3 bars of afk & questers in cyrodiil, nice pvp event

Xarc · July 30

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

Well, I just want to say something about that.
It's perfectly normal for a veteran PVP player to literally destroy a group of casual players who have absolutely no experience with PvP. Even though huge efforts have been made by the ZOS combat staff; it's still normal for there to be a level gap.

And that's something pretty healthy for an online game, because it can make you want to progress if you consider that it's just experience (and not cheating)

licenturion · July 30

Xarc wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

Well, I just want to say something about that.
It's perfectly normal for a veteran PVP player to literally destroy a group of casual players who have absolutely no experience with PvP. Even though huge efforts have been made by the ZOS combat staff; it's still normal for there to be a level gap.

And that's something pretty healthy for an online game, because it can make you want to progress if you consider that it's just experience (and not cheating)

This all is why those kind of people are soooooooo afraid of Vengeance becoming an optional thing and are actively campaigning to avoid it from happening in some form.

Because all the easy meat and people looking for a more balanced environment would move over and those other unkillable one shot people have to fight each other because all other players would have either gone to Vengeance or back to PvE.

Thumbless_Bot · July 30

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

gj zos.

2 bars on each faction is at cropsford running quests. .5 bar of people who gain a sense of self-esteem by ganking those 2 bars while they're turning in quests in cropsford and .5 bars of the regular pvp crowd sitting on a wall wondering how this is healthy for cyro and pvp in general...

Gj zos..

Yes, shame gankers and questers into repairing walls. How can they not see what PvP is all about?

Not shaming. Just stating facts. These events are aimed at exposing pve players to pvp to drum up sustained interest in pvp. To elaborate on my summary above, it is likely very difficult to be interested in staying and / or returning to something as toxic as what I described above if you aren’t a sweat already.

Zos can't (or won't) fix the issues. Instead they come up with vengeance so three different barbarian hordes can spam limited skills on each other until the math calculation completes and the largest team wins.

This watered down cyro will be fun for two weeks and then everyone, sweats and all, will move on to things that are more interesting, complex and fun.

I don't agree really. No offense intended, but this is just an opinion presented as a fact. Getting ganked while questing is the perfect hero/villain arc starter. These small scale skirmishes with poor gankers were a million times more attractive than the keep grind was for me as a noob. Just as completing quests with a pulse of 180 is something only Cyro and IC offer. For me questing (as a newbie) and ganking was much more straightforward and fun than zerging, ball groups and repairing stuff.
While the game clearly has glaring balancing issues, people playing Cyro wrong is hardly the problem. Zerging and green points just isn't attractive enough to sell the Cyro play style for some, and in the end no one has to login to play for someone elses entertainment. And if I end up in a quester and ganker filled campgain I might even have more fun than in a regular campaign.

Nothing I said was opinion. You are focusing on one very small detail about the motivation of gankers to try and question the actual point of what I was saying. Talk about rabbit hole...

Anyway, there is no world, real world anyway, where the motivation behind repeatedly shooting fish swimming in a barrel is anything other than filling a personal hole so you can feel good about yourself. We can agree to disagree on that. But my point stands.

Pvp is toxic because zos cant make it not toxic. They just cant do it. Zos cannot make pvp fun for new players because they cant remove the toxicity because they dont know enough about pvp to do so. I think this is because they dont care about pvp... this is opinion. I do not think zos employees know how to pvp in eso and make decisions that illustrate this every single release/patch.

Xarc · July 30

licenturion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

Well, I just want to say something about that.
It's perfectly normal for a veteran PVP player to literally destroy a group of casual players who have absolutely no experience with PvP. Even though huge efforts have been made by the ZOS combat staff; it's still normal for there to be a level gap.

And that's something pretty healthy for an online game, because it can make you want to progress if you consider that it's just experience (and not cheating)

This all is why those kind of people are soooooooo afraid of Vengeance becoming a thing and are actively campaigning to avoid it from happening in some form.

Because all the easy meat and people looking for a more balanced environment would move over and those other unkillable one shot people have to fight each other because all other players would have either gone to Vengeance or back to PvP.

Yes and no.

Yes because decent pvp players often wear very elaborate sets, down to the 1%. Sometimes it involves long months or years of research
No because a real decent veteran pvp player doesnt fear vengeance since it's only skill based game.

Thumbless_Bot · July 30

Xarc wrote: »

licenturion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

Well, I just want to say something about that.
It's perfectly normal for a veteran PVP player to literally destroy a group of casual players who have absolutely no experience with PvP. Even though huge efforts have been made by the ZOS combat staff; it's still normal for there to be a level gap.

And that's something pretty healthy for an online game, because it can make you want to progress if you consider that it's just experience (and not cheating)

This all is why those kind of people are soooooooo afraid of Vengeance becoming a thing and are actively campaigning to avoid it from happening in some form.

Because all the easy meat and people looking for a more balanced environment would move over and those other unkillable one shot people have to fight each other because all other players would have either gone to Vengeance or back to PvP.

Yes and no.

Yes because decent pvp players often wear very elaborate sets, down to the 1%. Sometimes it involves long months or years of research
No because a real decent veteran pvp player doesnt fear vengeance since it's only skill based game.

Disliking vengeance for most sweaty pvp players is not about fear. It's about the format being very dry, boring and not repeatable after about a week.

LadyGP · July 30

Said this in another topic but the problem isn't that there aren't enough pvp'ers.

The problem is two fold.

1) The queue to get into GH is 1.5-2 hours long. I have queued the last 4 days around 5:30 cst and am lucky if I get in by 7:30 or 8pm. (the queue also often gets hung and your friends in queue pass you so you have to requeue... this is another topic for another day).

2) Once you get in you'll notice tons of afk people running macros. Just run around the area behind the gate, look in the corners, look in the hills, you'll see people all over the place "hiding" and just randomly light attacking or jumping every 30 seconds.

This is why the queue is so long. This is why it feels like no one is playing... because they aren't. ZoS needs to fix this... it's been an issue for many years. Each MYM the queue gets longer because people realize if they don't login early then use an afk macro they won't be on time for raid or be there for prime time.

It's absolutley (crap) that it is this way but... this is where we are.

Again, when you say Cyro is dead Zos will say well the q is over 100 so clearly it isn't...

It's dead because of the afk macros.

Koshka · July 30

Xarc wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

Well, I just want to say something about that.
It's perfectly normal for a veteran PVP player to literally destroy a group of casual players who have absolutely no experience with PvP. Even though huge efforts have been made by the ZOS combat staff; it's still normal for there to be a level gap.

And that's something pretty healthy for an online game, because it can make you want to progress if you consider that it's just experience (and not cheating)

It's not that having a power gap is a bad thing, it's how big it is. And let's be honest, it's not just a skill gap, it's a knowledge and gear gap.
Also, pvpers being overzealous when it comes to hunting "noobs" instead of fighting other pvpers leaves a really bad impression. It's like cyro pvpers nowadays don't want to be challenged in any way and don't want any new people to join their ranks.
Sure, it might be fun to be invincible and oneshot people, but consider this: the "zerglings" you erase are not mobs, they are actual people. And what will they think when they see a group of players not only not dying, but also not taking any visible damage at all? They will just see that they stand no chance and likely won't give cyro another try. And yes, some of them might get angry and start throwing cheating accusations, but can you really not see why it looks this way to casuals?
This game's pvp balance was always broken, but now it's nonexistant. And THAT is not healthy. People in pvp games should always feel like they'd have a chance at winning if they try hard enough, but nowadays it's pretty much gone.

Vaqual · July 30

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

gj zos.

2 bars on each faction is at cropsford running quests. .5 bar of people who gain a sense of self-esteem by ganking those 2 bars while they're turning in quests in cropsford and .5 bars of the regular pvp crowd sitting on a wall wondering how this is healthy for cyro and pvp in general...

Gj zos..

Yes, shame gankers and questers into repairing walls. How can they not see what PvP is all about?

Not shaming. Just stating facts. These events are aimed at exposing pve players to pvp to drum up sustained interest in pvp. To elaborate on my summary above, it is likely very difficult to be interested in staying and / or returning to something as toxic as what I described above if you aren’t a sweat already.

Zos can't (or won't) fix the issues. Instead they come up with vengeance so three different barbarian hordes can spam limited skills on each other until the math calculation completes and the largest team wins.

This watered down cyro will be fun for two weeks and then everyone, sweats and all, will move on to things that are more interesting, complex and fun.

I don't agree really. No offense intended, but this is just an opinion presented as a fact. Getting ganked while questing is the perfect hero/villain arc starter. These small scale skirmishes with poor gankers were a million times more attractive than the keep grind was for me as a noob. Just as completing quests with a pulse of 180 is something only Cyro and IC offer. For me questing (as a newbie) and ganking was much more straightforward and fun than zerging, ball groups and repairing stuff.
While the game clearly has glaring balancing issues, people playing Cyro wrong is hardly the problem. Zerging and green points just isn't attractive enough to sell the Cyro play style for some, and in the end no one has to login to play for someone elses entertainment. And if I end up in a quester and ganker filled campgain I might even have more fun than in a regular campaign.

Nothing I said was opinion. You are focusing on one very small detail about the motivation of gankers to try and question the actual point of what I was saying. Talk about rabbit hole...

Anyway, there is no world, real world anyway, where the motivation behind repeatedly shooting fish swimming in a barrel is anything other than filling a personal hole so you can feel good about yourself. We can agree to disagree on that. But my point stands.

Pvp is toxic because zos cant make it not toxic. They just cant do it. Zos cannot make pvp fun for new players because they cant remove the toxicity because they dont know enough about pvp to do so. I think this is because they dont care about pvp... this is opinion. I do not think zos employees know how to pvp in eso and make decisions that illustrate this every single release/patch.

I am not just going to let it stand like that. I am not a fan of spelling everything out, but you know the implication is that you get to hunt questers, gankers and/or counter-gankers until you find fun? This neither about shooting fish in a barrel nor about filling holes. This dismissal is just helplessness manifested. Can you find your fun without the need for ZOS to change other peoples behaviours for you?

Thumbless_Bot · July 30

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

gj zos.

2 bars on each faction is at cropsford running quests. .5 bar of people who gain a sense of self-esteem by ganking those 2 bars while they're turning in quests in cropsford and .5 bars of the regular pvp crowd sitting on a wall wondering how this is healthy for cyro and pvp in general...

Gj zos..

Yes, shame gankers and questers into repairing walls. How can they not see what PvP is all about?

Not shaming. Just stating facts. These events are aimed at exposing pve players to pvp to drum up sustained interest in pvp. To elaborate on my summary above, it is likely very difficult to be interested in staying and / or returning to something as toxic as what I described above if you aren’t a sweat already.

Zos can't (or won't) fix the issues. Instead they come up with vengeance so three different barbarian hordes can spam limited skills on each other until the math calculation completes and the largest team wins.

This watered down cyro will be fun for two weeks and then everyone, sweats and all, will move on to things that are more interesting, complex and fun.

I don't agree really. No offense intended, but this is just an opinion presented as a fact. Getting ganked while questing is the perfect hero/villain arc starter. These small scale skirmishes with poor gankers were a million times more attractive than the keep grind was for me as a noob. Just as completing quests with a pulse of 180 is something only Cyro and IC offer. For me questing (as a newbie) and ganking was much more straightforward and fun than zerging, ball groups and repairing stuff.
While the game clearly has glaring balancing issues, people playing Cyro wrong is hardly the problem. Zerging and green points just isn't attractive enough to sell the Cyro play style for some, and in the end no one has to login to play for someone elses entertainment. And if I end up in a quester and ganker filled campgain I might even have more fun than in a regular campaign.

Nothing I said was opinion. You are focusing on one very small detail about the motivation of gankers to try and question the actual point of what I was saying. Talk about rabbit hole...

Anyway, there is no world, real world anyway, where the motivation behind repeatedly shooting fish swimming in a barrel is anything other than filling a personal hole so you can feel good about yourself. We can agree to disagree on that. But my point stands.

Pvp is toxic because zos cant make it not toxic. They just cant do it. Zos cannot make pvp fun for new players because they cant remove the toxicity because they dont know enough about pvp to do so. I think this is because they dont care about pvp... this is opinion. I do not think zos employees know how to pvp in eso and make decisions that illustrate this every single release/patch.

I am not just going to let it stand like that. I am not a fan of spelling everything out, but you know the implication is that you get to hunt questers, gankers and/or counter-gankers until you find fun? This neither about shooting fish in a barrel nor about filling holes. This dismissal is just helplessness manifested. Can you find your fun without the need for ZOS to change other peoples behaviours for you?

I can. I have been in cyro for10 years. I didn't start out knowing how to x gankers. No sweat did.

You are missing the point because you want to foment on one small detail. Good luck.

YandereGirlfriend · July 30

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

This is a common misconception but ballgroups fight each other all the time. There are also intense personal/group rivalries and hatreds. Groups and their leaders have egos just like 1vX players have egos, etc.

However, many of these fights occur in wilderness areas because neither side wants the RNG of a zone player killing them by being the spark that catalyzes the Vicious Death or Plaguebreak chain-reaction. If there ARE such players around then it is 1000% the cheese strategy to stack your enemies with them precisely because it makes it so much easier to kill them.

YandereGirlfriend · July 30

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

It depends upon your attitude to encountering that power gap.

You could be sad or salty about it or you could be inspired to get on that level and become that skilled yourself. This comes down to one's individual constitution.

Some of my earliest posts on this forum were literally being a salty zergling complaining about not being able to kill skilled 1vX'ers in towers. Rather then being permanently turned-off from PvP because I couldn't get the easy win, however, I took is as a challenge to improve as a player and have been a PvP main player ever since.

Most Ls in PvP genuinely are from being outplayed or outsmarted. It is only the level of one's ego that influences how much one tries to avoid that fact and blame something else.

licenturion · July 30

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Some of my earliest posts on this forum were literally being a salty zergling complaining about not being able to kill skilled 1vX'ers in towers. Rather then being permanently turned-off from PvP because I couldn't get the easy win, however, I took is as a challenge to improve as a player and have been a PvP main player ever since.

Most Ls in PvP genuinely are from being outplayed or outsmarted. It is only the level of one's ego that influences how much one tries to avoid that fact and blame something else.

In this day and age of gaming, this type of reaction is the minority.

Especially now that the gap has gotten so immensely big and time consuming that most people won't bother and just play other games to get their PvP fix that are more accessible and beginner friendly. There are so many PvP games there (lots of them even free) that people just go elsewhere.

Vaqual · July 30

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

gj zos.

2 bars on each faction is at cropsford running quests. .5 bar of people who gain a sense of self-esteem by ganking those 2 bars while they're turning in quests in cropsford and .5 bars of the regular pvp crowd sitting on a wall wondering how this is healthy for cyro and pvp in general...

Gj zos..

Yes, shame gankers and questers into repairing walls. How can they not see what PvP is all about?

Not shaming. Just stating facts. These events are aimed at exposing pve players to pvp to drum up sustained interest in pvp. To elaborate on my summary above, it is likely very difficult to be interested in staying and / or returning to something as toxic as what I described above if you aren’t a sweat already.

Zos can't (or won't) fix the issues. Instead they come up with vengeance so three different barbarian hordes can spam limited skills on each other until the math calculation completes and the largest team wins.

This watered down cyro will be fun for two weeks and then everyone, sweats and all, will move on to things that are more interesting, complex and fun.

I don't agree really. No offense intended, but this is just an opinion presented as a fact. Getting ganked while questing is the perfect hero/villain arc starter. These small scale skirmishes with poor gankers were a million times more attractive than the keep grind was for me as a noob. Just as completing quests with a pulse of 180 is something only Cyro and IC offer. For me questing (as a newbie) and ganking was much more straightforward and fun than zerging, ball groups and repairing stuff.
While the game clearly has glaring balancing issues, people playing Cyro wrong is hardly the problem. Zerging and green points just isn't attractive enough to sell the Cyro play style for some, and in the end no one has to login to play for someone elses entertainment. And if I end up in a quester and ganker filled campgain I might even have more fun than in a regular campaign.

Nothing I said was opinion. You are focusing on one very small detail about the motivation of gankers to try and question the actual point of what I was saying. Talk about rabbit hole...

Anyway, there is no world, real world anyway, where the motivation behind repeatedly shooting fish swimming in a barrel is anything other than filling a personal hole so you can feel good about yourself. We can agree to disagree on that. But my point stands.

Pvp is toxic because zos cant make it not toxic. They just cant do it. Zos cannot make pvp fun for new players because they cant remove the toxicity because they dont know enough about pvp to do so. I think this is because they dont care about pvp... this is opinion. I do not think zos employees know how to pvp in eso and make decisions that illustrate this every single release/patch.

I am not just going to let it stand like that. I am not a fan of spelling everything out, but you know the implication is that you get to hunt questers, gankers and/or counter-gankers until you find fun? This neither about shooting fish in a barrel nor about filling holes. This dismissal is just helplessness manifested. Can you find your fun without the need for ZOS to change other peoples behaviours for you?

I can. I have been in cyro for10 years. I didn't start out knowing how to x gankers. No sweat did.

You are missing the point because you want to foment on one small detail. Good luck.

It seems I am. I tried to look for it again in your posts but I can't find it. Are you sure you made one? I get that the "Good luck" means that you aren't interested in the conversation anymore, but the subtle insults in your expression work against that intent.

My bottom line is that there are certainly many fair points to be made, as to how bad balancing affects PvP negatively. AFKers are also a bigger issue, since the pop caps are so low. But to claim players pursuing their version of fun is "unhealthy" for a campaign is just absurd to me. Working off player behaviour is a core principle in MMOs and sometimes the fun isn't were the score is being pushed. Formulaic and predictable fights (builds, comps, siege strats) are probably the most fatiguing and boring thing about PvP. Having a campaign locked without a fair fight for keeps can be just as fine as a fully balanced Cyro map. What counts is only how many players are enjoying their time, no matter what the self titled "regular crowd" thinks about them.

Koshka · July 30

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

It depends upon your attitude to encountering that power gap.

You could be sad or salty about it or you could be inspired to get on that level and become that skilled yourself. This comes down to one's individual constitution.

Some of my earliest posts on this forum were literally being a salty zergling complaining about not being able to kill skilled 1vX'ers in towers. Rather then being permanently turned-off from PvP because I couldn't get the easy win, however, I took is as a challenge to improve as a player and have been a PvP main player ever since.

Most Ls in PvP genuinely are from being outplayed or outsmarted. It is only the level of one's ego that influences how much one tries to avoid that fact and blame something else.

I don't disagree in theory. Of course, it's nice to have inspirations and goals. But I've been playing on an off since 2015, and Ive met many pvp players, including really good 1vXers and duelists, who quit the game because of performance and balance issues. And even more players who were simply turned off by this to the point of not even trying pvp anymore. I don't think we should ignore these issues. Huge balance issues only cause toxicity from both casual and hardcore sides. It is already a problem in pve, but in pvp it's even worse because you can't choose who you are playing against.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

This is a common misconception but ballgroups fight each other all the time. There are also intense personal/group rivalries and hatreds. Groups and their leaders have egos just like 1vX players have egos, etc.

However, many of these fights occur in wilderness areas because neither side wants the RNG of a zone player killing them by being the spark that catalyzes the Vicious Death or Plaguebreak chain-reaction. If there ARE such players around then it is 1000% the cheese strategy to stack your enemies with them precisely because it makes it so much easier to kill them.

I mean, yeah, it's not very fun to randomly get killed by something you have no control over. But being mad about getting cheesed when using super cheesy setups to farm randoms is kinda hypocritical, isn't it?

Vulkunne · July 31

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.

Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.

Koshka is right.

During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.

2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it !
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.

As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.

It depends upon your attitude to encountering that power gap.

You could be sad or salty about it or you could be inspired to get on that level and become that skilled yourself. This comes down to one's individual constitution.

Some of my earliest posts on this forum were literally being a salty zergling complaining about not being able to kill skilled 1vX'ers in towers. Rather then being permanently turned-off from PvP because I couldn't get the easy win, however, I took is as a challenge to improve as a player and have been a PvP main player ever since.

Most Ls in PvP genuinely are from being outplayed or outsmarted. It is only the level of one's ego that influences how much one tries to avoid that fact and blame something else.

Ball Groupers have an ego too and it's on full display both here and in other threads as well. To begin with, many of us have skills, you don't need to be a Ball-Grouper to have skills. Being part of a Ball Group, does not mean you are skilled in anything necessarily except repetition. It also means you a friend. Well, I'm not a friend, I'm just 'me'.

Your reply really seems to indicate that you think the Ball Group players are on a level above everyone else, but they really are in fact, on a level less than everyone else because they're not playing PvP like the rest of us. It's been my experience that we never really get anything from a Ball Group other than silence and them doing rather cruel things to people whom they call us elitists, but yet, they display elitist behavior as well. It's really them with the ego and they need to come down a peg and game with the rest of us instead of basically relying on exploits and computers to pool buffs for them. 1 group of 8 to 15 people wiping two factions on same server and stealing a scroll that faction worked hard to siege and take, with all of this continuing for an hour or more without them getting wiped, means there's something broken about the game.

It's not a thing to be admired and it's one reason I stopped PvPing mainstream. I could go on about how selfish and ugly ball groups have been not just to me, but many of us, however it won't matter cause no cares. So, I'll PvP in a different way and do my own thing. Vengeance if nothing else proved we don't need Ball Groups. I've worked in various places before and there's nothing worse than having people on your Team who start a clique and work against everyone else not part of it. It destroys moral and people move on. And that's what is happening with ESO PvP in Cyrodiil. Ball Group is the clique just like New World has Companies. And both are bad for PvP and for moral because they contribute nothing and feel they're above everyone else. As long as it's like this you can look for PvP to continue to diminish.

I know that this is something that, during my time on here I have discussed more and more often. I'm sure some Ball Groups may intend to be helpful but some of us, which includes me and others I know are just sick of dealing with this double standard and um people just standing around letting us get killed. Letting us know that your ball group doesn't fight for us or we're not one of you, whatever it is. So, if it seems some of us are kind of angry it's because we are. This elitist behavior has really changed the dynamic of the game for many people, and it will continue to do so. Even if we were to stop posting the problem will not go away until it gets fixed. I'm not happy about previous experiences but I'm more looking for a fix to their exploitive behavior than I am looking to punish people. Playing this game with them is punishment enough quite frankly.

Elvenheart · July 31

ESO has one form of PvP that’s consistently overlooked, and that’s these forums. Most of the posts I read nowadays are very player versus player oriented and demonstrate all sorts of skills used against one another to try to win the day in whatever discussion that’s happening in a given topic.

MagdaV · July 31

EP GH PC/NA... this is all the time lol There is ALWAYS tons of people AFK. Anytime it says 2/3bars, we automatically subtract one. XD We're used to it.

Stamicka · July 31

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

It depends upon your attitude to encountering that power gap.

You could be sad or salty about it or you could be inspired to get on that level and become that skilled yourself. This comes down to one's individual constitution.

Some of my earliest posts on this forum were literally being a salty zergling complaining about not being able to kill skilled 1vX'ers in towers. Rather then being permanently turned-off from PvP because I couldn't get the easy win, however, I took is as a challenge to improve as a player and have been a PvP main player ever since.

Most Ls in PvP genuinely are from being outplayed or outsmarted. It is only the level of one's ego that influences how much one tries to avoid that fact and blame something else.

Umm no... skill gaps and power gaps are very different things. A skill gap is when someone outplays you, a power gap is when someone outbuilds you. ESO is a game where 2 players can have full sets of max level gear, but one of those players can have more health, damage, healing, and sustain than the other, all at the same time. The game just isn't well balanced and a lot of times there's no trade offs between builds.

Now you might say that the outbuilt person should just switch into better gear, but ESO builds have so many moving parts and so many options (many being horrible) that it's not something that is easily learned or understood. There's Youtube and build guide websites, but a lot of those have outdated information or bad builds. If someone is needing to consult a build guide, they may very well not know the difference between good advice and bad advice. So the power gap can persist.

A common complaint I see from players regarding ESO PvP is " a lot of players take no damage yet they can one shot me." People won't stay in environments like that. It wasn't always this bad, but now that builds are basically infinitely customizable, there's many ways for someone to fall behind.

Something like a ball group is a great example of a power gap. They coordinate sets to have 1000+ more weapon damage than usual and way more critical resist than others. On top of that they usually run 40k health and have many different instances of heal over times on them. That doesn't have much to do with skill. They literally have like double the stats of some regular players just because they wore the right things. There's not many tools to deal with health and heal stacking, so they also won't have to worry much about damage from other players.

licenturion · July 31

Elvenheart wrote: »

ESO has one form of PvP that’s consistently overlooked, and that’s these forums. Most of the posts I read nowadays are very player versus player oriented and demonstrate all sorts of skills used against one another to try to win the day in whatever discussion that’s happening in a given topic.

Well isn’t that the point of a discussion forum?

If everyone agrees about everything it is an echo chamber and they can better shut it down.

Although I think if you filter out all the topics and posts about PvP related things, only 10 percent of the posts would remain.