ROA changes

MISTFORMBZZZ · August 19

Did it work? Is it not as much of a plague for yous on PC anymore?

PureeEvil · August 19

I'm furious. It seems they only added the animation, but the set stopped working properly. Even in PvE. Yesterday, due to a weak group, I had to kill a bunch of mobs before the final boss in Darkshade Caverns II in solo, and they didn't attract properly. It seems they limited the number of attractions. The set also stopped working as before on BG. To be honest, I don't care how it was used by the ball groups in cyro, but the set stopped working properly in 1vsX battles. It's not worth it to have a couple of noobs die less in cyro.

tsaescishoeshiner · August 19

The new Rush of Agony works way better for the old proc build I've had for a few Updates now. I think this change might overall be a nerf, but making it a ground-based pull has its perks for planning a burst combo.

Though I feel like I notice some targets getting the "pull" animation but not going all the way towards the middle, just closer to it. Or even not moving at all. And not targets on the CC cooldown, but even fresh target.

For times when you might only hit 1-2 targets, it's performing better for my particular setup.

PureeEvil · August 19

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The new Rush of Agony works way better for the old proc build I've had for a few Updates now. I think this change might overall be a nerf, but making it a ground-based pull has its perks for planning a burst combo.

Though I feel like I notice some targets getting the "pull" animation but not going all the way towards the middle, just closer to it. Or even not moving at all. And not targets on the CC cooldown, but even fresh target.

For times when you might only hit 1-2 targets, it's performing better for my particular setup.

i dont know. its work badley. i use it with malestorm gun from back + Blazing Spear from front. and that not work correct. Attractions often don't work. the center set stopped attracting in u46. I don't know what they did to it, but the set is broken. It's easier to bypass it than DC. If use it in conjunction with Celestix, it's about the same.

ZOS this set has made enough sales to ruin it. Instead of doing something with the ball groups, you ruined the set.

xylena_lazarow · August 19

This set is a major contributor to the collapse in the casual PvP population, yet ZOS bends over backwards to preserve its PvP double stun pull bomb crap that drives them away, breaking PvE in the process. Lose/lose for everyone, save for a tiny handful of comp group sweatlords who abuse the set to grief pugs.

The remaining 8 players still trying to 1vX with this set were easy targets before, and still are, though it was always rage quit inducing when they got off a lucky chain reaction causing half my team to VD me.

JaxontheUnfortunate · August 19

Yeah I agree. This set has damaged influx of new players into pvp.

Sluggy · August 19

Honestly, it wasn't even just PvP for me. I hate it in PvE too. It alone is probably half of the reason I don't do dungeons anymore because being a tank is soooo 2019 these days.

The two things as a tank: Hold aggro on the big stuff. Round up and manage the little stuff.

We don't need the former because dungeons are trivial with all of the damage and survival afforded to your average DD these days. And the second (arguably most important part for good teams) was made obsolete with sets like this that do it in a single button press... oh and also burn it all down so you don't even need to manage or maintain anything after and can be worn most effectively by a DD anyway.

LadyGP · August 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This set is a major contributor to the collapse in the casual PvP population, yet ZOS bends over backwards to preserve its PvP double stun pull bomb crap that drives them away, breaking PvE in the process. Lose/lose for everyone, save for a tiny handful of comp group sweatlords who abuse the set to grief pugs.

The remaining 8 players still trying to 1vX with this set were easy targets before, and still are, though it was always rage quit inducing when they got off a lucky chain reaction causing half my team to VD me.

Couldn't disagree with this more. Respectfully, this reads as you have a very "dug in" view of how PvP should be and if ZoS doesn't make a change in that direction you consider it a bad change.

ZoS has openly said they aren't going to remove ball groups, just like they aren't going to remove the rock humpers, the perma blockers, the zerg surfers, etc. Sure, everyone loves to scream about ball groups (and there are things I think ZoS needs to do to reduce their power), but ball groups aren't the reason PvP is "dying" and to get fixated on one group is a very short sighted view.

I'm not trying to bait, be disrespectful, just pointing out an alternative view point.

xylena_lazarow · August 19

LadyGP wrote: »

this reads as you have a very "dug in" view

Yeah I do because the game is dead and Rushing Agony helped kill it. Relentless focus on catering to comp groups helped kill it. I stand by my convictions, I'll bet my account that build PvP is cooked and Vengeance is the future.

JustLovely · August 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

this reads as you have a very "dug in" view

Yeah I do because the game is dead and Rushing Agony helped kill it. Relentless focus on catering to comp groups helped kill it. I stand by my convictions, I'll bet my account that build PvP is cooked and Vengeance is the future.

Please stop promoting a game mode you know full well the vast majority of the remaining PvP community hates.

PureeEvil · August 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

this reads as you have a very "dug in" view

Yeah I do because the game is dead and Rushing Agony helped kill it. Relentless focus on catering to comp groups helped kill it. I stand by my convictions, I'll bet my account that build PvP is cooked and Vengeance is the future.

if so like Vengeance why not play in some marvel "what the name of that chinese marvel"? the point of teso is the unique builds you create.

Avran_Sylt · August 19

Sluggy wrote: »

Honestly, it wasn't even just PvP for me. I hate it in PvE too. It alone is probably half of the reason I don't do dungeons anymore because being a tank is soooo 2019 these days.

The two things as a tank: Hold aggro on the big stuff. Round up and manage the little stuff.

We don't need the former because dungeons are trivial with all of the damage and survival afforded to your average DD these days. And the second (arguably most important part for good teams) was made obsolete with sets like this that do it in a single button press... oh and also burn it all down so you don't even need to manage or maintain anything after and can be worn most effectively by a DD anyway.

Well the current change spawns the AoE at the target location too, so if you're off-tanking and decide to engage by using a PULL on a far target into your aggro group, it'll spawn the AoE at that target instead of under you.

Which ironically favors blinks over tank pulls, making this set less viable to use on a tank (though I suppose you'd applaud that).

Basically Rune of Displacement which can be slotted by DDs anyway and removes an aspect of player positioning for the pull. (I also wonder if this will make it easier for bomb builds to engage with more safety/at range.)

I'm enjoying the telegraph but am disappointed it no longer spawns the Effect on your position. (Which forced melee engagement in PvP and allowing pull flexibility in PvE)

xylena_lazarow · August 19

JustLovely wrote: »

Please stop promoting a game mode you know full well the vast majority of the remaining PvP community hates.

I'd rather play with the 600+ that showed up for Vengeance, than the 60+ that still enjoy heal stacking, proc sets, ball groups, instant deaths, turtle/burst stalemates decided by RNG weighted coin flips, and LAG. Catering to this tiny population has killed PvP. It's not getting fixed when any given problem is dozens of other problems in a trench coat.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 19

Set works fine, especially broken if you pair it with Warden base class and assassination.

Cast contingency with charm on it. Ambush/Lotus Fan onto a target. Both ROA and Charm drop on the floor. People get pulled from Narnia and essentially instantly charmed leaving you free to use any other ability combo's.

tbh feels even more broken now because the rush will always be pulling into the charm regardless if your character repositions outside of it (e.g. when dodging).

Thumbless_Bot · August 19

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Set works fine, especially broken if you pair it with Warden base class and assassination.

Cast contingency with charm on it. Ambush/Lotus Fan onto a target. Both ROA and Charm drop on the floor. People get pulled from Narnia and essentially instantly charmed leaving you free to use any other ability combo's.

tbh feels even more broken now because the rush will always be pulling into the charm regardless if your character repositions outside of it (e.g. when dodging).

AOE pull sets have no business in a player vs player environment. This and Dark Convergence have brought eso pvp to its knees. Sad really.

Apollosipod · August 19

Ugh..one of my favorite characters is just a story pve Nightblade that combos ROA and Sul-Xan for trash packs. Is this going to kill yet another build I've made that bothers literally no one else?

God, I'm so tired of having to reinvent characters on every single patch. I'm about done.

LadyGP · August 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Please stop promoting a game mode you know full well the vast majority of the remaining PvP community hates.

I'd rather play with the 600+ that showed up for Vengeance, than the 60+ that still enjoy heal stacking, proc sets, ball groups, instant deaths, turtle/burst stalemates decided by RNG weighted coin flips, and LAG. Catering to this tiny population has killed PvP. It's not getting fixed when any given problem is dozens of other problems in a trench coat.

1) Veng is the future - but not in it's current form (obviously).

2) If they put it in it's current form they know the fall off would be unreal. You're "600" people you're playing with isn't going to be anywhere near that. The data alone says that.

Sluggy · August 19

JustLovely wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

this reads as you have a very "dug in" view

Yeah I do because the game is dead and Rushing Agony helped kill it. Relentless focus on catering to comp groups helped kill it. I stand by my convictions, I'll bet my account that build PvP is cooked and Vengeance is the future.

Please stop promoting a game mode you know full well the vast majority of the remaining PvP community hates.

Please stop promoting something that you prefer.

See how silly that sounds?

xylena_lazarow · August 19

LadyGP wrote: »

2) If they put it in it's current form they know the fall off would be unreal. You're "600" people you're playing with isn't going to be anywhere near that. The data alone says that.

Next iteration adds modified Meatbags so we'll know whether they're serious about balancing zerg v zerg.

fufu_from_ps4 · August 19

LadyGP wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This set is a major contributor to the collapse in the casual PvP population, yet ZOS bends over backwards to preserve its PvP double stun pull bomb crap that drives them away, breaking PvE in the process. Lose/lose for everyone, save for a tiny handful of comp group sweatlords who abuse the set to grief pugs.

The remaining 8 players still trying to 1vX with this set were easy targets before, and still are, though it was always rage quit inducing when they got off a lucky chain reaction causing half my team to VD me.

Couldn't disagree with this more. Respectfully, this reads as you have a very "dug in" view of how PvP should be and if ZoS doesn't make a change in that direction you consider it a bad change.

ZoS has openly said they aren't going to remove ball groups, just like they aren't going to remove the rock humpers, the perma blockers, the zerg surfers, etc. Sure, everyone loves to scream about ball groups (and there are things I think ZoS needs to do to reduce their power), but ball groups aren't the reason PvP is "dying" and to get fixated on one group is a very short sighted view.

I'm not trying to bait, be disrespectful, just pointing out an alternative view point.

you always blindly defend mechanics that empower ball groups. which is fine... i guess.

i dont see how you justify the pull/stun not applying cc immunity to people tho. also i dont understand why they dont just make it apply cc immunity.... its a stun, its a pull... i mean bro cmon...... and then we can all stop crying about it.

even people who use the set, and are being honest, will quickly point out that the double stun PLUS aoe proc damage is beyond broken.

i dont know why we are still talking about this set its a farce at this point.

fufu_from_ps4 · August 19

also the cooldown should probably be increased to not line up with cc immunity. no other set in the game pulls and does damage and lines up with cc immunity period. its terrible gameplay and design.

JustLovely · August 19

If they were serious about fixing performance issues they'd be fixed. The vengeance thing is being done for reasons only known for certain by upper management.

Avran_Sylt · August 19

Apollosipod wrote: »

Ugh..one of my favorite characters is just a story pve Nightblade that combos ROA and Sul-Xan for trash packs. Is this going to kill yet another build I've made that bothers literally no one else?

God, I'm so tired of having to reinvent characters on every single patch. I'm about done.

Charges/Blinks/Teleports won't see too much of a change. Only targeted ranged pulls.

StihlReign · August 19

The only permanent carryover I'd want to see from Vengeance tests I've participated in thus far is a template(s) for players to select, and then engage in PvP without the investment of a PvPer.

Other than that, I'd like to see performance enhancements that allow PvP to have larger scale battles, and aesthetic upgrades to evolve the terrain to match the current tech in some of the latter maps.

I'm hoping the devs will do some housekeeping to remove tedious rituals - like pressing E to get a scroll.

And I'd love to see them finally address the many poorly designed pathing/blocking elements in the keeps. Getting stopped running on steps is just...really getting old. Just like dying because doors don't work. How many years does it take?

The mechanic that kills Cyrodiil is the same mechanic that would kill Cyrodiil for years. Remove heal stacking and group buff stacking. Let communication and skilled play be the advantage. Or create a Mythic buff match set - (1) When a non-grouped player engages a group in combat, take on the buffs of the group for 10 secs, can occur every 12 secs. Drop it in Cyro after 1500 kills or something...

Removing items sets is nuts, create more sets, make groups larger again and let players play roles.

silky_soft · August 19

Needs to share a cooldown with dark convergence. If only melee gap closers, ambush and charge worked like op streak you could blink out of it.

LadyGP · August 20

fufu_from_ps4 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This set is a major contributor to the collapse in the casual PvP population, yet ZOS bends over backwards to preserve its PvP double stun pull bomb crap that drives them away, breaking PvE in the process. Lose/lose for everyone, save for a tiny handful of comp group sweatlords who abuse the set to grief pugs.

The remaining 8 players still trying to 1vX with this set were easy targets before, and still are, though it was always rage quit inducing when they got off a lucky chain reaction causing half my team to VD me.

Couldn't disagree with this more. Respectfully, this reads as you have a very "dug in" view of how PvP should be and if ZoS doesn't make a change in that direction you consider it a bad change.

ZoS has openly said they aren't going to remove ball groups, just like they aren't going to remove the rock humpers, the perma blockers, the zerg surfers, etc. Sure, everyone loves to scream about ball groups (and there are things I think ZoS needs to do to reduce their power), but ball groups aren't the reason PvP is "dying" and to get fixated on one group is a very short sighted view.

I'm not trying to bait, be disrespectful, just pointing out an alternative view point.

you always blindly defend mechanics that empower ball groups. which is fine... i guess.

i dont see how you justify the pull/stun not applying cc immunity to people tho. also i dont understand why they dont just make it apply cc immunity.... its a stun, its a pull... i mean bro cmon...... and then we can all stop crying about it.

even people who use the set, and are being honest, will quickly point out that the double stun PLUS aoe proc damage is beyond broken.

i dont know why we are still talking about this set its a farce at this point.

Whats funny is I can tell you literally don't look at my posts.

I do not blindly defend ball groups. I, on more than one occasion, have said how they can tune them so ball groups can be killed easier and make it harder for us (yes I ball group) to stay alive.

I've also said, on more than one occasion, that I shouldn't be able to pull someone with rush, then pull again, and again and again... and rush should have cc.

I've said this so many times in so many of these threads. I've also explained, in detail, how rush is broken under heavy server load.

Respectfully, read my posts before you attempt to call me out.

MISTFORMBZZZ · August 20

How does the set perform in pvp now after the change? Not worth for the people to use it anymore?

PureeEvil · August 20

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

How does the set perform in pvp now after the change? Not worth for the people to use it anymore?

it still works, but now it's more about the damage. It's easier to escape from the pull. The set is still good, but it's a bit worse. it's still worth using.

fufu_from_ps4 · August 20

LadyGP wrote: »

Whats funny is I can tell you literally don't look at my posts.

I do not blindly defend ball groups. I, on more than one occasion, have said how they can tune them so ball groups can be killed easier and make it harder for us (yes I ball group) to stay alive.

I've also said, on more than one occasion, that I shouldn't be able to pull someone with rush, then pull again, and again and again... and rush should have cc.

I've said this so many times in so many of these threads. I've also explained, in detail, how rush is broken under heavy server load.

Respectfully, read my posts before you attempt to call me out.

dude you constantly do it. you did it just now by claiming this set doesnt drive people away from the game with its broken mechanics, which is why i pointed out that you constantly defend broken mechanics. like i said... its fine. but lets call a spade a spade.

you claimed in another thread that the current changes are sufficient (because i assume you want to keep a double stun, as if ball groups needed anymore help)

a month or so ago you were argueing against nerfing, the stacking of 10 vigors and 10 regens plus whatever other hots are stacking. theres no need for more than 2 hots per morph. it creates lag, and no one needs 30k heals per second give me a break.

i could go on and on, you always advocate for the buffing of ball groups.... which is fine..... but just be honest about it.

rush of agony giving no cc immunity is SUPER broken, especially paired with the damage and the insanely short cooldown ( that happens to line up with the stun you're gonna hit them with after you pull them so you can double stun on cc cooldown)

its pretty cringy bro.

Theignson · August 20

The set is NOT fixed.

What I mean: not talking about the game breaking lack of respect of cc immunity and lack of putting cc immunity after the pull. Not talking about the ridiculous 12m pull radius, larger than almost any set in the game.

The set STILL pulls you from way outside the ground area effect marker. I was pulled from at least 10m outside the area effect area.

I thought that was supposed to be fixed?? Can others confirm that they are being pulled from outside the area of effect ?

This is not lag or desync , it is the same old crap as before.

MISTFORMBZZZ · August 20

fufu_from_ps4 wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Whats funny is I can tell you literally don't look at my posts.

I do not blindly defend ball groups. I, on more than one occasion, have said how they can tune them so ball groups can be killed easier and make it harder for us (yes I ball group) to stay alive.

I've also said, on more than one occasion, that I shouldn't be able to pull someone with rush, then pull again, and again and again... and rush should have cc.

I've said this so many times in so many of these threads. I've also explained, in detail, how rush is broken under heavy server load.

Respectfully, read my posts before you attempt to call me out.

dude you constantly do it. you did it just now by claiming this set doesnt drive people away from the game with its broken mechanics, which is why i pointed out that you constantly defend broken mechanics. like i said... its fine. but lets call a spade a spade.

you claimed in another thread that the current changes are sufficient (because i assume you want to keep a double stun, as if ball groups needed anymore help)

a month or so ago you were argueing against nerfing, the stacking of 10 vigors and 10 regens plus whatever other hots are stacking. theres no need for more than 2 hots per morph. it creates lag, and no one needs 30k heals per second give me a break.

i could go on and on, you always advocate for the buffing of ball groups.... which is fine..... but just be honest about it.

rush of agony giving no cc immunity is SUPER broken, especially paired with the damage and the insanely short cooldown ( that happens to line up with the stun you're gonna hit them with after you pull them so you can double stun on cc cooldown)

its pretty cringy bro.

Can you pls not turn my thread into a cry about ball groups thread? Its off topic.
People are using rush as solos or in small groups & in pve too.
I wanna know if the set itsself is still broken or if the change did something.

PureeEvil wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

How does the set perform in pvp now after the change? Not worth for the people to use it anymore?

It's easier to escape from the pull.

Stuff like that