AvidNecro wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

As a content creator I often think of topics to discuss either on stream or in the next video but I thought this would be more suitable on here.

With the huge power creep added with subclassing, I would like to propose an idea around battle spirit. What if battle spirit only allowed crafted sets in PvP. This would allow easier balance to be done on both the dev side and with how the current meta is. Not to mention giving some much needed attention to the hundreds of sets that are being neglected in the game. I think all these other sets that are farmed are better suited for harder continent like PVE and would eliminate the nonsense that happens on a daily basis in PvP.

Also… stop cross healing in PvP all together, or put a cap on it. Only people in your group up to a max of 6 players, and the more players you have to heal the less healing they receive. Creates a diminishing return.

Join me in the graveyard on Xbox NA.

I’m not so sure how I feel about “craft only” sets in PvP, simply because one of the key elements of ESO is build diversity. I don’t know that we want to do anything that necessarily starts killing theory crafting, moreover, I think what we need with Subclassing is simply to address the most impactful elements in PvP.

Consider these suggestions:

1) Healing: Adjust critical healing so that heals taken on a players SELF only crit at a max of 25% rather than scaling off of the existing crit modifier. This would ONLY apply to heals a player casts that affect THEMSELVES and only when Battle Spirit is active. A healing player who is outwardly healing members of their group would continue to scale critical healing as normal, however, they would only be subject to the 25% on themselves. This would still enable strong group healing but would also re-introduce the aspect of strategy. Groups would need to be more attentive to their healers as nobody would be ablet to self heal for sky high values based off their own high crit modifiers.

2) Critical Resistance: Add a named Major & Minor buff that specifically addresses critical resistances. Similarly to how Major & Minor Resolve affect base resistances these buffs would affect attackers crit modifiers by reducing them by more significant amounts. This is essential because it's become more commonplace in PvP for players to achieve critical damage modifiers so high above the soft cap that even with 7 pieces of Impen & Rally Cry that an attacker is still at or near the soft cap; which means players are allocating significant resources to protect themselves which are having near zero affect. Nobody should be committing to 7 gear traits plus a full 5 piece gear set, specifically to address crit damage and then still taking the full brunt of someone's crit.

Leave sets alone. Some of them have some significant benefits and procs but even those have factors that need a player to build or play into them. Balorgh is a common one that can benefit a build that’s low on pen and damage for intermittent offensive bursts. Zaan is another propeller choice but requires consistent proximity and PvP has always had a mobility focus.

I don’t think sets are the major downfall in PvP in the subclassing environment. In playing and testing we’re seeing a consistent over-use of skills and mechanics and if we look at why those are being used we can trace their popularity to crit factors. If we start by simply adjusting the crit & crit healing for self factors and then step back and look at the impacts I think we start to see more strategy oriented combat rather than the spam oriented we have now.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I would point out that they tried no cross-healing years ago, and people hated it. It completely killed solo play as a healer, among other issues.

+1, as someone who never parties and just enters skirmishes as a solo player that idea is absolutely silly. you should not be required to group in order to make the most out of your spells.

I also hate the idea of killing build variety for PvP since build variety is one of ESO's strong points and why it's such a good game to PvP in imo.

NxJoeyD wrote: »

AvidNecro wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

As a content creator I often think of topics to discuss either on stream or in the next video but I thought this would be more suitable on here.

With the huge power creep added with subclassing, I would like to propose an idea around battle spirit. What if battle spirit only allowed crafted sets in PvP. This would allow easier balance to be done on both the dev side and with how the current meta is. Not to mention giving some much needed attention to the hundreds of sets that are being neglected in the game. I think all these other sets that are farmed are better suited for harder continent like PVE and would eliminate the nonsense that happens on a daily basis in PvP.

Also… stop cross healing in PvP all together, or put a cap on it. Only people in your group up to a max of 6 players, and the more players you have to heal the less healing they receive. Creates a diminishing return.

Join me in the graveyard on Xbox NA.

I’m not so sure how I feel about “craft only” sets in PvP, simply because one of the key elements of ESO is build diversity. I don’t know that we want to do anything that necessarily starts killing theory crafting, moreover, I think what we need with Subclassing is simply to address the most impactful elements in PvP.

Consider these suggestions:

1) Healing: Adjust critical healing so that heals taken on a players SELF only crit at a max of 25% rather than scaling off of the existing crit modifier. This would ONLY apply to heals a player casts that affect THEMSELVES and only when Battle Spirit is active. A healing player who is outwardly healing members of their group would continue to scale critical healing as normal, however, they would only be subject to the 25% on themselves. This would still enable strong group healing but would also re-introduce the aspect of strategy. Groups would need to be more attentive to their healers as nobody would be ablet to self heal for sky high values based off their own high crit modifiers.

2) Critical Resistance: Add a named Major & Minor buff that specifically addresses critical resistances. Similarly to how Major & Minor Resolve affect base resistances these buffs would affect attackers crit modifiers by reducing them by more significant amounts. This is essential because it's become more commonplace in PvP for players to achieve critical damage modifiers so high above the soft cap that even with 7 pieces of Impen & Rally Cry that an attacker is still at or near the soft cap; which means players are allocating significant resources to protect themselves which are having near zero affect. Nobody should be committing to 7 gear traits plus a full 5 piece gear set, specifically to address crit damage and then still taking the full brunt of someone's crit.

Leave sets alone. Some of them have some significant benefits and procs but even those have factors that need a player to build or play into them. Balorgh is a common one that can benefit a build that’s low on pen and damage for intermittent offensive bursts. Zaan is another propeller choice but requires consistent proximity and PvP has always had a mobility focus.

I don’t think sets are the major downfall in PvP in the subclassing environment. In playing and testing we’re seeing a consistent over-use of skills and mechanics and if we look at why those are being used we can trace their popularity to crit factors. If we start by simply adjusting the crit & crit healing for self factors and then step back and look at the impacts I think we start to see more strategy oriented combat rather than the spam oriented we have now.

Nerfing critical selfhealing would barely affect groups with multiple healers as the healers can still heal each other.
It would affect players who are not getting healed by other and have only their selfheal the most which is almost everyone not in a premade.
Your suggestion isn’t balancing groups but making them even stronger relative to others.

Iriidius wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

AvidNecro wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

As a content creator I often think of topics to discuss either on stream or in the next video but I thought this would be more suitable on here.

With the huge power creep added with subclassing, I would like to propose an idea around battle spirit. What if battle spirit only allowed crafted sets in PvP. This would allow easier balance to be done on both the dev side and with how the current meta is. Not to mention giving some much needed attention to the hundreds of sets that are being neglected in the game. I think all these other sets that are farmed are better suited for harder continent like PVE and would eliminate the nonsense that happens on a daily basis in PvP.

Also… stop cross healing in PvP all together, or put a cap on it. Only people in your group up to a max of 6 players, and the more players you have to heal the less healing they receive. Creates a diminishing return.

Join me in the graveyard on Xbox NA.

I’m not so sure how I feel about “craft only” sets in PvP, simply because one of the key elements of ESO is build diversity. I don’t know that we want to do anything that necessarily starts killing theory crafting, moreover, I think what we need with Subclassing is simply to address the most impactful elements in PvP.

Consider these suggestions:

1) Healing: Adjust critical healing so that heals taken on a players SELF only crit at a max of 25% rather than scaling off of the existing crit modifier. This would ONLY apply to heals a player casts that affect THEMSELVES and only when Battle Spirit is active. A healing player who is outwardly healing members of their group would continue to scale critical healing as normal, however, they would only be subject to the 25% on themselves. This would still enable strong group healing but would also re-introduce the aspect of strategy. Groups would need to be more attentive to their healers as nobody would be ablet to self heal for sky high values based off their own high crit modifiers.

2) Critical Resistance: Add a named Major & Minor buff that specifically addresses critical resistances. Similarly to how Major & Minor Resolve affect base resistances these buffs would affect attackers crit modifiers by reducing them by more significant amounts. This is essential because it's become more commonplace in PvP for players to achieve critical damage modifiers so high above the soft cap that even with 7 pieces of Impen & Rally Cry that an attacker is still at or near the soft cap; which means players are allocating significant resources to protect themselves which are having near zero affect. Nobody should be committing to 7 gear traits plus a full 5 piece gear set, specifically to address crit damage and then still taking the full brunt of someone's crit.

Leave sets alone. Some of them have some significant benefits and procs but even those have factors that need a player to build or play into them. Balorgh is a common one that can benefit a build that’s low on pen and damage for intermittent offensive bursts. Zaan is another propeller choice but requires consistent proximity and PvP has always had a mobility focus.

I don’t think sets are the major downfall in PvP in the subclassing environment. In playing and testing we’re seeing a consistent over-use of skills and mechanics and if we look at why those are being used we can trace their popularity to crit factors. If we start by simply adjusting the crit & crit healing for self factors and then step back and look at the impacts I think we start to see more strategy oriented combat rather than the spam oriented we have now.

Nerfing critical selfhealing would barely affect groups with multiple healers as the healers can still heal each other.
It would affect players who are not getting healed by other and have only their selfheal the most which is almost everyone not in a premade.
Your suggestion isn’t balancing groups but making them even stronger relative to others.

A group with multiple healers SHOULD be able to dish out heavy heals; that would make sense. But, those healers would still have to pay attention to one another because they wouldn’t be able to critically heal themselves, only each other & their teammates. This still leaves them open to getting chunked by high DD focus.

PvP is a lot of group play; so no, I’m not trying to kill groups. That’s the whole point of PvP. What I’m suggesting getting rid of are fully self sustaining builds that only exist because the Devs included to much outgoing critical and very little resistance.

Balancing groups, themselves, would be MRR, which, I would agree with adjustments to that as well; but first & foremost I’d like to address the most broken mechanics in PvP.

If you’re engaging in group PvP content then you’re expected to play as a group. You’re not joining an 8 team individual BG lobby or Cyrodill campaign to just run off & do your own thing. If you do that and don’t coordinate with your team then, yes, you’re going to lose. Any team based contest works that way.

Iriidius wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Iriidius wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

AvidNecro wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

As a content creator I often think of topics to discuss either on stream or in the next video but I thought this would be more suitable on here.

With the huge power creep added with subclassing, I would like to propose an idea around battle spirit. What if battle spirit only allowed crafted sets in PvP. This would allow easier balance to be done on both the dev side and with how the current meta is. Not to mention giving some much needed attention to the hundreds of sets that are being neglected in the game. I think all these other sets that are farmed are better suited for harder continent like PVE and would eliminate the nonsense that happens on a daily basis in PvP.

Also… stop cross healing in PvP all together, or put a cap on it. Only people in your group up to a max of 6 players, and the more players you have to heal the less healing they receive. Creates a diminishing return.

Join me in the graveyard on Xbox NA.

I’m not so sure how I feel about “craft only” sets in PvP, simply because one of the key elements of ESO is build diversity. I don’t know that we want to do anything that necessarily starts killing theory crafting, moreover, I think what we need with Subclassing is simply to address the most impactful elements in PvP.

Consider these suggestions:

1) Healing: Adjust critical healing so that heals taken on a players SELF only crit at a max of 25% rather than scaling off of the existing crit modifier. This would ONLY apply to heals a player casts that affect THEMSELVES and only when Battle Spirit is active. A healing player who is outwardly healing members of their group would continue to scale critical healing as normal, however, they would only be subject to the 25% on themselves. This would still enable strong group healing but would also re-introduce the aspect of strategy. Groups would need to be more attentive to their healers as nobody would be ablet to self heal for sky high values based off their own high crit modifiers.

2) Critical Resistance: Add a named Major & Minor buff that specifically addresses critical resistances. Similarly to how Major & Minor Resolve affect base resistances these buffs would affect attackers crit modifiers by reducing them by more significant amounts. This is essential because it's become more commonplace in PvP for players to achieve critical damage modifiers so high above the soft cap that even with 7 pieces of Impen & Rally Cry that an attacker is still at or near the soft cap; which means players are allocating significant resources to protect themselves which are having near zero affect. Nobody should be committing to 7 gear traits plus a full 5 piece gear set, specifically to address crit damage and then still taking the full brunt of someone's crit.

Leave sets alone. Some of them have some significant benefits and procs but even those have factors that need a player to build or play into them. Balorgh is a common one that can benefit a build that’s low on pen and damage for intermittent offensive bursts. Zaan is another propeller choice but requires consistent proximity and PvP has always had a mobility focus.

I don’t think sets are the major downfall in PvP in the subclassing environment. In playing and testing we’re seeing a consistent over-use of skills and mechanics and if we look at why those are being used we can trace their popularity to crit factors. If we start by simply adjusting the crit & crit healing for self factors and then step back and look at the impacts I think we start to see more strategy oriented combat rather than the spam oriented we have now.

Nerfing critical selfhealing would barely affect groups with multiple healers as the healers can still heal each other.
It would affect players who are not getting healed by other and have only their selfheal the most which is almost everyone not in a premade.
Your suggestion isn’t balancing groups but making them even stronger relative to others.

A group with multiple healers SHOULD be able to dish out heavy heals; that would make sense. But, those healers would still have to pay attention to one another because they wouldn’t be able to critically heal themselves, only each other & their teammates. This still leaves them open to getting chunked by high DD focus.

PvP is a lot of group play; so no, I’m not trying to kill groups. That’s the whole point of PvP. What I’m suggesting getting rid of are fully self sustaining builds that only exist because the Devs included to much outgoing critical and very little resistance.

Balancing groups, themselves, would be MRR, which, I would agree with adjustments to that as well; but first & foremost I’d like to address the most broken mechanics in PvP.

If you’re engaging in group PvP content then you’re expected to play as a group. You’re not joining an 8 team individual BG lobby or Cyrodill campaign to just run off & do your own thing. If you do that and don’t coordinate with your team then, yes, you’re going to lose. Any team based contest works that way.

A group with multiple healers is able to dish out heavy heals already so much that it’s one of the most complained problems and reason why many players quit so they really don’t need an indirect buff by nerfing selfhealing.

If you run of and do your own thing and don’t coordinate with your team you also loose without nerfing selfhealing so there is noneed to make them loose more.

The whole point of PvP is to fight other player which can be alone, in small or in large group with or without coordination. Large coordinated groups already dominate and make the game unfun for every other playstile and you want to nerf other playstiles even more so they quit.

Not only soloplayers use fully self sustaining builds but also many groups that can’t rely on always the same players with coordinated builds and nobody else playing at the same time. And some players always playing in the same group still prefer self sustaining builds.

You are trying to kill solobuild but presenting it as nerfing ballgroups by only talking about the negligible selhealing nerf healers in group receive and not at all about the nerf to all their (self)healing soloplayers receive. That fools players to think it is an attempt to make ballgroups less overperforming so the players support it when the opposite is the case and they are cutting the branch they sit on.

Nobody is saying someone can’t or shouldn’t make a build that has self sustain; what I’m saying is that no build should have access to self healing that mitigates all damage in one shot due to crit scaling.

Most PvP is team play. With the exception of Deathmatch most PvP environment have some objective that encourages each player to work with their team. A player who goes off and does their own thing, separate from their team is likely to suffer and that’s the point of team play. Players who want to solo run can jump into the IC to find more solo oriented content with a PvP element but even in those cases not having access to an excessive self heal isn’t build breaking. You can solo play PvP content without a mechanic to heal to full in a single burst; that reinforces combat strategy versus spams.

Self healing should have some form of ceiling otherwise why have healer roles? We could just eliminate that now and just run tanks & DDs.

Solo players who make solo builds can still slot self healing and still build into durability but healing should carry the same logic as damage whereby GCD is a pacing factor. Nobody in PvP should be able to one-tap another player and conversely no player should be able to one-tap heal themselves to 100%; that makes the risk vs reward prospect of PvP combat go right out the window.

A 25% hard cap on self healing is more than fair; it still allows for a strong heal as the base value will scale off the players stats, as normal, plus; with subclassing players have access to more healing mechanics than before.