Combat Animation Memory Reduction

Ecgberht_confused · October 29

I really don't understand the decision to let this go live! People can put up with reduced new content, an underwhelming and grindy 'Historical' event, and no new exciting sets. But how are we to cope with every skill in the game feeling broken?

Jaimeh · October 29

React wrote: »

This is insane, honestly. The fact that U48 is probably THE smallest update in the history of this game and has broken so much is extremely discouraging. Abilities not dealing damage, passives failing to work, issues with blocking, animations completely trashed across the board, multiple PVE encounters bugged mechanically.

Was the entire QA department let go? I cannot fathom how a patch like this could even be pushed live when many of these issues were brought up on the PTS.

All of the above, and also the fact that they still haven't communicated anything in this post is very concerning.

IncultaWolf · October 29

lostineternity wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

However valuable this may be performance wise, it is just too much of a sacrifice for the RPG aspect in the current form. All the outfits and skill styles don't matter if the character is just jittering and convulsing on screen. The fact that it actually introduced more problems than it solved from a game play perspective just screams roll back at this point.

It's not valuable at all.
I've been working on server-client architecture for ages, and I can assure you that animations are handled on the client side.
Every animation that is triggered by your own actions is only client-side; animations that are responses to enemy attacks or something like that are triggered from the BE side but only with an "id", animation files are stored and performed on the client.

It's actually easy to check. Everyone has at least once encountered a situation when they lost connection to the server, but the client doesn’t disconnect instantly, and you can run/attack/cast things with all proper animations for a minute or so, but the world is static and wouldn’t react (no connection). It’s proof that animations are being handled on the client.

If ZOS tried to improve server-side performance by destroying animations, that means their architecture is an ancient, unoptimized mess.

Personally, I think this is an attempt to cover poor optimization on past-gen consoles and very old PCs, or, for example, to improve client-side performance on devices like the Steam Deck.

You're correct, this was done to free up memory on last gen consoles to make room for the new feature coming next year.

Gabriel_H · October 29

Yudo wrote: »

The problematic part marked in orange, first increase delay in animation gap, followed by a shift of the cast-to-animation window by half a second. This is not normal and very hard to play. Missing weave often. Because you no longer get the visual confirmation that you have cast the skill from the consecutive weave. So far this only happens with elemental weapon for me with a lighting staff (I don't know if that matters). But is my fav skill and for me personally is a break of my build

So, we come to the crux of the matter. I find weaving easier and more intuative with the new animations.

Gabriel_H · October 29

lostineternity wrote: »

It's not valuable at all.
I've been working on server-client architecture for ages, and I can assure you that animations are handled on the client side.
Every animation that is triggered by your own actions is only client-side; animations that are responses to enemy attacks or something like that are triggered from the BE side but only with an "id", animation files are stored and performed on the client.

It's actually easy to check. Everyone has at least once encountered a situation when they lost connection to the server, but the client doesn’t disconnect instantly, and you can run/attack/cast things with all proper animations for a minute or so, but the world is static and wouldn’t react (no connection). It’s proof that animations are being handled on the client.

If ZOS tried to improve server-side performance by destroying animations, that means their architecture is an ancient, unoptimized mess.

Personally, I think this is an attempt to cover poor optimization on past-gen consoles and very old PCs, or, for example, to improve client-side performance on devices like the Steam Deck.

Where did they say the changes were server-side?

By reducing the impact on the game's memory, the file is processed faster, meaning the command stack is processed faster.

colossalvoids · October 29

Jaimeh wrote: »

React wrote: »

This is insane, honestly. The fact that U48 is probably THE smallest update in the history of this game and has broken so much is extremely discouraging. Abilities not dealing damage, passives failing to work, issues with blocking, animations completely trashed across the board, multiple PVE encounters bugged mechanically.

Was the entire QA department let go? I cannot fathom how a patch like this could even be pushed live when many of these issues were brought up on the PTS.

All of the above, and also the fact that they still haven't communicated anything in this post is very concerning.

To be fair Kevin has responded to my comment in another related thread yesterday (?) so they're at the very least looking into it, idk about this thread or the original one from the PTS, but hopefully so as I've tagged him previously to no avail.

Radiate77 · October 29

Just pull a Destiny 1 and separate the players who won’t update their consoles or PCs stuck at whatever update the support ended… then make a second version with continuous updates only available to people who can play it.

Morvan · October 29

Radiate77 wrote: »

Just pull a Destiny 1 and separate the players who won’t update their consoles or PCs stuck at whatever update the support ended… then make a second version with continuous updates only available to people who can play it.

They will have to do that eventually, old consoles already compose a very small playerbase, they need to start thinking what they're losing on downgrading the game just to support them.

Not even just downgrading, but think about the amount of possible features we lost just because the old gen couldn't handle it.

Radiate77 · October 30

Morvan wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Just pull a Destiny 1 and separate the players who won’t update their consoles or PCs stuck at whatever update the support ended… then make a second version with continuous updates only available to people who can play it.

They will have to do that eventually, old consoles already compose a very small playerbase, they need to start thinking what they're losing on downgrading the game just to support them.

Not even just downgrading, but think about the amount of possible features we lost just because the old gen couldn't handle it.

If they can’t afford a “new” console, how are they affording a monthly sub or interacting with the cash shop? This is a no brainer.

tomofhyrule · October 30

I definitely think it’s time for older hardware, including last-gen consoles, to be sunset.

Technology does advance and players need to keep up with the times. Generally, a console generation lifetime is around 8 years, so we’re even coming to the end of the XBX|S and PS5 era by now. There are rumbles of next-gen already. Those companies stopped production on last-gen consoles years ago. And for a PC alternative, Windows just ended support for Win10 unless you pay to get one more year.

ESO is only getting bigger and bigger, and the fact that so many things, from new animations for new Classes to more housing slots, can’t be added because of hardware limitations is only making players frustrated. How many people are leaving now because WoW is getting a much better version of housing, or because they feel that each year is releasing less and less due to space issues.

I know money is tight, and due to the pandemic and then the NFT bubble and then the inflation crisis and then the AI boom and then the tariffs, costs aren’t coming down. It’ll be a tough sell because there are totally people who choose not to upgrade and will leave the game instead. But even now we hear that people who update their hardware do tend to see improvements in the game (a major thing when performance is a constant complaint). Besides, just because something isn’t officially supported doesn’t mean it’ll not work - ESO ended support for Win 7 a few years back and I think it was only now with U48 that was actively unplayable on Win 7. ZOS could officially end support for XB1 and PS4 and then in the same sentence drop doubled furnishing limits and a new Class with all new animations, and I’m sure the loss of players because of the unsupported hardware would be offset by the return of a lot of people who are tired of waiting for improvements.

Ecgberht_confused · October 30

So there are two distinct things that happen now after the update. They're not always happening but they're frequent enough to happen every gaming session:

- Abilities and light attacks firing but without animation, or with a much delayed animation. This is the more frequent bug.

- Abilities and light attacks doing the full animation but not actually firing or doing any damage. This seems to happen to specific targets at a time, but not everything. I was stuck fighting the patrolling horror in Temple District in IC where only my Vateshran ice DOT was ticking. Everything else (venom skull and merciless resolve) were showing the full animation but not actually doing damage (and skulls counter not updating). This was only happening to the boss but not the trash and xyvkin and so on. I had to die for this to be fixed

StihlReign · October 30

Radiate77 wrote: »

Just pull a Destiny 1 and separate the players who won’t update their consoles or PCs stuck at whatever update the support ended… then make a second version with continuous updates only available to people who can play it.

Whoa...Absolutely not. End support for all non-manufacturer supported Windows and Console versions. This is a no brainer. ZOS makes software and if you want the latest features and best performance you shouldn't try to run it on outdated, unsecure non-supported systems.

I expect bug fixes, patches and updates from ZOS, every gamer here does. We shouldn't be held back because our fellow gamers want to play an updated game on an outdated system.

Sotha_Sil · October 30

Can we get an official response about this please? I don't see the weird weapon stances, the LA & HA damage issues and the animations part of the known issues list! Is this how it's supposed to be ? Is it taken into account by ZOS? This is a game breaking issue and it requires updates @ZOS_Kevin

valenwood_vegan · October 30

Yeah I really can't believe this went live.

And hmm, where is our new management team that was recently so interested in player feedback and communication? It's ok though, I'm sure soon we can be told about how they can't wait to tell us about all the great things coming!

LukosCreyden · October 30

If it is as bad as it sounds, then its gonna feel like U35 Jabs and Flurry all over again, but with the entire game. It sounds awful and if it is really that bad, I cannot believe this made it to live.

@ZOS_Kevin will this problem be getting fixed? I cannot play the game if the entirety of combat looks like a glitchy mess. I want to play the game! Am on console and I am scared that this update will completely ruin my fun and put me back into "I'll unsub and check back in a few months" mode.

Tra_Lalan · October 31

Please revert this change. Combat looks bad and feels very bad right now.

LA look like they are no longer performed, instead a picture of my character hiting the target apears when I click on target. This looks very bad (especialy on Lighting staffs).
Skills look clumsy most of the time, and I get a feeling that my character is not synced to what is happening during combat (if this change was supposed to improve the smooth combat expierience, it has made just the opposite).
This feels more like reading a comic book than playing a video game.

Also to be mentioned, in the first person perspective (which I use from time to time) it looks even worse.

We ve heard about "players first" yet someone still decided to put this into the game, I really don't understand how it is possible having in mind all the feedback from PTS.

colossalvoids · October 31

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Yeah I really can't believe this went live.

And hmm, where is our new management team that was recently so interested in player feedback and communication? It's ok though, I'm sure soon we can be told about how they can't wait to tell us about all the great things coming!

Honestly can't wait for an end of the year letter going about how they brought people together, how the pass was doing amazingly, people loved the content and how many QoL's were pushed live, like this one. Just to confirm that the new approach/team members are just the same as old ones.

Ironic indeed as it's all going right after yet another promises of clear and fast communication. Just from another people, that's all.

Pepegrillos · October 31

My guess? they are either trying stuff out, or just shipped a fragment of a bigger project.

You can read the hints here, point 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1iemzy0/comment/mfzryot/?context=3

React · October 31

Pepegrillos wrote: »

My guess? they are either trying stuff out, or just shipped a fragment of a bigger project.

You can read the hints here, point 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1iemzy0/comment/mfzryot/?context=3

Wow, I hadn't seen this particular comment.

Who would have guessed the combat would begin collapsing on itself as soon as they started trying to "improve" it...

Destai · October 31

Pepegrillos wrote: »

My guess? they are either trying stuff out, or just shipped a fragment of a bigger project.

You can read the hints here, point 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1iemzy0/comment/mfzryot/?context=3

I would be very interested in seeing their internal list!

LukosCreyden · November 1

If this is a "fragment of a bigger project" are we to expect that the game will be broken and largely unplayable until U49 or U50? Unacceptable. This needs fixing ASAP.

Estin · November 1

Pepegrillos wrote: »

My guess? they are either trying stuff out, or just shipped a fragment of a bigger project.

You can read the hints here, point 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1iemzy0/comment/mfzryot/?context=3

You don't try stuff out on live. That's what the PTS is for. And if it's bad in PTS, you don't plug your ears and push it to live thinking all the feedback was maliciously false for the sake of trolling. This is why nobody uses the PTS anymore. If you don't want feedback, simply get rid of the PTS in its entirety. That will definitely save on server costs.

Kelenan7368 · November 1

[snip]

I can't bar swap and can't even cast 1 ability! I totally glitch out and can only run around like a *** until someone kills me! Such a wonderful game experience!

And don't get me started on getting randomly kicked out of the game during a pvp match only to fight to log back in to be banned from pvp for 30 minutes during my few 2 hours i get to play during the day!

And I tell myself, I am paying for this crap!

PTS warned you the direction was breaking the game! Content creators posted videos! [snip]
[edited for bashing]

Toanis · November 1

There are also some targetting changes. Seems like sometimes interactive stuff gets selected instead of the boss, causing single target abilities to be greyed out. Somehow I even managed to target myself as if I were another player.

StihlReign · November 1

smh...we may as well settle in. This is the new Grim Focus Permaglow. That started in 2023 and took years to acknowledge and fix. PTS also noted Grim Focus would be poorly received and it was broken. They haven't even consolidated the threads around this issue they're ignoring it so hard, plus based on the dev comments on PTS, they probably consider this fixed. ZOS probably working on 2026 May/June/July exciting stuff for us.

Pepegrillos · November 1

To people saying this can't be a fragment of a bigger project, or that you don't try stuff on live, I'd like to remind you all of the homogenization and hybridization projects.

Onomog · November 1

Pepegrillos wrote: »

To people saying this can't be a fragment of a bigger project, or that you don't try stuff on live, I'd like to remind you all of the homogenization and hybridization projects.

And I'd like to remind you of how incomplete, unfinished, or broken those projects are.

NoticeMeArkay · November 1

In addition to the ...."new" animations. Is anybody else having trouble with skills not firing anymore since the last update?
In my case it doesn't even seem to matter which skill IU chose specifically, it's that the first mob can be attacked and killed as usually and the second one doesn't get any damage. Neither through light attacks nor skills firing.
Removed skill styles, subclassing, tried everything I could think of. The issue persists and its only happening since the last patch. I cannot join any form of combat anymore. Not even overland (!)

Pepegrillos · November 1

Onomog wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

To people saying this can't be a fragment of a bigger project, or that you don't try stuff on live, I'd like to remind you all of the homogenization and hybridization projects.

And I'd like to remind you of how incomplete, unfinished, or broken those projects are.

And they did it anyway. I wouldn't expect anything different.

Grafahel · November 1

I haven't noticed any difference in light or heavy attack animations, only that sometimes skills don't seem to work. They fire but never hit the enemy, seen it mostly with Force Pulse and Endless Fury. Doesn't happen often though.
But if we're aiming for memory reduction I vote for slashing the cringy lightshows, visual effects and unnecessary explosions from mounts.