Nightblade invisibility needs to roll back

Yökarhu · August 1

I returned to the game after almost 3 years absence. I used to be NB main, with many builds and focuses. Specially doing crit healing in PvP Cyrodiil. I was genuinely shocked how they butchered my boy. It is unplayable now. Very clunky, expensive and just plain annoying to use. Why in the world it had to be changed? I have many characters now with useless builds and sets. Makes me so sad that the best part of the game for me: the dynamic, great reward-high risk sneaky playstyle is now just... gone.

Please return the old cloack or at least change the functionality of this one. It is really bad.

El_Borracho · August 1

The funny part? Even before subclassing, and with all of the changes you have discovered, NB in Cyrodiil was a top performer. By far. Which says a lot about what they did to the other classes.

Silvains_Demon · August 2

Not to sound antagonistic, but it makes sense things would change for an MMO after 3 years. The current invisibility skill is definitely more rewarding for all kinds of slower play right now. If built right, you can pop invisibility for a few seconds for the buffs and turn it off manually or automarically by attacking/using a different skill or use it for non-combat situations like lock-picking or stealing and have a harder time being caught. Being in Cyrodiil right now and using the skill to set long-term ambushes is pretty neat as well since it has a decreased cost when being still and Magicka Recovery is re-activated.

I would have to say the best bet is to not revert it, but to simply alter the other morph it has to be the "reverted" version. That way it has the best of 2 worlds with invisibility.

Avran_Sylt · August 2

The only viewpoint I understand regarding the cloak change is that it limits coupling magicka regen with prolonged use of cloak.

Otherwise in your case you are more resource efficient? Pop cloak, you have reduced cost as it's cost/s but will still give you a heal crit just for using the ability.

El_Borracho wrote: »

The funny part? Even before subclassing, and with all of the changes you have discovered, NB in Cyrodiil was a top performer. By far. Which says a lot about what they did to the other classes.

I'll be honest, I... Don't see NB's in Cyrodiil. I rarely even get ganked by them and I'm a 24K hp squish NB myself. I mostly see Wardens.

As for bombblades, (Well, mostly colossusbombs now) that's Vicious Death/RoA, not really anything specific to the NB class.

I really do not understand this whole "NB is a top performer" bit. Especially now that Assassination can be slotted on any other class.

Yökarhu · August 2

Silvains_Demon wrote: »

Not to sound antagonistic, but it makes sense things would change for an MMO after 3 years. The current invisibility skill is definitely more rewarding for all kinds of slower play right now. .

Strongly disagree. Sure things in general can change but the cloak was mostly as it was with invisibility morph for many years. It was not an actual problem.
Ppl are just ridiculously tanky now bc you have to face everything, not that versatile anymore. It is just another bar filler just to pop up for a moment of buff. I tried to do the IC quests I loved to do every day back then. Not gonna bother. You can't stay hidden, just focus on the quests. You gotta facetank every and all cheesy bash build tanks that just wants content to their streams. :P I just want my daily quests done. :v Really disappointed by the direction this game is going. All individuality of the classes are gone.

Silvains_Demon · August 12

Yökarhu wrote: »

Silvains_Demon wrote: »

Not to sound antagonistic, but it makes sense things would change for an MMO after 3 years. The current invisibility skill is definitely more rewarding for all kinds of slower play right now. .

Strongly disagree. Sure things in general can change but the cloak was mostly as it was with invisibility morph for many years. It was not an actual problem.
Ppl are just ridiculously tanky now bc you have to face everything, not that versatile anymore. It is just another bar filler just to pop up for a moment of buff. I tried to do the IC quests I loved to do every day back then. Not gonna bother. You can't stay hidden, just focus on the quests. You gotta facetank every and all cheesy bash build tanks that just wants content to their streams. :P I just want my daily quests done. :v Really disappointed by the direction this game is going. All individuality of the classes are gone.

I can definitely agree on that last part. They really should have just made subclassing just a 4th class skill line you can choose to add on to the original 3. That way, it is only a minor thing. Just my opinion. As for the 1st part, what do you mean? When you cloak, the only buffs you get is just a 10% increase to damage against “monsters” for 10 seconds (PvE) and guaranteeing a critical strike when it is activated for the next direct attack. As well as gaining Major Prophecy and Major Savagery while slotted on either bar.

Not that much of a difference from before except the buff against monsters and the obvious change in how it works. So do you have a problem with the change in invisibility (which gained more utility) or the subclassing (which is destroying class identity)?

Yökarhu · August 12

Silvains_Demon wrote: »

I can definitely agree on that last part. They really should have just made subclassing just a 4th class skill line you can choose to add on to the original 3. That way, it is only a minor thing. Just my opinion. As for the 1st part, what do you mean? When you cloak, the only buffs you get is just a 10% increase to damage against “monsters” for 10 seconds (PvE) and guaranteeing a critical strike when it is activated for the next direct attack. As well as gaining Major Prophecy and Major Savagery while slotted on either bar.

Not that much of a difference from before except the buff against monsters and the obvious change in how it works. So do you have a problem with the change in invisibility (which gained more utility) or the subclassing (which is destroying class identity)?

I am talking on a PvP point of view. Cloack was mostly used to stay hidden as long as you need and to get that guaranteed crit, and to increase the damage (after leaving invis) if you are a vampire, and most NB in PvP are. :P NB in PvP has traditionally been high damage, low survivability, and the invisibility is crucial for staying alive in a very hectic, dynamic and unpredictable PvP surroundings. Fights in Grey Host Cyrodiil specially can be long and tiring and the cloack at this state is not living up to the standards.

Now it's functionality as an actual invisibility is very clunky, expensive and and just annoying (and impossible to use in a long fights when your survivability relies on the enemies not seeing you) to use and you can't really control it as you used to. You can't sprint so you move slow. After just few seconds you gotta stop for more than just few seconds to get the magick back, or wait till you can pop the magicka potion again. The enemies will not wait, I tell you this much.

It is frustratingly stupid. I have beef with the subclassing (not just bc of this, but this is in the top of the list) bc it is obvious they had that in their minds when they made the changes to the invisibility. Why not keep the cloack as it is for NB's and then change it to this monstrosity what it is now, if you have it as a subclass.

Before: Nightblade, a class that can live in the shadows!
Now: Nightblade, a class that can wait in the shadows!

Vaqual · August 12

it is completely fine and manageable

MincMincMinc · August 12

The toggle cloak was a massive buff for nb. They literally got rid of the need to juggle your bars to move and cloak during lag, and now it auto turns off so there really isnt a downside.

Cost wise I personally dont agree with the regen cut. I would rather a higher ramping cost that lets you still get regen. Which would punish people abusing cloak longterm but not punish players weaving potentially having their sustain completely cut. Just think if you cloak weave, for the 0.7-1s interval there is a 50/50 chance your regen tick happens making you lose 1500 to 2500 regen. Effectively making cloak cost you a ton more resources over time.

Yökarhu · August 15

Vaqual wrote: »

it is completely fine and manageable

Well that was really helpful. That completely counter argumented me to the swamp.

Yökarhu · August 15

MincMincMinc wrote: »

The toggle cloak was a massive buff for nb. They literally got rid of the need to juggle your bars to move and cloak during lag, and now it auto turns off so there really isnt a downside.

I wrote many downsides. How are the changes a buff though? You gotta remember to double click it if you just want the buffs from it. Some non damaging skills can be casted while invis and the ticks be ticking and draining your magicka. Last cloack went off automatically as well, and before draining your resourses. It was smooth to use, controllable and much easier to use tactically in PvP fights or long term in PvE to get from the public dungeon boss to outside without spending 5minutes to kill all the mobs again on the way out :P .

Tommy_The_Gun · August 15

MincMincMinc wrote: »

The toggle cloak was a massive buff for nb. They literally got rid of the need to juggle your bars to move and cloak during lag, and now it auto turns off so there really isnt a downside.

I would dare to disagree here. ZOS argumented cloak change by 2 things:
1. Ease of use - they wanted to make it easier to use for new players. Just toggle on of vs cast exactly every 2.9 seconds.
2. Some mag NB builds were able to stay in cloak pretty much indefinitely if they build for it.

And tbh. they failed in both of those.

Previously, you could cast a skill exactly every 2,9 seconds and doing so on top of doing everything else required some skill. Some extra care & coordination. Not only that but you also needed to know what you can cast and what you cant cast as most of thing will interrupt cloak.

With the change to toggle, sure - it might seem like just one button instead of one button every 2,9 seconds - but there is an important catch - on its own, even on a max magica build - cloak is too short to do anything remotely usefully. It just burns your magicka way too fast to move from point A to B. So you need to use Equilibrium or Siphoning Strikes ON TOP of cloak to just get some additional magicka. And for the most part - if you do it - you will lose health. So if you want to stay in cloak longer you also need Rally (2h skill).

So we went from: cast a skill every 2,9 seconds.
to: Toggle on, cast Equilibrium or Siphoning Strikes every 2 seconds and cast Rally and then again Rally when low on health....
Now again, the goal was to make it easier ? umm... yeah that went well....

As for the 2nd part - to make it a bit harder to stay in cloak longer, it also seemed not to work, as with a bit practice - you can stay in cloak even longer that before even on a stamina build. You just need to combo it with stuff that gives you magicka back and is not mag recovery.

Previous cloak was way better as it was more straightforward and more simple to use while also having some kind of skill-based mini-game and the better you were at that game the longer you could stay hidden.

Lebensf0rm · August 20

I would rather see cloak nerfed again than reverted. Invisibility is already strong. But, on top of that, players have opportunities for huge offensive buffs when they exit cloak from Concealed Weapon and/or Strike From the Shadows. And opposing players get to watch their otherwise homing projectile attacks just forget where they were going whenever someone cloaks. Personally, I'd give cloak a couple more passive benefits and make it yet harder to use by making any damage prevent it from working so that DoTs prevent you from cloaking.