Love It Or Hate It - Oakensoul Is A Huge Boon To Our Game/Community (Guide Video As Well)

rhythmsuji · November 20

Jestir wrote: »

Yeah, as said above oakensoul is just not very good. It is an all rounder mythic easily outclassed by other more specialized ones in almost any situation

The the same amount of effort/button presses? Which builds?

rhythmsuji · November 20

C_Inside wrote: »

I see your video and raise you one by Hyper instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1omCaqpoiMc

TL:DR Oakensoul is bad even on 1 bar builds and even on solo builds because the buffs it provides are all either useless or easily sourced. Even if you never switch bars and keep your back bar completely empty you're better off using something like Velothi/a monster set (for group content), Rakkhat (for HA builds), or Pale Order (for solo builds).

Not to mention that playing a werewolf will give you way more dps than any oaken-soul build you can come up with while still keeping it a 1 bar. You don't even need to track ultimate in this case.

Even though I do not like the weird political position he takes, and it seems many people take.

I will be more than happy to try out that mythic and see how it does, ive never actually dabbled with it.

He also seems to have this extra political and angry view toward content creators as if we aren't normal players to most of the time and just sharing the best info we know of lol. Like, if I had tried the build he was talking about and knew it to be better and more accessible than Oakensoul then I would be sharing that one. It's not like the Oakensoul is paying me to do PR for it xD. I don't even get paid at all, my content costs me to make it.

This is the main problem in most game communities but definitely in ESO. People have such an immediate and strongly judgey toxic reaction to things, with tons of assumptions and elitism. Even in content creation or game knowledge, it's so unhinged.

wolfie1.0. · November 20

I use oakensoul to save on transmute stones for alt builds, its simplified rotation,

And lastly that, between scribing and subclassing, an oakensoul build actually has more dps diversity options than a teo bar set up does. Basically, the learning curve to dps investment is lower vs two bar builds and you dont have to do the meta for a decent output.

rhythmsuji · November 20

AvalonRanger wrote: »

We need skill combo system rather than one bar style as new game function.

Put skill set which I want to use it at same time, and just push one button then
every favorite skill launch at same timing regardless 2 bar or not.

I used the macro system in WoW for my mom back when we used to play. I had a VERY sick macro I crafted for her myself that essentially turned her hunter into a 1 button killing machine lol.

rhythmsuji · November 20

kevkj wrote: »

The Oakensoul Ring has been paying my rent, groceries and taxes ever since I obtained it in-game.

LOL! The true breadwinner xD

rhythmsuji · November 20

rothan117 wrote: »

I use Oakensoul on my main and all my alts. I just cannot do the bar swapping effectively anymore. Age and arthritis are slowing my keyboard skills down and having to bar swap became too much, my dps went up when I got Oakensoul due to that.

YUP! This. All of this.

And as others have stated here and on the reddit post, there might be other options. But if the Oakenbuild is working for plenty of us, and the game is VERY doable with Oakenbuilds. I genuinely don't know why they seem so angry or pressed to convince us that it sucks.

I am open to it not being the best option, but it is very versatile for many different builds and classes and very easy to grasp how to work it. So it hasn't really forced me to seek something different for my mom, and she kinda has a breakdown if I ever change even one spell. So if it aint broke... ya know?

rhythmsuji · November 20

Arunei wrote: »

For me, keeping track of a bunch of buffs and weapon swapping can get super overwhelming super quick, so playing an Oakensorc has been nice. I've had one for a few years now and she's the main character I do stuff like IA and dungeons on, and she does pretty decent damage. It's definitely enough to get me through all the content I ever plan on doing.

I appreciate your addition to this, and this is my sentiment as well. SO many people come at these posts with elitism acting like we are committing a crime for not being "the most optimal" or "meta". But I genuinely don't get why or how they maintain that energy about how some of us enjoy the game. It's not within their "rules" and whats "best" so... anger?

Weird.

rhythmsuji · November 20

LunaFlora wrote: »

awesome post!

i love Oakensoul, it has made combat more accessible for me.
i was so happy when seeing it in High isle/update 34 in 2022. i still miss the Major Courage, Force, and Beserk, but the Minor versions are still good anyway.

As a disabled girl, it was physically painful to frequently reactivate skills for buffs, Light attack weave, and frequently bar swap.
i use Oakensoul for all my damage builds and i doubt that will change. Not all my builds are Heavy attack focused with Sergeant's Mail, but still Heavy attack instead of Light attack regardless

Coupled with Subclassing i can have fun themed builds and have all the useful buffs Oakensoul provides, yippie.

i dream of Oakensoul's buffs being a toggle so i can use other Mythics that seem fun at the same time, though that is sadly unlikely to happen

I am getting genuinely happy reading some of these replies!

This is great feedback and feels a bit validating with how im getting cooked on reddit lol. One of the mods there literally mentioning "using" "The disabled" as he grossly put it... just for mentioning how the ring has helped my mom and others play the game at a higher capacity and made it more accessible for them. He turned it into some weird "you cant talk about them" taboo. As if spreading awareness might not help someone else who might be struggling?

Or maybe someone who hasn't started ESO because they fear it might be too many buttons or hand stress? Even if I reach one person and it shows them there are options, I don't see how that's negative or bad to mention. Some of this community can be so toxic, but others like you guys here are AWESOME. So I guess I have to just get used to getting both sides of the coin. xD

Thanks again! For sharing your story and the kind words.

rhythmsuji · November 20

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I was ready to rage quit the game after the dumpster fire called Update 35. In desperation I decided to try Oakensoul before quitting. I fell in love with it and decided to stay with ESO. Now, every one of my characters uses Oakensoul and I don't ever see that changing - tank, healer, dps - all of them. The primary reason I love Oakensoul (as a solo PvE player) is to avoid the micromanagement of buffs. While I do have a couple HA lightning staff builds, several of my builds are not HA. That said, even for a non-HA build, an Oakensoul HA is actually an effective 'skill' that has the added bonuses of no skill slot required, solid damage and a nice return on resources.

I am so glad they added it and I am glad we got to keep you in our community!

And this is one of my points as I am being challenged on this convo and video elsewhere. Why must we change it? If our builds work very very well, and clear most content in the game more proficiently than even intended when the content was made. Then why is it such a big deal if we have not sought out and replaced Oaken with the "more optimal" option whatever each one would be?

If its simple, easy to understand and we already have many characters proven to be solid. Why do they angrily demand we change it and want us not to talk about the way we like it? lol. So odd.

rhythmsuji · November 20

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I use oakensoul to save on transmute stones for alt builds, its simplified rotation,

And lastly that, between scribing and subclassing, an oakensoul build actually has more dps diversity options than a teo bar set up does. Basically, the learning curve to dps investment is lower vs two bar builds and you dont have to do the meta for a decent output.

I appreciate the input and method, that is a really good use of it. Like a character introduction and investment tool.

IsharaMeradin · November 20

Every so often I play around with my build on my main character to see if I can get something that parses a little bit more on the practice targets that I have. For a long while I was using two bars and doing a lot of swapping and skill upkeep. I was able to do several base game dungeons on vet solo without companion.

I tried Oakensoul. My damage output per second increased and my stress / frustration levels from all the bar swapping went down. Do I always heavy attack? No. I still do my best to LA weave with a spam skill.

I can still do those dungeons on vet if I really want plus some others where as long as the companion stays alive, keeps me healed and whittles down the boss, I can hang out stuck inside a cocoon or other mech.

I've only managed to dig up one copy of Oakensoul, so any other character I play ends up having to bar swap. So, I'm not losing that muscle memory either.

BretonMage · November 20

I appreciate Oakensoul's simplicity as it helps me focus on mechanics when I'm new to content, or when I'm not feeling particularly alert on any given day. I don't really like pure HA builds, so I used to use Oakensoul with some LA weaving (admittedly not good weaving). It hasn't kept up with power creep, unfortunately, which is why I suspect a lot of players are saying it's just not that good. I'm now using a subclassed 2-bar build, but I still use Oakensoul occasionally.

The issue I find with the discussion around Oakensoul is the way people call it out for being not very good, while ignoring that it is, despite that, enjoyable to use for quite a number of us. And no, we don't have to be disabled to enjoy it lol.

As for Hyperioxes, yeah, he seems to really dislike Oakensoul. Most (all?) of his one-bar builds use Ulfsild's Contingency, which takes some micromanagement to get right for Empower, and which I personally do not like. I refer to his site a lot since it's regularly updated, but I'm not much of a copy-paster. If people like his builds, great for them, but they should let others enjoy the builds they (the others) like without judgement.

Renato90085 · November 20

The beginners group I've helped usually use it Mythic to get their first trial hardmode clean(vss or vka).
but when they know how enjoy swap build or high cpm build,they easy give up it
my pov:
this still solo build bis ,and in normal/pug group,still better than Rakkhat's Voidmantle if player/mech cant full work time in Empower buff
the only one place i hate someone run this just in vcr a mini boss have swap bar mech

SkaiFaith · November 20

rhythmsuji wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I was ready to rage quit the game after the dumpster fire called Update 35. In desperation I decided to try Oakensoul before quitting. I fell in love with it and decided to stay with ESO. Now, every one of my characters uses Oakensoul and I don't ever see that changing - tank, healer, dps - all of them. The primary reason I love Oakensoul (as a solo PvE player) is to avoid the micromanagement of buffs. While I do have a couple HA lightning staff builds, several of my builds are not HA. That said, even for a non-HA build, an Oakensoul HA is actually an effective 'skill' that has the added bonuses of no skill slot required, solid damage and a nice return on resources.

I am so glad they added it and I am glad we got to keep you in our community!

And this is one of my points as I am being challenged on this convo and video elsewhere. Why must we change it? If our builds work very very well, and clear most content in the game more proficiently than even intended when the content was made. Then why is it such a big deal if we have not sought out and replaced Oaken with the "more optimal" option whatever each one would be?

If its simple, easy to understand and we already have many characters proven to be solid. Why do they angrily demand we change it and want us not to talk about the way we like it? lol. So odd.

Funny thing is those same people would shout for nerf if they'd hear something like this: "thanks to oakensoul I've been able to solo Graven Deep standing in red, not doing the mechanic (failed it and survived)" XD

With some people you can never win. Just ignore and enjoy your gameplay; luckily devs seem to understand our appreciation for the item (some use it themselves).

And thank you for the kind words

Have a good day!

Al_Ex_Andre · November 20

I use Oakensoul at this moment because it is simplier and I am disabled, and also because getting a new bar to recast buffs is (imo) not good gameplay. I know that's more button pushing though, which is good in my book. But the history I have with this kind of mecanic is not brilliant.

I played a paladin in wow, and they added that kind of mecanic to the class in a xpac, disliked it, because one needed to cast the buff, then you could do damage, or if you did not cast the buff, your damage was halved. It was not okay when doing dailies. Could be okay in raids, or against dungeon boss though when you stick to a target, but overall not good.

Long story short, this mecanic was not renewed in the next xpac, and I think back then they were in their right, so not sure I can truly like this mecanic in ESO now :-s ^^ So there, oakensoul is here, and I am using it.^^

C_Inside · November 20

I've read a bunch of the replies here since I posted Hyper's video and it seems that the people that are enjoying Oakensoul are either ones that are disabled and physically can't barswap, or ones that enjoy the simplicity of a one bar build.

Thing is, you're not enjoying the Oakensoul ring itself. You're enjoying the one bar build. And you can very easily detach the two. There is no rule that you must wear an Oakensoul ring if you're doing a one bar build. Like I said in my previous post you'll get way more damage from using a different mythic or a 2 piece monster set.

"Oh but C_Inside, if I don't use Oakensoul I need to keep track of 1000 different skill timers and buffs" - No you don't. Most of the buffs Oakensoul gives you are provided to you by the healers and tanks. The only things you need to provide yourself that you need to actively refresh are the Major crit chance and Weapon/Spell damage buffs, Minor Force, Empower (if you're using a heavy attack build) and maybe Minor Heroism.

The Major Crit/Weapon/Spell damage buffs can be gotten from just chugging a potion every 45 seconds. If pressing your potion button every 45 seconds is seriously too hard then another idea is to slot Inferno or Grim Focus, and Tome-Bearer's Inspiration on your back bar. Those give the Major buffs passively just for having them slotted on either bar. No need to activate them.

Minor Force can be gotten by using the Velothi Ur-Mage amulet instead of Oakensoul if you're not running a heavy attack build. Easy as that. If you're running a HA build then you can either replace one of your front bar skills with Barbed Trap or you can just ignore Minor Force entirely and get your crit damage elsewhere. So no need to change your rotation at all.

Empower can be gotten by using Contingency or Scalding Rune every 10 seconds. You can replace one of your active skills that you were using anyway with this and your rotation won't change at all

Minor Heroism can be gotten most easily from Banner Bearer with Heroism as an affix. Banner is a completely passive skill and it can be used to replace one of your active skills. So it will make your rotation even easier. Although admittedly Heroism is such a small damage buff that you're better off using Minor Courage or Minor Berserk as the affix.

So if you're using a HA build you refresh Barbed Trap every 20 seconds, Contingency/Rune every 10 seconds, you run Banner passively, and then you just need to refresh your other 2 DOTs every 20/30 seconds. And if you're not using a HA build you don't even need Contingency/Rune. If you're seriously telling me that this sounds too hard then I'm sorry but it just sounds like you're arguing in bad faith at this point.

frogthroat · November 20

rhythmsuji wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

The way Oakensoul is right now, it has its uses. Not really for competitive builds, but it's still useful. It's absolutely great for those with mobility issues. I do recommend it for those with disabilities and have helped many to make that build.

I still had two builds using Oakensoul myself until recently. One was my crafter that I use to collect survey and treasure maps with. I switched to Rakkhat, but for crafting and overland questing Oakensoul would be enough. I don't need to parse over 100k to pick flowers. HA Oakensoul is a simple, tanky, and very much survivable build, although it cannot compete in dps with 2bar builds.

The other was a "group ganker" PVP build. Not really a ganker build, but with one button so many DOTs that I could apply a ridiculous amount of pressure from behind the front lines so that the brawlers in our group have easier time. ...until they gutted one set and now it doesn't work any more.

The point being, it does have it uses. Best in slot for those with disabilities affecting their button pressing, and pretty good for those who prefer a more casual playstyle. Or, if you know what you are doing, it can be used for some fun, niche off-meta builds - like some WW builds.

For HA bulds the two competing builds would be with Oakensoul and with Rakkhat. Oakensoul is much easier to play and you do ok damage with very little effort. The negative is the damage ceiling is much lower, but on the other hand, it's super easy to reach that ceiling. With Rakkhat the ceiling is much higher and more difficult to get to, but is still relatively easy. You just need to source Empower from elsewhere.

However, I would not recommend Oakensoul to new players. Absolutely not. Oakensoul is easy and that is its downfall for new players. With Oakensoul you'll never learn LA-weaving and bar swapping. It also limits your builds so you don't really learn as much about customising your build. If you learned ESO using a one bar build and then want to do some serious end game content where 2bar builds are much, much better you would need to start learning (almost) from the beginning. Might be difficult to learn 2bars and LA-weaving when you are still learning the basics but it will be more beneficial in the long run.

tl;dr - I would recommend Oakensoul builds for those with mobility issues and for those looking for a more casual playstyle. I would absolutely not recommend Oakensoul to new players where it would hinder learning important mechanics of the game.

This is a fair perspective, I don't fully agree. BUT I can see why you would prefer not to do so.

I have helped a couple new players get the ring, I just ask them what their goals are and make sure they know the limitations and where to go after Oaken if they wish to train up. Some people find the game very overwhelming to start, but after a long time they might be comfortable enough to start throwing in a second bar.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I would want to forbid new players from using Oakensoul builds, but instead I would encourage them to practice 2bar. I do see the point in Oakensoul and have even written an article explaining how to make a HA Oakensoul build for any class. (I should probably update it for subclassing and finally make a better customisation for pure class Arcanist.)

In fact, I will probably go back to Oakensoul on my crafter build. Since I only do some overland stuff with that build I really don't need the +100k parse HA build on it and I won't be taking that build to any "serious" content. So "press a button down until everything dies so I can continue picking flowers" is more than sufficient for me. That being said, if you have a +100k parsing HA build, by all means take that to harder content -- I, personally, won't be doing that other than maybe for more casual veteran runs, but I wouldn't mind if others use those. Of course they are viable.

Although the game can be overwhelming for new players, bar swapping and la-weaving are important if you want to reach full potential. That's why I would still recommend doing the hard work sooner rather than later. Of course if someone knows the pros and cons, and still opts for Oakensoul, I would help them.

I do consider it bis for those who may not be able to click buttons as much as 2bar builds require, and a good option for casual playstyles, but I still stand by my position that for new players it would be better to learn 2bars and la-weaving first -- but if they still want to go with the Oakensoul route, I would even help with the build if needed.

BretonMage · November 20

frogthroat wrote: »

Although the game can be overwhelming for new players, bar swapping and la-weaving are important if you want to reach full potential.

Is Oakensoul not recommended for use with LA weaving? I know that most use it with HA builds, but I seem to remember seeing some builds for LA Oakensoul, though that was pre-U45, I think.

frogthroat · November 20

BretonMage wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Although the game can be overwhelming for new players, bar swapping and la-weaving are important if you want to reach full potential.

Is Oakensoul not recommended for use with LA weaving? I know that most use it with HA builds, but I seem to remember seeing some builds for LA Oakensoul, though that was pre-U45, I think.

That's it. Most use (in PVE) is in HA builds and you don't really need to care about la-weaving with HA builds.

Of course if you make a non-HA (and non-beam) Oakensoul build, then you can la-weave as much as any other build.

SkaiFaith · November 20

Admittedly, I never drink potions and never activate ultimates (use Bear with CP slot that gives health regen back). I want the less stress possible so I can manage it. It's not bad faith, it's the way I want to play, and I don't want to use skills different from what I enjoy using. I even disable buffs/debuffs icons since I don't know what they mean and they break immersion. Still I got Inkslayer solo.

Am I a bad player for a Trial? Some would say so because I'm not willing to adapt my build to the grup and those would insta-kick me. But every time I ask Veterans if with my specs I can join and clear a Normal Trial or Veteran DLC Dungeon they all say I'm good as I am. That's the type of content I aim for and for that "one button Oakensoul" is good enough. (And no, it doesn't need nerfs). Obviously I wouldn't pretend to participate in a Hard Mode Trial or DLC dungeon since I know I personally can't keep up with all the stuff on screen, and it's not a problem to me.

When it comes to soloing content, as I already said, depending on the conditions of the player Oakensoul can be a godsend. It's simply the easiest, lowest apm, most forgiving way to play solo. It's not the most efficient, but who cares? Not everyone wants to be efficient.
It's like if you stress me to teleport to you because it's quicker... Man, I'm one wayshrine away from you, may I prefer to enjoy the ride?

frogthroat · November 20

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Admittedly, I never drink potions and never activate ultimates (use Bear with CP slot that gives health regen back). I want the less stress possible so I can manage it. It's not bad faith, it's the way I want to play, and I don't want to use skills different from what I enjoy using. I even disable buffs/debuffs icons since I don't know what they mean and they break immersion. Still I got Inkslayer solo.

Am I a bad player for a Trial? Some would say so because I'm not willing to adapt my build to the grup and those would insta-kick me. But every time I ask Veterans if with my specs I can join and clear a Normal Trial or Veteran DLC Dungeon they all say I'm good as I am. That's the type of content I aim for and for that "one button Oakensoul" is good enough. (And no, it doesn't need nerfs). Obviously I wouldn't pretend to participate in a Hard Mode Trial or DLC dungeon since I know I personally can't keep up with all the stuff on screen, and it's not a problem to me.

When it comes to soloing content, as I already said, depending on the conditions of the player Oakensoul can be a godsend. It's simply the easiest, lowest apm, most forgiving way to play solo. It's not the most efficient, but who cares? Not everyone wants to be efficient.
It's like if you stress me to teleport to you because it's quicker... Man, I'm one wayshrine away from you, may I prefer to enjoy the ride?

After reading your explanation you would be exactly the type of player I would recommend Oakensoul to. I think you made the correct decision in your choice of mythic. I see you have weighted the options and your preferred playstyle matches what Oakensoul can bring to the table and you are content with the limitations. A perfect match, in that case.

C_Inside · November 20

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Admittedly, I never drink potions and never activate ultimates (use Bear with CP slot that gives health regen back). I want the less stress possible so I can manage it. It's not bad faith, it's the way I want to play, and I don't want to use skills different from what I enjoy using. I even disable buffs/debuffs icons since I don't know what they mean and they break immersion. Still I got Inkslayer solo.

Am I a bad player for a Trial? Some would say so because I'm not willing to adapt my build to the grup and those would insta-kick me. But every time I ask Veterans if with my specs I can join and clear a Normal Trial or Veteran DLC Dungeon they all say I'm good as I am. That's the type of content I aim for and for that "one button Oakensoul" is good enough. (And no, it doesn't need nerfs). Obviously I wouldn't pretend to participate in a Hard Mode Trial or DLC dungeon since I know I personally can't keep up with all the stuff on screen, and it's not a problem to me.

When it comes to soloing content, as I already said, depending on the conditions of the player Oakensoul can be a godsend. It's simply the easiest, lowest apm, most forgiving way to play solo. It's not the most efficient, but who cares? Not everyone wants to be efficient.
It's like if you stress me to teleport to you because it's quicker... Man, I'm one wayshrine away from you, may I prefer to enjoy the ride?

Like I explained, if you're not using a heavy attack build then Oakensoul is only giving you Major Brutality/Sorcery, Major Savagery/Prophecy, Minor Force, and Minor Heroism. Major Brutality/Sorcery and Savagery/Prophecy, you can get by just slotting Inferno or Grim Focus, and Tome-Bearer's Inspiration on your back bar and just using them as a bar buffer. You don't need to activate them. Minor Force you can get from Velothi permanently. And Minor Heroism you can get from Banner Bearer permanently. Although since you're not using ultimates that would be useless and you can use Berserk/Courage as your affix instead.

So explain to me why you're still using Oakensoul? What exactly is it giving you that you can't get elsewhere just as easily? All it's doing is gimping you for no reason. You can literally do at least 4-5K more dps if you switch Oakensoul for Velothi or Selene. You don't need to change anything on your build or playstyle.

And if your intention is to do solo content then Oakensoul would be even worse for your playstyle. You want to play passively but Oakensoul will force you make sure you have your heal over time effects up and to make sure you use a burst heal if you take a big hit. Does that sound easier than just slapping on Pale Order and letting it heal you passively while you focus on doing damage?

old_scopie1945 · November 20

rothan117 wrote: »

I use Oakensoul on my main and all my alts. I just cannot do the bar swapping effectively anymore. Age and arthritis are slowing my keyboard skills down and having to bar swap became too much, my dps went up when I got Oakensoul due to that.

I am in the same boat as yourself, so Oakensoul has been a game changer for me.

wolfie1.0. · November 20

My one complaint about mythics and oakensoul in general is that you need to level to gear cap to use it.

preevious · November 20

C_Inside wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Admittedly, I never drink potions and never activate ultimates (use Bear with CP slot that gives health regen back). I want the less stress possible so I can manage it. It's not bad faith, it's the way I want to play, and I don't want to use skills different from what I enjoy using. I even disable buffs/debuffs icons since I don't know what they mean and they break immersion. Still I got Inkslayer solo.

Am I a bad player for a Trial? Some would say so because I'm not willing to adapt my build to the grup and those would insta-kick me. But every time I ask Veterans if with my specs I can join and clear a Normal Trial or Veteran DLC Dungeon they all say I'm good as I am. That's the type of content I aim for and for that "one button Oakensoul" is good enough. (And no, it doesn't need nerfs). Obviously I wouldn't pretend to participate in a Hard Mode Trial or DLC dungeon since I know I personally can't keep up with all the stuff on screen, and it's not a problem to me.

When it comes to soloing content, as I already said, depending on the conditions of the player Oakensoul can be a godsend. It's simply the easiest, lowest apm, most forgiving way to play solo. It's not the most efficient, but who cares? Not everyone wants to be efficient.
It's like if you stress me to teleport to you because it's quicker... Man, I'm one wayshrine away from you, may I prefer to enjoy the ride?

Like I explained, if you're not using a heavy attack build then Oakensoul is only giving you Major Brutality/Sorcery, Major Savagery/Prophecy, Minor Force, and Minor Heroism. Major Brutality/Sorcery and Savagery/Prophecy, you can get by just slotting Inferno or Grim Focus, and Tome-Bearer's Inspiration on your back bar and just using them as a bar buffer. You don't need to activate them. Minor Force you can get from Velothi permanently. And Minor Heroism you can get from Banner Bearer permanently. Although since you're not using ultimates that would be useless and you can use Berserk/Courage as your affix instead.

So explain to me why you're still using Oakensoul? What exactly is it giving you that you can't get elsewhere just as easily? All it's doing is gimping you for no reason. You can literally do at least 4-5K more dps if you switch Oakensoul for Velothi or Selene. You don't need to change anything on your build or playstyle.

And if your intention is to do solo content then Oakensoul would be even worse for your playstyle. You want to play passively but Oakensoul will force you make sure you have your heal over time effects up and to make sure you use a burst heal if you take a big hit. Does that sound easier than just slapping on Pale Order and letting it heal you passively while you focus on doing damage?

So, oakensoul gimp the dps, that's true
But it also gives you survivability with defensive buffs you don't have to source from anywhere else.
It's a kind of jack-of-all-trades mythic.

It's hard to source all the buffs it gives from anywhere else, and thus, oaken is perfect for solo play or normal group play.

Of course it's blown out of the water by specialized mythics, and by harder to manage builds, wich is only fair and natural.

Anyway, yes, I believe oakensoul is a very important mythic for this game, and is perfect for it's intended usage. I personnaly don't use it but I totally understand those who do.

Morvan · November 20

Oakensoul isn't really a great mythic, even for HA one bar builds it gets outperformed by Rakkhat's*.

edit: I mixed up mythics, mb

frogthroat · November 20

Morvan wrote: »

Oakensoul isn't really a great mythic, even for HA one bar builds it gets outperformed by Velothi.

You sure? Are you really saying that whichever damage skills you can pack on your one bar using Velothi, the 15% damage increase and 99% decrease on your heavy attacks will be more dps than what Empowered heavy attacks are on Oakensoul build?

Just a quick calculation: Let's say you have 5x skills and they do on average 5k dps each. That 5k dps from a skill would become 5.75k with Velothi. If you pack 5 of those on your 1 bar, with Velothi your advantage from skills would be 750x5 over Oakensoul. We ignore here all the damage buffs Oakensoul gives that you would not have on your Velothi HA build just to give Velothi more advantage. In this scenario, Oakensoul heavy attacks should do less than 3.75k x 1.01 = 3787 dps for a Velothi HA one bar build to come on top. Even if you would be wearing nothing else but Oakensoul and a Lightning Staff, your HA dps would be more than 3787.

Are you sure you meant Velothi one bar HA build would outperform Oakensoul HA build?

C_Inside · November 20

preevious wrote: »

So, oakensoul gimp the dps, that's true
But it also gives you survivability with defensive buffs you don't have to source from anywhere else.
It's a kind of jack-of-all-trades mythic.

The only defensive buffs it gives you are Major Resolve, Minor Protection, and Minor Aegis. If you're soloing in overland then all 3 are completely useless as overland is so easy. But if you want to talk objectively then Minor Aegis is completely useless here as it only works in group content and the 2 solo arenas. If you're trying to solo a world boss or a dragon or something and you need Major Resolve then you can very easily get it by subclassing Storm Calling and using Hurricane. If recasting a 20 second DOT is too hard then use Boundless Storm instead. That one lasts 30 seconds. Minor Protection you can get from either Banner Bearer or Contingency with the Protection affix. However, for overland and even the solo arenas I'd say Protection is complete overkill. So you don't need to use Contingency, really, unless you're trying to solo a vet DLC dungeon or something. But if that's what you're trying to do you're better of learning how to use skills like Contingency instead of Oakensoul because Oakensoul will not be nearly good enough for soloing vet DLC dungeons.

On the topic of soloing btw, Pale Order blows all of the defensive buffs that Oakensoul gives out of the water. And not just a little bit, but by a lot. And I mean A LOT. You can easily get over 10K health per second from Pale Order if you're doing around 40K dps. This isn't hard at all on a dedicated solo build. So you can't seriously be arguing that Major Resolve, Minor Protection, and Minor Aegis are worth giving up 10 flipping thousand health per second.

preevious wrote: »

It's hard to source all the buffs it gives from anywhere else, and thus, oaken is perfect for solo play or normal group play.

No it's not. Most of the buffs it gives you are either irrelevant or easily sourced by your teammates or even by yourself if soloing. If you don't believe me just open up UESP and check where you can source each buff. I've already gone over this in my previous posts in this thread.

preevious wrote: »

Anyway, yes, I believe oakensoul is a very important mythic for this game, and is perfect for it's intended usage.

Hard disagree here. It's a mythic whose purpose was to give newer players or less experienced ones an olive branch to help their dps by giving them an easier playstyle. But it completely fails at this. It doesn't make existing one bar builds easier to play. It doesn't help with dps. In fact it actively lowers it because you're wasting a gear slot on a useless gear piece.

If you want a mythic that makes it easier for less experienced players then a much better alternative is Velothi as that not only makes it so you don't need to light attack weave nearly as efficiently, but it also gives you a chunk of armor penetration, which if you're less experienced you'll probably be way under the penetration cap. And so you'll get even more damage from that penetration line, on top of the other things it gives.

Morvan · November 20

frogthroat wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

Oakensoul isn't really a great mythic, even for HA one bar builds it gets outperformed by Velothi.

You sure? Are you really saying that whichever damage skills you can pack on your one bar using Velothi, the 15% damage increase and 99% decrease on your heavy attacks will be more dps than what Empowered heavy attacks are on Oakensoul build?

Just a quick calculation: Let's say you have 5x skills and they do on average 5k dps each. That 5k dps from a skill would become 5.75k with Velothi. If you pack 5 of those on your 1 bar, with Velothi your advantage from skills would be 750x5 over Oakensoul. We ignore here all the damage buffs Oakensoul gives that you would not have on your Velothi HA build just to give Velothi more advantage. In this scenario, Oakensoul heavy attacks should do less than 3.75k x 1.01 = 3787 dps for a Velothi HA one bar build to come on top. Even if you would be wearing nothing else but Oakensoul and a Lightning Staff, your HA dps would be more than 3787.

Are you sure you meant Velothi one bar HA build would outperform Oakensoul HA build?

Yep, because most of the buffs you get from Oakensoul you can already easily cover even without it, that goes from your own skills, skills you can backbar to passively benefit either bar, potions, and also teammates if you're in a group, on Oakensoul you're pretty much capping your backbar with barely no benefits at all.

This has been exhaustively tested by other players, especially Hyperioxes who has a ton of videos covering this, even a monster set can easily outperform Oakensoul on a HA 1-bar build.

Oakensoul was just a badly advertised mythic by content creators as a magic source of easy DPS, when in reality even at its best use (HA builds), Oakensoul is far from being the best in slot.

I recommend watching this video to give you some insight, he also shows a ton of parses comparing Oakensoul with other things in his videos if you want to compare numbers.

https://youtu.be/1omCaqpoiMc

Morvan · November 20

frogthroat wrote: »

Morvan wrote: »

Oakensoul isn't really a great mythic, even for HA one bar builds it gets outperformed by Velothi.

You sure? Are you really saying that whichever damage skills you can pack on your one bar using Velothi, the 15% damage increase and 99% decrease on your heavy attacks will be more dps than what Empowered heavy attacks are on Oakensoul build?

Just a quick calculation: Let's say you have 5x skills and they do on average 5k dps each. That 5k dps from a skill would become 5.75k with Velothi. If you pack 5 of those on your 1 bar, with Velothi your advantage from skills would be 750x5 over Oakensoul. We ignore here all the damage buffs Oakensoul gives that you would not have on your Velothi HA build just to give Velothi more advantage. In this scenario, Oakensoul heavy attacks should do less than 3.75k x 1.01 = 3787 dps for a Velothi HA one bar build to come on top. Even if you would be wearing nothing else but Oakensoul and a Lightning Staff, your HA dps would be more than 3787.

Are you sure you meant Velothi one bar HA build would outperform Oakensoul HA build?

I also mixed up things, for HA 1-bar builds I meant to say Rakkhat's is better, not Velothi. As Velothi caps 99% of your heavies, so you were right to be skeptical.

Though Velothi does outperform Oakensoul 1-bar beam builds for example, anything not reliying on heavies.