Please fix the Warden's Charm.

mzprx · August 4

dear ZOS,

what the title says. i don't know whos idea was it to add the Charm as a Warden class scribing affix, but it wasn't the best idea ever.

first of all, every small scale tryhard group is running multiple Wardens, of course with their Charm constantly on the ground, so fighting them is like walking on a minefield and you're "charmed" every 8 seconds, no avoiding it, without them having to do pretty much anything, as the Charm can be slotted into a healing skill, so all they have to do is healing themselves and you get an unavoidable "charm". yeah, i know you can dodgeroll out of it, but if you're fighting 3-4 enemies and they all use it there is nowhere to dodgeroll. it's all over the place. other stuns you have to aim at your opponent. Charm you can use whilst running away facing the opposite direction simply by healing yourself.

second, since i started counting (about 4 days ago) i have been "charmed" 6 times into a wall. my character got "charmed", started following my opponent and before i could break free i was inside a wall without the ability to get out of it or do anything about it. so i had to /stuck out of there. but (there's always a but) you can't /stuck in combat (at least that was the message i got when i tried it) i was literally stuck for several minutes, until the fighting around me stopped (every AoE ability anyone used seemed to get me in combat again and again).

not fun at all. could anyone, please, look into this? if you don't do anything about the Charm itself make the walls being impossible to get into whilst being charmed. many thanks.

El_Borracho · August 4

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

Overamera · August 4

you can literally walk out of it before you get charmed, you dont even need to roll dodge. i doubt tryhard groups run 3-4 charms since they usually like to time their stuns with other spells

CameraBeardThePirate · August 4

Overamera wrote: »

you can literally walk out of it before you get charmed, you dont even need to roll dodge. i doubt tryhard groups run 3-4 charms since they usually like to time their stuns with other spells

That doesn’t change the fact that charm is broken and can get you stuck inside walls.

ZOS literally removed the old NB fear that caused you to run away from the player fearing you for that exact same reason, and decided to bring it back to the game with a new coat of paint without fixing the massive bug it had.

xFocused · August 4

Overamera wrote: »

you can literally walk out of it before you get charmed, you dont even need to roll dodge. i doubt tryhard groups run 3-4 charms since they usually like to time their stuns with other spells

Respectfully, this just isn’t true. At the moment on the PS NA GH server there are several ball groups and small scale comped groups running the charm skill. Even just today I somehow got yanked off the top of the Ash mile gate down the stairs and around the stairs all while charmed. There’s also now players now reporting the charm effect is glitching them under the map in Cyrodiil, including myself, lol. It’s a cool skill but it needs a re-work

JustLovely · August 4

El_Borracho wrote: »

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

RoA is worse. At least charm doesn't violate ZOS' own rule sets.

The_Meathead · August 5

JustLovely wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

RoA is worse. At least charm doesn't violate ZOS' own rule sets.

He's referring to the combo of RoA after Ulfsid's with the Charm Script, and how ludicrously effective it is on borking CC immunity and leaving you in a horrible position for a long stretch.

Warden Charm is definitely a problem right now, and it is absolutely being used heavily by small sweat groups because it's just that good.

PureeEvil · August 5

I've been writing about this for a long time in threads where people were complaining about ROA. As a result, over time, more people started using charm, and now we have threads that are no longer just about ROA xD.

Yes, I agree that this ability should be removed from the wardens mastery. It's unclear why it was added and what purpose it serves.

Bubosh · August 5

Biggest reason why ppl take it is because they love whenever this skill makes the enemy charm locked without being able to break free out of it anymore what grants them the easiest Playstyle and kills whenever it gets to the buggy point especially and even without the bug happening this skill makes fighting ppl still so damn easy and boring. The worst at the end is zos tho and them not hot fixing/changing this skill as soon as they found out it is bugging out ppl into stun lock situation constantly. Everyone abusing this skill while knowing it's bugging out ppl takes a big L by using it in my opinion It's no front but yeah I dislike players abusing game bugs to their advantage just so they finally can get someone killed in this game.(As if it wouldn't be already way too easy with the DMG CRIT and so on to get a kill down)
Edit: And yes if being chased by X this will grant you insane survivability while kiting since you can almost charm all chasers behind you on CD which grants you a lot time overall and a lot less DPS inc also overtime in fights, such a joke how easy it is to survive against X with it its almost sad.

Turtle_Bot · August 5

If you can't beat em, Charm em.

Honestly, it has gotten ridiculous though with how many bugs/issues the charm mechanic has (and has had for so long now essentially being the old fear mechanic).

Although it is funny to watch the sweats eat one of your charms as they try to sweat you down with theirs. Now everyone gliding around the dance floor unable to break free, not just you.

a_u_s_t_y · August 5

This skill is over performing for pvp in duels and in open world.

It’s an undodgable/unblockable 360 aoe delayed cc that requires no targeting and has no cap on how many people if effects and also it can be put on a cheap scribing skill that does multiple effects.

At the moment this means:

- some subclsssing builds don’t need to run a stun skill, they just double up a heal with charm and save bar space

- Timing the break free to the delayed cc is extremely hard vs good players that apply pressure, all while they line up their burst combo in the 3 sec window before the cc… also breaking free from this first time is 50/50

- the area of effect is too big.. if you don’t time your dodge roll perfectly to get out of the aoe you can end up still being charmed, wasting stamina on the dodge roll and then the break free, no need to run resource drain pots if using charm.. you will drain all your opponents stam just by casting this every 4 sec

- this skill provides a passive way to escape, if you are being chased, drop the aoe, charm your chasers and get away, no need to turn and target, no need to stay in range of opponents to stun them.

Simply making it dodgable or blockable or making the area of effect smaller would help balance it

El_Borracho · August 5

The_Meathead wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

RoA is worse. At least charm doesn't violate ZOS' own rule sets.

He's referring to the combo of RoA after Ulfsid's with the Charm Script, and how ludicrously effective it is on borking CC immunity and leaving you in a horrible position for a long stretch.

Warden Charm is definitely a problem right now, and it is absolutely being used heavily by small sweat groups because it's just that good.

Exactly. Its unbelievably effective in a small group, i.e. 4-6 players max, and it does not obey CC immunity. And I love the advice of "just walk away" or "roll dodge." Wow. Why didn't I think of that?

gc0018 · August 8

Guess what, you can see 3-4 wardens in 4v4 battle ground now. And everyone acts like a blind fly. Bugless game experience

CameraBeardThePirate · August 8

El_Borracho wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

RoA is worse. At least charm doesn't violate ZOS' own rule sets.

He's referring to the combo of RoA after Ulfsid's with the Charm Script, and how ludicrously effective it is on borking CC immunity and leaving you in a horrible position for a long stretch.

Warden Charm is definitely a problem right now, and it is absolutely being used heavily by small sweat groups because it's just that good.

Exactly. Its unbelievably effective in a small group, i.e. 4-6 players max, and it does not obey CC immunity. And I love the advice of "just walk away" or "roll dodge." Wow. Why didn't I think of that?

Not sure if you're referring to Charm or RoA, but Charm does obey CC immunity. Technically speaking, RoA also "obeys" CC immunity, it just doesn't apply CC immunity. Neither CC will affect you if you have CC immunity, and Charm applies CC immunity the same as any other stun in the game besides RoA.

El_Borracho · August 11

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

RoA is worse. At least charm doesn't violate ZOS' own rule sets.

He's referring to the combo of RoA after Ulfsid's with the Charm Script, and how ludicrously effective it is on borking CC immunity and leaving you in a horrible position for a long stretch.

Warden Charm is definitely a problem right now, and it is absolutely being used heavily by small sweat groups because it's just that good.

Exactly. Its unbelievably effective in a small group, i.e. 4-6 players max, and it does not obey CC immunity. And I love the advice of "just walk away" or "roll dodge." Wow. Why didn't I think of that?

Not sure if you're referring to Charm or RoA, but Charm does obey CC immunity. Technically speaking, RoA also "obeys" CC immunity, it just doesn't apply CC immunity. Neither CC will affect you if you have CC immunity, and Charm applies CC immunity the same as any other stun in the game besides RoA.

So what I'm referring to with Charm is that I have been "charmed," as in my guy turns, starts the zombie walk, and is says "charm" or whatever over his head. I break free from that and INSTANTLY get charmed again. And again. And again.

That should not happen if the first Charm (or the second) applied CC immunity. And in the situation where 4-6 players are laying down multiple Charm AOE's you can't escape before your stamina drains unless you have Streak or Shade or another teleport skill

JohnRingo · August 12

Hey guys. I posted this inside a poll on a different post but also wanted to post here where this perspective is more relevant:

PvP Main here. Here is an alternative perspective for you from Cyrodil. I run solo but was part of approximately 20 skilled randoms inside a keep. We were attacking a well organized ball group of approximately 10-12 doing laps in a keep. We were able to finally break them down and defeat them thanks in large part to consistent Charm spam. In this particular case, Charm was a ball group breaker, in my opinion.

MincMincMinc · August 12

Man weird a topic that has been getting double threads for months now, I wonder if zos will pick up on the fact that there is an issue?

Vaqual · August 12

JohnRingo wrote: »

Hey guys. I posted this inside a poll on a different post but also wanted to post here where this perspective is more relevant:

PvP Main here. Here is an alternative perspective for you from Cyrodil. I run solo but was part of approximately 20 skilled randoms inside a keep. We were attacking a well organized ball group of approximately 10-12 doing laps in a keep. We were able to finally break them down and defeat them thanks in large part to consistent Charm spam. In this particular case, Charm was a ball group breaker, in my opinion.

Gratz, one evil defeated the other evil, and neither of them is necessary.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 12

El_Borracho wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

RoA is worse. At least charm doesn't violate ZOS' own rule sets.

He's referring to the combo of RoA after Ulfsid's with the Charm Script, and how ludicrously effective it is on borking CC immunity and leaving you in a horrible position for a long stretch.

Warden Charm is definitely a problem right now, and it is absolutely being used heavily by small sweat groups because it's just that good.

Exactly. Its unbelievably effective in a small group, i.e. 4-6 players max, and it does not obey CC immunity. And I love the advice of "just walk away" or "roll dodge." Wow. Why didn't I think of that?

Not sure if you're referring to Charm or RoA, but Charm does obey CC immunity. Technically speaking, RoA also "obeys" CC immunity, it just doesn't apply CC immunity. Neither CC will affect you if you have CC immunity, and Charm applies CC immunity the same as any other stun in the game besides RoA.

So what I'm referring to with Charm is that I have been "charmed," as in my guy turns, starts the zombie walk, and is says "charm" or whatever over his head. I break free from that and INSTANTLY get charmed again. And again. And again.

That should not happen if the first Charm (or the second) applied CC immunity. And in the situation where 4-6 players are laying down multiple Charm AOE's you can't escape before your stamina drains unless you have Streak or Shade or another teleport skill

Gonna be real, I'll need to see some proof before I believe that. I PvP a lot and I've never seen that happen. Not saying you're lying, but for a bug that egregious you need to show a video of it as I've yet to see that occur.

El_Borracho · August 12

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

The_Meathead wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

It is by far the most annoying skill in PVP. When you stop and think about all of the skills and sets they have nerfed or wrecked over the years because they were "overperforming," only to give us the combo of ROA and Charm, its infuriating.

RoA is worse. At least charm doesn't violate ZOS' own rule sets.

He's referring to the combo of RoA after Ulfsid's with the Charm Script, and how ludicrously effective it is on borking CC immunity and leaving you in a horrible position for a long stretch.

Warden Charm is definitely a problem right now, and it is absolutely being used heavily by small sweat groups because it's just that good.

Exactly. Its unbelievably effective in a small group, i.e. 4-6 players max, and it does not obey CC immunity. And I love the advice of "just walk away" or "roll dodge." Wow. Why didn't I think of that?

Not sure if you're referring to Charm or RoA, but Charm does obey CC immunity. Technically speaking, RoA also "obeys" CC immunity, it just doesn't apply CC immunity. Neither CC will affect you if you have CC immunity, and Charm applies CC immunity the same as any other stun in the game besides RoA.

So what I'm referring to with Charm is that I have been "charmed," as in my guy turns, starts the zombie walk, and is says "charm" or whatever over his head. I break free from that and INSTANTLY get charmed again. And again. And again.

That should not happen if the first Charm (or the second) applied CC immunity. And in the situation where 4-6 players are laying down multiple Charm AOE's you can't escape before your stamina drains unless you have Streak or Shade or another teleport skill

Gonna be real, I'll need to see some proof before I believe that. I PvP a lot and I've never seen that happen. Not saying you're lying, but for a bug that egregious you need to show a video of it as I've yet to see that occur.

No biggie. I'll try to get a clip next time I play. Its on PS-NA, by the way.

Oblivion_Protocol · August 13

At, this point, it’s best to just accept it. I’ve had the charm on my bomber and I’ve never killed so many people so quickly. Frankly, I hope it never goes away. Mostly because people will just gravitate to the next broken thing that doesn’t obey CC immunity, or whatever.

MincMincMinc · August 13

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

At, this point, it’s best to just accept it. I’ve had the charm on my bomber and I’ve never killed so many people so quickly. Frankly, I hope it never goes away. Mostly because people will just gravitate to the next broken thing that doesn’t obey CC immunity, or whatever.

Gotta love it. Fixes one design mistake, just to release the same design mistake next patch. Patches broken cc, just to release another

El_Borracho · August 14

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

At, this point, it’s best to just accept it. I’ve had the charm on my bomber and I’ve never killed so many people so quickly. Frankly, I hope it never goes away. Mostly because people will just gravitate to the next broken thing that doesn’t obey CC immunity, or whatever.

Oh, its a dream for bombers. But you are correct. I'm just waiting for them to make a version of ROA but instead of a pull, its a charm that doesn't trigger CC immunity that you can wear with ROA. Then a monster set or mythic that stuns without causing CC immunity. You know, for balance.

xylena_lazarow · August 14

Make it a normal stun, not a resurrected Fear bug from 5 years ago. Now everyone counters it like normal.

What roleplay were they even going for that they couldn't use a normal stun?

katorga · August 23

The problem is that warden is THE ONLY class to play right now due the class script.

kiwi_tea · August 24

Within the visual clutter of larger fights it's hard to spot the visual on the head. It could really benefit from a nice loud thematic audio proc.

It also just needs adjusting badly. If you happen to be moving the direction it's about to pull you on 200 ping, with break free being buggy and unresponsive at the very best of full-stam-not-stam-checked-times, it's often certain death before you can notice you're not in control.

ArchMikem · August 28

It feels like the charm barely has any kind of global cool down, it kept hitting me over and over. How's a guy supposed to melee if he drains stamina constantly breaking free?

Bogaisha · August 28

Welcome to the fear bug from way back when vamp mDK got nerfed and all the flavor of the year vamp mDKs rerolled stamblade and would spam fear if you got them in execute range—because it bypassed cc immunity. 2015 iirc

mzprx · August 28

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

- the area of effect is too big.. if you don’t time your dodge roll perfectly to get out of the aoe you can end up still being charmed, wasting stamina on the dodge roll and then the break free, no need to run resource drain pots if using charm.. you will drain all your opponents stam just by casting this every 4 sec

this. i forgot to mention it in my original post. it happens almost all the time.

also, when you're fighting a Warden(s) in tight spaces (like resource towers, keeps, outposts) the Charm area usually covers pretty much all available space. i can't even count how many times i fought a group of Wardens in a resource tower, all of them were using their class script, of course and there was pretty much nowhere to dodgeroll or escape. one of the reasons why i will NOT go into a tower ever again. with this silly script it's a death sentence.

ZOS should think before they do something. they should also look into suggestions their players make. like Battle Spirit should limit the amount of HoTs a player can receive (no yellow Vigor/other HoTs stacking in ball groups). or every other set they released to deal with ball groups, only to see all those sets being used and abused by ball groups themselves. ball group should be tough and hard to deal with, not an entity you need the whole server to kill. which is the case ATM. limiting the sources of healing (you get ONE source of a healing ability, regardless if it's from you or your healer) would bring ballance in PvP. we know it, they don't seem to. instead they release sets like Spellshredder and think "job well done". as if a ball group with 30k HoTs running all the time on everyone cares about the one dude who wears that particular set.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 28

mzprx wrote: »

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

- the area of effect is too big.. if you don’t time your dodge roll perfectly to get out of the aoe you can end up still being charmed, wasting stamina on the dodge roll and then the break free, no need to run resource drain pots if using charm.. you will drain all your opponents stam just by casting this every 4 sec

this. i forgot to mention it in my original post. it happens almost all the time.

also, when you're fighting a Warden(s) in tight spaces (like resource towers, keeps, outposts) the Charm area usually covers pretty much all available space. i can't even count how many times i fought a group of Wardens in a resource tower, all of them were using their class script, of course and there was pretty much nowhere to dodgeroll or escape. one of the reasons why i will NOT go into a tower ever again. with this silly script it's a death sentence.

ZOS should think before they do something. they should also look into suggestions their players make. like Battle Spirit should limit the amount of HoTs a player can receive (no yellow Vigor/other HoTs stacking in ball groups). or every other set they released to deal with ball groups, only to see all those sets being used and abused by ball groups themselves. ball group should be tough and hard to deal with, not an entity you need the whole server to kill. which is the case ATM. limiting the sources of healing (you get ONE source of a healing ability, regardless if it's from you or your healer) would bring ballance in PvP. we know it, they don't seem to. instead they release sets like Spellshredder and think "job well done". as if a ball group with 30k HoTs running all the time on everyone cares about the one dude who wears that particular set.

Sets like that aren't designed for 1 person to wear them, they are designed for smaller groups zergsurfing amongst their faction to be able to kill the larger group through coordination. For example 2-3m coordinated bombs using that set.

Alchimiste1 · August 30

Just wanted to weigh in. It’s not that the combination of warden charm and ROA produces a bug, it’s the fact that if utilized correctly (especially with a certain script) it allows for an almost 0 counterplay combo. If you try to block and walk out you’ll get charmed and if you try and roll dodge out you get pulled into charm. Only real counterplay is to pop immov or hope streak goes off in time.

2 notes:

when I was playing acuity Jabs plar last patch I noticed that some times the animation for charm didn’t go off but it was still there and stunning people. I don’t know if that was because of lag or because of some strange interaction with an angled slope.

I have not played this current patch. I don’t know if the change to ROA fixed this combination and allows for counterplay.