Need zero tolerance anti-cheat/exploit enforcement in PVP

BXR_Lonestar · February 17

PVP right now is in its worst state it has been in in a very long time due to all the bugs, exploits, and cheating that is going on. From players leaping into castles, ressing allies through walls, intentionally using glitched/bugged abilities or ability combinations to gain an advantage. I'm not going to go into detail about the specifics of these issues as Zos has acknowledged that many of these things are an issue. The problem, though, is two-fold:

1) If you know an ability is glitched and is problematic in PVP, it needs to be disabled immediately until you find a fix for it. And

2) You need to announce that proof of use of said exploits will result in a permanent and unappealable ban so that there is a severe disincentive to using those exploits.

I'm in a couple of PVP guilds, and we love the fights - especially when we're fighting against the odds in outnumbered fights. But lately, all that means is that we're facing 20+ shield-tosses to bug us out, and then we get ulti-dumped and have to eat all the damage. It's just not fun to play anymore, and as a result, we're playing ESO far less than we ordinarily would. If that's what the Dev's want, then mission accomplished, but if not, then they need to fix how they handle various cheats, bugs, and exploits - now, and in the future, for the health of the game.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 18

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

1) If you know an ability is glitched and is problematic in PVP, it needs to be disabled immediately until you find a fix for it. And

2) You need to announce that proof of use of said exploits will result in a permanent and unappealable ban so that there is a severe disincentive to using those exploits.

1. I get the sense that disabling abilities isn’t as easy as it seems. Doing so would probably screw something up massively in whatever spaghetti code is holding this game together.

2. Part of the problem here is that it may be hard to tell what’s an exploit and what’s a bug. Did that Templar end up in the wall due to an exploit or because Warden charm put him there? Is that person exploiting on purpose, or did ZoS mess something up to where this exploit exists and no one knows it exists?

But the big issue is that, in the grand scheme of things, solid proof of exploits is hard to get. And when you do get it? Good luck explaining it to the AI moderators.

BXR_Lonestar · February 18

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

1) If you know an ability is glitched and is problematic in PVP, it needs to be disabled immediately until you find a fix for it. And

2) You need to announce that proof of use of said exploits will result in a permanent and unappealable ban so that there is a severe disincentive to using those exploits.

1. I get the sense that disabling abilities isn’t as easy as it seems. Doing so would probably screw something up massively in whatever spaghetti code is holding this game together.

2. Part of the problem here is that it may be hard to tell what’s an exploit and what’s a bug. Did that Templar end up in the wall due to an exploit or because Warden charm put him there? Is that person exploiting on purpose, or did ZoS mess something up to where this exploit exists and no one knows it exists?

But the big issue is that, in the grand scheme of things, solid proof of exploits is hard to get. And when you do get it? Good luck explaining it to the AI moderators.

My biggest issue is #2. They are aware that certain skills, or specifically, script combos are an issue. I'm actually not talking about charm here, but I'd rather speak in generalities because I think the principal is universal. When they know something is an issue and they don't take disciplinary action to deter people from using an exploit or to take advantage of a skill that is glitched, then people automatically go and equip that skill or make a build so they can make use of that skill because even if it only glitches or bugs out every 4th cast - it still gives them an advantage. PVP is all about trying to leverage an advantage that you can use over your opponent, and when that advantage comes via a glitched skill or ability, then something should be done to deter its use.

Right now, my Ire is actually on shield toss because there is a glitch that can cause you to desync and be stuck in stunlock where you can't break free no matter what. There is a reason in PVP you see so many people now using that skill - because people KNOW if you cast it enough times you will have your opponent in a position where they can do NOTHING for an extended duration. Even if it only happens 1 out of every 10 casts, if you have 5-10 of these things being thrown around, its bound to cause an issue for one or more people, and that is exactly what we are seeing right now (or at least what I'm seeing).

If you can't disable shield toss, then it would be simple to announce that shield toss is glitched (they don't even need to give the script combo), and so for the time being, it is a banned skill in PVP, and from that point forward from the announcement, anyone caught using it in PVP will be permanently banned from the game. Put the announcement on the login screen so nobody can miss it. And then enforce it. And once you do, then these kinds of things won't be an issue.

I'd still prefer they just disable the skill, but they really need to do something about people exploiting known glitched skills because if they don't, their proliferation makes the PVP environment miserable and that is going to (and actually is) causing people to dial back with how much they play this game.

albertberku · February 18

If you are going to disable glitched abilities and ban people for exploiting glitched abilities, there will be no abilities and no players left. Whole ESO PvP scene is about who exploits broken abilities better. Popular examples directly coming to mind are Templar spear stun, knockbacks, shield throw stun, DK leap, DK pull, Warden charm with immovable at the beginning, speed cap builds, bash builds, animation cancelling, and that one thing (is it a proc set?) where they jump on you and there is an AoE zone appearing under you, in the meantime they are just spamming any kind of pulls, gap closers, immovable abilities, charms, where it becomes so chaotic you dont know if you need to dodge or break free or block or shield.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 18

albertberku wrote: »

If you are going to disable glitched abilities and ban people for exploiting glitched abilities, there will be no abilities and no players left. Whole ESO PvP scene is about who exploits broken abilities better. Popular examples directly coming to mind are Templar spear stun, knockbacks, shield throw stun, DK leap, DK pull, Warden charm with immovable at the beginning, speed cap builds, bash builds, animation cancelling, and that one thing (is it a proc set?) where they jump on you and there is an AoE zone appearing under you, in the meantime they are just spamming any kind of pulls, gap closers, immovable abilities, charms, where it becomes so chaotic you dont know if you need to dodge or break free or block or shield.

Except more than half of your examples aren’t exploits or glitches. They’re just regular gameplay at high level. There’s nothing broken to exploit about bash builds or animation canceling.

albertberku · February 18

Animation cancelling itself is literally a glitch allright. And bash build, it is a joke the fact that it actually exists. 0.25 sec button smashing build. I dont see any high level or gameplay in them. High level gameplay: Good positioning and awareness, choosing correct abilities at the right time.

But this thread is about other broken stuff like leaps, stuns and pulls. There is a difference between high level gameplay and people abusing broken stuff and being good at simply abusing due to how often they do it. Like when a pull takes 3 secs and a spear breakfree 2 secs, you exactly know why they are preferred. Same with warden charm. The problem is at this point it is a part of ESO PvP, abusing glitches, and trying to get better at it.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 19

albertberku wrote: »

Animation cancelling itself is literally a glitch allright. And bash build, it is a joke the fact that it actually exists. 0.25 sec button smashing build. I dont see any high level or gameplay in them. High level gameplay: Good positioning and awareness, choosing correct abilities at the right time.

But this thread is about other broken stuff like leaps, stuns and pulls. There is a difference between high level gameplay and people abusing broken stuff and being good at simply abusing due to how often they do it. Like when a pull takes 3 secs and a spear breakfree 2 secs, you exactly know why they are preferred. Same with warden charm. The problem is at this point it is a part of ESO PvP, abusing glitches, and trying to get better at it.

Animation canceling isn’t a glitch. One of the tips on the loading screens literally tells you to do it. The devs have acknowledged that it exists and that they purposefully kept it in the game.

As for bash builds…I mean, come on. If you’re still getting easily killed by bash builds in 2026, that’s pretty much a skill issue.

Every MMO has stuns, pulls, and gap closers. And frankly, they’re especially necessary in this game where you can have damn near 200% movement speed and teleports. That’s not a glitch or an exploit at all. Now CC immunity needs some work, and Warden charm is rough sometimes. But I’d rather have dynamic gameplay that allows me to make opening in my opponents’ defense than to have to wail away on a turtle and hope his friends don’t come around.

albertberku · February 19

Ok, getting in a loop here with animation cancelling and bash build discussions. But about the stuns, it is not the existence of stuns. As said, it is just that some of them are broken, like leap for example or pull. They simply disable you longer than intended. There are so many glitchy abilities and by ESO PvP community it is glorified when players are better at abusing them.

BXR_Lonestar · February 19

albertberku wrote: »

If you are going to disable glitched abilities and ban people for exploiting glitched abilities, there will be no abilities and no players left. Whole ESO PvP scene is about who exploits broken abilities better. Popular examples directly coming to mind are Templar spear stun, knockbacks, shield throw stun, DK leap, DK pull, Warden charm with immovable at the beginning, speed cap builds, bash builds, animation cancelling, and that one thing (is it a proc set?) where they jump on you and there is an AoE zone appearing under you, in the meantime they are just spamming any kind of pulls, gap closers, immovable abilities, charms, where it becomes so chaotic you dont know if you need to dodge or break free or block or shield.

I don't think that is the case. Many of the skills you are referencing are working as intended, but may be overperforming (charm). Spear is supposed to stun - it says it right on the skill that it is unblockable and causes stuns.

What I'm talking about here is purposefully using a skill like shield throw, in which it has a KNOWN glitch (known to the devs and to the playerbase) that causes you to desync and be permanently stunlocked where you can literally do NOTHING against it. Break free doesn't work. Roll dodging doesn't work. This isn't an ability performing as it is supposed to, its an ability that is bugged, glitched, whatever you have to say where it is doing things it WASN'T intended to do which is entirely different.

And because the dev's response has been "we're aware of the issue" but there is no substantive action, everybody and their dog are using the glitched shield throw ability in PVP and it is getting to where PVP is just not fun to play. I pop in there and see 20 shield tosses coming my way and I'm instantly done and can't enjoy the game I've enjoyed playing the last 7 years.

The new devs seem to be listening to the player base but listening alone is not enough. Some kind of action to try to deter this kind of known exploitation of glitches (if they are not going to take immediate action to disable the skill while they work on a fix) is needed to control these kinds of issues. If not, players see that nothing is being done and then they all pile on to use the latest glitch/exploit and it is really ruining the game.

ec250 · February 19

Easy fix - disable all addons in Cyro, will fix a majority of the issues out there and eliminate the "immortal" players. If you don't think that some of those people are using the Addon/API opening to manipulate gameplay, then you are either one of them or blissfully oblivious.

Rohamad_Ali · February 19

I wonder if it would be possible for people with these concerns to get their own add-on free cyrodiil zone.

albertberku · February 19

Arent the half of the cc skills bugged though? Shield throw is buggy that is true, but what about dk leap, dk pull and spear stun and some proc sets, as well? Spear is suppose to stun yes but its stun is not as clear as stun from streak. From streak you can breakfree consistently almost all the time. I am giving streak as an example here, there are some other perfectly functional stuns, as well.

But on the other hand stuns or other forms of cc that cause knockback, movement, pulls or pin down mechanics, you dont know if you are going to breakfree in 0.3 secs or 1 sec, they are very unreliable on the receiving end, and sometimes you end up spamming breakfree multiple times until it registers. I am going to add scribing skill stun from wield soul to this list as well. And the players using those bugged stuns usually try to abuse their bugged state by combining it with other skills that you could avoid with a predictable breakfree, but not with some certain buggy stuns due to their unpredictability.

There is a hidden knowledge in ESO PvP about abilities that come from experience where you simply know for example if a leap will disable your opponent long enough to make them get hit by your next 3 abilities you lined up 0.8 secs later. But you cant make the same abilities hit with a Streak instead, because it is functioning as intended. Although their stun should behave similar at the point of contact, considering they both dont have cast time and are teleport stun abilities. At this point you are exactly in the zone where you are exploring which abilities having different outcome than their intended effect, and with what you can combine it to have an unfair advantage during the gameplay.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee · February 19

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

PVP right now is in its worst state it has been in in a very long time due to all the bugs, exploits, and cheating that is going on. From players leaping into castles, ressing allies through walls, intentionally using glitched/bugged abilities or ability combinations to gain an advantage. I'm not going to go into detail about the specifics of these issues as Zos has acknowledged that many of these things are an issue. The problem, though, is two-fold:

1) If you know an ability is glitched and is problematic in PVP, it needs to be disabled immediately until you find a fix for it. And

2) You need to announce that proof of use of said exploits will result in a permanent and unappealable ban so that there is a severe disincentive to using those exploits.

I'm in a couple of PVP guilds, and we love the fights - especially when we're fighting against the odds in outnumbered fights. But lately, all that means is that we're facing 20+ shield-tosses to bug us out, and then we get ulti-dumped and have to eat all the damage. It's just not fun to play anymore, and as a result, we're playing ESO far less than we ordinarily would. If that's what the Dev's want, then mission accomplished, but if not, then they need to fix how they handle various cheats, bugs, and exploits - now, and in the future, for the health of the game.

I completely understand the frustration with the current state of PvP, and I agree that bugs and broken interactions are damaging the experience. Where I disagree is with the idea that players should be permanently banned for using combat abilities that are bugged due to ZOS’s own implementation. If the studio introduces an exploit through poor QA, rushed patches, or straight-up incompetence in testing and balance, that is ultimately on them. That’s fundamentally different from someone using third-party software or manipulating the game externally. One is a developer-side failure inside the live client; the other is deliberate cheating outside the intended systems. Those should not be treated the same.

A large portion of the player base likely doesn’t even realize when they’re triggering something unintended. Not every exploit is obvious. Many builds revolve around proc stacking, set interactions, or synergy mechanics that players assume are functioning as designed. When ZOS repeatedly releases content that breaks PvP and fails to properly communicate what is and isn’t intended, you cannot reasonably expect the average player to self-police every interaction. ZOS themselves have historically avoided mass bans for combat-skill exploits precisely because determining intent at scale is nearly impossible. You would inevitably end up banning players who had no idea they were abusing a bug, which would only compound the damage caused by the studio’s own incompetence.

The clean solution has always been simple: if a set or ability is clearly broken in PvP, disable it until it’s fixed. Many competitive games do this as standard practice to preserve integrity. Instead, ZOS often leaves these interactions live for weeks or months. When something exists in the game, is widely used, carries no meaningful consequences, and isn’t disabled, it effectively becomes part of the meta whether intended or not. That is not the players normalizing bad behavior — it is the studio normalizing instability through inaction.

In that environment, competitive players adapt to what is functionally allowed, not what is theoretically punishable but never enforced. If an interaction is being used against you with no consequences and the developer shows no willingness or competence in addressing it quickly, players will treat it as part of the rule set. That doesn’t mean it’s healthy for PvP, but it does mean the responsibility sits squarely with ZOS to fix the systems they shipped broken.

This is completely separate from actual cheating involving third-party tools, stat manipulation, or external software. That should absolutely be zero tolerance. But developer-created combat exploits are a systemic issue born from repeated design and QA failures. The answer to systemic incompetence is systemic correction — disable, patch, communicate clearly — not blanket permanent bans on players operating within the tools the game itself provides.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · February 19

ec250 wrote: »

Easy fix - disable all addons in Cyro, will fix a majority of the issues out there and eliminate the "immortal" players. If you don't think that some of those people are using the Addon/API opening to manipulate gameplay, then you are either one of them or blissfully oblivious.

It would actually be interesting to run a test similar to vengeance where all API calls are blocked (i.e. blocked addons) and no other changes. I wonder how much they contribute to the issues we see.

YandereGirlfriend · February 19

ec250 wrote: »

Easy fix - disable all addons in Cyro, will fix a majority of the issues out there and eliminate the "immortal" players. If you don't think that some of those people are using the Addon/API opening to manipulate gameplay, then you are either one of them or blissfully oblivious.

Would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see all add-ons banned in PvP formats.

Let's see who is actually good at the game.

BXR_Lonestar · February 20

@TheAwesomeChimpanzee

The clean solution has always been simple: if a set or ability is clearly broken in PvP, disable it until it’s fixed. Many competitive games do this as standard practice to preserve integrity. Instead, ZOS often leaves these interactions live for weeks or months. When something exists in the game, is widely used, carries no meaningful consequences, and isn’t disabled, it effectively becomes part of the meta whether intended or not. That is not the players normalizing bad behavior — it is the studio normalizing instability through inaction.

This is REALLY what I want here. I would rather see this happen - and happen EARLY in the process as soon as they have video evidence that something could be an issue - until they find a fix for it.

A large portion of the player base likely doesn’t even realize when they’re triggering something unintended. Not every exploit is obvious.

This is where I disagree. Maybe at first, players don't realize its triggering something unintended, but once word gets around about the ability, and zero enforcement (or disabling of the skill) follows, then you get massive waves of players INTENTIONALLY using these abilities PRECISELY because they intend to trigger something unintended - desync, permanent stun, etc. That is why you see so many shield throwers right now. That is why you see so many charmers right now. If nothing is done early in the process, people immediately flee to use something that they believe is going to give them an edge - That is how the PVP world is after all! You want to gain advantages on your opponent.

Which again, is why disabling problematic skills until they have a fix is what really needs to be done. But if they aren't going to disable them, then I think the fairest alternative is for them to make the public announcement (as soon as you log in to the game) that these skills are bugged and if you are caught using them you will be banned. Maybe not a permanent ban unless you have other strikes, but definitely something that will strongly discourage people from intentionally using these abilities to gain an advantage.

I just can't think of any other way to curb the toxicity that is PVP right now.

BXR_Lonestar · February 20

ec250 wrote: »

Easy fix - disable all addons in Cyro, will fix a majority of the issues out there and eliminate the "immortal" players. If you don't think that some of those people are using the Addon/API opening to manipulate gameplay, then you are either one of them or blissfully oblivious.

I think the add ons are part of some of the cheats/bugs/exploits I'm aware of, but they aren't the issue for everything. Scribing is also a strong contributing factor. And perhaps that should also be disabled for PVP.

thesarahandcompany · February 20

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

ec250 wrote: »

Easy fix - disable all addons in Cyro, will fix a majority of the issues out there and eliminate the "immortal" players. If you don't think that some of those people are using the Addon/API opening to manipulate gameplay, then you are either one of them or blissfully oblivious.

I think the add ons are part of some of the cheats/bugs/exploits I'm aware of, but they aren't the issue for everything. Scribing is also a strong contributing factor. And perhaps that should also be disabled for PVP.

Let's disable the guild lines too. Those skills are so cheesey. And ultimates. You shouldn't need an ultimate to kill someone. And you know what, disable mounting too. Running and fast travel? Cheesey. Potions? Get rid of 'em. Who needs sustain, if you land your combo right you shouldn't need sustain.

Telel · February 20

I'd love to see Cyrodiil finally get some kind of live moderation for once in its existence. Just catching zone trolls, and stalkers would be a HUGE win for everyone who wants to PVP. Quickly spotting the score boosters would also do a great deal for promoting good sportsmanship and make people less despondent about being on 'the wrong' team.

Removing all the AFK bots who keep teams from getting low pop would be another huge win. Especially as it'd help cut down on longer queues. Or at least make sure they form later in the day. My PUG literally ran across a player AFKing out in the open the other day. Just, running in circles, and never responded. So we doubled back a bit later and took them out.

Catching cheaters would be nice as well. But I think the above two issues are more doable. At least in the short term.

Reverb · February 20

thesarahandcompany wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

ec250 wrote: »

Easy fix - disable all addons in Cyro, will fix a majority of the issues out there and eliminate the "immortal" players. If you don't think that some of those people are using the Addon/API opening to manipulate gameplay, then you are either one of them or blissfully oblivious.

I think the add ons are part of some of the cheats/bugs/exploits I'm aware of, but they aren't the issue for everything. Scribing is also a strong contributing factor. And perhaps that should also be disabled for PVP.

Let's disable the guild lines too. Those skills are so cheesey. And ultimates. You shouldn't need an ultimate to kill someone. And you know what, disable mounting too. Running and fast travel? Cheesey. Potions? Get rid of 'em. Who needs sustain, if you land your combo right you shouldn't need sustain.

Naked, unarmed slap fights only. Maybe ground oils too.

Oblivion_Protocol · February 21

Telel wrote: »

I'd love to see Cyrodiil finally get some kind of live moderation for once in its existence. Just catching zone trolls, and stalkers would be a HUGE win for everyone who wants to PVP. Quickly spotting the score boosters would also do a great deal for promoting good sportsmanship and make people less despondent about being on 'the wrong' team.

Removing all the AFK bots who keep teams from getting low pop would be another huge win. Especially as it'd help cut down on longer queues. Or at least make sure they form later in the day. My PUG literally ran across a player AFKing out in the open the other day. Just, running in circles, and never responded. So we doubled back a bit later and took them out.

Catching cheaters would be nice as well. But I think the above two issues are more doable. At least in the short term.

AFK players aren’t always malicious. Sometimes people get bored waiting for things to happen, but don’t want to leave due to a long queue to get back in.

Aside from that, the game had live moderation for a long time before it got removed. But there was a dev live stream last year where they went into Cyrodiil for everyone to see, and they found absolutely nothing wrong with it. So what good would live moderation do when the devs publicly look at Cyro and say before God and everyone, “No problems detected!”