How to FIX PVP!(First the problem... then a possible solution)

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

The problem with pvp in ESO, which is why people want BGs(NO I'm not suggestion BGs although I would enjoy them), is the amount of time it takes to have conflicts and the death penalty of having to run and wait forever to rejoin the battle.

A simple solution would be to add pvp fighting areas called Training/Barrack, just to call it something at ever keep, similar to current resources such as mine, farm etc. This resource however was not based on capturing a flag but instead was based on fighting an opposing forces of EQUAL SIZE and everyone could spawn back at the same training resource and continue to fight for a time period of say 10minutes, at the end of the 10 minutes the team with the most points could claim that Training resource.

So basically each "training resource" would be 10v10 or 15v15 whatever you want to make it plot of land that you fought over till the timer was over. Giving other group of challengers the ability to fight again over that resource...

SO what you think?

Before you say I just ninja inserted battlegrounds, realize there isn't anything wrong with equal fighting teams and having the ability to actually engage in pvp... so yeah I ninja inserted battlegrounds into the RvR system, and guess what cyrodiil didn't blow up its still playable and we all get to enjoy the pvp system without having to run for 15mins to rejoin a battle and dying as soon as you get there only to have to rerun to get there again..

EDIT: After a couple back and forth someone actually presented a reasonable reason why the above might not work leading me to the following conclusion.. I inserted the post below.

"Will you be upset when your quick match scenarios are invaded by premades and you can't get out of spawns or will you be in the premade doing the camping? The games with scenarios have a good fight every now and then but typically sides aren't matched well and it's pretty clear early on who will win and lose."-Response to Thread

MY RESPONSE BELOW

I guess you are right : /

As much as I would like to make this extra resource work, the problem of premades coming in to the extra resource seems to ruin the fun for those who aren't prepared to face them.

I mean you could always make it so once you won once in this resource you would not be able to claim/fight over it again till a certain cool down.

This however adds another layer of complexity.

Maybe this idea of mine isn't possible, I just would like some way to have equal # playing field. This leads me to conclude that the only possible solution would be a BG system where ranking played a role similar to WOW.

So you are match up with vs equally skilled/rank players.

At the end of the day maybe my idea isn't possible and we just need to separate AvA and BGs.

Thechemicals wrote: »

So you dont have a fast horse or use the alliance speed buff. I get back to the battles pretty fast.

Fast is subjective or is the right word relative...

Anyway what you consider fast, I might consider slow.. Especially when I was used to pvping instantly in other games I played..

I don't know maybe the other mmos ruin my pvp experience by being so instant.

xDonMega · May 2014

You just ninja inserted battlegrounds.. and not only that, the worst kind of battlegrounds.

The Arena.

Then all we will hear is how premade groups are ruining the arena... which is exactly what will happen because that's what always happens...

Because these people want to go 10v10 or whatever, they don't want to have the disadvantage of fighting against greater numbers but have no problem fighting with the advantage of greater gear and rank.

I also disagree with all ideas that take participants out of the main AvA system in Cyrodiil..

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

xDonMega wrote: »

You just ninja inserted battlegrounds.. and not only that, the worst kind of battlegrounds.

The Arena.

Then all we will hear is how premade groups are ruining the arena... which is exactly what will happen because that's what always happens...

Because these people want to go 10v10 or whatever, they don't want to have the disadvantage of fighting against greater numbers but have no problem fighting with the advantage of greater gear and rank.

I also disagree with all ideas that take participants out of the main AvA system in Cyrodiil..

Ok, I give you that, point taken.

Yet there is more to it than what you understood, this would NOT take participants out of the main AvA system in Cyrodiil it would be a part of it, just another resource to fight over with limited numbers that can enter so that it was equal numbers vs equal numbers, THIS IS NOT ARENA, you can scale it to larger numbers then just 10v10.

Secondly how else can we do something about not being able to pvp especially with how current fraction imbalances? How else do we fix that problem (running for ever to find a fight) while continuing to encourage AvA? My added resource does seem to fix that problem.

Also how is this premade groups any different from what we currently have now? You seem to think they aren't pvp groups, large zergs, that aren't premade from guilds?

Also with a time limit, the premades would come into the resource fight, then be force to leave and another group could enter to fight over it, the premade that won would just be able to continue going after other keeps like currently.. So to be clear the AvA system is still in play, this would just allow for a BG system with-in the AvA, taking nothing away from the current system.

xDonMega · May 2014

Well, I don't know..

Travel time will always be a problem because the map is so large. But i think that's necessary to keep things spread out so not everyone is right on top of each other.

I think the problem is keeping people in Cyrodiil. If there are more people, then there should be more action, and after time people will learn to spread out across the map. That I think will help reduce times between battles.

But they have to keep people in the zone, and the best way to do that is to make the xp and vet xp gains in cyrodiil the best in the game.

They could also fix forward camps so they are a bit more useful...

SBR_QuorTek · May 2014

Sorry not a fan of mini games at all... fled other places to avoid it myself... either you spend the time to level up and be competetative or stay away... in PvP if you are an opposing faction you are a target, enough said.... no minigames, we want real pvp... if don't like it go with games that support minigames, eg. SWToR, WoW and probably some others as well.

Another thing could be first to unlock pvp at level 50 if anything, then there would be less crying about how someones level 10 got owned by a vr3 or whatever...

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

SBR_QuorTek wrote: »

Sorry not a fan of mini games at all... fled other places to avoid it myself... either you spend the time to level up and be competetative or stay away... in PvP if you are an opposing faction you are a target, enough said.... no minigames, we want real pvp... if don't like it go with games that support minigames, eg. SWToR, WoW and probably some others as well.

Another thing could be first to unlock pvp at level 50 if anything, then there would be less crying about how someones level 10 got owned by a vr3 or whatever...

To be clear my issue is not the system itself its just the amount of time it takes to engage other forces, which as someone stated has to be that way so that you could actually take over a keep etc... I would just like to actually have times of short burst of pvp without having to dedicate 1hr to actually engage in a meaningful fight without all the running back and force, I also DON"T want to take any people out of the AvA.

SBR_QuorTek · May 2014

Never took me an hour to get to get into a figth of some sort, weather 50vs50 or more with the current system... we have these communication tools we can use to see where there is some stuff going on or die trying... this is a Group based game, get into a group... engage enemy... to reduce travel time have a secret camp set up for a quicker return.

Besides it would take away alot of the magic... just being like poof there.. fight...

Personally I enjoy the current system, it doesn't take to long going from point A to B or C having point B working as a decoy/take over force.... if looking for a meaningfull fight there is a few things you can do.

Also Camps exist for a reason... like a shortcut going from point A to B, C, D or E or whichever, use the ingame tools, work smarter not harder, it is not like any of the equipment you can buy cost a hell of alot whenever it get to it, rather easy to access.

1. You and your group open one of the gates that would give you a passage to a scroll, would result in some action.
2. Start attacking keypoints, such as keeps and the likes forcing your enemy to take them back and you can further than that since locked the quick travels away take the keep behind or something and then return to defend your keypoint after.
3. Arrange events.... use those communication tools we got, get grouped and organized, easy to get alot of action those ways as well.
4. Going from the the very start or the map and wanting to attack the keep the furthest away will take along time, climb up the ladder step by step and you will encounter opposing forces, they can see on the map too which is attacked.
5. All of above... if you and your group(s) keep stirring up trouble everywhere you will get attention as well, if you look for pure attention take a scroll and hold it in a keep faaaaar away from home or something... alot of ways to create events and scenarios that would get you a quick battle, weather if it is an hour long siege or defending against a siege.. craft and shape the game after your head.

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

If a type of Forward camp existed perhaps that was solely for the group you were in at an increase cost of lets say 3x what the normal one cost, perhaps this might help with the problem I'm describing (having to run back for action.)

Again, I don't have a problem with being outnumbered and zerg on, I just have a problem when that happens and it takes forever to run back to the action.

It sucks dropping a FC and not being able to use it since everyone used it up already.

I hope this thread at least highlights why people want battlegrounds for those against it.

Feidam · May 2014

Running back is the price you pay for pvp deaths and the fact that your team is not using soul gems to resurrect people or using forward camps. If people get back to the fight too quickly then there is little risk for over extending or just throwing unorganized numbers at a target. I can understand the frustration of having to run back a lot when you are losing the fight, but alternative can be equally as frustrating.

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

Feidam wrote: »

Running back is the price you pay for pvp deaths and the fact that your team is not using soul gems to resurrect people or using forward camps. If people get back to the fight too quickly then there is little risk for over extending or just throwing unorganized numbers at a target. I can understand the frustration of having to run back a lot when you are losing the fight, but alternative can be equally as frustrating.

I get it, there needs to be spacing to allow the capturing of keeps, however if you play melee the problem is even more extreme. You are on the front lines and have to deal with the sheild bashing instant cast 2k+ dam in less then 4secs crap. This compounded with 2 or 3 guys doing it at once means you DIE ALWAYS, no way to mitigate it. So unless you truly want everyone to be a caster something has to be done, to allow actual pvp to go on.

A simple solution would be what I suggested above, and this does not REMOVE anyone for AvA and actually allows people to practice pvp since they will be able to fight and fight again even after dying for a whooping 10minutes before being kicked out the resource either winning or losing the resource till another group of challengers enter. Giving everyone a chance to pvp for a good amount of time.

This resource would become the most fought over one in Cyrodiil if implemented, will be so much fun.

bitaken · May 2014

" You are on the front lines and have to deal with the sheild bashing instant cast 2k+ dam in less then 4secs crap. This compounded with 2 or 3 guys doing it at once means you DIE ALWAYS, no way to mitigate it."

If you are melee and on the front lines you should have a shield and enjoy 360 degree CC immunity - perma block with a little help from a templar - and establishing a front for your group by performing AOE root on anything that comes at you.

If you are using a two hander and just want to rip people's faces off - well you need to get behind someone with a shield.

Strictly a L2P issue

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

bitaken wrote: »

" You are on the front lines and have to deal with the sheild bashing instant cast 2k+ dam in less then 4secs crap. This compounded with 2 or 3 guys doing it at once means you DIE ALWAYS, no way to mitigate it."

If you are melee and on the front lines you should have a shield and enjoy 360 degree CC immunity - perma block with a little help from a templar - and establishing a front for your group by performing AOE root on anything that comes at you.

If you are using a two hander and just want to rip people's faces off - well you need to get behind someone with a shield.

Strictly a L2P issue

Funny.. because actually its not a L2P issue. If you didn't know sheild bash spam glitch/exploit is ruining pvp now a days read about it but thats another issue totally NOT what this thread is about..

That being said, I'm a NB, and do manage to weave in and out of combat utilizing stealth EVEN while being in a front line (see that I actually play better then you imagine, or knew was possible, you just L2P a bit better now thanks to this thread). However, other classes don't have the same luxury or tool bar set up as I do.

Even then(me escaping), if the zergs do come, my whole team gets wiped out even if I manage to escape. The problem is I want to pvp.. not stare at 100 guys roll pass my smaller group.

You can say what you want.. but the pvp set up currently isn't working in terms of having a short amount of time to pvp to actually get some pvp done(Re-read original post so you can understand what this thread is about).

That being said, you are mistaken, this is NOT a L2P issue, more like L2R issue you are having.. AGAIN TO CLARIFY FOR YOU Some people don't have hours to do pvp, we just want to get in and do some fighting without having to deal with the running back because the zerg wiped ur team before you can even get into pvp.

$Infraction$ · May 2014

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

" You are on the front lines and have to deal with the sheild bashing instant cast 2k+ dam in less then 4secs crap. This compounded with 2 or 3 guys doing it at once means you DIE ALWAYS, no way to mitigate it."

If you are melee and on the front lines you should have a shield and enjoy 360 degree CC immunity - perma block with a little help from a templar - and establishing a front for your group by performing AOE root on anything that comes at you.

If you are using a two hander and just want to rip people's faces off - well you need to get behind someone with a shield.

Strictly a L2P issue

Funny.. because actually its not a L2P issue. If you didn't know sheild bash spam glitch/exploit is ruining pvp now a days read about it but thats another issue totally NOT what this thread is about..

That being said, I'm a NB, and do manage to weave in and out of combat utilizing stealth EVEN while being in a front line (see that I actually play better then you imagine, or knew was possible, you just L2P a bit better now thanks to this thread). However, other classes don't have the same luxury or tool bar set up as I do.

Even then(me escaping), if the zergs do come, my whole team gets wiped out even if I manage to escape. The problem is I want to pvp.. not stare at 100 guys roll pass my smaller group.

You can say what you want.. but the pvp set up currently isn't working in terms of having a short amount of time to pvp to actually get some pvp done(Re-read original post so you can understand what this thread is about).

That being said, you are mistaken, this is NOT a L2P issue, more like L2R issue you are having.. AGAIN TO CLARIFY FOR YOU Some people don't have hours to do pvp, we just want to get in and do some fighting without having to deal with the running back because the zerg wiped ur team before you can even get into pvp.

Will you be upset when your quick match scenarios are invaded by premades and you can't get out of spawns or will you be in the premade doing the camping? The games with scenarios have a good fight every now and then but typically sides aren't matched well and it's pretty clear early on who will win and lose.

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

Infraction wrote: »

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

" You are on the front lines and have to deal with the sheild bashing instant cast 2k+ dam in less then 4secs crap. This compounded with 2 or 3 guys doing it at once means you DIE ALWAYS, no way to mitigate it."

If you are melee and on the front lines you should have a shield and enjoy 360 degree CC immunity - perma block with a little help from a templar - and establishing a front for your group by performing AOE root on anything that comes at you.

If you are using a two hander and just want to rip people's faces off - well you need to get behind someone with a shield.

Strictly a L2P issue

Funny.. because actually its not a L2P issue. If you didn't know sheild bash spam glitch/exploit is ruining pvp now a days read about it but thats another issue totally NOT what this thread is about..

That being said, I'm a NB, and do manage to weave in and out of combat utilizing stealth EVEN while being in a front line (see that I actually play better then you imagine, or knew was possible, you just L2P a bit better now thanks to this thread). However, other classes don't have the same luxury or tool bar set up as I do.

Even then(me escaping), if the zergs do come, my whole team gets wiped out even if I manage to escape. The problem is I want to pvp.. not stare at 100 guys roll pass my smaller group.

You can say what you want.. but the pvp set up currently isn't working in terms of having a short amount of time to pvp to actually get some pvp done(Re-read original post so you can understand what this thread is about).

That being said, you are mistaken, this is NOT a L2P issue, more like L2R issue you are having.. AGAIN TO CLARIFY FOR YOU Some people don't have hours to do pvp, we just want to get in and do some fighting without having to deal with the running back because the zerg wiped ur team before you can even get into pvp.

Will you be upset when your quick match scenarios are invaded by premades and you can't get out of spawns or will you be in the premade doing the camping? The games with scenarios have a good fight every now and then but typically sides aren't matched well and it's pretty clear early on who will win and lose.

I guess you are right : /

As much as I would like to make this extra resource work, the problem of premades coming in to ruin the party seems to ruin the fun.

I mean you could always make it so once you won once in this resource you would not be able to claim/fight over it again till a certain cool down.

This however adds another layer of complexity.

Maybe this idea of mine isn't possible, I just would like some way to have equal # playing field. This leads me to conclude that the only possible solution would be a BG system where ranking played a role similar to WOW.

So you are match up with vs equally skilled/rank players.

At the end of the day maybe my idea isn't possible and we just need to seperate AvA and BGs.

Thechemicals · May 2014

So you dont have a fast horse or use the alliance speed buff. I get back to the battles pretty fast.

jvargas150_ESO · May 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

So you dont have a fast horse or use the alliance speed buff. I get back to the battles pretty fast.

Fast is subjective or is the right word relative...

Anyway what you consider fast, I might consider slow.. Especially when I was used to pvping instantly in other games I played..

I don't know maybe the other mmos ruin my pvp experience by being so instant.

nukeyoo · May 2014

It's typical instant gratification society that plagues the world as we know it, sheeple!

Lol, but really... the travel time is an added "risk vs reward" for the PvP itself. I'd guess the majority of those complaining about it are suffering the risk more times than the reward.

I guess the new content you want will allow you to die faster?

Might I suggest getting

$Infraction$ · May 2014

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

jvargas150_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

" You are on the front lines and have to deal with the sheild bashing instant cast 2k+ dam in less then 4secs crap. This compounded with 2 or 3 guys doing it at once means you DIE ALWAYS, no way to mitigate it."

If you are melee and on the front lines you should have a shield and enjoy 360 degree CC immunity - perma block with a little help from a templar - and establishing a front for your group by performing AOE root on anything that comes at you.

If you are using a two hander and just want to rip people's faces off - well you need to get behind someone with a shield.

Strictly a L2P issue

Funny.. because actually its not a L2P issue. If you didn't know sheild bash spam glitch/exploit is ruining pvp now a days read about it but thats another issue totally NOT what this thread is about..

That being said, I'm a NB, and do manage to weave in and out of combat utilizing stealth EVEN while being in a front line (see that I actually play better then you imagine, or knew was possible, you just L2P a bit better now thanks to this thread). However, other classes don't have the same luxury or tool bar set up as I do.

Even then(me escaping), if the zergs do come, my whole team gets wiped out even if I manage to escape. The problem is I want to pvp.. not stare at 100 guys roll pass my smaller group.

You can say what you want.. but the pvp set up currently isn't working in terms of having a short amount of time to pvp to actually get some pvp done(Re-read original post so you can understand what this thread is about).

That being said, you are mistaken, this is NOT a L2P issue, more like L2R issue you are having.. AGAIN TO CLARIFY FOR YOU Some people don't have hours to do pvp, we just want to get in and do some fighting without having to deal with the running back because the zerg wiped ur team before you can even get into pvp.

Will you be upset when your quick match scenarios are invaded by premades and you can't get out of spawns or will you be in the premade doing the camping? The games with scenarios have a good fight every now and then but typically sides aren't matched well and it's pretty clear early on who will win and lose.

I guess you are right : /

As much as I would like to make this extra resource work, the problem of premades coming in to ruin the party seems to ruin the fun.

I mean you could always make it so once you won once in this resource you would not be able to claim/fight over it again till a certain cool down.

This however adds another layer of complexity.

Maybe this idea of mine isn't possible, I just would like some way to have equal # playing field. This leads me to conclude that the only possible solution would be a BG system where ranking played a role similar to WOW.

So you are match up with vs equally skilled/rank players.

At the end of the day maybe my idea isn't possible and we just need to seperate AvA and BGs.

Even in WoW you still don't end up matched against equal skilled people most of the time. One side or the other almost always ends up with way better players and its over after the first contact. Sometimes you get the occasional mythical "awesome" match. A majority of the time though someone is getting stomped, that's just the nature of pvp.