Love It Or Hate It - Oakensoul Is A Huge Boon To Our Game/Community (Guide Video As Well)

frogthroat · November 20

Morvan wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

Oakensoul isn't really a great mythic, even for HA one bar builds it gets outperformed by Velothi.

You sure? Are you really saying that whichever damage skills you can pack on your one bar using Velothi, the 15% damage increase and 99% decrease on your heavy attacks will be more dps than what Empowered heavy attacks are on Oakensoul build?

Just a quick calculation: Let's say you have 5x skills and they do on average 5k dps each. That 5k dps from a skill would become 5.75k with Velothi. If you pack 5 of those on your 1 bar, with Velothi your advantage from skills would be 750x5 over Oakensoul. We ignore here all the damage buffs Oakensoul gives that you would not have on your Velothi HA build just to give Velothi more advantage. In this scenario, Oakensoul heavy attacks should do less than 3.75k x 1.01 = 3787 dps for a Velothi HA one bar build to come on top. Even if you would be wearing nothing else but Oakensoul and a Lightning Staff, your HA dps would be more than 3787.

Are you sure you meant Velothi one bar HA build would outperform Oakensoul HA build?

I also mixed up things, for HA 1-bar builds I meant to say Rakkhat's is better, not Velothi. As Velothi caps 99% of your heavies, so you were right to be skeptical.

Though Velothi does outperform Oakensoul 1-bar beam builds for example, anything not reliying on heavies.

Ok, that makes more sense and yes, Rakkhat beats Oakensoul any day on HA builds.

I checked that video and Hyper's builds. Very similar to my Rakkhat build but I use MA staff on back bar. That's the biggest difference. So yeah, his builds are definitely viable. Although I would still use MA bb.

ShutUpitsRed · November 20

This community is so weird about Oakensoul. I genuinely don't understand why the naysayers don't get it: it's not about meta, it's not about "being better," it's not about efficiency, it's about having fun! Even accessibility aside, you can throw on Oakensoul and LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and have a workable build that will get you through normal content. Funny sounding set you're picking up while questing? Try it out with Oakensoul, nothing to lose. Subclassing giving you a headache and you just want to mix and match and try things out without sitting on a parse dummy all day? Oakensoul! "Oh but you can get XYZ buffs from all these other sources" ok? I don't want to cast Ulfsild's every ten seconds or whatever. I don't want to buy a new DLC. I don't want neon green arcanist skills polluting my eyes. In fact I kind of hate the visual effects of most buff skills and Oakensoul lets me actually enjoy the aesthetics of my characters! Themed builds and aesthetic skill sets and all kinds of PvP shenanigans are made so much easier (and more fun, imo) with Oakensoul.
Also, 100% uptime minor heroism is no joke, especially in PvP where you're never out of combat.

Meta and endgame etc is its own consideration, but the vast majority of players don't give a single hoot about veteran content, and when they do, then people can be pushy about what they're running when playing video game.

Koshka · November 20

I think the main issue with this ring is that its fans take any criticism of effectiveness of oakensoul builds as an attack on 1 bar setups , casual players and accesibility-centered options in general.
It's really confusing..1 bar and HA builds existed before Oakensoul and can perform well with other mythics. Like the others have said, velothi, pale order and rakkhats are really useful even for solo casual setups and can be great for accesibility as well. For example, pale order takes away the pressure of having to heal your char, which is great when you are fighting something like a dragon or a world boss. Even monster sets can be good and are far easier to get for a beginner (plus you can choose one that fits your character thematically if that's your thing).
In general, I would recommend people to explore different options instead of just focusing on this specific ring. Obviously, jumping from not having a build to using an oakensoul build would feel like an awesome power boost, but it doesn't mean that this mythic is god mode like some youtubers suggest.

SkaiFaith · November 20

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

This community is so weird about Oakensoul. I genuinely don't understand why the naysayers don't get it: it's not about meta, it's not about "being better," it's not about efficiency, it's about having fun! Even accessibility aside, you can throw on Oakensoul and LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and have a workable build that will get you through normal content. Funny sounding set you're picking up while questing? Try it out with Oakensoul, nothing to lose. Subclassing giving you a headache and you just want to mix and match and try things out without sitting on a parse dummy all day? Oakensoul! "Oh but you can get XYZ buffs from all these other sources" ok? I don't want to cast Ulfsild's every ten seconds or whatever. I don't want to buy a new DLC. I don't want neon green arcanist skills polluting my eyes. In fact I kind of hate the visual effects of most buff skills and Oakensoul lets me actually enjoy the aesthetics of my characters! Themed builds and aesthetic skill sets and all kinds of PvP shenanigans are made so much easier (and more fun, imo) with Oakensoul.
Also, 100% uptime minor heroism is no joke, especially in PvP where you're never out of combat.

Meta and endgame etc is its own consideration, but the vast majority of players don't give a single hoot about veteran content, and when they do, then people can be pushy about what they're running when playing video game.

No no no... See? You're not getting the point - if you defend Oakensoul you are simply, objectively wrong. Period. /s

Jokes aside, I appreciated the meme XD gave me the laugh I needed

but maybe I didn't really need it, 'cause I could have sourced it elsewhere XP
I'm having too much fun; I'll stop here...

robpr · November 20

tbh, Oakensoul was a mistake to be added after so many years of the game. It created such a rift in a community that was not very needed especially after disaster of U35. On one side you had established players that spent months of their time perfecting their skills, just to be matched with people equipping one singular item giving quadrillion constant buffs and just holding one button all the time, having both amazing trash clear and boss dps at the same time. On the other side you had less skilled and disabled players that could comfortably reach content they could not play before, opening trials and difficult achievements for them.
When these groups clash, it was quickly realized that Oak players are stuck on their specific level, while "traditional" builds could hone their skills further and improve. This lead to both exclusion by top groups that wanted all the power they could get and feeling of entitlement from subsection of Oak users demanding to be included in these groups.

This could all be avoided if instead of Oak, Rakkhat only would be added. Sure, its still would be less powerful than LA build, but less of a stigma of "just wanting rewards without effort" or "item for the disabled".

Personally I don't mind it, but I'd never use it, even with my arthritis. Tried it few times and the combat just felt boring with it, but if people find it fun then go ahead. I just feel it causes unnecessary drama that could easily be avoided if Rakkhat was added instead.

AvalonRanger · November 20

One bar style is not good for stamina build.
Because we lost melee or ranged weapon (bow) because of this.

Also not good for tank and healer. Because they need to do multiple complex task.

I did one bar style for my 2 characters now. But combat became quite boring.

sleepy_worm · November 21

SwordOfSagas · November 21

Oaken soul is awesome, I have basically every role that uses oaken soul and also all there 2 bar counterparts. I'm not physically disabled and don't need it but it's nice not having to keep buffs up tbh.

spartaxoxo · November 21

I am not disabled but I do get pain in my hands sometimes after playing. And I find the Oakensoul builds are easier on my hands. So I like to use my Oakensorc for stuff that is more intensive in gameplay because it's less painful.

A disabled family member of mine used to also play this game and that ring really opened the game up more for him.

Oakensoul is a wonderful accessibility option.

BretonMage · November 21

Koshka wrote: »

I think the main issue with this ring is that its fans take any criticism of effectiveness of oakensoul builds as an attack on 1 bar setups , casual players and accesibility-centered options in general.

Tbh I have not seen this in quite some time, these days it's quite the opposite. You tend to get mass downvoted on reddit if you bring up Oakensoul.

Also, a lot of players do really love this mythic, so it's natural they might have wanted to push back on criticism against it. Imagine if there was a single item that opened the door to a huge amount of content in the game. It's not hard to see why they'd appreciate it so much.

BlackTearsOfHope · November 21

I have nerve damage and my hands hurt and go numb, especially switching 2bars over and over.
If I play this game without it for any extended time I can't enjoy the game and feels like a chore; having to take long breaks from it.
Oakensoul is a life saver, after 20+ years of playing games, pc and console, I just can't anymore.

With it, I can enjoy arenas, dungeons, trials, ect.
It's not a game killer like people exaggerate, even when it first came out; although I wish it was like it was when it came out but still good.
I'm sure this is what they intended it for and it's wonderful.

Koshka · November 21

BretonMage wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

I think the main issue with this ring is that its fans take any criticism of effectiveness of oakensoul builds as an attack on 1 bar setups , casual players and accesibility-centered options in general.

Tbh I have not seen this in quite some time, these days it's quite the opposite. You tend to get mass downvoted on reddit if you bring up Oakensoul.

Also, a lot of players do really love this mythic, so it's natural they might have wanted to push back on criticism against it. Imagine if there was a single item that opened the door to a huge amount of content in the game. It's not hard to see why they'd appreciate it so much.

You can still see people in this very thread equating one bar or heavy attack builds to oakensoul, even though they existed before this mythic was a thing and can be used with other gear.
I personally just don't like how it is being advertized to new players as this awesome thing, almost like a cheat code to the game. And they just beeline to Oakensoul, without even looking into other options that maybe could've worked better for them (even in terms of accessibility, like the aforementioned pale order ring).

Orbital78 · November 21

It really comes down to personal taste or play style. My heavy attack setups almost always included self survival, so pale order was never that interesting. Void Mantle would be much more interesting if going out of oakensoul.

But even that didn't feel that great, when you can just tentacle tentacle beam as easily and do more damage.

BretonMage · November 21

Koshka wrote: »

I personally just don't like how it is being advertized to new players as this awesome thing, almost like a cheat code to the game. And they just beeline to Oakensoul, without even looking into other options that maybe could've worked better for them (even in terms of accessibility, like the aforementioned pale order ring).

Pale Order is liked by experienced players with high DPS, but it isn't that accessible for newer players. It only provides healing based on a percentage of your DPS, which necessitates a high enough DPS, and requires the player not to be CC'ed. Oakensoul also has a suite of other advantages.

Also, I think that when you're less experienced or struggling, having some crutches is useful while you're getting used to all the different mechanics in the game. I agree, however, that it's important that players always be encouraged to try out different builds that might work better for them in different situations. So even if someone makes a beeline for Oakensoul, if having fun encourages them to stick around enough to try out other things, I think that's a good thing.

frogthroat · November 21

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

This community is so weird about Oakensoul. I genuinely don't understand why the naysayers don't get it: it's not about meta, it's not about "being better," it's not about efficiency, it's about having fun! Even accessibility aside, you can throw on Oakensoul and LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and have a workable build that will get you through normal content.

The whole comment was great but I think this summarises the yay-sayer side quite nicely.

And we don't know what everyone is going through. Not only the mobility, or ease of use. But there could be other reasons.

Someone who finished work, got home, cooked dinner, put the kids to sleep and now has 2 hours... nay, little Johnny took a bit longer to go to sleep, so the next 1h 45 minutes is game time. I wouldn't want to experiment with something new there. I just want to do my daily crafting and a random dungeon or two and then sleep.

Or there's safety in familiarity. Mobility issues are not the only issues a person can have. Some people just can't handle big changes, especially if they feel they are coerced to do so.

Sure, you could slap on the PO for solo, add a couple of passive buffs on the back bar, and then switch to Rakkhat if grouping with other people. Not everyone want to do that, especially when you would need to get Empower elsewhere.

By now pretty much everyone understands Oakensoul can't compete in damage with other mythics but I would guess that is not a factor for those who use exclusively Oakensoul builds. Sure the damage ceiling is lower but it's also easier to reach it.

rhythmsuji · November 22

robpr wrote: »

tbh, Oakensoul was a mistake to be added after so many years of the game. It created such a rift in a community that was not very needed especially after disaster of U35. On one side you had established players that spent months of their time perfecting their skills, just to be matched with people equipping one singular item giving quadrillion constant buffs and just holding one button all the time, having both amazing trash clear and boss dps at the same time. On the other side you had less skilled and disabled players that could comfortably reach content they could not play before, opening trials and difficult achievements for them.
When these groups clash, it was quickly realized that Oak players are stuck on their specific level, while "traditional" builds could hone their skills further and improve. This lead to both exclusion by top groups that wanted all the power they could get and feeling of entitlement from subsection of Oak users demanding to be included in these groups.

This could all be avoided if instead of Oak, Rakkhat only would be added. Sure, its still would be less powerful than LA build, but less of a stigma of "just wanting rewards without effort" or "item for the disabled".

Personally I don't mind it, but I'd never use it, even with my arthritis. Tried it few times and the combat just felt boring with it, but if people find it fun then go ahead. I just feel it causes unnecessary drama that could easily be avoided if Rakkhat was added instead.

I will be honest here... The ring isn't the problem, The drama could be "avoided" if toxic people minded their own business.

Like, there would be no drama if people were not so obsessed with how others experience their game right?
I can agree that this passes a line a bit if Oaken was OP in PvP, like if it were the absolute best setup but it never was. And after nerfs it definitely is not.

Yet people still get enraged that there are options for people with physical or mental limitations, like they can't even stand them being a fraction as strong as them. Why? It's wild. They will literally beat someone using a HA build with ease, and then call them names as a sore winner lol. These players are the problem, not the accessibility builds.

rhythmsuji · November 22

SkaiFaith wrote: »

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

This community is so weird about Oakensoul. I genuinely don't understand why the naysayers don't get it: it's not about meta, it's not about "being better," it's not about efficiency, it's about having fun! Even accessibility aside, you can throw on Oakensoul and LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and have a workable build that will get you through normal content. Funny sounding set you're picking up while questing? Try it out with Oakensoul, nothing to lose. Subclassing giving you a headache and you just want to mix and match and try things out without sitting on a parse dummy all day? Oakensoul! "Oh but you can get XYZ buffs from all these other sources" ok? I don't want to cast Ulfsild's every ten seconds or whatever. I don't want to buy a new DLC. I don't want neon green arcanist skills polluting my eyes. In fact I kind of hate the visual effects of most buff skills and Oakensoul lets me actually enjoy the aesthetics of my characters! Themed builds and aesthetic skill sets and all kinds of PvP shenanigans are made so much easier (and more fun, imo) with Oakensoul.
Also, 100% uptime minor heroism is no joke, especially in PvP where you're never out of combat.

Meta and endgame etc is its own consideration, but the vast majority of players don't give a single hoot about veteran content, and when they do, then people can be pushy about what they're running when playing video game.

No no no... See? You're not getting the point - if you defend Oakensoul you are simply, objectively wrong. Period. /s

Jokes aside, I appreciated the meme XD gave me the laugh I needed but maybe I didn't really need it, 'cause I could have sourced it elsewhere XP
I'm having too much fun; I'll stop here...

God I wish I had this on hand when my reddit post was fresh. It would have gotten negative nuked too im sure, but I still would have liked to post it in the comments lol.

In fact, ya know what. I am doing it anyway on the dead post lol

rhythmsuji · November 22

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

This community is so weird about Oakensoul. I genuinely don't understand why the naysayers don't get it: it's not about meta, it's not about "being better," it's not about efficiency, it's about having fun! Even accessibility aside, you can throw on Oakensoul and LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE and have a workable build that will get you through normal content. Funny sounding set you're picking up while questing? Try it out with Oakensoul, nothing to lose. Subclassing giving you a headache and you just want to mix and match and try things out without sitting on a parse dummy all day? Oakensoul! "Oh but you can get XYZ buffs from all these other sources" ok? I don't want to cast Ulfsild's every ten seconds or whatever. I don't want to buy a new DLC. I don't want neon green arcanist skills polluting my eyes. In fact I kind of hate the visual effects of most buff skills and Oakensoul lets me actually enjoy the aesthetics of my characters! Themed builds and aesthetic skill sets and all kinds of PvP shenanigans are made so much easier (and more fun, imo) with Oakensoul.
Also, 100% uptime minor heroism is no joke, especially in PvP where you're never out of combat.

Meta and endgame etc is its own consideration, but the vast majority of players don't give a single hoot about veteran content, and when they do, then people can be pushy about what they're running when playing video game.

Yep. Ironically they claim there is a rabid cult of Pro-Oakensoul.

But most of us seem really aware and honest about its limitations, but just prefer using it for various reasons or in situations.
And they get absolutely furious that we aren't seeking "the most optimal OP" builds. Like, because that is their desire... They can't comprehend it not being the desire of everyone.

Super super ironic and hypocritical.

rhythmsuji · November 22

Koshka wrote: »

I think the main issue with this ring is that its fans take any criticism of effectiveness of oakensoul builds as an attack on 1 bar setups , casual players and accesibility-centered options in general.
It's really confusing..1 bar and HA builds existed before Oakensoul and can perform well with other mythics. Like the others have said, velothi, pale order and rakkhats are really useful even for solo casual setups and can be great for accesibility as well. For example, pale order takes away the pressure of having to heal your char, which is great when you are fighting something like a dragon or a world boss. Even monster sets can be good and are far easier to get for a beginner (plus you can choose one that fits your character thematically if that's your thing).
In general, I would recommend people to explore different options instead of just focusing on this specific ring. Obviously, jumping from not having a build to using an oakensoul build would feel like an awesome power boost, but it doesn't mean that this mythic is god mode like some youtubers suggest.

If you read through all the comment's I don't believe this is true.

I have seen this lie pushed by certain creators though like Hyperioxes in his take down video of anyone using it, and then that fueled a lot of people to "feel" the same way about Oakensoul users.

The truth is that while it's not the "best" one bar or HA setup, best isn't the only thing some people care about. And Oaken setup's for some classes genuinely are the most simplified builds. Like, if you add more restrictions "No buff upkeep, 1-2 buttons only" stuff like that. Then it is the best right? But even then, the argument usually revolves around being literally angry at people for not picking whats "optimal" because there is a failure to understand that not everyone is after "optimal".

Understanding fellow humans and their differences can be hard, especially for some more than others. And it can cause a LOT of problems, or can even lead to people being wrongfully bullied.

But I would argue there is far more people who are Anti Oakensoul and viciously so, than the reverse. There aren't people all over calling people noobs and various insults for NOT using Oakensoul. Oakensoul users tend to just want to be left alone to enjoy the game the way they like, the bullying comes from the other direction while those same bullies claim to be the altruistic "good" guys.

rhythmsuji · November 22

SwordOfSagas wrote: »

Oaken soul is awesome, I have basically every role that uses oaken soul and also all there 2 bar counterparts. I'm not physically disabled and don't need it but it's nice not having to keep buffs up tbh.

YEP! And there should be zero reason to attack you or any Oaken/HA user like some of the elitists do. Because enjoyment of the game is literally the most important aspect of gaming. If it's how you enjoy playing, then it aint wrong. No matter how much they demand their perspective is "objectively" right.

rhythmsuji · November 22

BlackTearsOfHope wrote: »

I have nerve damage and my hands hurt and go numb, especially switching 2bars over and over.
If I play this game without it for any extended time I can't enjoy the game and feels like a chore; having to take long breaks from it.
Oakensoul is a life saver, after 20+ years of playing games, pc and console, I just can't anymore.

With it, I can enjoy arenas, dungeons, trials, ect.
It's not a game killer like people exaggerate, even when it first came out; although I wish it was like it was when it came out but still good.
I'm sure this is what they intended it for and it's wonderful.

The elitists hate it to where they literally spread propaganda against it.

But the irony is that it didn't kill the game, it allowed even more people to continue playing it a lot more. Such as yourself.

They are trying to gaslight reality itself lol

rhythmsuji · November 22

BretonMage wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

I think the main issue with this ring is that its fans take any criticism of effectiveness of oakensoul builds as an attack on 1 bar setups , casual players and accesibility-centered options in general.

Tbh I have not seen this in quite some time, these days it's quite the opposite. You tend to get mass downvoted on reddit if you bring up Oakensoul.

Also, a lot of players do really love this mythic, so it's natural they might have wanted to push back on criticism against it. Imagine if there was a single item that opened the door to a huge amount of content in the game. It's not hard to see why they'd appreciate it so much.

Exactly this. Because elitist content creators made it like a gospel to bully anyone speaking fondly of or using it, and their following followed suit VERY strongly.

Players minding their own business enjoying an aspect of the game and talking about it? NOT ON THEIR WATCH!!

xD

spartaxoxo · November 22

rhythmsuji wrote: »

YEP! And there should be zero reason to attack you or any Oaken/HA user like some of the elitists do. Because enjoyment of the game is literally the most important aspect of gaming. If it's how you enjoy playing, then it aint wrong. No matter how much they demand their perspective is "objectively" right.

It's not just Oakensoul that gets this.
I've seen someone describe disliking subclassing as a matter of having integrity. I've seen people describe enjoying overland as akin to eating Play-Doh or doing stuff with crayons that I don't fully remember. I've seen statements that people who enjoy crown crate mounts are childish. I've seen people called bullies for killing a delve boss faster than someone else. I've seen someone calling for people to be banned for farming world bosses for leads.

Honestly, I've been guilty of that type of mindset before too in video games like ugh that stuffs for noobs if I get annoyed. It's not right but we all have our moments where we wish we had expressed ourselves in a better way. But, generally speaking, I try to remember that that people will find all sorts of different things fun. It's just a video game at the end of the day. There's no reason to judge anyone for how they like to play. And multiple different perspectives can be valid even if they should be expressed a different way.

Don't let negative comments weigh you down.

tohopka_eso · November 22

I use Oakensoul almost exclusively now. I did try a different build with two bars but the buff upkeep and constant switching was killing my hand that has nerve damage. I play on computer but use a controller also.

I don't follow Meta, raid or do Veterans and I'll HA along with LA while playing. With Isobel at my side and my bear I've been able to do normal trials and clear Infinite archive up to 3 before I reset it.

I generally just ignore the naysayers and just keep on, minding my own business. Probably why I avoid all guild invites also. I just want to play the game my way and that is it.

SkaiFaith · 8:18AM

A context that could help someone understand: today I will not be able to play - why? Yesterday I've been too active... IN GUILD CHAT! I typed too much with the digital keyboard and my thumb is in hard pain and will stay like this for long.

So... "Can't you drink potions every 45 seconds?" Or bar swap, or add skill press? Just NO. Or my playtime would reduce. I have to be very cautious with how I play.

AvalonRanger · 9:21AM

Oakensoul is good for mag DPS.
Oakensoul is bad for stam DPS.

Why? Because there're no stam ranged skill attack.