Share Your Thoughts on ESO's Classes with Us

Jaimeh · September 28

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Dax_Draconis wrote: »

Loving my Nightblade that's subclassed with Arcanist and Templar. I haven't had this much fun with my NB in years. The addition of Fatecarver to my stamblade makes the class feel powerful again in more difficult content, and without having to get sweaty doing a complicated rotation. Please don't ruin it now.

How many NB skills are you actively using in that build? Do you just have them there to passively buff the arc skills? Because then it's not really a NB build (and it's one of my issues with subclassing right now: the assassination line has become a passive buff to flail and the arc/templar beams).

Incap, Killer's, and Relentless from the Assassination skill line. I still use my ultimate and switch from using the irrationally hated Arc beam to Killer's Blade when it is time to execute. So, no it isn't a pure NB build, it is a subclassed NB build. But I do pretty much the same on my pure NB but with a more complicated and less effective rotation because I don't have access to anything like the Arc beam with it.

I use KB and merciless, but merciless is just there for the passive buff, I'm not firing the bow as I find it's a loss in an arc beam build, which then means basically only KB is actively used (and that's only in low execute), so that doesn't feel like I'm playing a NB. In fact I'd do better with templar beam in execute, but I keep KB so I can have at least one NB skill that I can actively use.

lydra · September 28

What even is a class at this point? Why is the survey focused on something that doesn't even exist now? Wouldn't it be more helpful to discuss each SKILL LINE and which ones are worth running and which ones aren't?

Right now, I'm routinely seeing Green Balance, Radiating Light, Siphoning, Curative Runeforms and even Daedric Summoning and Grave Lord being requested for healers for optimized end game trials groups. Maybe it would be helpful to do a survey to understand why no one wants to run Living Death or whatever the healer line is supposed to be from DK?

No idea what the DPS or Tank gaps are as a heal main but I'm guessing there's plenty of skill lines no one is using in pretty much any content.

I won't lie, the questions in the survery are written in a way that is completely non-sensical in a post multi classing world that it feels incredibly out of touch and worrysome.

ceruulean · September 29

I wrote an overview about class balance in U45 shortly before subclassing was announced:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSwQNVZDZygsWfQJ0YmRDtowAav1UcRYRV16Aqva6hBpa5iLmR-yPk8cln8zN7GJbvTQcw0ofZuYEtr/pub

If you notice, most of the classes were relatively balanced except for arcanist and nightblade. Arc was overperforming in every role, and nightblade basically sucked at most things.

disky · September 29

I did the survey, but I just want to say it here as a counter to all the negativity - I don't think there is any issue with class identity. I don't personally care about what makes a class, but I also disagree that classes feel any different or less effective after subclassing. I still play pure classes and subclassed characters and I have fun with both. I'm sure there are high-level players who have specific gripes about certain changes but I'm sure those issues will be addressed individually at some point. Overall, the classes feel fine to me.

I feel like it's important to state, even though I'm sure the community team already knows this very well, that the forums are not the voice of the community at-large. Yes, we have people here who present good points and suggestions, but I don't think this is one of those times. I just think a lot of people are concerned about a big change that needs a bit of time in open testing before all the kinks are fully ironed out.

diamondo · September 29

Well this is the issue sub/multi classing has thrown the game into chaos. This was just thrown into players without from I could see much thought given.

The systems worked well before, classes worked well each class had strengths and weaknesses.That you could exploit I loved I my dot builds and templars were my worst enemies to go up against. Now everyone has picked the best of all worlds. Cyro is full of super tanks that gank. Or rolling ball groups with endless heals and cleanses

I really really hope you can just role it back completely you’re never gonna get the balance you had prior with multi classing.

The closest you will get to this is restrictions and the lines people take- dps, tank, heal lines.
So if you keep your dps line you can only take a tank line from another class then just a heal line from the other class
You will end up with players taking the same skill lines but at least it’ll stop this endless high crit damage meta

For the better players in game that take three dps lines don’t appear to notice any drop off in defence from what I can see.

But sort out storm calling line as from I can see that covers all bases.

Dax_Draconis · September 30

ceruulean wrote: »

I wrote an overview about class balance in U45 shortly before subclassing was announced:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSwQNVZDZygsWfQJ0YmRDtowAav1UcRYRV16Aqva6hBpa5iLmR-yPk8cln8zN7GJbvTQcw0ofZuYEtr/pub

If you notice, most of the classes were relatively balanced except for arcanist and nightblade. Arc was overperforming in every role, and nightblade basically sucked at most things.

Yes exactly. Which is why I am loving subclassing. It has made my NB useful again and easier to play in more difficult PvE content.

But if the devs want to make pure NB a top meta for damage dealing in PvE then I am all for that too. Doubt they will though.

Apollosipod · September 30

I would have honestly been more on board with subclassing had ZOS put in the effort to make some form of quest to "earn" access to those subclassed skill trees. Something that also better refined or have some lore to the classes which already exist in-game. But we found a lady who had a book that said, "You can be a sorcerer, Harry" and hot damn, now I'm a sorcerer.

I wasn't one of the naysayers for subclassing and enjoy switching things up, but I can't help but make many of my classes feel incredibly similarly because so many old skills need to be have their effectiveness buffed.

DoofusMax · September 30

I hope ZOS gets some useful data from the survey, but I'm absolutely unclear on what data it's expected to elicit from respondents. As a bit of background, surveys and survey methodology were a major component of my master's, so I'm reasonably competent at sussing out what kind of data a question or question series are trying to get at. The class questions, however, just leave me scratching my head (I use Head and Shoulders, so it's not dandruff).

All classes can tank, heal, and DPS depending on which loadout the character uses. If the intent was to gather player perceptions of which classes are better at tanking, healing, or DPS'ing, there are more efficient methods of getting at those perceptions which will generate less statistical noise than the question sequences in the survey and one of those was used in at least one different question (drag-and-drop rankings). The various "I have the necessary tools..." questions could generate some useful insights into how the skills advisor might be improved, though. I believe the general consensus is that the five hand-holding builds in the skills advisor are, shall we say, "less than optimal" for a lot of content and could really use some updating to bring them more in line with current build guides.

It's good to see developer interest in the broader player perceptions. Forum discussions are somewhat akin to echo chambers, so data gathered outside those will come much closer to matching up with what the broader player base thinks.

tomofhyrule · September 30

Here’s another interesting factoid I want to point out.

The survey asked about how the strengths and weaknesses of each class felt without Subclassing, and then asked if Subclassing was able to improve their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses.

That implies that it is intended that the parent classes each have their own strengths and weaknesses and that the point of Subclassing is to give players a way to make up for the inherent weaknesses of their Class.

This is telling me that the idea would be similar to multiclassing in games like D&D: a pure class would be able to be very strong but also very focused, but they can trade that strength to get more versatility. This goes against the role-based “stacking 3x DPS lines should be super stronger than a pure class” idea, unless that build also comes with the durability of wet toilet paper.

Truth be told, I like that concept and would hope they lean into it for balance when they eventually get around to it. But what I don’t agree with is the idea of turning one character into a “I have all the strengths and none of the weaknesses because I’m so perfect!” like we have right now.

Bo0137 · September 30

I have absolutely no problem if class identity is broken or missing. I also don't care about what the meta is. Subclassing is the best update ESO ever had and I'm having a blast playing it!

Finedaible · September 30

Some of those questions were quite vague and ambiguous. They could have used a lot more context about what they were trying to ask us about.

DenverRalphy · September 30

My own personal issue with the survey was that for each class of which you opt to answer questions, it asks about class identity "before subclassing", but it fails to ask the same questions for and about "after subclassing".

For a survey that purports to encompass class identity, it's ignoring half of the equation on that factor.

Joy_Division · September 30

It's nice and all that ZOS is trying to get how we feel about our classes.

But I can help but think it's insane to ask us how effective we feel about the actual class without sub-classing.

Of course a pure class feels bad and just isn't competitive. Hasn't this been made clear over the past 6 months?

ZOS_Kevin · October 1

Hi everyone! We've seen some questions about our recent classes survey, and we wanted to clarify a few things around our goals for this one.

As we look to the future, a couple of our primary goals are to improve overall build viability and also address longstanding concerns and feedback related to class identity in ESO. We are in the process of putting together our long-term vision and plan for this work to share with you. Your direct experiences and feedback on ESO's classes and builds are important considerations for us as we work through this planning. It's our goal to share all of these elements together, so you have a better picture of where we are heading.

Part of the process we're going through is this classes survey, which is intended to help us gather additional input for upcoming build viability, combat feel, class identity, and some other things we're interested in learning more about. It is intentionally high level.

We hear you and understand that many of you would like to see adjustments to various abilities, and have questions about balance, build viability, hybridization, and even class relevancy in light of subclassing. Those questions and requests are absolutely a consideration and part of this work as well, but this high level planning must be completed first and this survey is just one step toward that.

While it wasn't reflected in-depth in this survey, we are considering the impact subclassing and scribing have on build viability, class identity, and overall balance. We also do recognize there are longstanding desires for boosts/bonuses for those who wish to play a pure class.

Thank you all for raising questions, and for filling out the survey.

thepandalore · October 2

The "whichever resource is higher" ability cost condition that you introduced with the Arcanist is a great tool that would solve nearly all the unfinished hybridization work in the classes' native dps kits while at the same time opening up a great deal of room for alternative role abilities to improve the pure class support kits. It's a way to introduce buff/debuff parity so that sorc, templar, and nightblade tanks, for example, are capable of bringing a comparable number of debuffs and buffs as the other classes currently do.

The utility brought by Assassination boils down to crit chance gain. Supplying other classes with alternative sources of comparable crit chance, with a potential non-mathematical opportunity cost when used in combination with Assassination, would drastically improve pure class damage. Provided skill trees like Shadow or Animal Companions are sufficiently improved so as to be comparable in output with Aedric Spear, Herald of the Tome, or Ardent Flame, there would be less "felt need" to spec multiclass builds specifically into those trees in order to produce meaningful damage.

Destai · October 2

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As we look to the future, a couple of our primary goals are to improve overall build viability and also address longstanding concerns and feedback related to class identity in ESO. We are in the process of putting together our long-term vision and plan for this work to share with you.

While you work on the long-term vision communication, can you at least share your goals with us? I think the sooner we can see how you guys are thinking, the better. It will be an absolute disaster if we wait all this time only to find out some of the goals and the plans to realize to them are less than desirable. We don't want another U35 or U46, or another series of comments like those about consumables and hybridization from the AUA.

If you guys spend all this time putting together a plan and people immediately poke holes in it - are you prepared to adjust them? Honest question. Not responding or seeing this message creates the perception that you probably won't.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Part of the process we're going through is this classes survey, which is intended to help us gather additional input for upcoming build viability, combat feel, class identity, and some other things we're interested in learning more about. It is intentionally high level.

When will you guys be diving into details? Are we months, weeks, or years out? It's concerning we're still at this high-level place when you guys have a lot of feedback already. The survey was nice, I appreciate the effort you guys are doing here, but it feels like you guys need to catch up on the existing feedback too. Is it just too hard to aggregate?

What do you hope to capture in surveys that hasn't been expressed here, Reddit, or by influential content creators like SkinnyCheeks or Hyperioxes?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We hear you and understand that many of you would like to see adjustments to various abilities, and have questions about balance, build viability, hybridization, and even class relevancy in light of subclassing. Those questions and requests are absolutely a consideration and part of this work as well, but this high level planning must be completed first and this survey is just one step toward that.

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Once this high-level planning is completed, can we get an updated listed of your endeavors? Taking hybridization as an example - what work remains and when's it happening?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

While it wasn't reflected in-depth in this survey, we are considering the impact subclassing and scribing have on build viability, class identity, and overall balance. We also do recognize there are longstanding desires for boosts/bonuses for those who wish to play a pure class.

Taking a step back - why wasn't subclassing a part of this survey? I don't know the value in talking about classes in a vacuum when subclassing has completely disrupted how they're used. I think you absolutely have to look at classes through a subclassed lens.

Anyways, I really appreciate the effort you guys are putting into. I just hope it manifests into something over next year and the game's in a better place.

ShawnF · October 2

Just noting here that I started that survey in good faith, but the questions quickly made no sense.

"When you think of a nightblade, does it have a unique playstyle?"

No, because nightblades are stealthy, and now wardens can be invisible on demand.

No, because nightblades stack critical chance to assassinate, and now arcanists run soul harvest.

No, because nightblades have unique healing skills that siphon from enemies, and now every healer does the same. Maybe? I really don't heal.

Same response for every class. Can it be a good DPS? Sure, just add skill lines from classes that have DPS skills. Can it be a good tank? Absolutely, just steal from those classes.

Your survey sounded like it was created before subclassing and released afterwards. I love crafting builds and I also loved having 10 characters who were each running different classes for different purposes and different playstyle. Now they're all boring. I can still create fun builds, but if I don't give them a beam and a bunch of crit from other class lines, they're not really going to accomplish anything in life. If you want class identity, class passives should be stronger when you keep more skill lines from the same class. Building a pure nightblade should make all nightblade skills stronger. A nightblade with an arcanist beam should have a weaker beam than a pure arcanist.

Also while we're at it, make my primary class impact the skills from subclassed skill lines. Nightblades should be reading different beam books. Make it a stream of throwing knives doing bleed damage. DKs read books about fire and poison, their beam should be something you'd see in scalecaller. Wardens, frost beam? Swarm of bees? Sharks with frickin laser beams?

You see where I'm going here. Make primary classes have meaning again, because in the current setup classes don't matter - unless you're running class mastery scribing skills, and who does that now that banner got whacked?

Kendaric · October 2

Did ESO ever have class identity? I don't think so and I don't think it's really needed or even fitting for ESO.

Can someone clarify what exactly class identity is supposed to mean in the context of ESO? Is it just: do all abilities fit into the theme for the class or something else being like "best" for a certain combat role (tank/support/DPS)?

If you truly want some identity, it would have been better to create classes in the way you made the races, i.e. an all passive skill line for each class that would provide bonuses to certain abilities. That way you'd have created identity.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · October 2

I quit with the survey when none of the questions had a response that I don't play or have no interest in a style. As an example I don't subclass and have no interest in it. The same goes for tanking.

SerafinaWaterstar · October 2

@ShawnF

I disagree; it was asking about class style without subclassing - that was obvious, as there were subsequent questions about subclassing.

Necrotech_Master · October 2

did the survey with my thoughts

gave my honest opinion on each class as ive played all of them, both in the pure state and with subclassing

for me, some classes in pure state are hot garbage

NB has the hardest time with commonly sourced buffs that other classes have (major brutality/sorcery requires hitting a target with a melee range skill, major resolve has significantly shorter duration compared to other classes unless), and i frequently found myself basically wanting other skill lines to solve the NB issues (which with subclassing i was able to do that and get a character that i feel plays a lot better)

necromancer in my opinion is still NOT a real necromancer, the pet summons are hot garbage and none of them are "perma summons" like sorc, necromancer to me means raising undead army, which our necromancer basically doesnt do at all and just uses this wonky corpse mechanic for too many of its skills

ive enjoyed subclassing as its been a way for me to "fix" or experiment with characters i felt like had serious flaws with their base skill lines to try out different combos that for me feel like they work better

"class identity" in my opinion doesnt really matter too much, at best i think its that a characters base skill lines should follow a similar theme so someone who doesnt want to subclass can play to that, but if you want to enjoy the game you should theme your character the way you want to play it

Finedaible · October 2

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi everyone! We've seen some questions about our recent classes survey, and we wanted to clarify a few things around our goals for this one.

As we look to the future, a couple of our primary goals are to improve overall build viability and also address longstanding concerns and feedback related to class identity in ESO. We are in the process of putting together our long-term vision and plan for this work to share with you. Your direct experiences and feedback on ESO's classes and builds are important considerations for us as we work through this planning. It's our goal to share all of these elements together, so you have a better picture of where we are heading.

Part of the process we're going through is this classes survey, which is intended to help us gather additional input for upcoming build viability, combat feel, class identity, and some other things we're interested in learning more about. It is intentionally high level.

We hear you and understand that many of you would like to see adjustments to various abilities, and have questions about balance, build viability, hybridization, and even class relevancy in light of subclassing. Those questions and requests are absolutely a consideration and part of this work as well, but this high level planning must be completed first and this survey is just one step toward that.

While it wasn't reflected in-depth in this survey, we are considering the impact subclassing and scribing have on build viability, class identity, and overall balance. We also do recognize there are longstanding desires for boosts/bonuses for those who wish to play a pure class.

Thank you all for raising questions, and for filling out the survey.

I hope that when the time comes to share this vision and these goals, that it will not simply be another corporate-written article with vague high level explanations since many important details have often been left out of those in the past. I know I certainly appreciate the frankness that you have had with us recently, Kevin, and I hope the developers can open up about their challenges so that we may get a better picture of why things are the way they are. There's no clarity if everything is always worded vaguely without specifics.

One thing I see many developers from other studios do on their streams is to read back major pain-points or concerns that their community has and talk about it to their viewers. It is not taboo to address these things live (at least I hope it isn't at Zenimax ?). Even if those developers cannot do anything about a pain-point, addressing it on stream at least lets their community know their feedback has been heard, that it is on their radar, and is being worked on or not. Most communication from ZoS has typically been a one-way street with little to no feedback from the developers themselves, except for maybe a few cryptic off-hand messages per year. For example, suddenly discovering from that recent AUA on Reddit that hybridization of alchemy/provisioning has essentially been halted for years without any work came as a very unpleasant surprise to everyone who thought it was still coming. Some surprise major changes can blindside the community as well.

There will be negative criticism, any community has it, and I've been guilty of being a bit too harsh sometimes as well. I think it is important to realize though, that many in the community are just as invested into the Elder Scrolls IP as the developers are. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, as the saying goes.

ShawnF · October 2

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

I disagree; it was asking about class style without subclassing - that was obvious, as there were subsequent questions about subclassing.

@SerafinaWaterstar That may have been the intent, but it didn't actually ask that, did it? I'm not being snarky here, I would go check but I can't return to my (unfinished) survey because it says I'm trying to take it twice.

I'm going based on my memory of the survey, and what I remember is being asked "do you feel like the nightblade has a unique identity compared to other classes" and... my answer is no, because everyone's playing other classes but running nightblade skills. Nightblade isn't an identity anymore, it's just a classification for three essentially unrelated skill lines.

Anyway there may have been questions about subclassing after getting through the rest, but I paused due to real life and couldn't return to the survey, so all I have is those initial vibes where it felt like the survey creators were asking questions about last year's game. I would have had different answers if they'd said "Thinking of a world without subclassing..." but our characters don't live in that world anymore, so I tried to answer based on today's game, where no class has anything uniquely its own.

diamondo · October 2

@ZOS_Kevin thank you for some acknowledgment on pure class builds and it’s very positive to hear that this is being given some serious consideration as to what can be done to bring them back into competitive play especially with relation to PVP

thepandalore · October 2

The Nova ult could do with some attention. Its damage is relatively low compared to other ults, but that could be balanced by a gravitational pull and stun within an AOE. Additionally, Major Maim's utility as an Ult debuff is suffering from Major Maim's ubiquity elsewhere. There are other major buffs or debuffs that are rare enough to gain a little more exposure and powerful enough to be worth of Nova's ult cost.

Off the cuff options might include:

Major Courage (exceptionally templar themed)
Major Brittle (thematically suits an AOE pull)
Major Fracture (undeveloped)
Major Hindrance (undeveloped)

DarkStrifeYT · October 3

If you want to know from my perspective of what classes can pure class with their toolkit here we go:

Dragon Knight - no
Sorcerer - no
Night blade - yes
Templar - yes
Warden - yes
Necromancer - no
Arcanist - yes

This means that these classes can utilize their whole class for everything or almost everything in a respective role and not need other skill lines to perform better as a necessity.

Dragon Knight - Lacks major healing outside of ults or costly class heals that underperforms. Requires vigor (stam) or restoration staff (magicka)

Sorc - Lacks proper spamable and major consistent heal, can heal with pets but that requires both ability bars to give up a slot and unless you build around crits you will be using a lot of resources to heal for a small amount.

Necromancer - Huge loss of dps and sustain with its changes and is very uncomfortable to play especially with the constant micromanagement. Also it's spamables are easily outclassed by again weapon abilities. Makes it less of a necromancer with less use.

Now for those that can utilize its class to the fullest.

Night blade - Night blade has all the toolkits it needs to survive and fits its theme extremely well. Also the fact it utilizes stealth is a huge bonus.

Templar - has legitimately everything needed and is nearly perfect. A few complaints on animations from the community and the nova ult needs a bit of a damage buff, maybe one of the morphs can have a self synergy?

Warden - As of right now the warden can do insanely well with its class toolkit without requiring external skills.

Arcanist - Extremely well made class and from what I have seen there is very little complaints. I'd personally say the arcanists is in the most perfect spot it can be in at this time.

However there are roles with classes that require subclassing.

Dragon Knight healer - requires subclassing to actually heal

Sorc healer - same as above

Templar tank - requires subclassing to enhance but not mandatory

Nightblade - healer and tank, requires subclassing to get the most out of it

Warden - not mandatory but can exchange the winters embrace with Templars healing line for more enhancement

Necromancer - requires subclassing to exist

The only one thats role that does not require subclassing to enhance or to make a role better is arcanist. It has an insane toolkit for all of its roles.

These should be looked into especially when its mandatory to subclass in order to perform a role better.

Kendaric · October 3

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

---snip---

However there are roles with classes that require subclassing.

Dragon Knight healer - requires subclassing to actually heal

Sorc healer - same as above

They can be healers by using the restoration staff as it was always intended. They aren't really meant to be able to heal on their own without relying on other skill lines (rest staff, guild skills, vigor), except for self-heals.

Templar tank - requires subclassing to enhance but not mandatory

Nightblade - healer and tank, requires subclassing to get the most out of it

Warden - not mandatory but can exchange the winters embrace with Templars healing line for more enhancement

So subclassing isn't really required for them to be viable in most content, probably with the exception of endgame progression trials. Are they better if they subclass? Yes, but they are hardly unplayable.

Necromancer - requires subclassing to exist

Necromancer needs a complete rework. It should have permanent pets like the sorceror to be more in line with what people want from necromancer.

The only one thats role that does not require subclassing to enhance or to make a role better is arcanist. It has an insane toolkit for all of its roles.

Agreed, the arcanist is quite a bit too good.

DarkStrifeYT · October 3

Kendaric wrote: »

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

---snip---

However there are roles with classes that require subclassing.

Dragon Knight healer - requires subclassing to actually heal

Sorc healer - same as above

They can be healers by using the restoration staff as it was always intended. They aren't really meant to be able to heal on their own without relying on other skill lines (rest staff, guild skills, vigor), except for self-heals.

Templar tank - requires subclassing to enhance but not mandatory

Nightblade - healer and tank, requires subclassing to get the most out of it

Warden - not mandatory but can exchange the winters embrace with Templars healing line for more enhancement

So subclassing isn't really required for them to be viable in most content, probably with the exception of endgame progression trials. Are they better if they subclass? Yes, but they are hardly unplayable.

Necromancer - requires subclassing to exist

Necromancer needs a complete rework. It should have permanent pets like the sorceror to be more in line with what people want from necromancer.

The only one thats role that does not require subclassing to enhance or to make a role better is arcanist. It has an insane toolkit for all of its roles.

Agreed, the arcanist is quite a bit too good.

1) The restoration staff can be used but they were asking for class specifics information. Like if you could only use class abilities and passives.

2) Subclassing enhancements helps with not just abilities but also passives. They can do it without but it can be better. So Upgrades people Upgrades.

3) I'm glad I'm not the only one to see necromancer that way

4) Too Good...

shadoza · October 3

I don't mind the subclassing. Taking the skill chosen to level 50 before you can change it seems a little too long to be stuck in a bad choice.
I do not understand all the hate for Fatecarver. I tried the arcanist class and found it to be just O'kay. Nothing exciting. I did not find it to be a end-all damage cannon. It was boring and did average DPS by my tests.
I have tried all but one of the classes and keep going back to the Assassin class. After playing for decades, two swords have become my passion. That's why I keep going back to the Assassin class.
I do will that folks stop calling for its nerf. It has been nerffed many times over the years. It is not a great damage dealer. It is not a great healer. It is a useless tank. What is good at is serving the players who want a solo survival build. It does a reasonable job at damage dealing and a reason able job at self-healing. If your tank style is fast feet, dodge rolls, and rapid in and out attacks, it does okay for tanking.
I do enjoy creating new characters and trying different combinations. Maybe if a change is needed, remove the classes all together and just let the player choose what skills to use on their own. No player should be a slave to internet research and min/maxing.

Gabriel_H · October 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

That implies that it is intended that the parent classes each have their own strengths and weaknesses and that the point of Subclassing is to give players a way to make up for the inherent weaknesses of their Class.

It's a little more complex than that. ZOS have even said as much themselves.

“We know the Subclassing system will infuse power into the player community. For example, players can drop their tank and support skill lines for more damage-dealing abilities and passives,” notes Day. “However, there is a trade-off—by taking all damage skill lines, you are more reliant on your team for support healing, shielding, and protection. Also, there is no desire to reduce the effectiveness of pure classes and their ability to complete content, and overall, the system should make the content more accessible to all players.”

In other words, DDs got to address their weaknesses, while tanks and healers are pushed into buff machines.