Stop exponential leveling NOW!

Ashigaru · May 2014

Phoenix99 wrote: »

My suggestion is to make a VR leveled campaigns and non-VR leveled ones. Simple fix to all that jazz

We will probably see that. Thats what they did in camelot.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · May 2014

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO wrote: »

As a vr5 nightblade I killed 8 people (sub 50) at once. There should be no benefit to being higher level other than you can equip better gear as much as I liked doing that it was not right, they should have had my number. Levels should NEVER EVER NEVER EVER equal win! Put it together, implement it, figure it out, etc.

Um nothing will ever be equal in pvp. You need to stop crying about it.

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

The cap for a player in Cyrodil is only 50, so they should just make everyone vr10 or what ever new caps there will be to make it even other then your unlocked abilities, passives, and gear.

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

Veteran difference is out of control right now, OP is right.

Having gear and level be the deciding factor in fights is BORING.

Phoenix99 · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

Is this a joke?

I mean, I prefer MMOs where gear = / = win, but I've never heard of levels not mattering at all.

If you want to compete, put the time into your character.

well that's why the MMOs can never be considered "competitive", but that's another story, which also explains why only bads and rejects from other PvP games think that it's ok from the gameplay balance point of view.

As for the topic at hand, I still think that making the division into non-VR campaigns (with lower rewards, more like practice ground + fun) and All levels campaigns (so you make the educated choice that you will be competing against players which probably have much better gear and higher levels) with the higher rewards would be ok... basically, just create a couple of servers with non-VR option and let it be tested. I am quite sure you will see more non-VR people playing there because it will be more leveled playing ground = more fun for those that are lower levels and usually are food when met with VR ranked players. The guilds could still play together in the "all levels" campaigns if they chose to, but it would be an educated choice for those people.

Milanna · May 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

My suggestion is to make a VR leveled campaigns and non-VR leveled ones. Simple fix to all that jazz

Considering VR2+ vs. VR1 basically gives just this side of nothing but slightly increased stat caps and a very small number of sets that require VR6 but aren't generally used anyway, and some weapon damage stat... yeah, I'd say their problem of getting killed wasn't caused by the game. Please learn what you're talking about before making radical demands like this which would do nothing but hurt the game by lessening the population of the campaigns.

In fact, the other side of the coin is that population on campaigns might even rise, due to the fact that players not veteran ranked might visit them more, not having to deal with constantly getting slaughtered by veterans. And it might lead to players learning how to pvp by fighting on more even terms.

After all, being one shotted in the back doesn´t really teach you that much does it?

And before you throw a hissy fit, breathe.

XILoKoIX · May 2014

learn to play, i could kill plenty of people before i ever hit VR.

you're acting spoiled believing that newbie == elite mob. stop crying and jump on a seige.

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

Milanna wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

My suggestion is to make a VR leveled campaigns and non-VR leveled ones. Simple fix to all that jazz

Considering VR2+ vs. VR1 basically gives just this side of nothing but slightly increased stat caps and a very small number of sets that require VR6 but aren't generally used anyway, and some weapon damage stat... yeah, I'd say their problem of getting killed wasn't caused by the game. Please learn what you're talking about before making radical demands like this which would do nothing but hurt the game by lessening the population of the campaigns.

In fact, the other side of the coin is that population on campaigns might even rise, due to the fact that players not veteran ranked might visit them more, not having to deal with constantly getting slaughtered by veterans. And it might lead to players learning how to pvp by fighting on more even terms.

After all, being one shotted in the back doesn´t really teach you that much does it?

And before you throw a hissy fit, breathe.

This exactly.

PvP is a ghost town on the majority of servers because no one wants to play unless they're VR, since the scaling is so screwed up that VR vs. non-VR is always an instakill.

Of course the bads that don't actually play real PvP games will say it's fine, that they should have an I-win button for being higher level, and that level and gear should determine fights, not player skill.

But that makes for a boring, no-skill ghost town, which is what Cyrodiil is rapidly becoming.

Thechemicals · May 2014

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO wrote: »

As a vr5 nightblade I killed 8 people (sub 50) at once. There should be no benefit to being higher level other than you can equip better gear as much as I liked doing that it was not right, they should have had my number. Levels should NEVER EVER NEVER EVER equal win! Put it together, implement it, figure it out, etc.

I killed a VR3 NB 1v1 who sneak attacked me first, with my level 45 Templar.... so yeah...maybe it was 8 level 20's

joshisanonymous · May 2014

This whole argument might make sense if PvP was the only way to achieve higher levels. What I mean is, the existence of VR players that can easily run through pre-50 players doesn't stop pre-50 players from reaching veteran ranks. The whole thing becomes moot once the majority of PvPers reach VR10 (or 12 now I guess). You're basically arguing about a problem that only exists in the very early stages of any MMO that has both levels and PvP.

For those pre-50 that want to join in, they can do so in numbers. It's pretty easy to survive against VR players when you're in a zerg, even at level 10. For those who are particularly skilled, they might even be able to compete against some VR players one-on-one, as people have claimed to do. It's not like you're 100% useless before reaching VRs, you just can't expect to take a keep solo or compete against a skilled VR10, which is how it should be. A VR5 taking out 8 low level players is probably a combination of their inexperience with ESO PvP combined with their inferior stats/gear/passives/abilities.

TL;DR Everyone in PvP will be VR12 in a couple months so who cares?

wayfarerb14_ESO · May 2014

Dude, I have totally seen a level 17 take on a vr 10 1v1 and almost win. The vr 10 had to call for backups. It's all about skill. Those low levels you killed will learn from experience and will be able to take on vets eventually.

Jeremy · May 2014

joshisanonymous wrote: »

This whole argument might make sense if PvP was the only way to achieve higher levels. What I mean is, the existence of VR players that can easily run through pre-50 players doesn't stop pre-50 players from reaching veteran ranks. The whole thing becomes moot once the majority of PvPers reach VR10 (or 12 now I guess). You're basically arguing about a problem that only exists in the very early stages of any MMO that has both levels and PvP.

For those pre-50 that want to join in, they can do so in numbers. It's pretty easy to survive against VR players when you're in a zerg, even at level 10. For those who are particularly skilled, they might even be able to compete against some VR players one-on-one, as people have claimed to do. It's not like you're 100% useless before reaching VRs, you just can't expect to take a keep solo or compete against a skilled VR10, which is how it should be. A VR5 taking out 8 low level players is probably a combination of their inexperience with ESO PvP combined with their inferior stats/gear/passives/abilities.

TL;DR Everyone in PvP will be VR12 in a couple months so who cares?

This is how I feel about it too. As more players level up and achieve veteran status this will be a non-issue. Besides, I think Cyrodiil was designed to be more of an endgame activity anyway.

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO · May 2014

An instant solution would be equalize people, make everyone be kinda stuck at lvl 50 (regardless of level 1-v10) and let organization and even numbers stand out first (not just levels).

Kililin · May 2014

lol i love it.
in the other threads: just stop and enjoy the game, no need to be VR10 so fast.
ITT, and others: Y U make VR10 strong?
Quite funny.

VR are not AA, they are not sideways progression, they are not even Realm Ranks.
They are levels 50-150, accept it.
In no level based game i am aware of you can go to open pvp with 1/3rd of max Level and expect to stand any chance vs. leveled Players.

Nidwin · May 2014

Jeremy wrote: »

joshisanonymous wrote: »

TL;DR Everyone in PvP will be VR12 in a couple months so who cares?

This is how I feel about it too. As more players level up and achieve veteran status this will be a non-issue. Besides, I think Cyrodiil was designed to be more of an endgame activity anyway.

That's actually the main issue, all of us being VR12, stuffed and with 200+ skills points spent, in a couple of months on our mains.

People come and go in every MMORPG. This means that we'll need new players at some point. I'm not convinced we're going to attract a lot of peeps in AvA and keep them with us 1-shotting them.

kellemdros · May 2014

They should adjust the boost to the low levels... i mean, around 8 (for say a number) low levels must win a vr10... now is 8 one shoots.... thats too much...

Soz for my english

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO · May 2014

The only problem with people between 10-49 is that they get bolstered. This bolster adds exactly the same subpar stats to everyone. Further more they are very weak, comparable with a lvl 35 gear set at best. How is that a problem?

Well, lets say you are a magika build, all you get is stats distributed between magika and stamina...wont do much damage with your magika based skills...
You have a self buff for spell/physical resistance? Use it and it will do NOTHING. The bolster is in place, you will have exactly the same resists. This also applies to getting debuffed by enemies but doesnt really matter if you do not loose more resists from an olready low resist pool, it just wont make up for the gympness of the bolster.

Solutions?
1. Fix the bolster so it scales with lets say, lvl 50 white gear (the traits, armour value, enchants) and keep the set bonuses.
2. Alternative would be to disable the bolster altogether, since lvl 30 the bolster only gimped my toon, i was alot more powerful withouth it...or at least let the player choose if they want to use the bolster or not...forcing them into being weaker then they actualy are is plain stupid.

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO · May 2014

SourceError wrote: »

I'm sure he killed 8 people looking for skyshards because they don't actually PvP.

Anyways, once the crybabies get their way and veterans are no longer in the same campaigns, the new flood of bad players will complain about the level 45-49 lifers. Welcome to the old republic.

Actually, they all jumped me while I was grabbing a shard.

joshisanonymous · May 2014

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

The only problem with people between 10-49 is that they get bolstered. This bolster adds exactly the same subpar stats to everyone. Further more they are very weak, comparable with a lvl 35 gear set at best. How is that a problem?

Well, lets say you are a magika build, all you get is stats distributed between magika and stamina...wont do much damage with your magika based skills...
You have a self buff for spell/physical resistance? Use it and it will do NOTHING. The bolster is in place, you will have exactly the same resists. This also applies to getting debuffed by enemies but doesnt really matter if you do not loose more resists from an olready low resist pool, it just wont make up for the gympness of the bolster.

Solutions?
1. Fix the bolster so it scales with lets say, lvl 50 white gear (the traits, armour value, enchants) and keep the set bonuses.
2. Alternative would be to disable the bolster altogether, since lvl 30 the bolster only gimped my toon, i was alot more powerful withouth it...or at least let the player choose if they want to use the bolster or not...forcing them into being weaker then they actualy are is plain stupid.

Removing bolstering all together would fix the problem better, I think. No one would then go into Cyrodiil at level 10 expecting to be able to obliterate VR10s, or even stand a chance against them. Although I prefer the bolstering system myself, it's just that it messes with people's expectations.

Jeremy · May 2014

Nidwin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

joshisanonymous wrote: »

TL;DR Everyone in PvP will be VR12 in a couple months so who cares?

This is how I feel about it too. As more players level up and achieve veteran status this will be a non-issue. Besides, I think Cyrodiil was designed to be more of an endgame activity anyway.

That's actually the main issue, all of us being VR12, stuffed and with 200+ skills points spent, in a couple of months on our mains.

People come and go in every MMORPG. This means that we'll need new players at some point. I'm not convinced we're going to attract a lot of peeps in AvA and keep them with us 1-shotting them.

I would think the advantages being a veteran brings could be an encouragement for newer players to stick around and work harder. At least that is the effect it's having on me ^^

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO · May 2014

Jeremy wrote: »

Nidwin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

joshisanonymous wrote: »

TL;DR Everyone in PvP will be VR12 in a couple months so who cares?

This is how I feel about it too. As more players level up and achieve veteran status this will be a non-issue. Besides, I think Cyrodiil was designed to be more of an endgame activity anyway.

That's actually the main issue, all of us being VR12, stuffed and with 200+ skills points spent, in a couple of months on our mains.

People come and go in every MMORPG. This means that we'll need new players at some point. I'm not convinced we're going to attract a lot of peeps in AvA and keep them with us 1-shotting them.

I would think the advantages being a veteran brings could be an encouragement for newer players to stick around and work harder. At least that is the effect it's having on me ^^

Then what's the point of PvPing before v10? I like a more even playing field. Making the level you are mean nothing (outside of extra skill points and better gear) would actually encourage people to go PvP, Steamrolling discourages PvP, It's basic psychology.

Kewljag_66_ESO · May 2014

I dont think people realize this is ment to be the PVP endgame and for the majoridy its not yet. Its mainly ment for 50+. SO in 3 to 4 months when 95% in Cyrodiil is 50+ this whole topic should not be an issue.

Being able to atleast compete for the pre 50s with the bolster is kinda just giving them a taste and gives them a reason to push them selves to level up to 50, which isnt hard if you take the time to actually level. If you do the PVE in Cyrodiil, quests, grinds, and dungeons you can have your pvp mixed or makes you watch your back which helps to make PVE not as boring.

Tannakaobi · May 2014

Censorious wrote: »

I played from lvl 10 in Cyrodill and never once felt I was at a serious disadvantage. True - you can't go face-to-face with any random guy you meet. You have to play it a bit carefully but that's to be expected.
I wouldn't say low-levels are cannon fodder - in fact, they are the infantry, the ground troops. where strength in numbers counts for everything.

I call BS! Unless you are talking about early access when there was no VR or at least hardly any. For the first couple of weeks I played on my level 10-25 rangedTemplar and had a blast in my light Armor. Since then I have done much in learning about how the combat works in ESO and am now a much better player than I was.

Two nights ago I took my 35 Nightblade in and got smashed in every other Melee I had. Even some ranged attacks were practically one shotting me. There is a massive difference between early levels and higher VR. To say otherwise is either bull and therefore trolling or a huge case of delusion.

You can call me a poor player all you like, but the simple truth is I also owned a few battles. So if that is true then there is some really bad players in there. I know what I believe.

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO · May 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

I dont think people realize this is ment to be the PVP endgame and for the majoridy its not yet. Its mainly ment for 50+. SO in 3 to 4 months when 95% in Cyrodiil is 50+ this whole topic should not be an issue.

Being able to atleast compete for the pre 50s with the bolster is kinda just giving them a taste and gives them a reason to push them selves to level up to 50, which isnt hard if you take the time to actually level. If you do the PVE in Cyrodiil, quests, grinds, and dungeons you can have your pvp mixed or makes you watch your back which helps to make PVE not as boring.

I don't think you realize that PvP is supposed to be for everyone after lvl 10. Now discouraging people from PvPing until they have hit 50+ is bad design and limits options for said players. It especially deters new players because they'll think that PvP is only for endgamers and either just go story-mode or move on to another game. Now would you rather have a ton of people on an even playing field fighting for Cyrodil or like 5% of the game's current population?

Mange · May 2014

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Censorious wrote: »

I played from lvl 10 in Cyrodill and never once felt I was at a serious disadvantage. True - you can't go face-to-face with any random guy you meet. You have to play it a bit carefully but that's to be expected.
I wouldn't say low-levels are cannon fodder - in fact, they are the infantry, the ground troops. where strength in numbers counts for everything.

I call BS! Unless you are talking about early access when there was no VR or at least hardly any. For the first couple of weeks I played on my level 10-25 rangedTemplar and had a blast in my light Armor. Since then I have done much in learning about how the combat works in ESO and am now a much better player than I was.

Two nights ago I took my 35 Nightblade in and got smashed in every other Melee I had. Even some ranged attacks were practically one shotting me. There is a massive difference between early levels and higher VR. To say otherwise is either bull and therefore trolling or a huge case of delusion.

You can call me a poor player all you like, but the simple truth is I also owned a few battles. So if that is true then there is some really bad players in there. I know what I believe.

Don't call BS cause I have always had the same experience, I have a VR10 Sorc now but I've had non VRs nearly kill me. There's been times when Soul Assault was my only saving grace and while that ultimate may be a clear advantage non VRs can't get, in general the scaling in Cyrodiil makes things as fair as they can possibly get without putting everyone at the exact same stats.

I also have a 16 NB that I geared up just for PVP and it still puts out great damage, similar DPS to my VR10 Sorc using a 2h versus my 16 NB using a Bow. Levels are just an excuse for people that get rolled or use underpowered setups, VR10s tend to have enough experience that they're using optimal builds and while skill points may help they aren't limited to levels.

Thechemicals · May 2014

Even at level 45....no one under 30 could nearly kill me.

tawok · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

Is this a joke?

I mean, I prefer MMOs where gear = / = win, but I've never heard of levels not mattering at all.

If you want to compete, put the time into your character.

Maybe if they didn't advertise Cyrodiil as the be all, end all, one stop shop for all things PVP. If it were bracketed, I'd agree. But a broad entry level-end game bracket? Why even bother before you're VR10? For anyone sub-50, Cyrodiil is a walking simulator.

Give us real PVP already, and while you're at it, why don't you follow through with your promise of us being able to "level our way"?

Diaboli · May 2014

I killed 3 vet rank 1s with a level 11 DK. A rock in the hands of a master is better than a knife in the hands of a novice. I see your point though. I just speculate that if those 8 people knew how to CC or interupt you wouldn't have steamrolled them.

Jeremy · May 2014

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Nidwin wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

joshisanonymous wrote: »

TL;DR Everyone in PvP will be VR12 in a couple months so who cares?

This is how I feel about it too. As more players level up and achieve veteran status this will be a non-issue. Besides, I think Cyrodiil was designed to be more of an endgame activity anyway.

That's actually the main issue, all of us being VR12, stuffed and with 200+ skills points spent, in a couple of months on our mains.

People come and go in every MMORPG. This means that we'll need new players at some point. I'm not convinced we're going to attract a lot of peeps in AvA and keep them with us 1-shotting them.

I would think the advantages being a veteran brings could be an encouragement for newer players to stick around and work harder. At least that is the effect it's having on me ^^

Then what's the point of PvPing before v10? I like a more even playing field. Making the level you are mean nothing (outside of extra skill points and better gear) would actually encourage people to go PvP, Steamrolling discourages PvP, It's basic psychology.

Well as you pointed out, extra skill points and better gear are pretty good incentives. There are also a lot of quests you can do that give varying and useful stuff. So I feel there are productive activities to do in Cyrodiil that don't involve killing a seasoned veteran.

But my main point was the ability to even the playing field is there. You just need to put in the time and effort. Because I think it would be pretty silly if all someone has to do is jump into Cyrodiil at level 10 or 15 (can't remember which it was) and immediately be on an even footing with more experienced players who have been working diligently training their character for months.

Jeremy · May 2014

hodgson.dylanub17_ESO wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

I dont think people realize this is ment to be the PVP endgame and for the majoridy its not yet. Its mainly ment for 50+. SO in 3 to 4 months when 95% in Cyrodiil is 50+ this whole topic should not be an issue.

Being able to atleast compete for the pre 50s with the bolster is kinda just giving them a taste and gives them a reason to push them selves to level up to 50, which isnt hard if you take the time to actually level. If you do the PVE in Cyrodiil, quests, grinds, and dungeons you can have your pvp mixed or makes you watch your back which helps to make PVE not as boring.

I don't think you realize that PvP is supposed to be for everyone after lvl 10. Now discouraging people from PvPing until they have hit 50+ is bad design and limits options for said players. It especially deters new players because they'll think that PvP is only for endgamers and either just go story-mode or move on to another game. Now would you rather have a ton of people on an even playing field fighting for Cyrodil or like 5% of the game's current population?

I don't think it's bad design.

Level 50 players need the changing and challenging environment PvP brings more so than lower-level characters who are still actively questing and exploring Tamriel. In other words: it helps give them something to do while they wait for the developers to add new content to the game.

And there is nothing wrong with benefiting from your hard work. The amount of time and effort people spend on their characters should matter and make a difference. That's at the very core of RPG design. And to take that aspect away from PvP would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

As far as your population concerns, that is a problem that will likely get better over time as more and more players reach higher ranks. And I doubt that many lower level characters would spend a majority of their time PvPing anyway since they will likely be more concentrated on leveling.