ESO Writing Team: Please...stop it.

Apollosipod · November 26

I'm currently playing through eastern Solstice and I am struggling due to the writing decisions this team has made. At one point you actually have our character make the comment "How did the assault go? I was busy rescuing prisoners and stuff."

Am I the only one that really hates this? I don't find it clever or funny. It's just immersion breaking. Why can't any of the dialogue be written like it's not an episode of a sitcom?

Radiate77 · November 26

Preach. 🙏

There is nothing worse than feeling like you’re playing a story designed for edgy teenagers.

Know your audience, ZOS.
MMOs are not favored by young gamers.

colossalvoids · November 26

Issues is that feedback like this getting drowned by "#esofam" on twitter, etc. if this folks are still around. Writing is getting worse with each and every year so not holding my breath for a sudden turn from the "funny haha" fest we're having in this theme park. That's like writers did saw the amount of humour in single player titles but the style went over their heads and landed somewhere in the modern marvel universe instead.

Syldras · November 26

It seems nothing is taken seriously anymore in writing, so why would the player take the story seriously? It can't work.

I'm not entirely against humour, of course. The game always had humourous content and characters. Cadwell is a good example. But it was a type of humour that fit the world and the story much better.

whitecrow · November 26

Yikes, that is terrible.

Syldras · November 26

The other thing they seem to be going for now is "romance". I fully expect them to include lots of random flirting next year (with "fan favorites", of course), probably believing that people will find that awesome and will ignore all flaws over that.

colossalvoids · November 26

Syldras wrote: »

The other thing they seem to be going for now is "romance". I fully expect them to include lots of random flirting next year (with "fan favorites", of course), probably believing that people will find that awesome and will ignore all flaws over that.

Well most of those new options seem quite... Excessive? Or too specific for the writer that I rarely was able to force myself to check those out, as they seemed too "off". It's interesting that they went with a new approach but it felt so flat and borderline useless, at least for me personally.

whitecrow · November 26

Great, ESO is now fan fiction.

BardokRedSnow · November 26

Romance is optional and popular so good luck convincing them not to go that way, I dont see anything wrong with it. As people have said its a story for adults. That said I wouldnt call what was in solstice romance, more flirty comments as it leads to nowhere. People loved it with Naryu, dunno why there's people hating on it now.

As for that bit of dialogue though, yea I didn't appreciate my character being made to sound like a terminally online millennial. But honestly I think eastern solstice did more right than wrong. In this case, sounding like an idiot should have been optional.

I think the real problem in the case of not just eso but games in general lately is that they're being written by millennials that actually talk like this. And stuff.

Jaimeh · November 26

In recent years I've noticed a type of meme-y humor as well as internet-speak in the dialogues, and like OP said, it's immersion breaking, poor quality and not up to the standards of earlier writing. I don't know if the team has undergone changes, but it's keenly felt in the quality of stories and dialogues as of late.

Syldras · November 26

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Romance is optional and popular so good luck convincing them not to go that way, I dont see anything wrong with it.

There's nothing wrong about "romance", the thing that's wrong is if it starts to feel like content releases begin to rely on fanservice as a substitute for interesting stories and deep lore. Lore-wise, East Solstice was just sad.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

As people have said its a story for adults.

I find it interesting how "for adults" always seems to mean more or less bawdy content (although what ESO has in that regard is super tame - I find it silly and clichéd, that's my whole problem with it), but never deeper characterisations, the avoidance of clear black/white schemes and other clichés, and complex stories not shying away from "difficult" topics (like moral dilemmas or questions of philosophy). That's what I would call "adult".

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

That said I wouldnt call what was in solstice romance, more flirty comments as it leads to nowhere. People loved it with Naryu, dunno why there's people hating on it now.

People have different opinions and I also found the Naryu "flirting" (or Jakarn in High Isle) silly. That's the problem: It's just so stupid. Herp derp! Bed! Wine! Bathing! "I also know a game I want to play with you! Hehehe...!" Gods.

Danikat · November 26

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

People loved it with Naryu, dunno why there's people hating on it now.

"People" are not a uniform group with one opinion between them. Some people liked it, others will have disliked it or been indifferent. Maybe the people who didn't like it didn't feel the need to mention it until it became clear it was going to be a reoccuring thing.

I know I was indifferent to Darien when he was an occasional side character in a few storylines I could forget about afterwards, but was more put off by ZOS informing us that they have decided we all find him attractive and want him flirting with our characters at every opportunity.

Yes romance storylines are popular with some people, but it needs to be a choice, not just a flat yes or no but a choice of who and how and when. My characters are all very different people and not only is it impossible to design a character they'd all find attractive, they'd all go about it in very different ways and without those options it's going to fall flat for me - I'd rather skip it entirely than waste my time on a storyline I have no interest in because it's full of things my characters would never do.

(Very different situation but it's the same reason I didn't like many of the chapter-specific tutorials. How you came to be sacrificed by the Worm Cult was left open so I could come up with all kinds of ways it happened to fit the characters. It's a lot harder to explain everyone being on a boat to Vvardenfell (especially if they leave immediately) or in an Elseweyr monastery or whatever.)

wolfie1.0. · November 26

I am surprised anyone takes the writing seriously. When characters that are dead, sacrificed to the gods, or supposedly transcended to a different planet of existence suddenly return...

And no real consequences for choices. And the ones you think you have get overridden or forced to be inconsequential.

Syldras · November 26

I also don't think it necessarily has to do with millenials being game writers nowadays, by the way. A good writer has the ability to write in a style that's appropriate for the story and medium they're writing for. It doesn't matter how they might talk or write in everyday life with their friends, it should be clear if a dialogue is supposed to be for a medieval fantasy game, it should sound accordingly. Let alone not all people born between 1980 and 1995 talk like that. I surely do not, and my friends of roughly the same age don't talk like that either.

Alphawolf01A · 1:44AM

I physically cringed at the end of an eastern solstice quest where a ghost sends you to tell his wife he died and you are given the option to flirt with her after delivering the news. Just low class.

BardokRedSnow · 5:06AM

Alphawolf01A wrote: »

I physically cringed at the end of an eastern solstice quest where a ghost sends you to tell his wife he died and you are given the option to flirt with her after delivering the news. Just low class.

And here I thought it was funny as hell and very in line with my dibellan character lmao, different strokes. See what I did there.

Its an option, options are good for an rpg.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I am surprised anyone takes the writing seriously. When characters that are dead, sacrificed to the gods, or supposedly transcended to a different planet of existence suddenly return...

And no real consequences for choices. And the ones you think you have get overridden or forced to be inconsequential.

It seems like some people are taking this too seriously in general judging from the responses. TES has always been a dark setting and I agree it could and should be darker, but the romance stuff, or anything relating to sex has never been the focus, and has always been light hearted, so for me none of it is a big deal and this is in line with the series. Could it be better, sure? I guess, always can but this isnt dragon age, just not what I want them to focus on.

Mannimarco coming back again makes sense for the anniversary, Darien eh will see in the future whats going on with him if its necessary or not but I enjoyed how it played out here until Darien kept crying about being useless.

kotisovich · 5:24AM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

dragon age

DAO was dark enough though

BardokRedSnow · 5:27AM

kotisovich wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

dragon age

DAO was dark enough though

True enough, they nailed the dark themes Id even say up til inquisition, many flaws aside.

AScarlato · 6:35AM

Syldras wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Romance is optional and popular so good luck convincing them not to go that way, I dont see anything wrong with it.

There's nothing wrong about "romance", the thing that's wrong is if it starts to feel like content releases begin to rely on fanservice as a substitute for interesting stories and deep lore.

ESO's writing problems started far before the new romance system was even a thing. Blaming romance options, or trying to pit romance as a theme against bad writing when the writing has been weaker for several years now is...something.

Many of the most compelling and enduring narratives in human history have romance is a core theme /motivating factor for heroes. Romance and a strong plot do not need to be mutually exclusive.

As far as ESO NPCs go, Darien is one of the more compelling choices. Not only do you go through a lot with him between Base Game --> Coldharbour --> Summerset --> Solstice, he has more nuance between his outward dialogue and his inner turmoil/writings, along with having being a tool of Meridia in common.

I'm waiting for a plot point where our interests simply don't align with hers and what that would mean.

RE: Danikat - you don't have to press the heart icons. It already is optional.

I do think they need to add at least one female option to cover their bases so it's not a "Darien or nothing" situation for many players, but for every game with Romance options - who is given to the player as an OPTION is who we get. I've played many solo RPG games were I'm not particularly interested in any of options and that is just how the cookie crumbles.

How the Player Character is written remains a sore point for me, as even now we continue to forget what is going on in the very same conversation we are in, or ask stupid questions like "why is armor important" in the context of war and other dumb questions that our characters can ask.

xbluerosesx · 6:47AM

Radiate77 wrote: »

Preach. 🙏

Know your audience, ZOS.

they're going for the mOdErN aUdIeNcE

whitecrow wrote: »

Great, ESO is now fan fiction.

always was

Major_Mangle · 7:06AM

Eso writing has been terrible for ages and I never understand people who think eso has good quests, lore and storytelling (with very few exception).

I remember the Gold Road story line where Hearmeus mora "didn't think about" the option to force Ithelia to create a new reality where she doesn't have her powers, as an option to fix the problem.....

So you want me to believe that a daedric deity known for possesing infinite knowledge more or less, with the ability to see past, present and future simultaneously, "didn't think of it"?....like really....

BretonMage · 7:52AM

I'd been looking forward to romances but I have not enjoyed the way they've written the flirting so far.

My issue is that not all player characters have the same personality, or interests. So mine is more of a serious character, even cynical, and just wouldn't indulge in the sort of wink-wink-nudge-nudge-teehee flirting I've seen with Raz. I didn't enjoy Naryu's innuendos either, and again, probably not the audience for it. I haven't seen Darien's scenes yet.

I only hope that the flirting style I've seen so far is not indicative of the other romances they have planned, and that there will be something for mature personalities as well.

As for the writing in general, even if it hadn't always been top tier, it was acceptable at least. "I was rescuing prisoners and stuff" is not (omg is that even real??).

Anumaril · 8:05AM

Immersion really needs to be taken more seriously with writing. It's all cute and funny when there's only one annoying or cringy character like Eveli in the Orsinium DLC, but when that style of writing becomes the norm it just takes you out of the world completely.

Necrotech_Master · 8:06AM

Apollosipod wrote: »

I'm currently playing through eastern Solstice and I am struggling due to the writing decisions this team has made. At one point you actually have our character make the comment "How did the assault go? I was busy rescuing prisoners and stuff."

Am I the only one that really hates this? I don't find it clever or funny. It's just immersion breaking. Why can't any of the dialogue be written like it's not an episode of a sitcom?

i thought that one response seemed really off and out of place from the rest of the dialogs

i was not unhappy with the multiple choice options for the dialogs to give different emotive responses, but stuff like that just seemed extremely out of place

the "and stuff" part of that was completely unnecessary lol

Lugaldu · 8:31AM

Yes, unfortunately, in recent years there have been more and more dialogues that are absolutely immersion-breaking because they feel like someone from our present day has been teleported to Tamriel. And you can think what you want about Tanlorin as a character, but this is exactly where things have gone way too far in this regard. I can't stand hearing all the comments while gathering resources anymore, especially the question about whether I sometimes pretend to be a beaver. Besides, I've never even seen a beaver anywhere in Tamriel...

xbluerosesx · 9:17AM

Lugaldu wrote: »

Yes, unfortunately, in recent years there have been more and more dialogues that are absolutely immersion-breaking because they feel like someone from our present day has been teleported to Tamriel. And you can think what you want about Tanlorin as a character, but this is exactly where things have gone way too far in this regard. I can't stand hearing all the comments while gathering resources anymore, especially the question about whether I sometimes pretend to be a beaver. Besides, I've never even seen a beaver anywhere in Tamriel...

millennial writing at it's finest

the MCU and its influence has been a disaster for writers

flizomica · 9:48AM

It's just more of the Whedon-ification that has infected so much of the sci-fi and fantasy space, where everything's gotta be a stupid quip and storytelling is now incompatible with sincerity.

Syldras · 10:30AM

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

It seems like some people are taking this too seriously in general judging from the responses.

Yes, I want to be able to take the stories I spend my time on seriously. It was possible in ESO's earlier years.

AScarlato wrote: »

ESO's writing problems started far before the new romance system was even a thing. Blaming romance options, or trying to pit romance as a theme against bad writing when the writing has been weaker for several years now is...something.

Nowhere did I blame romance for the bad writing. I said they seem to try to use fanservice as a big selling point now instead of trying for better writing in general. Just like they tried to use nostalgia bonus some years before which didn't really seem to work out.

AScarlato wrote: »

Many of the most compelling and enduring narratives in human history have romance is a core theme /motivating factor for heroes. Romance and a strong plot do not need to be mutually exclusive.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm a studied historian and philologist, and literature studies were a part of this. If the classics of romance literature (or ancient epics, or medieval heroic legends) were written like the flirting in ESO though, no one would still read them.

ZigoSid · 10:53AM

For me the ultra bad writting really started with High Isle. Of course, there already was bad things before that, like the repeating "get the artifact, one shot the god" trope.

But High Isle is where they blatantly lied about a "more grounded/complex/political" story only to end with everyone guessing the bad guy in 10 seconds because of obvious clichés and tropes. And the story being once more "ALL OF THAT WAS TO BE A GOD (well, "green" this time) AND RESHAPE THE WORLD LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL" in the end.