Overland Content Feedback Thread

Deserrick · November 1

shadoza wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I really want to enjoy the game again.
Maybe if we be rid of the economy part. We don't need player sales in this game.

For some of us it's a huge part of the game and enjoyment we're getting from it. Just saying.

I understand. EVE Online is built around economy and people play that game. I disagree that it is a huge part of the game. I ignore it completely and still have access to all the game features which makes it feel more like a side hustle.

Our opinions of the value aside, I could not think of another way to see and end to the hate & hoard behavior. The bad behavior makes every game day feel like black Friday.
I was playing a level 16 character on a new player island map. One or two players (both CP levels) farming an area fast-running from resource to resource, leaving the area resource bare. I waited for the resources to start spawning. Before the first one spawned, the one of the two was back collecting again. I just needed a couple plays to craft with. It took more than an hour because of these two farming the area.

Just doing the quests there were players that ran pass me and 1-hit what I was fighting. Why? Right here in these threads, I am told that players are farming, they have a right to farm, the game encourages farming . . . What about my 'right' to play the game I paid for? That seems to amount to nothing compared to those who want to farm.

Went into a dungeon to complete a quest. The dungeon was empty. Nothing to kill. I needed to collect items from the foes in the dungeon but had to wait for them to spawn. When the first foe spawned, it was a group of three. I started fighting. A CP 2700 jumped in with a AOE and all three were done. I got nothing. The dungeon took three times as long as it should have because two CP level players were making a circuit through the dungeon killing everything without even stopping. They were farming for leads.

As I stated, I just want to enjoy the game again. Farming players are an issue for those not playing that economy game because to many of those that are farming are disrespectful of other players. Not addressing these issues will lead to players who came for the story and questing to leave.

Your concerns are valid, and I am surprised to see so much pushback, especially from those who previously complained that overland was not engaging because things die too quickly who are now opposed to you raising the issue that things are dying before you can engage them.

A lot of these problems could be solved with better instancing, phasing, and spawning. Things don't have to disappear for all players because one player made it disappear for them. Respective examples are found with Skyreach, some game areas that I won't spoil, and delves spawning the bosses for new players. These solutions can be expanded to allow players to engage with enemies and collect resources without interference.

disky · November 1

Deserrick wrote: »

A lot of these problems could be solved with better instancing, phasing, and spawning. Things don't have to disappear for all players because one player made it disappear for them. Respective examples are found with Skyreach, some game areas that I won't spoil, and delves spawning the bosses for new players. These solutions can be expanded to allow players to engage with enemies and collect resources without interference.

I've heard this more than once, but I think we have to ask ourselves an important question when considering these potential solutions: when you rely upon separating players and isolating them against whatever they may not necessarily want, at what point does the game no longer exhibit the qualities of an MMO? To say nothing of the fact that this is probably going to be a more technologically intensive path to go down with regard to server, database and network load, separating players in increasingly narrow circumstances will also diminish the value of the game being an MMO in the first place. I understand that many people play this game solo, because I'm one of them, but the fact remains that we are supposed to interact with people out in the world. That's the whole point of this kind of game. Instancing and phasing are valuable in MMOs for storytelling purposes but they are used sparingly precisely due to the fact that we are supposed to be interacting with each other.

I know it sounds funny coming from someone who likes to solo, but it seems to me that you'd be happier with ESO if it were a single player game, and that's just not what it is.

Deserrick · November 1

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

A lot of these problems could be solved with better instancing, phasing, and spawning. Things don't have to disappear for all players because one player made it disappear for them. Respective examples are found with Skyreach, some game areas that I won't spoil, and delves spawning the bosses for new players. These solutions can be expanded to allow players to engage with enemies and collect resources without interference.

I've heard this more than once, but I think we have to ask ourselves an important question when considering these potential solutions: when you rely upon separating players and isolating them against whatever they may not necessarily want, at what point does the game no longer exhibit the qualities of an MMO? To say nothing of the fact that this is probably going to be a more technologically intensive path to go down with regard to server, database and network load, separating players in increasingly narrow circumstances will also diminish the value of the game being an MMO in the first place. I understand that many people play this game solo, because I'm one of them, but the fact remains that we are supposed to interact with people out in the world. That's the whole point of this kind of game. Instancing and phasing are valuable in MMOs for storytelling purposes but they are used sparingly precisely due to the fact that we are supposed to be interacting with each other.

I know it sounds funny coming from someone who likes to solo, but it seems to me that you'd be happier with ESO if it were a single player game, and that's just not what it is.

A single player game would not have the option to play in a group. Playing with other players can be optional and beneficial without being forced and detrimental.

disky · November 1

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

A lot of these problems could be solved with better instancing, phasing, and spawning. Things don't have to disappear for all players because one player made it disappear for them. Respective examples are found with Skyreach, some game areas that I won't spoil, and delves spawning the bosses for new players. These solutions can be expanded to allow players to engage with enemies and collect resources without interference.

I've heard this more than once, but I think we have to ask ourselves an important question when considering these potential solutions: when you rely upon separating players and isolating them against whatever they may not necessarily want, at what point does the game no longer exhibit the qualities of an MMO? To say nothing of the fact that this is probably going to be a more technologically intensive path to go down with regard to server, database and network load, separating players in increasingly narrow circumstances will also diminish the value of the game being an MMO in the first place. I understand that many people play this game solo, because I'm one of them, but the fact remains that we are supposed to interact with people out in the world. That's the whole point of this kind of game. Instancing and phasing are valuable in MMOs for storytelling purposes but they are used sparingly precisely due to the fact that we are supposed to be interacting with each other.

I know it sounds funny coming from someone who likes to solo, but it seems to me that you'd be happier with ESO if it were a single player game, and that's just not what it is.

A single player game would not have the option to play in a group. Playing with other players can be optional and beneficial without being forced and detrimental.

That is not what an MMO has ever been. If you're asking to play in your own instanced world with only your chosen group then you're looking for an online game with a lobby system, not an MMO. They're different categories of games. If you don't want a single player game then maybe you're looking for something closer to Elden Ring with the Seamless Co-Op mod, not an actual MMO like ESO. Not that I'm trying to dissuade you from playing ESO, but it does seem like maybe you're not interested in this genre.

I sometimes get frustrated when I miss a kill because someone got there ahead of me just like you, but I also accept that this is the nature of the game. I don't know how old you are or how many MMOs you've played, but I've played MMOs since the mid-late 90s so maybe I'm better accustomed to how this works than you are. And things can certainly change for the better, but I think it's worth re-stating that the more you divide players into their own little worlds, the less of an MMO the game actually is. You are, by definition, supposed to have the kinds of encounters and situations you describe.

spartaxoxo · November 1

This game is an MMO. That means we're all supposed to share the game world. We share the enemies. This shared space enhances the social aspects of the game allowing us to meet new people, build friends and guilds, and tackle more complex group content together. The community aspect is an important part of the genre. Trade fits into that as well by allowing mutually beneficial deals to be arranged so that players who can't spend as much time farming may still receive items that they'd like in exchange for currency.

First come, first served in overland spaces is NOT the same thing as forced grouping. Forced grouping is things like trials where you cannot complete the task by yourself. It may take longer to complete a task if you're attempting to do so at the same time as someone else, but you can still get that task done entirely alone in overland. You don't have to group with them.

This game is actually one of the most solo friendly games in the entire genre. Calling people hateful because they got to a delve before you did is disrespectful towards those players and also unrealistic about the genre of game. Players are not doing anything wrong when they kill an enemy before someone else could, especially someone who wasn't even in the area yet.

While I am sympathetic to the needs of casual players and don't mind solutions designed to benefit both parties, I'm against demonizing players for simply doing ordinary tasks that are standard gameplay for this genre of game. Neither am I interested in this game becoming Elden Ring.

Deserrick · November 1

[quote="disky;c-8385671"If you're asking to play in your own instanced world with only your chosen group then you're looking for an online game with a lobby system, not an MMO.[/quote]

I'm not.

Skyrerach is instanced, and allowing for delves to have the option of similar play would allow a player to do their quest without interference.

Some towns are phased/layered, and extending his to more areas would also allow a player to do their quest without interference.

Some enemies are triggered to spawn under certain conditions, and extending this to include more enemies and resources would allow a player to kill enemies or gather resources with greatly reduced interference.

spartaxoxo · November 1

If delves and public dungeons become solo instances and the other overworld enemies and resources are also solo instances through phasing, you remove all shared world elements from the overland. It completely kills the social aspects of the game except for help with world bosses.

That's just using the existing tech to recreate Elden Ring. I'm not knocking Elden Ring. It's a very fun fantasy game and within a fun genre of games. 10/10 game, imo. But Elden Ring is not an MMO. If I wasn't in the mood for an MMO, I wouldn't be playing ESO. I play ESO because it's an MMO and because it's Elder Scrolls. I enjoy both elements.

Also the big story set piece quests in this game are already mostly solo instances.

disky · November 1

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

If you're asking to play in your own instanced world with only your chosen group then you're looking for an online game with a lobby system, not an MMO.

I'm not.

Skyrerach is instanced, and allowing for delves to have the option of similar play would allow a player to do their quest without interference.

Some towns are phased/layered, and extending his to more areas would also allow a player to do their quest without interference.

Some enemies are triggered to spawn under certain conditions, and extending this to include more enemies and resources would allow a player to kill enemies or gather resources with greatly reduced interference.

Skyreach is one tiny part of a single zone, and as far as I'm aware it was done that way for a reason unrelated to player interference in the way you describe. Introducing that behavior to all delves would completely change their dynamic. They're supposed to be group areas for all the reasons I've already stated.

Forgive me, but making a statement in which you claim that you'd prefer to be "doing a quest without interference" or that you want to "kill enemies or gather resources without interference" really makes it sound like you don't want to be playing an MMO to me.

Deserrick · November 1

disky wrote: »

Forgive me, but making a statement in which you claim that you'd prefer to be "doing a quest without interference" or that you want to "kill enemies or gather resources without interference" really makes it sound like you don't want to be playing an MMO to me.

As I said before: "Playing with other players can be optional and beneficial without being forced and detrimental." An MMO can get rid of some of the more detrimental effects of other players while keeping the optional and beneficial ones. Consider the already existing instancing, phasing, and spawning that limits interference, some of which includes boss battles that are instanced so other players don't interfere with the fight and delve bosses that are a guaranteed spawn the fist time they are ever encountered to prevent other players from interfering with encountering it for the first time. These reduce the detrimental effects of other players while keeping the beneficial and optional ones.

disky · November 1

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Forgive me, but making a statement in which you claim that you'd prefer to be "doing a quest without interference" or that you want to "kill enemies or gather resources without interference" really makes it sound like you don't want to be playing an MMO to me.

As I said before: "Playing with other players can be optional and beneficial without being forced and detrimental." An MMO can get rid of some of the more detrimental effects of other players while keeping the optional and beneficial ones. Consider the already existing instancing, phasing, and spawning that limits interference, some of which includes boss battles that are instanced so other players don't interfere with the fight and delve bosses that are a guaranteed spawn the fist time they are ever encountered to prevent other players from interfering with encountering it for the first time. These reduce the detrimental effects of other players while keeping the beneficial and optional ones.

They reduce the "detrimental" effects, but they also remove the possibility of incidental interactions with other players which is one of the primary features of an MMO. If ZOS were to do that, it would cease to be what many consider to be an MMORPG and would end up as some other genre.

Actually, now that I think about it, the original Guild Wars comes to mind. If you've never played it, the entire overland space *was* actually instanced for a single player or a group, with only some smaller town-like areas built for gathering and coordinating. I think there is a reason that game has largely been forgotten and was never really considered a proper MMORPG. Not a bad game, but not really a true MMORPG. It's something else, and I think there's a reason why ArenaNet decided to go with a more traditional MMORPG structure for their second game, and also why it wasn't heavily mourned by players when they did. I played it quite a bit, and while my brother loved it, it never really felt right to me. The world felt empty. I think I'd have a similar experience with ESO if your proposed system were to be implemented. And for what it's worth, my brother plays GW2 now. I never really hear him lament for the old days.

shadoza · November 1

Deserrick wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I really want to enjoy the game again.
Maybe if we be rid of the economy part. We don't need player sales in this game.

For some of us it's a huge part of the game and enjoyment we're getting from it. Just saying.

I understand. EVE Online is built around economy and people play that game. I disagree that it is a huge part of the game. I ignore it completely and still have access to all the game features which makes it feel more like a side hustle.

Our opinions of the value aside, I could not think of another way to see and end to the hate & hoard behavior. The bad behavior makes every game day feel like black Friday.
I was playing a level 16 character on a new player island map. One or two players (both CP levels) farming an area fast-running from resource to resource, leaving the area resource bare. I waited for the resources to start spawning. Before the first one spawned, the one of the two was back collecting again. I just needed a couple plays to craft with. It took more than an hour because of these two farming the area.

Just doing the quests there were players that ran pass me and 1-hit what I was fighting. Why? Right here in these threads, I am told that players are farming, they have a right to farm, the game encourages farming . . . What about my 'right' to play the game I paid for? That seems to amount to nothing compared to those who want to farm.

Went into a dungeon to complete a quest. The dungeon was empty. Nothing to kill. I needed to collect items from the foes in the dungeon but had to wait for them to spawn. When the first foe spawned, it was a group of three. I started fighting. A CP 2700 jumped in with a AOE and all three were done. I got nothing. The dungeon took three times as long as it should have because two CP level players were making a circuit through the dungeon killing everything without even stopping. They were farming for leads.

As I stated, I just want to enjoy the game again. Farming players are an issue for those not playing that economy game because to many of those that are farming are disrespectful of other players. Not addressing these issues will lead to players who came for the story and questing to leave.

Your concerns are valid, and I am surprised to see so much pushback, especially from those who previously complained that overland was not engaging because things die too quickly who are now opposed to you raising the issue that things are dying before you can engage them.

A lot of these problems could be solved with better instancing, phasing, and spawning. Things don't have to disappear for all players because one player made it disappear for them. Respective examples are found with Skyreach, some game areas that I won't spoil, and delves spawning the bosses for new players. These solutions can be expanded to allow players to engage with enemies and collect resources without interference.

I have suggested instancing before now. I always get bullied in the fora for making suggestions but none managed a better solution. I think instances for overland delves, public dungeons, and quest areas is a good start for a solution. I know that instances are already used because my gaming buddy and I run into them occasionally. It can be detrimental at times because we didn't enter at the same time, we get separated by the instance. Then we have to ask ourselves which is worse, leaving an area and reentering at the same time or entering an area that has no resources or foes to interact with?

shadoza · November 1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This game is an MMO. That means we're all supposed to share the game world. We share the enemies. This shared space enhances the social aspects of the game allowing us to meet new people, build friends and guilds, and tackle more complex group content together. The community aspect is an important part of the genre. Trade fits into that as well by allowing mutually beneficial deals to be arranged so that players who can't spend as much time farming may still receive items that they'd like in exchange for currency.

First come, first served in overland spaces is NOT the same thing as forced grouping. Forced grouping is things like trials where you cannot complete the task by yourself. It may take longer to complete a task if you're attempting to do so at the same time as someone else, but you can still get that task done entirely alone in overland. You don't have to group with them.

This game is actually one of the most solo friendly games in the entire genre. Calling people hateful because they got to a delve before you did is disrespectful towards those players and also unrealistic about the genre of game. Players are not doing anything wrong when they kill an enemy before someone else could, especially someone who wasn't even in the area yet.

While I am sympathetic to the needs of casual players and don't mind solutions designed to benefit both parties, I'm against demonizing players for simply doing ordinary tasks that are standard gameplay for this genre of game. Neither am I interested in this game becoming Elden Ring.

"That means we're all supposed to share the game world. We share the enemies. This shared space enhances the social aspects of the game allowing us to meet new people," <=== But, in my post, they are not sharing anything. The player are taking EVERYTHING, even a foe I am already engaged with. The character I was playing was a level 20 necromancer. I recently purchased the class and was excited to try it out. Not fun competing with players that are a couple thousand levels above me. How many new players do you feel will come and play should they suffer competing with players thousands of levels over them just to access the game assets?
"game is actually one of the most solo friendly" <== the game really is not solo friendly. One can do the quests solo, but not always finish the story solo. Too much group / guild pushing to be considered solo-friendly, perhaps solo-tolerant would be a better term.
"Calling people hateful because they got to a delve before you did is disrespectful towards those players and also unrealistic about the genre of game."
==> No. Hateful because of their abusive posts in chat because someone said something they didn't agree with. A time a go a player left a WB in one of the DLC areas venting about the mechanics and the way others were behaving. Several people came at them with aggression. Two continued the aggression to the point of bullying them.
==> No. Hateful because the players deliberately interfere with another player's questing. Calling people out for bad behavior is not disrespectful.
<== what part of MMO says ME ME ME? First you say: we're all supposed to share, then you say: kill an enemy before someone else could Which is it? Share or FCFS?

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

SilverBride · November 1

shadoza wrote: »

I have suggested instancing before now. I always get bullied in the fora for making suggestions but none managed a better solution. I think instances for overland delves, public dungeons, and quest areas is a good start for a solution. I know that instances are already used because my gaming buddy and I run into them occasionally. It can be detrimental at times because we didn't enter at the same time, we get separated by the instance. Then we have to ask ourselves which is worse, leaving an area and reentering at the same time or entering an area that has no resources or foes to interact with?

I don't see running into other players in the world as a problem. This is why I choose to play MMOs and not single player games. I would be upset if all these were instanced because it would take away the social aspect of the game.

spartaxoxo · November 1

shadoza wrote: »

.
But, in my post, they are not sharing anything. The player are taking EVERYTHING, even a foe I am already engaged with. The character I was playing was a level 20 necromancer. I recently purchased the class and was excited to try it out. Not fun competing with players that are a couple thousand levels above me. How many new players do you feel will come and play should they suffer competing with players thousands of levels over them just to access the game assets?
"

This is already solved. Both players get the loot if they attack the same enemy, up to 12 people. One player can't take them all from you. It sounds to me like you may be blaming bad rng for quest drops with a player preventing you from getting a loot. The overland basic mob health is low enough that if you were really putting in damage before anyone else showed up, you'd get drops.

the game really is not solo friendly. One can do the quests solo, but not always finish the story solo. Too much group / guild pushing to be considered solo-friendly, perhaps solo-tolerant would be a better term

99% of the content in this game can be completed solo, even a lot of stuff designed for groups. Some MMOs don't even allow you to enter group content on your own. This one does. The regular quests are all designed to be able to be completed solo by the average player. Some players may find them too difficult through no fault of their own due to things like age, lag, disability, etc. There's always room for improvement in that regard if something in particular prevents from you completing a normal quest such as maybe they could give more time for synergies if someone has accessibility options enabled.

No. Hateful because of their abusive posts in chat because someone said something they didn't agree with. A time a go a player left a WB in one of the DLC areas venting about the mechanics and the way others were behaving. Several people came at them with aggression. Two continued the aggression to the point of bullying them.

Except you very explicitly described behaviors such as farming to be hateful in and of itself. And do so in your very next point by calling someone killing the same mobs as you had already attacked hateful. You were both in the same area and needed to kill the same enemies. They aren't deliberately interfering with your quest. Loot is shared. You can kill the same enemy and get your quest drops at the same time they get their lead. You don't want to share mobs with others and that's fine. But then you may need to wait for others to leave. It is not bad behavior to kill enemies at the same time as someone else.

what part of MMO says ME ME ME? First you say: we're all supposed to share, then you say: kill an enemy before someone else could Which is it? Share or FCFS?

I could ask the same question about wanting everything to be in solo instances.
The mobs are shared. Two players can attack a mob at the same time and get loot. If someone got to the mob before you did and it died before you got a hit. Well, that's when fcfs comes into play. You can't expect everyone to abandon content and not kill anything until they've waited around doing nothing for a long time on the off chance someone else walks by.

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

I do not agree that player trade, farming, and sharing enemies are a problem. I play MMOs specifically for social gameplay. If I wanted a single player rpg experience, I'd be playing it. I do all the time. I recently played Oblivion: Remastered and it was a lot of fun. It's the type of game I play when I don't want to see anyone else around me.

disky · November 1

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This game is an MMO. That means we're all supposed to share the game world. We share the enemies. This shared space enhances the social aspects of the game allowing us to meet new people, build friends and guilds, and tackle more complex group content together. The community aspect is an important part of the genre. Trade fits into that as well by allowing mutually beneficial deals to be arranged so that players who can't spend as much time farming may still receive items that they'd like in exchange for currency.

First come, first served in overland spaces is NOT the same thing as forced grouping. Forced grouping is things like trials where you cannot complete the task by yourself. It may take longer to complete a task if you're attempting to do so at the same time as someone else, but you can still get that task done entirely alone in overland. You don't have to group with them.

This game is actually one of the most solo friendly games in the entire genre. Calling people hateful because they got to a delve before you did is disrespectful towards those players and also unrealistic about the genre of game. Players are not doing anything wrong when they kill an enemy before someone else could, especially someone who wasn't even in the area yet.

While I am sympathetic to the needs of casual players and don't mind solutions designed to benefit both parties, I'm against demonizing players for simply doing ordinary tasks that are standard gameplay for this genre of game. Neither am I interested in this game becoming Elden Ring.

"That means we're all supposed to share the game world. We share the enemies. This shared space enhances the social aspects of the game allowing us to meet new people," <=== But, in my post, they are not sharing anything. The player are taking EVERYTHING, even a foe I am already engaged with. The character I was playing was a level 20 necromancer. I recently purchased the class and was excited to try it out. Not fun competing with players that are a couple thousand levels above me. How many new players do you feel will come and play should they suffer competing with players thousands of levels over them just to access the game assets?
"game is actually one of the most solo friendly" <== the game really is not solo friendly. One can do the quests solo, but not always finish the story solo. Too much group / guild pushing to be considered solo-friendly, perhaps solo-tolerant would be a better term.
"Calling people hateful because they got to a delve before you did is disrespectful towards those players and also unrealistic about the genre of game."
==> No. Hateful because of their abusive posts in chat because someone said something they didn't agree with. A time a go a player left a WB in one of the DLC areas venting about the mechanics and the way others were behaving. Several people came at them with aggression. Two continued the aggression to the point of bullying them.
==> No. Hateful because the players deliberately interfere with another player's questing. Calling people out for bad behavior is not disrespectful.
<== what part of MMO says ME ME ME? First you say: we're all supposed to share, then you say: kill an enemy before someone else could Which is it? Share or FCFS?

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

I can completely understand wanting to play this game alone, but when people come into an MMO, find out that there are people playing the game as intended, and then decide that not only is it not their cup of tea, but that they're going to go to the official forum and present sweeping and unrealistic "solutions" which would dramatically alter the fundamental design of the game, it just makes me believe that they wanted to play something else all along.

Those of you who have proposed these ideas are trying to shoehorn that game into this one instead, and once you're happy with the way things are, it doesn't matter that the people who enjoyed the game as it was no longer get to have a proper MMO. It's such a ridiculous idea that it's not even worth continuing the conversation. Please just accept that what you're asking for is not going to happen. It would be impractical to implement and disastrous to even announce.

mocap · November 1

Any rumors this year's last PTS will bring overland dif?

spartaxoxo · November 1

mocap wrote: »

Any rumors this year's last PTS will bring overland dif?

It's not coming this year but it's in active development. Here's the most current statements that they have made. Gina gave us an update in this thread a bit ago.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to level set, while overland difficulty is in active development, it's not something that will be ready to be released before the end of the year. We're definitely excited to share more information on it as development progresses, though!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We don't want to exclude anyone with this feature, and I'd like to reiterate the core values that Finn mentioned during the AMA:
This will be optional and no one will be forced into it

There will be varied levels of difficulty players can opt into

We will NOT be separating players

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Fair question. Caveat of "this is still in development" but part of this feature will include proper incentives to opting into more difficult content, without making it feel like you are being punished for not doing it.

shadoza · November 1

SilverBride wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

I have suggested instancing before now. I always get bullied in the fora for making suggestions but none managed a better solution. I think instances for overland delves, public dungeons, and quest areas is a good start for a solution. I know that instances are already used because my gaming buddy and I run into them occasionally. It can be detrimental at times because we didn't enter at the same time, we get separated by the instance. Then we have to ask ourselves which is worse, leaving an area and reentering at the same time or entering an area that has no resources or foes to interact with?

I don't see running into other players in the world as a problem. This is why I choose to play MMOs and not single player games. I would be upset if all these were instanced because it would take away the social aspect of the game.

Those with two thousand plus levels would not see the problem. You understand that instances doesn't mean alone. Instances restrict the number of players in that field. There will be other players.

shadoza · November 1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

.
But, in my post, they are not sharing anything. The player are taking EVERYTHING, even a foe I am already engaged with. The character I was playing was a level 20 necromancer. I recently purchased the class and was excited to try it out. Not fun competing with players that are a couple thousand levels above me. How many new players do you feel will come and play should they suffer competing with players thousands of levels over them just to access the game assets?
"

This is already solved. Both players get the loot if they attack the same enemy, up to 12 people. One player can't take them all from you. It sounds to me like you may be blaming bad rng for quest drops with a player preventing you from getting a loot. The overland basic mob health is low enough that if you were really putting in damage before anyone else showed up, you'd get drops.

the game really is not solo friendly. One can do the quests solo, but not always finish the story solo. Too much group / guild pushing to be considered solo-friendly, perhaps solo-tolerant would be a better term

99% of the content in this game can be completed solo, even a lot of stuff designed for groups. Some MMOs don't even allow you to enter group content on your own. This one does. The regular quests are all designed to be able to be completed solo by the average player. Some players may find them too difficult through no fault of their own due to things like age, lag, disability, etc. There's always room for improvement in that regard if something in particular prevents from you completing a normal quest such as maybe they could give more time for synergies if someone has accessibility options enabled.

No. Hateful because of their abusive posts in chat because someone said something they didn't agree with. A time a go a player left a WB in one of the DLC areas venting about the mechanics and the way others were behaving. Several people came at them with aggression. Two continued the aggression to the point of bullying them.

Except you very explicitly described behaviors such as farming to be hateful in and of itself. And do so in your very next point by calling someone killing the same mobs as you had already attacked hateful. You were both in the same area and needed to kill the same enemies. They aren't deliberately interfering with your quest. Loot is shared. You can kill the same enemy and get your quest drops at the same time they get their lead. You don't want to share mobs with others and that's fine. But then you may need to wait for others to leave. It is not bad behavior to kill enemies at the same time as someone else.

what part of MMO says ME ME ME? First you say: we're all supposed to share, then you say: kill an enemy before someone else could Which is it? Share or FCFS?

I could ask the same question about wanting everything to be in solo instances.
The mobs are shared. Two players can attack a mob at the same time and get loot. If someone got to the mob before you did and it died before you got a hit. Well, that's when fcfs comes into play. You can't expect everyone to abandon content and not kill anything until they've waited around doing nothing for a long time on the off chance someone else walks by.

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

I do not agree that player trade, farming, and sharing enemies are a problem. I play MMOs specifically for social gameplay. If I wanted a single player rpg experience, I'd be playing it. I do all the time. I recently played Oblivion: Remastered and it was a lot of fun. It's the type of game I play when I don't want to see anyone else around me.

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

Deserrick · November 1

.

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Forgive me, but making a statement in which you claim that you'd prefer to be "doing a quest without interference" or that you want to "kill enemies or gather resources without interference" really makes it sound like you don't want to be playing an MMO to me.

As I said before: "Playing with other players can be optional and beneficial without being forced and detrimental." An MMO can get rid of some of the more detrimental effects of other players while keeping the optional and beneficial ones. Consider the already existing instancing, phasing, and spawning that limits interference, some of which includes boss battles that are instanced so other players don't interfere with the fight and delve bosses that are a guaranteed spawn the fist time they are ever encountered to prevent other players from interfering with encountering it for the first time. These reduce the detrimental effects of other players while keeping the beneficial and optional ones.

If ZOS were to do that, it would cease to be what many consider to be an MMORPG and would end up as some other genre.

Perhaps that would happen if they instanced everything and players never encountered anyone else besides a premade group made in a lobby or a small hub town.

However, if delves were able to be instanced, resources and enemies were able to be spawned like some delve bosses can be, spawning requirements were widened, and if quest areas were phased, that would still leave a large portion of the maps open for randomly meeting other players.

spartaxoxo · November 1

Deserrick wrote: »

.

disky wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

disky wrote: »

Forgive me, but making a statement in which you claim that you'd prefer to be "doing a quest without interference" or that you want to "kill enemies or gather resources without interference" really makes it sound like you don't want to be playing an MMO to me.

As I said before: "Playing with other players can be optional and beneficial without being forced and detrimental." An MMO can get rid of some of the more detrimental effects of other players while keeping the optional and beneficial ones. Consider the already existing instancing, phasing, and spawning that limits interference, some of which includes boss battles that are instanced so other players don't interfere with the fight and delve bosses that are a guaranteed spawn the fist time they are ever encountered to prevent other players from interfering with encountering it for the first time. These reduce the detrimental effects of other players while keeping the beneficial and optional ones.

If ZOS were to do that, it would cease to be what many consider to be an MMORPG and would end up as some other genre.

Perhaps that would happen if they instanced everything and players never encountered anyone else besides a premade group made in a lobby or a small hub town.

However, if delves were able to be instanced, resources and enemies were able to be spawned like some delve bosses can be, spawning requirements were widened, and if quest areas were phased, that would still leave a large portion of the maps open for randomly meeting other players.

It would basically only leave towns for people to meet each other. Even world bosses have quest associated with them. I'd be fine with only delves and public dungeons being instanced but not fine with the entire overland map being phased. I play MMOs in part for the social experience.

disky · November 1

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

.
But, in my post, they are not sharing anything. The player are taking EVERYTHING, even a foe I am already engaged with. The character I was playing was a level 20 necromancer. I recently purchased the class and was excited to try it out. Not fun competing with players that are a couple thousand levels above me. How many new players do you feel will come and play should they suffer competing with players thousands of levels over them just to access the game assets?
"

This is already solved. Both players get the loot if they attack the same enemy, up to 12 people. One player can't take them all from you. It sounds to me like you may be blaming bad rng for quest drops with a player preventing you from getting a loot. The overland basic mob health is low enough that if you were really putting in damage before anyone else showed up, you'd get drops.

the game really is not solo friendly. One can do the quests solo, but not always finish the story solo. Too much group / guild pushing to be considered solo-friendly, perhaps solo-tolerant would be a better term

99% of the content in this game can be completed solo, even a lot of stuff designed for groups. Some MMOs don't even allow you to enter group content on your own. This one does. The regular quests are all designed to be able to be completed solo by the average player. Some players may find them too difficult through no fault of their own due to things like age, lag, disability, etc. There's always room for improvement in that regard if something in particular prevents from you completing a normal quest such as maybe they could give more time for synergies if someone has accessibility options enabled.

No. Hateful because of their abusive posts in chat because someone said something they didn't agree with. A time a go a player left a WB in one of the DLC areas venting about the mechanics and the way others were behaving. Several people came at them with aggression. Two continued the aggression to the point of bullying them.

Except you very explicitly described behaviors such as farming to be hateful in and of itself. And do so in your very next point by calling someone killing the same mobs as you had already attacked hateful. You were both in the same area and needed to kill the same enemies. They aren't deliberately interfering with your quest. Loot is shared. You can kill the same enemy and get your quest drops at the same time they get their lead. You don't want to share mobs with others and that's fine. But then you may need to wait for others to leave. It is not bad behavior to kill enemies at the same time as someone else.

what part of MMO says ME ME ME? First you say: we're all supposed to share, then you say: kill an enemy before someone else could Which is it? Share or FCFS?

I could ask the same question about wanting everything to be in solo instances.
The mobs are shared. Two players can attack a mob at the same time and get loot. If someone got to the mob before you did and it died before you got a hit. Well, that's when fcfs comes into play. You can't expect everyone to abandon content and not kill anything until they've waited around doing nothing for a long time on the off chance someone else walks by.

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

I do not agree that player trade, farming, and sharing enemies are a problem. I play MMOs specifically for social gameplay. If I wanted a single player rpg experience, I'd be playing it. I do all the time. I recently played Oblivion: Remastered and it was a lot of fun. It's the type of game I play when I don't want to see anyone else around me.

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

Consider alternative solutions. The idea you two are presenting is ridiculous.

twisttop138 · 12:09AM

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

.
But, in my post, they are not sharing anything. The player are taking EVERYTHING, even a foe I am already engaged with. The character I was playing was a level 20 necromancer. I recently purchased the class and was excited to try it out. Not fun competing with players that are a couple thousand levels above me. How many new players do you feel will come and play should they suffer competing with players thousands of levels over them just to access the game assets?
"

This is already solved. Both players get the loot if they attack the same enemy, up to 12 people. One player can't take them all from you. It sounds to me like you may be blaming bad rng for quest drops with a player preventing you from getting a loot. The overland basic mob health is low enough that if you were really putting in damage before anyone else showed up, you'd get drops.

the game really is not solo friendly. One can do the quests solo, but not always finish the story solo. Too much group / guild pushing to be considered solo-friendly, perhaps solo-tolerant would be a better term

99% of the content in this game can be completed solo, even a lot of stuff designed for groups. Some MMOs don't even allow you to enter group content on your own. This one does. The regular quests are all designed to be able to be completed solo by the average player. Some players may find them too difficult through no fault of their own due to things like age, lag, disability, etc. There's always room for improvement in that regard if something in particular prevents from you completing a normal quest such as maybe they could give more time for synergies if someone has accessibility options enabled.

No. Hateful because of their abusive posts in chat because someone said something they didn't agree with. A time a go a player left a WB in one of the DLC areas venting about the mechanics and the way others were behaving. Several people came at them with aggression. Two continued the aggression to the point of bullying them.

Except you very explicitly described behaviors such as farming to be hateful in and of itself. And do so in your very next point by calling someone killing the same mobs as you had already attacked hateful. You were both in the same area and needed to kill the same enemies. They aren't deliberately interfering with your quest. Loot is shared. You can kill the same enemy and get your quest drops at the same time they get their lead. You don't want to share mobs with others and that's fine. But then you may need to wait for others to leave. It is not bad behavior to kill enemies at the same time as someone else.

what part of MMO says ME ME ME? First you say: we're all supposed to share, then you say: kill an enemy before someone else could Which is it? Share or FCFS?

I could ask the same question about wanting everything to be in solo instances.
The mobs are shared. Two players can attack a mob at the same time and get loot. If someone got to the mob before you did and it died before you got a hit. Well, that's when fcfs comes into play. You can't expect everyone to abandon content and not kill anything until they've waited around doing nothing for a long time on the off chance someone else walks by.

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

I do not agree that player trade, farming, and sharing enemies are a problem. I play MMOs specifically for social gameplay. If I wanted a single player rpg experience, I'd be playing it. I do all the time. I recently played Oblivion: Remastered and it was a lot of fun. It's the type of game I play when I don't want to see anyone else around me.

Excuses do no resolve problems. Let us focus on the resolution.

Consider alternative solutions. The idea you two are presenting is ridiculous.

It's not even worth trying man. You can give long reasoned arguments and you'll just be told you're not listening and you're bullying. Just ignore and move on. You know we're not going anything wrong and so do most people in this thread.

SilverBride · 12:22AM

They have already stated that they aren't going to separate the players. Turning what are now public spaces into private instances will create separation.