Just finished Black gem foundry dungeon.

Punches_Below_Belt · August 18

Does ZOS know their encounter “design” team has quietly quit?

Boring, generic and completely forgettable. Normally, I go out of my way to defend ZOS. Public dungeons, trials and dungeons are almost without exception unique and memorable. Black Gem Foundry is game development done by students trying to complete a weekly project in the style of ESO for a beginning course in game design.

ZOS do better and stop wasting resources and time navel-gazing about PvP. If you were going to find the philosopher’s stone to turn that lead into gold, you would have found it literally decades ago.

Yes, I know I’m getting banned for this, but I feel like it needed to be said. I will repost it on Reddit where valid opinions are still welcome and not everything has to be in line with the corporate narrative.

Soarora · August 18

Whaa?? I thought BGF was one of the most well designed dungeons we've had. What difficulty mode did you do it on?

Punches_Below_Belt · August 18

Soarora wrote: »

Whaa?? I thought BGF was one of the most well designed dungeons we've had. What difficulty mode did you do it on?

Why would that matter? A dungeon has to be fun and memorable for all play levels or do you think only meta builds and experienced players should enjoy the game?

Punches_Below_Belt · August 18

Please share what aspects of the dungeon you felt were designed well?

Punches_Below_Belt · August 18

Just finished the other new dungeon. Now that is what I have come to expect from ZOS. Even with the recycled assets, there was new, different, and I’m excited to learn the mechs more thoroughly. I can see doing this dungeon multiple more times this year

The Foundry feels like a delve you just sleep walk through in comparison. Why would anyone want to do that on an ongoing basis.

Soarora · August 18

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Whaa?? I thought BGF was one of the most well designed dungeons we've had. What difficulty mode did you do it on?

Why would that matter? A dungeon has to be fun and memorable for all play levels or do you think only meta builds and experienced players should enjoy the game?

Uhm, because on normal and vet mechanics can be so ignorable you never have to learn them? It's the reality that non-HM dungeons have to be puggable and thus cannot have harsh consequences for mechanics or a lot of group-play mechanics... making them boring.

Punches_Below_Belt wrote: »

Please share what aspects of the dungeon you felt were designed well?

The first boss minigame of avoiding getting slammed into crystals is pretty unique, as is having to cone the group to remove the DoT-- exact opposite of what a tank should do in any other situation. Second boss, the group-play of standing in the beam to reduce the damage done to the furthest player yet also needing to situate the beam so that it hits the adds is a wonderfully complicated mechanic. I haven't done the last boss enough to comment on that one.

Jaimeh · August 18

OP why did you think BGF was boring? In terms of mechanics? I actually think the mechanics in this dungeon are cleverly designed, challenging yet fun. The last boss HM fight might be my favourite so far. What I like about it is that although mechanics happen fast, and they can overlap, there is a periodicity that if you get to grips with its rhytmh it then unlocks the fight. There's no luck or RNG involved, there's no artificial difficulty via just piling on the incoming damage, it's just a matter of excecuting the steps to a dance well and coordinating with your group mates. In my books that is a well-designed fight. I also like that you have to keep moving your attention to different things and that you can't afford to tunnel vision.

Punches_Below_Belt · August 18

Having run through it a few more times, this dungeon reminds me of The Dread Cellar. Easy and boring to run through on normal, giving the impression there is nothing there. But if you do the bosses on vet and include the side bosses, there’s much more there.

Unfortunately, this dungeon is spread out to give more territory to hide atronachs, side bosses and gems in an ugly, played out biome which leaves a terrible first impression and that will be the repeated experience players will have as they do this dungeon every couple of weeks for pledges.

The “fun” stuff in a dungeon like this is only fun a couple of times before the novelty is gone and your back to killing dozens of trash mobs in Coldharbor, when all you want is your damned random bonus experience and the keys.

This dungeon definitely needed lots of water to make to your mount swim, gorges to jump or the grapple hook to break up the monotony of killing undead In Coldharbor that we’ve been doing for the past decade.

kevkj · August 19

The one thing I might agree with you here is that the trash pulls between bosses in this dungeon feel a bit much and tedious. I don't have a quantitative comparison with other dungeons, but it doesn't feel good to play. Going a bit off topic since I only first played it recently, I think Ossein Cage suffers a bit from this issue as well.

For the most part I think the boss encounters are well designed though. I really like the first one.

Soarora · August 19

kevkj wrote: »

The one thing I might agree with you here is that the trash pulls between bosses in this dungeon feel a bit much and tedious. I don't have a quantitative comparison with other dungeons, but it doesn't feel good to play. Going a bit off topic since I only first played it recently, I think Ossein Cage suffers a bit from this issue as well.

For the most part I think the boss encounters are well designed though. I really like the first one.

It reminds me of March of Sacrifices— infamous for “oops missed a trash pack, let’s run through the dungeon real fast so we can get speedrun/no death”. I agree, the trash in BGF isn’t great. Stone atronachs are unchainable in most content but are chainable here…? What? I think in general though, dungeons very much feel like the art team made them and the encounter team has to fill out what they were given. Shout out to the 3-flame atro pull and immense amount of running in Oathsworn Pit… and the one section in Lep Seclusa where you go through a door only to immediately go through another door.

Mathius_Mordred · August 19

That first secret boss location took us ages to find lol. I liked Naj Caldeesh more but this was ok on normal, probably a different beast on vet. The story was ok and slotted in well with the Solstice storyline. Nice addition to the game.

emilyhyoyeon · August 19

I did BGF on vet yesterday. Also I'm aware of the HM mechanics from watching other people play through them.

I agree that the Coldharbour biome is really played out at this point, but I honestly think that's where the negatives of this dungeon end.

The majority mechanics on the three main bosses are exactly the kinds of mechanics I love seeing: not just area denial with AOEs, but interacting with the environment and the things in it, which is a way more immersive style of mechanic IMO. Things like:

First boss:
using boss attack to clear crystals; avoiding crystals not only while moving around but also when the push mechanics hit

Second boss:
needing good movement and area awareness to affect where the boss places area denial crystals & mini atros; having to physically move and respond to an attack (beam) to not only block damage as a hard req to avoid deaths, but also to mitigate the stress of another mechanic (mini atros)

Third boss:
having to move around the room and interact with things (purple shades, safe symbols) vs just avoid an AOE; keeping an eye on boss for heavies while doing so; non tanks needing to be aware of boss animations (heavies) as well

tomofhyrule · August 19

Ok, Black Gem was definitely one of the most interesting dungeons in a while. I really like this one.

Sure, the Coldharbor aesthetic is bland and depressing (almost like that’s the point…) and the pulls are a bit spaced out and longer, but the boss fights are incredible.

I took a group through nonHM and then later did the first two HMs (but it was 3:30 by the end so we need to come back to the last one lol), and I have to say that the HM mechanics really broke our brains. We did them blind and tried to figure everything out as we went, and a lot of the mechanics were a bit counterintuitive, which made it so much fun to figure it out.

I love the theme of using the boss’s mechanics against them.

Seriously, Finn’s team just puts out banger after banger, and this one was excellent. I’m just at work today thinking about getting to run it again.

twisttop138 · August 19

Wow you guys are making me excited for the 3rd. I love dungeons. Don't get me wrong, I love a trial but dungeons are more intimate feeling. I agree with the comment above me that the encounter team keeps putting out bangers. I would like to watch a video on it but would rather go blind. I agree Coldharbor is old but it fits in the theme of the expansion and is a logical choice. Super excited.

Malprave · August 20

I love it. The boss fights are super fun. I enjoyed the story and I like how the art department works within the original aesthetics of the game but improves them. The massive edifice that’s the main foundry building is imposing and super cool. Well done!

Elvenheart · August 21

I enjoyed the environment of BGF. It really gave me a sense of nostalgia.