lao wrote: »

who runs stamina builds anyways? stamina is only good for 2 things. breaking CC and sprinting. that is also the problem tho. even if u made CC break cost only magicka ppl would still run magicka builds cos the stamina styles are mostly awful.

Well I agree that Magika skills are generally more powerful but I would not say staminia combat is worthless. My Bow can unload a lot of damage with snipe + follow ups. With DW alternating between Surprise Attack (mag) and flurry (stam) I do a lot of damage, especially since I have armor debuff weapon procs and Surprise Attack debuffs the targets armor by 40%

Im not using my shear magical power to dodge or break out of my bindings. Im using my muscles to do it hence stamina.

No.

This is a random and poorly thought out idea that doesn't compliment the existing combat system.

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

To be fair, stamina builds are in a terrible place right now. While I don't particularly agree with this suggestion, he's not wrong in thinking stamina builds need some love.

I think reducing the stamina cost of roll dodge, block, and CC break would be a good start.

Buffing many of the stamina skills would also be helpful.

But this particular suggestion isn't a good one.

Look at this way: If you have a stamina build then the only thing you're using magicka for is utilities, whereas magicka builds are drawing from magicka for both utilities and damage. It's a similar problem, although you can argue whether the balance is equal. To sum up:

With magicka builds

• Have a whole bar devoted to breaking CC/dodging.
• Have another bar split between damage and utility.

With stamina builds

• Have a whole bar devoted to utility.
• Have another bar split between damage and breaking CC/dodging.

I think to make a better argument you'd have to show that the split in magicka builds is not nearly as troublesome as the split in stamina builds. The current argument that you're making seems to assume that there is no mirror issue with magicka builds at all.

Mykah wrote: »

...
Also note, a NB Templar or DK can dodge roll three times to avoid damage and their done, where as a sorc can dodge roll three times AND bolt escape five times on the low end, upwards of ten times on the high end characters. The amount of damage avoidance provided by this is just uncomparible to other classes.

...

As a 5 Light/2 Medium Magicka build Nightblade I can escape from damage and combat if I expend all my resources doing so as well.
Stamina to break CC, roll dodge (I have Bow on one of my bars so that when I roll dodge I receive a brief speed buff), or flat-out-sprint; Magicka to turn invisible and activate my Stamina regeneration buff.

Sorcerors are twitchy and bolt around; however, when they are expending all of their resources trying to escape I do not expect to catch them unless I expend all of my resources to do so.
They do certainly have skills that promote a hit-and-run playstyle, though.

Samadhi wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

...
Also note, a NB Templar or DK can dodge roll three times to avoid damage and their done, where as a sorc can dodge roll three times AND bolt escape five times on the low end, upwards of ten times on the high end characters. The amount of damage avoidance provided by this is just uncomparible to other classes.

...

As a 5 Light/2 Medium Magicka build Nightblade I can escape from damage and combat if I expend all my resources doing so as well.
Stamina to break CC, roll dodge (I have Bow on one of my bars so that when I roll dodge I receive a brief speed buff), or flat-out-sprint; Magicka to turn invisible and activate my Stamina regeneration buff.

Sorcerors are twitchy and bolt around; however, when they are expending all of their resources trying to escape I do not expect to catch them unless I expend all of my resources to do so.
They do certainly have skills that promote a hit-and-run playstyle, though.

And clearly this is a problem. Hit and run tactics are not acceptable.

Game will not be balanced until bash spamming one trick ponies can bash spam everything to death.

When everyone is running an unkillable DK with Talons spam, Bash spam, ect. and no one is moving around too fast, then the game will be good.

Hurray build diversity!

Mykah wrote: »

Its funny though, DK talons and bash spam are getting fixed next patch, so their goes your weak argument.

Speaking of build variety, whens the last time you pvped without bolt escape spam? The answer is never.

Even with a 33% mana cost, a sorc could bolt escape five times in a row using set bonuses and a mana pot, and have 50% stamina left after breaking CC. This still great escape utility.

Hit and run tactics are a thing that requires tactics. Going full out DPS with your mana bar, then being able to escape untouched with only 30% of your mana remaining is not tactical, it is grossly overpowered.

You propaganda video is a clear indication of your onesided agenda.

Well ain't that cute. No sorry we did test the next patch on PTS, while it's not retardely broken as it was , shield bash is still one cut above most dps you could pull off, and dark talons nerf? not realy it's like most aoe 6 targets cap , wich is fine in most situation, so no. If a bolting sorc got 0 imunity to a shield charge, chain pull, obsidian shard /any hard or soft cc, so if he can utterly destroy you or almost and get away with it untouched you are just plain bad and should consider a motor exam, or sticking to pve when timing or awarness are not so demanding

Phoenix99 wrote: »

Or we need to change that cc break resource is applied based on the source of the skill that applied the effect. for example to get out of talons you need to spend magicka, but to get out from immobilize from 2h skill you use stamina)

Maybe, but I think that would be a nightmare for resource management.

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

Personally I think CC break should also take away an equal amount of magika.

Breaking your CC is suppose to come at a price, but a lot of classes who are mainly or purely magika based are not even effected, they still have a full bar of magika to burn on you. Now I am not aiming this at bolt escape but I do think it would help that situation because it would limit them to 1 or 2 uses. I am mainly aiming this at DK who's still have a full magika bar to engage you with buffs, CC and damage. Also Templars ( I know they are lacking) but I don't think they should be able to instantly break a sneak attack stun just to have a full bar of magika to heal them self full over and over.

Id just like to see CC break effect everyone equally and take away 50% of both resources

Bad idea. It already has a high cost. As a sorc I have crap stam so when I get hit by the CC spam from DKs in pvp you can only break/roll 2-3 times before your stam is gone. They simply need to fix DK's spammability of everything.

I agree that this is a poorly-thought-out idea that really amounts to patching over a problem rather than solving it.
This is yet another area where medium armour could excel - in fact, it already makes dodges cheaper (though I'd support going even further with it - I wouldn't object to seeing the cost reduction passive go up to 50% maximum rather than 28). The problem is, it's such an awful skill line that this advantage is outweighed by the amount of dead weight in the tree, so no-one would ever consider wearing 7 bits of medium armour even with all the passives.
If you DO stack med armour on a full-MA charaacter, then dodging turns out to be pretty cheap... but really needs to be effective against single target DPS rather than just AOE and CC. This could be managed with a single passive that grants spell immunity for like 1 second after a roll, or by replacing the dire Evasion with a toggled spell immunity effect on rolls if the passive was deemed too strong (though imo, medium needs something OP. Just anything to make people actually want to use it beyond 'it looks cool' or 'I'm a Nightblade and mistakenly thought that gearing in character would help somehow. I mostly use this character for picking flowers in lowbie areas now').

NordJitsu wrote: »

I think reducing the stamina cost of roll dodge, block, and CC break would be a good start.

Buffing many of the stamina skills would also be helpful.

But this particular suggestion isn't a good one.

Reducing the base cost for everyone would further buff Magicka builds since they get the benefit, adding the cost reduction to the stamina weapon skill passive lines would mean you have to have the weapon equipped to get the benefit.

Maverick827 wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

No.

This is a random and poorly thought out idea that doesn't compliment the existing combat system.

Read: No, I play a caster Sorc and this would nerf me. The only nerfs that should be implemented are for classes I don't play.

Or you could perhaps weigh up what the OP's suggestion entails, and realize that it's not a nerf to sorcs at all, but rather a huge f**k you to stamina builds.

Almost all sorcs are presently heavy majicka-build. The can CC break about 3 times before they're out of stamina. Adding an equal majicka cost will not hurt them, since this resource is not going to run out faster than stam will. They're gonna be recovering plenty, and they have a huge pool to start with; stam will always be their shortage resource when it comes to dodges.

Any stamina-build, however, will find that now it has gone from 5-6 CC breaks to 3 CC breaks, because no matter how much stam they have their majicka now controls whether they can break CC. You are now gimped to 3 CC breaks, because you have not specced into mana. Congrats, you have just made stamina AN EVEN WORSE CHOICE. I didn't even dare dream it was possible, and yet you have truly found a way.

So yes, this suggestion is a 'nerf' for sorcs that makes everyone else more vulnerable to their wide array of AOE abilities, while simultaneously not really effecting their ability to break CC at all. I'm totally sure that's why a sorc is rejecting it, and not because it is a simplistic guess of an answer which fails in every respect to deal with any of the problems it attempts to address while breaking a half-dozen other game mechanics in the process.