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The Major Class Overhaul Coming: Why I think Buffing is better than Nerfing

Blackrim
Blackrim
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With Update 47’s enhanced subclassing system now live, class power has increasingly concentrated around a handful of “meta” class-subclass combinations in both PvP and PvE, sidelining many other builds and harming build diversity. Instead of weakening those dominant combos through broad nerfs, it would be far more constructive for developers to examine which class-subclass pairings top-tier players are gravitating toward, then raise the baseline by buffing the under-utilized classes. This preserves creative experimentation, ensures all classes remain viable, and prevents any subclass from becoming dead content simply because it did not make the meta.

A striking example of this imbalance is the Animal Companion subclass, which has become almost ubiquitous in PvP due to its exceptional utility and sustain. Numerous players have noted that Animal Companion is a consistent part of meta combinations—often tied to regeneration and burst sustain that other lines simply cannot match.

Instead of nerfing this subclass and penalizing players who enjoy it, a smarter approach would be to elevate other subclasses to the same competitive level. That preserves Animal Companion’s strength but also opens up space for fresh, thematic options to flourish.

There is some data behind this concept as well. Blizzard did this in WoW. It was received positively. I think buffing from here on out would certainly align with the game goals of creating a universal 'play how you want' experience for all players.
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    Sure, why not. Subclassing has turned power creep into a power deluge in PVE. Lets turn it up to 11. Looking forward to soloing vMOL. Who needs runners when I can parse 100,000,000 DPS.
  • Blackrim
    Blackrim
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    Sure, why not. Subclassing has turned power creep into a power deluge in PVE. Lets turn it up to 11. Looking forward to soloing vMOL. Who needs runners when I can parse 100,000,000 DPS.

    Its inevitable at this point chief
  • Renato90085
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    what your idea for apart balance pvp and pve?
    like...Animal Companion maybe is tier 1 line in pvp
    but sametime in pve it just a joke line,
    if it want in pve good, it will overpower
    and if assassin line now do 200% dmg,in pve maybe is few good but still suck for aoe,but in pvp will be 1 shot bow kill 40-50k health character
    old patch have many nerf for nb ,it the weakest pve class got nerf ,just assassin in pvp too strong
    and you idea is buff all dps skill so now we have all class can one shot anything?
  • Silvains_Demon
    Game needs a massive overhaul.
  • madmufffin
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    Sure, why not. Subclassing has turned power creep into a power deluge in PVE. Lets turn it up to 11. Looking forward to soloing vMOL. Who needs runners when I can parse 100,000,000 DPS.

    You didn't need runners before subclassing either chief
  • NxJoeyD
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    I’ve posted this suggestion in other forums so I’ll toss it in here too.

    Agreed, subclassing raised the par on the meta power in PvP. Subclassing lowered the opportunity cost to access for a good number of abilities / buffs for builds that were already strong as is.

    That said, what I’d recommend is installing a “Competitive Index” for PvP.

    Basically all characters would start out with a base CI value and as they add or change things within their build the CI would change. This CI could then be used to better match make between builds of equivalent capacity.

    For example, a player could choose a number of self heals: Sorcs Twlight Matriarch, Wardens Soothing Spores, some Scribed options, etc. .. in this case, if the player chose the Twilight they’d end up with a higher CI than if they chose Spores due to the fact that the Twlight is a stronger heal, also deals damage, and body blocks for the player.

    This would see PvP outcomes boil down to team cooperation, player skill, and strategy rather than “cheese” set procs or metas.

    As for PvE, I’d leave things as they are. Power creep in PvE doesn’t bother me; mostly because we’ve seen the Devs lean on questionable mechanical choices in the pursuit of trying to raise the bar on difficulty. If we start reeling back the potential of builds in PvE I think we’re going to start to run into more brutal content with each update.
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    madmufffin wrote: »
    Sure, why not. Subclassing has turned power creep into a power deluge in PVE. Lets turn it up to 11. Looking forward to soloing vMOL. Who needs runners when I can parse 100,000,000 DPS.

    You didn't need runners before subclassing either chief

    Solo? LOL.
  • nb_rich
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    I agree they need to bump up the power level of some skills

    The dlc classes are okay because there skill lines are split between dps, healer and tank, but the original skill likes are all over the place. At all times every PvE dps needs to have at least Harold of the Tome, Assassination or Gravelord due to the passives.

    They are going to have to move/change passives around for most skill lines and also move some skills around. They can look at some of the least used skills in every skill lines and swap them around to see if they are more used. This can also help bring up the power level if all skill lines had more useable skills.

    Passives like Searing Heat from the Ardent Flame skill line need to be removed completely from all skill lines and replaced with more useful passives
    nb_rich
  • Blackrim
    Blackrim
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    nb_rich wrote: »
    I agree they need to bump up the power level of some skills

    The dlc classes are okay because there skill lines are split between dps, healer and tank, but the original skill likes are all over the place. At all times every PvE dps needs to have at least Harold of the Tome, Assassination or Gravelord due to the passives.

    They are going to have to move/change passives around for most skill lines and also move some skills around. They can look at some of the least used skills in every skill lines and swap them around to see if they are more used. This can also help bring up the power level if all skill lines had more useable skills.

    Passives like Searing Heat from the Ardent Flame skill line need to be removed completely from all skill lines and replaced with more useful passives

    Likewise every PvP DPS needs animal companion xD
  • MincMincMinc
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    Buffing or nerfing is the same end result, except at a certain point buffing leads to a bloated game. Bloat leads us to performance issues and things like vengeance.

    Does every active skill need to provide a secondary bonus or tertiary bonus along with slotted passivs, proc enchants/poisons, proc sets, proc status effects, have those status effects proc and do several effects....... do an aoe and dot along with all of the above each tick on 10 people?

    At a certain point it becomes just madness. Leave room for set bonuses or better written passives. Or hey why not start asking them to make more morphs. Why not have 3 morphs for skills instead? At some point you cant keep stacking unique cascading calculations on each other that pollinate with other stacking cascading effects.
    Edited by MincMincMinc on 12 September 2025 19:51
    We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more
  • Blackrim
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    Buffing or nerfing is the same end result, except at a certain point buffing leads to a bloated game. Bloat leads us to performance issues and things like vengeance..

    I believe actually it would have the opposite impact.

    More deaths = less fighting time and more resolution.
  • MincMincMinc
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    Blackrim wrote: »
    Buffing or nerfing is the same end result, except at a certain point buffing leads to a bloated game. Bloat leads us to performance issues and things like vengeance..

    I believe actually it would have the opposite impact.

    More deaths = less fighting time and more resolution.

    Your bottom statement and top statement have no correlation though. Unless you are assuming there would only be DAMAGE buffs. Making people die faster

    Regardless of how many buffs it doesnt dictate the TTK. What the number of buffs does is dictate the strain on the server.
    We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more
  • BXR_Lonestar
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    Game needs a massive overhaul.

    Subclassing threw balance out the window, which I think was a major oversight. They could have spent their time focusing on updating the champion point tree to allow for further specialized builds, but instead, they threw subclassing out there without much of a plan, and as far as I'm concerned, the game has been a hot mess ever since it released.

    Now, I think they have to go back and rebalance the game AND update the champion point tree, both of which are major undertakings.
  • Lebensf0rm
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    Buffing underperforming sets/skills/lines has always been preferable, but there appears to be a magic spreadsheet the devs have that we can't see, and it says that buffing underperforming sets/skills/lines would make the game even less balanced because vertical power would increase. Now, that obviously doesn't follow, but even if vertical power did go up somewhat as a result of fixing the imbalances, why would that be a problem? It wouldn't cheapen PvE content much, given that the best PvE players distinguish themselves by scores and not titles. PvP is already a mess, but there are definitely ways to buff underperforming parts of our kits without making PvP even less balanced.

    On another note:
    Sure, why not. Subclassing has turned power creep into a power deluge in PVE. Lets turn it up to 11. Looking forward to soloing vMOL. Who needs runners when I can parse 100,000,000 DPS.

    This sentiment has always struck me as odd, given that even slow power creep is destined to trivialize old content and scores will still make the best groups stand out. Moreover, it has always been possible for the devs to reinvigorate old content by making harder hard modes (we could even make them part of IA now). In fact, I'm sure lots of endgame players would go nuts over a version of HoF or AS balanced for 2025 damage, especially if the cosmetic and/or plunder rewards were good. I know I'd be excited about that. The same goes for the base game and early DLC dungeons.
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