like the "public events" Fallout 76 had (when I still played it some years ago). You'd get a notification there that some event was starting at a specific place, and then there were tasks that needed to be completed... In Fallout, it were events like defending a place, or repairing a machine in some factory. It worked well. If it will work well for ESO? We'll see.
The High Seas event: Well, I'm always open for new events! I'm sceptical if it might be one-time, as I just dislike one-time events in general - all that work that goes into them and then is wasted as soon as it ends. Just doesn't feel right if there's so many other permanent things that would need to be worked on. Also, I think it would have been good to be clearer about the "naval combat". Now of course many people are expecting the player character to be be able to sail ships, but I honestly doubt that that's possible with ESO's engine. I personally rather expect some ballista-shooting and some fights on board of a ship, but nothing about actually steering ships. I hope that won't lead to false expectations now. We've seen the debacle with the Writhing Wall event on Solstice last year where may players expected something truly spectacular, and then what it actually was was much more simple. I don't think it helps ESO if something like that happens again.
What else was it... Ah, right. A new zone next year, based around Winterhold somehow, with some content at the end of this year leading up to it. Sounds wonderful! But I wonder how big that zone will be and what we're going to expect there? What did they call it? An "excursion zone"? Or was it "exploration"? It's really hard to say how exactly that might look like.
But generally, despite all things that are still unclear, I was positively surprised. I see lots of potential there. New ideas that could lead to something truly new and interesting. I want to be honest, my interest in ESO diminished a bit over the years, but who knows, perhaps it will ger more interesting now again.
One thing I'm a little critical of was how they emphasized how much they want to cooperate with "the community" now - and then it was about streamers. I know that entertaining and friendly streamers exist, and those who were there during the stream seemed nice, but I hope they're aware that the community does not only consist of streamers and their fan circles, but that there are many more players, who could have a relevant opinion and interesting ideas and feedback, who do not engage with streaming, influencers and similar at all. I honestly also think it's partly an age thing. Most people interested in streamers seem to be a bit younger, while I know a lot of players in their mid-30s and older who don't care for streams (and the older, the less they usually care on average, from my personal experience). I always had the impression that ESO's playerbase had a slightly higher average age, so that's something that should be considered.Which ESO characters would I like more lore on? All of them! More specifically, I'd like some background filled in on some of the major players. Like Razum-dar. How did he go from being a farm-raised Khajiit to adventuring with Ayrenn? What made her appoint him her foremost Eye? Also, are the Eyes an organization that existed before, or did Ayrenn create them? Or Naemon. When his and Ayrenn's father died, Ayrenn was nowhere to be found, so Naemon started the laborious process of becoming the next king of the Altmer. What was that like for him? I assume, being the younger of the two, he didn't exactly expect to become king, but for some amount of time (timeline, please!) it seemed he very much would. Or what about Mannimarco: how did he go from being an exiled former Psijic to silver-tongued court advisor? What steps along his path led him there, and how much was chance versus driving ambition? When did he first come up with this plan to become a god, and did he consider other pathways to it before settling on betraying and usurping Molag Bal?
I'm honestly too tired to add anything useful on that topic now (it's already late, or early), but I'd like to agree, at least - that's a nice list of npcs for whom more background lore would be really interesting! Oh, and perhaps add some Telvanni to the list, too No, seriously. We've had the topic of rising through the ranks a bit in that storyline about Sun-in-Shadow, but how about learning a bit more about someone who is already a Master when we met them? Not sure how exactly that info could be conveyed in a story, but I'd honestly find it interesting. How did Gothren end up where he is now? And I'm not just saying that because it's Gothren but he's truly an interesting character, I think - we know he'll oust the current Archmagister some day. Not that he's the only one who might have tried, but he succeeded, and that makes the difference.I would like to meet some of the authors of the world, too. Is Carlovac Townway a current author? Does he exist in this time? I'd for sure like to meet him. I'd also like it if the two authors currently in the sewers (Phrastus of Elinhir and Lady Cinnabar of Taneth) had more dialogue lines when we talk to them. And I do want to meet the person who authored all the mount books we recently got: Fadus Falto.
Townway? Possibly. He would also interest me. And Magister Varkenel, of course.I really liked that West Weald quest where we got an idea of what Fennorian's life was like before becoming a vampire. I'd love another quest or two with him, where we learn more about him, perhaps even how he became a vampire. A series of quests where we get to learn more about Vanus would be cool, too.
So, yeah...there's a lot more I want to know about many characters. If I listed them all here, this post would never end!
Yes, those two would be interesting for sure!@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, none of them. I didn't imagine Mannimarco was out there himself gathering victims. That's why he has a cult. Besides, I'm pretty sure he doesn't consider anyone really worth his conversational time. They're either followers or fodder. One is for taking orders, the other doesn't require any words at all.I never saw it, not when I first started the game, not when I created my first character. I only saw it via the hooded stranger quest and the first time I did see it, I thought: wait, is this new? did they make this for this quest?
They were all well-made; it's truly a pity there's no easy way to just watch them again! I don't even think they're on the official ZOS Youtube page. One needs to search for them. I think, despite liking several of them, the one that impressed me most back then, in terms of atmosphere, was the one for Greymoor:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK5t5RWUB5w
Which reminds me now: I once downloaded a mod for Skyrim where you would actually ride the carts instead of just fast-travelling with them (I think you could choose during the dialogue if you actually want the travel experience or just the normal fast-travel function). You could also tell the driver to stop and wait at any time and location on the route. And of course, you'd get attacked by highwaymen regularly (and sometimes, they got run over by the cart). It was fun, though (at least for me; less so for the bandits).
So many Skyrim mods! I really never did much with mods in that game. I did really like the Greymoor tutorial as well. Fennorian, you know.As for how many times your character's been whacked on the head--that I cannot say. I would think more than once would be too many, but then I think the denizens of Tamriel are exceptionally hard-headed.
Especially since so many of them don't wear helmets. And now, they might not even wear shoes or pants in combat!
If the helmets in this game weren't so ugly, maybe more people would wear them. I actually haven't seen too many people making use of the new 'hide everything' ability. I think I saw one person with every slot hidden--or they were just standing around in their underwear. But I haven't seen too many pantsless people. Or I'm just not paying very close attention to what other players are (or aren't) wearing.I really did expect to learn more about Dunmer traditions. I haven't gone through that chapter again yet, either, but I do have someone in mind for it. The problem is I have too many characters who have a lot of stories I want them to experience.
And then, there's the new chore system. Now, if you want to quest in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane or the Gold Coast right now, that might be convenient...
I actually do have a character who has just started the Thieves Guild quest line. Of course, everyone is more or less stalled out right now with the anniversary event. Gotta do those crafting writs to get those boxes!But, to be honest: I'm not really a fan of time-limited rewards related to new content. Sure, we have several months, in this case (2 months if another "seasonal task" drops with the release of the Night Market - , and in case of the Night Market, it's generally a time-limited activity anyway), but I generally don't like being pushed to do new content when it's brand new, but prefer to wait until places have gotten a little calmer. At least I remember I absolutely hated to rush through the scribing storyline to claim some reward thing in the crown store, and I remember there had been something similar with another new release before. I also knew people who wanted to stretch out new content a bit over the year instead of finishing it directly 2 weeks after release, to avoid a months-long content drought - so for them it felt like they were rushed through the content and then had nothing to do again.
I'd rather see rewards related to content releases as permanent achievement or quest rewards. Then again, I'm generally not a friend of "time-limited".
That's my main concern with some of this experimental content they're trying: the time limit. I really don't like playing new content in a rush of other people. For the Night Market, that rush will probably be beneficial, since it's not a solo-friendly place (thought honestly I wonder how exploration of that place will seem). Well, as with all the new things, we'll have to see how it plays out. Usually I equate "time-limited" with "not for me," but I do want to at least try all these new systems.
As far as the seasonal tasks go with the tome, I haven't thought about them too much. The first one--get 50 boxes--was super easy and done without much thought. The kill 1000 enemies one only seems daunting if one tries to complete it in half an hour or so. I bet if you took a character through the Wrothgar questlines--main and side--you'd rack up those kills easily enough. Granted, a lot of people have already done that, and Hew's Bane, and Gold Coast, so the task literally is just a grind for them. I do think it's a bit odd to have the task be for three specific zones, yet I guess those were chosen because they were recently added for everyone and it's kind of a nudge to get people to play in them. I don't think such a nudge is necessary, but ZOS apparently does.I don't think they would, or should, ever replace PvP Cyrodiil, but they could make a copy of it, set after the war, that exists in the game at the same time, and then set story content in it. Whether they would do anything like that is another matter--and I can't say I know how well the technical side of it would work. I have done all the PvE content available in Cyrodiil, and it's such a massive zone that seems, on the whole, underutilized. Even the PvP parts take place in very specific areas most of the time. Even just a version of the Imperial City where the daedra aren't running amok and the alliances are fighting would be fun. A post-war reconstruction of the city with all the city things that go on. Abnur Tharn could come back and order us around again--that would be fun.
While we're at it - the stream (which felt a little short, didn't it?)! As you know, I have no interests in PvP, or in grouping with random people (some people are okay, sure, I've also met some friends through gaming; but there are too many who have zero problem solving skills and get aggressive, throw a tantrum, ragequit, etc, over every ridiculous "problem" - so I'm honestly not sure why I would waste my free time with that?), which means trials are also not for me (unless they ever release solo versions for them, or versions where you could take several companions with you - preferably after they've received a combat update; I'm also happy they're going to release solo versions of dungeons now, so there's a way to experience all dungeon stories without someone else possibly disturbing the experience - I hope they'll continue that, and don't drop the idea again after the first few dungeons!). So I didn't pay much attention to that.
It was the usual hour or so. The actual presentation of content was about half an hour, and when that ended, I did think: that was fast. But then there were the roundtables, so those finished out the hour.
I also hope they don't drop the solo dungeons before giving them all a solo version. The two that are first up are two I haven't done before, so I am very excited to finally be able to see their stories. Some kind of similar thing for trials would also be neat, but I honestly don't know if ZOS will ever go that route. I don't even care about rewards--I'd just like to see the story. I do enjoy the dungeons I can solo--well, Fungal Grotto's gotten real old, but it's still a good testing ground for my characters once I build them up a bit and want to see if they can make it through.Overland difficulty? Well, I'm curious how well it will work out, and how many people will even use it - for a longer time, when the novelty effect wears off. From my experiences with ESO I can barely imagine many people being interested in fighting against random wolves for minutes, especially if they don't get any super rare rewards for it. People rush through all kinds of content, some don't read dialogues or texts of any kind at all, many use mods that automatize crafting, everything screams "time saving", so why would I believe many people would want to take extra time to fight an overland mob? Imagine how many dialogues they could skip in those 5 minutes they might fight two wolves over some random log or herb! But seriously: I fully understand the people who would enjoy using a higher difficulty option for better story immersion or because they seek a challenge. I'm just wondering how many people that will be.
Whenever I'm out and about on the landscape, and see other players, more often than not they aren't fighting mobs. They are running/riding as fast as they can, mobs trailing in their wake, and very little landscape combat takes place. I know people have said the mobs die so fast they're not worth fighting/engaging with. Will these same people want to fight the mobs if they're more difficult to kill? That remains to be seen.
I figure I'll try the first or second difficulty tiers--just to see. Will I stay on it? Probably not. I remember when overland was difficult for me, and I remember how happy I was when I got leveled and geared to make it easy. My interests in this game are not for challenging fights, so more difficult overland isn't really my thing.I'm very curious about the upcoming two stories. The announcement that we're going to see a reworked Glenumbra while doing the new Thieves Guild questline was surprising - I still remembered the statement that they wanted to update all old zones, but I had thought they'd announce it earlier if they had such plans for a specific zone. So this came out of the blue somehow. Not that I complain, though!
As for the Sheogorath story: That was also a surprise that it's, well, not the typical formulaic approach (at least it doesn't sound like it right now), though I'm sceptical how it will work out in terms of lore. If a daedric prince can just decide to walk Nirn as a mortal, that clearly needs a good lore explanation. I hope it will be more than just some quirky joke. Also, I hope it will not just continue that tendency of humanizing and trivializing the daedric princes that we've seen for a few years now. If well-written, having Sheogorath walking the world wanting to be a mortal could be used exactly to show that he, his nature, his ways of thinking, are not human. It could be used to emphasize just that. But will that happen or will we just see another daedric prince portrayed as "see, they're not so different"...? I'm still sceptical.
I was also suprised--and pleased--to hear about updated Glenumbra. I'm glad they are utilizing existing zones for this new content. I do like new areas to explore, but I don't like old areas being left in the dusty pages of history. I'm excited to see Quen again, and intriqued about the new Thieves Guild questline.
As for Sheogorath, I was surprised that the outline of the story got me interested in it. Since I really don't like how he's been portrayed in ESO so far, I wasn't looking forward to his return. However, now I'm curious. I really hope it's not just more 'oh, Sheogorath, he's so quirky!' and 'cheese!' I believe 'chaos ensues' was mentioned in relation to it, and how that chaos is represented is what will make it or break it for me. There's a lot of potential in the outline of the story, and I'm very curious as to what the lore explanations for some of it will be. He's somehow side-stepping the Coldharbour Compact, and I wonder if that will be touched upon.As for puzzle content like the Sages Vault or the rumours: Personally, I'm really looking forward to testing them, of course! But I'm honestly sceptical if it will work out. I remember too well the things I observed in the Writhing Fortress: People standing around repeatedly shooting at a gate (despite it obviously having no health bar and not losing any points) instead of searching for a lever, button or similar (and yes, we also had npcs shouting at us to destroy those crystals). People running up to the ballistas and immediately throwing a tantrum, blaming ZOS they were "bugged" - obviously having them explicitly named "damaged ballista" and having some barrels with "repair parts" (and an option to pick those parts up) just nearby was a too complicated "puzzle". I even saw some nagging, after it was explained to them, that they've never been in Cyrodiil before (and again blaming ZOS for "assuming everyone would PvP"), so how would they know how to handle those ballistas!!!! Well, I've never been there before either, but using repair parts to repair a damaged device seemed, well, normal? So if even something that intuitive was too complicated for lots of people, how will they get along with a real puzzle?
I would hope people who don't like puzzles just wouldn't bother with the Sages Vault or rumors. Kind of how like I don't like PvP, so I don't bother with it. Not every bit of content has to be for everyone--in fact, trying to make it for everyone leads to more disappointment than not, I think.
The Sages Vault was nothing like what I thought it might be, and as for what it actually is--it's something I'm really going to have to experience to know if I will like it or not. The idea of an ever-changing place could be good, or it could just be frustrating. Making your way through not by combat but by puzzle solving and such of course depends on the puzzles and how well they're implemented. I hope there are no jumping puzzles, because jumping in this game doesn't work very well. To be clear, I find the idea of the Sages Vault very interesting, but I won't know whether it's for me or not until I actually try it out.
I'm eager to see how well I do at rumors, too. I wonder just how mysterious they're going to be, and just how puzzle-oriented. l'll certainly do my best to figure them out, but if I can't, I have a secret weapon: my husband has puzzle brain, so if I ever get stuck I can always demand he solve it for me.When it comes to Favors: I expected some kind of dailies, but having them form a progressing story is even nicer than I had expected. Also, I hope the returning characters they use as questgivers are interesting. In the stream I saw Urcelmo - I don't have a specific opinion on him. He's okay, I guess. Then I saw Arabelle from High Isle, whom I specifically don't like much (just like the whole chapter). Whom else did they show? I think there were more.
I like Urcelmo well enough--we haven't really done much with him, though. He's just there in several quests, in the background. I hope Arabelle is less patronizing this time. The other specific npc they showed was Holgunn--he's an interesting character, I think. Mostly I think it's great they're using some of the other npcs of the world for this, and hopefully the stories develop their characters more.Random world events in different zones also looked interesting. I wonder if it's like the "public events" Fallout 76 had (when I still played it some years ago). You'd get a notification there that some event was starting at a specific place, and then there were tasks that needed to be completed... In Fallout, it were events like defending a place, or repairing a machine in some factory. It worked well. If it will work well for ESO? We'll see.
They didn't really say much about the random events, did they? I'm wondering what those will look like and how easy it'll be to know when they're active. It'll certainly be something to look out for.The High Seas event: Well, I'm always open for new events! I'm sceptical if it might be one-time, as I just dislike one-time events in general - all that work that goes into them and then is wasted as soon as it ends. Just doesn't feel right if there's so many other permanent things that would need to be worked on. Also, I think it would have been good to be clearer about the "naval combat". Now of course many people are expecting the player character to be be able to sail ships, but I honestly doubt that that's possible with ESO's engine. I personally rather expect some ballista-shooting and some fights on board of a ship, but nothing about actually steering ships. I hope that won't lead to false expectations now. We've seen the debacle with the Writhing Wall event on Solstice last year where may players expected something truly spectacular, and then what it actually was was much more simple. I don't think it helps ESO if something like that happens again.
They're not hyping up the High Seas event like they did the Writhing Wall. I do think some expectations about it are already a little too high--I really don't see us being able to sail ships. I think the major portion of it will be utilizing those underwater mechanics, where we walk along the sea floor in an air bubble. I can't remember if they said it was one-time or recurring? I think it's more of the 'experimental' content they're working on.
As far as one-time events in the game go, it's not as if this would be the first, if it is one-time. Those chapter celebrations they used to do, where there were community goals to reach to unlock rewards: those were one-time, and people loved those. I know this is somewhat different in that they've created a new area for it, but I don't think one-time events are, in and of themselves, bad. Plus, they want to experiment with content, and this is one way to do it. If they try this, and it turns out people hate it, why keep it? Better to ditch it than leave it languishing in game as an underdeveloped system.
I guess I just consider missing events or certain types of content par for the course when it comes to live service games. I also feel that if I'm not playing a game when a certain one-time event is around, it's because I'm not interested in the game at the time, and so not experiencing the thing doesn't matter.What else was it... Ah, right. A new zone next year, based around Winterhold somehow, with some content at the end of this year leading up to it. Sounds wonderful! But I wonder how big that zone will be and what we're going to expect there? What did they call it? An "excursion zone"? Or was it "exploration"? It's really hard to say how exactly that might look like.
They called it an excursion zone, but didn't explain what they meant by that. That's fine, since it's still so far out, and they're probably still defining what exactly that will be. It sounds interesting enough, and the Skyrim storms they mentioned made me wonder if they're going to be doing more with weather effects. All we got to see was a very brief cinematic moment of the Nord guy and a wolf standing in snow, surveying a storm (at least I think that's what they were doing). Wolf companion confirmed?But generally, despite all things that are still unclear, I was positively surprised. I see lots of potential there. New ideas that could lead to something truly new and interesting. I want to be honest, my interest in ESO diminished a bit over the years, but who knows, perhaps it will ger more interesting now again.
One thing I'm a little critical of was how they emphasized how much they want to cooperate with "the community" now - and then it was about streamers. I know that entertaining and friendly streamers exist, and those who were there during the stream seemed nice, but I hope they're aware that the community does not only consist of streamers and their fan circles, but that there are many more players, who could have a relevant opinion and interesting ideas and feedback, who do not engage with streaming, influencers and similar at all. I honestly also think it's partly an age thing. Most people interested in streamers seem to be a bit younger, while I know a lot of players in their mid-30s and older who don't care for streams (and the older, the less they usually care on average, from my personal experience). I always had the impression that ESO's playerbase had a slightly higher average age, so that's something that should be considered.
I was pretty pleased with the stream, too. I think there's enough to keep me interested in playing, story-wise, and some new systems to try out. I think it shows they are committed to making ESO that 30 year game they mentioned before, and I think that freeing themselves from the chapter cycle has given them a lot of room to do more and different content. It won't all be something I'm interested in--but that's fine.
I'm completely unfamiliar with the two community members they had at the roundtables--are they streamers? From everything they said, I got the idea they're both leaders of very large in-game communities as well, and they were representing the voices of players who aren't streamers. So I think what they brought to the (round) table was more than just 'streamer opinions'. I do like that ZOS is engaging with the community more, and I think they're paying attention to all facets of that community to some degree.Which ESO characters would I like more lore on? All of them! More specifically, I'd like some background filled in on some of the major players. Like Razum-dar. How did he go from being a farm-raised Khajiit to adventuring with Ayrenn? What made her appoint him her foremost Eye? Also, are the Eyes an organization that existed before, or did Ayrenn create them? Or Naemon. When his and Ayrenn's father died, Ayrenn was nowhere to be found, so Naemon started the laborious process of becoming the next king of the Altmer. What was that like for him? I assume, being the younger of the two, he didn't exactly expect to become king, but for some amount of time (timeline, please!) it seemed he very much would. Or what about Mannimarco: how did he go from being an exiled former Psijic to silver-tongued court advisor? What steps along his path led him there, and how much was chance versus driving ambition? When did he first come up with this plan to become a god, and did he consider other pathways to it before settling on betraying and usurping Molag Bal?
I'm honestly too tired to add anything useful on that topic now (it's already late, or early), but I'd like to agree, at least - that's a nice list of npcs for whom more background lore would be really interesting! Oh, and perhaps add some Telvanni to the list, too No, seriously. We've had the topic of rising through the ranks a bit in that storyline about Sun-in-Shadow, but how about learning a bit more about someone who is already a Master when we met them? Not sure how exactly that info could be conveyed in a story, but I'd honestly find it interesting. How did Gothren end up where he is now? And I'm not just saying that because it's Gothren but he's truly an interesting character, I think - we know he'll oust the current Archmagister some day. Not that he's the only one who might have tried, but he succeeded, and that makes the difference.
Forget Sun-in-Shadow! Let's follow Revus Demnevanni as he finally works his way up through the Telvanni ranks. Oh, sure, we could learn more about Gothren--I know how much of a crush you have on him. More House politics/maneuvering could make for a good story--not just Telvanni, but all of them. *Still hoping for a time when we can join a Great House in game.*
As for how we could learn how Gothren got where he is--ZOS has done quests before where we view past events (most notably the original Fighters Guild quest line). Since I doubt Gothren would share anything that personal with us, it would probably have to be from the perspective of a rival, trying to ferret out Gothren's secrets.0 -
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✭✭✭✭✭Well, none of them. I didn't imagine Mannimarco was out there himself gathering victims. That's why he has a cult.
I also didn't expect him to sacrifice people himself, still we got that cut scene.Besides, I'm pretty sure he doesn't consider anyone really worth his conversational time. They're either followers or fodder. One is for taking orders, the other doesn't require any words at all.
Don't forget about the nobles (and other influential people) he's supposed to be manipulating. That would also be a possible character background story: Having met up to strike some deal, but things somehow didn't end up as planned. Or one could play a former cultist who's fallen from favor. Of course the dialogue options asking what the Worm Cult is might seem a little strange then; on the other hand, playing dumb might be the better choice than to reveal one's former connections to it. Don't think many Tamrielan people would like that.So many Skyrim mods! I really never did much with mods in that game.
Oh, I didn't use that many, actually. Usually just the carriage one, one for a more classic-style world map, and one to assign followers to a home of my choice. I also played a survival mod for some time, but for the average playthrough, I find it too much of a hassle.I did really like the Greymoor tutorial as well. Fennorian, you know.
It's truly a pity people can't experience that part of the story anymore. Especially as it was such a good start into the chapter story.I actually haven't seen too many people making use of the new 'hide everything' ability. I think I saw one person with every slot hidden--or they were just standing around in their underwear. But I haven't seen too many pantsless people.
Me neither. Just rarely one in the bank, but those were probably just mules who never leave the bank anyway, so they probably just had no armor/clothing.I actually do have a character who has just started the Thieves Guild quest line. Of course, everyone is more or less stalled out right now with the anniversary event. Gotta do those crafting writs to get those boxes!
Yeah, for me, the event is basically also blocking everything else. I barely get crafting done every day, and then try to squeeze those new weekly chores in somehow. But the crafting is worth it. Lots of materials to sell. So I choose to do it, even if it's horribly boring.That's my main concern with some of this experimental content they're trying: the time limit. I really don't like playing new content in a rush of other people. For the Night Market, that rush will probably be beneficial, since it's not a solo-friendly place (thought honestly I wonder how exploration of that place will seem). Well, as with all the new things, we'll have to see how it plays out. Usually I equate "time-limited" with "not for me," but I do want to at least try all these new systems.
I expect the Night Market experience to be comparable to the Writhing Fortress. Not completely, of course, but similar. So, yes, some time limitation seems to be neccessary to keep it full enough for people to be able to progress reasonably. But with everything else, I'm not a fan of time-limited at all.As far as the seasonal tasks go with the tome, I haven't thought about them too much. The first one--get 50 boxes--was super easy and done without much thought.
That one was well done, as it just completed on the side, while playing the game normally. As it should be, from my point of view.The kill 1000 enemies one only seems daunting if one tries to complete it in half an hour or so. I bet if you took a character through the Wrothgar questlines--main and side--you'd rack up those kills easily enough. Granted, a lot of people have already done that, and Hew's Bane, and Gold Coast, so the task literally is just a grind for them. I do think it's a bit odd to have the task be for three specific zones, yet I guess those were chosen because they were recently added for everyone and it's kind of a nudge to get people to play in them. I don't think such a nudge is necessary, but ZOS apparently does.
I'm sure it was meant as a tie-in for players who now have access to the old zones that became part of the base game now, for the first time, and who do the quests there now. And I think while playing through those zones, the whole main story, the side quests, completing the map with all world bosses, etc, the 1000 enemy chore would probably also complete "naturally". It's just annoying for people who have already done the zone on their character(s).
I expect more seasonal quests to suddenly appear when ever some new content is released. I bet there'll be something on overland difficulty, on the High Seas event, etc, too. If it's entirely new content, it might work better than the current one.I also hope they don't drop the solo dungeons before giving them all a solo version. The two that are first up are two I haven't done before, so I am very excited to finally be able to see their stories. Some kind of similar thing for trials would also be neat, but I honestly don't know if ZOS will ever go that route. I don't even care about rewards--I'd just like to see the story. I do enjoy the dungeons I can solo--well, Fungal Grotto's gotten real old, but it's still a good testing ground for my characters once I build them up a bit and want to see if they can make it through.
I still want to see Halls of FabricationWhenever I'm out and about on the landscape, and see other players, more often than not they aren't fighting mobs. They are running/riding as fast as they can, mobs trailing in their wake, and very little landscape combat takes place. I know people have said the mobs die so fast they're not worth fighting/engaging with. Will these same people want to fight the mobs if they're more difficult to kill? That remains to be seen.
For me, it would depend on my intention. If I'm just out collecting materials, wolves and other creatures attacking feels like a nuisance already now - I wouldn't want those fights to take even longer (and actually I don't like it either that there are sometimes animals just doing whatever, bothering no one, near a crafting survey spot, and I need to kill them for harvesting those nodes)!
But if I'm questing in a new zone (though, of course, there's no new zone right now)? Then, the fights being a bit less easy could contribute to the atmosphere. Makes the threat seem more serious and the situation feel more urgent, etc. Imagine East Solstice would have actually felt (at least somewhat) dangerous - it would cause a bit of a change of atmosphere. Different difficulties between West and East Solstice might have even contributed to the feeling that there's something really, really bad going on behind the Wall, threatening to spill over and infest the whole island, including the still less dangerous West (though even without difficulty options, that could also have been achieved by design choices, by just placing a bigger number of more difficult enemies on the Eastern side - it's strange, actually, that they didn't really do that so far, and even zones that are supposed to be really dangerous, like some daedric realm, aren't any harder than some random inhabited area in Daggerfall or Summerset).
I think it's interesting, by the way, to see the forum posts about the topic. Wasn't there a huge thread where lots of people asked for overland difficulty options? But in the latest threads, now that these options are coming, there's mostly people saying they don't want or need it (I, personally, have never changed my opinion, never actively advocated for it; while it might be nice when questing, I never thought it was absolutely something they should work on). I really hope it won't end with them having put work into this whole thing, but then almost no one uses it. If just for the fact that they'll probably be more sceptical of player suggestion in the future then, which makes it less likely that even good suggestion will be implemented.I figure I'll try the first or second difficulty tiers--just to see. Will I stay on it? Probably not.
I'll try them out, all of them, just to see how much of a difference it makes. Which would probably entertain me for, what, an hour perhaps? If at all. But then I'll likely change it back to normal for most of the time, with the possibility of choosing a slightly higher one if there's a new zone story next year.
Though I'm not even sure if that would work out well, in terms of immersion, if then some other random player with normal difficulty selected might walk by and kill the enemy npcs as easily as ever. It's a multiplayer game, I'm really not sure if having different difficulty options works here. Do other MMOs have that?I was also suprised--and pleased--to hear about updated Glenumbra.
I suspect they might continue like that - new story in an old zone, paired with a visual rework of that zone. Thought that might make it a little predictable about where the next stories might take place, especially if they've already reworked a few zones in a few years. Unless of course, that reworks just stop at some point. It's unfortunately not the only thing once started that then somehow got forgotten. And I don't even mean new ToT decks or companions (I think they might still add more to these). But things like those ghosts of the Old Life quest.As for Sheogorath, I was surprised that the outline of the story got me interested in it. Since I really don't like how he's been portrayed in ESO so far, I wasn't looking forward to his return. However, now I'm curious. I really hope it's not just more 'oh, Sheogorath, he's so quirky!' and 'cheese!' I believe 'chaos ensues' was mentioned in relation to it, and how that chaos is represented is what will make it or break it for me. There's a lot of potential in the outline of the story, and I'm very curious as to what the lore explanations for some of it will be. He's somehow side-stepping the Coldharbour Compact, and I wonder if that will be touched upon.
If you want to see the visuals once more, there's actually a short 2-minute trailer about this year's content:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVjE88kBxwk
Apart from the Sheogorath shrine in that new house they talked about in yesterday's stream (where it looks like Sheogorath was summoned), there's: Sheogorath smelling cheese. Sheogorath doing some goofy walk at the cheese festival near Dubdil-Alar tower on Vvardenfell. Sheogorath watching dogs sitting at a Tales of Tribute table (clearly meme-ing those "dogs playing Poker" paintings by Cassius Marcellus Coolidge) somewhere on Vvardenfell. Something in an Ayleid ruin. Floating tables, again on Vvardenfell (probably the same tavern where the dog scene takes place), and that's it. Also looks like there's a male Bosmer around, probably the character who summoned Sheogorath? Maybe I should also mention this in the lore thread.
Anyway, while I'm curious, the trailer (but it's just a short trailer, yes - I don't want to already judge the content before it's even released either) looks like the focus would rather be quirkyness, and less some deeper lore characterization of Sheogorath, or interesting questions to think about (like the relations between mortals and daedra, or about being human), or anything about the Coldharbor Compact (they might want to keep that a mystery - also, I think the whole story this year is just too short to reasonably tackle that topic; I took notes during yesterday's stream and those say "Sheogorath = 6 quests, Thieves = 8 quests; how much time might that even be? If it's just half an hour each like the Solstice main quests were, that would be 7 hours total?).
They might think that humour and quirkyness sells best. And I understand that ESO is a mainstream game. But it was also already a mainstream game when it released slightly over a decade ago, and back then, it still had a different tone and also topics that were much more serious, and themes that went a bit deeper - and these stories were successful.
There was specifically something I always found special about TES, more interesting than many other game worlds, despite the games having been a huge commercial success at least since TES3 Morrowind. And I'm really not that interested in mainstream media normally, be it movies, or books, or music; not saying that to sound snobby, but I honestly find mainstream stuff boring most of the time. Same-y, superficial, just plain boring. But TES was always interesting to me, because it has something special to it. It would be sad if that was gone. Generally speaking, of course, when it comes to the writing of ESO - we don't know much about the Sheogorath questline yet, and even if the Sheogorath questline might turn out "funny" and "quirky" and nothing beyond that, perhaps the Thieves Guild questline could be more interesting, at least.I would hope people who don't like puzzles just wouldn't bother with the Sages Vault or rumors. Kind of how like I don't like PvP, so I don't bother with it. Not every bit of content has to be for everyone--in fact, trying to make it for everyone leads to more disappointment than not, I think.
I, too, ignore the parts of the game I'm not interested in, like PvP. If there's some reward I'd find fitting for one of my characters roleplay-wise, I do think it's a pity I will never get it, but it's fine, I don't bother with it for longer.
But I know there are lots of people who want to have everything, or just complete every content, so I'm sure there will be people who will complain about being "forced" to do that puzzle content. Actually I've already seen comments after the stream from some people, about how much they hate puzzles and don't want to be "bothered" with them in ESO.
I also agree that trying to make everything appeal to everyone will only lead it to be unsatisfying for everyone, including the people who would be interested in it normally. Not everything needs to appeal to every single player, especially in such a big game with many different systems and playstyles. Making puzzles super easy for people who don't really like puzzles makes no sense. Dumbing down storywriting for people who actually don't like reading or listening to stories doesn't make sense either.
The only thing I'd advocate for was not mixing up systems and their rewards too much - like needing to complete ToT achievements to get something useful for PvP, or needing to complete a vet dungeon for some simple housing item (which is not a replica of a specific artifact from that dungeon, or a trophy or similar - that would be totally fine). I know they try to push people to play all kinds of different content by this, but it's only frustrating. I for sure don't want to play a system I absolutely dislike only to get something useful for a system I enjoy. Would feel like a waste of time. I'd rather see rewards being useful for exactly that specific system they were acquired with, or, in case of housing stuff or mementos or similar, closely related in topic to that specific thing they were earned with. I, personally, can in the end just ignore a thing if I know I'll never complete the needed achievement for it anyway, but I see it leads to complaints in the forum and a bad mood among the players so often, which could, in many cases, easily be avoided.The Sages Vault was nothing like what I thought it might be, and as for what it actually is--it's something I'm really going to have to experience to know if I will like it or not. The idea of an ever-changing place could be good, or it could just be frustrating. Making your way through not by combat but by puzzle solving and such of course depends on the puzzles and how well they're implemented. I hope there are no jumping puzzles, because jumping in this game doesn't work very well. To be clear, I find the idea of the Sages Vault very interesting, but I won't know whether it's for me or not until I actually try it out.
I'm curious about it. I don't think it can be too difficult, as the average person should be able to complete it? We'll see! Still a bit sad the Sages Vauls is not about time-travelling or parallel realities, thoughI'm eager to see how well I do at rumors, too. I wonder just how mysterious they're going to be, and just how puzzle-oriented. l'll certainly do my best to figure them out, but if I can't, I have a secret weapon: my husband has puzzle brain, so if I ever get stuck I can always demand he solve it for me.
What we saw so far looked good to me. Very curious, especially also about the different endings!I like Urcelmo well enough--we haven't really done much with him, though. He's just there in several quests, in the background. I hope Arabelle is less patronizing this time. The other specific npc they showed was Holgunn--he's an interesting character, I think. Mostly I think it's great they're using some of the other npcs of the world for this, and hopefully the stories develop their characters more.
I'm fine with Holgunn, neutral about Urcelmo, and I dislike Arabelle (not sure why, but I really never found Bretons interesting, or the Daggerfall Covenant as a whole - those were also my least favorite zones). Isn't it strange, by the way, that, while clearly doing one person per war faction, they chose Arabelle, who only comes up in the High Isle story, for the Covenant? Was there no one else of interest for that faction?
I was, by the way, a bit disappointed in yesterday's stream that it's only three people - I thought it were more. Though at least they already said they plan on adding more people to that system in the future; hopefully also some I personally find more interesting. I had hoped for the Vanos siblings somehow (especially since they came up in the current Tome rewards again, out of the blue), or Revus Or perhaps Divayth. The Ravenwatch could also ask for help in some matters, or any other faction, really. We could also get a bit more content for the Mages Guild here, apart from bringing back the same few artifacts that disappear every single day. Or something Fighters Guild related, who only have those dolmen quests so far.
I was a bit confused about the part about "favors that we might have already completed before accepting them" (which then would lead to a thank-you-letter immediately without the need to do anything). How would the game track that? Are some of these favors basically just tasks from the achievement list?
What do you think about the poster furnishing rewards, by the way? Has your character ever felt the need to hang Lady Arabelle to a lamppost? A picture of her, I mean Though of course, those pictures could also be used to adorn archery targets, for example. And for player characters with friendlier dispositions, maybe there should be empty picture frames available for gold at some merchant?
Another thing that caught my attention were the writ boards themselves. I hope they'll still improve the graphics a bit, in particular the writing on all those notes. I find the gibberish still too easy to read. A finer and smaller font would help, basically like it was done with the base game crafting writ boards.They didn't really say much about the random events, did they? I'm wondering what those will look like and how easy it'll be to know when they're active. It'll certainly be something to look out for.
From what we've seen in the last stream, it really is comparable to how it was in Fallout 76. A little less complex, perhaps, in that example with the stable. But it's not like they couldn't make some more complicated ones over time (also, we don't know how the others look yet). I was also surprised/disappointed it were only 3 so far - as with the Favors, I thought it were more. Probably because they term "system" made me expect a bigger scope, based on how system introductions looked like in the past; though it's still correct, of course, it's a new system, and it was one even if it was only 1 location (or questgiver in case of Favors). Generally, I like the principle, though, and I'm looking forward to more places getting added over time!They're not hyping up the High Seas event like they did the Writhing Wall. I do think some expectations about it are already a little too high--I really don't see us being able to sail ships. I think the major portion of it will be utilizing those underwater mechanics, where we walk along the sea floor in an air bubble.
It's true ZOS didn't hype it, but players do expect too much from what I've seen on the forums, and it might help to counter that a bit? Especially if a bigger hype develops over time.
I mostly expect it to be combat on ships, with some of that air bubble stuff. Which isn't new, but also came up in the Necrom prologue, and in some dungeon or trial, from what I heard.I can't remember if they said it was one-time or recurring? I think it's more of the 'experimental' content they're working on.
I originally thought it would be a repeating event that would return once in a while, though not as regularly as the seasonal (April, Halloween, New Year) events, but in the forums, I've already seem complaints about it being one-time. Not sure if it's reliable info, though.As far as one-time events in the game go, it's not as if this would be the first, if it is one-time. Those chapter celebrations they used to do, where there were community goals to reach to unlock rewards: those were one-time, and people loved those. I know this is somewhat different in that they've created a new area for it, but I don't think one-time events are, in and of themselves, bad. Plus, they want to experiment with content, and this is one way to do it. If they try this, and it turns out people hate it, why keep it? Better to ditch it than leave it languishing in game as an underdeveloped system.
It just feels like a waste to me, considering all the time and efforts that go into creating a new area.
I can understand stopping to add something to a system if it's not successful, but how does removing it again help? It means quests that can't be completed anymore, disappeared lore and dialogues and possibly also lorebooks, achievements, rewards.
Also, there are always people who like something, even if it might not be generally popular. I don't think ToT was a huge success, but the people who love it would surely not be happy about it being removed from the game one day, just because most people don't play it anymore. Removing it again really doesn't improve anything, from my point of view, since all those efforts already went into it. Then they can as well keep it, for those who do like it.
Let alone that after the backlash from introducing the Wall event last year as a one-time event, there were posts from ZOS that said this was the only time-limited content and all other content they produce will remain in game. And then they introduced the Night Market. And now this. Perhaps there wasn't enough backlash yet.I guess I just consider missing events or certain types of content par for the course when it comes to live service games. I also feel that if I'm not playing a game when a certain one-time event is around, it's because I'm not interested in the game at the time, and so not experiencing the thing doesn't matter.
If it's only a 1- or 2-week event, it can easily be missed for family or health reasons. Sure, those are more important than a game, but it's still a pity if it's content one actually would have found really interesting.
It's also unfortunate because ESO is a TES game and as such, all lore gets recorded on UESP and remains there forever. News ESO players will come across it later, but not be able to actually ever experience it (just like it's the case already now with the TES Legends stories, for example). I'm just not sure if disappearing content really fits such a story- and lore-heavy game with an ongoing story.They called it an excursion zone, but didn't explain what they meant by that. That's fine, since it's still so far out, and they're probably still defining what exactly that will be.
I'm wondering if it's more like some short story trip with a clearly defined route, or more open and about landscape/zone exploration. There was a thread somewhere that brought up that "excursion" meant "a short leisure trip" in English, where I asked if that's the only definition (as it means something different in German), but unfortunately, I never got an answer.It sounds interesting enough, and the Skyrim storms they mentioned made me wonder if they're going to be doing more with weather effects.
The way they introduced it as a point of this year's content, rather central for the third season, it surely must be more than just "normal" weather?All we got to see was a very brief cinematic moment of the Nord guy and a wolf standing in snow, surveying a storm (at least I think that's what they were doing). Wolf companion confirmed?
If it had been a Bosmer, I'd have said that was probably his dinnerI was pretty pleased with the stream, too. I think there's enough to keep me interested in playing, story-wise, and some new systems to try out. I think it shows they are committed to making ESO that 30 year game they mentioned before, and I think that freeing themselves from the chapter cycle has given them a lot of room to do more and different content. It won't all be something I'm interested in--but that's fine.
I was positively surprised about the variety of content, and also about how it differs from what we usually got - especially after last year didn't feel very creative.I'm completely unfamiliar with the two community members they had at the roundtables--are they streamers? From everything they said, I got the idea they're both leaders of very large in-game communities as well, and they were representing the voices of players who aren't streamers. So I think what they brought to the (round) table was more than just 'streamer opinions'. I do like that ZOS is engaging with the community more, and I think they're paying attention to all facets of that community to some degree.
They introduced them as streamers. But I didn't even mean the roundtable discussion. I meant the statements at the very beginning of the first part of the stream. Where they talked about involving players more, listening to feedback - and then it was immediately: We talked to streamers. And while streamers are a part of the community, they're not everything (even if some people act like they were). Yes, they often have their fan circles they interact with, but even a streamer and their following is only a part of the playerbase. There are many players who have no involvement with streamers whatsoever, and I hope these won't be forgotten.
Also: Everyone can become an ESO streamer (there's a form on this website there people can suggest their channel to be added to the ESO streamer list), it doesn't automatically mean they're all more intelligent, competent or have better assessment skills about what would be good for the game or not, or a better taste, than people who don't get into streaming. I'm not saying there are no competent streamers - of course there are, and some put a lot of time into the part of the game they're interested in (be it PvP, of housing, or whatever), so they have very good knowledge about and skill in that. But still: They represent their specific sphere, but not the whole playerbase. How people outside that sphere might interact with the game, or what they want from the game, might be completely different.
Not even including demographic factors: Many streamers, and their audience, are younger people from the USA. It's not unlikely that older players could have different wishes and a different view on the game, as could players from Japan or Denmark or Croatia. For example, a 22-years-old American streamer and his fanbase might find the inclusion of memes and quips into ESO's writing super awesome and suggest to make more like that. Most players in Europe might not even understand the very same memes.Forget Sun-in-Shadow! Let's follow Revus Demnevanni as he finally works his way up through the Telvanni ranks.
That would really be a story I'd like to see! He's a Spellwright right now, and I certainly see potentialOh, sure, we could learn more about Gothren--I know how much of a crush you have on him.
A lot! He's so endearing, it's scary. Of the other way round
More House politics/maneuvering could make for a good story--not just Telvanni, but all of them. *Still hoping for a time when we can join a Great House in game.*
Yes I'd love to be able to let my characters officially join a House! Already found it a pity that it wasn't possible when the Morrowind chapter released. Also, it would be a different topic for once, not again some world-ending threat. Could be interesting, if well-written.
Unrelated to this, I really want a tavern room in Sadrith MoraAs for how we could learn how Gothren got where he is--ZOS has done quests before where we view past events (most notably the original Fighters Guild quest line). Since I doubt Gothren would share anything that personal with us, it would probably have to be from the perspective of a rival, trying to ferret out Gothren's secrets.
It honestly would be interesting. Even more so if it would not rely on the typical clichés.
That was a lot of babbling @Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
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He probably just didn't trust any of his idiot cultists to do the job right.Besides, I'm pretty sure he doesn't consider anyone really worth his conversational time. They're either followers or fodder. One is for taking orders, the other doesn't require any words at all.
Don't forget about the nobles (and other influential people) he's supposed to be manipulating. That would also be a possible character background story: Having met up to strike some deal, but things somehow didn't end up as planned. Or one could play a former cultist who's fallen from favor. Of course the dialogue options asking what the Worm Cult is might seem a little strange then; on the other hand, playing dumb might be the better choice than to reveal one's former connections to it. Don't think many Tamrielan people would like that.
None of my characters are the noble or influential type, so Mannimarco wouldn't have had anything to do with them. Playing a former cultist fallen from favor (probably for asking one too many questions!) is an interesting angle, for sure. Having to play dumb about the cult and all its shenanigans would fit right in with the Vestige's usual responses, too.I actually do have a character who has just started the Thieves Guild quest line. Of course, everyone is more or less stalled out right now with the anniversary event. Gotta do those crafting writs to get those boxes!
Yeah, for me, the event is basically also blocking everything else. I barely get crafting done every day, and then try to squeeze those new weekly chores in somehow. But the crafting is worth it. Lots of materials to sell. So I choose to do it, even if it's horribly boring.
As usual, after the first week, I get a little burned out on the daily crafting on all my characters. But I keep doing it, because who knows what motif I might stumble across? The mats are fine--I just add them to pile. I'm really just in it for the motifs.I also hope they don't drop the solo dungeons before giving them all a solo version. The two that are first up are two I haven't done before, so I am very excited to finally be able to see their stories. Some kind of similar thing for trials would also be neat, but I honestly don't know if ZOS will ever go that route. I don't even care about rewards--I'd just like to see the story. I do enjoy the dungeons I can solo--well, Fungal Grotto's gotten real old, but it's still a good testing ground for my characters once I build them up a bit and want to see if they can make it through.
I still want to see Halls of Fabrication
Oh, I'm in favor of a solo version of the trials just for sight-seeing story people like myself. I just don't see them taking the time to do it, is all. But who knows; maybe they will.I figure I'll try the first or second difficulty tiers--just to see. Will I stay on it? Probably not.
I'll try them out, all of them, just to see how much of a difference it makes. Which would probably entertain me for, what, an hour perhaps? If at all. But then I'll likely change it back to normal for most of the time, with the possibility of choosing a slightly higher one if there's a new zone story next year.
Though I'm not even sure if that would work out well, in terms of immersion, if then some other random player with normal difficulty selected might walk by and kill the enemy npcs as easily as ever. It's a multiplayer game, I'm really not sure if having different difficulty options works here. Do other MMOs have that?
LotRO has it, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't cause any of the anguish I've seen people fretting about on these forums. It works out just fine. Since people can already kill mobs faster than other people, I don't see what the big deal is.As for Sheogorath, I was surprised that the outline of the story got me interested in it. Since I really don't like how he's been portrayed in ESO so far, I wasn't looking forward to his return. However, now I'm curious. I really hope it's not just more 'oh, Sheogorath, he's so quirky!' and 'cheese!' I believe 'chaos ensues' was mentioned in relation to it, and how that chaos is represented is what will make it or break it for me. There's a lot of potential in the outline of the story, and I'm very curious as to what the lore explanations for some of it will be. He's somehow side-stepping the Coldharbour Compact, and I wonder if that will be touched upon.
If you want to see the visuals once more, there's actually a short 2-minute trailer about this year's content:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVjE88kBxwk
Apart from the Sheogorath shrine in that new house they talked about in yesterday's stream (where it looks like Sheogorath was summoned), there's: Sheogorath smelling cheese. Sheogorath doing some goofy walk at the cheese festival near Dubdil-Alar tower on Vvardenfell. Sheogorath watching dogs sitting at a Tales of Tribute table (clearly meme-ing those "dogs playing Poker" paintings by Cassius Marcellus Coolidge) somewhere on Vvardenfell. Something in an Ayleid ruin. Floating tables, again on Vvardenfell (probably the same tavern where the dog scene takes place), and that's it. Also looks like there's a male Bosmer around, probably the character who summoned Sheogorath? Maybe I should also mention this in the lore thread.
Anyway, while I'm curious, the trailer (but it's just a short trailer, yes - I don't want to already judge the content before it's even released either) looks like the focus would rather be quirkyness, and less some deeper lore characterization of Sheogorath, or interesting questions to think about (like the relations between mortals and daedra, or about being human), or anything about the Coldharbor Compact (they might want to keep that a mystery - also, I think the whole story this year is just too short to reasonably tackle that topic; I took notes during yesterday's stream and those say "Sheogorath = 6 quests, Thieves = 8 quests; how much time might that even be? If it's just half an hour each like the Solstice main quests were, that would be 7 hours total?).
Trailers always emphasize eye-catching scenes, so I wouldn't automatically assume the entire quest is going to be that way. Granted, it might be, but a few trailer images isn't really enough for me to go on.
For me it's not really about how many quests are in the chain (although 8 is about the same number for a main quest in a chapter, isn't it?), but how in-depth they are. One quest can include several stages to it, after all. I do hope it has some deeper thoughts and lore to it than just 'quirky Sheo."I would hope people who don't like puzzles just wouldn't bother with the Sages Vault or rumors. Kind of how like I don't like PvP, so I don't bother with it. Not every bit of content has to be for everyone--in fact, trying to make it for everyone leads to more disappointment than not, I think.
I, too, ignore the parts of the game I'm not interested in, like PvP. If there's some reward I'd find fitting for one of my characters roleplay-wise, I do think it's a pity I will never get it, but it's fine, I don't bother with it for longer.
But I know there are lots of people who want to have everything, or just complete every content, so I'm sure there will be people who will complain about being "forced" to do that puzzle content. Actually I've already seen comments after the stream from some people, about how much they hate puzzles and don't want to be "bothered" with them in ESO.
I also agree that trying to make everything appeal to everyone will only lead it to be unsatisfying for everyone, including the people who would be interested in it normally. Not everything needs to appeal to every single player, especially in such a big game with many different systems and playstyles. Making puzzles super easy for people who don't really like puzzles makes no sense. Dumbing down storywriting for people who actually don't like reading or listening to stories doesn't make sense either.
The only thing I'd advocate for was not mixing up systems and their rewards too much - like needing to complete ToT achievements to get something useful for PvP, or needing to complete a vet dungeon for some simple housing item (which is not a replica of a specific artifact from that dungeon, or a trophy or similar - that would be totally fine). I know they try to push people to play all kinds of different content by this, but it's only frustrating. I for sure don't want to play a system I absolutely dislike only to get something useful for a system I enjoy. Would feel like a waste of time. I'd rather see rewards being useful for exactly that specific system they were acquired with, or, in case of housing stuff or mementos or similar, closely related in topic to that specific thing they were earned with. I, personally, can in the end just ignore a thing if I know I'll never complete the needed achievement for it anyway, but I see it leads to complaints in the forum and a bad mood among the players so often, which could, in many cases, easily be avoided.
One reason I will never have a complete antiquities codex is because quite a few leads are put behind things I don't like to do, and won't use my game time doing. I really like the antiquities system, and getting the bits of lore that come with the Circle's notes, but if I dislike an activity, and the lead drop is paired with rng anyway, that's a hard no from me. Well, I'm fine not having everything in game. I make my choices. I don't think anything will ever stop them from mixing systems and their rewards, however. They seem to want to encourage everyone to play every aspect of the game.The Sages Vault was nothing like what I thought it might be, and as for what it actually is--it's something I'm really going to have to experience to know if I will like it or not. The idea of an ever-changing place could be good, or it could just be frustrating. Making your way through not by combat but by puzzle solving and such of course depends on the puzzles and how well they're implemented. I hope there are no jumping puzzles, because jumping in this game doesn't work very well. To be clear, I find the idea of the Sages Vault very interesting, but I won't know whether it's for me or not until I actually try it out.
I'm curious about it. I don't think it can be too difficult, as the average person should be able to complete it? We'll see! Still a bit sad the Sages Vauls is not about time-travelling or parallel realities, though
Haha, so am I, but realistically I think that was asking for a little bit too much from the vault.I'm eager to see how well I do at rumors, too. I wonder just how mysterious they're going to be, and just how puzzle-oriented. l'll certainly do my best to figure them out, but if I can't, I have a secret weapon: my husband has puzzle brain, so if I ever get stuck I can always demand he solve it for me.
What we saw so far looked good to me. Very curious, especially also about the different endings!
Yes, I thought that was very interesting, especially the part about it being related to how you might choose to play your character. It sounds like they are really trying to lean into some of the rp elements of the game.I like Urcelmo well enough--we haven't really done much with him, though. He's just there in several quests, in the background. I hope Arabelle is less patronizing this time. The other specific npc they showed was Holgunn--he's an interesting character, I think. Mostly I think it's great they're using some of the other npcs of the world for this, and hopefully the stories develop their characters more.
I'm fine with Holgunn, neutral about Urcelmo, and I dislike Arabelle (not sure why, but I really never found Bretons interesting, or the Daggerfall Covenant as a whole - those were also my least favorite zones). Isn't it strange, by the way, that, while clearly doing one person per war faction, they chose Arabelle, who only comes up in the High Isle story, for the Covenant? Was there no one else of interest for that faction?
I was, by the way, a bit disappointed in yesterday's stream that it's only three people - I thought it were more. Though at least they already said they plan on adding more people to that system in the future; hopefully also some I personally find more interesting. I had hoped for the Vanos siblings somehow (especially since they came up in the current Tome rewards again, out of the blue), or Revus Or perhaps Divayth. The Ravenwatch could also ask for help in some matters, or any other faction, really. We could also get a bit more content for the Mages Guild here, apart from bringing back the same few artifacts that disappear every single day. Or something Fighters Guild related, who only have those dolmen quests so far.
I think three is a good start to the system. As for why they chose those particular npcs, I would say because they're notable enough to be remembered, but they haven't actually had much to do overall. Other Daggerfall npcs...seems like in the Covenant zones we spent a lot of time solving problems for the nobility and royalty and ghosts. Doubt Emeric would show up on the favors board. Darien is out of the running because of his Solstice story and being a fan-favorite already. Would one of the Wyrd npcs be a good candidate for the favors board? Seems like ZOS chose npcs who were around a bit in more than one zone, but hadn't yet been featured otherwise, except of course for Arabelle. But honestly I can't really think of a very notable Covenant npc that fits the same mold as Urcelmo and Holgunn. Well, my loyalties lie mostly with the Dominion, and secondarily with the Pact, so...I'm not a good source for viable Covenant npcs.I was a bit confused about the part about "favors that we might have already completed before accepting them" (which then would lead to a thank-you-letter immediately without the need to do anything). How would the game track that? Are some of these favors basically just tasks from the achievement list?
That was the bit where they were talking about how there are quests in the game that very few people have ever discovered and done (at one point they said less than 5% of the playerbase) and so some of these favors will point you towards those quests for your task. If you're one of the few who has done it, that's when you'll get the thank-you and reward without having to actually trek out to wherever and do the quest.What do you think about the poster furnishing rewards, by the way? Has your character ever felt the need to hang Lady Arabelle to a lamppost? A picture of her, I mean Though of course, those pictures could also be used to adorn archery targets, for example. And for player characters with friendlier dispositions, maybe there should be empty picture frames available for gold at some merchant?
I like getting the posters as furnishings, because unique furnishings are fun. I will say, when they first said that, and since the Arabelle poster was on screen, I did think: I bet Syldras would use that one as a dartboard. Or you could use them when you set up your bounty-hunting business and put those posters up alongside the generic bounty one you steal from the guards. But at least one of my characters would put up Urcelmo's poster as a kind of tribute to the npc. She already thinks he's the perfect poster advertisement for the glory of the Aldmeri Dominion, after all.They didn't really say much about the random events, did they? I'm wondering what those will look like and how easy it'll be to know when they're active. It'll certainly be something to look out for.
From what we've seen in the last stream, it really is comparable to how it was in Fallout 76. A little less complex, perhaps, in that example with the stable. But it's not like they couldn't make some more complicated ones over time (also, we don't know how the others look yet). I was also surprised/disappointed it were only 3 so far - as with the Favors, I thought it were more. Probably because they term "system" made me expect a bigger scope, based on how system introductions looked like in the past; though it's still correct, of course, it's a new system, and it was one even if it was only 1 location (or questgiver in case of Favors). Generally, I like the principle, though, and I'm looking forward to more places getting added over time!
I'm guessing the three are just the introduction--one in each of the first zones for each alliance. They did say that the one they showed was a small/short one. The other two are longer; I think they equated them to medium and large. So a small variety of events to start us off with.They're not hyping up the High Seas event like they did the Writhing Wall. I do think some expectations about it are already a little too high--I really don't see us being able to sail ships. I think the major portion of it will be utilizing those underwater mechanics, where we walk along the sea floor in an air bubble.
It's true ZOS didn't hype it, but players do expect too much from what I've seen on the forums, and it might help to counter that a bit? Especially if a bigger hype develops over time.
I mostly expect it to be combat on ships, with some of that air bubble stuff. Which isn't new, but also came up in the Necrom prologue, and in some dungeon or trial, from what I heard.
Players always expect too much. When the High Isle trailer released, people immediately jumped to "naval battles!" Some even still claim the trailer made it seem like we would be getting naval battles. That didn't occur to me at all when I saw that trailer.As far as one-time events in the game go, it's not as if this would be the first, if it is one-time. Those chapter celebrations they used to do, where there were community goals to reach to unlock rewards: those were one-time, and people loved those. I know this is somewhat different in that they've created a new area for it, but I don't think one-time events are, in and of themselves, bad. Plus, they want to experiment with content, and this is one way to do it. If they try this, and it turns out people hate it, why keep it? Better to ditch it than leave it languishing in game as an underdeveloped system.
It just feels like a waste to me, considering all the time and efforts that go into creating a new area.
I can understand stopping to add something to a system if it's not successful, but how does removing it again help? It means quests that can't be completed anymore, disappeared lore and dialogues and possibly also lorebooks, achievements, rewards.
Also, there are always people who like something, even if it might not be generally popular. I don't think ToT was a huge success, but the people who love it would surely not be happy about it being removed from the game one day, just because most people don't play it anymore. Removing it again really doesn't improve anything, from my point of view, since all those efforts already went into it. Then they can as well keep it, for those who do like it.
Let alone that after the backlash from introducing the Wall event last year as a one-time event, there were posts from ZOS that said this was the only time-limited content and all other content they produce will remain in game. And then they introduced the Night Market. And now this. Perhaps there wasn't enough backlash yet.
I think ToT is fairly popular, but I don't know what a system that is a huge success even looks like from our perspective. How would we know how many people are actually playing and enjoying ToT?
I'm not saying they should remove systems that have been in the game already for awhile even if they aren't popular. But if they introduce something new and tell us it's an experiment, I don't see the problem with them not making it permanent if it doesn't work out.I guess I just consider missing events or certain types of content par for the course when it comes to live service games. I also feel that if I'm not playing a game when a certain one-time event is around, it's because I'm not interested in the game at the time, and so not experiencing the thing doesn't matter.
If it's only a 1- or 2-week event, it can easily be missed for family or health reasons. Sure, those are more important than a game, but it's still a pity if it's content one actually would have found really interesting.
It's also unfortunate because ESO is a TES game and as such, all lore gets recorded on UESP and remains there forever. News ESO players will come across it later, but not be able to actually ever experience it (just like it's the case already now with the TES Legends stories, for example). I'm just not sure if disappearing content really fits such a story- and lore-heavy game with an ongoing story.
I'm not sure how much lore and story is attached to this event, but if it's recorded on UESP at some point, then it doesn't go away. People can still read about it if they want to. If they can't experience it--well, that's the way it sometimes goes. I'll never get to experience those old veteran levels that ESO initially had. I wasn't around for it.They called it an excursion zone, but didn't explain what they meant by that. That's fine, since it's still so far out, and they're probably still defining what exactly that will be.
I'm wondering if it's more like some short story trip with a clearly defined route, or more open and about landscape/zone exploration. There was a thread somewhere that brought up that "excursion" meant "a short leisure trip" in English, where I asked if that's the only definition (as it means something different in German), but unfortunately, I never got an answer.
It's not the only definition, no. It's probably the most recognized/used one, but I wouldn't build on it to set my expectations for the zone. Here's another definition: a deviation from a regular activity or course. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the name for it at this point. I'll wait for them to release more information on it. From what ZOS has said so far, I expect it to be more exploration focused than the usual list of objectives that have come with zones. There's still a lot of time before we get it, meaning a lot of time for them to make changes/refine what they want it to be.It sounds interesting enough, and the Skyrim storms they mentioned made me wonder if they're going to be doing more with weather effects.
The way they introduced it as a point of this year's content, rather central for the third season, it surely must be more than just "normal" weather?
I would think so. Maybe a whole new weather system.
*sigh* Why do you hate animals?I'm completely unfamiliar with the two community members they had at the roundtables--are they streamers? From everything they said, I got the idea they're both leaders of very large in-game communities as well, and they were representing the voices of players who aren't streamers. So I think what they brought to the (round) table was more than just 'streamer opinions'. I do like that ZOS is engaging with the community more, and I think they're paying attention to all facets of that community to some degree.
They introduced them as streamers. But I didn't even mean the roundtable discussion. I meant the statements at the very beginning of the first part of the stream. Where they talked about involving players more, listening to feedback - and then it was immediately: We talked to streamers. And while streamers are a part of the community, they're not everything (even if some people act like they were). Yes, they often have their fan circles they interact with, but even a streamer and their following is only a part of the playerbase. There are many players who have no involvement with streamers whatsoever, and I hope these won't be forgotten.
Popular streamers are probably the most visible members of the community, but I don't think them having two streamers there for this meant they're only listening to streamers. As I mentioned, it seemed to me like those two people are the leaders of large in-game communities, and so are able to relay concerns players have--basically helping to get the average player's voice heard as well.
And I'm positive ZOS is listening to player feedback from a variety of sources.More House politics/maneuvering could make for a good story--not just Telvanni, but all of them. *Still hoping for a time when we can join a Great House in game.*
Yes I'd love to be able to let my characters officially join a House! Already found it a pity that it wasn't possible when the Morrowind chapter released. Also, it would be a different topic for once, not again some world-ending threat. Could be interesting, if well-written.
Unrelated to this, I really want a tavern room in Sadrith Mora
Maybe if we keep talking about a Great House system, we'll eventually get one!
Also, I think it would be neat to have tavern rooms available in places that aren't the captial cities of the zone.As for how we could learn how Gothren got where he is--ZOS has done quests before where we view past events (most notably the original Fighters Guild quest line). Since I doubt Gothren would share anything that personal with us, it would probably have to be from the perspective of a rival, trying to ferret out Gothren's secrets.
It honestly would be interesting. Even more so if it would not rely on the typical clichés.
That was a lot of babbling
Well, babbling is what we do best!
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭He probably just didn't trust any of his idiot cultists to do the job right.
So he sacrifices hundreds of people a day - all by himself? That's worse of a chore than the weekly endeavours tome tasks! And it doesn't even earn him some weird fantasy currency to buy himself a new sparkledeer from an invisible Imperial bazaar! All he got was that Coldharbor-style Cinderella castle full of nothing but Molag Bal's ugly statues of bald men in loincloths. If I were him, I would reconsider my life choices. Could have been statues of Vanny at least.None of my characters are the noble or influential type, so Mannimarco wouldn't have had anything to do with them.
So none of your characters were stabbed in the back during an important business dinner with Mannimarco?Playing a former cultist fallen from favor (probably for asking one too many questions!) is an interesting angle, for sure. Having to play dumb about the cult and all its shenanigans would fit right in with the Vestige's usual responses, too.
If I ever create a new character, I'll do that.As usual, after the first week, I get a little burned out on the daily crafting on all my characters. But I keep doing it, because who knows what motif I might stumble across? The mats are fine--I just add them to pile. I'm really just in it for the motifs.
I honestly played crafted a fews days with sound off now (which I normally never did, except for during that horrible first anniversary grind for those weapon and armor replicas), listening to music instead (and I wouldn't be surprised if other people do the same). For me, it's 90 minutes a day just for those crafting chores. And then Sunport dailies for Worm Cult furnishing plans, which doesn't even drop every day, and that's it. Well, I made that choice. Another 4-5 days.For me it's not really about how many quests are in the chain (although 8 is about the same number for a main quest in a chapter, isn't it?), but how in-depth they are. One quest can include several stages to it, after all. I do hope it has some deeper thoughts and lore to it than just 'quirky Sheo."
West and East Solstice had 11 altogether (West had 5, East 6). Necrom and Gold Road had 9 each. High Isle 7. Summerset and Vvardenfell also 7 each, but they were longer back then and had more stages inbetween. And I agree, what matters isn't the number. Still, I'm wondering what exactly the given numbers could mean for this year's content, how many hours that could be. Considering main quests tendentially got shorter, who knows.
And of course, also hours don't necessarily say anything about quality or depth, but if it's only, say, 3 hours, it makes it more difficult to write a more profound story or explore a lore topic in detail. Those things needs space, they also need time to develop reasonably - otherwise things feel rushed and we end up with that unconvincing emotional chaos like we saw in the Solstice prologue, where people went from mourning to hopeful to distraught and then hopeful again in a few minutes.One reason I will never have a complete antiquities codex is because quite a few leads are put behind things I don't like to do, and won't use my game time doing. I really like the antiquities system, and getting the bits of lore that come with the Circle's notes, but if I dislike an activity, and the lead drop is paired with rng anyway, that's a hard no from me. Well, I'm fine not having everything in game. I make my choices.
If it's something one finds really interesting, there's a chance now that the lead ends up at Filer Ool one day, at least. That's how I got my last part for the Dwemer mount because it just didn't want to drop from that stupid dungeon (Darkshade Caverns 2 it was, not even too difficult - I could solo it - , but honestly, at some point I was just fed up and didn't want to try it another time).
I'm also very selective when it comes to the Archive lead sale, though, as I really don't need everything, and Archive grind is also not exactly exciting.I don't think anything will ever stop them from mixing systems and their rewards, however. They seem to want to encourage everyone to play every aspect of the game.
More playtime overall means better stats, so it's understandable from a business perspective. But for many people who just don't enjoy every single of all vastly different activities ESO includes, it's just frustrating.Haha, so am I, but realistically I think that was asking for a little bit too much from the vault.
Why? In the end, one story quest is one story quest, no matter in which era or dimension it's supposed to take place. They could have set the Vault up as a story location with some mages trying to fix problems, or doing research, or whatever, sending you, as their assistant, to different dimensions or into the past to observe a specific event. They have already done Ayleid and Chimer npcs before, in projections or quests where you take the role of someone in the past. So why not some location that is exactly about that theme, maybe even just starting with a handful of quests, with the possibility to add more over the years? I think that's something that would work for ESO. And a great way to do something with lore that takes place outside of ESO's specific time.Yes, I thought that was very interesting, especially the part about it being related to how you might choose to play your character. It sounds like they are really trying to lean into some of the rp elements of the game.
I think it wasn't so much about choice, but about which idea the player gets about a hint? Basically different interpretations? Or the possibility to just get a clue wrong and fail the quest because of that?
I just hope the translations will be correct, then! The newest seasonal task still says "Kill 1000 enemies while grouped with another player" instead of refering to specific zones (not even sure how such a mistake is possible). I'd think that's a rather big mistake that should be fixed as fastly as possible. I'm not even sure when the next regular maintenance is. Nothing next week, according to the forum banner.Well, my loyalties lie mostly with the Dominion, and secondarily with the Pact, so...I'm not a good source for viable Covenant npcs.
I have no clue about the Covenant, either, especially about Breton regions. All I know is that their cities stink, are confusing, and all look more or less the sameThat was the bit where they were talking about how there are quests in the game that very few people have ever discovered and done (at one point they said less than 5% of the playerbase) and so some of these favors will point you towards those quests for your task. If you're one of the few who has done it, that's when you'll get the thank-you and reward without having to actually trek out to wherever and do the quest.
Quests? Well, I didn't hear it as I was just getting tea. But that makes sense. If there are quests that were done by less than 5% of players, I wonder how the percentages are for average main story quests? Or, for comparison, quests of newer chapters? I always wondered how many players might quit again before they've even finished one base game faction storyline. I'd be surprised if I had missed any of those quests, by the way.I like getting the posters as furnishings, because unique furnishings are fun.
I'm still waiting for real letter furnishing versions of the Hearts Day event companion letters!I will say, when they first said that, and since the Arabelle poster was on screen, I did think: I bet Syldras would use that one as a dartboard. Or you could use them when you set up your bounty-hunting business and put those posters up alongside the generic bounty one you steal from the guards.
We still need more bounty posters - of specific characters, most of all! I really need one of MannimarcoPlayers always expect too much. When the High Isle trailer released, people immediately jumped to "naval battles!" Some even still claim the trailer made it seem like we would be getting naval battles. That didn't occur to me at all when I saw that trailer.
Same. Most of all I always had the impression that naval battles just couldn't be handled by this game's engine, so that's on principle something I'd never expect (and if they ever get it done somehow, I'd be really surprised).I think ToT is fairly popular, but I don't know what a system that is a huge success even looks like from our perspective. How would we know how many people are actually playing and enjoying ToT?
Posts in these forums, on official and inofficial antisocial media sites, people present in taverns around ToT tables (at least before they disappear or when they reappear) or in that main gaming hall, leaderboards, random ToT PvP games,...? But I don't think it matters if we know; ZOS will have their internal stats, so they know how popular a system is or not.I'm not saying they should remove systems that have been in the game already for awhile even if they aren't popular. But if they introduce something new and tell us it's an experiment, I don't see the problem with them not making it permanent if it doesn't work out.
Those things they announced as temporary lately do look quite elaborate for some simple experiment, though. All the dialogues, voice acting, items, furnishings, lorebooks (what was it, almost 40?), puzzles, enemies, and all that, which they created for the Night Market, for example.It's not the only definition, no. It's probably the most recognized/used one, but I wouldn't build on it to set my expectations for the zone. Here's another definition: a deviation from a regular activity or course. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the name for it at this point. I'll wait for them to release more information on it. From what ZOS has said so far, I expect it to be more exploration focused than the usual list of objectives that have come with zones. There's still a lot of time before we get it, meaning a lot of time for them to make changes/refine what they want it to be.
What I find interesting is that in German, "excursion" absolutely doesn't have that leisure aspect at all. It's either educative (which would most closely translate to "field trip") or scholarly (which would translate to "research expedition"), and historically, some centuries ago, it also meant "short war campaign".I would think so. Maybe a whole new weather system.
Then people will demand a toggle for the weather*sigh* Why do you hate animals?
What makes you assume that? I treat my Bosmers well, I feed them appropriate meat, they even have real beds to sleep in!
And when my vet told me that my guar was already too old to draw a chariot, I went to Sadrith Mora to buy a Breton to replace it with! Wasn't as much fun, though. You have no idea how slow Bretons are!Maybe if we keep talking about a Great House system, we'll eventually get one!
We should write down a whole wishlist at this point.Also, I think it would be neat to have tavern rooms available in places that aren't the captial cities of the zone.
I also need one in Markarth. I really think it's a beautiful city, and would probably visit it more often if I had a room there.
Edited by Syldras on 11 April 2026 00:27@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
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He's got nothing better to do.That's worse of a chore than the weekly endeavours tome tasks! And it doesn't even earn him some weird fantasy currency to buy himself a new sparkledeer from an invisible Imperial bazaar! All he got was that Coldharbor-style Cinderella castle full of nothing but Molag Bal's ugly statues of bald men in loincloths. If I were him, I would reconsider my life choices. Could have been statues of Vanny at least.
We don't know what kind of currency Molag Bal was giving him for all those souls. Maybe he was working towards some lovely Vanny statues.
Not a one. Is that what happend to your characters?For me it's not really about how many quests are in the chain (although 8 is about the same number for a main quest in a chapter, isn't it?), but how in-depth they are. One quest can include several stages to it, after all. I do hope it has some deeper thoughts and lore to it than just 'quirky Sheo."
West and East Solstice had 11 altogether (West had 5, East 6). Necrom and Gold Road had 9 each. High Isle 7. Summerset and Vvardenfell also 7 each, but they were longer back then and had more stages inbetween. And I agree, what matters isn't the number. Still, I'm wondering what exactly the given numbers could mean for this year's content, how many hours that could be. Considering main quests tendentially got shorter, who knows.
And of course, also hours don't necessarily say anything about quality or depth, but if it's only, say, 3 hours, it makes it more difficult to write a more profound story or explore a lore topic in detail. Those things needs space, they also need time to develop reasonably - otherwise things feel rushed and we end up with that unconvincing emotional chaos like we saw in the Solstice prologue, where people went from mourning to hopeful to distraught and then hopeful again in a few minutes.
Sounds like it'll be smaller in scope than the whole Worm Cult's back/reverse planmeld/Mannimarco again story. Not so many story beats that need to be covered, perhaps, and so more room for the nuance. At least that's my hope.One reason I will never have a complete antiquities codex is because quite a few leads are put behind things I don't like to do, and won't use my game time doing. I really like the antiquities system, and getting the bits of lore that come with the Circle's notes, but if I dislike an activity, and the lead drop is paired with rng anyway, that's a hard no from me. Well, I'm fine not having everything in game. I make my choices.
If it's something one finds really interesting, there's a chance now that the lead ends up at Filer Ool one day, at least. That's how I got my last part for the Dwemer mount because it just didn't want to drop from that stupid dungeon (Darkshade Caverns 2 it was, not even too difficult - I could solo it - , but honestly, at some point I was just fed up and didn't want to try it another time).
I'm also very selective when it comes to the Archive lead sale, though, as I really don't need everything, and Archive grind is also not exactly exciting.
I think I bought one or two leads from there--it was awhile ago. I just don't want to spend my game time in the archive, though.Haha, so am I, but realistically I think that was asking for a little bit too much from the vault.
Why? In the end, one story quest is one story quest, no matter in which era or dimension it's supposed to take place. They could have set the Vault up as a story location with some mages trying to fix problems, or doing research, or whatever, sending you, as their assistant, to different dimensions or into the past to observe a specific event. They have already done Ayleid and Chimer npcs before, in projections or quests where you take the role of someone in the past. So why not some location that is exactly about that theme, maybe even just starting with a handful of quests, with the possibility to add more over the years? I think that's something that would work for ESO. And a great way to do something with lore that takes place outside of ESO's specific time.
My view is that story quests don't work with a system they intend to be evergreen. It sounds to me like they want it to be a system that people keep playing over and over, not the one and done that comes with story quests. (I don't claim to know how their resources are allocated, but it does seem like creating a bunch of different story quests would take a lot more resources than creating a repeatable puzzle space.) Before we knew what it was going to be, sure, I thought quests throughout time would be a lot of fun. Knowing now what they intend it to be, that kind of questing doesn't work with their plan. So my view of what the Sages Vault could be shifted.Yes, I thought that was very interesting, especially the part about it being related to how you might choose to play your character. It sounds like they are really trying to lean into some of the rp elements of the game.
I think it wasn't so much about choice, but about which idea the player gets about a hint? Basically different interpretations? Or the possibility to just get a clue wrong and fail the quest because of that?
That was part of it, but I'm pretty sure he mentioned differences based on how you might play your character as well. Also that there would be secret endings you might get depending on how well you paid attention.I just hope the translations will be correct, then! The newest seasonal task still says "Kill 1000 enemies while grouped with another player" instead of refering to specific zones (not even sure how such a mistake is possible). I'd think that's a rather big mistake that should be fixed as fastly as possible. I'm not even sure when the next regular maintenance is. Nothing next week, according to the forum banner.
That's a weird one, all right. I know some tome fixes are going to be in an incremental patch, but I don't know when that patch will be.That was the bit where they were talking about how there are quests in the game that very few people have ever discovered and done (at one point they said less than 5% of the playerbase) and so some of these favors will point you towards those quests for your task. If you're one of the few who has done it, that's when you'll get the thank-you and reward without having to actually trek out to wherever and do the quest.
Quests? Well, I didn't hear it as I was just getting tea. But that makes sense. If there are quests that were done by less than 5% of players, I wonder how the percentages are for average main story quests? Or, for comparison, quests of newer chapters? I always wondered how many players might quit again before they've even finished one base game faction storyline. I'd be surprised if I had missed any of those quests, by the way.
l was surprised when he said there were quests in the game that no one had ever found--but perhaps he misspoke and meant very few people had ever found. Or I misheard. Anyway, he did later say fewer than 5%. I wasn't sure if the favor would be only to do that quest, or if that was just part of it. I'm curious if there are any I might have missed. Funnily enough, today I came across a small quest on Stros M'kai that my main had somehow missed all those years ago. Dead body tucked away in a cave, crumpled note clutched in fist, memento to deliver--that kind of thing.
That would be nice! Also permanent copies of Bastian and Mirri's letters.I will say, when they first said that, and since the Arabelle poster was on screen, I did think: I bet Syldras would use that one as a dartboard. Or you could use them when you set up your bounty-hunting business and put those posters up alongside the generic bounty one you steal from the guards.
We still need more bounty posters - of specific characters, most of all! I really need one of Mannimarco
You'd also need to have a running tally on the Mannimarco poster, because dude keeps coming back!I think ToT is fairly popular, but I don't know what a system that is a huge success even looks like from our perspective. How would we know how many people are actually playing and enjoying ToT?
Posts in these forums, on official and inofficial antisocial media sites, people present in taverns around ToT tables (at least before they disappear or when they reappear) or in that main gaming hall, leaderboards, random ToT PvP games,...? But I don't think it matters if we know; ZOS will have their internal stats, so they know how popular a system is or not.
Do you reall pay that much attention to the ToT tables in taverns? I don't. I certainly don't watch to see how many people show up to use them. As for posts on social media--there's no way of knowing if everyone who plays ToT posts about it. Regardless, I know it doesn't matter if we know--I was just curious how you judge ToT to not be popular. I have no real hard evidence for my idea that it is popular, either--it's just an assumption I made. I also know that ZOS knows all the stats for everything we do in game--they see all.I'm not saying they should remove systems that have been in the game already for awhile even if they aren't popular. But if they introduce something new and tell us it's an experiment, I don't see the problem with them not making it permanent if it doesn't work out.
Those things they announced as temporary lately do look quite elaborate for some simple experiment, though. All the dialogues, voice acting, items, furnishings, lorebooks (what was it, almost 40?), puzzles, enemies, and all that, which they created for the Night Market, for example.
I think they're hoping it's well-received and sticks around, so they put a lot into developing it. Better that than they present something that's bare-bones, I think. I have no idea how many lore books can be found there--I haven't read up on it to the extent you have. All I know about it is that there are factions, and fighting, and it's meant to be hard, and you get a house, and there are probably other rewards. I'm going to try it, and see what I think of it.It's not the only definition, no. It's probably the most recognized/used one, but I wouldn't build on it to set my expectations for the zone. Here's another definition: a deviation from a regular activity or course. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the name for it at this point. I'll wait for them to release more information on it. From what ZOS has said so far, I expect it to be more exploration focused than the usual list of objectives that have come with zones. There's still a lot of time before we get it, meaning a lot of time for them to make changes/refine what they want it to be.
What I find interesting is that in German, "excursion" absolutely doesn't have that leisure aspect at all. It's either educative (which would most closely translate to "field trip") or scholarly (which would translate to "research expedition"), and historically, some centuries ago, it also meant "short war campaign".
That is interesting. I would guess ZOS is thinking of the scholarly aspect of it rather than the short liesure trip part. Or maybe they reached into history and decided short war campaign fit. I imagine we'll be killing things there.
Of course! Toggles for everything! Toggles for all!*sigh* Why do you hate animals?
What makes you assume that? I treat my Bosmers well, I feed them appropriate meat, they even have real beds to sleep in!
And when my vet told me that my guar was already too old to draw a chariot, I went to Sadrith Mora to buy a Breton to replace it with! Wasn't as much fun, though. You have no idea how slow Bretons are!
Um...that's...well, that's...something. I guess.
Markarth is pretty cool. I really like the design of that city. In Skyrim, the house we got there was where I would often move my family--you know, to keep them safe while I was off murdering dragons and such. No bandits come and kill your chickens in Markarth!
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We don't know what kind of currency Molag Bal was giving him for all those souls. Maybe he was working towards some lovely Vanny statues.
I want one, too! Alas, all I'll get for 1000 souls will be enough currency to buy half of a bat at the black market. I'm on page 5 now, by the way, currently unlocking page 6. And I think I'm at about 820 kills for the 1000 kills task. Isn't it strange how these tasks make the Vestige probably the worst mass murderer of all Tamriel? Now, if I could become the new champion of Molag Bal (in Mannimarco's absence) and soultrap all these people and send them to him,... Or maybe I could create a funny Wall around Kelesan'ruhn with all these souls. What remains will be funneled into Mannimarco who's still waiting for his resurrection in the basement. And afterwards, we can harvest souls together - how romantic!
But seriously, these mass murder tasks don't really help with immersion, from my point of view.Not a one. Is that what happend to your characters?
At least to one of them, yes.Sounds like it'll be smaller in scope than the whole Worm Cult's back/reverse planmeld/Mannimarco again story. Not so many story beats that need to be covered, perhaps, and so more room for the nuance. At least that's my hope.
We'll see. I'm also already very curious about the writing for the Night Market. I've heard there's supposed to be a lot of dialogue; and the dozens of lorebooks I already mentioned will also be interesting. Sure, it's a different style of writing than longer questline story writing, but I think it could give us a few hints already about tendencies. Or, well, perhaps not, considering there is sometimes quite a difference in writing quality between specific quests... Well, we'll know more in about a week! And then it's how long until the next story contents? Early July, or when do those get released?I think I bought one or two leads from there--it was awhile ago. I just don't want to spend my game time in the archive, though.
With no real story attached to it, it's also not interesting content for me. Yes, yes, I know, the thing with Thoat Replicanum, but that's a rather short story and only interesting the first time, while the Archive is designed to be played hundreds of times (potentially). I'm honestly not sure if anything could actually interest me in the Archive more. Even if they add new backdrops, enemies and watchling voice lines, everything new would be discovered within a few days, and then it's boring again. Can't even use it for companion levelling anymore, because there's no interesting companion left to level for me. If we ever see new ones? Who knows.My view is that story quests don't work with a system they intend to be evergreen. It sounds to me like they want it to be a system that people keep playing over and over, not the one and done that comes with story quests. (I don't claim to know how their resources are allocated, but it does seem like creating a bunch of different story quests would take a lot more resources than creating a repeatable puzzle space.)
I wonder if there's a system that could actually keep people busy for years? Doesn't it always get boring after a while? (As I said, without narrative content, it might even get boring faster for me personally, than if there was some story attached to it).
I agree about the cost issue, by the way. I already wondered if the Favor system isn't basically also a bit of a method to produce story content less costly - giving us tasks from a writ board without a need for long dialogues with the questgiver character, and without the need for voice acting. Not that I generally mind that; but I hope that won't be the main method of giving us story quests from now on.
It's actually a bit sad. I also believe by now that having no random commoner npc dialogue in Solstice anymore could possibly also have been based on budget reasons (you know that at first I believed it to be a bug, but that surely would have been long fixed by now!). I was about to write that I'd rather see them return to the old design where every npc had some dialogue line, at least - but how likely is that? I mean, we don't even regularly get zones anymore, but even when we get one, perhaps a smaller one, again, how lively and immerse will the main town design be? Especially considering that from some year on, we got less and less every year, not more. Sad indeed, thinking back at how I thought, during the times of Morrowind and Summerset, that things would get even greater and better in the future.That's a weird one, all right. I know some tome fixes are going to be in an incremental patch, but I don't know when that patch will be.
It's still not patched, by the way. Still the wrong seasonal task description for German, and, as I've seen being mentioned, for French as well.l was surprised when he said there were quests in the game that no one had ever found--but perhaps he misspoke and meant very few people had ever found. Or I misheard. Anyway, he did later say fewer than 5%. I wasn't sure if the favor would be only to do that quest, or if that was just part of it. I'm curious if there are any I might have missed. Funnily enough, today I came across a small quest on Stros M'kai that my main had somehow missed all those years ago. Dead body tucked away in a cave, crumpled note clutched in fist, memento to deliver--that kind of thing.
Have you completed the Sweetroll Killer quest at the Gold Coast? I've heard that's one that many people missed. And another small one somewhere in Morrowind (not sure if it was Stonefalls) about a Dunmer with a fascination with Winged Twilights. That's actually one that I, too, had missed during my regular playthrough, and just found at some later point, when returning to the zone for some crafting survey.That would be nice! Also permanent copies of Bastian and Mirri's letters.
Yes! Those two really need to be updated to be on par with the later companions. Even better, they could all get new quests and functionalities! Not sure if it would be doable to add a new quest to all companions at the same time - probably not; but I want to see more content added sometime in the future, at least, even if it might be spread out over several years.You'd also need to have a running tally on the Mannimarco poster, because dude keeps coming back!
It needs a normal Mannimarco variant, a Wormy variant, and a third one for whatever iteration we'll see the next time. So far, I prefer the first oneDo you reall pay that much attention to the ToT tables in taverns? I don't. I certainly don't watch to see how many people show up to use them.
If I'm in taverns to acquire things, I remain perceptive of my surroundings Sometimes, it's worth it, often not.That is interesting. I would guess ZOS is thinking of the scholarly aspect of it rather than the short liesure trip part. Or maybe they reached into history and decided short war campaign fit. I imagine we'll be killing things there.
I really have no clue. It could also be the opposite: a short and very confined visit, closely following a specific plotline. We also know nothing about the map size. People always assume landscape when thinking of zones, but what if it's perhaps just the city, surrounded by a city wall on three sides, and the ocean to the fourth? It wouldn't even be the first TES story release consisting of a city only - thinking of the TES 3 Tribunal dlc (okay, it was Mournhold, plus the ruins beneath, plus some part of CWC - but still, you wouldn't ever pass through the city gates and see anything of the landscape beyond). I wouldn't even be against that on principle, if the city alone is atmospheric enough and provides enough quests and other things to do. Who knows, maybe it will even just be the College of Winterhold? Though I think many people would be rather disappointed about the scope then.Markarth is pretty cool. I really like the design of that city. In Skyrim, the house we got there was where I would often move my family--you know, to keep them safe while I was off murdering dragons and such. No bandits come and kill your chickens in Markarth!
I liked the design a lot, but for some reason, I still prefered my own house somewhere. I usually chose Lakeview Manor. No chickens, as they would get killed anyway. And I used that one mod to assign a whole bunch of companions to that house for defense. Also, who doesn't want to live in a house full of Bosmer?
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭We don't know what kind of currency Molag Bal was giving him for all those souls. Maybe he was working towards some lovely Vanny statues.
I want one, too! Alas, all I'll get for 1000 souls will be enough currency to buy half of a bat at the black market. I'm on page 5 now, by the way, currently unlocking page 6. And I think I'm at about 820 kills for the 1000 kills task. Isn't it strange how these tasks make the Vestige probably the worst mass murderer of all Tamriel? Now, if I could become the new champion of Molag Bal (in Mannimarco's absence) and soultrap all these people and send them to him,... Or maybe I could create a funny Wall around Kelesan'ruhn with all these souls. What remains will be funneled into Mannimarco who's still waiting for his resurrection in the basement. And afterwards, we can harvest souls together - how romantic!
But seriously, these mass murder tasks don't really help with immersion, from my point of view.
I honestly don't know if I'll get the kill 1000 task done (on either account). One tome point per kill isn't really very motivating if one is after the points (and I'm pretty sure I'll get enough points over the course of the season to not miss those 1000). I do have one character playing the Hew's Bane content, but a lot of that is sneak-thief stuff that doesn't involve killing, and the places one might go that do involve killing (delves/instanced content) don't count for the tally. I don't have any other characters whose paths are going to take them to any of the zones, and I'm not going to alter my plans for them just to complete a chore.
On the whole, and considering the issues with this particular task, I would call it poorly designed and sloppily implemented. I really hope further seasonal tasks are better.Sounds like it'll be smaller in scope than the whole Worm Cult's back/reverse planmeld/Mannimarco again story. Not so many story beats that need to be covered, perhaps, and so more room for the nuance. At least that's my hope.
We'll see. I'm also already very curious about the writing for the Night Market. I've heard there's supposed to be a lot of dialogue; and the dozens of lorebooks I already mentioned will also be interesting. Sure, it's a different style of writing than longer questline story writing, but I think it could give us a few hints already about tendencies. Or, well, perhaps not, considering there is sometimes quite a difference in writing quality between specific quests... Well, we'll know more in about a week! And then it's how long until the next story contents? Early July, or when do those get released?
I'm not sure of the release schedule. My impatient side says, "Not soon enough!"My view is that story quests don't work with a system they intend to be evergreen. It sounds to me like they want it to be a system that people keep playing over and over, not the one and done that comes with story quests. (I don't claim to know how their resources are allocated, but it does seem like creating a bunch of different story quests would take a lot more resources than creating a repeatable puzzle space.)
I wonder if there's a system that could actually keep people busy for years? Doesn't it always get boring after a while? (As I said, without narrative content, it might even get boring faster for me personally, than if there was some story attached to it).
I agree about the cost issue, by the way. I already wondered if the Favor system isn't basically also a bit of a method to produce story content less costly - giving us tasks from a writ board without a need for long dialogues with the questgiver character, and without the need for voice acting. Not that I generally mind that; but I hope that won't be the main method of giving us story quests from now on.
Don't we interact with the npcs for favors? Or is it all just via the board? Well, I don't mind a few quests here and there without voice acting--especially if it makes sense that we don't need to actually talk to someone first to do the favor.
As far as systems keeping people entertained/busy, antiquities does a good job of that--at least for me. I'll never complete the codex (and I'm fine with that) but it is fun to come across new leads, even if they are for mythics I don't care about as a whole. We still get the Circle's insights on the items, and I like the idea that some antiquities are "duds"--from my character's perspective.
The Sages Vault sounds like it might have better luck at being entertaining at keeping us busy, since it changes layout and such--but again, that could also be frustrating rather than fun. I don't know how much story/lore/narrative there will be to it.It's actually a bit sad. I also believe by now that having no random commoner npc dialogue in Solstice anymore could possibly also have been based on budget reasons (you know that at first I believed it to be a bug, but that surely would have been long fixed by now!). I was about to write that I'd rather see them return to the old design where every npc had some dialogue line, at least - but how likely is that? I mean, we don't even regularly get zones anymore, but even when we get one, perhaps a smaller one, again, how lively and immerse will the main town design be? Especially considering that from some year on, we got less and less every year, not more. Sad indeed, thinking back at how I thought, during the times of Morrowind and Summerset, that things would get even greater and better in the future.
Since they're released from the pressure of full chapters, it's possible the content we do get will be more fleshed out/detailed. I'm not so concerned about the lack of new zones, really. Of course I'd like to see the map filled out, and to experience new areas, but I don't think a new zone is necessary for good content. We'll see with the two upcoming quest lines how it plays out.That's a weird one, all right. I know some tome fixes are going to be in an incremental patch, but I don't know when that patch will be.
It's still not patched, by the way. Still the wrong seasonal task description for German, and, as I've seen being mentioned, for French as well.
Yeah, they didn't have a patch last week--or any maintenance at all, I think. No clue when that incremental is going to be patched in, but considering the season still has, what, two and a half months to run, there's time.l was surprised when he said there were quests in the game that no one had ever found--but perhaps he misspoke and meant very few people had ever found. Or I misheard. Anyway, he did later say fewer than 5%. I wasn't sure if the favor would be only to do that quest, or if that was just part of it. I'm curious if there are any I might have missed. Funnily enough, today I came across a small quest on Stros M'kai that my main had somehow missed all those years ago. Dead body tucked away in a cave, crumpled note clutched in fist, memento to deliver--that kind of thing.
Have you completed the Sweetroll Killer quest at the Gold Coast? I've heard that's one that many people missed. And another small one somewhere in Morrowind (not sure if it was Stonefalls) about a Dunmer with a fascination with Winged Twilights. That's actually one that I, too, had missed during my regular playthrough, and just found at some later point, when returning to the zone for some crafting survey.
It's been a very long time since I quested in Gold Coast, but I think I did the Sweetroll Killer quest. It sounds familiar. I'm not sure about the Winged Twilights, one--it's not ringing any bells.That would be nice! Also permanent copies of Bastian and Mirri's letters.
Yes! Those two really need to be updated to be on par with the later companions. Even better, they could all get new quests and functionalities! Not sure if it would be doable to add a new quest to all companions at the same time - probably not; but I want to see more content added sometime in the future, at least, even if it might be spread out over several years.
I really hope they don't abandon the companion system. It's not that I don't like it as is, but it could be better. If they could work out some small interactive moments with companions--like if you go into an inn and sit down, your companion also sits--that would please me and make it feel more like they truly are companions. Or what if the companions would occasionally have suggestions of something to do? Mirri might ask if we could go explore a daedric ruin, or some such--a small breadcrumb that would fit with the companion's personality and maybe give the player a little bonus for following the suggestion. (But I already see the problem with something like that. People will complain about being "forced" to do what the companion wants, and etc. instead of just not doing the thing and living without any reward one might get from it.)
Mostly, though, I just want them to keep adding to the companion system, making it better and more immersive. Just small things here and there, even--not expecting huge updates to it.
I took a character through Sancre Tor this morning. Killed Mannimarco and of course his spirit pops right back up and taunts us, saying: oh, big necromancer here, won't stay dead! Then of course Molag Bal opened an anchor circle right there and took his spirit away. And I thought to myself: wait, wasn't there supposed to be a part where he turns into a lich and we fight him? Because that didn't happen. And then I thought: am I just mixing up my necromancers and battles with them? Also, why did Molag Bal just let us go? Did he only have power for one soul, and Mannimarco's was the most important?
Here's something I thought was interesting: when Mannimarco is man-splaining his evil plans to us, and shows projections of himself as a god and every leader kneeling down to him, instead of Kurog representing the Orcs, it was Bazrag, since my character had already completed the Orisinium main quest. I thought that was a nice touch--that they went back and added that detail for the quest to recognize. Well done!That is interesting. I would guess ZOS is thinking of the scholarly aspect of it rather than the short liesure trip part. Or maybe they reached into history and decided short war campaign fit. I imagine we'll be killing things there.
I really have no clue. It could also be the opposite: a short and very confined visit, closely following a specific plotline. We also know nothing about the map size. People always assume landscape when thinking of zones, but what if it's perhaps just the city, surrounded by a city wall on three sides, and the ocean to the fourth? It wouldn't even be the first TES story release consisting of a city only - thinking of the TES 3 Tribunal dlc (okay, it was Mournhold, plus the ruins beneath, plus some part of CWC - but still, you wouldn't ever pass through the city gates and see anything of the landscape beyond). I wouldn't even be against that on principle, if the city alone is atmospheric enough and provides enough quests and other things to do. Who knows, maybe it will even just be the College of Winterhold? Though I think many people would be rather disappointed about the scope then.
I think people are assuming landscape because there was something about storms. The thing is, we know almost nothing about it so far, so there really is no saying what it will be. Not that I'd mind a full on College of Winterhold experience, but I think a lot of people (myself included) would be disappointed to not see Winterhold before it was wrecked.Markarth is pretty cool. I really like the design of that city. In Skyrim, the house we got there was where I would often move my family--you know, to keep them safe while I was off murdering dragons and such. No bandits come and kill your chickens in Markarth!
I liked the design a lot, but for some reason, I still prefered my own house somewhere. I usually chose Lakeview Manor. No chickens, as they would get killed anyway. And I used that one mod to assign a whole bunch of companions to that house for defense. Also, who doesn't want to live in a house full of Bosmer?
That really does depend on the Bosmer. Indaenir as a housemate? Yes! Green Lady? Eh, I guess she'd be ok, and you don't get the Silvenar without her. Eveli? No thanks. Any of the Vinedusk Rangers would be cool--I like them--though they might introduce a level of chaos I don't necessarily want. Cariel would be fine--if she ever forgives me for that Naemon incident.
Oh, speaking of npcs, I thought of someone from Daggerfall Covenant who would be good for the favors board: Brother Perry, from Pariah Abbey. He comes up in several side quests in Stormhaven, but we don't really spend a lot of time with him, so it would be a good way to get to know more about him. Preferably a little favor that doesn't involve him being a captive or injured. Although one of the times he was captured, he said he did it on purpose to learn more of the enemy's plans. I thought: sure you did, buddy. I've heard this line before. 0 -
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✭✭✭✭✭I honestly don't know if I'll get the kill 1000 task done (on either account). One tome point per kill isn't really very motivating if one is after the points (and I'm pretty sure I'll get enough points over the course of the season to not miss those 1000). I do have one character playing the Hew's Bane content, but a lot of that is sneak-thief stuff that doesn't involve killing, and the places one might go that do involve killing (delves/instanced content) don't count for the tally. I don't have any other characters whose paths are going to take them to any of the zones, and I'm not going to alter my plans for them just to complete a chore.
On the whole, and considering the issues with this particular task, I would call it poorly designed and sloppily implemented. I really hope further seasonal tasks are better.
I actually got it finished later on the day of my last post. I had already gotten almost half of the necessary kills from the weeklies of last week, and the rest was mostly running around killing bandits and harpies. Out-of-character, in a way, since I don't know why my character would be interested in randomly running around killing harpies in their habitat - but most of the chores are sadly that: out-of-character chores. Endeavours were the same, especially those about "kill x enemies of type y", or the Blade of Woe tasks. I wonder if it would actually be possible to give us chores that basically complete automatically while just playing the game normally? Probably not, as there's vastly different playstyles, so how "normal engagement with the game" looks like will be very different from person to person - so these tasks will almost always mean changing your usual plans for the task?
They also implemented a new seasonal chore today, which surprised me: Kill 100 bosses. I wonder if that's already related to the Night Market somehow? I had somehow expected something more specific for the Night Market release, also dropping right when the Market starts, not that much earlier.
Do you know how long seasonal tasks remain in the UI, by the way? My first seasonal (that one about getting event boxes) has disappeared from the menu, the second (about killing 1000 creatures) has not, despite both of them having been completed before the third one was added today. I know there's some countdown in the menu, which states the end of the season, but I'm wondering while one completed quest got removed from menu and the other one not.I'm not sure of the release schedule. My impatient side says, "Not soon enough!"
Don't the chores entertain you?Don't we interact with the npcs for favors? Or is it all just via the board? Well, I don't mind a few quests here and there without voice acting--especially if it makes sense that we don't need to actually talk to someone first to do the favor.
I've read there was some courier person handing us items if we need them for the request, at least sometimes? Well, I'm not on PTS during the current test cycle, so unless I see someone writing about it, I have no clue what will await us! I just hope it's plausible. Though of course I did wonder why the courier isn't just delivering that stuff themselves, if it's just a delivery quest anyway.As far as systems keeping people entertained/busy, antiquities does a good job of that--at least for me. I'll never complete the codex (and I'm fine with that) but it is fun to come across new leads, even if they are for mythics I don't care about as a whole. We still get the Circle's insights on the items, and I like the idea that some antiquities are "duds"--from my character's perspective.
When trying to get a specific lead, it can become quite an annoying grind sometimes. But generally, I like the antiquity system. I think it's a very interesting way to present lore.The Sages Vault sounds like it might have better luck at being entertaining at keeping us busy, since it changes layout and such--but again, that could also be frustrating rather than fun. I don't know how much story/lore/narrative there will be to it.
That's also something I've been wondering about. If there's not much story to it, I'd probably also lose interest after a while, even if I enjoy puzzle content. I'm generally wondering how much those layout changes will even matter. It surely won't be masses of different puzzles, so if it's, for example, a room with some obstacle and a lever puzzle - does it really matter if it's a dig, a drawbridge or a closed gate, or if the obstacle is on the right side or the left side of the room? If the principle of the puzzle is always the same, just changing visuals or slight differences in room design won't do it for me.Since they're released from the pressure of full chapters, it's possible the content we do get will be more fleshed out/detailed. I'm not so concerned about the lack of new zones, really. Of course I'd like to see the map filled out, and to experience new areas, but I don't think a new zone is necessary for good content. We'll see with the two upcoming quest lines how it plays out.
There's places in Tamriel I'd really love to see one day, but what matters most to me is the writing quality. If the writing was boring and the lore inconsistent and everything was basically a huge plot hole, I'd find it sad to see a zone "wasted". You can probably guess what locations I'd be interested in - well, I'd rather see convincing writing first, so I don't have to feel wary if we ever get there!
Have you seen the questline description for the Sheogorath questline yet? I've posted it in the lore thread. Not sure if you already want to see it, as it's still a few months to go (and I put it in spoiler tags just in case), but it doesn't give details, anyway. Only the base premise, in a way. Though that could also already be discussed.I really hope they don't abandon the companion system. It's not that I don't like it as is, but it could be better. If they could work out some small interactive moments with companions--like if you go into an inn and sit down, your companion also sits--that would please me and make it feel more like they truly are companions. Or what if the companions would occasionally have suggestions of something to do? Mirri might ask if we could go explore a daedric ruin, or some such--a small breadcrumb that would fit with the companion's personality and maybe give the player a little bonus for following the suggestion. (But I already see the problem with something like that. People will complain about being "forced" to do what the companion wants, and etc. instead of just not doing the thing and living without any reward one might get from it.)
Mostly, though, I just want them to keep adding to the companion system, making it better and more immersive. Just small things here and there, even--not expecting huge updates to it.
Apart from adding new companions, at least of the 3 still remaining races that don't have a companion yet at all, I can also think of lots of things how they could add to the old companions. Not only thinking of new quests (with or without optional romance), and some combat improvements, but also more interaction with the environment. Sitting down. Doing things in houses (generally, I'd love to see more things to actually do inside player houses). Even just more specific commentary on locations, events, etc. I think reactivity to the environment is a big factor that would contribute to immersion.
Then again, I'm of course spoilt by that Ashlander companion mod for TES3 Morrowind where specific dialogue was available for every single location, quest, action, event, even the weather. That's not achievable anymore today, of course, where all dialogue lines need to be voiced. Which reminds me: Perhaps I should play Morrowind againI took a character through Sancre Tor this morning. Killed Mannimarco and of course his spirit pops right back up and taunts us, saying: oh, big necromancer here, won't stay dead! Then of course Molag Bal opened an anchor circle right there and took his spirit away. And I thought to myself: wait, wasn't there supposed to be a part where he turns into a lich and we fight him? Because that didn't happen. And then I thought: am I just mixing up my necromancers and battles with them?
He never visibly turns into a lich in ESO. In fact we don't even know if he is actually a lich or not at this point of the timeline. I think he could be (they don't need to look rotten, after all), but we don't know.
I think there's an earlier fight where he returns as a projection, though? At his castle?Also, why did Molag Bal just let us go? Did he only have power for one soul, and Mannimarco's was the most important?
He takes Mannimarco's soul after his death (probably as part of the original pact?), but he shouldn't be able to interfere with other mortals' affairs, should he? It was Sancre Tor, not inside his realm.I think people are assuming landscape because there was something about storms.
I know storms were mentioned, but all they said was that those get added to Western Skyrim when it will become free. So I guess it might relate to the upcoming story plotwise - but that doesn't mean there needs to be landscape and storms in the new zone, too. It might just be a story lead-up. (Or perhaps not even that and it's just something like moving Harrowstorms, to update the zone a bit?)Not that I'd mind a full on College of Winterhold experience, but I think a lot of people (myself included) would be disappointed to not see Winterhold before it was wrecked.
Just because it might not be added this winter wouldn't mean they'll never add it - could as well be a release even further in the future.That really does depend on the Bosmer. Indaenir as a housemate? Yes! Green Lady? Eh, I guess she'd be ok, and you don't get the Silvenar without her. Eveli? No thanks. Any of the Vinedusk Rangers would be cool--I like them--though they might introduce a level of chaos I don't necessarily want. Cariel would be fine--if she ever forgives me for that Naemon incident.
Honestly? I sadly don't find many ESO Bosmer very interesting. Skyrim was different somehow - though the number of them was rather minimal there. Less than 30, I think (not counting randomly generated bandits and such).Oh, speaking of npcs, I thought of someone from Daggerfall Covenant who would be good for the favors board: Brother Perry, from Pariah Abbey. He comes up in several side quests in Stormhaven, but we don't really spend a lot of time with him, so it would be a good way to get to know more about him. Preferably a little favor that doesn't involve him being a captive or injured. Although one of the times he was captured, he said he did it on purpose to learn more of the enemy's plans. I thought: sure you did, buddy. I've heard this line before.
You might not believe it, but I actually still remember him! Despite somewhat suffering from Breton amnesia.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I honestly don't know if I'll get the kill 1000 task done (on either account). One tome point per kill isn't really very motivating if one is after the points (and I'm pretty sure I'll get enough points over the course of the season to not miss those 1000). I do have one character playing the Hew's Bane content, but a lot of that is sneak-thief stuff that doesn't involve killing, and the places one might go that do involve killing (delves/instanced content) don't count for the tally. I don't have any other characters whose paths are going to take them to any of the zones, and I'm not going to alter my plans for them just to complete a chore.
On the whole, and considering the issues with this particular task, I would call it poorly designed and sloppily implemented. I really hope further seasonal tasks are better.
I actually got it finished later on the day of my last post. I had already gotten almost half of the necessary kills from the weeklies of last week, and the rest was mostly running around killing bandits and harpies. Out-of-character, in a way, since I don't know why my character would be interested in randomly running around killing harpies in their habitat - but most of the chores are sadly that: out-of-character chores. Endeavours were the same, especially those about "kill x enemies of type y", or the Blade of Woe tasks. I wonder if it would actually be possible to give us chores that basically complete automatically while just playing the game normally? Probably not, as there's vastly different playstyles, so how "normal engagement with the game" looks like will be very different from person to person - so these tasks will almost always mean changing your usual plans for the task?
They also implemented a new seasonal chore today, which surprised me: Kill 100 bosses. I wonder if that's already related to the Night Market somehow? I had somehow expected something more specific for the Night Market release, also dropping right when the Market starts, not that much earlier.
Do you know how long seasonal tasks remain in the UI, by the way? My first seasonal (that one about getting event boxes) has disappeared from the menu, the second (about killing 1000 creatures) has not, despite both of them having been completed before the third one was added today. I know there's some countdown in the menu, which states the end of the season, but I'm wondering while one completed quest got removed from menu and the other one not.
So far I find the seasonal tasks rather lackluster. I understand they want something rather general that everyone can do regardless of owned content, but all this "kill X" stuff is dull. Oh well: I don't have to do these tasks if I don't want to, so it doesn't really matter what they are.
I suppose whether or not one changes their usual plans to complete these tasks will depend on whether or not one considers the reward for such valuable enough. At this point, I do not. At least the 100 bosses one is one I might complete through my usual gameplay--as I take my various characters through the stories they are working on. (If the 1000 enemies hadn't been limited to three zones, I would have eventually completed it, but since it is, I doubt I will.)
I don't know how long completed tasks will remain. I figured, when the event boxes one didn't disappear after the first week, that they would just hang around, sort of like a record of what you'd done. But apparently they won't. I actually didn't even notice the event boxes one had dropped off until you mentioned it.
Not even a little bit. I've made a point to do all the weekly ones so far, on both my accounts, but I don't know how long I can keep that up, or if I even want to.Don't we interact with the npcs for favors? Or is it all just via the board? Well, I don't mind a few quests here and there without voice acting--especially if it makes sense that we don't need to actually talk to someone first to do the favor.
I've read there was some courier person handing us items if we need them for the request, at least sometimes? Well, I'm not on PTS during the current test cycle, so unless I see someone writing about it, I have no clue what will await us! I just hope it's plausible. Though of course I did wonder why the courier isn't just delivering that stuff themselves, if it's just a delivery quest anyway.
Couriers never are able to make the final delivery in Tamriel, are they? Always handing off the message or parcel to some chance-met adventurer.As far as systems keeping people entertained/busy, antiquities does a good job of that--at least for me. I'll never complete the codex (and I'm fine with that) but it is fun to come across new leads, even if they are for mythics I don't care about as a whole. We still get the Circle's insights on the items, and I like the idea that some antiquities are "duds"--from my character's perspective.
When trying to get a specific lead, it can become quite an annoying grind sometimes. But generally, I like the antiquity system. I think it's a very interesting way to present lore.
Well, sure, if one is wanting a specific lead and the rng is being a brat, that's annoying. I was talking about the way the antiquities system is set up, though--that as evergreen content it does a good job of keeping my interest.The Sages Vault sounds like it might have better luck at being entertaining at keeping us busy, since it changes layout and such--but again, that could also be frustrating rather than fun. I don't know how much story/lore/narrative there will be to it.
That's also something I've been wondering about. If there's not much story to it, I'd probably also lose interest after a while, even if I enjoy puzzle content. I'm generally wondering how much those layout changes will even matter. It surely won't be masses of different puzzles, so if it's, for example, a room with some obstacle and a lever puzzle - does it really matter if it's a dig, a drawbridge or a closed gate, or if the obstacle is on the right side or the left side of the room? If the principle of the puzzle is always the same, just changing visuals or slight differences in room design won't do it for me.
That's the thing, isn't it? How different it will be, and how quickly someone can exhaust all the combinations. They said something about there being certain points where it will be static--something akin to "save points"--to avoid the kind of thing people dislike about IA. Anyway, I'm willing to give it a go and see what it's about, and whether or not I like it.
You know, I actually did give IA another try today. It was going all right until I got to a boss that could insta-kill me with something: a thing I wasn't even sure what it was (even after reading it on the death recap). You see, I've never been able to kill Thingummy at the end--the what's-it-called that we are collecting nymic fragments of--and so I thought I'd try it one more time. But no, this time stalled by some interim boss.Since they're released from the pressure of full chapters, it's possible the content we do get will be more fleshed out/detailed. I'm not so concerned about the lack of new zones, really. Of course I'd like to see the map filled out, and to experience new areas, but I don't think a new zone is necessary for good content. We'll see with the two upcoming quest lines how it plays out.
There's places in Tamriel I'd really love to see one day, but what matters most to me is the writing quality. If the writing was boring and the lore inconsistent and everything was basically a huge plot hole, I'd find it sad to see a zone "wasted". You can probably guess what locations I'd be interested in - well, I'd rather see convincing writing first, so I don't have to feel wary if we ever get there!
The writing quality for this game has always been all over the place, at least to me. Even in base game. There are quests that can make me think, or evoke some feeling in me (small quests, too--not even talking about the major ones) and then there are quests that make me roll my eyes and ask: really?Have you seen the questline description for the Sheogorath questline yet? I've posted it in the lore thread. Not sure if you already want to see it, as it's still a few months to go (and I put it in spoiler tags just in case), but it doesn't give details, anyway. Only the base premise, in a way. Though that could also already be discussed.
I saw that you posted it in the other thread, but didn't read it. I feel like I know enough of the basic premise of the quest from what they've said in streams, and I know cheese is part of it, but I don't want to get into spoiler territory. I really just want to experience it in the game when it's live and see what I think of it there.I really hope they don't abandon the companion system. It's not that I don't like it as is, but it could be better. If they could work out some small interactive moments with companions--like if you go into an inn and sit down, your companion also sits--that would please me and make it feel more like they truly are companions. Or what if the companions would occasionally have suggestions of something to do? Mirri might ask if we could go explore a daedric ruin, or some such--a small breadcrumb that would fit with the companion's personality and maybe give the player a little bonus for following the suggestion. (But I already see the problem with something like that. People will complain about being "forced" to do what the companion wants, and etc. instead of just not doing the thing and living without any reward one might get from it.)
Mostly, though, I just want them to keep adding to the companion system, making it better and more immersive. Just small things here and there, even--not expecting huge updates to it.
Apart from adding new companions, at least of the 3 still remaining races that don't have a companion yet at all, I can also think of lots of things how they could add to the old companions. Not only thinking of new quests (with or without optional romance), and some combat improvements, but also more interaction with the environment. Sitting down. Doing things in houses (generally, I'd love to see more things to actually do inside player houses). Even just more specific commentary on locations, events, etc. I think reactivity to the environment is a big factor that would contribute to immersion.
Then again, I'm of course spoilt by that Ashlander companion mod for TES3 Morrowind where specific dialogue was available for every single location, quest, action, event, even the weather. That's not achievable anymore today, of course, where all dialogue lines need to be voiced. Which reminds me: Perhaps I should play Morrowind again
Although I do enjoy the voiced dialogue in this game (for the most part), I have thought before that fully voicing every line might be holding back some of the richness of dialogue we could otherwise have, and some of the nuance and complexity. Then again, with companions, if their reactions aren't voiced in the moment, that would mean we'd have to be always clicking on them to see if they had anything to say, and that doesn't seem very immersive, either. I do wish some of the lines they had meshed better with what is actually going on in game, though.
For example, one of Bastian's lines when we come across a point of interest is: The Divines must've been in a good mood when they made this place! Ok, that works sometimes, but when we come across a point of interest in one of the Daedric planes and he says it, it makes me worry for his sanity. Or even on Tamriel, if the point of interest is some man-made thing (a ruin, of course, because everything is). In those cases, his reaction causes me to question him--not that he can hear me or, even if he could, respond to me.I took a character through Sancre Tor this morning. Killed Mannimarco and of course his spirit pops right back up and taunts us, saying: oh, big necromancer here, won't stay dead! Then of course Molag Bal opened an anchor circle right there and took his spirit away. And I thought to myself: wait, wasn't there supposed to be a part where he turns into a lich and we fight him? Because that didn't happen. And then I thought: am I just mixing up my necromancers and battles with them?
He never visibly turns into a lich in ESO. In fact we don't even know if he is actually a lich or not at this point of the timeline. I think he could be (they don't need to look rotten, after all), but we don't know.
I think there's an earlier fight where he returns as a projection, though? At his castle?
We do fight a projection of him at his castle. At least, I think it is one--it's all blue and glowy. But I'm not sure how a projection could fight like that. Tharn even mentions at the end that he's never fought Mannimarco before, and Mannimarco is more powerful than Tharn realized.
Anyway, I was pretty sure I was just conflating the Sancre Tor fight with another fight somewhere else, but it amused me that I was taken a bit off guard by it all the same.Also, why did Molag Bal just let us go? Did he only have power for one soul, and Mannimarco's was the most important?
He takes Mannimarco's soul after his death (probably as part of the original pact?), but he shouldn't be able to interfere with other mortals' affairs, should he? It was Sancre Tor, not inside his realm.
Another loophole? Because what is coming to Sancre Tor to steal one person's soul if not interfering? I also don't know if that was part of the pact Mannimarco had with him, because otherwise why would Mannimarco be so carefree when popping up as a spirit? He clearly didn't think Molag Bal could do anything to him.I think people are assuming landscape because there was something about storms.
I know storms were mentioned, but all they said was that those get added to Western Skyrim when it will become free. So I guess it might relate to the upcoming story plotwise - but that doesn't mean there needs to be landscape and storms in the new zone, too. It might just be a story lead-up. (Or perhaps not even that and it's just something like moving Harrowstorms, to update the zone a bit?)
I hope it's not moving Harrowstorms. Since time is continuing to move forward, Harrowstorms shouldn't even be a thing at that point.Not that I'd mind a full on College of Winterhold experience, but I think a lot of people (myself included) would be disappointed to not see Winterhold before it was wrecked.
Just because it might not be added this winter wouldn't mean they'll never add it - could as well be a release even further in the future.
They did say, "What's up in Winterhold?" (or something to that effect). So why namedrop like that and then not have the town? Well, it's all so far out, and we have so little to go on, speculation at this point is just blind guessing.That really does depend on the Bosmer. Indaenir as a housemate? Yes! Green Lady? Eh, I guess she'd be ok, and you don't get the Silvenar without her. Eveli? No thanks. Any of the Vinedusk Rangers would be cool--I like them--though they might introduce a level of chaos I don't necessarily want. Cariel would be fine--if she ever forgives me for that Naemon incident.
Honestly? I sadly don't find many ESO Bosmer very interesting. Skyrim was different somehow - though the number of them was rather minimal there. Less than 30, I think (not counting randomly generated bandits and such).
Did you take a census of Skyrim npcs? I don't remember the bulk of npcs well enough to know which were Bosmer. I probably didn't even know they were Bosmer back then.Oh, speaking of npcs, I thought of someone from Daggerfall Covenant who would be good for the favors board: Brother Perry, from Pariah Abbey. He comes up in several side quests in Stormhaven, but we don't really spend a lot of time with him, so it would be a good way to get to know more about him. Preferably a little favor that doesn't involve him being a captive or injured. Although one of the times he was captured, he said he did it on purpose to learn more of the enemy's plans. I thought: sure you did, buddy. I've heard this line before.
You might not believe it, but I actually still remember him! Despite somewhat suffering from Breton amnesia.
I think he's one of the more memorable ones. I've been taking my character on my second account through the Stormhaven zone so I can rack up enough quests to get the achievement to buy the fancy house in Wayrest.0 -
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✭✭✭✭✭So far I find the seasonal tasks rather lackluster. I understand they want something rather general that everyone can do regardless of owned content, but all this "kill X" stuff is dull. Oh well: I don't have to do these tasks if I don't want to, so it doesn't really matter what they are.
I guess I would have just appreciated something more creative? Same goes for the weeklies. Though one aspect that makes those boring is also that it's the same ones all the time. Endeavors were already boring, but I have the impression that those had a tiny bit more variety, at least. Then again, this is just chore content, anyway, not "real" content - I hope we'll see more creativity when it comes to that (namely the story content in summer, the Vault, etc)!
I think I'm on page 7 now. I don't stress myself out, and what I'm mostly interested in is just the currencies, anyway (except for those 2 parts of the CWC-ish style or what it was). I'm more than confident I'll reach the last page long before the season is over (and then I'll be happy not "needing" to do any more chores for the remaining weeks!).
...and then those Golden Pursuits on top of it. One for a week before the Night Market begins, and with the Night Market launch, there's supposed to be another one, as far as I've seen. Of course, no one needs to do them, but for people who are interested in the specific rewards, I think it is a bit much. New chores every day! Well, at least it felt like that a week ago. A never-ending threadmill. 12 dungeons in 7 days is also a bit much. If a chore campaign only lasts a week, they should have adjusted all numbers accordingly.
To me, it somehow feels like a test which amount of chores players are still willing to accept. Unfortunately, people still do them while complaining, so...Couriers never are able to make the final delivery in Tamriel, are they? Always handing off the message or parcel to some chance-met adventurer.
It's one thing coming across one in the wilderness who failed doing the job on their own and then seeks for help, or actually having one standing right at the writ board whose only task is to hand over stuff for someone to do the chore. Well, I don't want to judge it yet, as I haven't seen the Favor quests yet!
I keep wondering the whole time, though, how much story content it actually is - or if it's basically just another chore system (with tasks like "Kill boss x", "Collect 12 y"), just with some short writ board text instead of a task one-liner in a UI menu (and of course giving us those posters as rewards at the end - makes me wonder if anyone ever wished for a poster of Arabelle?).That's the thing, isn't it? How different it will be, and how quickly someone can exhaust all the combinations. They said something about there being certain points where it will be static--something akin to "save points"--to avoid the kind of thing people dislike about IA. Anyway, I'm willing to give it a go and see what it's about, and whether or not I like it.
For me, there's still a lot that's unclear about that thing. Maybe they'll elaborate on it more in some stream soon. Though I think it might be a content type that's probably best understood if trying it out oneself. Just like the card game was - in that announcement stream where it was introduced, I understood nothing about it. Then again, I also didn't understand much about it when I tried it for the first time. It took a bit to get into it. Having no real tutorial also didn't help.You know, I actually did give IA another try today. It was going all right until I got to a boss that could insta-kill me with something: a thing I wasn't even sure what it was (even after reading it on the death recap).
Was it a dragon? Those are horribly annoying.You see, I've never been able to kill Thingummy at the end--the what's-it-called that we are collecting nymic fragments of--and so I thought I'd try it one more time. But no, this time stalled by some interim boss.
I've soloed Thoat 1 several times. Also Thoat 2 once or twice - then I've usually run out of freetime or patience. As long as there's no way to save progress, I'll never see Thoat 3 - then again, I'm not sure why I'd want to, as it's always more or less the same anyway.The writing quality for this game has always been all over the place, at least to me. Even in base game. There are quests that can make me think, or evoke some feeling in me (small quests, too--not even talking about the major ones) and then there are quests that make me roll my eyes and ask: really?
I still think the overall tone has changed. It felt mostly more serious in the earlier years. We didn't get complete meme content about nobles telling us how cute their pet was (while their realm was suffering from a daedric invasion), or sloths with wizard hats randomly appearing who knows where, back then. And honestly, if it had already been like that when ESO first released, I would have never joined.I saw that you posted it in the other thread, but didn't read it. I feel like I know enough of the basic premise of the quest from what they've said in streams, and I know cheese is part of it, but I don't want to get into spoiler territory. I really just want to experience it in the game when it's live and see what I think of it there.
It's really not more info beyond Sheogorath visiting Nirn because he feels like doing so. I just found the wording interesting.
Well, that thread also seems to be dead now. Not much going on here right now in general.Although I do enjoy the voiced dialogue in this game (for the most part), I have thought before that fully voicing every line might be holding back some of the richness of dialogue we could otherwise have, and some of the nuance and complexity.
I've been thinking about that too. Generally: Did game writing become less complex when it transitioned from text dialogues to voiced dialogues? I sometimes have that impression. But on the other hand, I really enjoy ESO's voice actors, too (though I also still play older unvoiced games, and I can't say I like them less because of that). But more important than what I might enjoy more or not is probably what the general public prefers. Could an unvoiced rpg still sell as well as a voiced one today? Especially a TES game where people are used to fully voiced dialogues since Oblivion (also I think a big portion of people interested in ESO might have been part of the Skyrim crowd)?
I've also come across the notion that people don't want to read (much) when choosing to play a video game, and indeed I think that today it could be true. The public has changed. People today read less, they concentrate more on other types of entertainment. Also, the big audience 25 years ago might have been rather nerdy in comparison, with many people coming from tabletop rpgs, while today it's probably a completely different demography. People read (and write) less today. They might not have the patience for that anymore. Not talking about everyone, of course (I'm still reading and writing all the time), but the general tendency.Then again, with companions, if their reactions aren't voiced in the moment, that would mean we'd have to be always clicking on them to see if they had anything to say, and that doesn't seem very immersive, either. I do wish some of the lines they had meshed better with what is actually going on in game, though.
For example, one of Bastian's lines when we come across a point of interest is: The Divines must've been in a good mood when they made this place! Ok, that works sometimes, but when we come across a point of interest in one of the Daedric planes and he says it, it makes me worry for his sanity. Or even on Tamriel, if the point of interest is some man-made thing (a ruin, of course, because everything is). In those cases, his reaction causes me to question him--not that he can hear me or, even if he could, respond to me.
I know that situation. First experienced it with Bastian when I was at the Endless Overlook in Coldharbor. Though it was even worse once with Sharp, who, at the Dres Farm near Mournhold, told me how he loved that location and wished he could stay there.
I've been thinking about the TES3 Ashlander companion mod, by the way. Well, about what exactly made that companionship feel so... intense? Apart from the reactivity to all locations and all kinds of events it was probably that you did everything together (unless you let him wait at another location to be picked up again later, that is)? Camping or resting together who knows there, in some ruins, in a shack somewhere in the wilderness. Walking under the night sky, just talking about our families, our beliefs and dreams. Also sharing food, or even getting drunk together. Mundane things, actually, but it just felt natural in a way, and contributed to the atmosphere.
I guess this is missing a bit from ESO's companions so far: You might learn about them through their questline, but if you just run around with them outside of those quests, they only have a few lines telling you something more about their background - but it's not much and it rarely goes deep. You might learn some likes or dislikes, or some simple facts about them, but does it really matter much if one of them has a cheese allergy, or if one prefers coffee or tea? Sure, it's nice to know, but these aren't the things that evoke strong feelings, are they? The fact that Azandar likes tea a lot (just like me in real life) might have been a thing that amused me for a moment, but what actually left an emotional impact was his idle dialogue about his family ("I'm reminded, for some damnable reason, of my parents today. It might be hyperbole to say they regretted having me. But it might not. Luckily they have my older brother to carry on the family name.") and his regrets about Martina ("On reflection, I wish I'd had the chance to repair my relationship with Martina before she died. Back then, it seemed logical to conclude our collaboration. It no longer served either of us. But ... perhaps something more was lost, as well.") - I'd like to see more on that level. And they should give us dialogue choices to express who our character is and what they value, believe in, or what they care for, too. It doesn't even matter if it makes a difference in the story, I'd just enjoy it if we could talk more personally with our companions at times. I really think it would help with the immersion - and with building our roleplay story about that friendship.We do fight a projection of him at his castle. At least, I think it is one--it's all blue and glowy. But I'm not sure how a projection could fight like that. Tharn even mentions at the end that he's never fought Mannimarco before, and Mannimarco is more powerful than Tharn realized.
Maybe it was a split part of his energy? It's never really clarified. Well, maybe he call tell us when he resurfaces the next timeAnother loophole? Because what is coming to Sancre Tor to steal one person's soul if not interfering? I also don't know if that was part of the pact Mannimarco had with him, because otherwise why would Mannimarco be so carefree when popping up as a spirit? He clearly didn't think Molag Bal could do anything to him.
I'd assume by being a champion of (or servant to) Molag Bal (which, in the end, he was) he probably sold his soul to him at some point? So it might not be a "real" interference with the laws of the mortal plane to catch the soul, that has long been sold before, when death finally occurs (we know it happens to many people who have a pact with daedric princes, and many of them surely won't just willingly pop up in Oblivion as a spirit, where punishment for their failure awaits). Not sure why Mannimarco believed that wouldn't happen. Perhaps he thought he could resurrect fast enough? Or that Molag Bal still thought of him as being useful, so he would let him remain on Nirn?I hope it's not moving Harrowstorms. Since time is continuing to move forward, Harrowstorms shouldn't even be a thing at that point.
But we already know they won't be disappearing either. Newer players who have not completed Greymoor yet still need them. Also, they drop a few leads.Did you take a census of Skyrim npcs? I don't remember the bulk of npcs well enough to know which were Bosmer. I probably didn't even know they were Bosmer back then.
Yes, though a Bosmer census only, and the census took about 10 minutes because it were only 30 of them (about 50:50 male/female, I think). Not a single marriage candidate, either. One could become a steward, at least.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭So far I find the seasonal tasks rather lackluster. I understand they want something rather general that everyone can do regardless of owned content, but all this "kill X" stuff is dull. Oh well: I don't have to do these tasks if I don't want to, so it doesn't really matter what they are.
I guess I would have just appreciated something more creative? Same goes for the weeklies. Though one aspect that makes those boring is also that it's the same ones all the time. Endeavors were already boring, but I have the impression that those had a tiny bit more variety, at least. Then again, this is just chore content, anyway, not "real" content - I hope we'll see more creativity when it comes to that (namely the story content in summer, the Vault, etc)!
I think I'm on page 7 now. I don't stress myself out, and what I'm mostly interested in is just the currencies, anyway (except for those 2 parts of the CWC-ish style or what it was). I'm more than confident I'll reach the last page long before the season is over (and then I'll be happy not "needing" to do any more chores for the remaining weeks!).
...and then those Golden Pursuits on top of it. One for a week before the Night Market begins, and with the Night Market launch, there's supposed to be another one, as far as I've seen. Of course, no one needs to do them, but for people who are interested in the specific rewards, I think it is a bit much. New chores every day! Well, at least it felt like that a week ago. A never-ending threadmill. 12 dungeons in 7 days is also a bit much. If a chore campaign only lasts a week, they should have adjusted all numbers accordingly.
To me, it somehow feels like a test which amount of chores players are still willing to accept. Unfortunately, people still do them while complaining, so...
I would appreciate more creativity in the Tome tasks as well. So far it seems like they are going for tasks that won't be out of anyone's reach based on what parts of the game they own. Maybe after some more content is added to the "free" pool, the tasks will gain some variety.
I'm on page 6 so far, on both accounts. I haven't completed either of the two current seasonal tasks, but I probably will eventually get the "100 bosses" one done, since the little bosses for quests count towards that, and I've been doing a lot of questing.
As far as the current Golden Pursuit goes, I'm not going to complete it on either account. I've done enough to get all but the final reward, and I don't want to do the tasks I haven't yet done, so I'm content to let it fade out unfinished. It was a lot to do in a week, I agree.Couriers never are able to make the final delivery in Tamriel, are they? Always handing off the message or parcel to some chance-met adventurer.
It's one thing coming across one in the wilderness who failed doing the job on their own and then seeks for help, or actually having one standing right at the writ board whose only task is to hand over stuff for someone to do the chore. Well, I don't want to judge it yet, as I haven't seen the Favor quests yet!
I keep wondering the whole time, though, how much story content it actually is - or if it's basically just another chore system (with tasks like "Kill boss x", "Collect 12 y"), just with some short writ board text instead of a task one-liner in a UI menu (and of course giving us those posters as rewards at the end - makes me wonder if anyone ever wished for a poster of Arabelle?).
Do the couriers stand right by the notice board? I assumed we just took the notice from the board and went about it, no intermediary involved. But I will say this: Tamriel couriers are exceptionally lazy. Or they're exceptionally shrewd and cunning and know how to work on the sensibilities of traveling heroes to get us to do their job for them.
I don't expect deeply involved quests with the favors system, but I do expect them to have something to do with the person for whom we're doing the favor and give us some more insight into their character. I'll find out if my expectations are met when they go live.
I never wished for a poster of any npc, but I'm not going to turn one down. I did read in one of the PTS summary threads that ZOS is looking at improving the rewards for favors, so we'll see how that works out. I don't read those in-depth, but I do skim them to get an idea of how things are going in a very general way.That's the thing, isn't it? How different it will be, and how quickly someone can exhaust all the combinations. They said something about there being certain points where it will be static--something akin to "save points"--to avoid the kind of thing people dislike about IA. Anyway, I'm willing to give it a go and see what it's about, and whether or not I like it.
For me, there's still a lot that's unclear about that thing. Maybe they'll elaborate on it more in some stream soon. Though I think it might be a content type that's probably best understood if trying it out oneself. Just like the card game was - in that announcement stream where it was introduced, I understood nothing about it. Then again, I also didn't understand much about it when I tried it for the first time. It took a bit to get into it. Having no real tutorial also didn't help.
I think I probably won't really understand the Vault until I've done it, but that's fine. A bit of exploration and figuring things out can be a lot of fun.
I think it was a spriggan type, but I'm not positive. I was doing all right during the fight, thought I would win, and then suddenly: dead! I read the recap and saw what killed me listed, but I had no idea what the effect looked like during the fight. Second time, didn't get as far, same thing killed me, and again I could not tell what it was I was supposed to do to avoid or mitigate this death-dealing boss ability. That's the thing for me about some of these fights. They are so effects-heavy and frenetic. I don't use add-ons (well, except map pins, which doesn't help in fights) and I'm a curmudgeonly sort who thinks I shouldn't have to research a boss fight online before I do it. Well, that's my choice, and if that means I never get far in IA, so be it. I'm not a combat-focused player, so probably I should just stay out of IA altogether. Usually I do, but every now and then I think: no, I can probably do it.The writing quality for this game has always been all over the place, at least to me. Even in base game. There are quests that can make me think, or evoke some feeling in me (small quests, too--not even talking about the major ones) and then there are quests that make me roll my eyes and ask: really?
I still think the overall tone has changed. It felt mostly more serious in the earlier years. We didn't get complete meme content about nobles telling us how cute their pet was (while their realm was suffering from a daedric invasion), or sloths with wizard hats randomly appearing who knows where, back then. And honestly, if it had already been like that when ESO first released, I would have never joined.
Is the sloth with a wizard hat a meme? I mean, when I first played that quest, it felt like a meme to me, but since I'm never current on memes, I didn't recognize it. On its own, the idea of an overcharged magic item causing havoc isn't bad, but npcs kept saying "magic cap" (or was it "magic hat"?) so much, I thought: am I supposed to "get" what this is a reference to? I still don't know if it was based on a meme or just some silliness gone too far. Either way, I could have done without it. Just like I could have done without Rigurt's appearances beyond his first stint in Mournhold (I was so bummed the first time I got to Windhelm and saw him with a quest) and any appearance of Lady Laurent and Stibbons.
You've mentioned the noble with the pet a couple times, and I'm not sure who you're talking about. Is it the Skingrad Count who has a bear? Does he talk about the bear a lot? I don't recall him mentioning it much. I know there was one quest where we have to find the bear, but I don't remember it coming up all the time.
It is possible the overall tone of writing has changed over the years, become a bit lighter. There could be many reasons for this, but one I wonder about is players expressing dislike of some of the more serious/somber tones. I've seen people complain about ambient npc voice lines that disagree with a choice the player made in a quest. I've also seen someone say they'll never replay a certain quest because it has no "good" ending. (It was in Stonefalls zone chat years ago, and there were several people agreeing with the opinon.) It could be that people just don't like ambiguous or even darker quest results--that they want to feel they made the good and right choice and the npcs' lives are better for it. Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone, but if enough people have made it known they don't like the darker writing, or if ZOS sees that certain quests just don't get completed much, it might have influenced the general tone of writing.Although I do enjoy the voiced dialogue in this game (for the most part), I have thought before that fully voicing every line might be holding back some of the richness of dialogue we could otherwise have, and some of the nuance and complexity.
I've been thinking about that too. Generally: Did game writing become less complex when it transitioned from text dialogues to voiced dialogues? I sometimes have that impression. But on the other hand, I really enjoy ESO's voice actors, too (though I also still play older unvoiced games, and I can't say I like them less because of that). But more important than what I might enjoy more or not is probably what the general public prefers. Could an unvoiced rpg still sell as well as a voiced one today? Especially a TES game where people are used to fully voiced dialogues since Oblivion (also I think a big portion of people interested in ESO might have been part of the Skyrim crowd)?
I've also come across the notion that people don't want to read (much) when choosing to play a video game, and indeed I think that today it could be true. The public has changed. People today read less, they concentrate more on other types of entertainment. Also, the big audience 25 years ago might have been rather nerdy in comparison, with many people coming from tabletop rpgs, while today it's probably a completely different demography. People read (and write) less today. They might not have the patience for that anymore. Not talking about everyone, of course (I'm still reading and writing all the time), but the general tendency.
I could easily enjoy a non-voiced rpg game, but it certainly wouldn't be industry standard anymore. I think also there's a difference in the way the writing works for a game where the player creates a character from scratch versus where they play a character fully designed by the game developers (like in the Uncharted game series, or Assassin's Creed). So I don't think it's necessarily voiced dialogues that hold back complexity, though it might be a contributing factor in some cases.
I do wonder how much people in general want to read in a game. I guess it depends on the game as well as the person. Other factors might contribute, too. While I often do want to read the lore/history/notes/etc. in a game, now and then I just won't be in the mood. I just want to get in, run around, and bash stuff.Then again, with companions, if their reactions aren't voiced in the moment, that would mean we'd have to be always clicking on them to see if they had anything to say, and that doesn't seem very immersive, either. I do wish some of the lines they had meshed better with what is actually going on in game, though.
For example, one of Bastian's lines when we come across a point of interest is: The Divines must've been in a good mood when they made this place! Ok, that works sometimes, but when we come across a point of interest in one of the Daedric planes and he says it, it makes me worry for his sanity. Or even on Tamriel, if the point of interest is some man-made thing (a ruin, of course, because everything is). In those cases, his reaction causes me to question him--not that he can hear me or, even if he could, respond to me.
I know that situation. First experienced it with Bastian when I was at the Endless Overlook in Coldharbor. Though it was even worse once with Sharp, who, at the Dres Farm near Mournhold, told me how he loved that location and wished he could stay there.
Yikes, that is pretty jarring. I haven't heard that one (thankfully).I've been thinking about the TES3 Ashlander companion mod, by the way. Well, about what exactly made that companionship feel so... intense? Apart from the reactivity to all locations and all kinds of events it was probably that you did everything together (unless you let him wait at another location to be picked up again later, that is)? Camping or resting together who knows there, in some ruins, in a shack somewhere in the wilderness. Walking under the night sky, just talking about our families, our beliefs and dreams. Also sharing food, or even getting drunk together. Mundane things, actually, but it just felt natural in a way, and contributed to the atmosphere.
I guess this is missing a bit from ESO's companions so far: You might learn about them through their questline, but if you just run around with them outside of those quests, they only have a few lines telling you something more about their background - but it's not much and it rarely goes deep. You might learn some likes or dislikes, or some simple facts about them, but does it really matter much if one of them has a cheese allergy, or if one prefers coffee or tea? Sure, it's nice to know, but these aren't the things that evoke strong feelings, are they? The fact that Azandar likes tea a lot (just like me in real life) might have been a thing that amused me for a moment, but what actually left an emotional impact was his idle dialogue about his family ("I'm reminded, for some damnable reason, of my parents today. It might be hyperbole to say they regretted having me. But it might not. Luckily they have my older brother to carry on the family name.") and his regrets about Martina ("On reflection, I wish I'd had the chance to repair my relationship with Martina before she died. Back then, it seemed logical to conclude our collaboration. It no longer served either of us. But ... perhaps something more was lost, as well.") - I'd like to see more on that level. And they should give us dialogue choices to express who our character is and what they value, believe in, or what they care for, too. It doesn't even matter if it makes a difference in the story, I'd just enjoy it if we could talk more personally with our companions at times. I really think it would help with the immersion - and with building our roleplay story about that friendship.
I agree. Some of the lines they say feel like they could lead to a deeper conversation, but they're really just flavor text that crops up now and then. I really would love to go to a tavern with my companions, sit down, have an ale (or tea!) and just chat for a bit.Another loophole? Because what is coming to Sancre Tor to steal one person's soul if not interfering? I also don't know if that was part of the pact Mannimarco had with him, because otherwise why would Mannimarco be so carefree when popping up as a spirit? He clearly didn't think Molag Bal could do anything to him.
I'd assume by being a champion of (or servant to) Molag Bal (which, in the end, he was) he probably sold his soul to him at some point? So it might not be a "real" interference with the laws of the mortal plane to catch the soul, that has long been sold before, when death finally occurs (we know it happens to many people who have a pact with daedric princes, and many of them surely won't just willingly pop up in Oblivion as a spirit, where punishment for their failure awaits). Not sure why Mannimarco believed that wouldn't happen. Perhaps he thought he could resurrect fast enough? Or that Molag Bal still thought of him as being useful, so he would let him remain on Nirn?
I think Molag Bal plays fast and loose with all the "rules." Today I did a quest in Glenumbra (for a ghost, of course!) in the town of Westry. During the course of the quest, you find that one villager bargained with Molag Bal (to save the village from a Nord invasion) and gave Bal everyone in the village. So, because this one guy was stupid and desperate, the souls of everyone in the village belong to Molag Bal? How does that work? How can anyone in Tamriel be sure of anything if some jerk can promise away their soul to any Daedric Prince? The most devout Divines-loving person could find themselves forever in Coldharbour because someone else thought it was worth whatever they could get out of Molag Bal.
Now, in Mannimarco's case, he may or may not have given away his soul. No idea what value he put on his own soul, or whether he thought he could achieve his ascension and so it wouldn't matter in the end. In thinking more about the Sancre Tor thing specifically, I wondered if he thought Molag Bal couldn't "see" him there, because at one point Mannimarco does taunt us by saying the wards of Stendarr won't hinder him, but they will keep Molag Bal from noticing what's going on.I hope it's not moving Harrowstorms. Since time is continuing to move forward, Harrowstorms shouldn't even be a thing at that point.
But we already know they won't be disappearing either. Newer players who have not completed Greymoor yet still need them. Also, they drop a few leads.
I never expected them to disappear--just like dolmens don't go away after we disable the whole anchor machinery in Coldharbour--but I do expect them to stay in their specific spots so I can easily avoid them. Story-wise, moving Harrowstorms shouldn't be a thing in the new content is all I meant.
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm on page 6 so far, on both accounts. I haven't completed either of the two current seasonal tasks, but I probably will eventually get the "100 bosses" one done, since the little bosses for quests count towards that, and I've been doing a lot of questing.
I'm on page 8 now and noticed yesterday that both bonus pages (11 and 12) unlock at the same time. So I think I only have between 4000 and 5000 points left until I've unlocked the last page. I saw today they added a Night Market seasonal task worth 2000 points - not sure if I'll be able to complete that one, though. Well, actually I might, while just playing the Market, but it's possible I've already reached the remaining 5000 points with other tasks before that. I mean, the whole thing has just been running for 4 weeks, and I'm already on page 8 - the system is generous with points, at least.
The Night Market - well, actually I like the principle, but I also liked the Writhing Fortress (when it worked without bugs). I have exactly one problem, personally: There's no one around. On my own, I can't really fight bosses (and actually I'm fighting extra lousy right now; my keyboard got defective a few days ago and I just switched to a new one yesterday, which I'm absolutely not used to yet), and fighting mobs takes so long, it's not fun. I can sneak around for the quests (it even works much better than expected), but that doesn't help me with those fragments needed for the house, as the majority of them drops from bosses. I hope there might be more people on the weekend, but if not, I'm honestly not very optimistic when it comes to completing those collectibles. Not too sad about it, but it's a bit of a pity - just like the whole Night Market issue; interesting design, but without enough people around, it just doesn't work. I wish I could just clone myself like Divayth, as I believe 3 or 4 of myself would probably get along well with the new content (estimated by how I got along solo with the mobs today).
In case you haven't seen yet, I left a longer review on the official feedback thread - I also wrote a bit about the general character design and dialogues there (based on the German localization, obviously, so I don't know if the English original might be similar or very different to that):
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8467104/#Comment_8467104As far as the current Golden Pursuit goes, I'm not going to complete it on either account. I've done enough to get all but the final reward, and I don't want to do the tasks I haven't yet done, so I'm content to let it fade out unfinished. It was a lot to do in a week, I agree.
I actually finished the last one, but the new one that started today - I have no clue. Truly depends on how busy the zone will be on the weekend, and if I'll somehow be able to actually fight bosses with random other people there.Do the couriers stand right by the notice board? I assumed we just took the notice from the board and went about it, no intermediary involved.
I'm not on PTS this time, but from what I read, we seem the accept the quests right from the writ board, but for some reason, if some item is needed, there's a courier standing next to it.I don't expect deeply involved quests with the favors system, but I do expect them to have something to do with the person for whom we're doing the favor and give us some more insight into their character. I'll find out if my expectations are met when they go live.
I'd hope so. We'll know... when? In July? Then it's just slightly over 2 months.I never wished for a poster of any npc, but I'm not going to turn one down.
I'm not sure if all those pictures will have the same format and shape, but it made me think, if that is the case, they should also let us get empty picture frames for gold from some merchant (or make them craftable).I think I probably won't really understand the Vault until I've done it, but that's fine. A bit of exploration and figuring things out can be a lot of fun.
It is. One aspect I enjoyed about the Market so far is that you need to figure things out a bit (and I didn't find it hard) - then again, I've come across lots of forum posts by people being confused and wishing for a tutorial or something. Which makes me wonder how the Vault and the Rumors will generally be received.Is the sloth with a wizard hat a meme? I mean, when I first played that quest, it felt like a meme to me, but since I'm never current on memes, I didn't recognize it.
I don't know details, either, but I know there are thousands of pictures online of sloths wearing wizard hats (which aren't even a very common thing in TES). Also, sloths were "fashionable" for a while - I honestly have no clue how these fads start, but I do notice how suddenly all kinds of mundane items, from yoghurt cups to toilet paper, got plastered with owls, foxes, alpacas, sloths, capybaras, and what ever the currently fashionable animal might be. I also deem it possible that that weird alpaca-ish ESO mount (Brekka, I think?) might have been a (very late) reaction to the alpaca fad.On its own, the idea of an overcharged magic item causing havoc isn't bad, but npcs kept saying "magic cap" (or was it "magic hat"?) so much, I thought: am I supposed to "get" what this is a reference to? I still don't know if it was based on a meme or just some silliness gone too far. Either way, I could have done without it.
It was "The Magicap". It was treated like some branded product name advertised on a teleshopping channel, which also felt completely off for a medieval fantasy scenario (and another case where it felt some modern pop culture thing was shoved into the game without looking at the setting). The term "Magicap" also never came up in TES lore before (and if I seek for it online, it seems to be the name for two things: anti-depression pills and one-use silicone caps for hair-dying).You've mentioned the noble with the pet a couple times, and I'm not sure who you're talking about. Is it the Skingrad Count who has a bear?
Yes, that one. He didn't talk about the bear all the time, but the lines he had, at least in German, felt a little weird. Of course people love their pet and are happy if a lost pet is returned to them, and that has also been the case historically (sources from Ancient Greece or from the Middle Ages exist, which show how much people loved and valued their pets - and also their way of thinking about them; how and what for they praised them, for example), but the wording and presentation felt so... clichéd? Performative, in a way. It reminded me of teenage or young adult influencers exaggeratedly proclaiming their love for something in front of a camera. Not very genuine. Obviously, very "modern", too. Not really the way a nobleman in a medieval world would likely praise their pet.It is possible the overall tone of writing has changed over the years, become a bit lighter. There could be many reasons for this, but one I wonder about is players expressing dislike of some of the more serious/somber tones. I've seen people complain about ambient npc voice lines that disagree with a choice the player made in a quest. I've also seen someone say they'll never replay a certain quest because it has no "good" ending. (It was in Stonefalls zone chat years ago, and there were several people agreeing with the opinon.) It could be that people just don't like ambiguous or even darker quest results--that they want to feel they made the good and right choice and the npcs' lives are better for it. Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone, but if enough people have made it known they don't like the darker writing, or if ZOS sees that certain quests just don't get completed much, it might have influenced the general tone of writing.
Well, we never know percentages, obviously, but I don't doubt there might be players who want everything funny and happy, and who find Rigurt's clownery, or current memes being referenced in ESO's writing absolutely hilarious, and who wish to ride a sparkling pink unicorn to a sanitized Sanguine festival where nothing remotely shocking happens. What I'm wondering about is if it's worth it, not only because it alienates players who prefer more serious writing, but also because it's so far from what Tamriel originally was, what its people concerned themselves with, and how the games presented it. TES always had dark themes, big tragedies, daedric cults actually doing gruesome things, and also cultures having habits that are unethic and cruel from today's real world perspective.
And honestly: All of them have horrible aspects. It's interesting actually that people usually mention slavery by the Dunmer Houses, or perhaps Altmer eugenics (and, already rarer, Bosmer cannibalism), but rarely talk about Dunmer Ashlanders kidnapping travellers, Redguards/Rowada genociding the Nedes, Nords genociding the original Falmer, Reachmen kidnapping random people to sacrifice them to the daedra, or serfdom and slavery in other cultures than the Dunmer (though it also existed in Akaviri, Altmer, Breton, Imperial, Nord - Windhelm is supposed to have been built by Snow Elf slaves - and Redguard society, possibly even more; plus the different slaver gangs/cartels often having members from all over the continent). It has, lore-wise, always been an ugly world. Very much like real world human history. And that's one aspect I always found particularly interesting: How detailed the history of the fictional world is. And this interesting aspect (and part of the appeal) is missing if we'd only get some harmless sanitized stories about mundane topics in the future.I do wonder how much people in general want to read in a game. I guess it depends on the game as well as the person. Other factors might contribute, too. While I often do want to read the lore/history/notes/etc. in a game, now and then I just won't be in the mood. I just want to get in, run around, and bash stuff.
I rarely have that feeling, but I'm also not sure if ESO would work for me if it came to that. I'm generally not a big fan of the style of ESO's combat which focusses so much on skill usage instead of actually using your weapon (and yes, I know that's not uncommon for MMOs) - I just accept that it's the way it is, because I want to see the new lore. That's the main reason I'm here. Of course not finding the combat itself very interesting, I don't put much time into practicing it - which of course means I can't solo some hard vet dungeons, but that's okay. I don't need to. (Though I was a bit confused today when I read posts by people saying they usually play vet dungeons and trials, but weren't able to kill mobs in the Night Market - which I was able to, even if it was a bit annoying at times.)I agree. Some of the lines they say feel like they could lead to a deeper conversation, but they're really just flavor text that crops up now and then. I really would love to go to a tavern with my companions, sit down, have an ale (or tea!) and just chat for a bit.
It might seem mundane, perhaps, but I think in terms of storytelling for a companion story, also having mundane aspects might be exactly the right thing. Moments where you just talk or do something nice together - not running around, fighting dangerous foes or solving some big problem all the time.I think Molag Bal plays fast and loose with all the "rules." Today I did a quest in Glenumbra (for a ghost, of course!) in the town of Westry. During the course of the quest, you find that one villager bargained with Molag Bal (to save the village from a Nord invasion) and gave Bal everyone in the village. So, because this one guy was stupid and desperate, the souls of everyone in the village belong to Molag Bal? How does that work? How can anyone in Tamriel be sure of anything if some jerk can promise away their soul to any Daedric Prince? The most devout Divines-loving person could find themselves forever in Coldharbour because someone else thought it was worth whatever they could get out of Molag Bal.
I can't remember that quest. Did that villager have any special skills? And how did all those people die? We know that every random Worm Cultist can send people to Molag Bal by sacrificing them. So, what is needed for that sacrifice? A ritual circle, some spell, some magic items? Perhaps someone could just arrange some items around a village, so everyone dying in that area would count as a sacrifice?Now, in Mannimarco's case, he may or may not have given away his soul. No idea what value he put on his own soul, or whether he thought he could achieve his ascension and so it wouldn't matter in the end. In thinking more about the Sancre Tor thing specifically, I wondered if he thought Molag Bal couldn't "see" him there, because at one point Mannimarco does taunt us by saying the wards of Stendarr won't hinder him, but they will keep Molag Bal from noticing what's going on.
Well, that sounds possible.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm on page 6 so far, on both accounts. I haven't completed either of the two current seasonal tasks, but I probably will eventually get the "100 bosses" one done, since the little bosses for quests count towards that, and I've been doing a lot of questing.
I'm on page 8 now and noticed yesterday that both bonus pages (11 and 12) unlock at the same time. So I think I only have between 4000 and 5000 points left until I've unlocked the last page. I saw today they added a Night Market seasonal task worth 2000 points - not sure if I'll be able to complete that one, though. Well, actually I might, while just playing the Market, but it's possible I've already reached the remaining 5000 points with other tasks before that. I mean, the whole thing has just been running for 4 weeks, and I'm already on page 8 - the system is generous with points, at least.
The Night Market - well, actually I like the principle, but I also liked the Writhing Fortress (when it worked without bugs). I have exactly one problem, personally: There's no one around. On my own, I can't really fight bosses (and actually I'm fighting extra lousy right now; my keyboard got defective a few days ago and I just switched to a new one yesterday, which I'm absolutely not used to yet), and fighting mobs takes so long, it's not fun. I can sneak around for the quests (it even works much better than expected), but that doesn't help me with those fragments needed for the house, as the majority of them drops from bosses. I hope there might be more people on the weekend, but if not, I'm honestly not very optimistic when it comes to completing those collectibles. Not too sad about it, but it's a bit of a pity - just like the whole Night Market issue; interesting design, but without enough people around, it just doesn't work. I wish I could just clone myself like Divayth, as I believe 3 or 4 of myself would probably get along well with the new content (estimated by how I got along solo with the mobs today).
In case you haven't seen yet, I left a longer review on the official feedback thread - I also wrote a bit about the general character design and dialogues there (based on the German localization, obviously, so I don't know if the English original might be similar or very different to that):
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8467104/#Comment_8467104
The Night Market is not what I want out of this game. At all.I don't expect deeply involved quests with the favors system, but I do expect them to have something to do with the person for whom we're doing the favor and give us some more insight into their character. I'll find out if my expectations are met when they go live.
I'd hope so. We'll know... when? In July? Then it's just slightly over 2 months.
I'm actually not entirely sure when the next content comes out. I do foresee myself taking a break from ESO, however.I never wished for a poster of any npc, but I'm not going to turn one down.
I'm not sure if all those pictures will have the same format and shape, but it made me think, if that is the case, they should also let us get empty picture frames for gold from some merchant (or make them craftable).
That would be cool! I'd say they should have both: merchants who sell frames, and also craftable ones. That way those of us with bad rng won't be at the mercy of those with good rng who overcharge for their good luck.I think I probably won't really understand the Vault until I've done it, but that's fine. A bit of exploration and figuring things out can be a lot of fun.
It is. One aspect I enjoyed about the Market so far is that you need to figure things out a bit (and I didn't find it hard) - then again, I've come across lots of forum posts by people being confused and wishing for a tutorial or something. Which makes me wonder how the Vault and the Rumors will generally be received.
I think the expectation for them will be different. At least it is for me. Going in, I know the Vault and Rumors aren't meant to be obvious, are meant to require some thinking/puzzling. I'm aware Night Market has puzzles, too--one of the quest npcs even mentions them--but I think difficult combat is the main thrust of that zone, so people might not have been expecting puzzles.Is the sloth with a wizard hat a meme? I mean, when I first played that quest, it felt like a meme to me, but since I'm never current on memes, I didn't recognize it.
I don't know details, either, but I know there are thousands of pictures online of sloths wearing wizard hats (which aren't even a very common thing in TES). Also, sloths were "fashionable" for a while - I honestly have no clue how these fads start, but I do notice how suddenly all kinds of mundane items, from yoghurt cups to toilet paper, got plastered with owls, foxes, alpacas, sloths, capybaras, and what ever the currently fashionable animal might be. I also deem it possible that that weird alpaca-ish ESO mount (Brekka, I think?) might have been a (very late) reaction to the alpaca fad.
The fashionable animal fads mystify me a bit. Whenever I come across one, the comments of people gushing over the animals make them sound like they never before realized that animals are cool and interesting and cute. Or like they never realized there are animals other than cats and dogs. What bothers me about fashionable animals trends is that people might end up acquiring one of these animals as a "pet" not because they're truly interested in the animal (which, if they were, they'd realize it shouldn't be a pet), and then the animal suffers as a result.You've mentioned the noble with the pet a couple times, and I'm not sure who you're talking about. Is it the Skingrad Count who has a bear?
Yes, that one. He didn't talk about the bear all the time, but the lines he had, at least in German, felt a little weird. Of course people love their pet and are happy if a lost pet is returned to them, and that has also been the case historically (sources from Ancient Greece or from the Middle Ages exist, which show how much people loved and valued their pets - and also their way of thinking about them; how and what for they praised them, for example), but the wording and presentation felt so... clichéd? Performative, in a way. It reminded me of teenage or young adult influencers exaggeratedly proclaiming their love for something in front of a camera. Not very genuine. Obviously, very "modern", too. Not really the way a nobleman in a medieval world would likely praise their pet.
Hmm, I didn't notice that aspect to it. I was happy to save the bear, because I like animals and it's a nice change to get a 'save the animal' quest rather than a 'kill all the animals' quest, but I wished I could have returned the bear to the wild afterwards. Bears are wild animals, not domestic companion animals, and mostly I thought the Count was a jerk for confining a bear to a castle and making a pet out of it. Though, sadly, that kind of self-centered behavior is all too common in the ruling class of any age.It is possible the overall tone of writing has changed over the years, become a bit lighter. There could be many reasons for this, but one I wonder about is players expressing dislike of some of the more serious/somber tones. I've seen people complain about ambient npc voice lines that disagree with a choice the player made in a quest. I've also seen someone say they'll never replay a certain quest because it has no "good" ending. (It was in Stonefalls zone chat years ago, and there were several people agreeing with the opinon.) It could be that people just don't like ambiguous or even darker quest results--that they want to feel they made the good and right choice and the npcs' lives are better for it. Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone, but if enough people have made it known they don't like the darker writing, or if ZOS sees that certain quests just don't get completed much, it might have influenced the general tone of writing.
Well, we never know percentages, obviously, but I don't doubt there might be players who want everything funny and happy, and who find Rigurt's clownery, or current memes being referenced in ESO's writing absolutely hilarious, and who wish to ride a sparkling pink unicorn to a sanitized Sanguine festival where nothing remotely shocking happens. What I'm wondering about is if it's worth it, not only because it alienates players who prefer more serious writing, but also because it's so far from what Tamriel originally was, what its people concerned themselves with, and how the games presented it. TES always had dark themes, big tragedies, daedric cults actually doing gruesome things, and also cultures having habits that are unethic and cruel from today's real world perspective.
And honestly: All of them have horrible aspects. It's interesting actually that people usually mention slavery by the Dunmer Houses, or perhaps Altmer eugenics (and, already rarer, Bosmer cannibalism), but rarely talk about Dunmer Ashlanders kidnapping travellers, Redguards/Rowada genociding the Nedes, Nords genociding the original Falmer, Reachmen kidnapping random people to sacrifice them to the daedra, or serfdom and slavery in other cultures than the Dunmer (though it also existed in Akaviri, Altmer, Breton, Imperial, Nord - Windhelm is supposed to have been built by Snow Elf slaves - and Redguard society, possibly even more; plus the different slaver gangs/cartels often having members from all over the continent). It has, lore-wise, always been an ugly world. Very much like real world human history. And that's one aspect I always found particularly interesting: How detailed the history of the fictional world is. And this interesting aspect (and part of the appeal) is missing if we'd only get some harmless sanitized stories about mundane topics in the future.
Most of the races are colonizing overlords. I'm running characters through base game zones, and currently on Betnikh. I've never liked the Betnikh story, because its assumes I'm sympathetic to colonizers who eradicated the people who originally lived there. Even the flashback scene we play where we see what the Breton king tried to do to save his island from the invaders, the invaders call the king a 'coward' for his actions, and the quest assumes we agree. The orcs in the quest keep talking about "their" island and how they aren't going to let anyone "take it" from them. And I'm thinking: oh, you mean like you took it from the Bretons?
I know this is how people have done things historically in the real world--might makes right and all that b.s. I know it fits the pseudo-medieval world of Elder Scrolls. I don't have an issue with the quests existing or the culture being presented that way--but I don't have to like it, and I think it would be nice if I could have said to at least one orc on that island: what goes around comes around, dude--deal with it. (Side note: previewing this post before submitting it, I see that the emoticons are huge now--like, so big! Well, I'm leaving it in.)
Anyway, to the point, every race/culture in the game has its darker side, I agree. Yet having all that darkness present everywhere we go in the game can get to be a bit much. The quests I like the best and that really resonate with me aren't the dark ones, nor are they the silly ones. I like the quests with emotional heft that also touch on the culture and history of the people and places. I've mentioned before that I think the Wrothgar main quest isn't anything special (it was pretty clear quite early on that Kurog and his mother were behind all the shenanigans, and the plot itself was kind of trite) but the side quests and clan quests--those are wonderful. My favorite (though it always makes me a bit sad) is A Khajiit's Tale (and I don't even mind the pun in the quest title). That's the kind of writing and questing I like. Daedric Princes are, for the most part, boring to me and their constant machinations are always the same--we know they aren't going to "win" anyway.I do wonder how much people in general want to read in a game. I guess it depends on the game as well as the person. Other factors might contribute, too. While I often do want to read the lore/history/notes/etc. in a game, now and then I just won't be in the mood. I just want to get in, run around, and bash stuff.
I rarely have that feeling, but I'm also not sure if ESO would work for me if it came to that. I'm generally not a big fan of the style of ESO's combat which focusses so much on skill usage instead of actually using your weapon (and yes, I know that's not uncommon for MMOs) - I just accept that it's the way it is, because I want to see the new lore. That's the main reason I'm here. Of course not finding the combat itself very interesting, I don't put much time into practicing it - which of course means I can't solo some hard vet dungeons, but that's okay. I don't need to. (Though I was a bit confused today when I read posts by people saying they usually play vet dungeons and trials, but weren't able to kill mobs in the Night Market - which I was able to, even if it was a bit annoying at times.)
If you're able to solo mob packs in the Night Market, you are quite proficient at ESO combat. Myself, I'm not that great at it (as I'm sure you're aware by now) but I'm good enough for what I like to do in game, so I don't worry about it. I don't particularly like ESO's combat system and it's quite different from other MMOs I've played/play. Anyway, sometimes I'm just not in the mood to read a lot of text in ESO--I just want to be out doing things.I think Molag Bal plays fast and loose with all the "rules." Today I did a quest in Glenumbra (for a ghost, of course!) in the town of Westry. During the course of the quest, you find that one villager bargained with Molag Bal (to save the village from a Nord invasion) and gave Bal everyone in the village. So, because this one guy was stupid and desperate, the souls of everyone in the village belong to Molag Bal? How does that work? How can anyone in Tamriel be sure of anything if some jerk can promise away their soul to any Daedric Prince? The most devout Divines-loving person could find themselves forever in Coldharbour because someone else thought it was worth whatever they could get out of Molag Bal.
I can't remember that quest. Did that villager have any special skills? And how did all those people die? We know that every random Worm Cultist can send people to Molag Bal by sacrificing them. So, what is needed for that sacrifice? A ritual circle, some spell, some magic items? Perhaps someone could just arrange some items around a village, so everyone dying in that area would count as a sacrifice?
The person who made the deal with Molag Bal was a priest of Stendarr. He didn't perform any ritual--or, if he did, the player wasn't shown that aspect of it. Our role was to replay his wife's last day and try to figure out why the village was cursed and fix it if possible. So all we saw was him kneeling in the attic of his house, appealing to Molag Bal/striking a bargain. The people died because the Nords invaded the village--that's all the information we get about it. I'm not even sure how long ago it was meant to have taken place. But somehow, in the end, defeating his wife in her angry ghost form (which bears no resemblance to her gentle ghost form) allows us to choose to either free the villager spirits from being bound there forever, or neutralize the Nord skeltons and wraiths to make the village safe for mortals. It's all very vague and loose about how any of it works or if it follows any metaphysical rules at all.
Amusingly enough, the town of Westtry is the one Jakarn claims to be a prince of--we learn this on Stros M'Kai when we talk to the infatuated Altmer who wants us to help Jakarn escape prison. She tells us he told her he's a prince of Westtry and that he described the place as warm and pleasant and full of life. Since Westtry has been a literal ghost town for some time now (long enough for the ghost priest who gives us that quest to not remember details of what happened), I get the feeling Jakarn chose Westtry because he knew there was no one still living who could contradict his claim to be a prince of the village. I like that a small detail like that was dropped into one of the first Daggerfall Covenant quests a player would come across, and may or may not remember by the time they encountered the actual village of Westtry.
Edited by metheglyn on 30 April 2026 15:360 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Night Market is not what I want out of this game. At all.
Ah, the joys of group content! You know I have a dislike for it, and playing in groups for 6 days now has actually just confirmed why I don't find it much fun (I chose to do it, because I decided to try to unlock those rooms and furnishings - also because there's not much going on in ESO right now anyway - , so this is not meant to be a complaint!). I started with joining random groups, sometimes they were competent, other times I came across group leaders who couldn't even navigate the map, but ran around aimlessly in circles. Which led to me opening my own groups in frustration, and while I can navigate, getting 11 people to... well, I wouldn't even say "cooperate", but just getting them to actually go to the boss we had agreed on tackling - instead of randomly wandering off to who knows where - turned out to be surprisingly hard sometimes. Another surprising problem was people randomly doing counterproductive things (like attacking a boss plus masses of mobs at the same time, instead of killing them one by one - of course we got run over), and not even stopping when group members told them not to do it. Being clueless is one thing, but not being able to listen at least that much... It really often feels like herding cats!
Well, I already hated group work back in elementary school, because you always got some dunces assigned to your group that made the whole thing more complicated and frustrating than it would have been if you had done the whole work completely alone. It always felt inefficient and like a waste of time (and potentially ruined your grade if the project was graded as a whole). Funny thing actually, they always emphasized how much of an important skill this was for future jobs - well, fact is, I never had any problems working with colleagues in my adult life. Why? I guess because we were on the same level when it came to skills and intellect (and I never experienced colleagues doing absolutely nothing and expecting everyone else to get the work done either).
Well, apart from this... It's been a week now that I've been doing my explorations, and I'm slowly getting bored. What I had enjoyed were the days of exploring, looking at everything, trying things out... Well, that obviously only lasts for a few days as the zones aren't exactly huge (big for a dungeon, but for exploration - not quite).
But I think what's the biggest problem for me is that it's so light in terms of story. It's just that fancy mysterious daedric realm where there are enemies (which are mostly copies from other places in Tamriel) and some weird arcade-like games for unknown reasons, and you need to kill the enemies and play the arcade games to get some favor points to be able to buy things from your faction. Well, it's actually not just light on story content, I think what bothers me more is that what's there feels random. There's a disconnect between the factions, the background story, and the actual playable content (none of the things you actually do there are really related to your faction's alleged interests and goals - unless you play for the one faction whose main identity is combat, perhaps) - it feels like the whole "story" is nothing but a colorful facade for killing bosses and playing arcade games. And that's absolutely not what I want to see from a narration. If there's a background story, I want it to be an immersive experience, want it to make sense as a whole, and tasks and story should clearly be logically connected.
I also noticed again how important, for me personally, it is that what I'm doing in game has some meaning in the game world. Just running around randomly killing something for points... It bores me. First and foremost, I'm a roleplayer in the traditional sense - I want to partake in some kind of fantasy narration with my character. Also, I want to learn about the fictional world and its people, and at best, what I read or see even makes me think about it. So, it's basically the same issue here that I also had with the Archive: It was fun to see everything once when it was new, but after that, there's nothing that interests me about it (in the Archive it also just became a grind for the currency then, because I needed it to buy those book furnishings I wanted; and in this case it will turn into a grind for extra housing rooms and furnishings as well). But it's good of course that it exists, for the people who enjoy it. But for me personally, it's not quite it.
Of course it made me think - this was announced as experimental content that could change when ever needed... Are there things we've seen here that could return in some other form in upcoming content? Also thinking at Winterhold and the "excursion zone" term... Well, I hope you won't just venture out of town for random fetch quests given inside of town there! Yes, of course it's too early for speculations. I've read there's another stream on the 20th, by the way, most likely about the storylines of the next release. When will we likely hear about Winterhold? Probably not before autumn, I think.
Well, there's a tendency we've been witnessing since Solstice already, though, that made me wonder: Having so many town npcs without any dialogue at all. We saw it on Solstice, now we see it in the Night Market again. Then, we already know that the Favors system will have us interact with a writ board instead of the actual npc the tasks are supposed to be for - and in the Night Market I also noticed that the absolute majority of quests (all from inside the combat zone - 15 in total) involves no npc interaction at all - you get the quests by reading some note, and you turn them it at some box (they're also all just fetch quests in principle; even one that was about some mysterious letters, which sounded like a scavenger hunt to me, turned out to be nothing more than running from questmarker to questmarker - there was nothing hidden, no puzzle, nothing to figure out). I know that voice acting is probably some of the costlier things when creating content for a game, but this is a bit sad.
Well, that was a lot about the Market; I shouldn't bother you with that here, too, I guess. The forums are full with this topic right now anyway - to the point I've also gotten bored of that and barely read it anymore (though that's also a matter of post "quality" - sadly, many posts also don't look like they're an actual discussion that could lead to anything useful, but it looks more like people just bashing their heads in over some different opinion; that feels like a waste of time to me).I'm actually not entirely sure when the next content comes out. I do foresee myself taking a break from ESO, however.
It's all supposed to drop some time between July and September, spread out, I guess, and probably it also depends on when it's ready. Right now, there's really not much going on for people who aren't interested in the Market. I was actually surprised to see that there's not even any other event in May (the roadmap was just posted some days ago) - wasn't there usually something around this time of the year? The PvP thing perhaps? Well, I'd hope for the Impresaria to return soon, so I can spend those currency things acquired through the new chore system (yes, I'm aware I can also spend them through the category tab in the crown store, but there's nothing left in that selection that I'm interested in, but the Impresaria should have some fragments I need).
I've reached page 9 of the chore book, by the way. I think tomorrow I'll probably unlock page 10. Then, it's another 2000 points for the bonus pages to unlock - some nice furnishings, and some gamble boxes that might or might not drop something interesting. I'll probably know in 2 weeks or so! Or even earlier. How nice I'll not have to look at any chores for 6 weeks or so after that (until the hamster wheel resets). I heard the excessive points would be converted into gold (though I never seen any detailed info on the rate), but I'm not sure if that would motivate me. Probably not.I think the expectation for them will be different. At least it is for me. Going in, I know the Vault and Rumors aren't meant to be obvious, are meant to require some thinking/puzzling. I'm aware Night Market has puzzles, too--one of the quest npcs even mentions them--but I think difficult combat is the main thrust of that zone, so people might not have been expecting puzzles.
Oh, I wasn't talking about actual puzzles. I've seen that some people seem to be confused by aspects like killing specific bosses causing to spawn other bosses (though we've seen the same thing already in the Writhing Fortress last year), or that there are fragments to create some relic that's needed to interact with the world at different locations (though that's also nothing new to ESO - even if it was just that weird Heart's Day amulet from the past event). I've even seen people specifically demanding video tutorials for that.The fashionable animal fads mystify me a bit. Whenever I come across one, the comments of people gushing over the animals make them sound like they never before realized that animals are cool and interesting and cute. Or like they never realized there are animals other than cats and dogs. What bothers me about fashionable animals trends is that people might end up acquiring one of these animals as a "pet" not because they're truly interested in the animal (which, if they were, they'd realize it shouldn't be a pet), and then the animal suffers as a result.
It's very weird! Often it's not even rare or exotic animals people might actually have never heard of before, but they only come to decide that they're cute if there's a fad coming up about it. Owls are such an example; I doubt there's any person where I live who didn't know about owls before (and the same goes for foxes), but for some reason they never cared about them, but when they became fashionable, it's suddenly owls everywhere and everybody loved them. But at least we don't have the problem with people keeping all kinds of wild animals as pets here, as there are rather strict regulations by animal protection laws. People are actually often very astonished if they see some documentary from abroad and find out that there are countries where people can just keep a fox, or even some exotic animal like a tiger or a chimpanzee at home (the only allowed and common exotic animals here are parrots or aquarium/terrarium animals, though depending on their protection status, people might also need some certificate to be allowed to have them).Hmm, I didn't notice that aspect to it. I was happy to save the bear, because I like animals and it's a nice change to get a 'save the animal' quest rather than a 'kill all the animals' quest, but I wished I could have returned the bear to the wild afterwards. Bears are wild animals, not domestic companion animals, and mostly I thought the Count was a jerk for confining a bear to a castle and making a pet out of it.
While in real life that's absolutely true, interestingly I don't really get that feeling that much in ESO (it really is interesting, thinking about it). Probably because it's a weird world where everyone is running around with weird pets and mounts, and wild animals don't really seem alive anyway - they just stand on their spot until some player might randomly kill them (over and over, if there's a chore about it). I've also noticed rather early after I got into ESO, that a town npc's death feels absolutely meaningless, because they respawn within a minute or so anyway - while back in other TES games, if an npc I liked died (by a dragon or vampire attack in Skyrim, for example), I would feel sorry and reload a savegame. In ESO, it doesn't matter, they all come back anyway. Which does take away from the immersion, but that's one of the unavoidable downsides of an MMO, where the world needs to remain the same for every player, I guess.Most of the races are colonizing overlords. I'm running characters through base game zones, and currently on Betnikh. I've never liked the Betnikh story, because its assumes I'm sympathetic to colonizers who eradicated the people who originally lived there.
I generally don't like if the game assumes our character's opinion on things - it's a roleplaying game, after all, so I want to be able to define my character's way of thinking myself. It's true of course that conquering regions absolutely fits a medieval fantasy game, but I don't think that automatically means a player character would always be okay with it, or with particular events, especially. If a Breton town was attacked, even if it had been centuries ago, why would a Breton character necessarily be fine with that? It's not uncommon to hold grudges. Or perhaps a player character and their family might have been displaced from their home recently (even if, for some strange reasons, you barely hear of it in many stories, there's a war going on in Cyrodiil, after all), so their opinion could also be influenced by that.
But don't get me wrong: I absolutely don't want only morally correct dialogue options either. Depending on who my character is, they could be absolutely fine with a cruel and immoral event - if it goes against some enemy, for example. Or their cultural background might have shaped their thinking that the strongest had the right to take what they want. We have cultures in game that are like that, thinking of traditional Orc tribes, for example. I absolutely do not want the game cultures to be altered according to real world morals. But I'd like to see real dialogue options for player characters to voice their opinion on an event, no matter if positive or negative - I want to have a choice to be able to play my characters how I imagine them.
Another thing I find a little strange is how there seems to be some kind of differenciation when it comes to behavior that would be unethical in the real world: Some things are clearly depicted as horrible and wrong in writing, or they even try to avoid the topic as best as they can (Dunmer slavery was toned down a lot in ESO) - but on the other hand we have the ancient Redguard seafarers exploring foreign lands and slaughtering everyone, and no one bats an eye about it; the opposite even, I have the impression it's depicted rather positively, and there's even a special Crown Crates season about it ("Warrior Wave" - that's the lore name of those campaigns where they sailed to foreign shores and killed all natives they found).
And then there's cases of "evil = cool", of course, specifically the Dark Brotherhood (But not, under any circumstances, the Worm Cult, of course! No, don't find those interesting, those are the baddies!!!), but that's a different topic entirely.Anyway, to the point, every race/culture in the game has its darker side, I agree. Yet having all that darkness present everywhere we go in the game can get to be a bit much. The quests I like the best and that really resonate with me aren't the dark ones, nor are they the silly ones. I like the quests with emotional heft that also touch on the culture and history of the people and places.
Indeed! Though I absolutely don't mind darker themes personally, it's really about the emotional impact a story leaves, and also for me, another aspect that's very important is exploring the fictional cultures. That's also why I'm not very interested in rather generic stories that could take place at any time and any place. Well, not talking about "big" themes that are related to the human condition, but things where one gets the feeling it's just some modern meme or current popular real-world media topic somehow put into Tamriel (often times then not feeling quite right for the fictional world, arbitrary in a way, not really relating to the world lore).
But actually I wasn't thinking so much about dark vs light-hearted (and ESO/TES always had some humour, also in the base game, though I'd say it was also a different kind of humour somehow), but more about the meme-y content just being "funny" and nothing beyond it. It's superficial, some gag or quip for the moment, and that's it. No emotional depth, no lore, no... well. No impact, in a way. It doesn't even really relate to the fictional world. Humour could also be written in a way that fits Tamriel - I actually think there are lots of more humourous quests that could be written that absolutely fit the lore and even contribute to world building, specifically playing with the different Tamrielian cultures and their different world views, for example.
Another aspect is language. Not sure how much difference there is in English, but often, these meme-y things in writing also feel off when it comes to their wording. Obviously, if they clearly refer to some meme phrase or similar - then they need to use the same in ESO so it is even recognizable as a meme. For me, that absolutely doesn't help with immersion, so I'd rather not see that. I often also wonder: Why even resort to memes that much? Nirn has such a rich background lore, so many things could be done with that!If you're able to solo mob packs in the Night Market, you are quite proficient at ESO combat.
I don't know, I just run around enemies, trying to avoid getting hit, and shoot at them while doing so. At some point, they're dead. I don't have any special rotation, or a special build or anything. Not interested enough in that aspect of the game. For me it's just trial and error until things worked out well.The person who made the deal with Molag Bal was a priest of Stendarr. He didn't perform any ritual--or, if he did, the player wasn't shown that aspect of it. Our role was to replay his wife's last day and try to figure out why the village was cursed and fix it if possible. So all we saw was him kneeling in the attic of his house, appealing to Molag Bal/striking a bargain. The people died because the Nords invaded the village--that's all the information we get about it. I'm not even sure how long ago it was meant to have taken place. But somehow, in the end, defeating his wife in her angry ghost form (which bears no resemblance to her gentle ghost form) allows us to choose to either free the villager spirits from being bound there forever, or neutralize the Nord skeltons and wraiths to make the village safe for mortals. It's all very vague and loose about how any of it works or if it follows any metaphysical rules at all.
If no further info is given, my personal idea would be that that priest likely made some ritual preparations beforehand - invocation of Molag Bal, some ritual items hidden around the village like it was some big ritual circle, or whatever might be needed, and then the enemies conveniently did the slaughtering. I think who does the killing doesn't really matter for the ritual. Sure, we see Mannimarco using his dagger in that one cutscene, but if he had thrown us in a pit of hungry lions instead, it would probably have worked all the same.Amusingly enough, the town of Westtry is the one Jakarn claims to be a prince of--we learn this on Stros M'Kai when we talk to the infatuated Altmer who wants us to help Jakarn escape prison. She tells us he told her he's a prince of Westtry and that he described the place as warm and pleasant and full of life. Since Westtry has been a literal ghost town for some time now (long enough for the ghost priest who gives us that quest to not remember details of what happened), I get the feeling Jakarn chose Westtry because he knew there was no one still living who could contradict his claim to be a prince of the village. I like that a small detail like that was dropped into one of the first Daggerfall Covenant quests a player would come across, and may or may not remember by the time they encountered the actual village of Westtry.
That's indeed a nice detail! I like when they do such things in game. It shows care for the lore.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake1 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Night Market is not what I want out of this game. At all.
But I think what's the biggest problem for me is that it's so light in terms of story. It's just that fancy mysterious daedric realm where there are enemies (which are mostly copies from other places in Tamriel) and some weird arcade-like games for unknown reasons, and you need to kill the enemies and play the arcade games to get some favor points to be able to buy things from your faction. Well, it's actually not just light on story content, I think what bothers me more is that what's there feels random. There's a disconnect between the factions, the background story, and the actual playable content (none of the things you actually do there are really related to your faction's alleged interests and goals - unless you play for the one faction whose main identity is combat, perhaps) - it feels like the whole "story" is nothing but a colorful facade for killing bosses and playing arcade games. And that's absolutely not what I want to see from a narration. If there's a background story, I want it to be an immersive experience, want it to make sense as a whole, and tasks and story should clearly be logically connected.
From everything they said about the Night Market leading up to it, I never got the idea it was going to have much story behind it. It has the central mystery: what is this place and why is it only around sometimes. But fiction mysteries that have no solution (by design) aren't really that interesting to me. It'd be one thing if, while playing through the area, people could find clues/potential answers to the mystery, if not an outright solution. But if it's just a mystery for mystery's sake, and has no real connection to the rest of the world/planes of Oblivion, I find that a bit lacking.I also noticed again how important, for me personally, it is that what I'm doing in game has some meaning in the game world. Just running around randomly killing something for points... It bores me. First and foremost, I'm a roleplayer in the traditional sense - I want to partake in some kind of fantasy narration with my character. Also, I want to learn about the fictional world and its people, and at best, what I read or see even makes me think about it. So, it's basically the same issue here that I also had with the Archive: It was fun to see everything once when it was new, but after that, there's nothing that interests me about it (in the Archive it also just became a grind for the currency then, because I needed it to buy those book furnishings I wanted; and in this case it will turn into a grind for extra housing rooms and furnishings as well). But it's good of course that it exists, for the people who enjoy it. But for me personally, it's not quite it.
At this point in my MMO life, I just don't have the time/energy for completing grinds like these. The activities of the grind have to be something I enjoy before I'll commit to a grind at all. It also helps if I can also plan out how many days/weeks I need to put into it before I can get the reward: a definite end-date for when I can finish.
Well, to each their own. I can see from the generality of forum posts that the place is quite popular/liked, and it's nice that so many people are having such a good time with it.Of course it made me think - this was announced as experimental content that could change when ever needed... Are there things we've seen here that could return in some other form in upcoming content? Also thinking at Winterhold and the "excursion zone" term... Well, I hope you won't just venture out of town for random fetch quests given inside of town there! Yes, of course it's too early for speculations. I've read there's another stream on the 20th, by the way, most likely about the storylines of the next release. When will we likely hear about Winterhold? Probably not before autumn, I think.
Well, there's a tendency we've been witnessing since Solstice already, though, that made me wonder: Having so many town npcs without any dialogue at all. We saw it on Solstice, now we see it in the Night Market again. Then, we already know that the Favors system will have us interact with a writ board instead of the actual npc the tasks are supposed to be for - and in the Night Market I also noticed that the absolute majority of quests (all from inside the combat zone - 15 in total) involves no npc interaction at all - you get the quests by reading some note, and you turn them it at some box (they're also all just fetch quests in principle; even one that was about some mysterious letters, which sounded like a scavenger hunt to me, turned out to be nothing more than running from questmarker to questmarker - there was nothing hidden, no puzzle, nothing to figure out). I know that voice acting is probably some of the costlier things when creating content for a game, but this is a bit sad.
It is experimental, but since they haven't defined what they consider experimental about it, it's impossible to know what parts of it they are looking at for possible change (if it doesn't work) or iteration (if it does). I do understand the need for them to produce relatively low-maintenance content that can keep players engaged for long stretches of time--story quests and zones are likely big budget items that take a long time to create and then players tear through super fast.
So if I had to guess what they mean about "excursion zone" I would think something that is a combination of story questing in the classic style of the game, and then some evergreen content added to it. Perhaps some form of repeatable quest that isn't the usual delve/world boss/incursion repeatable; something that has more narrative cohesion to it instead of just a round of chores. Or perhaps the zone story will be time-released. (LotRO does this sometimes: they'll release a quest arc over time, usually in weekly intervals).
Or perhaps it'll just be open-world Night Market with a different name.
Whatever it is, I think you're right that we probably won't hear anything much about it until autumn.I'm actually not entirely sure when the next content comes out. I do foresee myself taking a break from ESO, however.
It's all supposed to drop some time between July and September, spread out, I guess, and probably it also depends on when it's ready. Right now, there's really not much going on for people who aren't interested in the Market. I was actually surprised to see that there's not even any other event in May (the roadmap was just posted some days ago) - wasn't there usually something around this time of the year? The PvP thing perhaps? Well, I'd hope for the Impresaria to return soon, so I can spend those currency things acquired through the new chore system (yes, I'm aware I can also spend them through the category tab in the crown store, but there's nothing left in that selection that I'm interested in, but the Impresaria should have some fragments I need).
I think Mayhem used to happen around this time of year--before the chapter release. Or was it after? Eh, I don't know. I never paid much attention to it. At least the trade bars don't expire, though, or have a cap, so you can just happily stockpile them for whenever the vendor comes back with something you want.I've reached page 9 of the chore book, by the way. I think tomorrow I'll probably unlock page 10. Then, it's another 2000 points for the bonus pages to unlock - some nice furnishings, and some gamble boxes that might or might not drop something interesting. I'll probably know in 2 weeks or so! Or even earlier. How nice I'll not have to look at any chores for 6 weeks or so after that (until the hamster wheel resets). I heard the excessive points would be converted into gold (though I never seen any detailed info on the rate), but I'm not sure if that would motivate me. Probably not.
I don't know what the exchange rate for points to gold will be, but it's unlikely to be significant enough to make chasing points worthwhile. I'm on page 7 on one account, and page 8 on another. I've not been playing a whole lot lately. It still remains to be seen whether or not I finish off the pages. If I was desperate to do so, I have tome point caches, but I'd have to be really desperate to open one of those.Hmm, I didn't notice that aspect to it. I was happy to save the bear, because I like animals and it's a nice change to get a 'save the animal' quest rather than a 'kill all the animals' quest, but I wished I could have returned the bear to the wild afterwards. Bears are wild animals, not domestic companion animals, and mostly I thought the Count was a jerk for confining a bear to a castle and making a pet out of it.
While in real life that's absolutely true, interestingly I don't really get that feeling that much in ESO (it really is interesting, thinking about it). Probably because it's a weird world where everyone is running around with weird pets and mounts, and wild animals don't really seem alive anyway - they just stand on their spot until some player might randomly kill them (over and over, if there's a chore about it). I've also noticed rather early after I got into ESO, that a town npc's death feels absolutely meaningless, because they respawn within a minute or so anyway - while back in other TES games, if an npc I liked died (by a dragon or vampire attack in Skyrim, for example), I would feel sorry and reload a savegame. In ESO, it doesn't matter, they all come back anyway. Which does take away from the immersion, but that's one of the unavoidable downsides of an MMO, where the world needs to remain the same for every player, I guess.
When I first started playing the game, I was mystified at how often town npcs got murdered. At that time, I didn't know about the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content that encourages such play. And though technically Thieves Guild sends you to steal, not kill, I've noticed that people often kill the npcs after stealing from them. Anyway, at first I found it a bit shocking, but that was just me being a standard rpg player. And, yes, it was quite odd back then to see an npc standing over their own corpse (since they would respawn before their dead body despawned).
The wild animals don't actually just stand in one spot, especially in later chapters. But even when they do, they still seem alive to me--whether it's a bear just trying to have a nice mid-afternoon nap, or a senche-cat sleekly lying atop a promontory while it gazes over its domain, or a wolf that will sometimes howl to its friends. I go out of my way to not kill the animals on the landscape. I wish they were all non-hostile--you know, the yellow-named mobs--because I find it quite ridiculous that every animal in Nirn is so extremely aggressive. Must be something in the water.Most of the races are colonizing overlords. I'm running characters through base game zones, and currently on Betnikh. I've never liked the Betnikh story, because its assumes I'm sympathetic to colonizers who eradicated the people who originally lived there.
I generally don't like if the game assumes our character's opinion on things - it's a roleplaying game, after all, so I want to be able to define my character's way of thinking myself. It's true of course that conquering regions absolutely fits a medieval fantasy game, but I don't think that automatically means a player character would always be okay with it, or with particular events, especially. If a Breton town was attacked, even if it had been centuries ago, why would a Breton character necessarily be fine with that? It's not uncommon to hold grudges. Or perhaps a player character and their family might have been displaced from their home recently (even if, for some strange reasons, you barely hear of it in many stories, there's a war going on in Cyrodiil, after all), so their opinion could also be influenced by that.
It's actually a bit off-putting to play a Breton through Betnikh, at least for me, especially since the over-arching story is that we're there to convince this tribe of Orcs to join the Daggerfall Covenant. So we have to solve all their island problems for them first, and of course the island problems are Worm Cult related, and then they'll lend their might (?) to the Covenant. But as far as showcasing the life and times of a tribe of colonizing Orcs, the quests are fine--there's nothing wrong with the narrative other than assuming my character has zero problem with helping this tribe that destroyed the previous Breton inhabitants of the island.Anyway, to the point, every race/culture in the game has its darker side, I agree. Yet having all that darkness present everywhere we go in the game can get to be a bit much. The quests I like the best and that really resonate with me aren't the dark ones, nor are they the silly ones. I like the quests with emotional heft that also touch on the culture and history of the people and places.
But actually I wasn't thinking so much about dark vs light-hearted (and ESO/TES always had some humour, also in the base game, though I'd say it was also a different kind of humour somehow), but more about the meme-y content just being "funny" and nothing beyond it. It's superficial, some gag or quip for the moment, and that's it. No emotional depth, no lore, no... well. No impact, in a way. It doesn't even really relate to the fictional world. Humour could also be written in a way that fits Tamriel - I actually think there are lots of more humourous quests that could be written that absolutely fit the lore and even contribute to world building, specifically playing with the different Tamrielian cultures and their different world views, for example.
That's actually my main problem with both the Rigurt and Lady Laurent series of quests. The first quests are fine--you meet these npcs, learn a little bit about them and their place in the world, and see what they're about. The issue for me comes from the subsequent quests where the characters are exactly the same (well, actually Rigurt might get even more stupid as time goes on).
The very first quest with Lady Laurent in Glenumbra, for example, is interesting enough, especially as you make a choice in that quest that might impact her and Stibbons. (I don't know how well you remember that, but essentially you do a favor for a ghost (of course) in the ruin Laurent is there to rob, and you can choose to give her the real treasure or the cursed treasure. If you give her the cursed treasure, Stibbons' soul leaves his body to stand guard eternally over the treasure, while the ghost you assisted is, for some reason, drawn into Stibbons' body--basically changing who Stibbons even is). Well, that choice is rendered pointless and meaningless when you realize, down the line, that nothing ever changes.
It's the sameness of these quests that bother me, not that they're humorous or light-hearted. These npcs will never grow or change or anything. And I don't even mean that they have to become "better people." There just isn't any depth to them, and their initial character traits are the sum total of who they are. It's like they've been cursed to play out the same story on a loop wherever they go, the only changes being in the minor details of the quest. However, I'm aware that plenty of people do enjoy these characters and quests and wouldn't want them changed up. I guess it's just another case of different people like different things.The person who made the deal with Molag Bal was a priest of Stendarr. He didn't perform any ritual--or, if he did, the player wasn't shown that aspect of it. Our role was to replay his wife's last day and try to figure out why the village was cursed and fix it if possible. So all we saw was him kneeling in the attic of his house, appealing to Molag Bal/striking a bargain. The people died because the Nords invaded the village--that's all the information we get about it. I'm not even sure how long ago it was meant to have taken place. But somehow, in the end, defeating his wife in her angry ghost form (which bears no resemblance to her gentle ghost form) allows us to choose to either free the villager spirits from being bound there forever, or neutralize the Nord skeltons and wraiths to make the village safe for mortals. It's all very vague and loose about how any of it works or if it follows any metaphysical rules at all.
If no further info is given, my personal idea would be that that priest likely made some ritual preparations beforehand - invocation of Molag Bal, some ritual items hidden around the village like it was some big ritual circle, or whatever might be needed, and then the enemies conveniently did the slaughtering. I think who does the killing doesn't really matter for the ritual. Sure, we see Mannimarco using his dagger in that one cutscene, but if he had thrown us in a pit of hungry lions instead, it would probably have worked all the same.
Considering the priest only did a deal with Molag Bal in a desperate bid to save his village from the raiding Nords, it would be strange if he had planned out a ritual. The way it was presented was this: Nords attacked (no reason given); wife led the defense of the town (being the captain of the guard); husband priest stayed at home and prayed to Stendarr for help (no details on how long the attack was going on or how long he'd been praying); wife entered home to check on husband and found him talking to Molag Bal, sealing the hasty deal. It doesn't seem like he had time to perform a ritual, and since everyone in the town, both villagers and ransacking Nords alike, is now cursed with undead existence, forever living out that last day, my question remains the same: can one's soul be bargained away from them that easily?
Well, it's entirely possible I'm giving too much thought to what is simply meant to be a tragic side-quest in a zone full of tragic side-quests and restless ghosts asking for help.
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From everything they said about the Night Market leading up to it, I never got the idea it was going to have much story behind it. It has the central mystery: what is this place and why is it only around sometimes. But fiction mysteries that have no solution (by design) aren't really that interesting to me. It'd be one thing if, while playing through the area, people could find clues/potential answers to the mystery, if not an outright solution. But if it's just a mystery for mystery's sake, and has no real connection to the rest of the world/planes of Oblivion, I find that a bit lacking.
When the Night Market was first mentioned, I thought the focus was combat only, and there wouldn't be much lore to it. Basically like the arenas we've seen in ESO before, or the Archive. But then I heard about it having an unexpected number of lorebooks, so I did think there was some lore to it, and the player could basically discover it bit by bit by finding these documents. We know it's in Fargrave, we know the connections between Fargrave and Ithelia, so I hoped it would give us more lore on that. Sadly, it doesn't.
I think the saddest thing to me is that it's so generic. We know there's some faction striving for wealth, one about combat, one seeking for mysteries (or at least we're told that) - but these are completely meaningless labels because the quests they give are all the same anyway, and they're not even related to their alleged goals. But there's no rooting in TES lore either, not even some simple "We are daedra of Hermaeus Mora, therefore we amass secret knowledge" or "We praise Malacath through battle". They are just random people who, for unexplained reasons, want money, or knowledge, or power. It almost has something clichéd to it, a very simple depiction of the world: Like that's the three life goals people might have.
This genericity also shows up in the combat districts. We have those arcade-like games. No one knows why they are there, or why one should do them - but anyway, your faction gives you favor points for that. Specifically, the text popup tells you it's for "increasing their reputation" - by playing some random games about shooting spiders or rolling boulders or crouching through a tunnel with laser barriers?! How does anything of that has anything to do with TES?
Then we have quests. In many cases, even the quest description is just a one-liner. All very vague. Someone has left notes you need to complete. Some guy has lost whatever and you shall fetch it. Or another example:
"I found a note asking for aid in freeing caged animals captured by poachers. If I free the animals, I can return this note to a collection box on a rooftop oasis to receive payment."
While it's nice to free these animals, it's completely unclear why they are even there in this daedric realm, who they belong to, who gives you the task, or why someone caught them, or why there are even poachers inside those locations (inside some mysterious daedric realm full of dangers where you can't walk three steps without daedra trying to murder you), or how freeing these animals will really help them in that dangerous environment where within a minute some animal daedra would likely eat them (we don't even bring them into safety, despite having transported weirder things in ESO before; we just open the cages, that are surrounded by dozens of dangerous creatures, and that's it)?
Or this one:
"I found a note tacked onto a notice board telling me that the other factions put up horrible propaganda about my faction. For a reward, I can clean up the district and protect our reputation."
Who put this propaganda up and why (There's no one around except for murderous daedra, so who's going to read that?!), what did it say, and why would a faction, which are all depicted as rogue-ish, care for that anyway? It's not mysterious, it's completely random and makes no real sense. And (and that's what I actually wanted to write about): It's completely generic and not related to TES at all. The quest about removing posters spreading evil lies about someone could also take place in a science fiction story set in 2300 in some colony on Mars, in a mafia story in 1920 USA, or in some children's story taking place inside a Swiss elementary school in 2010. Even the wording mentions nothing that hints on this being a TES story, or a fantasy story. It could be any place, any era, any genre. There's not even some bit of embellishment to even make it look like it's somehow TES. It could have been easily written by someone who has never heard a single word about TES lore before. And that makes me wonder... This game did have combat-focused content before, after all, but also dungeons and trials had a story clearly connected to the world of TES.
Though there's one thing about the Market that I actually find really funny. Not sure if you have taken a look into all 3 different zones before you dropped the content, but one of them is more or less "nightmare"-themed, eternal night with werewolves, liches, ghosts, skeletons, and all that. And for some reason, some of the random enemies there are Telvanni. Probably the scariest, most nightmarish enemies they could think of.At this point in my MMO life, I just don't have the time/energy for completing grinds like these. The activities of the grind have to be something I enjoy before I'll commit to a grind at all. It also helps if I can also plan out how many days/weeks I need to put into it before I can get the reward: a definite end-date for when I can finish.
I did just that: I checked how many favor points I can achieve a day, and how many I need, and I looked what the artifact fragments for the housing rooms drop from, and if it's something I can and want to do. So I found out that the favor thing would take me about 2 weeks to reach the maximum I need, and the fragment drops are mostly guaranteed (except for 3 that drop from mobs - but luckily, I already got 2 of them!), so I decided that was achievable for me, and worth the hassle. Indeed I've already reached 50% of the points last evening, and of the fragments for the rooms, I've already obtained 70% (still missing 9 of 30 - I already unlocked one room, and for the other two, I'm still missing 4+5 parts, 8 of them guaranteed drops from bosses - I just need to open groups to fight them, which is what I'll do the next few days). If I've achieved that, I won't bother with the Market again for this season. Not even sure if I will when it returns in autumn - I might have a look if there's something really new that sounds interesting to me (just adjustments for the current stuff wouldn't do it), or perhaps aim for some new goal if the reward is something that truly interests me, but except for that - no. Honestly, I almost hope it's nothing that interests me personally - I'd rather replay early ESO story content than randomly running around, killing random enemies, and fetching random items for unknown random people I never see, in some unexplainable random realm. Edit: Okay, ignore the percentages, I've started writing this post yesterday morning, so by now I have progressed a bit more - and at the same time grown even more bored of the whole Market.It is experimental, but since they haven't defined what they consider experimental about it, it's impossible to know what parts of it they are looking at for possible change (if it doesn't work) or iteration (if it does).
Knowing about the love for recycling, I'd not be surprised to see some of these "puzzles" again in future content. Perhaps with a different skin slapped onto them, so you don't crouch through tunnels with laser lightning traps but instead try to avoid poisoned spikes, or clouds of poisonous gas, or whatever.I do understand the need for them to produce relatively low-maintenance content that can keep players engaged for long stretches of time--story quests and zones are likely big budget items that take a long time to create and then players tear through super fast.
I do, too, but I wonder if this is really it. Right now it has novelty value, but will people play these mini games or fight the same bosses for weeks to come? I don't think so. The Archive had people grind it for the currency and the leads rotating through the watchling merchant's inventory. In the Market, you need to get 10.000 points, then everything unlockable is unlocked (it's points to unlock items at a trader, not a currency - the items themselves are bought with gold; which, by the way, I absolutely prefer, because needing to grind currency would be even worse). For organized groups where people can share quests every day, that's a matter of a few days. For me, who has only one daily faction quest per day, it's two weeks (though I don't really grind much either actually, every day I just do the 2 plaza dailies (one of them is the potentially shareable faction daily, the other one some generic "kill 75 random enemies" task that repeats every day), and the dailies strewn throughout the combat zones that I stumble across (I don't force myself to seek all 15 of them, I just do the ones I see on my way), and a few bosses if I see people around, or sometimes I open a group... but it's not like I'm running around in circles killing thousands of enemies or so - they mostly don't drop anything at all anyway, which is also rather demotivating because it makes those fights completely worthless, except for the potential fragment that might drop - and it's the only thing that they can drop, I think, so it's either fragment or blank, and just like with lottery tickets in real life, it's rarely the prize).So if I had to guess what they mean about "excursion zone" I would think something that is a combination of story questing in the classic style of the game, and then some evergreen content added to it. Perhaps some form of repeatable quest that isn't the usual delve/world boss/incursion repeatable; something that has more narrative cohesion to it instead of just a round of chores. Or perhaps the zone story will be time-released. (LotRO does this sometimes: they'll release a quest arc over time, usually in weekly intervals).
Or perhaps it'll just be open-world Night Market with a different name.
If I had to guess, I'd say it probably has some main story and the surrounding areas of the city could be some kind of solo player Night Market, with a puzzle here, a boss there. Generally I somehow imagine it smaller in scope and with less detail and less different quests and locations than chapters had been in the past. We don't know yet, of course. I just hope it won't disappoint the story- and exploration-focused players who, from the impression I got, seem to expect something big next year, after this year had no new permanent overland zone in the usual sense at all.I think Mayhem used to happen around this time of year--before the chapter release. Or was it after? Eh, I don't know. I never paid much attention to it. At least the trade bars don't expire, though, or have a cap, so you can just happily stockpile them for whenever the vendor comes back with something you want.
It's strange somehow the Impresaria didn't show up now, since you can also earn trade bars in the Night Market. Though it's strangely an extremely low number; I think some bosses can sometimes drop 2 - seems totally nonsensical to me that you'd need to kill 150 bosses to get the number of trade bars that you'd get on one day during the normal events, sometimes even by just killing one boss or even by just eating cake once a day! It made me wonder if it's a mistake or bug, or if the average player is actually supposed to kill that many bosses a day - which would feel completely off to me, or how many hours a day is one supposed to play this game?I don't know what the exchange rate for points to gold will be, but it's unlikely to be significant enough to make chasing points worthwhile. I'm on page 7 on one account, and page 8 on another. I've not been playing a whole lot lately. It still remains to be seen whether or not I finish off the pages. If I was desperate to do so, I have tome point caches, but I'd have to be really desperate to open one of those.
I just find it weird that there was no clear announcement of the conversation rate yet. I'd think it's a topic people would care to know about. And some people already seem to have unlocked the last page now, so they're in the situation now to decide if they still want to do more chores or not.
As for the question if gold would be worth the grind... For some very easy tasks perhaps, or if it's really something one does anyway (like picking up some treasure chests or doing event quests when the next event starts), but other than that - I don't think so. Those chores take so long, one would probably get more gold in the same amount of time by just going on a stealing spree.When I first started playing the game, I was mystified at how often town npcs got murdered. At that time, I didn't know about the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood content that encourages such play. And though technically Thieves Guild sends you to steal, not kill, I've noticed that people often kill the npcs after stealing from them. Anyway, at first I found it a bit shocking, but that was just me being a standard rpg player.
Game mechanics. They refill/respawn faster if murdered, and many players seem to care for that more than they care for immersion or roleplaying aspects. And while they can play the game any way they like, of course, it's sometimes really not a nice experience for the more immersion-focused players (I also don't like towns full of murdered npcs much - even less so when I started playing this game and wasn't used to everyone respawning endlessly yet). Well, it's another downside of playing an MMO that one needs to live with.I go out of my way to not kill the animals on the landscape. I wish they were all non-hostile--you know, the yellow-named mobs--because I find it quite ridiculous that every animal in Nirn is so extremely aggressive. Must be something in the water.
In a way it's an rpg trope. Also the need for enemy variety for wilderness zones - can't just be bandit type a, b and c all the time. It doesn't have much to do with reality.
I also try to avoid killing wild animals in ESO most of the time; especially if they nowhere close to cities it just makes me wonder why I would even want to disturb them while they do whatever they're doing. They pose no danger to anyone there, far away in the wilderness, and if my character is no hunter, I don't know why I should kill them for meat or pelts either. I think it's a pity I sometimes need to kill them because they are placed right next to some crafting survey spot and attack when I try to harvest the nodes.It's actually a bit off-putting to play a Breton through Betnikh, at least for me, especially since the over-arching story is that we're there to convince this tribe of Orcs to join the Daggerfall Covenant. So we have to solve all their island problems for them first, and of course the island problems are Worm Cult related, and then they'll lend their might (?) to the Covenant. But as far as showcasing the life and times of a tribe of colonizing Orcs, the quests are fine--there's nothing wrong with the narrative other than assuming my character has zero problem with helping this tribe that destroyed the previous Breton inhabitants of the island.
I think the game should give different dialogue options so the player can individually decide what stance their character has on events, including events of the past.
But automatically assuming that a character must still feel hatred for that happened centuries ago (and when trade relations between the former enemies have already been established for a longer time) doesn't seem logical either. If people would never recognize war atrocities that happened decades or even centuries ago as being a thing of the past, which were horrible crimes but can't be changed anymore, then the whole world would forever remain in permanent war, with no chance for peace at all. I don't want to get too deep into real-world comparisons as they might not be welcome here, I don't know, but I want to mention this, because it's a rather positive example: When the EU was founded in 1993, the Second World War (with 70 million people dead, war crimes, shifting country borders, displacement, forced labor, etc - and there was no family who was not affected by this) had been over for less than 50 years. There were even precursors of the EU already in the 1950's, but I can say that in the late 1990's, especially among younger people, there was no thinking of each other as former enemies anymore at all. It's just how things were, and the most important thing is to make sure nothing like that ever happens again. And a stable and reliable alliance is exactly one way to achieve that.
Also, I'm curious now: Would "colonizing" be the correct term in English for one singular nomadic(?) orc tribe occupying a foreign kingdom's island? A colony, at least, is defined as being a remote settlement belonging to some bigger empire, which is hardly the case when we're talking about one single tribe that has no lands anywhere else.It's the sameness of these quests that bother me, not that they're humorous or light-hearted. These npcs will never grow or change or anything. And I don't even mean that they have to become "better people." There just isn't any depth to them, and their initial character traits are the sum total of who they are. It's like they've been cursed to play out the same story on a loop wherever they go, the only changes being in the minor details of the quest. However, I'm aware that plenty of people do enjoy these characters and quests and wouldn't want them changed up. I guess it's just another case of different people like different things.
I'm not sure if character development would make it much better in these cases. I just think that some characters are generally over-used in ESO and could get a little bit less screen time. I'm also sure there are many more light-hearted stories that could be written with completely different characters and backgrounds instead of needing to rely on the same (Rigurt, Stibbons, Dren) all the time.Considering the priest only did a deal with Molag Bal in a desperate bid to save his village from the raiding Nords, it would be strange if he had planned out a ritual. The way it was presented was this: Nords attacked (no reason given); wife led the defense of the town (being the captain of the guard); husband priest stayed at home and prayed to Stendarr for help (no details on how long the attack was going on or how long he'd been praying); wife entered home to check on husband and found him talking to Molag Bal, sealing the hasty deal. It doesn't seem like he had time to perform a ritual, and since everyone in the town, both villagers and ransacking Nords alike, is now cursed with undead existence, forever living out that last day, my question remains the same: can one's soul be bargained away from them that easily?
The bigger question to me is: Why would a random person choose Molag Bal to bargain with? Would one randomly get that idea, especially if one had never anything to do with daedra worship before?
Edited by Syldras on 9 May 2026 15:33@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0
