Necessary modifications ToT
AnduinTryggva
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There has to be a maximum number of agents that can be active at the same time.
When you already are at maximum number of agents and you want to play another one you have to select an agent that is then removed from the table and placed into the cooldown pile.
Reason for this modification: As soon as an opponent has a certain amount of agents active you can just concede. Psijic is far too expensive (provided it was picked at the beginning of the match) and you generally can only activate it once limiting any other action in most cases. If you are lucky you can activate it twice provided that you have sufficient gold in your hand AND the opportunity of a double patron action. Stock agent kill cards are far to rare and other patrons providing agent kill cards would have to be selected or they are so expensive that you need a lot of luck to grab it. This is why a lot of player just chose an agent spam strategy because there is NO way to prevent this.
Rhajin bewilderment card spam should come at a cost to the spammer
Re-activating Rhajin when in favoring position should have an increased cost for the patron spammer. This could be an increased gold cost or maybe a debuff, e.g. having to place a card from the hand into the cool down pile, a bit similar to almalexia
This spamming is by far too cheap and has too noxious effects on the other player. Not only does it break chains what it rightly does. It takes away one place for a gold generating card AND costs money to get rid of it.
Tank agents: Either maximum number active or a limited number of active turns
That's a bit similar to the first suggestion but takes account of the specific role and considerable power these agents have. Again this is because getting rid of agents is really really difficult.
Rhajin Pounce and Profit/Grand Larceny give too much gold
This is the single card that decides matches! It is fairly cheap 5g so it can in most cases be bought right from the start and gives an enormous advantage to the player who snatches it first. It is far too powerful. I know when my opponent has picked it before me I have lost the match. And this loss materializes almost every time. It is just too darn powerful for the comparatively ridiculous cost.
When you already are at maximum number of agents and you want to play another one you have to select an agent that is then removed from the table and placed into the cooldown pile.
Reason for this modification: As soon as an opponent has a certain amount of agents active you can just concede. Psijic is far too expensive (provided it was picked at the beginning of the match) and you generally can only activate it once limiting any other action in most cases. If you are lucky you can activate it twice provided that you have sufficient gold in your hand AND the opportunity of a double patron action. Stock agent kill cards are far to rare and other patrons providing agent kill cards would have to be selected or they are so expensive that you need a lot of luck to grab it. This is why a lot of player just chose an agent spam strategy because there is NO way to prevent this.
Rhajin bewilderment card spam should come at a cost to the spammer
Re-activating Rhajin when in favoring position should have an increased cost for the patron spammer. This could be an increased gold cost or maybe a debuff, e.g. having to place a card from the hand into the cool down pile, a bit similar to almalexia
This spamming is by far too cheap and has too noxious effects on the other player. Not only does it break chains what it rightly does. It takes away one place for a gold generating card AND costs money to get rid of it.
Tank agents: Either maximum number active or a limited number of active turns
That's a bit similar to the first suggestion but takes account of the specific role and considerable power these agents have. Again this is because getting rid of agents is really really difficult.
Rhajin Pounce and Profit/Grand Larceny give too much gold
This is the single card that decides matches! It is fairly cheap 5g so it can in most cases be bought right from the start and gives an enormous advantage to the player who snatches it first. It is far too powerful. I know when my opponent has picked it before me I have lost the match. And this loss materializes almost every time. It is just too darn powerful for the comparatively ridiculous cost.
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vuwuv✭✭I totally agree about Rajhin deck:
- Pounce should cost 6, it gives great economy and allows snowballing Raj deck
- Patron costs should be 1/3/5 to reduce spam
As for agents, there is no adequate fix for your problem. I play with Celarus in the game almost 100% matches, so it rarely bothers me. If an opponent turns out to have tons of them, you do something wrong (or just unlucky, but it describes other cases too, not only agent wall).0 -
vuwuv✭✭Also don't forget Alessia - another abusable patron that needs cost modification. If someone starts spamming it, you just don't have enough coins to turn the patron back and buy cards from the tavern. You can't create writs either cause only one patron use per turn.
But adjusting patron costs to 1/4/5 should ease the situation.0 -
Altera0x✭✭Also don't forget Alessia - another abusable patron that needs cost modification. If someone starts spamming it, you just don't have enough coins to turn the patron back and buy cards from the tavern.
I'm not a pro or anything, but in my experience, Alessia spam absolutely crumbles against Pelin. Early power cards make it easy to clear the board and continue to develop your deck, while the spammer clutters his deck with pretty mediocre cards. I rarely see people pick Alessia, but if they do I mostly ignore the patron and concentrate on not letting them hold anything on the table. Alessia's deck itself has an assortment of cards for that.
So I don't agree that Alessia spam is nearly as oppressive, as some other cases.- Pounce should cost 6, it gives great economy and allows snowballing Raj deck
- Patron costs should be 1/3/5 to reduce spam
Pounce is an explosive card in early game, but on paper it's not that valuable. Cards like Seizure, Murder or Lantern giving 6-7 value for 4 gold are more powerful if utilized fully. Pounce needs the same treatment — some gold gain moved to a combo — not a cost nerf, IMO.
Agree on patron cost change, would be a good start.
Edited by Altera0x on 2 December 2025 16:562 -
vuwuv✭✭I'm not a pro or anything, but in my experience, Alessia spam absolutely crumbles against Pelin. Early power cards make it easy to clear the board and continue to develop your deck, while the spammer clutters his deck with pretty mediocre cards. I rarely see people pick Alessia, but if they do I mostly ignore the patron and concentrate on not letting them hold anything on the table. Alessia's deck itself has an assortment of cards for that.
So I don't agree that Alessia spam is nearly as oppressive, as some other cases.
The problem with countering Alessia is that it heavily depends on the tavern: empty tavern and second turn - you're in a big trouble.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I‘m disagreeing with a lot of given reasons in OPs initial post as most can be countered rather easily, but I think patrons shouldn‘t be usable anymore when favored like it‘s the case with Crow. Or pair this with Tithe and give it the additional effect of being able to use your favored patron another time.
This fixes a lot of issues with patron spam, but would also kill some (obnoxious) strategies. If that’s not an option, the cost scaling should be adjusted, e.g. unfavored and favored should never cost the same as neutral.
PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
vuwuv✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »If that’s not an option, the cost scaling should be adjusted, e.g. unfavored and favored should never cost the same as neutral.
And it is the easiest option.
Unfavored Orgnum gives 2 power for 1 coin, but Alessia - 2 power for 3 coins. Isn't it hilarious?
For 3 coins you can spam Rajhin as much as you want, no drawbacks whatsoever.1 -
Calastir✭✭✭✭✭They should stop allowing people to magic up cards and massive scores from nowhere and just make up a last minute victory out of nowhere, but I doubt that'll ever happen.Chaszmyr Do'Benrae (Dunmer Magsorc Vampire Infinity) ~ Dusk Doublespeak (Breton Magplar Werewolf) ~ Stan of Rimari (Nord Dragonknight Tank) ~ Bunto Kim Alhambra (Redguard Magplar Paladin) ~ Alicyankali (Argonian Magicka Necromancer Draugr Kin) ~ Gruuman Odinfan (Orsimer Magplar) ~ Boymans van Beuningen (Khajiit Stam Warden Bowzerker) ~ Flannelflail (Imperial Stamina Nightblade Brawler PVP) ~ Calastir (Altmer Stamina Dragonknight) ~ Sallystir (Bosmer Stam Warden Frostbite PVP) ~ Zalastir (Altmer Magicka Warden Ice Storm) ~ Capt Peach (Nord Stamcanist Crux Cannon) ~ PC EU ~ Flynt Westwood (Bosmer Magicka Dragonknight) ~ Chandu the Conjurer (Redguard Magcanist Rune Walker) ~ PC NA ~ since May 26th, 2021.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
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I find this argument a bit moot. Unless you're recording every match it's very unlikely you'll catch this behavior on tape regularly.
I had enought matches where I was winning, but in the very last round my opponent pulled two Tithes and achieved a patron win.Edited by Seraphayel on 6 January 2026 08:57PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Altera0x✭✭
This isn't about just lucky draws. He claims there are literal game-breaking exploits.Seraphayel wrote: »I had enought matches where I was winning, but in the very last round my opponent pulled two Tithes and achieved a patron win.0 -
imPDA✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Unless you're recording every match
You can set up nvidia to capture last N (10-15 for example) minutes and save on demand, so if you face a strange behavior, you always will be able to record it. It worked even on old laptop, so I think it should not be a problem to set it up. There should be more than text accusations to be able to investigate, but ToT looks unhealthy.Your Friendly Neighborhood PvP Enjoyer (prior to U48)3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
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This isn't about just lucky draws. He claims there are literal game-breaking exploits.Seraphayel wrote: »I had enought matches where I was winning, but in the very last round my opponent pulled two Tithes and achieved a patron win.
I don't know if there are and I don't know if they can be cheated or it's a broken system. I think it is something related to the mechanics of the RNG and how the tavern etc. works - also with how cards are dealt. I'm not saying anyone is cheating, but there are situations sometimes you have to shake your head - and they happen often enough to at least make me suspicious.Seraphayel wrote: »Unless you're recording every match
You can set up nvidia to capture last N (10-15 for example) minutes and save on demand, so if you face a strange behavior, you always will be able to record it. It worked even on old laptop, so I think it should not be a problem to set it up. There should be more than text accusations to be able to investigate, but ToT looks unhealthy.
I'm playing on console and so do many, many others.Edited by Seraphayel on 8 January 2026 09:22PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Altera0x✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »I'm playing on console and so do many, many others.
Do you guys not have phones?©
Even if consoles are this gimped (which I doubt, because I see clips from them all the time), no one's asking for a top-quality 4K stream, any recording where gameplay can be discerned would suffice.0