Sad about the loss of poison damage (that will kill all my poison builds).

But what I'm really confused about is the rationale for Fire element skills costing Stamina. We've had some instances of things like that before, but if this continues to be part of a larger class rework, the resources will feel completely arbitrary. That's not really conducive to immersion, IMO.

Faulgor wrote: »

Sad about the loss of poison damage (that will kill all my poison builds).

But what I'm really confused about is the rationale for Fire element skills costing Stamina. We've had some instances of things like that before, but if this continues to be part of a larger class rework, the resources will feel completely arbitrary. That's not really conducive to immersion, IMO.

I think stamina for fire skills for dragon knight seem fine, its like dragon knights draw on the dracoinic nature so its something physical stamina related, rather than a fire ball which would be magik.

Plus it seems most skills have a morph choice between stamina and magik.

axan22 wrote: »

I think stamina for fire skills for dragon knight seem fine, its like dragon knights draw on the dracoinic nature so its something physical stamina related, rather than a fire ball which would be magik.

In fact, Dragon abilities in most games related to magic, not endure (i.e., stamina).
The problems with stamina-based builds in ESO are: 1) most weapons use stamina, while most class skills use magicka; 2) stamina-based builds use the same resource for both core abilities and skills; 3) refilling stamina is harder than magicka

adamsmith42 wrote: »

Is it really necessary to rename all of the skills?

Yeah, I'm not a fan of some of these new names.

So many changes. Probably not all for the better but we will get the chance to test them out soon. Personally I don't care much that poison will be removed from the toolkit. I know there are poison dragons but fire is just more fitting, in my opinion. I could imagine nightblade getting poison instead then.
The animations that were shown look very good. I don't mind them being updatet as long as they play good and don't feel clunky.
I will defintely try out the new DK on PTS next week.

So after a little dive into the newly released toolkit on PTS i can say all you will achieve is furthering the delayed burst meta options in subclassing PvP,

most of the changes i view as positive,

shorter stronger dots, increased sustain sources, useful buffs, group utility.

One major negative i draw from this is first and foremost the draw essence / deep breath

part 1)

being on a 4 second timer,

most likely will just be used with other delayed burst sources bad for the meta when usable together,

deep fissure,
Proximity detonation,
flames of oblivion,
ulfsilds,
blastbones,
null arca,
this new bash set??? glittering road? lmao.

and now deep breath to add to the list of skills that should never work together.

elder AOE oneshots online.

Part 2)

Removal of the heal from draw essence / deep breath,

for me this is a staple skill for allowing the DK to get in the face of a larger foe and actually play that DOMINANT front line role in PvP

giving it time and space to cast skills like talons standard, make use of these shorter dot durations etc. and actually do the thing it was supposed to do. play on the front line. and change it. not die on it wishing you played something else.

I think the rework of this skill in particular is pretty negative as DKs wont really be able to use it to play the way you expect.

I guaranteed it will just be used to align it other oneshot skills from other skill lines with it and kiting around obstacles, or pushing from the back lines like a warden.

Fix?

put it on a 3 second timer,
remove second subs on deep fissure, just make other skills do damage in the warden tool kit to make warden relevant in PvE
but leave subs the hell alone its so overtuned for PvP.
same for blastbones,
or ANY other delayed burst option moving forward.

revert the heal removal on these skills. for sustain change. cool idea, but just wont do it.

in fact put as much of this stuff on a 3 second timer as possible. or 4 second timer universally. as long as it is universal.

then players arent building full tank oneshot builds anymore, cause that really needs to go. like 7 years ago.

oneshot should be risk reward, glass cannons, bombers, gankers, SQUISHY not tanky.

risk reward.

please consider this zenimax.

Regards,

LordSktuff.

Nope. I'm afraid that you didn't make it.
I understand that it is PTS and maybe I am too pessimistic after the last changes, but I'm afraid this changes won't solve anything.

1. You confuse optical consistency with class identity.
The new DK is all about flames. The firely red is present in almost every skill. Like the neon-green for the Arcanist. The playstyle actually goes further away from class identity by making his abilities more generic (a pulse, a beam, a spammer). Without his poison, the DOTs will be half as fun (literally). Dragons are more than fire. Without an efficient DPS-utlimate, people will fall back to other skill lines. Again, less DK, more generic.

2. The Solo DK won't be better than multiclass chars.
The damage probably won't be enough and the incentive to play solo-dk are to weak. I like that some skills get stronger with any DK ability instead of a specific DK-skill line, but overall playing all 3 DK-lines won't be efficient for damage dealers.

I hoped for skills (especially passive ones) that buff the damage if you are going solo-class and not a general DPS buff that will make the DK better in solo- and multi-class environments (probably).

Maybe picking one class after another isn't the best approach. The multi-class system has too many dependencies. Especially since you are using the same skills in PvP and PvE.

3. Reshuffling the skills will do more harm than good.
Right now the choice for a multiclassing line is pretty easy for DPS (Tanks are different here): It's ardent flame. It probably will remain this line but it will be less efficient. Compared to classes where you have a stricter separation of skill lines (Arcanist DPS/Heal/Tank; Nightblade DPS/Stealth/Sustain), good DPS skills can be found in two lines (3 if you count Stone Giant/Magma fist which is great in Group settings) - the choice is worse than it is today (I couldn't decide and am playing different base classes now).

b0kay wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure this has been answered yet (if it has feel free to point me towards it). Has there been a definitive stance from the team on whether they want single class builds to be better or worse than multicalssed ones?

A suggestion which I think might save a lot of time and headaches would be to simply have 3 different dmg number for class abilities which increase with each skill line slotted i.e
1000/2000/3000 dmg depending how many core lines you got equipped.

@b0kay I think there are so many changes that have been put out that at this point its a lot of data to take in. From the PvE DPS/DD side I hope they listen to skinnycheeks on suggestions since he does a lot of testing for builds. I believe ZoS did state from the start they want pure classes to be as competitive as subclassing. BUT a first glance at the reworked passives shows a heavy focus on building DK pure damage and some sustain, but less into damage mitigation and healing. Some of the ability changes will function better in PvP with the area healing/damage however my personal concern is the focus on damage to make the class compete against subclassing. I think your suggestion is good for PvE but Im sure the PvP crowd would disagree because they dont want return of the all DK Cyrodiil again. Adding that much damage done would certainly achieve pure class DPS competitiveness but in PvP the damage would spiral out of control unfortunately.