Two Years On, Lightning Staff Arc Still Broken — Please Fix It

loveeso · November 26

ZOS, please restore the AoE damage of the lightning staff’s electric arc — because right now it’s just ridiculous. It’s always been ridiculous for you to change it. Watching an electric arc pass through enemies and do nothing completely breaks immersion.

No one will be against bringing back its damage anymore. We all have Arcanist beams, which are both much stronger and easier to use, so the lightning staff wouldn’t suddenly become overpowered.

In the past, some players were against the Oakensoul ring, not against heavy attack builds themselves. Heavy attack builds using two bars have always been part of ESO’s identity.

Then some devs nerfed the lightning staff, and the result is a weapon that looks powerful but feels hollow.

Please make it right.

Restoring its AoE damage won’t hurt your sales — people will still pay for and use the Arcanist beam. But it will fix a long-standing issue and bring back consistency to combat.

Soarora · November 26

Wasn’t the problem because people were getting 1-shot in PvP with no time to react? And ZOS never fixed the core problem?

loveeso · 3:41AM

Soarora wrote: »

Wasn’t the problem because people were getting 1-shot in PvP with no time to react? And ZOS never fixed the core problem?

One‑shot in PvP with a lightning staff heavy attack channel? Don’t think so. Sure, I vaguely remember a few noobs trying it in PvP, but they were quickly disillusioned about its actual viability. Anyway, what I’m talking about here is the first two pulses of the channel — which still hit single targets exactly the same as before, just no longer AoE. The single‑target damage hasn’t changed, so this clearly isn’t related to “one‑shotting players.”

No. The issue wasn’t the lightning heavy attacks themselves — those builds were letting more players step into vet and HM content, finally giving us a bigger pool of teammates that were (mostly) capable of pulling their weight. But then, right before the Arcanist expansion, a few forum voices decided that seeing “too many lightnings everywhere” was apparently intolerable, and that low‑APM players didn’t “deserve” that much power… and ZOS happily nerfed it. We lost quite a few players.

And what did those who paid for the expansion immediately get instead? The green beam. A straight‑up replacement. Same role, same purpose — only now it does more damage, easier, adds a shield, and runs at an even lower APM. Beams everywhere, bravo 😆

This isn’t really about damage anymore (no one’s giving up the beam, let’s be honest, much more powerful than those HA builds ever were).

It’s about fixing the absurdity: electric arcs phasing harmlessly through enemies looks ridiculous, breaks immersion, and makes the game feel sloppy. Time to clean it up.

BretonMage · 4:03AM

loveeso wrote: »

And what did those who paid for the expansion immediately get instead? The green beam. A straight‑up replacement. Same role, same purpose — only now it does more damage, easier, adds a shield, and runs at an even lower APM. Beams everywhere, bravo 😆

Yeah, they should revert the AOE nerf to the lightning staff. Now that lots of players are using Herald anyway, giving the lightning staff back its unnerfed AOE damage would give people a viable alternative to the beam.

tomfant · 6:09AM

Yet still 50% of the people at dolmens or world bosses use lightning staves. It was very ovbious during the writhing wall event at siege camps. One half beams, the other half channels lightning (and some weirdos use random other attacks). So, can't be that bad, right?

Avran_Sylt · 6:21AM

Lightning staff is literally the best HA weapon.

Avran_Sylt · 6:22AM

Are you annoyed that the Lightning HA beam doesn't also damage targets it passes through in addition to the targets it deals splash damage to?

Orbital78 · 6:25AM

tomfant wrote: »

Yet still 50% of the people at dolmens or world bosses use lightning staves. It was very ovbious during the writhing wall event at siege camps. One half beams, the other half channels lightning (and some weirdos use random other attacks). So, can't be that bad, right?

For overland anything is "not bad". Just because people still try to enjoy the build play style doesn't mean it is competitive anymore. I'm sure there were people using resto staves too.

Avran_Sylt · 6:31AM

Y'know, I wouldn't be too conflicted if the Lightning Staff HA only dealt damage to up to 3 additional enemies within a line connected to the target with a max of three, (ranged needing more coordination) with the 2H HA dealing damage to three enemies near the target (needing less coordination, range cost of melee, and such allowing 3 hit for LA's as well).

Avran_Sylt · 6:37AM

I'll admit I've never played a heavy attack build, but what's been neutered from them so far? (apart from power creep?) OP's "arc undamaging thorguh plauyers" sin't sometjing I';ve experienced, myself.

Soarora · 7:14AM

loveeso wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Wasn’t the problem because people were getting 1-shot in PvP with no time to react? And ZOS never fixed the core problem?

One‑shot in PvP with a lightning staff heavy attack channel? Don’t think so. Sure, I vaguely remember a few noobs trying it in PvP, but they were quickly disillusioned about its actual viability. Anyway, what I’m talking about here is the first two pulses of the channel — which still hit single targets exactly the same as before, just no longer AoE. The single‑target damage hasn’t changed, so this clearly isn’t related to “one‑shotting players.”

Yes, I know what you’re talking about. The problem is something like battle spirit not applying to NPCs in PvP zones. If you heavy attack an NPC and a player is in the splash range, they get 1-shot. If you attack the player themselves, they don’t. As far as I know, this is still true for the last hit of the attack. Since the first splash happened quickly, it was difficult to avoid the 1-shot.

loveeso wrote: »

No. The issue wasn’t the lightning heavy attacks themselves — those builds were letting more players step into vet and HM content, finally giving us a bigger pool of teammates that were (mostly) capable of pulling their weight. But then, right before the Arcanist expansion, a few forum voices decided that seeing “too many lightnings everywhere” was apparently intolerable, and that low‑APM players didn’t “deserve” that much power… and ZOS happily nerfed it. We lost quite a few players.

As one of the complainers, the problem was never the damage for me. It was the survivability. It became meta in the way that arcanist became meta pre-subclassing. AoE damage with self heals (group heals on a HA sorc!) and survivability (minor aegis on oakensorc, now shield on pragmatic). I had never seen people truly require a certain setup until the HA sorc sweep and it annoyed me that 1) the meta pigeonhole wasn’t even a similar playstyle to what everyone was used to and 2) the very same people pushing the meta pigeonhole complained about the build all the time.

Anyways, I’m not opposed to the lightning splashes coming back, it would make using a lightning staff more satisfying, but ZOS should also fix the problem in PvP. Probably by making battle spirit damage apply to the NPCs. Or make the AoE damage only apply to “monsters” if really necessary.

loveeso · 1:31PM

Soarora wrote: »

loveeso wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Wasn’t the problem because people were getting 1-shot in PvP with no time to react? And ZOS never fixed the core problem?

One‑shot in PvP with a lightning staff heavy attack channel? Don’t think so. Sure, I vaguely remember a few noobs trying it in PvP, but they were quickly disillusioned about its actual viability. Anyway, what I’m talking about here is the first two pulses of the channel — which still hit single targets exactly the same as before, just no longer AoE. The single‑target damage hasn’t changed, so this clearly isn’t related to “one‑shotting players.”

Yes, I know what you’re talking about. The problem is something like battle spirit not applying to NPCs in PvP zones. If you heavy attack an NPC and a player is in the splash range, they get 1-shot. If you attack the player themselves, they don’t. As far as I know, this is still true for the last hit of the attack. Since the first splash happened quickly, it was difficult to avoid the 1-shot.

loveeso wrote: »

No. The issue wasn’t the lightning heavy attacks themselves — those builds were letting more players step into vet and HM content, finally giving us a bigger pool of teammates that were (mostly) capable of pulling their weight. But then, right before the Arcanist expansion, a few forum voices decided that seeing “too many lightnings everywhere” was apparently intolerable, and that low‑APM players didn’t “deserve” that much power… and ZOS happily nerfed it. We lost quite a few players.

As one of the complainers, the problem was never the damage for me. It was the survivability. It became meta in the way that arcanist became meta pre-subclassing. AoE damage with self heals (group heals on a HA sorc!) and survivability (minor aegis on oakensorc, now shield on pragmatic). I had never seen people truly require a certain setup until the HA sorc sweep and it annoyed me that 1) the meta pigeonhole wasn’t even a similar playstyle to what everyone was used to and 2) the very same people pushing the meta pigeonhole complained about the build all the time.

Anyways, I’m not opposed to the lightning splashes coming back, it would make using a lightning staff more satisfying, but ZOS should also fix the problem in PvP. Probably by making battle spirit damage apply to the NPCs. Or make the AoE damage only apply to “monsters” if really necessary.

Thanks — refreshing to see a reply that actually lines up coherently with the topic. The NPC splash thing seems so easy to counter that if someone manages to pull it off, survive long enough on such a weak build, and get mobs positioned close enough to enemy players for the relatively narrow lightning splash to hit… then they deserve every kill they get. It looks like even more work than what bombers have to do — and bombers are also easy to counter: just spread out, like you would if you wanted your group to avoid a wipe with one grenade.

We have one‑shots in PvE too — whole groups wipe if they don’t know the counter or react too slowly. No one calls for nerfs there; we learn to cope. And honestly, one‑shots aren’t unusual in PvP games either. Snipers in shooters, shotguns at point‑blank, or MMO bombers all exist. The difference is they’re situational and counterable, not guaranteed. Lightning splash fits that same category: high effort, high risk, and easy to avoid if you know how to play.

Fine, I’ll wait another year or two before bringing this subject back (if both I and the game are still around). Maybe Vengeance will have made the PvP issue disappear by then. I wouldn’t be using lightning staff anyway — too weak even if they unnerfed it. It’s just that knowing those ridiculous lightning arcs are still out there makes the whole game feel so sloppy to me.

loveeso · 1:39PM

Orbital78 wrote: »

tomfant wrote: »

Yet still 50% of the people at dolmens or world bosses use lightning staves. It was very ovbious during the writhing wall event at siege camps. One half beams, the other half channels lightning (and some weirdos use random other attacks). So, can't be that bad, right?

For overland anything is "not bad". Just because people still try to enjoy the build play style doesn't mean it is competitive anymore. I'm sure there were people using resto staves too.

Exactly. I run around naked and punch overland to death when I’m (very) bored. Dolmens are such a weird thing to bring up in this conversation, right? 😁

Turtle_Bot · 2:01PM

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I'll admit I've never played a heavy attack build, but what's been neutered from them so far? (apart from power creep?) OP's "arc undamaging thorguh plauyers" sin't sometjing I';ve experienced, myself.

The short of it is: The Tri-Focus passive used to make it so that every tick of the lightning staffs heavy attack was an AoE around the initial target.

This was abused (occasionally) in PvP (IC mostly, where there's a bunch of NPCs to splash off and safe platforms to stand on while channeling the attack), so ZOS removed the splash damage from it except for the final tick of damage.

This build was terrible in other PvP modes since there were no good NPC targets to splash off of, no safe platforms to channel from and the channel left your character vulnerable.

The passive got reworked to only splash for the final tick of damage, and ever since, lightning staff heavy attack builds have really struggled to maintain relevancy in end-game PvE due to the lack of cleave against trash packs that die before the final tick and more importantly, the introduction of Arcanist that just beams everything down like the old lightning heavies, but with less button pressing, full range, full cleave the entire length of the beam (instead of just a splash around the main target) and even a free bonus damage shield included.

It also hasn't helped there's been a bunch of heavy attack bugs where the character just stands there in the animation, but no lightning comes out and no damage is being done.

licenturion · 2:19PM

loveeso wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

tomfant wrote: »

Yet still 50% of the people at dolmens or world bosses use lightning staves. It was very ovbious during the writhing wall event at siege camps. One half beams, the other half channels lightning (and some weirdos use random other attacks). So, can't be that bad, right?

For overland anything is "not bad". Just because people still try to enjoy the build play style doesn't mean it is competitive anymore. I'm sure there were people using resto staves too.

Exactly. I run around naked and punch overland to death when I’m (very) bored. Dolmens are such a weird thing to bring up in this conversation, right? 😁

I think this is also why overland difficulty stuff is happening so slowly.

Now all skills and sets are still viable in some way because overland is super easy and you could goof around. If they have hard overland that gives more rewards, I bet even the people who use non meta stuff will also pivot to a very meta builds.

And if they have hard overland, but without increased rewards, then almost nobody is probably going to play it.

tsaescishoeshiner · 6:41PM

I don't think the lightning staff arc/beam ever dealt AoE. But each tick used to deal AoE damage around your target, and now it's only the last hit. I believe the stated reason for the change was for performance and balance reasons, as lightning heavies used to be strong and prominent (and they're still good, so pretty successful targeted nerf).

I preferred each tick dealing AoE. It doesn't matter against bosses, but against small groups of enemies, if an enemy dies before the final tick, you get no AoE damage. It overall just doesn't feel as good to play with only the last tick being AoE. Edit: Let alone if you get staggered, the heavy attack randomly stops, or something else prevents the last hit, which takes several seconds.

Tannus15 · 8:13PM

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think the lightning staff arc/beam ever dealt AoE. But each tick used to deal AoE damage around your target, and now it's only the last hit. I believe the stated reason for the change was for performance and balance reasons, as lightning heavies used to be strong and prominent (and they're still good, so pretty successful targeted nerf).

I preferred each tick dealing AoE. It doesn't matter against bosses, but against small groups of enemies, if an enemy dies before the final tick, you get no AoE damage. It overall just doesn't feel as good to play with only the last tick being AoE. Edit: Let alone if you get staggered, the heavy attack randomly stops, or something else prevents the last hit, which takes several seconds.

this is exactly right. they nerfed it right before releasing the arcanist class when oakensoul lightning staff attack builds were at their most popular.

From memory they said it was a PvP issue where people were attacking npc's and players were taking the full damage from monsters from the AoE which is how people were getting 1 shot from the cleave.
I think.

personally i think they wanted to nerf it so that the arcanist would be the king of cleave.

tomofhyrule · 8:25PM

Tannus15 wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I don't think the lightning staff arc/beam ever dealt AoE. But each tick used to deal AoE damage around your target, and now it's only the last hit. I believe the stated reason for the change was for performance and balance reasons, as lightning heavies used to be strong and prominent (and they're still good, so pretty successful targeted nerf).

I preferred each tick dealing AoE. It doesn't matter against bosses, but against small groups of enemies, if an enemy dies before the final tick, you get no AoE damage. It overall just doesn't feel as good to play with only the last tick being AoE. Edit: Let alone if you get staggered, the heavy attack randomly stops, or something else prevents the last hit, which takes several seconds.

this is exactly right. they nerfed it right before releasing the arcanist class when oakensoul lightning staff attack builds were at their most popular.

From memory they said it was a PvP issue where people were attacking npc's and players were taking the full damage from monsters from the AoE which is how people were getting 1 shot from the cleave.
I think.

personally i think they wanted to nerf it so that the arcanist would be the king of cleave.

The nerf to splash damage from Tri Focus was done in U39 (so one patch after Arcanist released), and specifically called out the fact that lightning staff HAs were getting much more power than other staff types. They even included that as a dev comment.

Since this passive is meant to help reward fully charged Heavy Attacks, we've reigned in some of the effects with Lightning Staves to make them more in line with other weapons while retaining their unique gameplay with builds that go all in on them. In addition, we've tried to sweeten the rewards for the other two staff types that in general don't Heavy Attack as much.

The PvP effect wasn't the full reasoning for it, but lightning HAs in PvP zones did have an outsized effect. The splash damage done was based on the amount of damage the heavy attack did, but NPC mobs don't have the same resistances/crit resists as players do. If a player with a lightning staff targeted an NPC enemy in a PvP zone (like guards in Cyro or mobs in IC), then the splash done to nearby enemies (players) would give the full damage without considering resistances. It was fully an exploit, that could have been mitigated by making the Tri Focus respect resistances when calculating splash damage.

I understand there's a lot to be mad at the Combat team about right now, but it is best to stick to facts.