licenturion wrote: »

If you have all skyshards you don't need to reroll a character.

Just use your free armory station and make builds. It saves subclasses too now. You can switch between you competitive build and your fun build with the click of 1 button and back.

Since you have all the skyshards, you won't have any troubles unlocking stuff.

Yeah I use the Armory multiple times a day since it was released. This does nothing to fix the issue.

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

That's a lot of work. It's easier just to make a hyperbolic thread on the forum claiming that some feature has completely destroyed your game/character/immersion/soul.

🤣

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

My main character, the one I've done all quests on and discovered all points of interest, found all skyshards, learned all crafting, etc. is now obsolete thanks to Subclassing. The builds that I need to stay competitive are no longer possible on my main class, so I must reroll another character and start fresh. Either that or buy skill lines from the crown store and switch characters anytime I need something crafted. You get the idea.

It's also been said before but Subclassing has distilled combat down to maybe 5 skill lines for the serious high-end competitive gameplay.

"oh wow, you're playing XYZ... how original" etc

this is the case in every single game. Stop playing/chasing the meta. You can clear content in this game playing a build you want to play, that's what I've done and what I'll always do... Subclassing makes classes vastly more interesting to me and improves on the build variety the game already offered through its extensive gearing system/other passive trees/etc.

Kappachi wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

My main character, the one I've done all quests on and discovered all points of interest, found all skyshards, learned all crafting, etc. is now obsolete thanks to Subclassing. The builds that I need to stay competitive are no longer possible on my main class, so I must reroll another character and start fresh. Either that or buy skill lines from the crown store and switch characters anytime I need something crafted. You get the idea.

It's also been said before but Subclassing has distilled combat down to maybe 5 skill lines for the serious high-end competitive gameplay.

"oh wow, you're playing XYZ... how original" etc

this is the case in every single game. Stop playing/chasing the meta. You can clear content in this game playing a build you want to play, that's what I've done and what I'll always do... Subclassing makes classes vastly more interesting to me and improves on the build variety the game already offered through its extensive gearing system/other passive trees/etc.

As many people have said, that strategy works wonderfully in a solo game, where you can have fun being the naked "Let Me Solo Her!" through the world.

This strategy falls apart completely when other players are around.

In PvP: What are you supposed to do when someone comes to fight you who is playing the meta? You will lose. And lose again. And again. And again. In PvP, the meta is currently so much more powerful than other builds that you do not have a chance if you're not playing it yourself.
So no, you can't just "don't play meta!" if you want to have any success in PvP.

In PvE: What are you supposed to do when your trial team asks you to do a specific amount of damage? You will not match up to the rest of the team. They'll get frustrated with you. They'll look for someone who does want to play meta to replace you. In PvE, the meta is currently so much more powerful than other builds that you will not measure up if you're not playing it yourself.
So no, you can't just "don't play meta!" if you want to have any success in PvE.

The only game mode you can "just play whatever!" without affecting your gameplay is... overland. Questing. Or running randoms and pretending that everyone is an NPC (which is kinda toxic if you're trying to do a team project with a "I don't care about any of you" attitude).

You know, every time someone comes in with the "you can just play your casual for-fun build even to do high level stuff!" I always ask for the Discord servers where the trial leads are allowing even pureclasses to do trifectas like GH or DB. Oddly enough, nobody ever knows specific groups that allow that, but everyone assures us that they totally exist.

The problem is not meta, but rather how long you will need to grind to get there - and in case of subclassing something like this was never a case in the past.

Think of it.

For the most part, players have like at least 1 character from each class, so if something gets buffed or nerfed - people who want to go for the scoreboards are more or less prepared. Just swap gear, change trait, re-spec skills or CP and you are good to go.

With sub-classing it is not the case as you have to RE-GRIND all of the skills to max level per character. Not only that, but you need to do it fast - before the meta will shift again (which it undoubtedly will at some point). So combo of 3x class skill trees that is meta now will be replaced by some other different 3x class skill trees and at some point you will need to re-level a character with different class all over again, despite already having a full set of maxed out alts from each class.

So this means that in order to be "fully" future-proof you will need to level up every possible combination. We have like what 7 classes ? So that means that every one of them needs to have every single other class tree leveld up. That is like 49 combinations.... good luck with that...

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

My main character, the one I've done all quests on and discovered all points of interest, found all skyshards, learned all crafting, etc. is now obsolete thanks to Subclassing. The builds that I need to stay competitive are no longer possible on my main class, so I must reroll another character and start fresh. Either that or buy skill lines from the crown store and switch characters anytime I need something crafted. You get the idea.

It's also been said before but Subclassing has distilled combat down to maybe 5 skill lines for the serious high-end competitive gameplay.

"oh wow, you're playing XYZ... how original" etc

My warden main is similar to yours in having done a lot of stuff and unlocked most of the game. She's not obsolete to me. I don't care what others think of her. She hasn't been meta beyond being a good healer in all the time I've had her. She still works in PvP as a pure class and can do all the PvE things she did before. I'm not going to subclass her for vet trials, as I honestly have no real interest in those any more.

Seriously, just play the game for fun rather than chasing metas and the flavour of the month. That's what I'm trying now. You can worry about what others think of your build and how you compare in terms of parses. Or do what I did and just accept ESO is going down this subclassing path, but you don't have to follow.

I was never a super meta chaser before, but subclassing has cured me of all interest in "the best" builds. Because what I've seen of the meta builds is just a ridiculous pick-and-mix that I wouldn't inflict on any character I care about. I'm not going to have fun with those builds, so why waste time on them? If ZOS insists on continuing "balancing" that makes pure classes weaker in favour of subclass ones, I'll quit long before I subclass.

darkriketz wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

My main character, the one I've done all quests on and discovered all points of interest, found all skyshards, learned all crafting, etc. is now obsolete thanks to Subclassing. The builds that I need to stay competitive are no longer possible on my main class, so I must reroll another character and start fresh. Either that or buy skill lines from the crown store and switch characters anytime I need something crafted. You get the idea.

It's also been said before but Subclassing has distilled combat down to maybe 5 skill lines for the serious high-end competitive gameplay.

"oh wow, you're playing XYZ... how original" etc

this is the case in every single game. Stop playing/chasing the meta. You can clear content in this game playing a build you want to play, that's what I've done and what I'll always do... Subclassing makes classes vastly more interesting to me and improves on the build variety the game already offered through its extensive gearing system/other passive trees/etc.

We should stop saying them that there's a game beyond PvP, they don't listen.

If this game didn't have PvP I would have never bought it.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

The solution, in my mind, the way to bring these two crowds back together, so a maximally competitive player learns and studies their (sub)class rather than hunts for the newest semi exploit, is to wind down the massive changes that have been nearly relentless since late 2019.

And we've just had the single biggest change in all ESO history. So many will have their complaints and many should be heard.

Good point (about the changes). I remember literally 1/2 of my friends list quit around U35 because of the "non-stop changes". Since then... it's been even more massive changes (seperated by like...2 updates). It's insane that ZoS continues to die on this hill.

I really want to see what data/analytics they have that are making these decisions. Surely... they are making data driven decisions.. right?

I'm not against subclassing in principle, but knowing that there will be "balancing" changes for the next year or so has lead me to shelf this game for the time being. I figure I can come back in a year and update my characters to something that works.

Won't say obsolete myself but the will to continue is withering with every such an update to the game for sure. There was a way to balance between having a distinct character and a tool, now it's just a mechanical tool so attachment part is gone. Which is kinda not good but at the same time obsessing and overreacting over the game that actively goes against you wants and needs isn't a healthiest thing to do.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

The high end competitive gameplay has ALWAYS been very specific, with specific classes with specific armor sets in specific roles, and some classes not desired at all, depending on the content. Subclassing gives you more options in how you play your character, not fewer.

Right, I get that. But my main class was competitive in the type of content that I play and enjoy. Now it's not.

Adding MORE options in how you play your character has the OPPOSITE effect in that certain class skill lines are now the best and if none of those are part of your base class, you're out of luck.

Sorry but this simply isn't true unless you're literally talking about pushing the leaderboard for trials.

Anything that was competitive last patch is still competitive this patch. Sure the ceiling went up a bit, but the bosses didn't get any harder, and anything you were able to do before you're still able to do.

For PvP, pure classes are in no way 'obsolete'. Again, the ceiling went up, but damage also went up across the board with the new mythic. If I can still be plenty competitive on a pure Necro Animate Blastbones Ulti build, you can still be competitive on your build.

Also why do you say you need to reroll? Subclassing literally means you could just slot one new line in if you felt the need to increase your damage.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CrushDepth wrote: »

This is a durn game, and one made up of little 1s and 0s at that. I can not see getting concerned about being "maximally competitive" at or in it, sorry, I just can not.

Get out in the real world, join the Military and perhaps serve your country,(I did not say serve your Government by the way so do not even whine about serving or not serving it) and try that for excitement and adventure. Playing chicken with a Ruskie boat at test depth while answering a Full bell will get that competitive blood rushing.

This is a great bit for a game of darts or billiards at the pub too, "you guys think youre so good, wanna play a REAL game tonight?"

But yeah most of us would rather be on a submarine for sure theyre just way too expensive

You have been reading the wrong news. They are free to get on; getting off is different.